A photograph of a smiling Sarah Bickers wearing a blue top, talking about decluttering with ADHD

Episode 74 – Guest expert Sarah Bickers shares her insight into ADHD and clutter

In this podcast, Ingrid talks to Professional Organiser, Sarah Bickers, who specialises in working with clients with ADHD. If you are interested in the relationship between living with ADHD and having clutter or untidiness in your home, this is the podcast for you. Sarah Bickers is a Professional Organiser working in South East London and shares her insight into ADHD and whether it links in to clutter.

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Transcript of this podcast episode

Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of the declutter hub podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen, and Lesley Spellman.

Ingrid  0:31  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 74 of the declutter hub Podcast. I'm Ingrid. Before we get started with the main part of the podcast, I'd like to remind you of a few things we have got going on in the declutter app at the moment. We have just started with our 40 days 40 items challenge, where we are decluttering one or more items per day from our homes. It's all taking place over in the declutter hub community Facebook group. So come on over and take a look to see whether you can be inspired. If you have more than 40 things to tackle. Come and take a look at the declutter hub membership, where we guide you step by step through each area of your home with courses, live q&a sessions, challenges, quick wins and our community chat. Check it out on members dot Declutter. hub.com. So in today's episode, I'm talking to Sarah Baker's of free your space. Right from the start, Sarah focused on working with clients with ADHD. Having on the ground personal family experience. She helps her clients to organise their homes and be more productive at work. Sarah loves being an informed, calm and supportive Ella to her clients. And she delivers workshops for clients with ADHD talks to ADHD support groups, and as recently launched a new training programme ADHD for organisers. So welcome, Sarah. So happy you're here. I mean, we've known each other for about five years now. And we actually both work and live in southeast London. And we've become good friends over the past five years. And I really appreciate you being on the show.

Sarah  2:11  
It's great to be here. I felt quite honoured when you contacted me to ask me to come and talk. So thank you.

Ingrid  2:18  
Well, you know a lot about ADHD. And I think it's very interesting for our listeners to learn more about ADHD as well. And who better to then chat to what is one of your best mates. So you could just have a little chat for the podcast as well.

Sarah  2:31  
Exactly.

Ingrid  2:34  
Now, in today's podcast, we're chatting to Sarah, about ADHD and ADHD and clutter are linked. How many people Sarah, do you think here in the UK are suffering from ADHD?

Speaker 3  2:50  
So that's really interesting question. Because internationally across the world, there's thought to be between three to 4% of adults who don't have ADHD. And it's pretty well spread among. There's no particular people group or ethnicity, where it's heavier, it seems to be pretty consistently across the entire population. So around 3% of adults in the UK have the condition. But what's interesting is only about 120,000 are formally diagnosed. So that's less than 10% of the people in the UK who actually have ADHD have formerly been diagnosed.

Ingrid  3:27  
Wow. So if I because if we think that we have about 60 million people here in the UK, then if you say three to 4%, I'm thinking a couple of million then.

Speaker 3  3:39  
No, it's It's 120,000 foot. Yeah. Out of a couple of million. Yeah, you're right. So it's, it's shocking how under diagnosed it is. And interestingly, particularly among women, because it's only been in the last 20 years or so that people have really started to understand how ADHD affects women as well.

Ingrid  3:59  
I had no idea. So thank you for enlightening us. I thought it would be maybe if I think back to what I know, I think it would I always think of ADHD as almost something that's connected to children.

Speaker 3  4:13  
Yeah, I mean, basically, about 20 years ago, people started to understand that ADHD could persist into adulthood. And I think the rate among children worldwide is about 5%. So some children will, their symptoms are significantly decreased into adulthood so that they don't have the system problems. Hence, the slightly lower rate in adulthood, but it's still quite high percentage. So, you know, it's basically one in 20. I think. So that's at least one child and every classroom is likely to have ADHD.

Ingrid  4:48  
Wow. Okay. It's I have no idea actually about the speaker. So I think that's very, very interesting. Now in your experience, as well, you mentioned I mentioned in your in your introduction that you have on the ground personal family experience with ADHD. Do you want to say a bit more about that? Because I think that it's interesting for our next question as well.

