Episode 419 – Why repairing is better than buying new with Martine Postma from Repair Cafe

Ingrid: Decluttering isn't only about donating, reusing, repurposing, or throwing items away. Repairing an item is right up our street, too. So many items in people's homes could work again with just a small repair instead of being replaced, saving money and keeping things out of landfill. In today's podcast, I'm going to be talking with Martine Postma, founder of Repair Cafe International Foundation.

There are thousands of Repair cafes across more than 50 countries run entirely by volunteers. Martine is going to share with us how she started Repair Cafe and how the repair movement has grown over the years

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid.

Lesley: And I am Lesley. Now, if you are here for the very first time today, or you've been listening in for ages, we want to say a huge thank you we have a little favour to ask.

Ingrid: If you like what you hear, be sure to hit that follow or subscribe button. Share us with your friends or leave us a review. It makes a huge difference to us.

hello and welcome, Martina. Thank you so much for being

Martine Postma: here. Thank you, Ingrid. Happy to be here

Ingrid: It's incredible. I, we are always thinking about podcast episodes that we can do and then topics that we think our listeners will be interested in, and I had a bit of a wow. we know about repair cafes, me and Lesley. We kinda suddenly were like, "We've never done a podcast about it." So I did some research, and then I was absolutely delighted, as you probably can tell in my voice, to find out that you are Dutch like me.

Martine Postma: I am. So I know. So when I reached out, I was like, "Hi, this is kind of an English email, but we could speak Dutch, but that would be a bit tricky for our listeners, right?"

yeah.

Ingrid: So thank you so much for taking the time. I've done some research, some digging, and I am so impressed, and I'm actually just weirdly a little bit proud that this whole Repair Cafe movement is from a Dutch person.

How cool is that?

Martine Postma: Yeah. What can I say? So what happened? Why... Because you started back in 2009.

Yeah, Tell me what happened, why, what made you think, "What are we doing here?" W- how this is all start? I would love to hear from you

back in 2009, I was a journalist, and I wrote about sustainability, more specifically about waste reduction, waste prevention. at a certain moment, I wanted to do more than only write about it. I wanted to actively try to change people's mindsets, people's behavior, and I wanted to inspire them not to so many things away I was, and I am, worried about the huge amounts of waste that we create every day.

There is so much trash. the, the oceans are filled up with plastic, and is, garbage on the beaches in Ghana, in Africa. And so it's Our situation is worrying, and it was in 2009, as well. So

to to do something about it, and I started thinking, "Why? Why do we create so much waste every day, and why don't we just take another look at an item and try to find another solution?" And one of the things that I found is that longer make repairs, and we don't do that anymore because we don't know how to do it anymore. We grown accustomed to, shops full of new stuff, every day. It's very attractive. It's not so to buy, so in advertising, you're stimulated every day to, to keep buying and to want the n- the newest model, which can do even more.

And, but in this ... So we've grown accustomed to this, this way of life. And, but everyone can see that it's, that it cannot go on Yeah

limited in the world, and we're running out of certain materials. the, oil, is not going to be around for, always. So need to a way to use up less of the natural resources and to, to use the, the, the things that we have longer Yeah. Yeah. So my motivation was to do something, about that, and I wanted to bring back repairing into our daily lives. Yeah

that many people don't know how to do it. they have no tools. They have no time. They never learnt how to do it. Many people are not even aware that there is something like repairing. at the same time, in all communities, there are still some people who do know how to do it and whose biggest hobby it actually is to, make repairs, to, to tinker, to find solutions, to be creative. So I thought, if I bring those people together with people have broken items but who don't know how to fix them, then we can do something for the environment, but also for the local community. So I thought it, it would be useful and fun at the same time. And, tested it 2009.

I thought about it a lot. I talked to many people, and I decided to test it, so I rented a room in a local theater in Amsterdam, and I decorated it in, with, tables, and I collected tools from all sorts of tools.

And, I found volunteers who wanted to help, and I wrote a press release and invited the, public. that was the first Repair Cafe, and I had no idea if people were going to show up. When I had put everything, in place that morning, I on the doorstep, and I thought, let's see what's going to happen."

But then a woman, and I was, I thought, maybe no one is going to show up."

a woman came around the corner carrying two big shopping bags, and she looked around, and she asked me, I'm looking for a place called Repair Cafe. Is that here?" And then I thought, "Okay, this is going to be, this is going to be fine."

that day, 80 to 100 visitors came Yeah

their broken items, all sorts of things. And immediately it became clear that it was not only, something for the environment, but it was also a social thing. It was

gathering where people started talking about the things that they brought and, why they had it, why they wanted to keep it, how they, why they liked it, which memories were attached to it.

