A photograph of Juliet Landau-Pope smiling wearing a blue blouse

Episode 20 – Guest expert Juliet Landau-Pope talks about procrastination

In this podcast, we welcome our guest Juliet Landau-pope, expert in procrastination and author of 'What's your excuse for not being more productive'.

Guest interview with Juliet Landau-Pope, owner of JLP Coach, working in London. Juliet is a coach, professional organiser, study skills expert, mentor, editor and author of 2 books. We talk about overcoming your excuses, stop procrastinating and getting things done.

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Transcript of this podcast episode

Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The Declutter Hub Podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

Ingrid  0:29  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 20 of the Declutter Hub Podcast. I'm Ingrid, if you have clutter and want to sort it out, this is the show for you. In today's episode, we're talking to Juliet Landau Pope, owner of JLP coach working in London. She's a coach, professional organiser study skills expert, and she knows everything about procrastination. Juliet is an Oxford graduate has experience of working in adult education as a university lecturer, researcher, editor, mentor, coach and consultant. Juliet started her company JLP, coach in 2008, and over services that include practical decluttering, clutter coaching, and study skills for teenagers. She is also the author of two books, what's your excuse for not clearing your clutter? And what's your excuse for not being more productive? Juliette and I have both been actively involved in the UK Association of Professional declutters and organisers, she as head of training, and I as president, we've been great friends for about six years now. And we still need training for new professional organisers together. Thank you so much for being on the show. Juliet.

Juliet  1:52  
I'm really thrilled to be here. Ingrid, thank you for inviting me.

Ingrid  1:55  
You're very, very welcome. I mean, I'm really excited about what we're going to talk about today. And our main focus is going to be to talk about procrastinations. And since you have written a whole book about it, I'm wondering how did you become an expert on procrastination?

Juliet  2:13  
Well, I have to say it's a lifelong project. I, as you know, I'm not a naturally organised person, I'm someone who's learned to be organised. And I can draw my own experience. My background, as you said, is in education. And for many years, I witnessed students and lecturers as well procrastinating I witnessed other people and I experienced it myself because it's just endemic in the university life. And then when I became a professional organiser, which was about 10 years ago, I realised that even though I was working in a different sphere with different types of people, it doesn't matter how old you are, doesn't matter what kind of home you live in, what kind of background you have, people still get stuck. People suffer from lack of confidence, they avoid things that they want to do. And I've realised that it's just a universal feature. And I became really fascinated by it. So I've read lots of books, I've been on courses. And I have to confess, when people ask me what my qualification is, I say that I have an unfinished PhD in my loft. I myself, procrastinated for over seven years, writing a PhD that I never finished, and became, I say, I have a PhD in procrastination. I never finished it. But I learned everything there is to know about procrastination through my own experience. And now I'm I'm I'm an expert on helping people to avoid the kind of mistakes that I made. So it's my own life experience that has taught me

Ingrid  3:48  
I see. Well, I think for full disclosure, listeners, this is really true. Because Juliette, and I've travelled together. So I'm a bit of a messy this

Juliet  4:04  
person. But I learn. I learned from you, Ingrid, I've learned a great deal from you. But, you know, they say we teach what we need to learn. And I'm constantly learning and putting into practice the things that I teach, I do my best I do live by the motto that we need to walk our talk. And I'm putting into practice the strategies that I teach other people to, and I'm getting that.

Ingrid  4:34  
Thank you for your honesty, Juliet. Because I think that's what it's all about in this podcast, to be honest, and be real life, people in real life, things that we all have to deal with. So let's just can you tell us exactly what procrastination is? Because it seems like a word that's being thrown around everywhere. But what is it?

