A photo of a woman smiling into camera wearing a yellow jumper leaning on a rail full of clothes
Episode 310 – How to choose what to wear with Jennifer Mackey-Mary

Is it stressful to get dressed every day because your wardrobe is a cluttered mess? Are you wearing 20% of your clothes, 80% of the time? In this podcast Ingrid is chatting to Jennifer Mackey-Mary, host of the EveryDay Style podcast, about how to get your wardrobe ship shape and learn how to edit it like a pro.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
Is it stressful to get dressed every day because your wardrobe is a cluttered mess? Are you wearing 20% of your clothes 80% of the time? Then this podcast episode is for you. I'm chatting with Jennifer Mackey-Mary host of the everyday style podcast, on how to get your wardrobe Ship Shape and learn how to edit your wardrobe like a pro.

00:35
You're listening to the Declutter Hub podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts decluttering and organizing your home. Now here's your host, Ingrid Jansen.

00:58
Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid if you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find the fun factor in the serious business of decluttering, and if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast. It all takes place in our free Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm and supportive community. Go to declutterhub.com, forward slash group to find out more. Well, hello everybody. We're so delighted that you're here, and I've got an amazing guest for you today, and we've already been chatting a little bit, and we're like, oh, so excited. So Jennifer, welcome to the declare for help Podcast. I'm so happy you're here.

01:47
Thank you so much. I am so excited to be here. This is one of my favorite topics to talk about. Well,

01:54
you reach out to us ages ago, and we thought, Oh, such a good topic. But at the time, we couldn't, you know that we had some other episodes I think ourselves about style and about podcasts, but we thought you sound so lovely and your topic sounds so good, we're gonna keep you in the archive. And now was like the perfect opportunity to go. Let's ask Jennifer to come on. Thankfully you said, Yes,

02:17
always, I'm just happy to be here. Oh,

02:22
wonderful. So, Jennifer, what's, what's the deal here? What? What are we going to we're going to talk, you know, editing your wardrobe like a pro. We're going to talk about clothing. We're going to talk about style. We're going to talk about wardrobes. But tell me, how did you get interested and fascinated by this topic?

02:40
So this is a very accidental career for me. I was not the kid who was, you know, obsessed with playing Barbie dolls. And, you know, I didn't want to be a fashion designer when I grew up. As a matter of fact, I grew up with a really, really difficult body to dress. And my whole life, I wondered, why don't clothes work for me the same as they work for my friends, right? Why does everything just not look quite right? Why do I struggle so hard? I thought if I lost weight, worked out more, spent more money, bought bigger things, but like nothing was working. And I also had the problem that I grew up in a family with terrible shopping habits. You know how some families are like travel families? Some people are sports families. We were a shopping family. We were just about collecting things. It was definitely quantity over quality. So I just had, I had this closet full of clothes, nothing to wear. Getting dressed was stressful. I hated the way I looked and everything. And then when I was 2526 I took a career change. And I used to be a corporate trainer in the restaurant industry, and I became a trainer in the clothing industry, teaching customer service and all those good things. And I started working for Chico's, which a lot of women know, and on the first day of work, they taught everyone who would be customer facing how to dress the four basic body shapes. And I was hooked. It was an absolute revelation for me that it wasn't me, it was the clothes, right? It was It wasn't my body that was malformed or weird, it was just I needed different pants. And once I figured out how to dress my body, my love affair with style was on. But even more than that, my love affair with helping women find the same thing was on. So fast forward a bunch of years. I was a stay at home mom. I'm a terrible stay at home mom. I like I need people, right? I need grown ups and people and to leave the house and all that good stuff. So I started a business as a wardrobe stylist, and I would go into women's homes and make them try on everything they wore, figure out what works, what doesn't, what do we need to add? And then we'd go shopping, and I would teach them how to dress their body shape. But what I found was that so many closets looked the way mine used to look, just stuff, right? Just clutter, just noise, and that really became. So kind of, my favorite part of the job was uncovering the good stuff that is hiding in every closet, because it is hiding in every closet, even women who are like, I have nothing good. Yes, you do, I promise. And then so we could rebuild the right way. And you know, I know you know this, but the mental weight that is lifted off of you when you get rid of the stuff that's not working is just incredible. And to see women be like, Oh, I can just open my closet doors and get dressed. That was just it for me. That was it. So that's sort of how I got started. And now, instead of going into women's homes, I help people on the internet do the exact same thing.

05:38
I love it so much, and you're so right. I mean, we do see lots of people, clients, members, people in our communities who say, I actually have five wardrobes bursting at the seams. Yes, and I got nothing to wear. I have absolutely nothing, because there's so much they can't see anymore. What they have. Things start to bulge out of the wardrobes. They end up on the floor. Everything gets muddled up, and then it looks crumpled. And then they keep wearing the same stuff over and over and over again. So I hear you, and I I'm like, a minute like you. I mean, I've, of course, I've got a background in hospital, in hospitality, and I love wardrobes as well. I don't know why. I just found it so I know satisfying to empty wardrobe with somebody. Now, of course, I don't give style advice. That's the reason why we invited youth on today's podcast. But the whole decluttering and organizing and kind of going, let's find the treasures here in this wardrobe. What are the things you are actually wearing? What do you love? What do you feel good at be, you know, let's first kind of make a big shift between these are the things that I wear and I love and I like, and then go, Okay, so where are where are the gaps? What are the missing pieces? And then I kind of hand over to, like, either a wardrobe stylist or a professional to say, Okay, now, now it's up to you, but at least I've now made sure that you have a wardrobe that no longer kind of wants you to tear your hair out

07:10
absolutely, exactly.

