Episode 406 – The Decluttering Turning Point with member Ben

Ingrid: When inner hub member Ben lost his mum in 2020, he had to clear her home mostly on his own. That experience became a turning point, helping him rethink attachment, memory, and possessions.

Since then, decluttering has become a way of letting go of the past and creating space for a calmer. More intentional life for him and his husband and their two dogs.

Ben has made tremendous progress in his home in the year that he has been a member

and has transformed his home. In today's podcast, we are finding out how he did it all

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid.

Lesley: And I am Lesley. Now, if you are here for the very first time today, or you've been listening in for ages, we want to say a huge thank you we have a little favour to ask.

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hello Ben. Thank you so much for being on. The Declutter Hub You know what? It's so funny, I kind of thought it would be so nice to have one of our male members come onto the podcast, and when I emailed you, you were like, i've been, hoping that you were gonna invite me?

Ben Roberts: For quite a while every time I declutter an area I think oh I wonder if I wonder if this will push me a bit up the list so yes, I'm very glad to be here

Ingrid: Oh, Well, it's absolutely fantastic to have you here and, um, thank you so much for, for coming onto the show. Now you have got quite the, the, story to tell, because of course, you know, we know you've been doing tremendously well in our Inner Hub membership and you've, and we're gonna talk about that absolutely. Later in this podcast. But when I kind of approached you, you were like, "well, there's a lot that's kind of, that happened before I became a member as well, so. Tell us a little bit more about that, because you said you've kind of been sentimental about possessions your whole life. How come?

Ben Roberts: Growing up, I grew up with a mum who sentimentalized everything. teddy bear had a name and there were hundreds and hundreds of teddy bears. they all had their own stories everything every ornament with a face was sentimentalized You can't throw that out it's it's cute think how it would feel." Every balloon from a party was kept And preserved every birthday card packaging from a birthday cake you keep a little bit of the box because you can't keep the cake, but you can keep the box So everything was a memory and that's the way that I thought people should behave that I thought that was normal So growing up Mum wasn't a hoarder as such but I think she definitely had hoarding tendencies. and Yeah. those Definitely And she never really taught me how to, declutter she never really taught me how to tidy up very well I had to figure that out myself. But decluttering just wasn't on the radar we- it's something that we didn't do. we kept things... I was taught how to make things look tidy And put things in boxes which is something that I've been battling with more recently. but I was never taught to throw things out It just didn't happen

Ingrid: yeah. And is that because you think it it was like, just in case we're gonna need it or,

maybe still a bit that, that mentality that we see a lot with, older, generations to make do, and mend? what do you think was behind that? Did your,

mom grow up

also in that same environment?

Do you have any idea about that?

Ben Roberts: I it was the make do and mend culture because mum was born in 1946 as soon as

my grandad came back from the war she was

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: baby boomer

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: do and mend culture my nan was the complete opposite actually She didn't

keep

Ingrid: Ah.

Ben Roberts: she was

completely unsentimental

I think my mum was rebelling against my nan and now

here I am all these years later rebelling against my mum. it's interesting how it's gone.

Ingrid: Yeah. How the cycle kind of moves on through the generations. Right?

So do you feel, that you grow up in a tidy house then, or was the house, did the house always feel very full?

Ben Roberts: the public areas were tidy If people were coming

round, it was tidy the sweet Yeah. came

out, Yeah. Yeah. understand what they are hiding everywi- everything in a bag and putting It

away so we were very good at

keeping up appearances

of having a nice tidy home. but it was always the case of don't go upstairs

you don't take guests in

there go in that room because everything would fall out on you if a guest wanted something out of a cupboard for instance "Oh, I'll

get it," and then it would shut the door, and then they can't see what's

going on

behind the curtain type thing were good at Yeah.

the mess boy was there a lot of mess Mum didn't like tidying up and Okay. in her life she had

quite serious health problems So it was a physical thing at that point there was

always that mentality my Yeah. used to say oh we're not a tidy

family We just we're not tidy it's no wonder that I thought it was the norm to just make it look nice by shoving things in cupboards

Ingrid: So you then lost your mom in 2020, which of course we all remember as the year of COVID. So was that why you had to empty her house by yourself? and You couldn't get any help? or was it something, maybe you were an only child and that's why you had to, I don't know. I

don't know the answer to this question, but why was it that you had to do this alone?

