A photograph of Kate Ibbotson an expert in decluttering and organising children's toys

Episode 33 – Guest expert, Kate Ibbotson, shares her insight into decluttering and organising children’s toys

In this podcast, Lesley talks to Kate Ibbotson, Yorkshire based Professional Organiser and owner of A Tidy Mind, about decluttering and organising children's toys.

Kate is Mum to six year old twins, Henry and Eva, and knows first hand how difficult it can be to keep toys under control. She shares her insight into how best to handle decluttering and organising children's toys.

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Transcript of this podcast episode

Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The Declutter Hub Podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host, professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

Lesley  0:26  
Hello and welcome listeners to Episode 33 of the declutter Podcast. I'm Lesley if you have clutter and want to sort it out. This is the show for you. In today's podcast, I am so happy to welcome the lovely Kate Ibbotson. Kate Ibbotson is the owner of a tidy mind based in Leeds in West Yorkshire. Kate has run a professional organising and decluttering business for five years and due to her huge success has recently expanded her operations into the West Midlands. Before becoming a professional organiser case study psychology, worked in the mental health sector and the probation service all of which contributed in its own way to shaping her knowledge of how a stable and organised home environment contributes to wellbeing. Now, I met Kate Right at the start of her career and had a feeling straightaway that she will be a shining star in our industry, which he absolutely is, we work together on the board of the Association of Professional organisers and declutters. For some time, and in case the hard works, we always had a laugh. So she was high on our list of guests, people that we wanted on our podcast, Ingrid and I knew we wanted her straightaway. And we couldn't think of a better person to talk about decluttering kids ties. What I didn't mention was that as well as setting up her successful business over the past five years, Kate did this alongside having her now six year old twins. So I think my calculations mean that they were one or between one and two, when you decided to set up your own business, which sounds a little bit crazy to me. But anyway, Henry and Eva are now six years old. So my kids, as you know, are 2320 and 16. So I am a long past toys. And sometimes when my clients asked me to declutter ties, I'm like, Okay, I struggled to know my Polly Pockets, my paw patrol, my love for my Lego. So you are going to help me out. Welcome, Kate.

Kate  2:13  
Hello, Lesley, it's really nice to speak to you.

Lesley  2:16  
So we're going to talk very broadly about kids toys today. And about some of the things that the parents out there might be thinking about in terms of what they need to do to get those crazy play rooms, toy cupboards and bedrooms. back under control.

Kate  2:31  
Yeah, yeah, it was such an overwhelming area concert, you know, it can cause a lot of stress really content?

Lesley  2:37  
Yeah, it absolutely does, you know, toys that they, you know, kids, this is the problem really, because we like kids to play don't wait, oh, let's see. So it has,

Kate  2:46  
and they have to come out, everything has to come out. And that's fine. But it's just, you know, that also needs to be some order as well. So

Lesley  2:52  
the first thing I want to talk about, Okay, if that's alright with you is some of the psychology behind toys and children and how they relate to toys and how we relate to toys as well, psychologically, it was interesting. So I was working with a client yesterday, and we were talking very much about that children need to know that in order to, to have new toys, they want new things all the time. And we facilitate as well throughout the year for the most part. But I was saying to my client yesterday, it's really important then that they realise that in order to bring new things in, something's got to go.

Kate  3:24  
It cheers, isn't it? And I think that the rule of one in one out, it's a basic principle and children, even very young children can understand that, can't they? You know, if they want something new, something else might have to go, they they're going to have room for everything that they that they want.

Lesley  3:41  
And I think that's a really it's a useful principle to start, isn't it? For sure. I mean, when you declutter if you're going from first but if you're going from complete overwhelm, there's going to be need to be more than one that goes out. So you're going to need to a big clutter, but on an ongoing basis, it one in one out. Really good principle to have in your home. Because it can be the volume of toys can be overwhelming for kids as well.

Kate  4:02  
I think it can, you know, and I think it does overwhelm them. And I think a lot of a lot of children, sensory wise, they are overwhelmed. And they don't know how to articulate that, do they? So sometimes, it can result in things being kind of thrown around, because they actually don't know what to do everything is just so overwhelming. And it must be hard, you know, being 234 years old anyway. But you know, you've got all these things around you. And I suppose related as well to the psychology of it, I think very young children are able to understand the concept of things being passed on to those in need as well. So, you know, the donation side, they can understand that, you know, they you know, they can practice that they've got that kindness in their hearts a lot of the time so I think that's lovely.

