A photograph of a smiling Alison Lush facing the camera wearing a purple top
Episode 94 – Chronic disorganisation strategies

In this podcast, we talk to Alison Lush from the Institute of Challenging Disorganization who shares with us the strategies she has used for herself and her clients to tackle chronic disorganisation.
Finding strategies to help with chronic disorganisation can be a minefield but self knowledge is the key to finding a way forward.
Prefer to read rather than listen?
Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The declutter hub podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

Ingrid  0:32  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 94 of the Declutter Hub Podcast. I'm Ingrid. In today's episode, I'm talking to Alison Lush again. She's a certified professional organiser from Montreal in Canada. And we are going to talk some more about chronic disorganisation. Now, I hope you listened in to Episode 86 Where Alison really explained so well what the analogy is about chronic disorganisation her definition. How does it feel like to be chronically disorganised? Why are we even talking about chronic disorganisation and what factors might contribute? So if you haven't listened to the episode, I would really suggest you do so? Because that will give you a really good explanation of what chronic disorganisation is. Now Allison is a professional organiser as well. And she is currently the president of ICD, the Institute of Challenging Disorganisation. And she is an accomplished and very well respected international speaker and a very dear friend of mine. So welcome back, Allison.

Alison  1:35  
Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be here again.

Ingrid  1:38  
Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah, I know, we left the last podcast on a bit of a cliffhanger Allison because we talked about everything, like the serious stuff. And in the next one, I'm going to talk about all about the strategies and what people can do about it. So I was thinking, yes, our listeners are now driving around doing the shopping doing the cleaning and thinking, Oh, I might have chronic disorganisation. But what do I do know, this podcast is, is going to be all about how and when? And what do I do when and what kind of strategies can I pull in and all of those things? So I'm going to hand over to you, Allison, and you can lead the way. And I'm sure I'll, I'll find some questions along the way to ask

Alison  2:24  
you. Excellent. Okay, thank you so much. So I've made a list here, I'm going to start at the top of the list, and we'll see how far down we get. I think that the absolute most important thing to do is to start with the understanding that judgement is not helpful. So the most important strategy is to make create a what I call a no judgement zone. So in my own head, and in the language between myself and the people who are close to me, we want to be on the lookout for any thoughts or words that we're using that are judgmental, and try to remove them because it's not helpful. It's just not going to help anything. That's one thing. Second of all, where do we want to work? Where might an individual want to dive in? Should I start with the bookshelf? Should I start with the pile of clothes? Should I start with the paperwork? Should I start in the kitchen, when I go to meet with a client, what we do is we do a walkthrough and I would encourage your listeners to consider doing this in their own home, this could be very valuable feedback for an individual do a tour. In fact, let's say that this is number two, I've just changed my mind. Number two on my list is do a tour of your own home an entire tour of your own home, and to go talk to yourself, pretend you're interviewing yourself and ask yourself, is this area working for me? Is this drawer working for me? Is this table working for me? Is this shelf working for me and try to figure out? Where are the zones that you feel? Yes, this is fine. It's not a problem. And oh my gosh, this is an area that's really bothering me. And actually what we're trying to hone in on is the emotion. We're not talking about the objective. Does it look tidy? That is not what we're looking for. What we're trying to get a handle on is how does the person feel? I feel good about this bookshelf. I feel uncomfortable about this drawer. That is the compass for us in the world of chronic in my work anyway with it to identify what we should be working on. The true north is where the pain is. That's what we're trying to identify where is the pain? Where is the discomfort. If something is untidy, but it doesn't feel bad, then it's not a problem and you're not going to feel motivated to work on it right now and you're not going to get a lot of reward by working on it. So what we want to do is identify where the pain is, and that's where it's worth investing some time to try to declutter and organise. So once we've, once we've gone through the home, and we've taken note of Have the areas where there's most pain, then choose one area, just one, start with one area so that we don't get overwhelmed. And start slow, start small. We don't want to be emptying out an entire closet and get overwhelmed and just leave things lying all over the house. So start small with something that you can wrap up and walk away and not feel like you've left clutter in your week. Once you've done a section, let's say that you've dealt with a drawer or you've dealt with a bookshelf or whatever it is that you've done, what is good enough? This is a question that people often have, because we all have a different view of what is good enough. Personally, with with I've fully feel that the most important thing is to go back to that compass and ask the client, how do you feel now. So it doesn't matter to me what the bookshelf looks like, it matters to me how the person feels, we've decluttered the bookshelf, the person has led the way all the way through our work. And now we look at it afterwards. And I say how do you feel about this bookshelf now? And I if my client says, I feel really good, it looks better I can I understand what's there, it's clear, I feel I feel good. That to me is the proof that we did good work. And that's the proof to me that we invested good energy and good time and that we were on the right track. And, and then also what's valuable at this stage is to stop for a second. And look back, you mentioned in our prep discussion, the benefit of 2020. So at the end of a small decluttering project, it's very valuable to pause and look at what just happened. How did it work? What was difficult about it? What went well about it? And how do you feel now, because the whole process of decluttering, that little bookshelf is going to be valuable information and that we can take forward to the next decluttering project. One of the things that's very, very different about anybody who's affected by chronic disorganisation is that there's a lot of mystery. Why is it so difficult for me, and it seems to be so easy for other people. And usually it's for unique, personal reasons. So the more I get to understand my own strengths and challenges, the more I will be able to address the next challenge, and be in a better position to be effective and efficient on the next project. So that's number four. How do we tell if we've made progress? Number five, I would say is courage. It takes courage to dive in and try to declutter and organise when we have a background of feeling that we've had a lot of failure. I've tried some I when I finally learned how to organise my paper working grid, it was about five years ago, it took me five years of being a professional organiser to get my handle on paper, that was one of the hardest categories for me. And when I finally found the strategy that worked for me with my paperwork, I think it was about the 11th system that I tried, I tried one system that was recommended, it didn't work for me, I tried another one, it didn't work for me, I tried another one, it didn't work for me. It took a tremendous amount of courage to not give up. But after years of trying, because it was difficult for me, I finally found a system that works for me. And now it's been five full years that I've been using this system. And it's no problem at all, it's so simple for me, because I found a system that fits with me. And that's what people need to remember, if you have courage, and you just don't give up and I'm going to get to the other characteristics, you will find more and more information that will help you identify the factors in our own personal situation. And the more we do this exercise, the more information we get about our own unique circumstances.