Ben Roberts: do have a Yeah. and he did help me towards the end but Yeah. of

lockdown restrictions Yeah. Ah. her but also Oh

our own space a few yeah. that was in 2019 and for a few months it was wonderful

and then

lockdown happened

and she was clinically vulnerable whereas

Chris

goes out to work He

works for the NHS so

There was two polar opposites there where he was at Yeah. so we had to be separate Really we had a brick wall between us for months Yeah, I could have just been

there but it wasn't to be

Ingrid: Yeah. and then we came Yeah. lockdown

Ben Roberts: She began

to feel quite unwell and within a, month or so she was gone. So the dream of Yeah. yeah. and having this in-out life wasn't to be Yeah. she first

died I was overwhelmed by the thought losing her but also

the house And I

remember

two hours after she died going into the house

and looking round and thinking What the hell am I gonna do with this?" And it also it

was our Yeah. because she kept everything I thought boy I've got a journey ahead of

me

So what made it even more tricky

was it was a rented property we owned the house next door but mum's was rented, so I had to take on the tenancy

because I knew that wasn't going

to be possible to

do this quickly Yeah. I had to just start I waited a couple of weeks but then the first thing

was

the panic alarm had to come out

because she had one of those medical panic

buttons But the plugs were behind a glass China cabinet So I thought that's got to be the first thing Yeah. carefully

and then buy lots of boxes lots of

bubble wrap and let's do this took about

a year the year of hell essentially it

was Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And of course you had the

Ingrid: continuous in and out of lockdown situation where then

that I remem- we all remember it so vividly, don't we?

And when you kinda... and then a lot of people were decluttering and other people were not, and then the charity shops wouldn't take stuff. So where did, because especially if that house was so full, then Where did it

all go? Did you, did you just box it all up and put it in your own house? Did you, were you able to

distribute it or sell it or, or how did you do that

Ben Roberts: a lot was recycled

Ingrid: Yeah. No.

Ben Roberts: the tip we also made good

use of

charities I do remember one

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: and obviously we all know that charities c

can't take everything

and

during lockdown it

was as you say

particularly difficult charity came

and the collect the

collection guy said

oh we don't take tat

We we're not taking this And

during the

grieving process

obviously was not

what I wanted to hear

looking back I can

see where

he was coming from, but that was

very painful to hear and I, said

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: anything then leave it

Ingrid: yeah.

Ben Roberts: find a

charity who I still support and my

decluttering goes to them far place animal rescue

and took the majority of things. I do remember my auntie

coming to to look at the house she It was the

first time I'd

seen her since lockdown

And she said oh I'd a couple of things of

Wendy to re- to remember my sister

by And I gave her boxes And boxes of stuff. I just said please just take

it

Just take anything. anything

but

a lot of it did

end up

in my house the worst thing, looking back on it, it's stupid, I kept her living room bin

A, just a

paper basket it'll come

in.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: I'll, use that one day Why did I keep

a

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: it with

the grief I

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: learned how

to

declutter at that point

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah,

Ben Roberts: everything But looking back on that

process al- although it was difficult it

was

cathartic as well

it really

helped

me

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: experienced

every

emotion going in that

period laughter joy Tears

remember one

moment where I was

going through a

bag of papers It was Bills

circulars that she'd kept There was even some paperwork from my Nan's extension in 1986

I don't know how that Got there because it had survived

my Nan's house being cleared It had moved with us twice and Mum had it but it was there and I got so frustrated shredding all of this stuff

I just turned to her photo and just said "Why have you left me with this

mess Why have

you done this to me and

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: it was just a

rollercoaster

of emotions the

good

Ingrid: Yeah.

Yeah,

Ben Roberts: it I got through it

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Ama it's, inc- it's incredible, especially

y- doing a house clearance is hard anyway, but then doing it by yourself in that time,

and of course being so close to your mum as well. m- that can be, it can be.

It could have been a curse, if she would've been far away, it would've been even more harder to do that.

'cause that's what we see a lot with people. They're like,

"My mum's, hours and hours away, and then all the logistics come into play. So that was

actually lovely that she was so close and

that you could just every day

go,

I, it's easy for me to go next door and do a little bit more, but

because it's so close, it was hard.