Lesley  4:49  
Yeah, absolutely. And that's why great parenting comes in, isn't it, you know, trying to explain from a really early age, what you need to do to maintain control what you need to do, you can't they can't Don't just expect to have and haven't haven't not giveaway and things like that. So it's absolutely brilliant, you know if you can do the one in one out, and then think about the charitable giving as well. And I think

Kate  5:10  
a little secret weapon that I often have up my sleeve is we're all children wants to get older and grow out things, don't they think they're getting bigger? You know, they said, not a baby anymore. So when they outgrow toys, then that's actually something to talk to them about. Is it still appropriate for you? Because? Or is this for a younger child in a baby? Yeah.

Lesley  5:32  
I think, you know, as parents, we definitely, we need to teach them. There are so many times when I work with people, and there's very much the idea that and we've all done it, go upstairs and tidy your room. And these kids, these little kids are kind of like, well, I don't know how to do that. Because maybe there's not a system in place or something like that. Or maybe the rest of the house is a little bit chaotic as well. And so, you know, they've not learned effectively.

Kate  6:01  
Yeah, exactly. And they can't necessarily articulate that they don't know how to do it, but they might just feel frustrated. Or I remember when I used to talk to my kids about making their beds. But it was only when I said to them, can you straighten your Dubay and put your pillow at the top of your bed, it was only then that they started making their beds, they didn't know what I meant by make your bed.

Lesley  6:26  
Exactly. And you know, it's interesting, even when even when we work with adults, you know, a lot of times adults that are out of control with clutter in their house, say my mom or my dad never taught me this as a child. And so I just don't know how to do that. And children are the same. So the earlier you can start with that kind of behaviour. So teaching them, the better, really, because you should model the behaviour, the adult should model that behaviour to the children, shouldn't they? Yeah,

Kate  6:51  
definitely. So I think children mimic what we do, that's what they do. They're watching us all the time, aren't they? So for us to do it ourselves and to keep our homes in order, or at least you know, attempt to it's not about perfection is it but just keeping our house in order, but also being positive about that. So not treating it as a chore. And acting like it makes us happy and content to keep our homes in order that is going to filtrate down to the children and they're going to want to do that for their own spaces as well.

Lesley  7:21  
I love this idea, Kate with you, with your six year old twins of having this beautiful house, this is not a chore. That's what I've got in my mind at the moment. Anyway,

Kate  7:32  
I just want to add that things are a complete mess of my home as well. The only differences I know we can get it, we can get it sorted. You know, and not.

Lesley  7:43  
You know, I think the important thing for me has always been I love of course we love our kids to play, we want them to play, we want them to be happy. And in order to do that, for the most part, they're going to make a mess and No, no more so than when they're crafting that way. You know, when that was that sometimes almost tipped me over the edge a long time ago, I was like, Oh, we're gonna like glitter and sequins. And that's important that they're allowed to do that. It's also important that they know that that can't just get leftover all over the dining table and stop us having dinner at night and things like that. So I think it's important to allow them to express themselves creatively, as you say, also important for them to have that order at the end of the day,

Kate  8:23  
and they don't always have to be able to have everything in reach, you know, especially for young children, the craft or the jigsaws with laser pieces, or just things with lots of pieces in they can be supervised activities. So you as the parent can have a bit of control over when that is coming out.

Lesley  8:42  
Definitely. Now that takes us very neatly on to talking about the location of where toys and books and kids things should go in the home. So I wanted to talk a little bit about play rooms because as a as a as a parent, you know, as a new parent, then I think people I'd love to have a play room for my children. Have you got any thoughts on that?

Kate  9:04  
I think it's it the dream is you'd have this play room and everything will be very contained and then the rest of the house will be as you'd have it as an adult maybe but the reality is not like that Is it because children wants to play around us. They want to play in different rooms. They want to drag their toys from room to room. That's part of play, isn't it? So my ideal reality would be if somebody was lucky enough to have a playroom. It wouldn't just be a playroom, it would be a dual use room so it'd be something else as well it would be it would have a sofa in it for chatting and chilling out or it might pray playroom at home is actually has three uses. It's a playroom, it's my office in the corner of it and it's also a living area as well.

Lesley  9:53  
Right okay. Yeah, I think quite often as I say, you know, people do want this playroom and then become disappointed when The kids don't stay in there. But they absolutely and you want that, you know, you don't want them to play on their own, you know, you want them to be around you. I think the important thing about a playroom is it does provide a purpose. And it does provide a kind of storage facility for things so that those toys done impacts permanently on the rest of the house. And so, to me, that's the most important thing about our playroom, it stores everything and categorises everything nicely.

Kate  10:23  
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, you can often build some really nice storage into it, you might also have to have storage in other areas of the house, you know, for toys in their bedrooms, for example, in the living area. And that's fine. But you know, you can conceal that storage quite well these days. So it's not, it's not that you've everything's overrun with toys once everything's tidied away.

