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Episode 272 – Does clutter cause anxiety with Kirsty Leitch?

In recent years anxiety appears to be on the rise. More and more people are struggling with anxiety in different parts of their lives and having a cluttered home is no exception. In this podcast I’m talking to Kirsty Leach from Boost Therapy about what anxiety actually is and the effects it has on us, those around us and society in general.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
In recent years, anxiety appears to be on the rise more and more people are struggling with anxiety in different parts of their lives. And having a cluttered home is no exception. In this podcast, I'm talking to Kirsty Leitch from boost therapists about what anxiety actually is, and the effects it has on us, those around us and a society in general.

00:28
You're listening to the declutter hub podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organising your home. Now, here's your host, Lesley Spellman.

00:51
Hello, and welcome, listeners. I'm Lesley, we're delighted you're here to join us as part of your decluttering journey. So whether you're brand new today, or have been listening for ages, we want to say thank you so much for being here. It means so much to Ingrid. And now that you turn up every week to listen to and support us. While we talk all things decluttering and organizing. We'd love to help more people with their quest for a clutter free home and our podcast is a fantastic way for people to be inspired to take action, we have a favor to ask. If you like what you hear, be sure to hit the follow subscribe or like button on your podcast player. share us with your friends or share your thoughts on the podcast by leaving a review. So Kirsty Huge, warm. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here today. How are you?

01:37
I'm good. Thank you for having me.

01:39
Oh, you're welcome. Now, before we started, you're like, Oh, I'm a little bit nervous. Does that mean anxious then? Are you anxious? Are you nervous? Tell me.

01:46
I'm nervous. I was worried I would forget what to say.

01:52
You worry, I'll always fill in the gaps for you. No problem. Problems. Okay. So no, absolutely delighted was I just wanted to explain a little bit about how you came to be on the podcast. And so we're in a load of business groups. And the other day, I saw something that was like, Yeah, I'd love to go on some podcasts. And I'd like to talk about anxiety and what it is. And I was like, That is amazing. I can't believe we've got to 270 episodes, and never actually talked about what anxiety actually is and delve deep into it. And so I'm really excited because I think it's maybe a little bit misunderstood. It definitely seems to have kind of grown quite significantly. I mean, I'm sure it hasn't grown, but the the knowledge of it and the acknowledgement of it from people and the vocabulary for it has recently has definitely increased in previous years. So I really want to unwrap it because I think a lot of people, it's just a word, isn't it? Oh, I'm feeling anxious, and people don't really get what that means or kind of deal with it in the right way with people that are feeling anxious. So I'm hoping that we can unpick it a lot. Because there's definitely a lot of this that goes on within the decluttering world anxiety is a big part of it.

03:01
So anxiety, really, it's it's something that we're supposed to experience, it's a normal thing for us to have. And I don't know whether it has risen over the years, or whether we've just become better at talking about it. Because like all mental health things, there's always been a bit of a stigma about it. And it's, it's been quite embarrassing for people to have problems and to not be okay, whatever that means for all of us. But anxiety is really something we're supposed to experience on a certain level, not where it takes over our lives. So when it comes to clutter and anxiety, they kind of go hand in hand for a lot of people. And for some people, they will experience anxiety because of the clutter. And for some people, it will cause them to create more clutter, because they have anxiety. So it's it's swings and roundabouts where you might find that one is causing the other and the other is then causing you to do more. So when we feel stressed and we feel anxious, we base how we respond to the environment that we're in. And if we're in a really cluttered environment, then our bodies it responds because we don't we don't like it, it becomes uncomfortable. And there's pressure as well of how we're supposed to feel you're at home, which should be safe at home, everything should be fine. But if you're experiencing anxiety, something's happening on the inside. It doesn't necessarily mean that you shouldn't feel it just because you've got home to your safe space. Our anxiety, as I said is a natural response. But it's it's feelings of apprehension and tension and worry there's all of those thoughts that can appear. But then It manifests in us both physically and emotionally. It's not just one or the other. And there's the thoughts that are involved with it as well. So if you get that impending sense of doom, like something terrible is going to happen, then that's anxiety rather than stress is something that it just happens because of a specific thing. Anxiety is something that sits with you all of the time, or most of the time, it's long lived. And it's really complex and multifaceted. There's lots of different ways that people experience it. So it's really tricky to say, well, you have anxiety if you have this one thing, because it's not just one thing. It's there are common elements that you might experience, which can be as said, they're physical. So you might have tension in your body all of the time, you might be really restless, your heart rate can speed up, you can have sharp shortness of breath, shallow breathing, people sweat, you get really upset tummy as well, which is really, really common for a lot of people, were for no reason, you might have to quickly run to the loo. And then of course, that makes you feel more anxious, because you don't know when it's gonna happen can be embarrassing. Anxiety is also that cognitive processes, the thoughts, that excessive worry, where you're persistently thinking about things that haven't yet happened, it's the what if the maybe all of these things that we, our mind is fantastic at creating these movies of these terrible things that might happen. And they haven't actually happened, if that makes sense. And so, because we're creating these things in our mind, and it's not that you're doing it on purpose, it's just how our mind is wired to behave, then your body responds. So then you've had these terrible thoughts, and you're running to the loo, because your body is responding and sending these signals, and then you have more thoughts and you're caught in this cycle. And then you start behaving differently as well. She could be hoarding things not wanting to sort stuff out, because you procrastinate, you avoid doing things you avoid going out. This changes in our sleep so many different things. That what anxiety is and how it could affect you. It really is an individual experience with common things that the collective anxiety, people that experience with anxiety, too much in. It's quite a lot. I'm sorry. All right.