Speaker 3  5:11  
Yeah, sure. So in my family and my wider family, I had two nieces diagnosed with ADHD, one of them as an adult, and then her younger sister was subsequently diagnosed. And that got everyone thinking about their own families because it's, there's a high degree of inheritance with ADHD. And actually looking back at my own family life, the home that I grew up in was quite chaotic. And, you know, my mum loves to project but she didn't like she was not very good at doing the day to day routine. Housework, which can be a real challenge for people with ADHD. So there were a number of things that I recognised from my childhood as as maybe demonstrating that she had some of these challenges as well. And so one of my children I got assessed because he was coming up to GCSE age, and I didn't want to miss out, miss something in the way that my sister felt she had. So just got him access to all it out. And at the very first appointment, they said, Yes, he's very likely to have ADHD, which was a bit of a shock to me. And then subsequently, his younger sibling was also diagnosed. That's two out of three of my children who have it. So I always say ADHD runs through my family like a stick of rock. So far, I think five out of 15 of the grandchildren have been diagnosed. So quite high rate, it all feels very familiar to me. Yeah. And so on, feel very familiar and have done right from the start. So yeah.

Ingrid  6:44  
So then looking at it from personal experience, and also your experience as a professional organisation. You work a lot with clients who've got ADHD. Do you think there's a connection between ADHD and Culatta? Is that Is there an obvious connection? Yeah,

Speaker 3  7:03  
I think there are quite a few reasons why people with ADHD are more likely to have cluttered environment. But before I start, I want to just say that people with ADHD are not a homogenous group that there's so many other conditions that they might also have or just different personalities. We know that human beings vary massively. And actually, one of the things I would say is that I come across people with ADHD who actually very tidy and not very cluttered at all, and often that can be a kind of overcompensation for the chaos that's in their head means that they have to be on top of everything, they have to be really controlling about their environment, because if their environment starts to feel cluttered, then that just tips me over the edge. So, you know, some some of my clients, particularly the ones I'm working on in productivity, that's their external environment wouldn't demonstrate you wouldn't look at it and think, Oh, that's a really cluttered house. I wonder if they've got ADHD. But many of my clients do struggle with clutter. And I think there's a number of reasons why. So firstly, as I mentioned, doing boring tasks is really difficult for people with ADHD. And obviously, what's boring to you might not be boring to me. So that varies, but often the boring routine tasks. So for example, hoovering, tidying up putting things in the dishwasher, keeping on top of laundry, all of those things can be a real challenge to maintain because they're essentially boring and repetitive. And people with ADHD can activate their energy and attention levels, if they're excited or interested in something, but they need that extra kick of the dopamine to actually activate that interest. So doing the boring things is much more challenging for people with ADHD. And they have to really work on that. So it's not that they're being lazy. So that's, that's one reason. And also another reason I think it's quite important is that people with ADHD, they're very, can often be quite distracted. And, and they'll notice new things, or I always call them shiny things, new, shiny activities. So maybe somebody does, they watch a programme about learning to crochet or doing zero waste staff. And what happens is, they get really excited and energised by this new idea, this new shiny idea, and then they go out and buy all the equipment for it. And then they don't necessarily pursue it because it maybe it's not as interesting as they thought it was. So it's easy for people to end up with all these different opportunities that they've taken on. And they've found it difficult to actually let go of some of those things and say, Actually, I'm not doing that anymore. All the same things that we're familiar with as professional organisers, but to a greater degree so that that temptation to take on lots of shiny You tasks can really mean that clutter accumulates.

Ingrid  10:04  
Very interesting because I agree with you, we see that in our clients a lot. But it's interesting to hear that it can be also linked to tasks and well meaning things they have been way more meaning to do and then but don't plan out or I need to investigate a lot more than they need to know a lot more to implement this properly.

Speaker 3  10:23  
Exactly, exactly. And I think another point is that ADHD will often that the decision making part of things is particularly difficult for them because everything feels like it's equal value, it's really hard for them to prioritise between what's more important than another thing. So you know, that that's something that we know makes it difficult to declutter. decluttering is basically about making decisions. So if you find it really hard to make decisions, that then means that the clutter starts to accumulate. Not quite sure whether you will take on that hobby at some point when you've got a bit more time. So it makes it more difficult.