As it's always hard anyway,

so.

Ben Roberts: Yeah,

Ingrid: of,

you finished, you got the house empty. You,

could,

re- relieve yourself of the rent and the paying for it all.

And then you came into your own house and what, happened then? What was your thinking? Were you like, "I've literally just done one house and now I need to do one again?

Ben Roberts: oh boy what have I done I there were moments where we could not walk around the house

because I'd brought that much in I remember saying Yeah. "Just bear with me I'll find

somewhere for it And there I

was As soon as he

went to work I was desperately shoving it in

cupboards filling the

shed and filling the loft because that's

what I learned to do.

That's what I thought was yeah. that's how I Yeah, yeah. You cope in these situations. I did think for a while about getting a storage locker, but then I thought, no, I, can make this work if I just fill the loft to the brim." not really thinking about the roof caving in or anything and it was only a

couple of years later where

cracks started to appear in the ceiling Chris said to

me "What have you got up there

Because he d- he doesn't go in the loft cause he's got mobility issues. And I said e

everything. It's all up there." so I knew I needed to do

something. I knew this wasn't sustainable in the ri- long run. And looking back, it was making me unhappy, although I didn't realize that at the Yeah. I felt Yeah. in. we Yeah. that this house was too small for us. it's a two-bedroom house, and we've always said we need more space. but that was because of the clutter Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God. I just love listening to your story, Ben, honestly. Amazing.

Ingrid: p- good. You know what, let's go for a break, because of course, I want to know now.

What you did next and why, how you ended up in the, membership and all of that. But let's go for a break and we'll talk some more after.

Hi everyone. Welcome back. We are chatting with Inner Hub member, Ben,

and he's sharing us the whole story with

how he grew up with clutter, how his mom was.

on the front of it, it all looked quite tidy, but behind closed doors, it was all quite chaotic and messy.

and

the family just they didn't like tidying. So when Ben had to empty his mom's house,

he kind of thought, "Ooh." and then his partner, Chris said, where's all the boxes gonna go? Ben went back to what he was taught, I'm just gonna put it everywhere.

So Ben, at one point, cracks in the ceiling.

The house you thought was too small, you were like, but hold on a minute.

It

this, this house is not too small. We have too much clutter. So what happened next?

Ben Roberts: I knew I had to do something. Yeah. go at it was 2023 called it decluttering, but looking back it it wasn't I

was just chipping away at the edges, and

making the

clutter tidy So instead of the Yeah. an obstacle course, it was, a very cluttered but you could crawl around. Obstacle course. Yeah.

I recorded a video at the time to show friends how tidy and wonderful my

loft was. and I watched it

back recently and goodness me, it's, embarrassing because all I'm saying is, oh

that's there if we need it," and, "We've got those if they're ever useful," and, "We've got those if we need them," and, "That's there if we

ever want to do that." And it was ridiculous the aspirational clutter was off the

scale. Yeah, looking back, I wasn't there

yet. I wasn't ready to Yeah. Yeah. I'd yeah, Some of her stuff went but it wasn't yeah. you were making it look neater,

Yeah probably in nice matching boxes that all looked lined up,

Ingrid: but nothing really, apart from a few bits on the edges left the house, but

it was more like

you're-- were tidying your clutter basically.

Ben Roberts: presentable I

was being my mum, Yeah. Yeah. essentially yeah, yeah,

Ingrid: Yeah. when it came to decluttering my of doom when I joined

Ben Roberts: the Declutter Hub and I put pictures on of the before some of the members said, it's lovely y- you don't

that looks tidy to me and I just thought yeah that's because I'm really good at this. I'm really good at making it look like it's all right m- with knowing that every cupboard every surface was stuffed with Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah, yeah, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. got to late 2024 and I got a

bout of depression I was overwhelmed I was busy at work we were planning our wedding

so that was quite stressful Chris had stuff going on got completely overwhelmed and trapped I felt trapped

in my home. I got help my depression I was put on medication for it

we had the wedding, which went wonderfully. But I remember the day after the wedding, home, we didn't go on honeymoon for, months afterwards So it was straight back to normal and it felt like I'd just entered a new period. I'd entered the second half of my Yeah.