Lesley  10:46  
Yeah, definitely. I mean, there's Yeah, toys do tend to sort of find different places in different kinds. But I think the one thing that definitely is sort of scattered around the house is books. So these books have different purposes, don't they? So books are found in lots of different rooms. So where have you got your books for your children in your house coats? Yeah, so

Kate  11:08  
what I have and what I always recommend is a basic organisation principle that you'll be very familiar familiar with Lesley, which is storage as close to a user as possible. So certain books will be starred in the play room or in the living room, and they're the books that I would read, maybe with the children, but they'd be more interactive, they might have noise in them, or, you know, lift the flap up or something like that. Or they would read them on their own, and then in the bedroom, and store the books that are supposed to help them get sleep. That's the idea, isn't it? You know, the quiet calm ones. So yeah, and just, you know, it's if you're the sort of family who love reading, then why not have bookstores everywhere? Because you're gonna use them everywhere on Yeah,

Lesley  11:54  
exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I think there is this There is definitely a sort of delineation isn't there between books that you're going to read to your children, which are going to be, you know, they're not gonna be able to potentially read themselves. And as you said, the kind of more interactive books and things like that, there's no problem with having books in lots of different areas.

Kate  12:12  
But homeschooling is fine, isn't it, you know, you can use the wall to store things higher up. So they're not on the floor, you can use furniture to store them in, you know, Ottoman furniture and that kind of thing.

Lesley  12:25  
Talking about storage thing, Kate, the, I don't know about you, but I'm sure that this is probably the same. The main toy storage that I see in people's homes, is the classic IKEA Kallax unit to move fast unit. So the Calix unit is the one that's got the kind of squares and the little drawers or gifts or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Which I love for all kinds of storage and not just toys, but I think it's particularly good for toys. And then the other one that we see quite a lot, which is more so the Kalex unit. The interesting thing about the collection is that that's I don't think that isn't on display normally in the toy section and the children's section of IKEA. But the Trofast, which is do they set the right name? I think Trofast. Yeah, the Trofast, which is the one that kind of goes on multi levels and has different size boxes in different colours. That it's a modular system, isn't it as well. So a lot of people like that Trofast system as well, which are both brilliant systems. Is that something that you see quite a lot in your work?

Kate  13:30  
Yeah, similar, really. So like you I often see the Kallax unit. And I'm always really happy when I see a Kallax unit, actually the client's home because I know that we can often make improvements to it. And it's a really good starting point. So that's really great. And I love it, because you can build it upwards, you can build it outwards, and you can adapt it to the space. But you Trofast I also think is really good. And again, you can individualise it, can't you? I think the big Trofast containers, you know, the largest ones that they do are great because you know you're going to be able to fit most boys in there. Not all obviously. But then when you get up to the small trays and Trofast, then you're starting to get in the position where you've got overflow, which is never good, because that's when things spill out. I mean, I do often find that with toy storage, people don't have enough of it. I think it's the one area that a lot of my clients, they don't have enough. And they ended up needing to acquire more toy storage.

Lesley  14:34  
So you never you always think that you've got enough but you never have and I would completely agree with that case that if you've got a choice and if you have got quite large volumes of toes, the bigger Trofast storage units and if you want to if you want to see what the Trofast is and what we'll we'll put some links to that in the show notes and you can very easily see Google and see what Yeah,

Kate  14:54  
you don't necessarily have to use the actual Trofast unit. I mean, I've got the large Trofast boxes in my daughter's room, I think we've got six of them because she keeps all the toys in her room. And just on just on simple shelving, not Trofast. But the actual boxes are great.

Lesley  15:11  
Both the Trofast and the Kalex unit have got something in common, which is that they are effectively open boxes. And so what do we think about the difference between because quite often people will ask us, should I put lids on boxes? Or should I leave them open? So I know what I think and what do you yes,

Kate  15:29  
definitely declutter the lid to get rid of it. Because children need to have everything in there I live. So do adults, I think, to a great extent. So I say open containers, possibly transparent containers as well. I mean, IKEA do another one called Sammler. You know, just basic on the boxes. I think they're great, too. I think one of the toy boxes has got an insert in it as well that you can pull in and out. So you can keep more small toys in the insert, insert. And in the bottom of the Sandler box, you can see the bigger toys, right? That's good. So yeah, open top and transparency as possible.

Lesley  16:07  
Because it's all about you know, and this and again, this is exactly the same with with adults, it's not just for children. But what we're trying to avoid here is we're trying to avoid barriers for people, as soon as something's difficult. People don't do it. And so you know, you talked about having things close to where you're going to use them for storing things close to where you're gonna use them, which is rule number one. And then the second thing is don't create any barriers, whether that's in a paperwork system, or a tie system or whatever, if something is difficult to achieve, you're going to be less likely to do it. And so I think it's really it's absolutely critical that we're trying to make it as easy as possible to for these kids to put things away at the end of the day.