Ingrid  11:02  
Now, you I've done a lot of preparation for this podcast, and I've read a lot of the very, very good stuff that you've sent their way. And what I found very interesting was you mentioned something about fixed mindsets. And I thought, Oh, that's interesting. I want to ask, share a bit more about that. What do you mean, with fixed mindset versus a growth mindset?

Speaker 3  11:26  
So a fixed mindset is when we say to ourselves, I'm really messy, or I'm disorganised or I'm really lazy. And and I think the reason that I think about this a lot in relation with ADHD is because people with ADHD, have basically spent their whole lives being told by others or telling themselves that they're lazy or disorganised or cluttered or messy. And, and what happens is that is that that's a description of who you are, rather than a journey that you're on. And a growth mindset is about slightly reframing that, and instead of saying, I'm messy, you might say I'm becoming less messy. And that allows you to change and grow and develop skills. And, and the danger is with people with ADHD they've had, they have often real challenges with self esteem, because they've kind of identified themselves in this fixed way. And one of the greatest challenges we have, and you know, it's a real privilege to kind of encourage people to just, you know, to call people out when they're using that kind of language and actually say, Well, you know, you're learning to become more organised, you're, you're becoming less messy. And, and that can be quite a challenging idea to people, because they're so used to kind of having that identity.

Ingrid  12:47  
So do you do you really actively listen to what your clients are saying? Because when you pick up on those things, you can change that and challenge, that kind of wording they say about themselves.

Speaker 3  13:00  
I mean, that's a conversation that we'll have. So I'll I'll say to people, are you happy for me to, for us to talk about this. It's not something we talk about, I talk about with every client, but part of my role is to bring my experience of ADHD to my clients. And, you know, when you spend all day listening to somebody saying terrible things about themselves, you think, well, this is just one day for me with this whole lives. They're, they're doing this, and they've maybe never noticed that they're doing it. So I'll often just mention it in passing, and then that might lead to a conversation. So

Ingrid  13:35  
yeah, yeah, I think because we observe not only look at what our clients are doing, like we observe, and we listen to what they're saying, we look at their faces, and about that we look at their posture, and we, we see and we recognise things that we can then work with and take it into a positive direction.

Speaker 3  13:59  
Conversation, isn't it? It's a relationship with conversation of so relationship of trust that we have with clients, and you know, you're, you're looking at people's liquor drawers and talking to them about all sorts of different very personal things, you're looking at their filing systems, all sorts of stuff. So these things do come up. And you know, like I say, it's something that I always will contract with them as to whether they're comfortable talking about it, obviously.

Ingrid  14:27  
Now, you've also said something else, and it's you call it the two piece. Can you tell me a bit more about the two piece?

Speaker 3  14:35  
Yeah, so this is just was Mark came from observation, really, over the last six years was just noticing how prevalent perfectionism is among people with ADHD. And you might think to yourself, Well, surely if they're really cluttered, they're far from being perfectionist, but actually, one of the main challenges is that something called the all or nothing will which Is that you either make it absolutely perfect or you don't bother at all. So how this plays out, I mentioned those people with ADHD who can be very tidy. And often they're tidy and quite a perfectionist way. But for many people, what will happen is they'll tidy up their bedroom, and then gradually it will build up and up and up again, and it will reach a tipping point where they think, Oh, I can't get this place, tidy in half an hour, and I haven't got the three hours it takes and I can't make it perfect. So I'm just not going to bother at all. And then And then things can get into quite a bad state, because you've gone past the point where it feels possible. And your perfectionism actually stops you from just, you know, doing 10 minutes of picking things up off the floor. And the other side of that coin is that that can lead you to procrastinate everything. So you think, oh, I want to do this task. I want to, you know, organise that right this document or whatever. But I'm not sure how I want to do it. And I want to do it really well. I want to please the person I'm doing it for. And so you can just put off and put off and put off doing it until it becomes really urgent. And that urgency helps activate dopamine for people with ADHD. And so then the urgency becomes the trigger. But they'll often leave it right till the last minute until that high degree of urgency makes it easier for them to get started. Does that make sense?