It was like Walking into a room and

closing the door behind me. and I just thought I don't need this stuff anymore It's time

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: do this Yeah. And I just Yeah.

decluttering. wasn't doing it

in any

particular way I didn't really know what I was

doing

So being a researcher

by profession I

just thought

I need to look into this a bit more and learn How to declutter And that's when I began

exploring for different ways to do it

Ingrid: So when did you be- became aware of the Declutter Hub and the membership, and why did you join and how did that happen?

Ben Roberts: Well, I read everything I could find on decluttering So I tried Marie Kondo Didn't work for me I read everything by Dana K. White I even read a book by a Tibetan

monk

on tidying and decluttering

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: and Yeah. if

there's any podcasts out there So I went on Audible and I found this podcast that had 320 episodes

I thought there can't be that

much to say about

decluttering, Surely

I'll never get through all of that but I gave it a try And I just thought I really like these

ladies. is good I feel like I'm with friends It

felt friendly

and before I know it I was on episode 50 and just

plowing through the podcasts And then I

began to hear

about the membership and I thought do you know

what I'm ready to take this to the next step because I was decluttering to begin with, I was listening to the podcast while I was decluttering, and it felt like you were there with me Yeah. I thought yeah I want more of this So I joined Yeah. And could you ever have thought that in the membership there's

Ingrid: even so much more than in the podcast?

Ben Roberts: as I saw the

roadmap obviously there's

the

two ro- roadmaps

of room by room and day by

day, and I Yeah.

"Wow, th- this is... this everything. everything is here Yeah.

I'd already started some work so I'd

Ingrid: Yeah,

Yeah. a little bit to

Ben Roberts: begin with then

I went back to basics and started with my kitchen and my bathroom

Ingrid: yeah.

Ben Roberts: and it was

just incredible. It was like turning a light on because everything I

needed to know was there

and if I ever felt like there was something missing

I could ask a question at the Q&As. or you could say to me

actually there is a video on this And there it was was just brilliant I got the training I needed to get the job done

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. And you have,

honestly, you have started and you've not looked back, really have you? Because

you go, oh yeah, I started with the kitchen

and the, bathroom. But you have, honestly, and

the fantastic thing as well, Ben, is you've been logging your journey. So you've been sharing your pictures and your work, and in the beginning, you, you,

really, decluttered, you really embraced the decluttering and really asked yourself the questions, not only how can I make this look neater and tidier, but

why do we have all this stuff and why do I need it and what are we gonna do with it all? And

I think that was the turning point for you.

When you then also started to do one of the bedrooms, you did a tremendous amount of work on that as well.

I think it's the room where you're in now.

You actually managed to put a TV up and a sofa. Everything changed, right?

Ben Roberts: Room was my room

of doom because it was where a lot of the sentimental items were we called Yeah. bedroom, but it was a dumping ground essentially

and it

wasn't working for us in any Yeah. Yeah. so I

just Yeah. Yeah. Decluttering I just Yeah. through my yeah, which was an epic progress

an epic thing to do

everything went

and then once the room

started

opening up, we began to think about possibilities of what

it could be and I said to Chris, "What do you want this to be?" And he said it would be lovely to have a second living area." But it's become a, multipurpose room because we've it's an office chris can work in here when he's got work to do at home the sofa's a sofa bed so it can be a spare room It's a library I've got my bookcases but with a lot less books than I used to have. and it's a cinema room. We've got a giant TV on the, wall just there so it's whatever we need it to be And this room was the turning point really because of a sudden we'd gone from feeling like we had a very small house and needing extra space to living in a house that was enough. and that was a wonderful feeling of we don't need more space now that everything's gone we've got just what we need. This is a house that works for us, we don't need any more space

Ingrid: definitely.

And of course, after your, your second bedroom, the, room of doom, you also did your loft, right? So hopefully no more cracks appearing now in your ceilings.

Ben Roberts: No the basically empty in part now Everything is now in plastic storage boxes with lids because that podcast episode on cardboard boxes

was life-changing for me I just suddenly

thought, "No, I'm not doing cardboard anymore So everything's been replaced with

durable storage boxes Everything's organized like with but

what that's enabled me to do as well is keep returning to things so that because everything's together I can look at it one day and think

Nope that's enough I want to keep those things revisit it a few months later and think no I'm ready to

let go of

some more of that stuff

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: I

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: now because it's all together it's

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: It's a great space but it's not overfilled so we just need to fill those

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah,

Ben Roberts: fine

Ingrid: Now you mentioned that your, husband Chris has got some mobility issues.