Kate  16:44  
Yeah, exactly. You know, it's eight o'clock at night, everybody's tired, you've got five minutes, it is just a case of both the child and the adult, you need to just throw things in, you know, it needs to be easy. And it needs to get in in order within five or 10 minutes, I think that's the only realistic way that things are going to stay ordered.

Lesley  17:04  
So again, that takes us very neatly on K two categorization which I wanted to talk about. Obviously, this is very different, isn't it dependent on the age of the trouble, we're pretty much talking about primary school age children here, younger children, we're not talking about teenagers. And so luckily, by the time it gets to a lot, the toes start to go out. So there is hope listeners, there is hope that these toys disappear over time, it was like, Oh, I was just gonna get completely overwhelmed with this toy mountain, it does go down. So categories are going to be different depending on you know, what the child likes, when it would go, you know, things like that are going to be very, very different. And so what kind of categories do you tend to see working within your toe declutters and organisations.

Kate  17:49  
So I think it does depend on the sort of people that I'm working with, and also the amount of toys they've got. But category wise, I would definitely go for quite fat broad categories. I call them fat categories. So you know, don't don't overcomplicate it, because the end of the day, it's got to be a five to 10 minute tidier at the end of the day. But perhaps I would categorise them into vehicles, dressing, soft toys, noisy toys are the ones that have the tinny sound. Or, you know, maybe even broader, maybe small toys, big toys, soft toys, you know, you could go animals, you could get a little bit you can categorise a little bit more, but I think I would, you know, tend to go broad.

Lesley  18:41  
The kind of figures you know, quite often Yeah, but all the little figures and big figures can go together. Quite, you know, if if people are allowed, which sometimes I don't know whether that's the right thing to say. But you can have kind of weapons and swords and neighbours and things like that can all go together, can't they? I think that but I think you're absolutely right. And I love that term of fat categories, really. So the one thing really with categorization, if you do go really narrow on the categories, I think it's going to be a parent that's going to be doing the tidying rather than the child, isn't it? So these categories are really important so that a child can do that themselves and keep it simple.

Kate  19:17  
Yeah, I think realistically, you as a parent will be actually doing the tidying up. I mean, you can talk to the child about it, can't you while when you're setting these things up so that they feel involved, I think the more involved the child feels, the more likely they are to take responsibility for their toys. So even to the point where you might call the toys certain things. Like my little boy Henry, for example. Because I call one of his categories weapons. He's really excited about tidying that particular category up, you know, because he thinks it's cool, but I think as a parent, you just have to be prepared for the fact that the child might find it easier to just throw everything into very large toy box. You could have one mass If Toy Box per child if you had the room and tidying up is just a case of putting everything back in it at the end of the day.

Lesley  20:06  
Yeah, and I think it's fair to say I mean, I pretty much know when I'm doing a playroom with a client that we're going to make this beautifully organised categorised system, and probably within 24 hours of me leaving, it's gonna be a big jumbled mess. So it can be quite disheartening, sometimes kind of doing times, but it's good to go through it. And obviously, you're going to do great session because you need to gather like with like, so yeah, how much you know, it's exactly the same as normal decluttering it's no different to any other type of decluttering really gather light with why, then you can see what you've got. And then you can discard what you don't need.

Kate  20:39  
I definitely draw the line at colour coding Lego though Lesley, wouldn't you?

Lesley  20:45  
Be making a rod for your own buck with that? But yeah, yeah, no, I don't think so. Maybe maybe when they're 15. And they're still like, colour code their own like, oh, that's what I would say anyway. But yeah, it's just about keeping it simple, isn't it, you need to create a system that's gonna work for the person that is doing it. And that's not too crazy, so crazy on the organisation. One of the other things that I wanted to talk about Kate in terms of what's not really storage, but it's something that we see quite regularly in play rooms, by tables, you know, so these quite often can be just a standard sort of plastic table that they're going to craft on or put something on or play on, or whatever. Or quite often it's these big donut you call and they have kind of like, not train tracks that like car tracks and things like that built into it. 

Kate  21:31  
Yeah.

Lesley  21:32  
What do you think about a table in a playroom?

Kate  21:35  
I think as a parent, I think you really have to ask yourself the question, is it worth the space that it's going to take up before accepting it before buying it or before accepting maybe it being donated to you from somebody else? Because you know, it's a big takes a big impact on a room? Doesn't it? That sort of sized thing. And tables can attract? Clutter, they can attract stuff just been piled on them? So I would say just think about what it's going to be used for. So is the table going to be used for a train set? For example? Well, that could work because that's the home for it. Or, you know, another large toy that I think some of the board games have got a lot of pieces that you can build up. And in order to use anything, you need to have it set up, don't you? It's there's no point having it away in a box somewhere and not using it. So yeah, I would just say think about what the table is going to be used