Ingrid  16:27  
Yes, definitely. Because I think I've worked with several clients who have got ADHD diagnosed or undiagnosed. And the filing investigative filing system was quite out of control. And they were like angry, we want the perfect system. Can you tell us exactly how I need to file? Yeah, I want to have your system because you're organised. And I want to have a carbon copy of your file, I'm like, it doesn't work that way, your filing system has to work for you. So we can't put more stuff in a filing system that's actually Packed to the Rafters we have to start and do the filing system itself. And make sure that the categories make sense. And that the subcategories make sense to build it around your life. So it was either I'm not going to touch the filing system anymore, because it's so so full. So I've got now paperwork everywhere. And I'm like, oh, no, we need to start with the filing system. And they're like, but but that's paper, everyone like I know, but it needs to go somewhere.

Speaker 3  17:26  
And what I'm what they're doing is that essentially they're putting off decision making, which is a bit challenging, they want you to make the decision for them. Yeah, tell them how to do it, because then they can just get on and do it and doing things, you know, if you set up a system can feel easier than having to make the decision about. So, yeah,

Ingrid  17:47  
and I think it's all it's always a collaboration, I think, to find out what is important for the client, in this case, the client with ADHD, but for any client is to build a system that works for them, and that works around them and find and find the the balance in the system. And what's working, of course,

Speaker 3  18:08  
yeah, and I think, you know, one of the biggest challenges working with somebody with ADHD is to put aside that expertise, if you like you being the expert, who's going to tell them what to do, because they've had that all their lives, they've had people telling them how to do something, and then then not being able to maintain it. So I always think of it in terms of putting slightly putting the ball back in their court, empowering them to start making decisions and to trust their own decision making this like quite an important element. So, you know, I will make suggestions, but they're always just suggestions. And I always encourage them to kind of bounce back and say, Oh, no, I don't think that will work for me, because it's really important that people develop systems that work for themselves. And, and that they're prepared to take a more scientific approach. And I know that was one of the things that we were going to talk about today. And perhaps now's a good time to talk about it. So often with ADHD as part of that all or nothing strategy, they can set up a system. And then when it doesn't work, they think, oh, that's another system. It just didn't work. And so say you set up a filing system with a client and they find it really difficult to maintain. And I always say to them, you need to treat it like more like a scientific piece of research where when somebody does some research, if it doesn't work, you don't just begin the research, you think right? What do we need to change about that research? How How, how could we have get got a better results. And I'm encouraging clients all the time to tweak systems rather than just ditch the system. So you know, the filing system didn't work. What was it about it? What was it about it that made it work first and then what were the challenges? And is there a way that we could tweak this to make it work better and fit you better?

Ingrid  19:55  
Yes, I think is very true. And I think that's why I Oh also explain to people who want to become organisers it's like you can't copy your own house into your clients house, you need to find out what works for them, and build a system around their life and their hobbies and their work and their day to day activities. Because then you've got far more chance that it actually works for them. Absolutely, yeah. So can we talk a little bit about managing expectations, as well?

Speaker 3  20:27  
Well, I think you've already mentioned it, when you talked about your client with the filing system, it's that, you know, they're really excited, they've got somebody in to help them and they, they often will start off thinking, Oh, my goodness, I've got a professional organiser in, I'm going to change my whole life, I'm going to suddenly become much more organised, everything's going to be perfect From now onwards. And so part of my job is to kind of manage those expectations. So if you're really messy person, you're not suddenly going to turn into a really tidy person. Or if you do turn into a really tidy person, it will probably be at the cost of your mental health. So I'm always encouraging a kind of more gradual transition. And like I said something about the growth mindset, that idea of just gradually shifting things. Because if you start off thinking, Oh, I'm gonna make my house perfect, and then it's difficult to maintain, then you'll just give up and then you'll soon be back where you were, if not worse. So, again, it's kind of coming back to the perfectionism, isn't it? Is it saying, right? What's reasonable? What what are we going to change? And even often, at the end of the day, I'll say to them, you know, this looks really great this room, doesn't it like this? I know, it's not going to stay like this forever. And some stuff might start to come back. But you might not think about, you know, what's your trigger point for starting to tidy up. So I had a client contact me last week to say, I'd help to sort out her room twice, about six months apart a year apart. And she contacted me the other day to say that she thinks I got a bit out of hand. And she'd just taken herself in task. And she just sorted it all out and got it all back to normal. And that is a complete triumph for her because she didn't need me to come in and do it, she actually took ownership and did it herself. And so for me, the triumph for that was, was that didn't matter that she hadn't kept it perfectly since I last saw her. What mattered was that she recognised it and passed a tipping point. And she took charge of it that said to me, that's a success.

