A split screen, on the right a photograph of a man wearing glasses, guest, Tom Watson and on the left a graphic of book cover 'Lose Weight 4 Life' by Tom Watson
Episode 196 – My weight loss and ADHD journey with Tom Watson

Our guest today has a truly inspirational, transformational weight loss story. About 5 years ago Tom Watson lost eight stone (that’s 112 pounds or 51 kg) and reversed his Type 2 diabetes by committing to a whole new way of life and we are very excited that decluttering played a part in his journey. Tom is a Declutter Hub Podcast super fan and this is one you’re not going to want to miss.
Tom served as MP for West Bromwich East from 2001 until 2019 and was Deputy Leader of the Labour Party from 2015 to 2019. He was a minister for Prime Minister Tony Blair and worked at the very heart of 10 Downing Street with Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
During his time in the Houses of Parliament, Tom built a reputation as a passionate campaigner. He challenged corrupt tabloid newspapers during the phone-hacking scandal and campaigned for reforms to the betting industry.
After changing his diet and getting fit, Tom has the global sugar industry in his sights and is committed to raising awareness about the dangers of excess and hidden sugars and improving public understanding of conditions like type 2 diabetes.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Lesley: Our guest today has a truly inspirational, transformational weight loss story. About five years ago, Tom Watson lost eight stone that's 112 pounds or 51 kilos and reversed his type two diabetes by committing to a whole new way of life. And we are so excited that decluttering played a part in his journey.

[00:00:20] Tom is a Declutter Hub podcast super fan, and this is one you're not going to want to miss.

[00:00:25] Now today's podcast is a little bit different. We have a truly inspirational guest. I'm very, very excited and I'd like to explain a little bit about how we came to be on our radar now, back in March, 2020 and March, 2020 meant a lot of things to a lot of people, but I was out with friends and it was the last night before the UK went into full lockdown, so that's why I remember it so well.

[00:00:45] So I'm out sitting there for, for dinner with friends. I know I shouldn't have been on my phone, but I was, and I.

[00:00:53] He said, do you know what, Lesley Ingrid, I love your podcast. And so it really my interest because. It was a man. Does that sound really bad that it's a man? But you know, men are not that common in our world. Sadly, they are, but they don't always go public. So I noticed it started to look at his profile and realized that he was a public figure.

[00:01:12] And so it kind of went into my radar. Two years went by and then about. Kind of six months ago, we had a podcast review by this same person, Tom Watson, and I was like, he really is a super fan. I need to get hold of him and get him to come on our podcast. And so here he is. So welcome, Tom. 

[00:01:31] Tom: Hi you Lesley.

[00:01:32] Thanks for the opener. That's very kind of you. 

[00:01:36] Lesley: No, you're welcome. I was just like Googling you, you know, kind of stalking you basically, while I was out for dinner. I'm like, oh, this is a guy. Tell us a little bit about your background, Tom. Put a little bit of context so you're not just a man, well, you are kind of just a man, but you have things, you've got a, you've got a great career.

[00:01:50] Tell us a little bit about that. 

[00:01:52] Tom: I, I guess really I'm, I'm most known publicly. I'm a recovering politician. I was an MP in the UK Parliament for 20 years. I was the deputy leader of the Labor Party for four or five years of that. That was the opposition party. Um, but during that time, and since then, I've published three bestselling books, made some television, including rowing the Length of Britain in a rowing boat, which was fun.

[00:02:19] Um, and. I, one of my books is about a health journey I went on where I lost a lot of weight, eight stones in weight, and reversed type two diabetes, which for me was a life-changing experience and probably set a train of things in motion that meant that I left politics and had a quieter, calmer, more restful, satisfying, energetic life in my mid fifties.

[00:02:46] Lesley: That's a great synopsis. That's fantastic. I think it was that transformational weight loss that really was interesting to me because right back in the day when I started with the Clutter Ferry or my, my one-to-one professional organising business, one of the very first things that I wrote was the sort of the comparisons between weight loss.

[00:03:05] And clutter because it's, it's the same. So the emotions that you feel are very, very similar. And that's a lot of what we want to talk about today, the comparison between the two and how they, you know, how they are completely similar. So I'd love you to talk a little bit about that when I read your first book.

[00:03:21] So your first book that you spoke about, there was called Downsizing Fantastic book, all about your own personal journey with, with. Weight loss and health mainly, you know, the health is a big part. Yes, you lost the weight, which is obviously very, an important part of that, but it's really the reversing of the diabetes and this new kind of sense of having a healthy lifestyle and a, a kind of simpler lifestyle at the end.

[00:03:42] You, after that, and so. There are so many emotions that are similar with weight loss, and that's what I want to talk about today. Just read your other book, which we'll talk about later as well, which is another one, which is also fantastic. But I think let's talk about some of those key emotions. And one of the things that really stuck out to me, um, was shame.

[00:04:02] You talked a lot about shame when you were, um, overweight. So talk about that and how do you think that relates to decluttering? 

[00:04:10] Tom: For me, I mean, there's lots of complications to do with decluttering and weight loss, and I'm still working some of it out. But the shame element for me, um, when I wrote the book, I thought I need to.

[00:04:23] Really highlights some of the really humiliating moments of my sort of journey to put the weight on in, in a funny sort of way, it's an every man's story. I started piling pounds on in my twenties and every so often would join a gym and it would last a week and I'd, you know, fail on another fad diet. Um, to the point where in my.