07:35
It's absolutely fantastic. What a fantastic summary of what that is and how it represents to people. And I think, you know, that's absolutely our experience of what makes people struggle with decluttering, in general, is the nervousness about the feelings that come up, because all of the emotions relating to decluttering are difficult worry, guilt. You know, I've tried to take some other ones,

07:59
as well, isn't that exactly shame,

08:02
judgment, all of those things. And it's difficult to keep on making difficult decisions that mean that you need to move out of your comfort zone, because stuff becomes a comfort for most people until it does until it until it becomes overwhelming. And you write in terms of is clutter a symptom? Or is it you know, is it? Is it before or after it's all wrapped together? Of course, it is, you know, to me, and so we need to try and find a way to move out of our comfort zone slightly into a slightly anxious place. And understand that anxiety is going to come if it's something that we've sat with for years and years and years, we are probably going to feel anxious through that process. But how do we then manage that and deal with it to get ourselves to a point where the anxiety starts to alleviate which, which is really interesting point, you talked about the difference between stress and anxiety. So can you just elaborate a little bit more on that? Okay.

08:56
So stress, again, is a normal thing, we're supposed to be able to respond in these situations. And stress comes up when there's a challenging situation, you know, if you're, if you going to do a presentation at work or something, you know, or you have to go and take your driving test. And it's all of these things. They're specific situations that you're focused on, that your attention is brought, who's paying the bills, there's stress, because it's a specific thing. And it's something that you have to deal with. The anxiety is more prolonged, it's something that sits with us. And there's, there's not always a clear external trigger of what that might be. And it often it involves that excessive worry, then it's not all I hope we're going to pass my test. So I'm going to pass my test. That's your stress. The worry from anxiety is I can't do this. I can't do this. What if I do this and something terrible happens? This is going to be the end of the world. And then we roll with this thought and it'd be comes bigger and bigger and bigger until it's so unmanageable that you want to try and avoid things. And then you find that you create these behaviors to avoid thinking like that. And we do certain things, or we go shopping to buy more things, because it gets rid of that uncomfortable feeling. And that all leads into having more stuff, which is more clutter. And as we're getting, we're accumulating all of this physical clutter, we're accumulating this emotional clutter as well. And that's kind of how I feel about anxiety is that it's an emotional clutter, that sometimes we need to, we need to be able to go through a process of letting go of things the same as we do letting go of the stuff around our homes that we don't necessarily want or need. Because they're both very different things having wants and needs. So that stress is just a specific situation that you're you're dealing with, and it can be resolved the anxiety, it, it affects your daily functioning.

