A photograph of a woman wearing glasses, smiling into the camera with a blue campervan in the background - guest Jen Gale discussing sustainability
Episode 126 – Sustainable(ish) with Guest Jen Gale

In this episode, Ingrid is talking to Jen Gale from Sustainable(ish).
Jen is an ordinary, knackered mum of two whose life changed when she dragged and cajoled the family into a year buying nothing new. That year changed not only what she buys, but also how she sees her place in the world. Jen recognised the power that we all have as individuals to make a difference to the things we care about, simply through getting informed about the impact of our daily choices, and figuring out easy swaps and changes.
She is the author of The Sustainable(ish) Living Guide and The Sustainable(ish) Guide to Green Parenting. The family are still (just about) talking to her and they live in Wiltshire where Jen writes and podcasts about all things Sustainable(ish).
Prefer to read rather than listen?
Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The declutter hub podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your hosts professional organisers, Ingrid Johnson, and Lesley Spellman.

Ingrid  0:35  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 126 of the declutter hub Podcast. I'm Ingrid. In today's episode, I'm talking to Jen Gail from sustainable ish. Jen is an ordinary nekkid mom of two, whose life changed when she dragged and cajoled the family into a year buying nothing new. That gear changes not only what she buys, but also how she sees her place in the world. And Jen recognise the power that we all have as individuals to make a difference to the things we care about, simply through getting informed about the impact of our daily choices, and figuring out easy swaps and changes. She is the author of the Sustainable Living Guide, and the sustainability guide to green parenting. The family are still just about talking to her. And they live in Wiltshire here in the UK, where Jen writes and podcasts about all things sustainable ish. Oh, my words, I'm going to trip over towards the state. I think a couple of times. Jen, welcome to the show.

Jen  1:39  
Thank you so much for having me.

Ingrid  1:41  
We are delighted that you're our guest on our show. And we know our listeners are going to be interested in this topic. Now I have prepared, I must admit extremely well, because I kind of spoke to you a little bit on your Facebook page and your Facebook group and your website, because I'm so interested in what you are having to tell us and I'm reading your book, I really was trying so hard to finish it before we had to record this podcast. But I'm about halfway through, but I just love everything about it. So let's get started, Jen. Okay, a year of buying nothing new. So can you take us back to the beginning and kind of explained to us? When was this? And why did you start this whole journey?

Jen  2:32  
It was quite a while ago now. So it was 2012 13 The kids were four and two, something like that. And I'm still not entirely sure why, why I decided we were gonna do it. It was definitely my idea. I was the driving force behind it. I read an article by a lady who'd done something similar, and she called it her second hand Safari. And I think I just thought, oh, that sounds like quite a fun challenge. I wonder if we could do that as well. And around the same time, I remember being in a shop with the kids, you know, and you know, one one in a buggy one kind of holding your hand and the eldest just in typical toddler, you know, wanted that wanted that one kid that wanted that, and just being like, Whoa, he's already tuned into this need for stuff this, you know, desire for new shiny things. And in hindsight, it was completely normal toddler behaviour. And I think all toddlers do it. And I'm not sure what the evolutionary advantages to it or whether it is a sort of societal thing. But I was quite sort of shocked by that. And that was really the start of it. So I sort of tentatively broached it with my husband who's quite used to me having lots of air quotes, amazing ideas that, you know, never really come to anything because I didn't get distracted. But so he sort of said, well, yes, yes, yes. And assumed, like forget about it, I think and then I didn't, so he kind of had to get on board.

Ingrid  3:50  
He was like, Oh, this idea actually stuck in your head. We're all we're up we are we all doing this? So did you kind of make a whole plan? Or did you just kind of stumble into the whole thing? Or was it like, okay, right, if I'm going to do this one to think this through? Or how does that go?