And so it turned out to, to work, Yeah what prompted me to, go on with it afterwards.

Ingrid: It's absolutely incredible, isn't it? Just, a small idea, but such a mass- it, turned into a big, a massively big idea. But you basically did it because you were like, "We need to do something here. What can I do myself to make the situation better?" And I agree with you. Our parents, our grandparents still knew how to repair things, and things were repairable back in the day as well.

There are a lot of things that are not repairable anymore either, which is of course one of the big problems. But, I'm very lucky that I have a husband who loves to tinker and who's very handy, and I'm like, please, I hope my son, will get some of these skills as well." He's already thankfully very crafty, my son, so he knows how to knit and sew and crochet and s- I know.

It's ama- and he loves it because it's, for him it's like a hobby and...

But I'm hoping that he will also, that love will also go into repairing other things that, are repairable because like you say, these days it's so easy to shop and just to click that button when something looks or you think something is broken or it doesn't work anymore.

You think, "Oh, it's broken." we don't e-

"You need to get a new one." Exactly. Exactly. So what an amazing idea, and I'm so delighted that people actually showed up for you because that was a big... Yeah.

Martine Postma: Or it would have been a different Exactly. But from the moment, y- at the first day was that, I thought until then that I was the only one thinking this way.

event made me realise I'm not alone. There are

who are not happy with their own throwaway behaviour, and they

because

not because they want to, but they don't know what else to do. yeah don't to turn. But when there is a, an alternative, when they have somewhere to go with their broken item, they are more than happy to go there. And, it, yeah, it creates a whole new atmosphere I think it's so important that community indeed that you mention around it, right? It's, not only the repairing, the people who repair and the people who are coming in with their broken things. It's the whole, oh, you're waiting for somebody to look at something and you're chatting with somebody else, and you get a whole

Ingrid: of people around it, which of course helps the whole movement.

Martine Postma: absolutely. Yeah. you, So the idea at the Repair Cafe is y- that you stay there. You don't drop the item off Yeah

pick it up, but you sit down at the table with the volunteer and you try to fix it together. You try Ah. So you have we got here? What does it do? does it not do? Can we inside? Can we open it? Can we see what's wrong, and can we fix that? And

cases, it turns out that you can, get inside and you can fix it, even though the manufacturer did not design it, to make it easy to repair. it's still possible, and when you have that experience that, you see something that is broken and you find a solution and you fix it and it works again, then this is like, reattaching a wire in your own head. It's like a repair in your head. oh, wow, this is actually possible.

you realise that, it's actually normal. we've grown so accustomed to replacing and thinking, "Oh, I need to get a new one," that the whole idea of, item is broken, what can I do? How can I fix it?" has, disappeared. But at the Repair Cafe, you realise that, that it's an option, that it, that you can do it too, that it need not be so difficult, that in many cases the problem is not not so big and you can solve it. you do that, you, yeah, you feel good and you feel strong and you f- you realise that, that it's a normal thing to do. So

what we want to, to do with the Repair Cafe, change people's mindsets and motivate them Yeah

more Love it. I totally love it. So just I'm curious now, so what kind of things, the lady with the two bags, what kind of things do people bring in? Can you give us like a whole thing, like list of examples so people really start to think, "Oh, wow, I hadn't even realised I could bring that in." So what kind of things are we talking about?

basically everything that you can carry, you can

to the Repair Cafe and it will, have a chance to get repaired. But people come with small electrical household items like coffee makers, toasters, vacuum cleaners, lamps, radios, cassette players, video players, printers, tools also like grinders or, or

you are also welcome with textiles or with jewelry or with toys or with your bicycle or bags or So basically it's, everything you can carry

Ingrid: Amazing. And of course, I think a lot of people are used to bringing clothing to, a dry cleaners or a menders, shoes, I still... Because I don't have many shoes, but the shoes I have are good quality, so I can bring them to the cobblers to have m- mended. but so it surprises me that people bring clothing in, but sometimes it doesn't really need a mender, right?