11:03
I mean, my my experience of that more recently is that, I definitely feel that there are situations that I would regard as been a spin stressful and stress induced. But then I think it manifests sometimes in people feeling anxious, right? But is that said that, Justin, this is real strange, particularly for my generation, right? Compared to the younger generations, okay. And so and I, you know, I spent my life trying to understand things like trauma, stress, anxiety, you know, very kind of switched on to all of those things. And then I get that with my own children as well, and their friends and all that kind of stuff. And so I think, certainly that I feel are stress induced, but they would then label one, as anxiety, were things that I think are normal parts of growing up in life do not mean like taking a driving test. Yeah, do the presentation at work, the things that you've mentioned, but that would get, you know, labeled Stan or called or whatever, anxiety. And that's where I struggle a little bit. I think the older generation struggle with that, with the principle of stress versus anxiety, and what is, well, that's just a normal part of life. And is that then growing up is that just that terminology has got a little bit skewed and mixed together? I don't know. So I think

12:30
it's when when we're talking about mental health and all of these things a bit more now. I think anxieties become a bit of an umbrella for all of these uncomfortable feelings, right? About doing stuff. You know, I'm there are people that get anxious about going to the petrol station. But then there are people who saying, Oh, I'm feeling really anxious about doing my test. And because there isn't, I'm not aware of there anywhere. That's educating us on the difference between short term stress and prolonged anxiety. I certainly haven't seen anything and yeah, that anxiety is just the umbrella for all of these uncomfortable feelings that we don't necessarily know how to deal with because there isn't, there isn't an education out there on how do we deal with how we're feeling. You know, we, we go to school, and we these get sent your children to school, and you're, you're learning, algebra, trigonometry, and all of these wonderful formula that we're probably never going to need. And there isn't anywhere that's actually supporting people to learn about how their body works in response to stress, and to worry, and how we deal with it so that we can manage it in a way that feels acceptable. When we're feeling anxious, we're told, Well, you either have to deal with it, or you go to the doctor, and then the doctor gives you a pill. And there's there's no education on learning how we deal with our bodies, and the things that are normal. We're supposed to respond to things in different ways. That's how our brain is wired. That's how humans have evolved. Because we're supposed to be able to learn how to deal with stress, and how to process it so that we're safe. And that's what it is, it's the signal that we're, we're not feeling safe. And I

14:28
want to delve into that a little bit more in a moment, actually, about the way that your body protects some sort of almost self protects and, you know, interacts well with your mind and stuff to try and find mechanisms to cope with this kind of thing. But before we go on to it, we're talking very much about an umbrella term and I think that's it, I think it is this umbrella term that's become, you know, it would be there would be people before you know, back in the day will be called having a breakdown or well you know, what I mean this just the terminology has shed quite dramatically, and maybe there isn't a one set because we can never get inside somebody's mind to understand exactly what they're feeling and how that's manifested inside. That's the thing. And so that's where it's misunderstood quite a lot, isn't it? Because we never know what's going on inside. But I think what's interesting is, recently, there have been a lot of more terms of different types of anxiety. So, you know, seasonal, maybe that seasonal affective disorder, but I've got something different. Generalized Anxiety, health anxiety. So what are the different types of anxiety, and which ones are those are kind of medically accepted as a thing that would be almost diagnosed.