Jen  4:07  
Yeah, I'm not a great planner. I feel like so fraudulent being on a decluttering and organising podcasts. I'm one of the least nice people in the world. But I sort of read about it in the summer, I think. And I decided I wanted to do it, but couldn't possibly wait until New Year, which would have obviously been a sensible time to start. So I decided we were going to start first of September, did actually do a practice month in August without telling the rest of the family just to kind of see what kinds of things came up. And it was things like birthday parties and stuff. But you know, it was quite good to have kind of thought about that. I came up with some rules, so that we have some sort of boundaries. So we said we could buy food, we could buy toiletries, medicines, underwear, because I think most people would draw the line there for secondhand pants. And if something broke, when we needed a new part to fix it, it kind of made sense to do that. And also because the kids were so little at the time and I was worried about this feet, I didn't want them to sort of be cramming their little, you know, delicate feet into shoes that didn't fit. So we said we could buy them new shoes. But I think, you know, that's the beauty of, of that kind of challenge, whether you want to do it for a week or a month or a year, you can make it so that it's still a challenge, but it's something that will work for you and for your family.

Ingrid  5:19  
Yeah, yeah. Sounds like an amazing challenge. So did you think in the beginning, it was going to be mainly focused about clothes? Because I think when I hear your story, you think, Okay, I've made some exceptions like food, obviously. Medicines shoe. So did you think it was going to mainly close? Or did you already think, oh, there's going to be loads of other things that's going to be affected by this decision to do this four year?

Jen  5:46  
Yeah, I don't think I even really thought in that much depth about it. You know, the things that I wasn't expecting were the things like birthday presents and Christmas and things, which obviously, you know, Christmas is a massive consumer time of the year why that hadn't occurred to me. And I guess, you know, things for the kids, you don't want to toys and stuff like that. And I didn't want it to be about deprivation and sort of austerity and just saying no, a lot of the time to things. Whereas actually, you know, it was super easy to find the vast majority of things we wanted second hand, it might have taken a little bit longer. But once you start to look around, it's quite scary how much stuff already exists and is already out there without constant new stuff being bought into the world.

Ingrid  6:30  
Yeah. So you started blogging about your year? Because that's how it all started. Yeah, kind of what you're doing now. Started with the book, didn't it?

Jen  6:39  
Yeah. And, you know, I'm not particularly techie person. I used to be a vet. So I, you know, science background and things. But it really reignited, I guess a sort of love for writing that I hadn't even really appreciated was there. Again, I did it without even sort of thinking it through and thinking of what I was trying to achieve with the blog or anything like that, I think, you know, it was a very useful tool in terms of keeping me accountable and sort of keeping me going, I'm not sure if I would have stuck the year out, had I not had that sort of public, like, this is what we're going to do. But also, you know, found this whole community of people doing similar things caring about the same things that I did, you know, I couldn't find that locally to me, you know, like, I remember my dad going, why do you go into charity shops, like, it just wasn't part of the way we were brought up and things that you know, wasn't really part of, sort of friendship circles or anything like that. So it was quite a new thing for me and for us to be doing, but it just yeah, like I said, opened up this whole community, which social media gets a bad rap a lot of the time, but it can be such an amazing way of connecting with people all over the world, you know, and sharing a message and supporting each other.

Ingrid  7:51  
I know, I agree. I mean, that's what we're doing with the podcast, and our social media and our Facebook group as well. And we just love it that we bring together all these like minded people. And for you, I think it's people who want ALL THINGS sustainable for us, decluttering and organising. But there's so much overlap between them. That's why I was so excited about the recording this podcast as well, just for the listeners, that charity shop is thrift shop on shop. So I thought let me just remind everybody that we've we all use different terminology. So throughout the years you did your whole year you started your blog, but then lots of stuff has happened to you since has the website and your Facebook group. And so can you tell us a little bit about that? How did it kind of go to this next levels for you?

Jen  8:35  
It was really always been really organic. And, you know, I said when I started the blog, I sort of had didn't have really particularly in expectations of it. You know, obviously you always want your blog to be the number one blog and there's going to crash the internet, but that I would say yes to any opportunities that came up. So I actually approached our local radio station now County, sort of BBC Wiltshire radio station to go on there. And they said yes, and then it sort of spiralled. So we've got a reasonable amount of press. During that year, I was very active on Twitter, I was invited to do a TEDx talk, which was like my first ever public speaking experience, which was absolutely terrifying. And then it's just sort of carried on. The reason I started the Facebook group was because I was finding what I wanted on the page was for people to feel able to come and to ask questions or to share things that they don't I think there's something psychological there isn't there around, maybe people feel like that's my page and for me to almost broadcast information on maybe, whereas a group feels very different. And I'm sure you've probably found this with yours. And people are much more willing to come and be a part of a group and to ask questions and to help other people out and things and so that's why I started the group to provide that kind of community and that support and for people to have that space where they could come and share together.