Ingrid  8:59  
That's so interesting that you're saying that, Allison, because a lot of times when I work one on one with clients, they said to me, Ingrid, you tell me how you do this in your house. And then I'm going to do it too. And I'm like, it doesn't work that way. We need to find a system that's going to work for you. Because you're the one who has to live in this house. And it has to be able to find things. So let me give you some suggestions where we can put a certain items. So they're like I don't know where I'm going to keep this item and like Well, let's talk let's talk about the place where we can put this item. But where are you going to look for it what makes sense in your head to find this item because it's nice that I want to put an item in that Understairs cupboard because it's in my house might Understairs cupboard. But if you wouldn't even consider looking in the Understairs cupboard for this item, then we shouldn't put it there because it makes no sense for you. And that's why In the declutter hub, we give lots of options to people and say, you kind of need to figure it out, we can't copy paste our own houses in because we all have different houses with different amount of space different amounts of time. So we give you a whole buffet of options, and you pick and choose. But when you can work one on one with clients, you can be much more like, Okay, I'm in the house now. So how about here? Or here? Or here? Have you thought about this or that? And it's a different way of learning. But I, I'm with you, I completely understand. And I'm sorry, it took you a lesson systems. But I'm really happy for you that you found the one that that works for you.

Alison  10:42  
Well, I am too, I'm very grateful for the person who helped me actually figure it out. There's two things I'd like to add on what you just said what you just said. And I absolutely agree with you that it's it's for the individual to identify what actually will work for them. One thing is, I encourage people to look for what systems they already have in their home that are working. Because even a person who's living with chronic disorganisation, they probably have some kind of system in their home that is working for them. So it's just as important for me to help the person identify where the pain is, it's just as important to help the individual. And I did this with myself, I identified in my own home, you don't have to have a professional organiser to do this. I looked around and said, Well, what systems I have that are working for me one thing, because that's very encouraging. But then I would stopped and went even further. Why is this system working for me? Why does it work for me to have a pile of paper next to my desk? What is it that I like about that pile of paper next to my desk, and it's when we dive down and we understand the features in a system. That's where the really valuable information is, I like having the pile of papers next to my desk, because it feels like I can just grab it. And I can see it all the time. And I can see how big the pile gets. And if the pile gets too big, I can do something about it. So that's what works for me. But those factors, I can apply those elsewhere in my home because I so the second thing I wanted to say based on what you just said is you just talked about the different options of how we can organise things in our homes. This is absolutely true. It's good to have a buffet of choices. But if we go if we're dealing with anybody who's challenged with chronic disorganisation, we need to dig further into not just what work for the home, but what works for the individual. Because we have preferences. And we have, it's like having different glasses on I see things differently, I interact with my things differently. So I need to be more aware of the impact of me in the mix of my stuff. It's not just my stuff in my space. It's also me and my preferences and my understanding. So that's what we try to do when we're dealing with chronic disorganisation is also look very, very much at the individual. The emotions, the perceptions, the skills, we try to increase the skills, etc. So shall we get back to the list?

Ingrid  13:07  
You have another question? No, we got we could. So we've discussed no judgement zone, walk through your home, decide where you want to work. Decide what is good enough. What's the progress that you want? And courage don't give up? Because there will be a system out there that is going to work for you. But it might take some really hard work to figure that out. So that's what I've gone up to so far. Yes, great, perfect, perfect. Okay, after

Alison  13:33  