15:45
So I think the most popular one that people potentially would have heard of is Gad, which is generalized anxiety disorder. And that's characterized by it being persistent, it's excessive worry about everyday things, you know, all the little things that happen. And you're usually experiencing a lot of those physical symptoms, like I mentioned before, feeling the tension and your shoulders always being up and never realizing that you're walking around completely stiff, because there's so much tension in your body, and it's worrying about everything. And we're gonna get up on time, am I going to put the right clothes on? What is such and such is gonna think of me if I wear this thing? How about if I get to work too late am I going to is someone going to say something, if I speak in a meeting is someone going to think that I'm stupid, all of those things. And it's worry about everything, all of the time. And it's very difficult to switch that that inner voice off, it's almost like there's a another part of you that's running that part of your brain where you're just constantly having that conversation with yourself about things that a lot of people don't experience, if you're fortunate enough not to have that. Another type is social anxiety disorder. And that's more, that's an intense fear of being judged or being embarrassed. People thinking things about you, you have no idea what people are thinking about. And quite often other people are so busy in their own minds, we're not thinking about what you're wearing, or, you know, if somebody says, Oh, I don't really like jeans, and you're wearing jeans, then you immediately think, Oh, well, that means that person doesn't like me, those sorts of things. So when you're experiencing that, it's really unfortunate, because then you avoid going out, you avoid being around people. And you're almost putting yourself in a place of isolation, because it's easier to stay in your safe space and risk being judged. And someone's saying something, which again, is not nice is it, we have panic disorder, which is then that's something that's marked by panic attacks, which is a real sudden, intense experience of fear and fright. And often people feel like they are going to die, because they feel like their heart's beating so fast, they can't breathe properly. It's real physical, a panic attack. And it's quite scary, but you can't die from a panic attack cannot. And no, that's easier said than done, when you're experiencing that. But they're really horrible to experience as well. And I think probably the next level would be phobias. And that's about specific things. So you could be talking about for fear of flying, fear of heights, fear of spiders, they would probably be the most common things that I deal with, that are diagnosed, and you would find them in the DSM five, which is a medical categorization thing that they that they will have the doctors use, I think they would probably be the most common things. If you're going to break anxiety down into a few little categories.

19:10
Right now, that's really helpful, actually. And there's definitely a kind of a trajectory that isn't there that kind of moves up the scale a little bit as you go through it. But I think it's important to understand, you know, things do get thrown around, and we're expected to understand what that is and what that feels like, you know, questions that might be asked about social anxiety for example, you know, where does Where does not being being an introvert stop and having social anxiety? Do you see what I mean? Like there's a crossover those two and you don't need to have social anxiety if you're an introvert, but people would misunderstand the difference between the two, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So panic attacks that you were talking about. Yeah. I mean, I've I've I've not experienced panic attacks myself, but I have experienced them. I've been with clients when they've had panic attacks, and is very, very, very, very scary for the person that is with the person who's having the panic attack if they happen to be with somebody, we're going to talk a little bit about, you know, techniques to deal with anxiety. In part two of this podcast, we're going to go into that in detail. But I am interested in talking about the panic attack side of it, as a person who is on the outside going, what can person on the outside do to help somebody who's having a panic attack on the inside, obviously. Okay,

20:31
so a panic attack, firstly, it becomes a panic attack really rapidly is something that happens for some people almost instantly, and it reaches a peak. Within moments, there's, there's those physical symptoms where your heart is racing, you can't breathe, there's chest pain, there's, it feels really tight. And there's that sense of doom that I talked about. They're really, really intense. And it can be something a specific situation that's usually triggered that it's taken the anxiety from five to like, 100. And it's really overwhelming for that person. And what's happening in that person's body is a response from the nervous system. So if you are with somebody that is experiencing a panic attack, the easiest thing that you can do to help them is to do something that will get the nervous system to respond in a way that it feels safe. Because when we're in panic, our nervous system is sending all of the signals to all of our muscles and to our brain and everywhere to say we're not safe. And that's why we panic. That's why we're fueled with this adrenaline. So what we want to do is be able to communicate with that nervous system. And that's might sound like, that's weird. How do you do that, but actually, it's really simple. And what we want people to do is to work on their breathing. So if you can pace your breath with somebody, while they're having a panic attack, you know, hold their hands, let them squeeze you if they need to. If you can pace your breath, really slowly, get them to breathe out for longer than they're breathing in, you are immediately sending a signal to the nervous system, because you're using a muscle called the diaphragm. And that is one of the only muscles that will send the message to our nervous system that we're okay. Because when you're in panic, you cannot breathe slowly. When you're in danger, you do not breathe slowly. So by helping somebody to have a big breath in, and really blow it out slowly, can really send that message quite quickly. So I always like to think about blowing bubbles. And like you mentioned children, I've got kids as well, you know, there's little pots of bubbles that you get, you have to breathe in a certain way, don't you to get bubbles. And so if you puff it out too quickly, like the mixture of splatters everywhere, so you have to blow really gently but steadily to get a bubble to come out. And so I really like that analogy, because most people know how to blow a bubble. So rather than trying to think, oh, I need to count my breathing, which seems to be a really popular thing that people recommend. I suggest blow bubbles with people. You know, get them to listen, okay, we're having a panic attack. Let's pretend we're blowing bubbles. And it might sound really silly, but I promise you it works. It really works.