Ingrid  9:51  
So after you're not buying anything new for a year, what were your next steps with your family then did you do a buy nothing at all year or Yeah, I can really kind of what are the changes that you've seen in your own house over the years after that first year? How did it kind of continue then within your family?

Jen  10:10  
Yeah, it's really interesting, because lots of people asked me as we were sort of coming up to the end of that year, our God, like, you know, what's the first thing you're going to go out and buy and what you know, and I'll say, actually, I can't unlearn everything I've learned over the year, like I said, at the start, it was quite a naive challenge, almost, I hadn't joined up the dots between the things we were buying and the people who were making it or where it was being made, or what was happening to it after we no longer wanted it. And bear in mind, this was, you know, eight years ago, this was before David Hanson was blue planet two, before all the plastic awareness, this was before Greta and the school strikes. And so climate change was being talked about a little bit, but certainly not in the same way it is now. But yeah, you can't kind of learn all that and join up all those dots and then rush out to Primark or h&m and go and fill your wardrobe up again, it totally does change your perspective on on the things that you're buying. I mean, I didn't buy any new clothes from the High Street. And I haven't actually I haven't bought any new clothes from the High Street. Since that year, I've have bought new clothes online from ethical retailers and things. But then I did a year buying no clothes at all, which I would say wasn't as fun. You just get very, very sick of the clothes that you have got. But again, you know, real kind of awareness of the fact that a lot of the time, it's not that we need new stuff, you know, there was nothing wrong with the clothes I was wearing after a year and most of it was just bought to the back teeth of it, you know, and I guess we have the luxury, most of us have been able to replace our clothes so much more regularly. So yeah, but you know, I had this again, this slightly naive idea that the kids would come out of this is really, you know, Auntie consumers and, and obviously, they were too little to even really know and have the same challenges as everybody else does with their kids wanting all the shiny new toys and that kind of thing.

Ingrid  11:59  
I think it's interesting, because when I picked up your book, what I really like is that you give a lot of information, but you're not like you have to do this. You have to that's what I think I like it's called Sustainable ish. Yes, you're trying your best you do what you can you're become more and more aware, over the years of everything that's going on and accepting the life. How do the products that we buy, get actually into our shops? And what happens to them once we don't want them anymore? What happens to all of these things? So can you maybe share some facts and figures about how much we throw away? Have you got maybe one or two steps for us?

Jen  12:42  
I mean, in terms of fashion, it's huge. And I can't remember, let me see if I can flick through. But the fashion industry, you know, we're all aware of the impact of things like aviation, but aviation, and this isn't saying, you know, giving up on permission to fly willy nilly aviation has about two to 4% of greenhouse gas emissions, the fashion industry has 10%, you know, so to put that in context, you really do see that there's a huge amount. And the problem is that, you know, this concept of fast fashion has only really been around since the 90s. You know, and I sort of think, I think the 90s was last week, do you know, like it doesn't, like 30 years ago, but it's only in that time that we've had sort of developed this concept of fast fashion and this idea of almost 52 seasons in a year. And there's just stuff being made and churned out and you know, there were literally, I can't remember, I can't flip to the page quickly enough. But like literally lorry loads of textiles, hitting landfill, like every single minute, pretty much like it is a huge problem. Even things like food waste, it's not necessarily the thing that we would declutter or anything like that. But you know, food waste is a huge issue 50% of food waste occurs in our homes. So you know, as consumers, and I hate to label people as consumers, because we're so much more than that, you know, we have a huge potential to make a difference to this by being more thoughtful about what we buy, and your end of it kind of how we dispose of it. But the thing that I found, and I'm not a declutter at all, I'm really all you know, you can you can see the background of where I'm sitting. But having gone through that really difficult, painful, hard process. Hopefully, at the end of that, you're then that much more aware of what you're bringing in, because you're like, God, I really don't wanna have to go through that again. So you're much more careful and aware of what you're then bringing into the house. So hopefully, going through that process helps us all be more thoughtful consumers.