07:12
So first of all, what is Chico's? Because we've, we go all over the world, is that, like a big retail shop,

07:19
Chico's is a women's retailer. They were started in Florida, I don't know how many decades ago, but they dress, how do we say it? Women of a certain age? I think they're, they're they're clientele. Their target audience is women in their 50s and 60s, which, you know, I was 26 this was not but I don't know. I've always loved I've always loved women in that age category, especially because I love women crying in a fitting room. And I know that sounds weird, I know it sounds strange, but I love it, because there is such an opportunity to really change someone's life. When you are crying in a fitting room, you are literally at your lowest right, like you are just everything is wrong. You think everything is wrong with you. You think it's impossible to fix it. And then someone hands you a pair of pants, and they're amazing. Oh my gosh. Like, there are so much in the world we can't figure out, but we can figure out pants like that is really not that difficult. So I loved, I loved women in that age category who have gone through changes in life and their bodies. You know, we don't really recognize them as much, and the trends seem to be for women who have much more exciting lives or are much younger, like I really love that age of women just being able to sort of give herself back to her, yeah, and yeah, that's what she goes did? I

08:42
think it's interesting, isn't it? Because so many people think it's just close, but we know it's not right. That's in my job. It's all this clutter, and we're like, we know it's not the clutter, it's how it makes you feel and how you can change that when you you know, put your mind to it, and how wonderful the feeling is that you get in yourself and in your home and in your mind and in your body. And it's the same with clothes, because it's a big part. Getting dressed is a big part of our day. And I think how we dress shows how we feel. And you know how how different it can be if you have clothes that you love wearing, it's massive difference.

09:25
I always say I don't love clothes as much as I love what clothes do for women. Yeah, you know, my closet is not full of designer labels. It's not massive. I'm not a minimalist. I don't need a ton of stuff, so I don't have a ton of stuff, but what I have makes me feel good. What I have makes me feel like the person I want to be that day. You know, I you can dress yourself into a better day. You can dress yourself into a promotion at work. You can dress yourself into being more athletic, more fit, more, you know, organized. You can dress yourself into all of those things. It's just being intentional. And you know that. It starts. It starts in your closet. Like you said, getting dressed every day can really set the tone, but it is your closet that's sort of that make or break moment. Yeah,

10:09
yeah. So, okay. So lady comes, you know, to you, and says, right, I need help. Jennifer, so what is your process? I think I've read somewhere that you have a three step process. So walk us through it.

10:25
So the three step process for cleaning out a closet that I use with all my clients, actually, I want to back up real quick, yeah. And I want to talk about why the closet is that make or break moment? Okay, right? We get dressed, most of us in the morning, yeah. So you open those closet doors, and you are determining how the next 10 minutes is going to go, but that 10 minutes is going to determine how the rest of your day is going to go. When you open your closet doors, you step into that closet and you step into chaos. That's how your day is going to start. Right? That's when you are going to spill your coffee on your shirt before you leave. It's when you're going to lose your keys hit all the red lights like that is setting the tone. It just is sort of this domino effect for the day. Yeah, on the other hand, when you open your closet and it's organized and it's clean and you love what's in there, and everything fits you and flatters you and makes you feel good that is setting you up for the rest of the day. And a lot of women just look at their closets like a holding space. You know, the first thing I do, and we'll talk about this in step one, is we clear out the the clutter, the noise, the junk, the dry cleaning bags, the empty shoe boxes, the, you know, the pillows that got stuffed in, all of those things that are not your wardrobe. Need to get out of there so you can see what you have. And the other mindset shift I want women to really think about is that your wardrobe is not all the clothes you own. Your wardrobe is all the clothes you can and do wear. So I could step into, I don't know, Baby Gap and buy the entire store and put it in my closet. I don't have a wardrobe. I don't have anything to wear. Yeah, and a lot of women are hanging on to all of these clothes, and they go, I have so much stuff. Why can't I get dressed? Because you really have to know what your wardrobe is, what are the actual choices, and that is a big reason for cleaning out the closet is to see what your wardrobe actually is. And a lot of women don't give themselves permission to shop and solve the problem, because they see all these clothes, and they go, I have to have something to wear. Look at that. I have 50 pairs of pants. Well, if you have two that fit you, you really don't have too many clothes, right? So we really have to focus on what is that wardrobe? The rest of it is they're closed. They're not a part of your wardrobe. So when we talk about my three step process, my first one is just clearing out the clutter. And we're going to talk about how I organize closets on, I think, a little bit later, but we organize the closet what I like to call the everyday style way. And then without trying anything on, we turn off our thinking brain, right? And we kind of go into autopilot, and we get rid of the things we know we need to get rid of. That pair of I actually have a pair of shorts that got a weird stain in the laundry. I don't know what happened, and and for months they've been hanging in my closet. And I say, I'm going to die. I'm going to die. I'm I'm going to die. No, I'm not. We're going to get rid of those. You're going to get rid of anything that you know you're not going to wear, anything that is beyond repair, or what you're willing to do, anything, anything that you just know needs to go yeah, we're not going to turn hangers around. We're not going to overcomplicate it. We are just going to clear the clutter. We're going to get rid of trash. We're going to get rid of non seasonal items, if you don't store them in your closet. We're going to get rid of all that stuff. The goal is to see what your wardrobe is. And then step two is what I like to call the meat and potatoes. This is the heavy lifting. This is where, when you are editing your closet, you try on everything you own. Now I know there are organizers who encourage you to take everything out of your closet, put on your bed. For someone like me, that is a recipe for sleeping on the floor or throwing all my clothes on the floor. I don't encourage people to do that. I encourage women to take it section by section. So we are going to try on all the tops together. And this makes it very easy, because if you can't tackle it all in one day, just try on tops today. Just try on pants today. Just try on skirts or dresses or whatever it is. Just put it in chunks. But if it made it past step one, it has to be tried on in step two, right? A lot of women, I say, Well, I like it, but it doesn't fit me. Clothes that don't fit you need to try on anyway, and you need to try them on for a couple of reasons. Number one, how far is it from fitting a lot of us, when our body shifts a little bit, we think, Oh, this stuff doesn't fit me. And just mentally, we put it a. Side. We don't ever really put it on our body. I've had so many clients and I say, Nope, try them on, and they put, oh, it fits. Yeah, right, because our bodies don't change as much as our minds do. Yeah. You know our mind, she's the liar. We need to actually put it on our body. But if it doesn't fit, how far are you from fitting into that? And do you want to do, or are you actively doing what you would need to do to get into that? If you have these tiny, tiny, tiny, little shorts that you've been hanging on to since you know, you were 21 years old, do you want to do what it would take to get back into them? Yeah. If the answer is no, you can just let them go. You can let them go, yeah. So we try on absolutely everything. And then step three is sort of the long term. I'm never around for this process, because it is the long term, just pruning of your wardrobe. And I keep a small clothes basket on the floor of my closet. And every morning, when I'm flipping through deciding what to wear, if I just come across something, I'm like, I'm over that. I put it in the basket. At the end of the season, if I haven't reached for it, if I'm not going to miss it, I donate the basket. I get rid of the basket, but it's just sort of this ongoing thing so you never have to do that step two. Step two is hard. I encourage women to set a timer for step one. Get it done in 20 minutes or less. Step two can take hours depending on how many clothes you have. And then step three is the thing that makes sure you never have to do step two again, or you don't have to do it for a very long time.