23:36
That's really helpful actually, you know, because I think the problem is then you become panicky as well you know, when you seen somebody like that response in you and it's frightens him, you don't quite know what to do. Because there is a sense that something really bad is going to happen at that point, you know, to me, you know that you could be forgiven for thinking that sort of the person might be having a heart attack or you know, something like that. And so that's why it becomes scary and then it feels as if it's all on your shoulders to try and sort of try and fix this. Yeah, to rescue them. That's, that's so helpful. I'm really really really enjoyed talking to you, but for now we're gonna go to a break we're gonna come back in a moment and we're gonna carry on talking to lovely Kirsty. So welcome back we are talking to the lovely Kirsty leach from boost therapy, all about anxiety. I don't know about you, but I've learned loads already. So before we carry on Kirsty, I've already been asked you who you are, what your background is, where you come from, we've gone straight in and they haven't even asked you so tell us what has made you be an expert in anxiety.

24:41
It To be honest, it was an accident. I went to see a hypnotherapist many many moons ago because I was dealing with some anxiety myself and I just didn't know what to do. And I'd been to the doctors and they wanted me to take pills. And I was very adamant that I didn't want to do that. And somebody said, Go and see this lady, she does hypnosis. And at the time, I was like, that's an load of nonsense, there's going to swing a watch in my face. I had really bad misconceptions about it. And it changed everything for me in such a quick way that I couldn't believe it. And I'm such a geek, I love learning. And so I decided I would go and investigate how does this this tool work? What is it and long story short, I went on and did a qualification. Because I wanted to know more, I started doing case studies, because I wanted my certificate on the wall. And it just spiraled from there. And nine years later, here I am, helping people deal with things that I used to deal with many, many moons ago. And it is so rewarding. It's much nicer than sitting on the computer, like I used to. And and I've seen data,

26:03
absolutely, and just to be able to make a difference to something that's can be so pervasive in people's lives. Because, you know, we can make the difference in the decluttering world and, you know, being kind to people and, you know, giving people the possibility for change is so, so, so important, and how lucky and how privileged are we to be able to work in those kinds of spheres in our different ways. So yeah, well, we're glad that you're here, because you obviously know what you're talking about, which is great. So delighted that you've got all the certificates on the wall. I want to talk a little bit more about the effects of anxiety. You know, so how does, if you've got anxiety for long periods of time, how does that affect you? What are the long term repercussions of that? Really

26:46
bad for our health was really, really bad for our health. Because if you think about it, anxiety is our brain creating these marvelous li intense movies, if you like, it's like watching a really bad Netflix show, and you can't fast forward it or pause it. And your body is continuously sending these signals, and hormones and chemicals of stress. And there's only so much stress that our body can process. And then we're filling up and filling up, it's the same as if you were making a cup of tea, there's only so much water, you can pour into that cup. But because we're in anxiety, that stress continues to keep pouring, and so it's overflowing, and there's no way for it to go. And so it builds up inside of us, you can't sleep, you don't behave in the way that you want. There's so much stress running through our bodies and that cortisol, that it can affect our hormones. For women, it can affect your periods and your cycle, it causes us to do things as well, that we don't necessarily want to do. Because our mind can become such a horrid place, we might drink or use substances to try and avoid that. We buy things to try and avoid that which again, can cause financial stress and worries. And there's a whole host of things that can happen to us and our health, just because the anxiety is there. And then it's not dealt with. And it's built up and built up and built up. And it's like Shrek says in the movie fix, we're like I'm you're you've got all of these layers to your anxiety. But instead of peeling it back, we're adding them on. And so our body starts responding in such a way that our cells behave in different ways our body can't heal, it can't function the way it was designed to. Because we're overflowing. Our tea cup is overflowing of all of this stress. And I really like metaphor. And our brain works well with images and sensations. And I like to think of us as like a pressure cooker. Okay, if you bear with me, so that we have life, that's the flame that's like your gas hub, and you're the pressure cooker. So all of this stuff happens to you. You experience all of these different events and you meet different people and they will leave imprints on you and that's all inside your pressure cooker. And it just builds and builds and builds because you haven't opened the valves, there's nowhere for it to go. And eventually, that stress is so full, it's there's so much pressure inside of you. That's when unfortunately we get the pop. That's when we have the nervous breakdown, and the burnout and all of the horrible things that they're mean you actually can't do anything because we've ignored the message of anxiety and stress for so long that the body has no other option other than start shutting things down. On. So when it gets bad, it can be really, really bad.