It just needs somebody to show you how to do something

Martine Postma: Yeah, that's the idea. You, come there and the, the volunteer shows you how to do it. And, in many cases, the, the volunteer is, so experienced that they will do it for you. But the idea is always that you are there and you do it together. And

textile, with clothing, it's not so difficult. It's, a stitch that needs to be redone or a button that needs to be resewn, or... So the, the problems are, not big Yeah. Why do you think that we've lost the skill to repair? Is it because our schools have changed, the items have changed? What do you think is the reason for this?

there's a whole, there are lots of reasons combined.

earlier, I think, basically be- before the, the Second World War or early in the '50s, were, made to, last, so

of good quality, they were expensive. my grandparents bought their first vacuum cleaner in the '40s, and they...

That was a, a huge thing to do. it cost half a month's salary, so

up for a long time, and they, so they, couldn't just go to the shop and buy it, but they had to think carefully which one to buy. Someone came to their house to, to show how it worked, and then they talked about it, and then, they saved up a little more, and then they decided to buy the item. And, since it was such, a huge purchase, they were more likely to take good care of it. they, they read the, booklet, they did maintenance, they used it carefully, they didn't, pull the cord from the plug, carelessly. So because things were more expensive, people, tended to them better way.

they, didn't break so soon. And, so this- This kept the, the items in the loop for much longer. But then

found all sorts of ways to reduce their costs by

slightly, slightly less, s- slightly lower quality, material or a slightly thinner casing or another system to assemble the thing, easily, more easily by gluing it together instead of using screws or they did everything to, lower their costs and they lowered quality, in such a way that it still was an attractive product but not to, last forever because then you could replace it sooner. Yeah

m- moved the factories to low-wage countries and at the other side of the world so that you had to, pay the laborers less. So all these things together, created cheaper products gave us the idea that, that they were of less, value. Because if you don't have to save up for a long time and you can just go to the shop and buy something, then you don't have a sense of quality.

a kettle for 13 euros, then you, you use it differently.

And when, so you, and that goes for all things that Yeah a sense of quality, you use it more carelessly, you don't do maintenance. the product is of lower quality anyway it breaks sooner and that combined with you, taking, taking good care of it causes products to, break Yeah Yeah gotten more accustomed to the idea that products break and, we're, we see new products every day. So that has become the normal Yeah Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's, When you say, it all makes sense, doesn't it? It all makes sense why things have gone the way they are. And, I think it's so important that indeed instead of thinking, "What are we gonna do about the waste?" how we- can we prevent an item be- becoming waste in the first place, and how can we maintain it to make it last?

Ingrid: And, i- just so you know, listeners, we actually have, within our, Inner Hub membership, a whole course about maintaining electrical items, because I'm like, yes. Because I'm like, he- this is how you clean your kettle. This is how you clean your microwave. This is how you clean your dishwashers, your washing machine, your Hoover.

Because if you do a little bit of maintenance on them, they last longer and they do the job better for you.

Martine Postma: Absolutely that's why I love the whole idea of the repair cafe so much, because it's right up my street of, you need to take care of these items, because we... Decluttering is so much more than only I wanna get rid of it and where do I get rid of it.

Ingrid: It's also, let's also buy better quality. Let's buy things that last. Let's take care of items so they last longer. So I'm, here with you. I'm here with you, Martina. So okay. I think we should go... I have so many more questions. Let's go for a quick break, and I would love to know more about the cafes and the volunteers.

So listeners, I hope you're as invested in this conversation as I am. Quick break, and we're right back.

Hi, listeners. Welcome back. I'm chatting with Martine Postma from the Repair Cafe, and we've done a whole deep dive into, why the Repair Cafe started in the first place, how important it is to repair and maintain and fix your items. So Martine, I would love to know a little bit more, because you started with one cafe, and now you are, it- have thousands and thousands of them all over the world.

that is absolutely amazing. how did that happen? Was it such a success from that day one that you thought, "We need to replicate this," and what happened?

Martine Postma: yeah. first of all, I don't have all these repair cafes. They

they are volunteer groups around the world who

repair cafe independently Okay and they are responsible for everything they do. But

a network, a global network of repair cafes. And did this happen?

so I told you about the first repair cafe

a, a great success.

I remember we were going to close at 5:00, and there was a woman who ran into the repair cafe at five minutes to 5:00. She had toothbrush that wasn't working anymore, she said, "Oh, am I too late? can I come back next week?