courage, I would say patience. So we need to be patient with ourselves. Because some mysteries can be figured out very quickly and some mysteries take a little bit longer. So I made a tremendous progress in my kitchen very quickly, my, in my own journey right near the beginning, I was able to really get my kitchen under control and make tremendous progress very, very quickly and in a very personalised way. And it still remains very nice today. But like I said, the paperwork took me years to figure it out. And paperwork is something that a lot of people struggle with. So it's not really surprising if I had not been patient with myself, I would have given up after after the second or third system. So I encourage people to be patient with themselves and patient with the process. Then curiosity so this is a huge factor. When we're talking about chronic disorganisation organisers who specialise in chronic disorganisation, we frequently refer to ourselves as detectives. So I encourage your listeners to put on their Sherlock Holmes hat, walk around their lives and think of themselves like a detective. What is it that I see here? What are the clues in front of me? What's going on here and be curious, be absolutely curious. What's going on here? Don't jump to Oh, that's terrible. There's clutter. Look at the pile of clutter and say, Holy cow, look there. is a whole bunch of clutter there and it keeps coming back. I wonder why this is happening. And try to understand, don't judge, understand the curiosity is a hugely important factor in finding solutions. Next, humility. So it actually does require a certain amount of humility after my third or fourth attempt at developing paper strategies. It took some humility for me to say, this is not easy for me. And it's not as clear for me as it is for someone else, and to have courage that it has nothing to do with intelligence. It's not that I'm not as smart as the next person. It just has to be. It's just the fact that it's a bit more challenging for me, I don't have to understand, you know why it's more challenging for me, I just need to know what I can do about it. That's the important thing. So it took some humility for me to say I still need to work on this, I still need some help with this. And I think that's a very important factor. Flexibility. So it's just basic mentality, Outlook, a lot of the things that I'm suggesting to your listeners and grid, I think, what I hope what people are understanding is, there's a tremendous amount of mindset involved in helping a situation with chronic disorganisation. It's not a strategy like use this kind of box or use this kind of decluttering technique. Because what is the most key factor in addressing chronic disorganisation and making progress is understanding the individual human being. And so much of that has to do with perception. So that's why we're talking about courage and patience and curiosity and humility, they are actually hugely important factors that will help a person find the solutions they need when they combine what I'm saying, with all the practical, no nonsense strategies that are offered in a place like the decluttering hub. When those two things are put together. They become hugely powerful, very, very, very powerful. The knowledge of structure and classic decluttering strategies, combined with self knowledge, that's when you really get lots and lots of progress. The last one, the last on my list is persistence, which is it's a little bit different from courage and patience, persistence, so don't give up. Nevertheless, even if it's challenging, even if it's difficult, do not give up, be persistent. One of the characteristics of chronic disorganisation is that it's something that even if a person gets their entire home, sort of under control, and they've got all kinds of wonderful strategies. If a person has been challenged with chronic disorganisation in the past, they have much more likelihood that it might come back. My home is more vulnerable to clutter than someone else's home. Because I have a history of chronic disorganisation. One analogy might be if a person has become very overweight in their life, and then they've gotten in shape and lost all that weight. They have more tendency or more vulnerability to putting on weight in the future than someone who never had that weight in the first place. The body changes. It's a little bit similar like that with someone who comes from chronic disorganisation. So it's very important for someone who comes from this, who is affected by chronic disorganisation to always be aware that extra maintenance will probably be required, just keep an eye on it, don't let it build up until it gets out of hand. That's what I do in my home, I have a little bit of tolerance for clutter, but I don't let it get out of hand because I don't want to go back to the way I was living before and it's not very difficult just being mindful of the maintenance need. So to wrap up all of this, I would say that the all of this wrapped up together can be described as self knowledge is our superpower. That's how we become powerful and competent in the area of chronic disorganisation. It's all about self knowledge. The more I know myself, the more I can impact my situation.