16:24
We are so aligned. It's, it's wonderful. It was everything what you say completely aligns with what we say as well that you know that lots of stuff ends up in colossal wardrobes. You're like, that's not even close. What's it doing here? It needs to get, at least to leave all the trash, the rubbish needs to go, and indeed, then taking it category by category, because you cannot, you know, you know, if the houses here in the UK are overall a lot smaller than what you guys have in the US, so you can actually do like a two door wardrobe. You can take everything out but closet. I lived in the US, so I know what you mean. Guys. Me with closets, whole different ballgame. You have to do it section by section. But even, even if you've got a two or three door wardrobe and you still find it too overwhelming, I agree with Jennifer, you have to do it category, category. You know, look at the trousers one day, and then the T shirts, and then the lovely shirts, and then the jackets, and then the skirts and then the dresses, because it you need to have that faced approach, and indeed, trying on is is a really important part as well, of realizing because it might indeed fit, or you might think, oh my gosh, I love this dress. And then you've got it on, and it's like, oh, actually, this doesn't really look good at all anymore. It's not my taste anymore. I don't like it anymore. The fit's wrong, like you say, our bodies change all the time. And then, of course, step number three, that maintenance is crucial. Esty, and I talk about that all the time. You need to keep, you know, a little bit slowly but surely. You know, when you're doing your laundry and you see something with a massive hole, don't put it back in your wardrobe. It needs to be taken, filtered out immediately. Or if it's a dry cleaning one, do you still want to do that? If you absolutely don't like ironing at all, why do you get hold of that blouse that always needs to be ironed? And you're like, it's like, the chore I just is on the bottom of my list. You know, make a decision. I'm going to have a dry, cleaned an iron or no longer part of my life. I can't do ironing. It's gotta go so fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. I love it. Now, let's talk about photo. And I don't mean photo of taking a picture on your phone, but you've got another word for that, haven't you? Anne,