Lesley  22:29  
for. And I think you're absolutely right there, Kate, which is to really think about how much use and benefit, you're going to get out of something that tends to be quite large, you know, is there anywhere else in the house that could be used for that purpose? And as we spoke about right in the beginning, you know, your kids tend to want to play close to where you are. So could they just use the kitchen table or the dining table to do their jigsaws? Or, you know, could you put a kind of, you know, wipeable tablecloth over your dining table, and they could play there. Because I have to be honest with you, those tables, for the most part, in most of my clients, houses just become dumping grounds. And they're not used as tables, because the kids don't want to play on they want to go on the dining table or the kitchen table. So really, really think about that it's the same as having a chair in your bedroom and piling clothes on it, you have to look at your own behaviours. And again, you know, jumping back to what we spoke about before, about about adults should model good behaviour, you know, if your dining table is full of clutter, then the chances are that your child's play table will also become full of clutter.

Kate  23:29  
Yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, any big item is really got to put some thought into it. And there was a beautiful rocking horse in a client's home the other week, and it was beautiful. But the child just didn't play with it. And I've seen that a lot, actually. And I think sometimes it's just about thinking, how else could that space be used? Because I think children like space, you know, they like a bit of floor space to the ground and danced around and charged around. It's important to you right, you're

Lesley  23:58  
right, you're absolutely right. Because we do get we do get caught up, don't we in a marketing moment really? Well, you know, we want to do so much for our children, and to give them what they what they want, but they they are marketers dreams in the same way that we they want the latest things and things like that, don't they? So really, you're absolutely right. Is it more important for them to have space to dance around? Or is it more important for them to have a fancy table with a track on things when they could actually use them? Their little cars on the floor? You know? Anyway, the same goes for all the large toys, I think kitchens, word is short. And they're cute. They're so cute and you really want your child to have or they take up a lot of space in the room, don't they?

Kate  24:42  
Yeah, they do. They take up a huge amount of space and there's sometimes the child plays with them. Sometimes the child doesn't sometimes a sibling will play with something and then the parent will think that younger siblings are going to play with it but actually they don't. So I'd always say you know really observe what what sort of child you have and whether they are getting some value out of it. But I've noticed it work quite well if you actually like these toy kitchens for example, having that actually in the kitchen. I've seen that work quite well the child playing in the kitchen while everyone else is in there. And toy Hoover's with the actual Hoover, so the child might get their toy Hoover out when when the adults cleaning and hoovering and it just think, you know, why not incorporate things into everyday life as much as you can. I've got

Lesley  25:29  
this idyllic vision of UK to your house with your Dyson and your twins with their two Hoover's. And the last thing that I wanted to talk about actually, within because we spoke briefly about categorization was what do we think about labelling within kids toys?

Kate  25:45  
Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely got its place. I think sometimes it's more for the adult than it is for the child. But I think that's okay. And I think you can make the labels look really attractive. And my favourite labels are the, the adhesive chalk labelling ones. So it kind of chalk paper. So you can use a chalk on the label and it just sticks directly to the box or you know, the shelf, whatever you're labelling, and then obviously, you can then rub that out and change it, things are always going to change, aren't they, they're going to be one label one month, and then it's going to be something else next. Yeah. But I like the way they look. And I think, you know, sometimes you've got wicker baskets, or wire baskets, and you've got those labels that you can tie on, you know, the tag labels, they're quite nice. And sometimes if the child can't read, then you could use pictures instead. So that

Lesley  26:42  
definitely worked on that. And they also help in terms of in terms of tidy up, because any great organisational system is really a system that can be used by anybody that that wants. So if you're looking at you know, a lot of people might have cleaner and things like that, you know, and if you want your cleaners do a bit of tidying up for you and things like that, they can put things away in the right places, rather than the wrong place. Or them to help me which is a bit of a long shot. But you know, yeah,

Kate  27:09  
but you know, you you're more likely to is giving you a home, isn't it, it's giving it a home. And also, I've got a big thing about you know, being tired at the end of the day, because well, I know I am and I know a lot of mums and dads, so you don't really want to think you just wants you someone to tell you where it's going when the label can do that. Yes, right there in front of you.

Lesley  27:32  
Definitely. So labelling is definitely definitely a great thing, isn't it? And you know, the systems that we talked about the Kalex unit and the Trofast Trofast unit in particular, and anything with baskets definitely lend themselves to label in, don't they? Right, okay, so we've spoken about the psychology and we talked about where things should be and various storage ideas. So actually getting children to maintain the sort of tie systems. This isn't that the question is, how do they do that? So have you got any bright ideas with as a mum of two six year olds? How to teach? And how to encode, you're laughing already aren't loving? It's like, yeah, of course.