[00:04:46] 22 stones, high blood pressure type two diabetes, and you, you know, in quite a bad physical condition. And there's plenty of warning signs along the way that you immediately deny, but the moments of shame are really deep. And the two for me, I remember once I was a defense minister and on my first day of reporting to the Ministry of Defense, there's obviously a lot of security and they've kind of got those tube security things where you walk in one side and the door closes and then it opens up and you're in the building.

[00:05:17] Well, I got in the tube and set all the alarms off 'cause I'd, I'd triggered the maximum weight limit. And I think they thought two people were smuggling that were being smuggled into this top security building, which caused me great humiliation, as you can imagine. And then the other one for me is just sort of this idea of unconscious eating where I'm sitting in a cafe in, in Manchester.

[00:05:39] And my friend comes in to meet me a bit late and I'd got the sort of fork in my hand and I was leaning onto the next table, eating some leftover cake that previous customer had left. And I, I had no comprehension of doing that. And those little moments, They're even more shameful when you're healthy. You look back and think, how did I get into a position where I did things like that?

[00:06:02] Or I allowed myself to be in a position where that happened. And then there's sort of, you know, there's always a premier league of shame. I always remember, you know, being on the front bench in the House of Commons when, um, the then health secretary and national Obesity strategy, and I was sort of trying to work my way as to the furthest out of the bench because all the mps opposite were sort of pointing at.

[00:06:26] And all little things like that sort of add up to make it, you know, it's sometimes quite overpowering emotions, really, which, um, which aren't good when you are in your middle years. 

[00:06:37] Lesley: And I think when you, when you do feel that shame, of course you feel judged. So did you feel, you talked about little things along the way, little kind of warning signs, things that people were saying.

[00:06:48] Do you felt that you just chose to ignore those and were a little bit in denial or? 

[00:06:53] I 

[00:06:53] Tom: was definitely in denial. Even when I had a diagnosis of type two diabetes, I, it was very shaming to, to get the diagnosis. I didn't tell anyone about it for quite a while, and I wouldn't allow myself to think very deeply about what I had to do to put it right.

[00:07:10] And, and that denial, I think is, you know, 'cause you, you need to almost deconstruct what's gone on at a very elemental level before you can get well again. Uh, and that, that's the same with decluttering. I'm sure we'll get onto that, but where, for me it was like a tiny little whisper. In, in my inner thoughts, um, that that turned into a really loud shout over a number of years.

[00:07:32] And, you know, the voice said, you're going to die if you don't sort this out. And you know, I've got two kids. Um, I love them very much. And, and in the end, my health was so bad that I thought, okay, I've actually got a. You know, to completely prioritize getting healthy. Um, but it took me many, many years to get there and, you know, a number of years from diagnosis to actually dealing with it.

[00:07:58] Um, you know, 'cause you have to commit it. You have to really commit at a fundamental level. I. 

[00:08:03] Lesley: Yeah. I think the nice thing for us actually as declutters, whether that's when we're working one-to-one with people or whether we're working with people in our sort of decluttered communities, is that we tend to hit people at that rock bottom level.

[00:08:15] And I think people have to have to hit that sometimes to be able to go on that upwards trajectory from there. And so, It's important to understand what's gone before. But the nice thing for us is people are committed 'cause it's like, enough is enough. I have to do something about this. And sometimes that can take a little while to get off the starting blocks.

[00:08:34] It's not always like, okay, I'm going to do this today, and off we go. It takes a while to gather momentum and to get on that upwards trajectory that's going to continue to go up. Of course it does. You do have to hit that rock bottom sometimes for the, the warning, 'cause those signs are there and they're there with decluttering as well.

[00:08:50] You know, people, you stop letting people in your house or you can't sort of make excuses or, you know, people are constantly saying to you things about shopping, but you're like, oh, you know, and trying to make light of it. And so it, it's very similar. I mean, perhaps the shame, the shame is perhaps a little, you can be a bit more secret if it's clutter in your house.

[00:09:08] But you know, if, if it is weight, It's there for all to see. But the diabetes is a really interesting one 'cause that's where, you know, people judge you for having diabetes and almost think that it's something that you bring on yourself. I don't think that, obviously, but a lot of people do. And that's the thing, people where you brought that on yourself by overeating or whatever, don't they?

[00:09:28] Is that something that you felt? 

[00:09:31] Tom: Yeah. In a, in, well I, you know, in a sense I did bring it on myself. Um, 'cause I, I, I'd not addressed underlying issues with nutrition and different kinds of movement. Um, although I don't want this to be, I. All about the individual. I've sort of had RAs with big TV presenters like PS Morgan, about this.

[00:09:51] Who says it? Surely It's down to personal discipline and you just have to sort of commit and, and how I describe it, it, it's like the system is stacked against people. You know, you go into a supermarket, there's marketing campaigns, there's glossy packaging, there's two for one office, there's hidden ingredients in food, there's massive advertising.

[00:10:09] There's, you know, kids start off at school with really sort of heavily branded sugary products. So it. Like you, you, you are almost set up to fail on these health journeys, and it's only when you kind of get beyond all of that, you work all that out and you realize, If you're going to do this right, you're never going to eat a chocolate hobnob ever again.

[00:10:30] Um, it's at that kind of primitive, elemental level that you have to go. And, and of course that's really hard for people to do, isn't it? 'cause you know, you've got all these temptations all around you all the time. 

[00:10:42] Lesley: You know what? You're absolutely right. And, and it's all about shifting these emotions and habits that we've had for years, and I'm very, very aware of them.