Ingrid  14:32  
That is true. And that's what we see happening in our membership. Gen. The people who have taken a year's membership with us, and are going through the courses on decluttering. It's like, during that journey, that path they're on. The light bulbs are going off and they're like, Oh wow, because I'm working so hard on decluttering. I'm much more aware of what's coming into my house. We talk a lot about clutter blindness at the moment in our forum in our Inter We're looking at message boards, we've got our own forum in our membership. And clutter blind is a big thing at the moment where people say, The shelves are falling off my eyes, I see stuff that's probably been there for years, but I just stopped seeing. And then once you get that, you get the decluttering. And declutter becomes less than the home gets more peaceful. Now, I want to work far more on what's coming in? And do I actually need to do I want to do I'm not going to use it, I'm going to wear it, where's it come from? Where's it going? If it doesn't match with anything else, that I have? All of those things? So the flow of stuff that comes in, become smaller? Yeah, of course, I think a really good thing.

Jen  15:41  
And there's so many parallels there, with what you just said, I think people sort of journey into taking sort of eco action, or whatever you want to call it in that I think a lot of the time we have these shutters, or these, you know, we think that's not our problem to deal with. That's not something I can do anything about. And we subconsciously choose to sort of look away from it a little bit, and to not acknowledge it and to not see it. And then whatever triggers us to suddenly like No, actually, this is big, and I do need to try and do something about it. You know, I remember some like one of the members of my membership go, I want you to just run up and down the streets shouting at everyone and just Boris Johnson know about this, like, this is really important, why isn't he doing anything about it, you know, it's the same thing. And then you probably get the same feelings in decluttering, then of like, overwhelmed, like, Oh, crap, like, there is a lot of stuff here that I need to deal with. And that's exactly the same with looking at the climate crisis. And then you know, that feeling of empowerment when you do make a start, and it is all about making a start and making that first step, and then just, you know, following it, do one thing, the next thing, the next thing and keeping going and that feeling of empowerment, and I can make a difference to this. It's really interesting that parallels but

Ingrid  16:49  
yeah, I want to come back to this for a minute. But I just saw something on your website yesterday, which I loved. It was a quote, I don't know whose quote it was, but it says, we don't need a handful of people doing sustainable living perfectly. We need millions of people doing it imperfectly. Yeah. And he was like, my drop of like, this is like such a good quote. And it's the same what we say to our lovely members in our Facebook group as well. Don't think of decluttering as I have to do my whole house, just start with one thing. Yeah. And one thing leads to another and another and another and then you've done a drawer, and a drawer leads to a cupboard and a cupboard leads to the top cupboards in the kitchen. And then you dig your kitchen and you build it up. And I love that quote so much about Yes, it is about a small action, you don't have to go from nothing to I'm going to be a completely eco warrior overnight, it's not possible.

Jen  17:47  
And I think that's something that really puts a lot of people off. There's so many stereotypes around being green or eco friendly, you know, especially the sort of hippie eco warrior type. And a lot of people won't aspire to that it won't appeal to them. And this idea that you've got to go from where you are now you got to almost go from A to Zed. Well, no, actually, you don't you got to go from a to a point one. You don't have to do that. And I would love to take credit for that quote, as a brilliant blogger called Anne Marie Bono. She's the Zero Waste chef. And I kind of tinkered with it slightly, because she says we don't need a handful of people doing zero waste perfectly. We need millions doing it imperfectly. But you know, it's exactly the same principle. And, you know, I was thinking about this the other day, and I just thought it's this idea that, you know, you don't need to do something perfectly, but you do need to do something. Yeah, you know, like,

Ingrid  18:34  
Okay, so that's perfectly leads me into my question then. So most of our listeners are decluttering and organising. So where can they start? What can they do to be more sustainable? Where do you begin, do you recycling your toilet rolls for different