Your health, your, you, is also something that. Can hold you back a little bit as well right, because I've understood that you've yourself got me as well.

Ben Roberts: It's something I've had for a number of years now, and I'm still learning

to to deal with it really does

make things difficult. and what I've learnt is that I need as

an easy life as possible I work full

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: look after our dogs

and when

I've got spare time I need the house to function for me I don't need

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: like

I'm working for the house

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah.

Ben Roberts: Been a big part of my decluttering is trying to make things as easy to manage as possible so that i'm not just moving things around trying to keep tidy and keep up appearances like mum used to do I just want it to be a nice place to live decluttering it's meant that I've had to listen to my body when I'm doing it how much

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: Some days it might not be a day where I can declutter at all. So what I

Ingrid: yeah

Ben Roberts: days is digital

declutter. I'd maybe look at my photos on my

phone or deal with some emails

that type of thing or maybe I just have a

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: I've, learnt to, to

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: through, go with

what my body will let me do. but

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: energy's there, really go for it. But it's like you, you always said, you can't

declutter eight hours

a day every day

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: So it's doing it when you can the way I've got this

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: and it's the way

Ingrid: yeah,

Ben Roberts: it's

continuing as I I learn

Ingrid: yeah.

Ben Roberts: resets That's the next big thing I need to learn

Ingrid: honestly, you're a star student, ben, because, it is so important, right? You have to listen to your own energy and to your own and look at your own. Diary and see, okay, how am I feeling today? Do I do you think I can s- fit something in or is it going to be just a day when I have to go? You know what, I just do the bare minimum and we'll see how tomorrow goes. And how you've done that is absolutely to be commended because you've really

done so much while trying to just do everything else because besides working full-time and, your, partner as well working full-time, you've also done, massive DIY projects and having people in, because I know you showed us your wonderful, kitchen that you've recently had done and you've had some work done in your garden as well. That's looking fantastic. Do you feel those projects were possible before when all the clutter was still there, or has the, clutter going down, has that made the possibility of doing, having that work

Ben Roberts: I

wouldn't have seen what was

possible with the

clutter

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: really come to realize you need

to get the things out then you can see

what you've got you could work

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: and new

things occur to me

all the time now because

there is more space So looking at the

garden I could see that it wasn't working for us as

it was There was

too

many

plants to look after, Too

many, many ornaments, that type of thing. It was cluttered. and it was

such a big realization for me

that you can, declutter a garden as well. but I

have and it's now a workable space That's manageable but it's a space that we can enjoy and

I wouldn't have seen that before our utility space, is

Ingrid: was

Ben Roberts: an

access corridor

Ingrid: just about

Ben Roberts: of the house

and

Ingrid: to say,

Ben Roberts: into a

Ingrid: what's

Ben Roberts: outhouse

Ingrid: the next step of your decluttering journey? But apparently it's taking a door,

out and a wall out, Ben.

Ben Roberts: the things Yeah.

Yeah I need to

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: as well after the

garden's been done

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: I can go

Ingrid: Yeah

Ben Roberts: that I've got a bit more I want to chip away at in the loft

needs a

second pass as

well and I want to put the finishing

touches to the sentimental items But the

big news is I wanna focus on resets and

Chris is

going to do the learning with

me

the

Ingrid: Nice.

Ben Roberts: but

we

both said if we can crack the resets this house is gonna be so easy to live in So we're

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: learning together on

the

reset journey

Ingrid: I love that. I love that.

So if you then look at the Inner Hub membership, you've, you talked about the,

the roadmap. You've talked about, the learning and all the tremendous, the fantastic videos that we have.

Is that your favorite part of the Inner Hub membership that you can do the Lear so much learning, were you, did you feel like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I never knew all these things and now I feel, So

is that your fa or is there other things that you think, oh yeah I really like that as well"?