Ingrid  19:14  
So if people are not thinking to themselves, okay, have you got any advice of people, for people on where to start? I know you mentioned start with one area start small. Have you by working with chronically disorganised people realise that some areas are easier for people to get started than other areas?

Alison  19:34  
Absolutely. So I would say for sure, one area to absolutely lead to much, much later, would be anything having to do with memorabilia. That's an area that's very sensitive. There's lots of emotion involved, and it's very complex. I would not touch that at all. Like don't touch Don't worry about the photographs, anything that you hold up and you go, Oh, this belongs to my father. Whatever it was anything this was My father's it has sentimental attachment. Just put it aside as memorabilia and don't worry about it. It's much easier to start with things that are clear, like a spatula, and forks kitchens are very easy place to start most of the time, because it's actually a work zone. The things that we need in a kitchen for a kitchen to work tend to be quite easy to define. So this is another insight about chronic disorganisation. One of the things that people affected by CED, have in common frequently is the ability to define what is helpful and what is not helpful. So if I'm looking in the kitchen, and I look at my spatulas, I can say, these are the spatulas that I liked the best. These are the spatulas that work the best. But I've got 10 specialists here, how many do I really need? Maybe three or four is enough? And maybe I can let the other ones go. That's quite clear. It's kind of black and white, even if I have an emotional component, which is the spatula that I like the best. So I would say the kitchen is a really good place to start for most people.

Ingrid  21:10  
That is so funny. You say that because let's see, and I have developed an eight week room by room declutter bootcamp, and the first room we do is the kitchen. Because yes, because you we can see and we know from our experience as well, that is, unless somebody is like a budding chef or wants to be the Maryberry of baking kitchens are normally quite okay to do. And they're easier. So if you if you're interested in the in the room by room, declutter boot camp, have a look at declutter hub.com, forward slash on the shop. And there you can see the declutter hub boot camp, if you want to do an eight week room by room boot camp and start with the kitchen. So yes, I really follow you on that, Ellison and also the fact that you say, keep memorabilia last and what I would do with my clients, if there are no memory boxes at all, I would say, let's create a box or a bag, or a empty Amazon box, or it doesn't really matter what it is a crate or something. And let's just put a sticker on it that says memorabilia and every time we find something that is memorabilia, we're going to put it in there. Because a lot of times memorabilia float around the home, and they've got nowhere to go. And then this one, they're left in random places. But then when you actually want to look for them, you can't find them because they're floating around your home somewhere. So in the beginning, when you're just start on, you're organising your decluttering and organising journey, creating a book and just writing on a bit of Sharpie or whatever it is, memorabilia and everything you find something important from your man or your dad or your sister or anything, put it in there. And then later when you've worked with those decluttering and organising techniques and structures, and you've you've done more decision making far later in the project, then you can go back to that box and go okay, right. This is all my memorabilia. And I've done the same thing with a client of mine quite early on in my career. And she said to me, Ingrid, I have stuff my dad is unfortunately passed away their stuff of him all over this house. Everything we find from my dad, I'm keeping, because I have hardly anything left from him. I am worried that I am not honouring his memory. And so I'm like, perfect. Let's create. So we created the drawer in her cupboard. In our living room, we emptied a drawer with lots of random bits and bobs and this is your dad's drawer. And every time we found something, we put it in this drawer and there's one point this drawer could not close anymore. So I was like okay, we've now worked for a little while together. Shall we have a look at this drawer and she wasn't ready and I went, that's fine. We're going to leave it we're just going to create a little bit more space. Let's let's shuffle items around with all fits a bit neater in there. And then a little while later, she was ready. And she was like, I can't believe how much stuff I have. But just because it was everywhere she couldn't oversee there was no limit or container because it was everywhere. And we found the thing she treasured most which was her photograph of her dad with the queen. We found we knew what the photo frames were and we put it in a frame and we put it on her dresser and she was crying happy tears. Because for her that was the icing on the cake and she said if I wouldn't have done it this way, I would have never found this photo I would never gotten around to it. But it was a perfect example of when you're doing a project like a bookcase or utensils in your kitchen. Don't get sidetracked by something else. Just create a box memorabilia. That's where it goes. And every time you find something you know I I have these books or memorabilia, I'm gonna put it in there. And then at one point, you will get around to it. And I think so I'm fully on board with everything you're saying. That was that was basically my story to tell you, I agree with you.