Jen  18:50  
people that will be different in like plastic is a great in for a lot of people because it's so visible, you know, like you unpack your supermarket shop, and you have the you know, to carrier bags full of plastic that you now got to kind of put in your landfill bin or deal with somehow. So that's very, very visible. And that can be a really easy in for people. But also, you know, I think supermarket food shop is probably one of the most difficult things to tackle in terms of plastic. So maybe then have it you know, plastic is something that you want to look at, have a look at your bathroom, because that's a much easier place to start. So either look at you know, shampoo bars, everybody bangs on about soap and shampoo bars. My confession is that we don't use them. We tried and tried and really struggled. So now we get big. I think they're five litre bottles of shampoo and handwash. And we fill our own bottles or if you're lucky, and you have a local zero waste or refill shop near you, you can use that. But yeah, I mean things that you might not even think about things like changing your energy supplier. I mean, that is a huge impact thing to do. Bulb, one of the renewable suppliers here in the UK reckon that you could cut your carbon footprint by a quarter, just doing that. And once it's done, it's done. You know, it's a boring thing that we put off and it sounds like it's going to be really onerous, but actually It can be done in 10 minutes. Like, it doesn't have to be really difficult. There's a great website called Big clean switch that you could go to, and it will put your villain you know, your latest villain. So it gives you an accurate quote, and then it will give you different quotes, when you pick the one you want. Like, literally, you know, you can do it in an outbreak. So that is like a really big impact thing to do. I mean, in terms of, you know, getting organised, I'm sure you probably have a unit on this in your membership, but information sort of IT organisation, you know, I had emails from 2010, you know, and all these emails, we don't sort of see where they're living, but they're living on these massive servers somewhere, probably out in a desert somewhere, or whatever. And they're taking up a huge amount of energy keeping those servers cool. So actually, you know, if we can go through and just do, I don't know, depends on when you got 50 A day, 100 a day, because you can do it while you're sat in front of the telly in the evening, you know, just be deleting some emails, that's a really nice, easy place to start.

Ingrid  20:51  
And there for example, if somebody's decluttering their kitchen or their clothes, are you really a big advocate of people bringing stuff to the charity shop and using things like freecycle, freegle and olio. And things like that, is that important?

Jen  21:06  
Definitely. Because you know, when we throw stuff away one, somebody in my membership said the thing that got her really thinking and kind of started on her journey was this phrase that there is no other way. You know, we're really lucky in the UK and that we have an infrastructure in place whereby we put our bins out the magical bin lorry comes and collects it and takes it away to the mystical land. And we never have to think about it again. But actually, everything we've ever thrown away is sat in some landfill somewhere or it's been burnt for energy. And when it goes to landfill, it just kind of sits there. We have this idea maybe that let in landfill things sit and they sort of rock down and create this lovely compost. They don't because there's not the right conditions. And it sort of ferments and it creates methane, which is a really potent greenhouse gas. So not only you getting that, that release of methane, also all that carbon, all that energy that's been used to make that thing to grow that thing, those raw materials to get it to the shops, that's all just completely wasted. It's all just gone. And so much of the stuff that we throw away, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just that, you know, we're bored with it, or we plant the redecoration or whatever. So making sure almost taking responsibility for those things. And it's our responsibility to rehome those things to pass on those things and to make sure that they stay in use. And I know it's not always the case. And you know, one of the things that really puts me off decluttering is this, you know, I hate putting things in the bin and I know there will be stuff that just has to go in the bin. So therefore I just ignore it, and I don't do it. And you know, the charity shop is a nice, easy or feels like a nice easy solution. Because it's almost this Get Out of Jail Free card, I've bought too much crap that I don't need any more. I'm giving it to the charity shop, they're earning some money from it, other people will be able to use it, I'm a really good person, I'll punish my home that went off I go. The problem is that because it's so easy, or there's a few problems, because it's so easy, it probably doesn't disincentivize us hugely from RE cluttering again, you know, because we haven't gone through a hugely painful process trying to get rid of it. The other problem is, especially when it comes to clothes, we have this idea that we donate it to our local Oxfam or whatever. And then Doris down the road goes into the local Oxfam and she likes it and she buys it. That only happens to 10 to 30% of our clothes, the rest can't be sold in store or can't be sold in the UK. And it's bagged up for the sort of textile trade, which is a billion dollar trade and sort of secondhand textiles. And it's shipped abroad, where it's causing huge problems. And in the same way we saw, I don't know if people remember sort of 2017 18 these sort of mountains of plastic being cumulated in China, where we're just shipping our plastic abroad out of sight out of mind. The same thing is happening with our textiles in Africa and in developing nations. And there's a video I think it was on ITV just mountains of rotten textiles there because they're just swamped as well. And they don't want our poor quality, fast fashion castoffs. So it's really difficult. And obviously, you know, again, if you donate something that's broken, they haven't got the resources to fit the charity shop haven't got the time of the volunteers, the resources to fix that. If you donate a jigsaw and it's got a missing piece that can't be used, if you donate a toy that's broken, you know, anything that you wouldn't buy, don't donate, because they can't use it. And all you're doing is cutting out the middleman and alleviating our own guilt and passing that guilt on to some poor volunteer at a charity shop, who's got to lug it all into their landfill bin. And obviously they have to pay for their landfill as well. Yeah. So if you are going to donate to charity, you know, do it really mindfully pick the best bits, and you pick the things that you think will be sold on really easily and are in really good condition. Yeah.