[00:10:48] But I, I went out for dinner with friends on, um, Saturday night. The same friends actually that I was out with before lockdown, and we went to, we're like, oh, let's go somewhere different. And we went to an all you can eat. Fondue cheese fondue, which sounded quite nice and all you can drink. And there's something about that where you've prepaid for something, which means that you will overindulge in a way that you wouldn't ordinarily, ordinarily would stop, but you want to get your money's worth.

[00:11:13] And these are hard habits to break. And you know, I came away on Sunday and thought, why did I do that? Why did I then, Ask for more, ask for more wine when I wouldn't have done that. Ordinarily on a night out, there's something psychological because these big marketing brains are there tempting you, as you say, along the way.

[00:11:31] Whether it's food, whether it's shopping, whether it's two for ones, whether it's buy two things, you can get something free. Exactly the same principles. 

[00:11:40] Tom: Yeah, when I looked at the science of it, I mean there is actually, nutritional science is, um, are arguably the most over influenced by private funding of any of the sort of sciences.

[00:11:52] And they've got this thing called the bliss spot where, where they're, they're literally wire are your head. To look at the brain and work out the balance between fat, sugar, and salt. That lights your brain up. And the goal is to sort of sal, get your mouth, salivated, get, get a sweet sensation. That's so great that you have to have it again.

[00:12:12] But the product has to not fill you up so that you want more. Um, so when I say set up to fail, I mean. Almost at a really deep scientific level, you've been set up to fail. Um, and it's cruel really, isn't it? When, when you, when you actually look at it, and I thought, yeah, all those, you know, can anyone ever eat one Pringle?

[00:12:32] Of course they can't. They can only eat the whole tube and they're made like that. They're made to make you want more, but they don't fill you up. And that's pretty fundamental. And I think that's why people fund it so hard. 

[00:12:44] Lesley: Yeah. I mean, years ago in my own ups and downs with, uh, weight loss, I remember going to like a sort of slimming worlds meeting and I was coming, but I'm just, I'm just kind of an emotional eater.

[00:12:55] I eat when I'm happy, I eat, when I'm sad, I eat when I, you know, and all that. They're like, everyone that's sitting here is an emotional eat that I'm like, Oh yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's like the light goes on. It's like, oh yeah, that's, that's why we're sat here. So there undoubtedly are people that can eat one Pringle, but we are not them.

[00:13:11] And we, you know, the p the people with the weight loss problems are, are not there. Um, so we've talked a little bit about Shane. Um, I want to talk a little bit about control as well. Did you feel like you needed to be in control of your weight loss journey? 

[00:13:27] Tom: Yeah. Um, I mean, actually what I'd never properly, even though I, you know, I mean I've literally tried every diet in the world from the Cabbage Soup Diet to Weight Watchers online to whatever that Red and Green Day was.

[00:13:41] Yeah, I've done the lot. Um, and it was only when I. Realize this is actually about forming good behaviors and habits. I, I actually read a book on Aristotle by pro Professor Edith Hall, and I kind of realized Aristotle was the first self-help guru. Um, and, and he created this idea of good habits. And I, I realized, you know, I, I, I mentioned this in the book.

[00:14:05] I, I actually properly planned for this health journey to the point where, I cleared all the cupboards out. You'll be proud of me as well, Lesley. I, I didn't just clear everything out. I washed the cupboards. I laid new paper down. I put the things in in the right order, which was actually the beginnings of an understanding that there was a sort of declutter element that actually helped me on the journey a little bit as well.

[00:14:29] And I'm sure we've discussed this later on. Um, but I couldn't have anything at the back of a cupboard that was vaguely sugary. Um,

[00:14:41] It's processed carbohydrates or sugar. I, my hunger was sort of alarmed again, and I, you know, I would've a 12 h hour need for more sugar if I, even if I just tasted a little bit. So I had to sort of deconstruct where I was failing really deeply, and, and I realized it started with the fridge and the cupboards and so I just had to think about what I put in the cupboard.

[00:15:04] And you know, you talk about comfort eating, it's only years later that I realized, of course my emotions drove my eating as well as what I thought was sugar addiction. Um, and even now, you know, if I've had a row or sort, I've had a bad day. You know, I feel the need to eat something. But now I'll eat a piece of Lean Turkey 'cause it's always in the fridge 'cause I've organised the shopping list in the way and alright.

[00:15:26] You know, I probably don't need the Turkey, but it's definitely better than. You know, three packets of crisps. 

[00:15:32] Lesley: Yeah. And know, and I think that it is important to, to take things back to first principles. And you know, with decluttering, you've listened to all of our podcasts pretty much Tom, so you know that we're all about the emotions.

[00:15:43] And so people focus on the stuff. People focus on the weight loss, I guess, in your, in your instance. And actually you need to take it right back and say, What's the why? Why am I doing this? Why am I so emotional? What is it that's driving my behavior and sabotaging what I want for my future life? And how can I fit this into my current life?

[00:16:02] And as I say, it takes time for some people. Now, for you it was a, you know, was it an immediate. Sort of, I've got to reset everything and start from scratch and I can't possibly sort of veer off the pathway. 

[00:16:15] Tom: It, there was definitely a very big fear of failure 'cause it, it felt like the last roll of the dice for me.