18:42
I do. It's kind of like FOMO, right? Which we all know, which is fear of missing out. This is photo fear of throwing out. And it's so funny. We're talking about this. A member of my community just posted a funny little, I don't know, reel or Tiktok in our community group. And she said, I thought of you when I saw this, and it was a woman going through a closet, and she's pulling out a dress. And she said, Oh, maybe I'll wear this if I ever get pregnant and decide to sew my own clothes. Or maybe I'll wear this, you know, just all of these, like random scenarios that we come up with for hanging on to clothes. And we go through our wardrobes and we have such good intentions, right? Even when we say I'm going to be ruthless, I'm going to get rid of all the things I'm not wearing, I just want to start from scratch. I've heard that a million times. And then you get into the closet, the woman is like, Well, I mean, maybe if it's really cold, if it's really cold, I'll want to wear that sweater. There There will never be a day you want to wear an itchy sweater from 1985 right? Like fabrics have come so far, yeah, that you don't have to be uncomfortable anymore. I And that whole thing about I'm going to wear it when it's cold. I live in a very cold place. What I can tell you is we have heat, you know, heat we have, and there's. Never a day where I want to put on clothes that make me feel bad, both emotionally, physically, whatever. I will never choose that option. I will choose a sweatshirt that I think is cute. There's never these clothing emergencies that we're saving things for never materialize. That's the first thing you need to know there is no wardrobe disaster that is going to clear out every single thing in your wardrobe except the clothes you hate and are saving for someday, right? That's not going to happen. But photo is actually much deeper than this, and photo happens because we don't know who we're putting clothes in the closet for. We don't know who we are. We, and I will blame clearance racks on this forever and ever and ever, because we go and you head to the back of the shop, and you're going through the sales, the deals, the clearance, and you think, Oh, that blouse is cute for 20 bucks. Why not? But if it's not your style, you're never, ever, ever going to wear it. And then every time you go past it in the closet, it probably still has tags on it, you're going to go but it's cute, maybe someday I'll wear it, but if it's not who you are, you're never going to wear it. So really, the secret to to ending photo is understanding how you want to look, so you can put the right pieces in there. And I call these things. I have my clients pick three words, and they're called style guide posts. And I think of them as like little words on an arrow sign going down a path, and they're pointing you in the right direction. And my words, just an example, are current, polished and fun. So I encourage women to pick three words that describe how they want to look, not how you want to feel. So comfortable is not a style guide post, because if someone comes up to you and they say, Oh, you look so comfortable, you're probably wearing sweatpants or pajamas, right? That's probably not we want to feel comfortable, but do we want to look comfortable? So I have women choose these three words, these style guide posts, like I said mine, are current, polished and fun. Then when you are going through the clearance rack and you find that, I don't know frilly lace blouse, I can say, is this current, polished and fun? If it's not, I don't care if it's $20 Don't, don't buy it. It's a waste of $20 and then if you go to your closet and you're using your words, you can flip through and you see, I hung on to a very serious black suit, right? Sort of the corporate interview suit that every woman has to have when she's in her 20s and trying to climb the corporate ladder. I hung onto that thing for a very long time. It's not current, polished or fun, right? Maybe it's polished, but it's not fun. So now I have suits that are current, polished and fun that I do wear, that I will wear, that I want to wear. So the secret of eliminating photo is putting the right things in in the first place.

22:59
And do you look at style and color and fit and all of those things when you're trying to help women decide what fits with them. Do you do like a color analysis or to figure out what colors they love? Or do you look at their shapes

23:19
to see that? I do that I do so another problem that leads to closet chaos is that women solve their style challenges first by shopping. Yeah, I don't have anything to wear. Let me go shopping. Yeah, I want to uplevel my style. Let me go shopping. That shopping building your wardrobe is actually the end stage of style. It is not where style starts. The first thing I have clients do, first of all, we get your mind right about style. Why does it matter to you? Does it matter to you? Do you have any blocks that are keeping you from having style? You know, maybe your mom and I've heard lots of stories about mothers putting these things that just stick in our heads. Right about don't buy nice things or, you know, whatever it is, yeah, we clear some of that stuff out. And then we decide how do you want to look? We choose those three words. Then we talk about your body, your personal characteristics, you know, and body shape advice for a very long time has come from this place of your body is wrong. So you can't wear these styles. I think that's a terrible way to look at our bodies. I think it's just awful. What if instead we said, I want to celebrate or highlight these parts of my body, these I don't love as much. Let's camouflage them a little bit. That's it. That's what body dressing. Your body shape can be. And we can take out a lot of the emotion and guilt about having to wear certain styles to cover up our imperfections. Yeah. So once we know what our style is, and then we figure out what styles look best on us, what makes us feel the best, then we can start shopping. Personally, I do not do color analysis. It is not a gift that I have, and I think it's very important to recognize the. Gifts you have, and don't, you know, you can put a color drape on me and be like, do you see the difference? No, not really. I mean, you know, I know my best, I know my worst, but I have people that I refer out to, yeah, who that's their specialty. I'll do what I do. They can do what they do. Once, you know all of those, then you go shopping, yeah, that's when you go shopping. And then we cut out all of the shopping mistakes, the style mistakes, the wasted money, the, you know, impulse purchases, the emergency shopping, right? That that moment when you're standing there and you think, I have nothing to wear to this event, I will pay anything as long as I'm not naked, like that's the only thing that matters. Yeah, those things never turn out to be pieces you love to wear, but we often spend more money on them than anything else in our wardrobe. Yeah, because we are willing to spend whatever it takes just not to be naked. So if you follow that path, and you look at shopping as the end point, and not the starting. Everything gets easier. Closet gets cleaner. You buy a whole lot less, and you wear more of what you have. And that's really the goal, is to wear more of what you have. Yeah, yeah.