Ingrid  24:34  
I think it's true, because that's what we hear a lot in our membership. And in our Facebook group that people say I feel so guilty about throwing things away. It's what you touched upon as well. And no, there's no other way but to throw it away. But I feel so guilty about that. It's so hard to do. And I think what lesson I've been talking about is like just see, knowing the first place especially with all the freebies. I mean, I remember a couple of years ago, I think we go to McDonald's About once or twice a year, we even make it there because we like to cook from scratch and we like to cook ourselves. So I remember going back to the counter going, my kids, I know they've got a happy meal, but they don't put the toys and the people that got into counter were like, What am I? We're going to end up throwing it away. I don't want it in the first place. But it's the same with the buy one get one free in the makeup. You know, when you buy makeup, you get this extra product in a weird colour that you're never going to be

Jen  25:30  
so excited about getting it because it's funny.

Ingrid  25:33  
I'm like, no, no, I don't I don't want the lovely ladies the shop are like, welcome here. Yeah, why don't you want it? It's free. And I'm like, but I'm not going to use it. So I don't want it's going to clutter up my cupboards. Yeah. So I think, really think about all the freebies that we get the backs when we go to a conference, maybe ever again. I mean, we're in the middle of lockdown. Now, if we ever go to a conference or a concert, or they constantly put stuff in your hands, it's like, do we actually need and want all this stuff? Right? So do you think lockdown has had an impact on your life? How you can be more sustainable? Have you seen that within your Facebook group? Because we've had a lot of people I can't donate? Yeah, charity shops are closed. Has it had an impact? You think lockdown?

Jen  26:17  
Yeah, definitely, I think certainly that first lockdown where, you know, it literally felt like the world stopped, didn't it. And I think so many people were furloughed, and were home and, you know, weren't trying to juggle working from home and everything else that was going on. So probably a lot of people then did do the decluttering and things like that. And you know, don't forget, you mentioned freecycle, freegle, OLIO, places like that, where you're donating your things within your local community, and you're much higher chance that those things are actually going to stay in use and be used again. I mean, I touched on food waste earlier. And I think there was some stats from the first lockdown that food waste initially went up, because if they knew who would have been stockpiling stuff that they then couldn't use in time, but then it really dropped because everybody had more time to be cooking from scratch. Everybody, you didn't want to just be popping down to the shops every day, we were all trying to just do a weekly shop. So we really used up what was in the cupboards, we really made sure that we didn't waste those leftovers and things and I think there was some stat thing that food waste dropped by about a third during the second half of that first lockdown. It'd be really interesting to know if that trend was sort of continued. But yeah, you know, I think I remember you said before we started recording that you during that first lockdown, you were like, can we even talk about decluttering during a pandemic? And I was exactly the same? Can we even talk about sustainability and the climate crisis during another much more immediate crisis. And actually, I sort of put that out there. And I decided I was gonna do this sort of online Festival in May of that lockdown, and oh, my god, the response was huge. I think people were so desperate for something other than COVID were so desperate to feel like there was something they could make a difference around. So I do think that it has made a difference, hopefully.