[00:16:20] If I'd really committed to this and I'd failed. You know, what am I going to do? And you know, by the time I got to actually commit in, I'd read, so, you know, it started with Michael Mo, one of Michael Mosley's books. I read it on a Kindle being a little bit obsessive. I read all the, I then used the footnotes on the Kindle to read the scientific papers, and I realized it was actually a.

[00:16:41] A sort of nutritional program that I'd not tried where recent research had suggested it could really help people with my condition, high blood pressure and, and problems dealing with blood sugars. And so I'd vested a lot of reading time into it and I realized what I needed to do was find time in my very busy life.

[00:17:04] Actually, the first thing I realized was what I actually needed to do was find time for, for me to do it, and, and that required negotiation. I had a staff of 17 people, all of which you, you know, you could imagine what it was like, sort of frontline politics in a chaotic period in political history. Um, you know, one of the things I needed to do was sort my diary so I can actually do a weekly shop and I could prepare real food, not microwave food.

[00:17:31] Um, and so just finding time at the start and the end of the day to cook and do all of that became quite hard and in the end that it caused quite a lot of tension with my team when I was wedging that. Space into my weekly diary, but of course, three months later, the weight's off. I'm a happier person to work with.

[00:17:52] I'm actually way more productive. Um, you, you know, arguably a much more sort of reasonable colleague to spend time with and my team were really proud of me. So it, it worked out, but it worked well. Yeah, you have to really, you know, you have to really work out where, where you're going to fall. And for me it was, you know, the first thing was time.

[00:18:13] Yeah. And when I found the time, I realized I needed to make routines, I realized I, you, you know, no day is the same in politics. You know, you kind of get your dopamine high on the chaos and the tension and the pressure and you know, the variation in your day. I, I, I couldn't do that. What I needed was simple daily rules.

[00:18:32] Um, and this is where Aristotle helped me with laying down habits. So, you know, my morning routine. I became absolutely central to what I did. You know, trainers by the back door. Last thing before I went to bed at night, you know, get up, go to the bathroom, do my daily weigh in. To brew the coffee and then get out to get my daily steps before the day started.

[00:18:55] Um, that's when I started listening to the podcast, by the way. I'd listened to a lot of podcasts, um, yeah, and that's where I started to understand the parallels between organising your personal space and organising your personal health. Were, were very, very similar. You, you needed, Routines and approaches, and you needed to break things down into really small little bits of work and processes in order to succeed over time, and I found that very rewarding as well.

[00:19:24] Lesley: I think it's so interesting 'cause everything, it's like music to my ears, Tom, really, because honestly, everything that you're talking about in your journey is exactly the same as everything that we teach. But I do have one thing that I want to, to talk to you about, which is you are very well read at your latest book.

[00:19:38] You talk about a lot of the. Research that you have done, the different type of diets that are out there, why they work, why they do different things. You don't tell people what to do, but you explain all the different options. So what we find quite often in the decluttering world is obviously there's a lot of information out there about decluttering.

[00:19:56] And some of them, even though at their core they are very similar, there are more than one way to skin a cat, let's call it that way. And so did you find some of that information that's out there? Useful or do, is that your mind? You like all of the information, make your own judgment on that? Or did you find because they were different and conflicting because they are in the diet world, it is quite conflicting information sometimes 

[00:20:20] Tom: or not.

[00:20:21] Yeah, the diet world is nearly world walls between nutritionists over. Yeah. You find yourself, you get sometimes it, the language gets very violent when people fundamentally disagreeing. Um, I mean, in the end I tried, in the end I define public. Public current government guidelines on what you put in yourself.

[00:20:38] I, I've taken fewer carbohydrates than the government recommend, but I thought to myself, what have I got to lose? I'm 22 stomach type two diabetes. You know, if you don't sort it out. And it worked for me, but I needed to read my way through it to work out. There was a rational basis and there's some research there.

[00:20:56] And in the end, I guess I'm quite lucky that I. You know, I, I've always been able to sort of do that kind of thing. I found myself getting angry on behalf of other people though, because essentially what I had to do was do my own signposting and work my own route out. And if you are doing shift work on minimum wage, I did a family of three together and, you know, all the usual pressures of, without the luxuries of a team to support you, like I had you, you know, it's 10 times harder.

[00:21:23] And it was flipping hard for me. You know, I mean, I'm not, I'm making it sound easy, but it really, really wasn't in the early months. It was quite painful and debilitating at times. But once you get there, I think once you can work out where you fail and be honest with yourself, I. You're just a little bit kinder than yourself, and then you still fail and you make those mistakes, but you can, it, it's like you don't give up, you just, you work away round it.

[00:21:49] Um, and that's what helped for me. And, and that's why with the new book, lose Weight for Life, which is a terrible rod for, for the back of a 55 year old bloke that, but you know, I can't believe I published a book called Lose Weight for Life. So you're 

[00:22:02] Lesley: not going backwards, are you in this? Uh, 

[00:22:05] Tom: I mean very humiliated if I do, but I mean, the point is, in the first book, I thought I needed to be very candid about all my failures.

[00:22:13] But I didn't want to lecture people. I just wanted to say what worked for me. I. But then I got so many letters and emails saying, you know, well, how did you do? How did, what did you actually do to clean the cupboards out? And, you know, what was your morning routine and what do you put in your gratitude journal that makes you, you know, reward yourself?

[00:22:30] Um, this is more of a how to, it's more of a blueprint. But you still, you know, just how to write your own blueprint, not copy my blueprint. Um, and that's, you know, but in the end, that's what gets you through. You, you, you know, if you, if you can identify the failure and work out a way that you can reset, you know, be kind on yourself when things go wrong.