26:13
I loving our conversation so far. Jennifer, let's go for a break, because I think our listeners are probably gonna go, oh, I have so many questions, and I do too, so let's go for a break and we'll see you soon. Hi everyone. Welcome back. I'm chatting to Jennifer Mackey, Mary from everyday style, and she's already given us so much good stuff before the break, so I can't wait to continue our conversation. And we were talking, how important is that shopping is the end line. And again, that aligns so much with what Lesley and I are saying. It's the same thing when you've got clutter in your house, we say, don't start off with what kind of storage do I need to buy? You first need to declutter. You need to decide where the items are going to go. Find a good place for it so you can find it when you want to look for it, then you can use a temporary even you can use temporary storage, like a shoebox, to learn containerization. And then once things start to fall into place, then you go out and go, Okay, now I would like to get some nice baskets. I need to get some better containers. I need to get some better boxes. Last step, not first step. So loving what you're telling us as well here about shopping was very, very similar, right? We feel, you know, a bit down. You know, shopping can cheer you up, because it's that great dopamine hate, isn't it, of going around and being in a shop, so to know exactly how to dress it nicely on the on the mannequins, and there's nice music and there's nice smells, and the shops knows exactly how to tempt us to part with our hard earned cash. And we fall, fall fall prey to that, and we need to really go shopping, either with a list or with a plan and know what we're looking for, and because otherwise we keep buying the same thing over and over and over again. Yes,

28:02
to that point, a really good trick is to know the general categories that you need in your wardrobe. I am always on the hunt for tops that are comfortable to wear a lot while working in my home office every day, but also look good on camera. So if I want to pop into my group and do a quick video, if I want to, you know, do a piece of social content that I'm ready. So I always have that in my head. And if you need more guidance, you can put a little list in your phone. I need jeans, I need, you know, this specific category. And then if you want to go shopping, because I do get that, it is pleasurable and it is fun, you're at least getting closer. It's not just, Oh, that's cute. Oh, that's cute. What happens when we just do the recreational just funsies shopping, we buy tops. We just buy tops. Nobody goes recreational shopping and buys that perfect pair of black pants that probably cost more than you'd like to spend, but make your butt look like a million bucks and we'll solve all your wardrobe challenges. Those are never bought randomly. Yeah, so you just normally add to your chaos. Completely

29:07
true. I once did a wardrobe with a client, and she had 57 pairs of jeans, and I think, like, 52 of them still had the tag zone. And I'm like, What's going on here? She's like, well, I go out for in during the day, when I'm at work, we've got these little, little shopping center clothes, and I go out and I think, oh, I don't have, I can't I can never find the right pair of jeans. And I looked at all the tags, and I'm like, because all your jeans are between 15 and $20 or pounds, right? And I said, you need to buy a more expensive one and go to a proper Jean shop and tell them what you're looking for, and you need to take an hour and a half to find the right pair of jeans, and not make it a five minute. I'm out for lunch, and let me just quickly buy something, she said, but I can't afford a $75 pair of jeans and I'm on but you got 52 pairs worth 15 pound each. That. Is like 10 nice pairs of G, yeah. So I think it's all about changing the way you look at shopping and clothes that the things if you buy better, it lasts longer you feel better in it. So I hear you,

30:14
I think it's actually gotten hard to buy better, though, yeah, like, you really have to spend a lot of money to buy better. Yeah, it's not just, you know, I don't know if your listeners know target. You can go to target, you can buy a pair of jeans for $30 or whatever. Or you can go to the mall and just buy, you know, one of the regular retail shops, pair of jeans for $90 the quality isn't that different. Yeah, when we're talking quality, you have to really, really, really try and really, really, really invest. And I encourage women to buy quality on the bottom. Yeah, because we don't want to go and spend an hour and a half trying to find one pair of jeans. We don't want to do that over and over again. Tops are easy. Tops are fun. Those are the things you can and they change styles so much more frequently that you're going to want to switch them out every couple seasons. You're going to want something new. You're going to get tired of that look. Don't worry as much about quality on the top, but on the bottom, that's where you should be spending your time, your money, your energy, your shopping, really digging into finding the best bottoms you can. I

31:18
completely agree. Let's go back to that wardrobe. So yeah, we've emptied it, we've decluttered it, we've tried stuff on. We are doing maintenance. So how do we organize now this wardrobe so we have less stress in the morning because we running around, we need to get ready. What's the best way, in your opinion? What's the best way to organize it?

31:38
So this is actually something I have my clients do before they even do that step one. This is a pre step, and it is Organize Your Closet the everyday style way, which is like items together, all sleeveless tops together, every cap sleeve together, short sleeve, long so sleeves by descending order. Dresses you can do by Hem length or sleeve length, pants by Hem length, skirt by Hem length. But put them all together, a lot of women organize their closets in two ways, and you know, you have to find what works for you. But the two big ways women organize their closets, one is by color, and two is by activity, right? So we have our week, our workwear here, our weekend over here, and and I'm going to tell you why both of them are a little problematic by color. We don't get dressed in the morning. We don't wake up and say, I have to wear green today. We get dressed by weather and activity. Yeah, you wake up and it's going to be really hot. Well, then you're going to want something sleeveless or short sleeve. And when they're all broken up into the different colors, you have to flip through every single color category to find what you're looking for, and then you have to compare what was in the yellows to what's in the blues and decide that. And there's just a lot of wasted time and energy and effort. When you organize it by item type, you see all your sleeveless, all your short sleeve, there you go. Boom, done. Now, organizing by activity means that you have a bigger wardrobe than you really need to have. I was working with a client last week, and she had this, trying to put together a kind of a casual, smart casual outfit. And I said, oh, we need, you know, like a white underpinning a tank or a tee or something. And she said, Oh, I have one in my work section. Could I use that? Yes, girl, you could use that. It is the perfect thing that to go under this, you know, birthday party outfit or whatever. But when we start to look at closes, they can only go here, or it can only go here, you're going to end up buying twice as much, and I have had clients who have two of the exact same thing, one in their weekend, one in their workwear. Why? Why you could? Nobody's going to know. It's fine. It's fine. You can wear them. So really, when you organize by item type, it is so much more efficient, both in the time it takes you to get dressed every day, and in the money you're spending on your wardrobe and what your wardrobe can do, most of us are living much more casual lives than we used to. Yeah. So this idea of having a completely separate wardrobe that only goes to work and can't be used anywhere else for a lot of us, is sort of a dated idea where you could wear that cardigan on the weekend and then pair it with a pair of trousers. You could use that that tank under a blazer or under, you know, a hoodie, whatever it is, yeah. So it's really about setting your closet up to go in there be able to see what you have. It's still esthetically pleasing. I know the color people love the color thing because it is so esthetically pleasing. I get it. It looks lovely, but it's slowing you down. It's slowing you down big time. Yeah, I