Kate  28:12  
Yeah, I'm laughing because you know, what, what the theory is, and what the practices isn't always the same as it. And there's, you know, there's loads of things that we all couldn't and maybe should be doing. If we want to make our homes ordered. It's not always doesn't, it's not always going to happen, we're not always going to be able to implement those habits. But when I work with families, I like to talk to them about what is is happening kind of on in the broadest sense in terms of the the acquisition of things into their home. So I always say that you can empty the bath if the taps are still running. So by that, I mean, look at what's coming in, and where's it coming from? And just be aware, because I think, you know, a lot of the time, we're not totally aware of what what that is. And conscious consuming is this term that's bandied around a lot, isn't it. But really, children can very easily understand the fact that there isn't an infinite number of space in the world, that there isn't so much space in the world, that they can have everything. And they can even understand the fact that, you know, not everything can be recycled for a very, very young age. And I would just say, look at ways to reward children that don't involve giving them things, you know, especially plastic and make it the norm that part of a birthday present at least is going to be an experience like trip to the cinema or den building or something in the woods. And I think if you plant that seed when they're quite young, then you know, you can gradually increase that as they get older. So that's what I mean by by conscious consuming and also, talking to them about passing their toys on to other children who don't have as much as they do, again, is a concept that they can use Stand, and it can make them feel good about themselves doing a good deed and showing kindness, that's going to give them that warm feeling inside. And you know, it's just, it's not about expecting things to change straightaway. So I think it's just about having these conversations as part of everyday life. You're, you're getting that seed in, and you know, they're going to, they are going to start thinking about that more as they get older, and they start forming their own ideas. And I

Lesley  30:26  
think that's absolutely reinforced all the time at schools and nurseries, you know, you know, we see ourselves, you know, just in the last 18 months or two years with the sort of highlight of single use plastic. Yeah, I know, it's been around a long time, but it's really, really common to the sort of public domain hasn't had the last couple of years. And it's important for us to do that. Because we do, there are so many reasons why we buy our kids things, and some of them are not great, some of them because we feel guilty because we feel that we've not given them enough time, because we're busy at work. And those are all normal human emotions. But it's about they, as you said, right at the beginning que they will mimic what we say. And they'll, you know, take that on board. And so it's really important to just think and to try and not always buy them something because it just then leads, it's a kind of protective self perpetuating thing, isn't it? They get more and more and more than become really overwhelmed. And then there's too much then you become overwhelmed. And it's a tough one. You know, we've talked about it in, in half an hour today, but you know, get your kids toes under control is really hard.

Kate  31:24  
Yeah, exactly. It is difficult. And sometimes the toys are the things are coming in from an other another relative maybe like a grandparent. And I think that's that's difficult, isn't it? Because then you know, you don't want to seem ungrateful. But again, maybe it's about thinking about talking to that relative about experiences that you could have where you're a bit more connected as a family. And it doesn't involve actually buying things. Yeah, it's but it's a drip drip approach, isn't it? It's like, it's a long name.

Lesley  31:57  
Yeah, it is. And it's hard to be focused on everything all the time, isn't it? You know, it's, it's a tough job to be a parent. And this is just one. Right? So to answer this to me, Kate, so they go to school or four years old and right in right from the word go or even a playgroup. Right from the word go, they can the teacher can say, right, okay, kids is tidy up time, and they can all put everything away, and everything's perfect. But if we go, Okay, kids, you tidy up time, it's hard seven at night. They're like, No, I don't think so. So what's the difference between a teacher and a parent?

Kate  32:31  
I think consistency is probably the difference. It's a mix of the teacher or is being consistent and also peer pressure, because everybody's doing the same thing, isn't it? So I think often as parents and I include myself in this, I'll say one thing one day, and I'll say another thing the next day. So obviously, they're going to be thinking she doesn't mean it. So it's interesting system. Yeah,

Lesley  32:57  
it is. And I think it's also you're absolutely right, you know, it's a kind of doing everybody doing things together and peer pressure and things like that. But it's also it's like when we're doing when we're doing an organising session. So if we're doing a four or five hour session with a client, we will factor in tidy up time, to tidy up time is essential. But a kind of tidying up and sorting things out at the end of our session. And as professionals, we will do that every time. And so we know that everything is orderly when we leave that client that day. And so I think it's getting to that point. But again, we've got dinner to put on, we've got phone calls, we've got social media, we've got lots of things that are pulling on our time. And like, you know, it's easy for us to do that, isn't it when we're working, because we've got to find things, and we're there and we've got the clients attention for that four or five hours. And so but I think it is important within a sort of play session, to think in advance, if you can, about how much time it's going to take realistically to get that play room, living room bedroom, back to some kind of reasonable state at the end of the day.

Kate  33:58  
Yeah, and I think they need a bit of warning, you know, so they might need a five minute warning that that's going to happen soon. So we're gonna tidy up in five minutes or 10 minutes, they might need two warnings. And they also might need a carrot on a stick, you know, so mine will be able to watch some TV after they've tied it up after we've tidied up because we know we're a team, and we kind of do it together. But that's what's going to happen first.