When is the next time?" and, at first this was a one-off, meeting just to, to, see if it worked,

but, clearly it, it worked. And afterwards, so many people started to approach me and asked if, said they wanted something like that in their own community, and couldn't we have coffee, couldn't I give them some tips how to do this in their community. So I thought, "Whoa, this is going to be a bit bigger than I thought. I need do this in a, in a different way."

of the, creating a sort of starter kit Yeah

on how to start your own Repair Cafe. So I wrote a manual on how to do that, how to find volunteers, how to collect tools, what kind of a location is, suitable, what should be in a press release, how do you keep the volunteers happy, how do you provide a safe working environment.

someone to create a logo and we So we created a whole, kit with everything there is to know about starting your own local Repair Cafe.

we put it on, a website. it spread, in the beginning it spread mainly through the media, because I

requests from journalists and video makers and TV, radio programs who all wanted to come to the Repair Cafe to, to do interviews and make photos and films and, and spread this, it and spread it among the public. At first we had, from the Netherlands but then, soon we, started to get the correspondence from foreign media, so they started to, publish in, their country, in their media. that's how we got requests from, ordinary people who wanted Repair Cafes in other countries. So then we translated the materials in, five languages.

So we're, we ... The materials are now available in Dutch, English, French, German and Spanish, and they can be ordered on our website repaircafe.org, worldwide

Ingrid: Absolutely amazing. So basically someone who thinks, "I love this idea. I wanna start a repair cafe," can basically go to the website, download the starter kit, and th- they can just go and set up one,

the, the, in, in wherever they are in their local community. So the people who volunteer then, do they, are they just kind of friends and family who think, "Oh, I can do s-," is it do, they need to have certain skills to be a volunteer?

Martine Postma: they do, but it's not like you have to fill out a list or you have to meet certain requirements. Many--

people who volunteer at the Repair Cafe are, they're tinkerers. They have been doing this for decades, fixing everything in the house, teaching their children and helping their family.

so they know what they're doing. Yeah. experience is that when someone has the idea to start a Repair Cafe, they just need to start talking about it in circle of friends, family, their street, and then, will show up, or then someone will say, "Oh, that's nice. You need to ask, Theo. He lives

the corner, and he's always making repairs at home." or ask my husband, or, I've got this, neighbor. And it's not so difficult to find five, six, maybe ten volunteers. And

a small group, you should just get started, find a room, invite the public, and, fix a date in, every first Saturday of the month, for instance, so that people can get used to the idea.

People can,

come in to see what it's like, and, next time bring an item, or, next time maybe join up as a volunteer. and so the volunteers are not so difficult to find because

they just love repairing,

love to share their skills. And in many cases, it's, they are a little bit older. some are retired, some are w-out of work, or... not, everyone, but the, the, the typical Repair Cafe volunteer is over fifty,

over sixty. So they have the, time in their life and to, do, volunteer work.

like to, stay involved, and they want to be useful. They want to contribute to They want to be, valued. They want to feel appreciated. So

that's what it-- what the Repair Cafe Yeah Yeah

at they are the... they're the hero of the day. And they get a lot of, positive Yeah Yeah cake and applause and taps on the shoulder. So it's a-- for them, it's a rewarding thing to Totally win-win.

Yeah. absolutely. is there anything that you think, "Ooh, that is something we typically can't fix"? Are there items that you know, too difficult at the moment, m- hopefully not in the future, but are there any items that you think, "Yeah, that, that is, is just hard"? Maybe, I don't know, mobile phones or something.

Ingrid: Is that something that needs specific, or is there anything else that you can think of

Martine Postma: phones are, or our volunteers usually are not, mobile phone repair experts. some are, so you can never be sure. Yeah. to go to a repair cafe and see if they can fix it. but the, typical thing that, repair cafes fix are the, the household everyday, Yeah. Got it. Got it

also some repair cafes do not do microwaves or televisions because of, high voltage issues. But there are also repair cafes who, who do these things and who are aware of the risks of high voltage repairs and who have their own, procedures for that. So they are-- our network is very diverse.

It's,

every repair cafe is different. Some are small, some are big. Some don't do textiles, some do only textiles. Some have a specific, clock maker who can fix, antique clocks, or they have a jewelry repairer. yeah, it's, very diverse

Ingrid: It's amazing. It's amazing. So you say normally they try to, every repair cafe has got its own rhythm. Is the idea that they're open once every month on the first Saturday or the third Saturday or is it like, some repair cafes are only open four times per year? Is there a structure to that?

Martine Postma: that's completely up to the organizer

Ingrid: Ah, okay

Martine Postma: it's once a

Ingrid: Yeah

Martine Postma: are also repair cafes that open every week or every two weeks or even three times a

Ingrid: Yeah. Wow.