34:48
hear you. I'm I'm with you. I mean, I'm into Jennifer team, because I also organized sleeveless, shorter sleeves, all of that, and then all the trousers together, all the jackets together. Because it works for me. So now you were talking about kind of work and activity kind of things. How do you feel about organizing by season? So like that is very cold, and I think

35:16
that depends on a couple of things. Number one, what your personal weather looks like, yeah, I live, I live in Minnesota, which is in the middle of the country, you know, I can drive to Canada from my house. I have extreme cold and we have extreme heat, yeah? So I have a four season wardrobe. A lot of people have kind of a three season or a two season. So, you know, I probably have more clothes than the average person, because I need them all. Yeah. So that's one thing. And then the other thing is, what is your closet space look like? One of my goals. So we moved into this house six years ago. I came from a house where I had my own walk in closet, my own very big walk in closet, where I could store absolutely everything. I never had to worry about changing things out, and now I share a small walk in closet with my husband. My Space was probably cut down to 20% of what I had before. My goal over the last few years is to be able to get all of my clothes into one closet. So the first thing I did is I reorganized it. I added more hanging, I added some shelves, that kind of thing, and then I started really to get rid of things, because I the management of clothes is exhausting. In the beginning, it was taking a full day to truly change my closet over. And, you know, it was pulling things out of storage bins, and then you have to rehang them. And I don't want to, I do clothes for a living, and I don't want to manage clothes that much. So it really depends on what is your storage space, how big is your wardrobe, and what do you need? And one problem a lot of people have when they have to change out seasons is you forget the things you have. Yeah, right. So I would come down in, I have a little closet in my office here, and I would pull out, say, my fall things, or my winter things, and go, I forgot I have that. Oh, I would. I wish I would have been wearing that all season. So you kind of forget about stuff when it's not front and center. So I encourage women to get as much as you can into the space you have that doesn't have to change. Now I am down to pulling out some really heavy blazers and jackets, yeah, you know, and some sequin pieces and things like that that are definitely winter holiday things like that. I'm not going to wear them in the summertime. Those I will put in my office closet, and then I'll trade out, you know, maybe the lightest of linens, the breeziest of dresses. That's it. But it really depends on how much you have and how much space you have. Yeah,

37:43
exactly. That's why, you know Lesley and I talk all the time about you can't do a one size fits all, because it depends on your home, it depends on your space, it depends on your lifestyle. It depends on Indeed, are you at work? Are you at home? Do you need to dress up for events all the time and all it's so individual, and I think that makes it so interesting as well.

38:06
Yeah, it also makes it really difficult to both give and take style advice, because, you know, and you probably know this, you you put your idea out on the internet, and you can't share every single contingency. You can't say, oh, unless it's this, unless it's that, and there's just as listeners, as consumers, we have to go, Okay, I'm going to pull this, because that works for me, but that doesn't work for my situation. And yeah, I know I know me listening to other experts. I want like that. Just easy solution. Just tell me what to do, tell me how to organize that. Just I don't want to think about tell me how to organize that. But the problem is, when we get information like that, and we don't spend the time or energy learning our own unique situations and needs and, you know, desires, it's kind of it never really works out. It's always like, well, it doesn't really fit here, but you're trying to make it work. And I believe in your solutions should make things easier. Yeah, it should make it easier. And one thing I have heard so many women say over the years is they want one wardrobe that can go everywhere. That's the goal, one wardrobe that can go everywhere. And I had a client years ago, and that was her goal. That's why she hired me. So I went to her house during the week. She was the marketing vice president for an internet company. Like, this was a big job. Yeah, this was not, you know, wear your sweatpants to work. Kind of job. This was suits on the weekend. She and her husband owned a small farm, and she wanted one wardrobe that went everywhere, and I thought, well, there is no wardrobe that you can wear to feed your goats that you can wear into your meetings. Yeah, your goals have to be realistic. They have to really serve your life. And this woman had spent years trying to find the right pieces that could go. Everywhere. And I was just like, Stop, yeah, I'll solve your problem right now by just telling you to stop. That's yeah, it's not a goal that can really happen, and if you're working so hard for that, what if we just had a tiny little part of your wardrobe that you wore to feed the goats? What if we just did that? Yeah, she's like, Oh, that's so much easier. Yeah, yeah,

40:21
yeah.