Lesley  34:27  
Now it's really important to get those those routines in place and to show that you mean business. And you know, I'm still sitting here with a 23 year olds 20 year old and a 16 year old life is not still I still pick up after them at mines just like picking up boxer shorts off the bathroom floor and towels and that have not been it's not to me, so it doesn't really go away. But they do have an understanding, I think of what tidiness looks like and what organisation looks like. I'm not saying that they always achieve it, but I think they know what that is. And I think that's It's really critical.

Kate  35:01  
Yeah, I mean, what exactly we're trying to teach them life skills, aren't we we're trying to equip them for adult life. And at the end of the day, they will have to learn for themselves when they have their own space, whether that's the student room or, or whatever, or their own flat, all we can do is sow the seeds in their minds, and then time will tell, you know, they'll hopefully be better equipped than they would be if we hadn't.

Lesley  35:26  
Exactly, exactly. Just one thing that I wanted to talk about, which again, gets bandied around this is where the kind of magazines and things and social media comes in. With children's children and parents and and things like that, quite often we hear about rotation of toys. So rotating them out sort of seasonally or every six months, what are your thoughts on rotation of toys? Kate? Yeah, I

Kate  35:51  
think I don't generally recommend it, I recommend being able to have the right amount of stuff for your home at the time. But I think if there already is maybe an excess, and you don't want to let it go, then it could work in some circumstances. So you could take the toy away, store it somewhere, if you've got a storage room, take it out after a few months, and replace it with something else stuff stored away. Now for my children, they wouldn't have allowed me to take one of their toys away, and then return it in a few months that would have caused a major issue. So I've never done it. And also ask yourself, realistically, are you going to do that you'd creating another task for yourself? Having to take it out of storage and replace it? Do you have the sort of lifestyle that's going to lend itself to that sort of personality that's going to it's going to do that

Lesley  36:46  
is a very meticulous person that's going to do that? I mean, I'm a professional organiser, and so are you. But I know that I wouldn't have the organisational systems in place in my mind to do that, suddenly, we're going to people with a lack of proficiency as professional organisers, but no, you're absolutely right. And you know, you're talking about access, but I've got to be honest, and this is my my own house included. It always looks excessive, when you've got children, the amount of toys always looks excessive, doesn't it? Just the amount of things, you know, even just the categories, if you've got jigsaws and board games and books and things and kitchens and crafts stuff, even that just in itself, even if you've only got one box of each, it's still a lot of stuff, isn't it? You know, things that tend to be big for children. So it is completely overwhelming. And I would say that for the parents of young children, that's the probably the most overwhelming thing that most parents have got to deal with, is that kind of kids toys on where are these gonna go, and modern homes that are not huge and have not got play rooms and have not got basements and huge exposure to storage, we have to make that work within their own house, but kind of counterbalance that, then with kind of trying to keep the kids happy and creative and play playful and things like that. So it's a tough one. So talking about parenting, then the last thing that I wanted to talk about really was what we do once the kids have outgrown their toys, but we've got such special memories of those toys that we don't want to let go off. So keeping toys for sentimental reasons.

Kate  38:17  
Yeah. I mean, you know, it's, it's often about the adults decision that something's going to be sentimental. It's not always going to be like that for the child is it? And I think that's difficult to accept sometimes as an adult, that they're not going to have that sentimentality about it, you know, will a photo survive? So that's the starting point, you know, can kind of two dimensional reproduction be better than keeping the actual thing? So I think that's something to think about. At the end of the day, it's only stuff, isn't it? You know, it's not, it's not a person, it doesn't have feelings. And it's valuable at the time. But there's plenty of other memories that can represent that era of time. Without keeping a large toy.

Lesley  39:12  
You're absolutely right. And you can't let that overwhelm you. You know, the memories are still there, aren't there you can you know that your kids hopefully had happy childhoods, and were able to play and you know, and that's the most important thing to keep and kind of Thomas the Tank Engine figure is not going to make that any sort of more prominent of a memory really.