Martine Postma: a year, and

a, bigger event. but it's, just the, organizer chooses and what fits the, this typical community.

repair cafes that open every week and then have, fewer, visitors per, but that suits them because it's, more quiet and they've got some, more time to spend or the, they can spend more time on a, repair.

but it's ... There are no rules. Everyone can join and make it their repair cafe to fit their local, community

Ingrid: amazing. So if somebody has never been to a repair cafe and is now thinking, "Oh, I've got a broken, kettle in my house that's in my garage and/or it's something that I've been meaning to fix," where would we go and find one? What's the best place to go to figure out if there's a repair cafe?

Martine Postma: I would say our website,

repaircafe.org/en/visit. a world map

Ingrid: Yeah.

Martine Postma: all the repair cafes that we are aware of, on the map.

Ingrid: Yeah

Martine Postma: And there's a search field below the map where you can type your name, and then you can see if there's a repair cafe near you

Ingrid: And if somebody's never been and wants to go for the first time, have you got any tips or advice for them? if you've got, a big item, go and have a look first to see if they can fix it, or are you like, "No, just show up and bring your thing"?

Martine Postma: It can never hurt to ask, if the, to ask if they can fix your item

look on their website or to,

prepare a little bit. If you bring an electrical item, also bring the accessories to it, so the the cord or the adapter or the,

maybe the, if you have an, a booklet with, user manual, bring that so

your visit. but you can also show up.

Ingrid: Yeah

Martine Postma: cafes have a, system where you can register in advance, so you can

also... you can, let them know what you're going to bring so they can prepare, too, and they can, fix you up with a specific repairer who has much experience with this typical item. But m- many repair cafes are just, open to everyone to walk in

Ingrid: Yeah

Martine Postma: yeah.

Ingrid: Amazing. So looking back now, 2009, we're now with 2026, do you have any idea how many items you have fixed? is there an average every day, every month, every year? how amazing. It must be millions

Martine Postma: it is probably millions. Yes, we have a counter on the homepage of our website. for, so every time we add a new repair cafe, the, the counter goes one up. And we have now, 3,987 repair cafes in our network, and we also count the estimated number of items repaired per month, and that is 71,604. So if you, multiply that by 12, let me do that. 71,

Ingrid: We're invested now. We're invested.

Martine Postma: Per year, that would be 895,248.

Ingrid: Wow. About a million, yeah,

Martine Postma: Yeah.

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. It's incredible how one really, just an idea, and you just ran away with it. You set it up. You did it. You must be feeling absolutely proud. I really hope you feel proud that you are the one behind this idea, and that it's just taken such a, a flight all over the world of people thinking, "This is a really good idea.

We need to do this."

Martine Postma: Well, I'm happy that so many people, joined the movement and like the idea. And for me it's, it's my everyday work, so I'm not, aware of it all the time.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Martine Postma: take a step back and, it is special. But What I find most important is that so many You can have an idea, but if no one, if no one likes the idea, if no one acts on the idea or follows it, then you've got nothing.

So it's the, the other people that I, appreciate so much, the people who, are, yeah, who like this idea, who decided to start their own repair

Ingrid: Yeah

Martine Postma: spread the message in their community. And, they are the ones w- all together who created this movement that

put things in motion

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much, Martina, for this conversation. I've really appreciate it. I've really loved learning more about Repair Cafe. can you just repeat the website one more time for our listeners so they know where to go?

Martine Postma: Yes. If you want to start a Repair Cafe or you want to visit one, go to repaircafe.org/en. That's the English section of our website, and there you can find, how to find a-- where to find a Repair Cafe, how to start a Repair Cafe, to become a volunteer, and everything else you need to know

Ingrid: Brilliant, brilliant. So listeners, has this inspired you? Are you now gonna run to your kitchen cupboards, have a little rummage and go, "Yes, in the back of my cupboard there is something that's been broken for ages, and I just don't know what to do with it. I'm feeling inspired." Go to the website, and of course, don't forget to tell us which item it is that you would have, would love to have repaired, and that you're gonna give it a go.

So I'm expecting loads and loads of comments, on this, podcast. Let us know in the comments. And, we appreciate you listening. Thanks again, Martina, for being here, for being our guest today. I hope it's been helpful, and I love spreading the word about repairing and maintaining and fixing things.

So listeners, thank you for listening, and we'll see you again next week