[00:22:52] You know, I'm trying to run 50 miles this month to raise some money for the Samaritan, and then I went and had flu for a week and I couldn't run for 10 days. Yeah. You know, five years ago I'd have just given up. Um, now I've just thought, okay, well it's not your fault. You've had 10 days taken out. You look running life.

[00:23:08] Just add 10 days on at the end. Yeah. You know, everyone that's sponsored is going to understand you've had flu. Yeah. It's slightly different way, a slightly more positive outlook about how you deal with failure. And I think. 

[00:23:22] Lesley: I know it is, it is all about being kind to yourself. You know, rule number one of decluttering is to understand that life throws curve balls your way and that you're not always going to be able to stay on the wagon and things like that.

[00:23:33] So that's super important and I'm, I'm interested in your daily routines as well. So you talk about your. They're almost like what we would consider to be non-negotiables in terms of a morning reset, uh, a tied in. So we're, you know, so they were your non-negotiables and you planned for those. So planning was a big part of it, and it's a big part of what we teach and we're just straight out of a challenge actually a few weeks ago.

[00:23:55] And the light bulbs that go on when you say to somebody, you can't just suddenly wake up one day and go, I'm going to dec to my living room today. Not as simple as that. There's a lot that has to come before that to understand what's going to set you back beforehand, how to plan, how to prepare what you need, what you, you need to set yourself up for this emotionally, physically, practically.

[00:24:15] And so just doing all of that preparation work is so critical to people's success, but yet people are like, well, I just thought it was as simple as. I just need to declutter my living room and get on with it. But there's so much to it. It's quite deep, you know what I mean? Because this is in the same way as weight loss.

[00:24:31] Decluttering is something that's plagued many people for years, if not decades, and so it, it needs more work to get to that point where you're like, okay, now I'm ready. I mean, you do need to get there, and you do need to take action. Of course you do, but you need to do that careful plan and preparation that was critical for you then.

[00:24:48] Tom: You know, the decluttering stuff came after my health journey and, and when the lines start to blur. Wh when I look at my life over the last 40, 40 years of adult life, when I left home, I had no, I've never had order. Right? I've had piles of books everywhere. I've not had a closed strategy. You know, there's, there was no regularity of when you do the cleaning.

[00:25:12] And there's reasons for that, I'm sure we'll go into, but actually, I. The same principles apply. Like you, you know, you want your house clean to ID and functional, you know, work out where the failures are, work out your little routines and, and you and Ingrid, I can't tell you the little tips you've given me, rather the little building blocks of a strategy.

[00:25:31] I'm not, I'm not even going to claim I've got strategy 'cause I'm not that good on the good. Yeah. Tiny little things you gave me. Right. I. Ah, paper management stuff. You could imagine the life. I'm still getting loads of correspondence. You tell me don't, don't keep the envelopes. Right. So I, I reckon I've probably been a ton of envelopes since listening to the first podcast that gave me an envelope management strategy.

[00:25:57] It's a tiny more thing, but it's a massive deal in Yeah, you're trying to manage lots of things. And then the other thing you've given me, Is how to deal with all your Christmas decorations. Nice. Like, you know, I'm the sort of guy who still has the Christmas tree up in March. Right? But I don't anymore.

[00:26:19] I've got a little special, I've got a special bag, and I even do the, the lights get them wrapped around so they're not. Untangling it. YouTube gave me that. You've probably given me five hours back of Christmas. Decoration management. Right. And this is all about finding little wraparounds with 

[00:26:36] Lesley: Yeah, exactly.

[00:26:38] You know, and for some people it's those little it, everyone works in a different way and there's different things. So some people like to take it back to bases and go, you know, we have a roadmap in our membership, and take it right back to basics. If. Living in complete chaos then, and some people, it's just taking little bits of snippets.

[00:26:52] That's what's, that's what the podcast is great at, little snippets of information and it is always things that you've never thought of. And so quite often when we do a 10 Things podcast, it's things that people have never thought about before, but we've seen it a million times. Obviously in houses, they're, oh yeah, oh yeah, that's me.

[00:27:09] And the light bulbs go on. Yeah, I need to change that and so 

[00:27:12] on. 

[00:27:12] Tom: I'll tell the other thing. When I asked myself, Will I ever have a video cassette player that plays v h s tapes or even DVDs ever again? And the answer was a, a resounding no. That cleared a whole shelf in a back room that would never, ever have been used again to the charity shop.

[00:27:29] 'cause some people still use it. You know, just those little elements, you just slightly deeper questions that you ask yourself when you're sort these things out and you really help on that. You know, you are the only two. That podcast gave me all these. Brilliant. 

[00:27:45] Lesley: So we're going to go to a break. Tom, you've already alluded to the fact that you, um, lived your life in chaos, in your words, and so we're going to, after the break, we're going to delve a little bit deeper into why that might be.

[00:27:58] 

[00:27:58] Okay, Tom, so we talked a little bit about your weight loss journey. Oh, quite a lot about your weight loss journey before the break, and you alluded to the fact that you felt that you would live your early life in chaos.

[00:28:10] Yeah. You'd had no order. And then about 18 months ago you had another little curve ball thrown your way. So do you want to talk a little bit about that? 

[00:28:19] Tom: Yeah. Um, it basically 18 months ago, I had a formal diagnosis of A D H D, um, attention deficit. Hyperactivity disorder, um, which was more of a confirmation of something I'd kind of knew I probably had, or at least had thought I had for about a decade or maybe a bit longer.