Ingrid  27:54  
Yeah, I think so too. I think that's really interesting that you say that, because my husband and I always have been quite good at doing a weekly show up and using up as much as you can and having as little food waste as possible. But one of our members signed up for OLIO and is now a food waste hero. Oh, yes. Yeah. So she was so enthusiastic. So I've now signed up for OLIO as well, besides my local freegle group, because I thought teachers never know if we have something that I'd rather give it away. And it's just been so fantastic to see all of those initiatives really gain momentum. And I think it's wonderful. That awareness has grown so much as well. I mean, we already I think back in the 80s and 90s. When I was in Holland, we were quite on the forefront at the time when I was growing up there with recycling. And all the other countries have really caught up, which is the things where I think Holland now I don't know where they are now. I haven't lived it for a long time. But it's just so nice to see that there's more awareness, but I think it all stems from the less that comes in. Yeah, less you have to deal with on a daily basis than have to deal with with what goes out. Right. So how do our listeners keep up the momentum? So they're listening to you think, okay, I need to do more on being sustainable. So they're gathering a bit momentum listening to this podcast, they're gonna look at maybe their food waste, they're going to look at their plastic bottles, they might think, okay, I need to start buying some more in bulk. Yeah, sort of having all the small single packaging. I kind of realised when I was preparing this podcast, I thought, okay, Ingrid, your next step now is to be I mean, I have reusable shopping bags, but I still have like plastic bags from bread that I buy at my local bakery and I love I think my next step now is to go okay, I want to take those out of the landfill and make sure I'm being good and consistent in gathering them together. And other thing I want to do is the makeup that's me, I don't use a lot of makeup to get like makeup, mascara and things like that. I know this recycling point. So I know those are my next steps. But yeah, how can our listeners keep up the moment And when they are thinking, Okay, I'm going to go on this journey, or have you got top tips if you've got some good websites that people can check out to get inspired? Yeah,

Jen  30:09  
I think, you know, this is the point when you sort of exactly as you say, oh, you know, I want to do a bit more. But then you go, Oh, well, I could do this. And I could do this. And I should do this. And I should do that. And then you go, Oh, my God, I don't know what to do. You know, I feel it's too much, I can't do anything. And exactly as you said, Pick, pick one item, pick one drawer. So either pick an area of your home that you would say, like your bathroom is a really good place to start, or you mentioned the book and the Sustainable Living Guide, there's 12 chapters, and there's 12 months in the year, so maybe you decide well, okay, you know, January is going to be conscious consumption, February is going to be food, you know, and so that you have a way of chunking it down so that your brain isn't going, don't forget this, don't forget that and you're like, it's okay, I know, I'm going to come to that or you know, but at the moment, my focus is plastic or my focus is waste. And then, you know, a really useful thing is to try and find some way of measuring it because a lot of the time when you declutter, it's probably relatively easy, because you can take a before and after picture with my God, you can see the difference. You know, if I say, to switch your carbon footprint, and you might save a quarter of your carbon footprint, you see no difference whatsoever, that's quite demoralising. The things that you can measure like food waste, like plastic, like your landfill bin, take a picture of your food waste for a week, or take a picture of how full your landfill bin is, before the bin lorry comes, you know, and then say, well, that's my goal for this month is to half that or to drop that by a quarter. And then think about the strategies that you can use step by step and baby steps, progress over perfection. No step is too small, don't compare yourself to anyone else, all those kinds of things. It's all about imperfect action. And the imperfect is important. And the action is important. Don't get hung up in oh my god, I could never be zero waste, I could never be plastic free God, I couldn't either, like, but it doesn't mean I can't do anything. So try and pick some of those nice, quick wins, where you really see a difference. And I think to keep you motivated as well, you know, find that community, whether that's a local group that are doing things, or whether you find your community online, you know, people are more than welcome to come and join the sustainability Facebook group, if people want a bit more support, I've got this membership called the nakid mums Eco Club that you know, has a much higher touch much more resources at your fingertips, all those sorts of things. But you know, there are lots of ways out there. And it's about finding the things that resonate with you. But do find that support. I think that's so important.