Ingrid  22:36  
Absolutely, I would definitely count that as a success, because it's so nice that they are using the techniques that we thought them and that we've gone through with them. And they can now feel comfortable in taking that on board and doing those things. And there's, I mean, we're definitely going to talk a bit about shame and embarrassment as well. Because there is no shame or embarrassment to ask for help or to get a professional organiser in. I think our aim is not to be in our clients lives for the next 50 years. You know, I think our aim is that we also then transfer some of our skills over them. So they can also start to do other projects in their house and feel that they control the clutter, so that the clutter controlling them.

Speaker 3  23:21  
Yeah, and I think people with ADHD, they may come back in the future. And I know, with many of my clients, I work with them over a number of months, and then we'll have a little break. And then they'll maybe call me back a year later to tackle a different room or room that's got out of control. But there's always that kind of understanding that they're not I'm not going to be shocked by the fact that things aren't exactly as I left them, you know, because because we've talked about expectations. And, you know, we've discussed all of that that stuff during a session.

Ingrid  23:54  
So do you practice your own techniques, because two out of your three children have ADHD. So you've got first hand experience, but when it's family, it must be much harder to do I think or not,

Speaker 3  24:07  
it can definitely be challenging at times one of my children, I always say he leaves a trail of clues behind him, you always know what he's done. Because you know, every job he does halfway through he forgets to shop cupboard door or he leaves the lid off something or so you can go around the house and know exactly what he's done. And it's it is challenging when you've got people in the home, you know, I mean, we all have different relationships to cancer, but with ADHD, you know, it can be quite challenging. And I think I made a decision quite early on that how their rooms were was their responsibility, not mine. So from from probably from secondary school age, I kind of backed off their bedrooms, and they have to tidy up their rooms once a week before the cleaner comes. And if the if they haven't tidied up the room then the deal is that they have to tidy up the room and clean it so Are we've got this kind of agreement between us. And it seems to work quite well. It means that once a week, the whole house is clean and tidy. And, you know, you don't have to worry about infestations or anything like that, but I'm not expecting them to keep their rooms immaculate. But I think that's generally good advice anyhow, for teenagers or children at secondary school. So, yeah, I think I think managing other people's clutter. Is that like a whole other podcast? Yeah.

Ingrid  25:28  
I know. And I'm thinking, Hmm, my kids are 11 or 13. I've got this ultra calm, I've got this ultra comm.

Speaker 3  25:36  
Absolutely. I think if they've grown up with some degree of organisation and order around them, then I like to think I might be deluding myself, but I like to think that they will revert back to that at some point in the future. So my daughter who's left home is tidier some of the time than she was when she was at home. Not not in a perfect way. But so yeah, everyone's got their own journey with their own stuff. And I think it's quite important, particularly with ADHD, I don't want to spend my whole time nagging my children, because that's just more negative stuff coming their way. I want to make it as easy as possible for them to succeed and, and not be, you know, affecting their self esteem by constantly telling them off about something, it's going to be more difficult for them.

Ingrid  26:23  
Yeah. Well, I think literally, that is an excellent statement to close this podcast with a share. Is there anything else you would like to share with us in this podcast? I know we're going to have you back for another podcast. Because, of course now I'm completely intrigued to hear from you all the practical things that people with ADHD can do in their home. So we're gonna definitely do another podcast with you. But is there anything else you would like to add in this podcast?

Speaker 3  26:52  
I think the main thing that I would like to say is that is not to feel embarrassed about asking for help. And I think it's really natural for people to feel embarrassed or ashamed. And I don't want to minimise that. But at the same time, you know, a good professional organiser, or even a good friend, who's not going to make you feel ashamed can really help you get on top of things.