Alison  25:15  
Well, that's very reassuring actually, I'm very grateful that you shared that story because it absolutely echoes exactly what I'm describing. And also, one of the things that you've described, which is also relevant in this conversation is you just touched on the notion of category. You named a category, the category of memorabilia, and how valuable it was for that client that you created. A container, which has a drawer doesn't matter what the container is, you created a drawer, and you created a category and a safe place for the client to start collecting those things. This is another strategy that is hugely beneficial for people who are affected by chronic disorganisation. Because they may not be aware of the value and the importance of categories. So that's one of the things that I always try to start helping the client understand near the beginning of the process is let's create some categories, hardware, technology, manuals, paperwork, clothing, accessories, there are basic categories that not everybody understands. Not everybody thinks in terms of categories. And if a person doesn't think in terms of categories, everything gets all mushed up together. And it's amazing how powerful it is to create categories. And then a container or zone. Let's put all the clothes over here, let's put all the books over here. Whatever it is, it doesn't matter. That starts creating some clarity. And for people coming from chronic disorganisation, this can be a very, very valuable step to do. Another thing that you touched on, not being ready yet the client that you described, you put the memorabilia into the drawer, the drawer at some point started overflowing. And you ask the client, shall we start going through this? And she said, No, not ready yet. So you made an adjustment, you said fine, you respected the client's ability to deal with it not yet. And you just left it on the backburner. That's hugely important, especially with clients who I think all people have areas that are more sensitive than others. So what the lesson here for everybody is, let's respect the feeling of the individual, ourselves or someone else. And if the person isn't ready to deal with it yet, let's just respect that and put it off until they feel ready to deal with it. So you've identified the memorabilia category, there is another category that I use with many of my clients, which I find very helpful. And I have it in my home as well. And I find it very helpful. And you can name it what you will some people call it, the ripening box. So the notion is think about cheese, okay, find cheese and make the cheese and then they put it off to the side for a certain amount of time, and let the cheese ripen. And as the cheese is just doing its thing, you're ignoring it. Over time, it gets better and better. And then when you take it out, all of a sudden, you've got this wonderful cheese. Well, the ripening box concept is you create a space, I've got one specific box and it's like the size of a file box. It's not huge. It's just a small box. And I put into there anything that I'm not sure what to do with? Should I keep it? I don't know, should I let it go? I don't know, do I need it? I don't know, I'm confused about this thing. I can't come to a decision. But I'm not ready to let it go. I'm not sure I should be keeping it. So I might put it into the ripening box and just let it sit there. And then I come back to the box a few months later. And I might dump the box out on my bed and have a little rifle through and look at the stuff that's there. And because I've just let the thing sit and I haven't looked at them. They look different to me over time. They are different my relationship with them, my perception of them will have changed with time. That's all the time is an incredibly powerful factor. That sometimes if we just allow ourselves time, it can make our job easier. So I rifled through my stuff and all of a sudden I'm looking Oh, this thing No, I don't need this anymore. Oh, yes, this I'm sure I want to keep and they become clearer with time and the ones that don't become clearer. I just put them back in the box and put it back on the shelf. And I allow myself one box of things that are undecided. It's a strategy. It's a tool to take the pressure off because if we pressure ourselves into making a decision too quickly, we can have regret. Another strategy that I use with with myself and I think that this is very helpful for people, especially if they have difficulty making decisions is I asked myself Okay, this item here I'm thinking of decluttering it and I'm not sure if I should or not. Okay, I'm pretty sure I want to let it go but I'm afraid of making a mistake. So then I asked myself, okay, if I were to make a mistake, and I wake up tomorrow morning and I gave that to charity today And then tomorrow morning, I wake up and I regret having let that thing go. How dramatic will it be? If it was a white t shirt that I let go to charity and I regret it, I can go out and buy another white t shirt, if it was a package of lined paper for school that my kid didn't need anymore. And tomorrow, I find a need for paper and I need to go buy more paper. It's not a big deal, just a couple of dollars. And I can go and buy more paper. But if it was my grandmother's china set, and I let it go, because I didn't think I needed it. And I wake up tomorrow morning, and I regret giving away her China. I cannot get that China back that's irreversible. That's a big risk to let go of the China. So when I'm on the fence about something when I'm not sure if I should let let it go. But I'm pretty sure I want to let it go. But I'm afraid. I asked myself if I wake up tomorrow morning, and I've made a mistake, how dramatic would it be? How easy is it to replace. And that gives me a lot of courage to let things go. And I'm very happy. And I've almost never in 10 years, I've let go of 1000s of things. And I've almost never had any regrets at all.