[00:28:44] But to formally find out that I have a neurological condition, um, that has made some things harder for me to do in life. Um, had some quite dramatic impacts, but to actually get to that diagnosis, it was actually the health journey that helped me get there because when, when I changed my nutrition and got healthy, one of the benefits I didn't realize would happen was it, I felt like I'd got a greater clarity of thinking.

[00:29:12] I've described it as like a brain fog lifting from my head, almost like my IQ went up and I just found a little bit more bandwidth to. To think a little bit more deeply about sequencing organisational tasks. Um, and so I do think there's a link between nutrition and A D H D. Um, and in the end, having read a piece by Adrian Charles in The Guardian, where he talked about how he got a diagnosis of A D H D, I literally thought, well, I could have written this op-ed, and now's the time to sort that out.

[00:29:45] And, um, It started yet another journey in trying to understand myself and some of the mistakes I've made in life and how I. Obviously two of the hardest things for people with a D H D to do are manage their time because there's a thing called time blindness where small tasks are, you overestimate how long it takes to do small tasks and you underestimate how long it takes to do big tasks.

[00:30:14] And also organisation is obviously not great if you're not focused on it. Um, and so anything to do with. Organising clothes, possessions, cleaning rotors, tidying a house, uh, have, has always been profoundly challenging for me. 

[00:30:32] Lesley: So you talked about the fact that you feel that the signs were there. So how do you feel that the signs were there for the previous 10 years, and what was it that suddenly made you think, you know?

[00:30:42] Oh, oh. So it was the, it was the article that you read, but what did you think prior to that then? 

[00:30:48] Tom: I've got friends with a D H D who, and the weird thing is once you get a diagnosis, you could kind of spot traits in other people. Uh, but it's a little bit rude to go to people and say, by the way, I think you've got a D H D.

[00:31:01] And so over the years, you know, friends had given gentle words. I, I remember I've got a very close friend whose daughter had got a diagnosis and um, there's a. A preliminary test you do that talks about how you deal with particular tasks. And, um, he, he said, fill out these boxes and see how you do on this test.

[00:31:22] And I got halfway through and couldn't finish it 'cause I, I was distracted. Um, but it, even doing that, it was pretty clear. I got a D H D and it was quite funny at the time, but I never did anything about it. And actually there's a lot of people who, you know now in adulthood now, the condition is more understood.

[00:31:43] So is quite a big thing. Um, and getting formally diagnosed, 'cause you, you know, you're admitting that your brain is wired in a different way to most people's. You're, you, you are, you are not neurotypical. Um, and. But once you realize it's, you know, things you've done are not necessarily your fault. You've just got difficulty doing certain tasks that other people find easy, you end up with a lot of, you know, you look back on events in life and think, you know, could I have done things differently had I known, I, you know, got techniques for dealing with this condition and for me, You know, it became a really deep sort of sense of who I was.

[00:32:23] It was this idea that I was the, I always used to say that I'm the hardest working laziest person I know. Um, because I would, I was always in chaos. There was, you know, surrounded by, Paper and books and you know, projects that were not quite complete, uh, or ongoing and multiple, you know, I always had four books by the side of the bed 'cause I could never decide which chapter I was going to read before sleep.

[00:32:51] Um, and. You know, you know, it led to this sense that I, I never actually finished anything, which of course is one of the things that A D H D can do. Um, and what I've realized, of course, looking back, What I can do is build teams and I was in a fortunate position that I had jobs where I was asked to assemble teams and I'd almost unconsciously always tried to pair myself up with someone who was very, very good at completing tasks and finishing tasks.

[00:33:21] Um, and built very strong working relationship with teams of people who were very different to me. And so you realize that in life, you know, you, if you can work out ways to deal with these problems, you, you, you kind of put an external scaffolding around yourself, um, for people who can support your deficiencies.

[00:33:38] Um, but even when you get the diagnosis, it's, you know, it's kind of, for me it was slightly overwhelming and I've not really prepared myself for that. There were lots of, um, you know, childhood memories. I always remember that. It still comes back to me, this memory, so it must been quite traumatic at the time.

[00:33:55] I, I used to share a locker with Steven Walton when I was nine years old. He is my best friend from school and his half the locker was always very tidy. Uh, and mine was always like a total mess, you know, PE kit. I've not taken over for my mom to wash and all that kind of stuff. And, um, For the second time in a month, I lost my maths book.

[00:34:15] And I remember Mrs. Green shouting at me and me being so scared and embarrassed that, you know, why do I keep losing these books that I, I, I didn't want to go to school that day, you know? And that I was really emotionally challenged by, it's only a tiny little thing, but of course that was, you know, as I was entering adolescence, that's when a D H D sort of manifests itself.

[00:34:36] It was pretty obvious back then, and I would probably have been, you know, identified as someone who perhaps should have had a test in childhood, um, where if the condition was known more about in the late seventies, early eighties. Um, so you kind of wonder, you know, what, how would my life have unfolded had I had a diagnosis earlier?

[00:34:56] Lesley: Yeah. 'cause it is all about strategies, I guess. Uh, masking is a big thing, isn't it, with a D H D as well. And I know a lot of women my age are getting late diagnoses of a D h ADHD at the moment. And Sarah, because, who's a good friend of hers, who's, you know, she's done a couple of podcasts from the Declutter hub.