30:05
And normally when when the body goes into kind of nervous breakdown mode, in your experience, how long does that kind of thing last? Is it? Is it different for everybody? Or is there a pattern of you know, once you if you make the right steps and go, Okay, I'm going to now take time to heal, how long does it take? Does it take a while different

30:23
for everybody, because everybody is different, our, our hormones, our chemicals, everything that makes us individual makes us individual. So there might be, again, common things that you experience. But as long as you do take the time to start prioritizing how you're feeling, noticing, which is a really important thing, becoming aware of our energy levels, and what we can deal with, then you can heal there is, I don't believe that there is a point where you cannot start getting better. It's just about how long you need, there isn't a right there isn't a wrong, it's the same with grief. It's people you process you. And it's just about what you need to do. And the more you can become aware of your experience to things and how you respond to things, then the easier it is for you to work through that process. You know, we could we could both have the same experience and be in a a shop where there's a robber come in, you know, but you will respond to it differently than I will. Because we're different. We're individual, it's a physiological response, not just okay, something bad has happened, you now need to start thinking about that. Yeah,

31:48
and presumably that that's why when people's for example, people that are working and you know, if they do have, you know, serious mental health, health issues like that, or some kind of breakdown, they'll come back to work at some point in the future on a kind of phased approach to kind of start to eat can generally into back into kind of normal life in inverted commas. Which is also, you know, helpful not to go from nothing to all again. Yeah, I mean, overnight, and I'm excited to come back with Kirsty for another podcast where we're really gonna talk about techniques and strategies that you can use if you suffer from any kind of anxiety. But before we wrap up today's podcast, and Kersey, I think it's really important. And this plug this podcast was designed with that in mind, is to raise awareness and understanding about what anxiety is for individuals and for society as a whole. Because I think it's, as I said, at the beginning of the podcast, I think it can be really misunderstood. So how important do you think it is? And how, how far are we getting in that journey of understanding and awareness of people,

32:52
I think it's really, really important that we are able to understand our bodies, not just for anxiety, but for all of the things we experience, because life throws stuff at us, isn't it and we can't predict what's going to happen. And we need to be able to work with ourselves in harmony without causing our own little mental presence that we get stuck in. And it's really, really crucial, I think, for reducing the stigma that actually everybody experiences some kind of stress and worry. And it's ignoring that and pretending putting on that, that Warface that everything's okay. Is part of the problem. Because all of the time, we're pretending everything is okay, instead of asking for help, or finding ways that we can help ourselves, we're just patching over it. It's like putting on plaster on a broken arm. It's not, it's not going to help, you know, you need to get it set properly. For someone who knows what they're doing. We need really need to support our younger generations as well, because life is so different for them now than what it was certainly when I was growing up or when my parents were going up. And the world moves so fast, so fast, and we're needing to be on all the time. If we don't raise awareness about anxiety and stress and how it affects individuals, then I dread to think what society as a whole is going to be like because it just feels like there's a wave coming because there isn't any support for our next generations. And that that does worry me it really does. So we

34:45
are going to wrap up today's podcast Kirsty where can people find out all about you and have you got anything that can help people in the short term?

34:52
Yes, so if you've if you visit my website, which is boost to therapy.co.uk forward slash freebies, you will find some breathing techniques, and some hypnosis audios which you might find useful.

35:06
And those very breathing techniques and the hypnosis techniques that Kirsty talks about. We're going to talk a lot more about that in part two of this podcast, which is going to be episode 277. So you've got about four or five weeks to wait. So thank you all so much for listening. I hope today has been super helpful. I hope that you've found some kind of insight into anxiety, whether you struggle with that yourself or whether a loved one does. And thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.

35:41
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hop podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode. And we'll see you next week.
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