Ingrid  31:06  
I agree with you. It's very interesting, because I think that's why the last step in the decluttering process is so important is once you've made a decision on an item. That's why that bag needs to go to the charity shop because the decision has been made. Because what you see if the bag stays in the home, and it's not labelled properly for the charity shop and it gets buried under some other items, then the bag gets found again, and people start to rummage through it. And they're like, oh, and they haven't even missed it. But because there's so many get confronted with their items again, they might think, Oh, I'm gonna take that out, I'm gonna take that out, I'm gonna take it out. But the decision was made at the time. When you're decluttering, you will never make 100% good decisions. And I think that's something that is very important for our listeners to hear that nobody can make 100% Perfect decisions. That is absolutely not viable. We are human, we are human, we make mistakes. And that is okay. You know, and that is okay. And if my client shows me an item of clothing and says I am not sure. I'm like, let's put it to the side. And at the end of the session, we'll look at it again. If you're still unsure, we're going to put it back in your cupboard. Because at some point you will go through decluttering is not a one time thing. It's something you will I am always decluttering and I'm a professional organiser, it is a continuous process because stuff comes into your house, stuff has to leave. So if somebody is really strong with an item, I'm gonna go let's put it back in a wardrobe. And in six months time when you have a quick rummage through your cupboard again and have another look. You might think you know, I am ready to let it go. Because again, I have not worn this item at all. But can you make 100% Perfect decisions? No. Right, Alison, we've talked about 10 strategies. Is there anything else you would like to add?

Alison  33:12  
Ingrid, I do have one more strategy that I consider to be very, very powerful. And I think your listeners will be happy to hear about. So you've heard probably before that we never should be going grocery shopping if we're hungry. It's dangerous. We always end up buying more we grab food from the shelves because we're hungry. We're feeling a hunger here and we just grab grab grab, we spend too much money and we bring home things that are not well chosen in our homes when we're doing a decluttering process. For example, let's say that my I want to go over my clothes, I have too many clothes, I want to reduce and do some decluttering I will take a category and put it on my bed and spread it out all of my pants so all of my tops or whatever, it doesn't matter what the very first thing I want to do is I want to take my treasures, I want to take my favourite pens and my favourite and most comfortable, I don't doesn't matter what they look like my favourites, the ones that I feel emotionally drawn towards. And when I've taken those, and I've said I'm keeping these ones, it's the same thing as eating a meal before going grocery shopping when I take those treasures and I've identified them and they're safe and I'm going to keep them I feel emotionally reassured and I feel safe. And then I can look at the rest of the stuff on the bed and it's like I'm not hungry anymore. I've got now my I'm emotionally my emotional needs are met and I can look at the rest of the stuff on the bed more dispassionately. So I strongly encourage your readers to consider starting with a treasure hunt. Make sure that your emotional needs are met and then you can look at the rest of the stuff more dispassionately and objectively.