Juliet  4:56  
Yes. So I sometimes ask my clients to describe Like, how they feel when they're procrastinating in order to understand what exactly they're doing, and sometimes they did they describe it metaphorically like wading through treacle or feeling like there's a heavy burden on their shoulders. And what they really mean when they're facing something that they don't want to do is either avoiding something we all avoid, whether it's a pile of ironing or paperwork that needs to be filed, or homework that needs to be tackled. It's things that you know, you need to do things that you might actually want to do. But you just can't get around to doing it. That's the most common form of procrastination. But there's another one which doesn't get talked about so often, which is when we start something really enthusiastically like, you might decide to declutter your kitchen, you empty out all the cabinets, and, and then you look at all the mess and you think, Oh, my goodness, what have I done? How do I move forward, and you just feel stuck. So it's making, it's when you make the start, but then you can't finish the task. And when you've got unfinished projects around the house, and I find that clutter often arises, because people have started something, but they can't finish it. And that's also a form of procrastination. So it's both getting snot being able to get started and then not being able to finish.

Ingrid  6:17  
Interesting because I kind of always saw procrastination as something that you can't get started on. But I think it's very true. Because when I do talks for groups, I always give an example of things that are clutter in somebody's home. Yes, give an example of you know, because I speak to a lot of church groups and women's groups, and I normally an elderly groups as well. And I say, Are there anything that you have knitting, or that you're crocheting? Or that you're? Yes, yes, it was enthusiastically started on many, many years ago, but it's still lurking in your cupboards, and you still haven't finished it. And I see that as clutter as well. So

Juliet  6:54  
yeah, absolutely. And I think, procrastination. Now, it's kind of the aspirational clutter when you buy the book, or you buy the arts and crafts materials. And you might start we've all seen those unfinished craft projects or those but but also the paperwork that doesn't make its way to the filing cabinet or into the desk or where it needs to be. Even though you might start off thinking today, I'm really going to do it, I'm going to tackle it. But something gets in the way. And we can talk about that a bit later on about why people procrastinate. But it's not always avoiding things.

Ingrid  7:31  
Super, super interesting. So for our listeners, so are you already thinking about things that you started yourself at home? And that you are either have not started yet? Or are you in the middle of and you can't seem to finish? So maybe listeners there, this is a good moment to have a think about those projects and ask yourself, you know, why am I procrastinating about it? So that's my next question. Why do we procrastinate?

Juliet  7:54  
Well, it's really interesting. You asked me that Ingrid, because as a coach, and you've probably heard me say this before, as a coach, I don't encourage people to ask the question why I think you can get lost in your head, you could actually sit, we could have a conversation all day. And you could or you could sit and talk about why we do things or why we don't do things. And it's fascinating. I think procrastination usually stems from fear. It's either fear of failure, not getting things, right. Or it's fear of success. What happens if I do this, and it leads on to something else? But generally, I don't think it's terribly helpful. To look at why we do things, I think it's more important to think about, what do I want to do? How am I going to do it? What help do I need? Who can help me? When am I going to start all those more practical motivational questions? I think the key thing when people say, Why do I procrastinate, the key thing for me is to recognise that it's a habit. It's not a personality trait. It's something that you've learned to do over time, maybe you've been influenced by something somebody said to you in the past, maybe it's a result of a difficult experience you've had in the past, that you can go into lots of conversations with other people or with yourself about that. But just recognising it's a habit. And we all acquired habits, just I think clutter is a habit as well. And then we've discussed this too, that clutter can accumulate over time, and then and then it just becomes part of your life. And the same way as procrastination. We learn to procrastinate from a very early age over something sometimes kids can, you know, avoid tidying up the rooms or avoid doing their homework or avoid having difficult conversations or avoid making decisions. And then you it becomes a habit, but I don't dwell too much on the Y I'm much more interested in. What are we going to do about it and how you and I share?

Ingrid  9:55  
Yeah, that's that's a true, true Declutter. Coach spoken up. But we look at solutions and opportunities instead of looking back, you know,

Juliet  10:07  
we don't want to analyse things too much, because it becomes too theoretical. And yeah, it's fascinating, but it's not motivating.