40:22
The one size fits all. Approach just doesn't it doesn't fit anybody.

40:26
I agree. I agree. So do you how I want to know this as well. Are you somebody who likes to hang their clothes for hangers, or do you? Are you a folding person?

40:38
I am an out of sight, out of mind. If I put it in a drawer, it will be forgotten about and never, ever, ever worn. I have to put things in drawers that I need to go get. Yeah, right. I need my pajamas. I will go get them out of Yeah, I need workout clothes. I will go get them out of there. I need bras and underwear and socks. I will go get them. Everything else, clothes, T shirts, I hang every single thing I possibly can. You know, thick sweaters, I don't fine knits. I I fold over a hanger. You know, I'm very I do like to take good care of my clothes, but if I can put it on a hanger, I'm putting it on a hanger because I just forget about it. And I know there are people who are the total opposite, and that's that's great. That's just not it's not me. I would that would, I would waste so much money on clothes that just got shoved in the back of a drawer and never, never seen again.

41:31
I think that's nice as well, because I'm a folder, and I have a lot of shelves and drawers so and I love to fold, and it doesn't bother me, but Lesley is definitely a I need to have everything on hangers kind of person, because she wants to see it. She's got lots of, she's got a kind of, she's got a larger closet, kind of walking wardrobe kind of idea. So she's got a lot more space as well, and more clothes than I do. So but she's, I just can't, I don't have the patience to to fold stuff neatly as you do. So again, it's an individual choice as well. So it's nice to hear that Lesley will be pleased to hear that you're a hanger as well. I'm

42:06
a hanger. Yeah, I admire folders. Now, do you do the little file folding? Do you know what that is? Yes, so I rather than stacking you put them so when you open a drawer, you see them all. That's what I used to do for my girls when they were little. And I would, you know, put their little T shirts and sweatshirts and things they could get themselves dressed without pulling one out of the box, yes, wrecking the whole pile. Yeah,

42:29
yeah, yeah. I do that with my husband's T shirts. They all are, like, very nicely, because I fold everything the same size. So then it works. But I don't mind it. I'm meticulous like that, and it works for me, but I can completely understand people who are a fan of hanging so Okay, couple of more questions, and the time is just whizzing by, and I'm absolutely loving this. So what mistake Do you see people make when they clear out their clothes and their closets?

42:57
So many, so many we've already talked about, a lot of them? First big mistake is not doing it ever. Yeah. So many women just feel like it's too hard, can't face it, but then they just keep adding things, yeah, and making the problem worse, yeah? So that's probably the biggest one. Is not doing it often enough or a thorough enough job. Yeah, it is not trying things on, yeah, even if you know you love it. I have people try on things by category, because when you're trying them all on together, it also gets easier to see what's good and what's not. Yeah, you put on a blush. Oh, that's cute. But then you put on the next one. You're like, Oh no, this is way cute, you know, you kind of go back and say, maybe that's not so great. You compare like to like. So I do think that trying to tackle it all at once, for most people, is just so overwhelming, and you get fatigued. It is hard work. It is hard work. So by the end, you just think, oh, good enough. I don't care. Just I'll keep it all, and you've invested all this time, but you haven't really done the solution. Yeah, and I do think that getting rid of that idea that I'm going to need this someday, that hanging on to those things for that someday, I from the beginning of my career, I have bet anybody a million dollars if they can find me a legitimate calendar with someday.

44:24
Yeah, someday is not a day of doing

44:27
not on the calendar. There is no someday on the calendar. And I always tell women the best day to clear out your closet. You know, that day where you have to do laundry because you've got nothing to wear? Yeah, where you are struggling to get dressed because you've got nothing to wear because everything is dirty. Everything is dirty and you need to do laundry. That's the thing you go in your closet, because, you know what's left in there, all the things you could be wearing, but don't want to Yeah,

44:50
yeah,

44:52
I love it. That's what's left.

44:53
I love it. You know, I

44:54
had to do laundry the other day. I was like, I don't have any t shirts. I don't have anything casual. Got back from some trips, and. Just hadn't caught up yet. I went in my closet, there was a stack of T shirts and tanks that, you know what, I just don't want to wear. I got rid of them.

45:06
Yeah, yeah. So lastly, then getting rid of the closure, letting go of the clothes. Do you have to have? You found the perfect place to do that. How do you responsibly let go of all these things? Because, you know, especially that first clear out when the wardrobes and closets are bursting, it's maybe going to be five massive bags full of stuff.