Ingrid  34:51  
I love that so much Ellison because I do the same with my clients. So I don't say what are you going to declutter or get rid of? No Tell me the stuff you wear all the time, because we need to make sure that those items are in this cupboard because that's where the wardrobe, that's where they need to be instead of in the laundry on the floor, on the bed on the railing everywhere. No, they should items you'd like to wear that you love. And we need to make sure they fit in your wardrobe. And then everything else is up for discussion, you can almost say, but then they'll find that they feel more relaxed because they're like, Okay, she's not forcing me to do anything. I'm actually first thinking about the items that are important to me. And I think that's a different way it looks like it's like in the kitchen. What are your favourite mugs? What are your favourite cutlery? What's your favourite plates that you always love that you always grab? That's Yep, get those out. First, we find room for those and then we'll see what we have left. And it's it's the same thing, but it's a positive way of looking at decluttering, isn't it? And you know what? decluttering? Should? Yes, fun. It's hard enough as it is. You know what I mean? You need to be sure you keep did you actually really love?

Alison  36:05  
Yes. And I will just say as a closing comment that with people who have any kind of chronic disorganisation, making sure that the emotional component is embraced and acknowledged and dealt with is even more important. We have to make sure that we don't pretend that there's no emotion and just be dispassionate. We should start with the emotions, take care of the emotions, reassure the human being, and then the rest becomes possible.

Ingrid  36:34  
Well, listeners, what about that? How did you enjoy Allison's strategies, I thought it was gonna be 10. But we have 11 Brilliant strategies. And I really hope this is helpful for for you and that it's going to help you on your journey in your home in your life. Allison, thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us and with our listeners. And thank you for doing two podcasts with us. We're really, really grateful. I always remember that you once drew a picture and it's stuck in my head about your home that had so much stuff coming in, but nothing was leaving. And that is just stuck into my brain. And I think it really describes a lot of people's homes that there's too much coming in but not enough going out. And that's when the clutter just builds up in your house and we hope that the strategies we've been sharing with you are helpful to get that balance back in your home that you feel happy and your home is going to look different than my home and Ellison's home is going to let it look different in your home. It doesn't matter as long as you're happy in your house and you find it a safe place to stay in and to be at. That's the most important thing of everything. So we hope these two podcasts, about chronic disorganisation and all the strategies you had been helpful for you. And Alison, thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here.

Alison  38:08  
It's been an absolute honour, thank you so much for inviting me to spend a little bit of time with your wonderful, your your community that you've you and Leslie have built it's a phenomenal achievement that the two of you have made with the decluttering of

Ingrid  38:21  
thanks so much. And as per usual, we will put all Alison's details in the show notes, we will again a share her fact sheet that she shall kindly agreed to share with us from challenging this organisation to org website. We'll all put it in the show notes for you have a look at. So thank you listeners, we hope you've learned a lot and we really are so grateful that you're here with us. And thank you so much for taking the time to listen to us. And if you would like to have more tips and advice as always, we are on social media. We are on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook as at declutter hub, and we have a lively, supportive, wonderful, kind Facebook group community called the declutter hub community, and we'd love to see you there. And if you'd like to know more about a membership, have a look at members go to declutter hub.com. We'd love to help you online with courses and live q&a sessions in the membership community. If you don't want to miss the next weekly episode, please subscribe to the declutter hub podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. See you next time.

Intro  39:32  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the declutter hub podcast. Check out declutterhub.com for more inspiration, and don't forget to tune in next week.
Subscribe now so you don't miss an episode
Listen on
Apple Podcasts
Listen on
Amazon Music
Listen on
Spotify
Watch on
YouTube
Prefer to watch rather than listen? Watch on YouTube