[00:35:12] She's done something within our membership as well. She talks about 'cause. I mean, it's no secret that when Ingrid and I talk on the podcast, you know, she's the kind of one that keeps us on task and I'm the one that's very fairy got flying off to the next thing. And so, you know, she said a very interesting thing.

[00:35:27] 'cause sometimes I go, oh, maybe, do you know what I mean? And then, but she's like, But really it's a thing if it's affecting your life, you know, is it affecting your life in anxiety or not turning up to things or relationships or anything like that. And the truth of that is it's not. So do I have that kind of brain that flips off to other things that's quite sort of moving on?

[00:35:49] Yes, I do. Is that a D H D? I doubt it very much because it does not affect my life. It affects Ingrid a lot. She's, she affects Ingrid's life and she's like, please don't do that, Lesley. Um, but I think that's really interesting to understand that because a lot of the, you know, when people are talking about A D H D, a lot of people, oh, well I do that.

[00:36:07] Oh, I go into a room and I forget what I went in for. Oh, I do that and I'm late for things and I do, you know what I mean? And it's, it's when it becomes a little bit more, Catastrophic, but a bit more impactful then that that's where the signs are. Not that I'm an A D H D specialist of course, but A D H ADHD is a big part of the world of decluttering, do you know what I mean?

[00:36:26] And becoming more prevalent as more and more people are getting these diagnoses. And it's important for people to have a reason and then to build those strategies. And so, you know, it needs to be, Part of the solution, in my opinion. Um, I think it's like, okay, well I know that now, so what kind of strategy can I build to try and do that in a different way?

[00:36:46] And so, What kind of strategies have you started to build then, Tom? I mean, obviously you start, the organisational side of things started as part of your weight loss journey and now you've had your A D H D diagnosis. You want to move into kind of home organisation and strategies for tidying and things like that.

[00:37:04] So what sort of things have you done? 

[00:37:06] Tom: Well, I, I've got to say I couldn't write a book on home organisation yet, so I'm, I. I'm nowhere near as far down the journey of understanding that, which is why I love your podcast so much because I learned from you. But the techniques that I use to start my journey in house are the same in this.

[00:37:23] So the first is how do I manage my time? Um, and actually when I left politics, my scheduling collapsed and I realized what I needed to do was just have a little bit of help scheduling my professional and private life. Uh, you, you know, of course everything collapsed and you're doing Zoom calls and you're trying to fit everything in.

[00:37:43] Um, what I do in my daily schedule, this is where I think your listeners might begin to think, I, I'm a little bit cranky and eccentric. Um, now that I know I've got a D H D and that, that means that doing repetitive sometimes. What some people would say boring tasks are harder to motivate yourself to do. I break the day and I have these little bite-sized chunks of 15 minutes that I call boring time, and I, I play this little game with myself where I say, it doesn't matter what you do in that 15 minutes, but you've got to be doing something to get in the house in better shape.

[00:38:18] So, you know, literally I could do two minutes of washing up and only do half the washing. But I've done some of it, and then I'll take the towels up and put them in the airing cupboards, and then I'll throw all my envelopes away from the day's post. Well done. It's not quite as organised, you know it. It's probably not the max best use of my time, but it gets two or three tasks done that I wouldn't ordinarily do naturally unless I specifically organised my day and committed to doing that little bit of time.

[00:38:52] The other thing I realized is, of course my circumstances changed when I left Parliament. So most of my week was in a one bedroom flat on my own in London. And I realized that, you know, I had order in the flat I was in. 'cause I wasn't sharing the space with anyone, it was just me. And so everything had a place.

[00:39:11] And when I left politics, um, with my new partner in her kit, and what you realize is. There's a massive negotiation over use of space, over prioritizing domestic tasks, shared work, you know, possessions that have different values to different people in the house. And that's the bit I haven't worked out yet.

[00:39:32] And that, that's still like a negotiation and a, you know, reaching and understanding and um, you know, that's why I think I'm going to be listening to the podcast for another three years. 'cause that's 

[00:39:41] Lesley: going to take, so, yeah, exactly. So you obviously love a reset time and we love a reset here at the Declutter Hub and actually you call it a reset in your latest book that I read devoured actually last weekend.

[00:39:56] So talk a little bit about the book or any books. You have a number of books, don't you? 

[00:40:00] Tom: Well, that's kind of you to say, Lesley. My new book is called Lose Weight for Life. Uh, and it comes on the back of my first health and uh, wellbeing book called downsizing, which, um, surprised me the most that it was actually.

[00:40:15] Times bestseller because, um, it talked about the journey I went on, uh, um, to reverse type two diabetes and lose eight stone. But the publishers were, you know, had a lot of emails and letters and I, when I used to get, I've had hundreds of emails and letters from people who say, I read your book, you know, I'm in the same place I was in denial about my house.

[00:40:38] Um, but how did you actually do it? How did you clean out your cupboards? What did you put in your fridge? What did you write in your gratitude journal? Uh, and so there was a sort of sense that I needed to. Yeah, I told my story about how I did it. I didn't want to preach to people, but the new book, lose Weight for Life is really a blueprint for how I did it.

[00:41:00] And it gives people sort of tips and tricks for reassessing how you can go on your own health journey. And I, I hope people find it of use. And also there's little things in it. There's a few recipes. Piece at the back that really helped me when I was changing my nutrition to take sugar out of my diet and introduce more healthy nutrient dense food.