Kate  39:31  
Yeah, exactly. I mean, a lot of nurseries and schools these days do books, and scrapbooks, I guess, where they they take photographs of the children and they take in nursery they take photos of the toys that they're playing with and then obviously as they get to primary school is it's more learning based, but I think it's amazing. I mean, they're doing the hard work for you. They're making this scrapbook that takes up hardly any room of a whole year of your child's life. So you could do the same at home or you could just use what what they do for you maybe

Lesley  40:05  
exactly that. Well, we talked about sentimentality with children in last week's podcast if anyone's not listened to it, and I don't want to end on a low because is it? Is it a low? Or is it high cash? It's all like, oh, mixture of a mixture of both. Which makes me so happy to talk about children. Because even though I'm kind of well beyond that, yeah, it's just such a special time. And the most important thing is allowing your kids to be creative to play, but making sure that you're not completely overwhelmed and consumed with stuff. But yeah, they're doing that. So create some routines for yourself and try and keep things under control and organised in your home. Want to say a massive, massive thank you. Okay, so that's the end of our lovely toys. And so thank you so much for everything that you've done. And listeners. Thanks for taking the time to listen today. If you'd like to get more tips and advice, please follow us on social media. We're on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and have a lively supportive Facebook group community, which is called the declutter hub community come and find us. We'd love to see that. If you don't want to miss the next weekly episode, subscribe to the declutter podcast on iTunes, Spotify and Stitcher, and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. Thanks very much again, Kate. If you want to know more about Kate. Kate, tell us your website address.

Kate  41:26  
Yeah, so it's a tidy minds.co.uk And I'm on Instagram as a tidy mind and they and Facebook as a tidy mind HQ. So and I do a blog. Most weeks I do a blog on the website as well and I'd love to chat with you and hear from you.

Lesley  41:44  
Thank you ever so much, Kate. It was an absolute pleasure and our listeners we will see you all next time for

Outro  41:49  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The declutter hub podcast. Check out declutterhub.com For more inspiration, and don't forget to tune in next week.

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CREATING A CLUTTER-FREE AND ORGANISED HOME WITH YOUNG CHILDREN – A GUEST BLOG BY KATE IBBOTSON

Kate Ibbotson, our guest blogger, is a Professional Organiser who owns A Tidy Mind in West Yorkshire, The Midlands and South London. As Mum to six year old twins, Henry and Eva, she knows better than most how critical it is to have an organised home.

Creating A Clutter-free & Organised Home With Young Children

Being a mum of 6 year old twins myself, I’m a realist – perfection is not the end goal here – but a chaotic home can have an impact. Did you know that research indicates that clutter and disorder increases stress levels for both parents AND children?

Here are my top tips for a calmer home and head with kids:

Model the behaviour you want to see

Often when working with families, I find children are being asked to tidy their rooms but they’re unsure about what that means. Younger children can get very frustrated & older children despondent. If your child’s bedroom is untidy, firstly make sure you’re modelling the behaviour you’re asking of them i.e. keeping your own spaces in order. And secondly offer to help them tidy & help them think of habits that will maintain their tidy space and an organised home.

You're a team

From a young age, you can encourage children to take some responsibility for their spaces and help with achieving an organised home. Hard as it is, resist the urge to ‘do it for them’ but at the same time, try to give specific instructions e.g. to straighten the duvet and pillow on their bed when they get up each morning. It’s good to get into the habit of ‘tidying up time’ at the end of each day - they will do this at nursery and primary school anyway. Make it a team effort and fun by putting on music or setting a timer. And incentivise it – perhaps tidy up time has to happen before they receive a treat such as watching TV.

Observe and listen

What counts as clutter is very individual to each child so watch your children closely as they play. What gives them pleasure and what frustrates them? Some may love their vast collection of Lego. Yes each and every piece! Others never touch it. Just because an older sibling played in a certain way, it doesn’t mean a younger one will. Don’t keep things because you somehow feel you should. It’s better to pass on the toy to a child for whom it WILL bring joy.

Be patient

Unless they are very young, it’s best to involve them in any decluttering so you build trust and so that they learn how to do it! Get them to look at each and every toy and ask them whether they use it and love it. You may think they will say “yes” about everything but you might be surprised. Even if they refuse to let anything go at first, you will at least have planted the seed that ‘things’ are potentially fluid and they can come and go from our lives and help towards an organised home.

Promote conscious consuming

Encourage them to value experiences as well as things and make it the norm that ‘a present’ can be a cinema trip as well as a toy. Let them see you buy toys second hand and explain that you’re extending the life of it and supporting a charity or individual. Also, because you pay a fraction of the cost, you’ll feel less guilty if you pass things on again afterwards. Involve your child in the process of donating to charity and discuss why other children might need their toys. By encouraging them to pass their old toys on, you can empower them, make them feel good about themselves and send an important message: it’s is well documented that doing things for others makes us happier in the long term.

Get the right storage

When it comes to toy storage, I find many people don’t have enough of it. Make sure toys are easy to put away (simple but large sliding drawers or boxes). You might want to separate into categories i.e. jigsaws, vehicles, dress up, instruments etc or just keep it simple and have a large chest for each child. Most families find it necessary to have toy storage in more than one place i.e. in a bedroom and living area so choose storage you like looking at and that goes with the rest of the décor.

It's good to follow these basic principles to create some level or order. But be prepared to embrace the chaos too - a home with children playing is never going to be minimal or tranquil!

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