Ingrid  32:20  
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's true. I think it's the same with decluttering isn't a decluttering by yourself is never any fun, but we've got somebody there who's going through the same thing and the same emotions, you got to get inspired, together want to move forward, isn't it? And I think yes, you know, sustainability, can go hand in hand with decluttering. But you can also just kind of focus on the decluttering. And then I'm going to work on this. You don't have to do everything. So if you're listening to this podcast and think, yes, but I'm in the middle of my decluttering journey, and it takes up all my brainpower. Do that and then go okay, what can I kind of tag on here? What can I do to and you know what, when you declutter your kitchen, for example, and you are already finding things in your cupboard, and you think, oh, that's still in date, but I'm never going to eat it. Maybe you can then go, I'm going to put that in. Oh, yo, let me sign up. I'm going to put those couple of things on olio. Yeah, instead of them left in my pantry, forgotten, never to be seen again until five years later, when they're three years out of date, and then nobody can eat it anymore. Yeah. So you can kind of hook sustainability into your decluttering. Slowly but surely. And we are not about perfectionism, either. This is not about making beautiful before and after pictures, you know, and this is not about having whole houses. Beautiful on the images. This is about, hey, I've done my cutlery drawer. And everybody goes, Yes. And I found some chopsticks I'm not going to use let me put those on. Oh, Leo's Yeah, somebody wants them. It's the small things. But all those things together. That's what makes a real difference, doesn't it?

Jen  34:01  
And I think that's one of the really great things about community as well as especially around sustainability is those small actions that we do individually come together to make a big difference for us as individuals, but actually, when you are then part of a community and you can collectively see the impact of your actions, you know, we've got in the in my membership, a sort of group litter pick goal for the amount of litter we want to pick this month. And there's a brilliant website called geeky zero, which measures your carbon footprint and allows you to sort of input some data to see it coming down and we've got a group in there so we collectively see our carbon footprint coming down. And that's when you really see the power that that we have as individuals to contribute to be part of the solutions. Really. Yeah.

Ingrid  34:39  
Time is nearly so I've got I could have had another 15 questions for you. I might have to have you come back at one point because we talked about the pyramids that are in your book that are absolutely digging so we can you please come back at some point and let's talk some more about sustainable So yeah, thank you. Last question, then what would be your top tip when starting on a sustainable journey? If there's anything that you think okay, one thought for Ingrid's enlaces, listeners, that's the thing. Pick one thing.

Jen  35:15  
Do you know like, exactly like you said, you know, pick an item you want to declutter. But pick, pick one thing you want to do. So whether it's, you know, I'm going to make sure everybody in the family is got a reusable water bottle, or I'm going to actually remember to take my reusable coffee cup out with me when I go out. Or, you know, you said, Oh, it's the bread bags, or it's so because it is such a big overwhelming thing. So pick one thing, make a start, do that thing, do it imperfectly, doesn't matter, you know, and that will give and then you'll be empowered to go on to do the next thing. And the next thing and the next thing, but you know, just take it a step at a time.

Ingrid  35:48  
Right? Listeners one step at a time exactly is what we're always saying in the club, break it down, one little chunk. And the same goes for sustainability. I will put all of your details Jen in the show notes, your website, all your social media, I will put that big clean switch in there as well that you mentioned, I want to Google that put that in. I will also put in the show notes a podcast that we that Lesley, they put her two friends who did a no spend year. Well, so we'll it's one of our earlier podcasts, it's feels like ages ago. So we'll put that in as well. But we'll definitely put in all the details so people can find you and check you out and the details for your book, etc, as well. So thank you for being on the podcast.

Jen  36:31  
Thank you so much for having me.

Ingrid  36:33  
Thank you so much. So listeners, what is the thing you are going to do that's going to make the difference for you? What's the one thing you're going to put in your schedule in your planning? Maybe it's just start small. Maybe it's I'm going to recycle my toilet rolls because they're hyper l cardboard and they can go into my recycling bin. Maybe that's where you want to get started. So thanks so much for listening. We really appreciate you hanging out with us today. And if you've enjoyed this podcast and think wow, other people would love this podcast to to share it with other your friends in your family. And on the show notes. You can find all the sharing buttons. If you want to have more handy tips from Lesley and I please go to our Facebook group to declutter hub community and we'd love to see you there. If you don't want to miss the next podcast, subscribe to critical drop podcast. It comes into notifications each Friday. So see you next time. Thanks for listening. Bye, everyone.

Outro  37:36  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the declutter hub podcast. Check out declutterhub.com for more inspiration. Don't forget to tune in next week.
Subscribe now so you don't miss an episode
Listen on
Apple Podcasts
Listen on
Amazon Music
Listen on
Spotify
Watch on
YouTube
Prefer to watch rather than listen? Watch on YouTube