[00:41:19] So there's things like making a thing called cauliflower rice, which sounds really weird. Um, but it replaces rice and it's really great and uh, but how you do that is a little tricky 'cause people aren't used to doing that very often. Perfect. 

[00:41:34] Lesley: So where can people find the book, Tom? 

[00:41:37] Tom: It's in all good bookshops.

[00:41:38] Uh, the publishers tell me that it's also going to be stock in Sainsbury, which, so if you're doing your weekly shop, you can um, you can buy the book on the bookshelves in Sainsburys and you can get it in Waterstones and Amazons and all the other bookshops 

[00:41:51] Lesley: as well. And will it be, 'cause obviously we've got a global audience, will it be available outside of the UK as well?

[00:41:55] It will 

[00:41:56] Tom: be, I'm not quite sure if it's launched, um, if, if there's a slight delay in that, but yes, it's, um, it's a global, um, it's, it's globally available, so, um, and if, if anyone lives in a country where they can't find it, find me on the internet and email me and I'll make sure you get a copy. 

[00:42:12] Lesley: Oh, fantastic.

[00:42:13] Well, I absolutely loved it, everybody. I thought it was fantastic. I couldn't put it down. So I'm the downsizing one, which is the first book as well. So downsizing and Lose Weight for Life. Two fantastic books by Tom. Thanks, Lesley. I'm absolutely loving this interview, Tom, because I just feel like you just, everything that you're saying is going to resonate so much, whether it's your a h.

[00:42:33] D um, strategies that you started to build, whether it's, whether it's the organisation that started that weight loss journey, the parallels between decluttering, organising and weight loss, uh, the transformation that you've undergone, the fact that your wellbeing is so much better, the fact that you're moving forward.

[00:42:50] It's all such amazingly positive stuff. Now, I know when we chatted about the talk about the podcast, you were like, oh, I've got, I want to talk about this and I want to talk about that, and I want to talk about this. And I was like, geez, that's like a two old podcast. And, um, there's so many things you've just talked about moving in with your partner and her children.

[00:43:08] I think that's a whole life changing experience for you. I know you've got some questions and so what I'd like to do if this is okay with you, is I would like to end this lovely podcast about your journey so far, and then we will go into another podcast, which we'll broadcast in a few weeks time, all about.

[00:43:25] Your ongoing journey from here? How does that sound? 

[00:43:28] Tom: I'd love that. I'd love that. 'cause I've got lots of questions I want to ask you, Lesley. 

[00:43:33] Lesley: I know this is the thing. So how do we do this? I feel like you know, you're an accomplished interviewer and interviewee, so why don't we turn the tables on the Declutter Hub podcast and you can ask me the questions.

[00:43:45] Okay. And I hope that I can answer that in the way that you've answered. Uh, 

[00:43:48] Tom: very, uh, I'd love if, if I told you that I'm completely renovating a new house, uh, an old, a very old house. And so it's like we start with an empty house from scratch. I want to build up routines from there. So I've got a million questions I want to ask you about those, so if you could help me do that, that would be fantastic.

[00:44:07] Lesley: Let's do it. It sounds fab and I'm, I'm excited to be interviewed. I'm excited, so I've loved it. Thank you so much, Tom, for your time today. Can't wait to come back in a few weeks time. So look out for, let's say, I'm going to say episode 203, you will be in our 200th plus podcast on, can you believe we've hit 200 podcasts?

[00:44:27] Is that 200 times you've listened to us? It's like, 

[00:44:31] Tom: but you've done, you've put so much work. I mean, you've, you've helped so many people, Lesley, and, but you know, you must be proud of what you do. 

[00:44:38] Lesley: Yeah, no, we are proud and we love the podcast. Yeah, sometimes we go completely off track. Today I've tried to stay on track and so, um, thank you so much for your time, Tom.

[00:44:46] Let's think about next week and what's coming next week. Next week we're going back to basics again, and we are talking about packing your suitcase for your holidays. And so if you are going away, you're going to need to know how to pack your suitcase. So do join us next week for some handy hints and tips.

[00:45:01] Thank you so much, Tom, and we'll see you in another few podcast time. 

[00:45:06] Tom: Thanks, Lesley.
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Episode 324 – How to repurpose rooms in your home

Episode 320 – What is clutter blindness and how to fix it?

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Nicky says:

14 July 2022 at 10:09 AM

What a wonderful episode of the podcast! Thank you for this. I think it's very brave of Tom to speak about these things, and I hadn't really made the connection between weight loss and decluttering, but as you say organisation is a big part of healthy eating and exercise. I can relate to so much of what Tom said about being disorganised, and not being able to manage time. It really helps to hear someone as successful as him talking about this – it makes me realise I'm not alone in this and there are ways to change your life at any stage (I am a similar age to Tom, so as he says, this sort of things wasn't really known about back in the time we were at school in the 70s and 80s). I look forward to the next podcast.

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1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  14 July 2022 at 3:54 PM
  
  Thank you for listening in Nicky and yes decluttering and weight loss have a connection for sure. This podcast has resonated with a lot of people and we're delighted Tom was so open on the podcast. We can't wait for his second instalment to come out in August, so keep listening in. Ingrid x
  
  Reply
Episode 196 – My weight loss and ADHD journey with Tom Watson

Episode 324 – How to repurpose rooms in your home

Episode 320 – What is clutter blindness and how to fix it?

Episode 319 – Katie Mortram from Good Housekeeping chats all things clutter

Episode 318 – What type of coat hangers are best?

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