Ingrid  27:16  
Well, listeners, I think that's excellent advice from Sarah. And we hope you've enjoyed listening to this podcast and are inspired by Sarah's comments and about fixed and growth mindsets about the perfectionism and the procrastination and managing those expectations. If you have ADHD, yourself diagnosed or undiagnosed, perhaps, or if you live with somebody who has got ADHD, and all of this maybe sound very, very familiar to you, you think that Sara, she knows her stuff, she knows what she's talking about. She's made a lot of sense to me and the penny starts to drop a little bit. So we will definitely put Sarah's details in the show notes, her website, her socials, we'll put all of that in. And I know she's got a really good 10 Top Tips overview that you will get if you go to her website and sign up. And that will come into your inbox as a PDF. So if you want to check that out, make sure you go to her website. We'll put all the details in the show notes. So thanks so much for taking the time to listen today. Thank you so much, Sarah, for your expertise.

Sarah  28:25  
Thank you. You're very welcome.

Ingrid  28:27  
Listeners, if you'd like to get more tips and advice, please follow us on social media. We are on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, as at declutter hub and we've got a lively support a Facebook group called the declutter hub community where we chat all things clutter. We'd love to see you there. Don't forget our members area too. We offer step by step online courses, live q&a sessions and a membership community. If you need some support to achieve your goals and lead a more fulfilled life for that stuff being the focus than the membership is just the thing. Have a look on members of declutter hub.com for more information. If you don't want to miss the next weekly episode, subscribe to the declutter help podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. See you next time.

Outro  29:20  
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HOW TO GET TIDIER WITH ADHD – A GUEST BLOG BY SARAH BICKERS

Sarah Bickers, our guest blogger, is a Professional Organiser based in South East London who has a particular interest in helping people who have always been disorganised. She often works with clients with ADHD to help create systems which work for them and reduce their overwhelm.

Having ADHD may have landed you the label of being messy. Is it time to lose that label?

What is the dictionary definition of mess?

A dirty or untidy state of things, or of a place.
A situation that is confused and full of problems.

ADHD and messiness

ADHD is characterised by three main elements:

1
Difficulty focusing (forgetting what you were doing or getting distracted by other tasks)
2
Impulsivity (perhaps taking on new tasks without thinking through the implications)
3
Hyperactivity (difficulty sitting down to tackle boring tasks)

Becoming tidier

Slow down and finish the job

As a tidy friend once told me: “The only difference between a messy person and a tidy person is that a tidy person finishes the job.”

ADHD brains are often racing onto the next job. You rush in through the front door already thinking about unpacking the shopping, running to the loo, or taking your child to their next activity. With your brain busy of course you forget about putting the key back on its hook, putting your shoes away tidily or hanging up your coat.

Slowing down really helps you to focus or stay present in the task you’re doing. (Mindfulness training is great for addressing this.)

Don't procrastinate

If you have ADHD you might leave things out as a reminder to take action. However, if those things are hurriedly ‘tidied away’ in a drawer out of sight it may feel like they cease to exist (out of sight, out of mind). On the other hand, once something has sat somewhere long enough (the stairs?!) it becomes invisible anyway - so find strategies which help you take action.

A place for everything

When people don’t know where to put things, or put them away in the wrong place it causes frustration looking for things plus a tendency to repeat buy when you can’t find it.

Having a place for everything is a key way to help you become tidier. The place should fit the task and make sense. So keep your shoe cleaning kit near to where you keep shoes or where you’d clean them. (That’s called ‘zoning’ in the professional organising community). Yes of course you still have to put things away, but knowing where they belong makes the job quicker and saves time searching later.

Believe you can become tidier

Start by being kinder to yourself about the way things are. And instead of beating yourself up about being messy (a fixed mindset) remind yourself you can become tidier. Develop a habit of tidying for 10 minutes each day rather than putting it off until you can do the job perfectly. You don’t need to be ‘Homes & Gardens perfect’ so watch out for any ‘all or nothing’ perfectionist tendencies.

Take responsibility

Have you noticed you’re more driven by other people’s needs than your own? Do you just tidy when you have friends coming round? Making your bed is a great way of being kind to your future self!

Alongside your own mess you may have to live with other people’s clutter. Or you may be the messiest in the house. We all need to take ownership of our own belongings - tidying up for others doesn’t fix the problem. If mess spills into communal areas just collect it and put it back by the owner’s room.

Taking a bit of extra time to maintain a tidier home reduces your stress and overwhelm - and remember, the less you have, the less there is to tidy!

Sarah Bickers, our guest blogger, is a Professional Organiser in South East London. You can find out all about Sarah at Free Your Space and you will find her on social media on Twitter and Facebook.

Useful Links and Resources