45:31
I had someone in our community get rid of 27 bags of clothes. And we're not talking like little bags. We're talking big bags, wow. And good for her for doing it. Yeah? So the first step to getting rid of things responsibly is not buying irresponsibly. You don't have to get rid of what you didn't buy. Stop buying multiples. They don't solve your problem. If you like your T shirt, get it in two colors. Max. You don't need it in 10. Yeah. Don't do that. Getting rid of things in a timely manner is also very important to getting rid of things responsibly. Because if your things are still current, you could sell them. You could bring them to a consignment shop. You can put them in a wherever it is you. You send them to Poshmark Mercari, all at the right up, all these, these sites that will resell your clothes. However, if they're really dated and you kept them because, oh, I spent so much money on these skinny jeans I don't want to get well. Now skinny jeans are out. Nobody wants them. Yeah, so it doesn't matter how much you spent on those jeans that you weren't wearing, they're worth nothing now. So if you want to sell things, if you want to recoup some of that money, you have to do it early, while it's still current. And everybody has to understand that there are way there is so much more unwanted clothing than there are people who want, yeah, your unwanted clothing. Clothing, as expensive as it seems, is actually cheaper right now than any point in history. Yeah, and yet we have something like five to 10 times as much as women did in the 1950s It is insane, how much we have. So get rid of it early. Understand that people don't want your things. Donating your clothes for most for eight This is an actual statistic. 85% of donated clothes will end up in landfills. So if you are donating it to whatever charity organization, because you don't want to throw it away, they're just going to throw it away, or they are going to ship it somewhere else in the world that is then going to show it throw it away. I don't know if you have seen the photos of the beach in Accra, Ghana, yeah, where the clothes are eight feet high? Yeah, they are lining the sea floor. Like we gotta stop this. We gotta stop this. So the very best thing to do is textile recycling. And I think it's unfortunate, because, as I've seen over the last I've been a big textile recycler for years and years, I've seen programs go more go away than more have come on the scene like they have diminished in in number, and it's harder to do. However, there are organizations, and you know, since your podcast is all around the world, it's you have to just Google it and find one in your area. If you're in the United States, there's trashy.io and you buy these huge bags, and you can send anything back. You can send fabric scraps, you can send shoes. You can send, you know, all the clothes that aren't good enough to sell or give your sister or whatever. You can send them all, and they will make sure that they are recycled responsibly. And then you actually get credits on different websites, and you can get discounts on new clothes and whatever it is you want to buy. So looking into textile recycling is so important to make sure that we are not just destroying the earth with clothes that we didn't like to begin

48:52
with. Yeah. Oh, I hear you. I so agree with you. It's so important. We always talk about buy shop less, buy better. You know, go out with a list. Don't randomly, just buy this, that and the other, because you will save money and time and energy, but also, indeed, it's so much better for the planet. I've loved everything about this. Bob, so enjoy talking to you. Jennifer, thank you so much for your time. Where do people if they want to know more about you, what is the best way for people to reach out to you? I'm sure you're on socials and Instagram. What's the best place to find you?

49:28
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. This was such a fun conversation. I love love, love talking about this topic. You can find me. You can go to my website, which is your everyday style.com y, o, u, r, everydaystyle.com you can find me on Facebook and Instagram. Everyday style with Jen. And my podcast is called the everyday style school, and it is everything your mom never told you about getting dressed.

49:53
Well, there you go, listeners. Um, has anything that Jennifer said resonated with you as well? I know. So much of her messaging realigns exactly with what Lesley and I talk about all the time as well on our podcast, in our membership, but it's just it feels very validating to to kind of go, yes, we do this too, Jennifer, we're we're completely aligned here, which is lovely, and I hope listeners that you enjoyed this conversation as well. So thank you again, Jennifer, for being here. Really, really appreciate it, and listeners will see you next week. Thanks for being here.

50:32
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Natalia says:

23 October 2024 at 3:00 PM

This was such a great episode! I loved Jennifer’s point about how much mental energy gets tied up in a cluttered wardrobe—it’s so true that opening a chaotic closet can completely set the wrong tone for the day. Her suggestion to organize by item type instead of color or activity makes so much sense, too. It’s not something I would’ve thought of, but it’s such a practical way to streamline the morning routine!

I’d love to know—when you both talk about trying on every single item, did you ever have clients who were resistant to that? I imagine it’s easy to get overwhelmed, especially with a larger wardrobe. How do you help someone push through that part of the process? Would love to hear more about how you handle those situations!

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  23 October 2024 at 4:06 PM
  
  Hi Natalia, when I'm working with clients I don't let them try on every item, since I'm focused on what we are keeping and what is going and there is only a small pile of "not sure" items that then can be tried on by the client during or after the decluttering session. Jennifer is a wardrobe stylist so she looks at what the clients fit well, what colours suit, etc. So we have a different, but similar way of helping. Hope that makes sense.
  
  Reply
  1. Natalia says:
    
    24 October 2024 at 1:17 AM
    
    Thanks so much for quick reply, Ingrid! That totally makes sense—having a “not sure” pile seems like a great way to streamline things and keep the process moving. I imagine it helps people avoid getting stuck on too many decisions in the moment!
    
    Sorry for bothering you, but I have another question. When you work with clients, do you find that certain categories of clothing (like sentimental pieces or expensive items) are harder for people to let go of? How do you help them work through those emotions? It must be really rewarding when clients have that “lightbulb” moment and see the benefits of decluttering!
  2. Ingrid Jansen says:
    
    24 October 2024 at 10:22 AM
    
    Yes for sure. What I see a lot is the first time we do the wardrobe lots of “no-brainers” go out. Clothes that are worn out, have holes, don’t fit, wrong size, wrong colour, etc. Sentimental items of clothing or very expensive clothing normally doesn’t get decluttered the first time round and needs building up of the “decluttering muscle” before they are ready to look at these items.
Episode 310 – How to choose what to wear with Jennifer Mackey-Mary

Episode 341 – 10 things to consider when selling your house

Episode 340 – Tackling cardboard boxes – both empty and full

Episode 339 – A developing ADHD Journey with Lesley’s son, Luke

Episode 338 – 10 things you probably don’t know about Ingrid and Lesley

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