Ben Roberts: the learning is

a huge part and I like that you can take

it at

your own pace and

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: to things if you want to learn

more The sentimental course in particular has been

wonderful, and it has

taught me so much and I think that's the one I needed the most

p- In particular, Lesley's, video on how she's organized her

own sentimental things I am

following that to the letter and I'm hoping that when

that's finished she'll

be quite

pleased with that but also the

hub hangout is wonderful just

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: with people, getting ideas from other

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: and feedback and support when I need

it The live Q&As are great although I must remember not to log on at

work because I got in a bit of trouble If you remember once when I logged on

and my boss walked in just the whole membership the whole Inner hub has helped me so much and I'm not going anywhere. I'm here for year two

Ingrid: I love that. I love that yes, of course. and we're delighted that you're gonna stay with us another year because like you said, there's tweaking to be done. There's more learning to be done.

the deeper understanding, the mindset shift that's been happening

Absolutely fantastic.

So what do you think? do you feel, actually, I wanna ask you one more question. Do you feel that you

that you've got a different perspective because of course, most of our members are

female.

Do you feel that you've got a different perspective on decluttering,

because you're a man, do you think?

Ben Roberts: In a way perhaps yes things that I do bypass When it comes

to jewelry I don't have that

much

and certainly clothes it's a

little bit different for me But on the whole I Yeah, yeah, decluttering is

decluttering and Yeah. yeah, Yeah. outlook is slightly different on some things what I think that everybody

is

in the membership is so different W- everyone's from different backgrounds different walks of life different countries

We've all got our own perspectives on things

So I've never felt different in that way yeah I did notice when I first joined

oh, there's not many guys here, it didn't matter it Yeah. matter and it's interesting More and more friends have come up to me

men

and women, and s- and said "W- what can you tell me your secret how do you go about this?" declutter isn't a, problem. It isn't a male Yeah. and Yeah. all got clutter to deal with.

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah.

I love that I loved it so much. So what do you think your mom would say if she would see you now? Do you think she, would be, thinking to herself, wow, I wish I had that as well. Or, why did he let go of all my stuff? What, are your, thoughts on

Ben Roberts: it's been difficult sometimes to let things go but one of the biggest lessons

Ingrid: Yeah,

Ben Roberts: from the Declutter Hub is that my memories are my memories her memories

were hers

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: They're not the

same. So I don't need to hang

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: Just because she valued them if I don't have a connection to them some things I've kept instead of having her entire crochet collection i've got one crochet hook in her memory box

Ingrid: No.

Ben Roberts: that symbolizes her craft

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: Of everything going I don't know But she loved animals so she would have loved that A lot of her items went to an animal charity i'm now able to treasure certain things of hers much more because I haven't got the

Ingrid: yeah.

Ben Roberts: And

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: do is hope that she's pleased But I think what she'd be

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: pleased about is how happy I am

now

Ingrid: Yeah.

Ben Roberts: wanted, was for me to be happy I am

Ingrid: yeah.

Ben Roberts: as they say living my best life in a decluttered house, that's just big enough for us I feel

lighter. So I think she'd be

Ingrid: yeah. Yeah. I'm now, like all emotional. I'm all emotional. I, l- I love that so much, Ben. I love that so much, and I'm so glad that lesley and I, the hub, the community, are here around you, supporting you, helping you, and. We've, seen your journey and I think that's such an important part of the, of the community as well, that you can share your updates and that fellow members cheer you on. Whether they are further along themselves or whether they're like, wow, look at Ben. He's like, smashing it. And we would love to do that too. And I think it's such a nice atmosphere and I think, you know, I'm so delighted to hear that you're gonna, um, uh, stay with us for another year so we can continue on that path with you, but. Thank you so much for, sharing. So any last words of advice or tips for our listeners? what, what would it

Ben Roberts: like it's too much it's it's there's always a way to start this process listen to Lesley and Ingrid because honestly, they've changed my life Thank you so much to both of you what I've learned from you has, been life-changing. So if you feel like you you need to declutter you're in the right place. The declutter hub will, really help and don't be afraid to let go of the past because your present and your future are more important.

Ingrid: Thank you Ben so much for opening up, for sharing your story with us, for giving so much hope to so many of our listeners, listeners, I've adored this podcast and thank you so much for listening and for tuning in, and we will see you next week.