Ingrid  10:16  
Okay, I like that. So you have written like I said, You've written a whole book about what you've actually written two books. But the book we're talking about today is, what's your excuse for not being more productive, overcome your excuses, stop procrastinating and get things done. And in your book, you describe eight reasons. Well, they're called excuses, but I call them more reasons. And you talk about different reasons like time, knowledge, mood, tasks, fears, responsibility, self belief, and results. And, of course, I read your book. But I'm particularly interested to chat about four of these eight reasons. So I would like to talk to you about time, mood, fears and responsibility. So let's just go through them one by one. So our listeners can keep following what we're talking about. And shall we start with time? So

Juliet  11:15  
can I just can I just qualify something? You said that because you've suggested these reasons, and I just wanted to explain that the way I wrote them was nice reasons. Not so much as explanations, but then more about the stories that we tell ourselves, okay, worries, and stories that we, we create, we get stuck in our stories. So we tell ourselves things about the world or about how we perceive ourselves. And my whole approach is to, is to question what is the story that you're telling yourself in this situation? And then how can we look at it from a different perspective? And then how can we, how can you shift the story and then move into action? So it's not so much dwelling on why we do things? Like I said before, it's more about what do you have? What's really going on here? What are you telling yourself? How was that stopping you? How is that feeling your procrastination, and let's look at it a bit more closely. So when it comes to time, you asked me about time, very often people have misjudged the time that they have, they say, I don't have enough time, or I'm too busy. Or, yeah, I don't have time for this project over I don't have time to sort out my wardrobe. And what they really mean, let's dig a little bit deeper. What did they say when they say I don't have time? We all have the same amount of time, you've probably heard that, you know, we all have 24 hours a day. And and it's a question of how do we use that time? How do we decide what is to prime? What what is? What are we prioritise? That is the key thing. So when someone says to me, I didn't have time, what I'm really hearing is I'm not making this a priority. And we we do the things that matter in our lives. Obviously, there are things that, you know, if you don't have the resources, or if you don't have the health or you don't have the physical capability, there are things that restrict us. But when it comes to time, how do you spend your time? What else are you doing with your time? How much time are you spending on social media? How much time are you spending doing things that you perhaps don't realise how much time you're spending on? Let's let's make it a priority. So if it's a priority to, you know, if you had to move house, if you had a guest coming to stay, if you were redecorating, you would find the time to sort out the things in your home that you need to tackle because you'd have a deadline, you'd have an incentive. So let's look at what's really going on with time. And when people say they're too busy. Again, that's another story, which I often hear I'm too busy to do this, that or the other I'm too busy to, to clear up my loft or I'm too busy to clear the surfaces on my kitchen. Let's look at we live in a world where we're kind of I talked about busy bravado, we're all obsessed with being busy. So how often do people when you ask them how they are they say, Oh, I'm so busy. And they're all in a tizzy, because we're all so busy. Why don't we just slow down a little bit and look at what really matters in our lives let's look at does it really matter to you to live in a neat, tidy minimalist home? Or do you want to just make a few little adjustments that would make your life and your home and your family life? More more manageable? more pleasant you would you enjoy? And it might mean making just a little change not revolutionising your whole life. So let's look at just quit the busy privado and slow down and make a little space. Let's declutter your schedule and think about how you can look at time differently and then learn to manage time differently.

Ingrid  14:53  
What I really liked in this topic as well, is that on the Antabuse you said, you have to learn to say no Oh,

Juliet  15:01  
oh, it's so difficult, isn't it?

Ingrid  15:06  
Much. So

Juliet  15:07  
I think it's a constant struggle for many of us, especially people who have a lot of commitments, whether it's family work, community commitments, hobbies, all sorts of other things. And people who enjoy life, you know, we enjoy taking on responsibilities, we enjoy going out with friends, we enjoy doing things and being active. But sometimes, you need to just stop and breathe, and focus on what really matters. Maybe, maybe I need to stay home and have an early night, instead of chasing around like crazy. Maybe I need to just make a little space to catch up with my paperwork and get make sure my tax return is done on time. So there are times when we need to say no, not just to other people, but also saying no to ourselves. And that's when it's difficult, because we're not we don't learn these skills, we very often don't learn how to say no, and how to say no without apologising as well. That's a very cultural thing. It's a very British thing to say, I'm so sorry. But actually, you don't always have to apologise for setting boundaries and setting limits and saying, saying, No,

Ingrid  16:20  
listeners, I love this. So I don't know, how about you, but I'm learning as well as, as I'm speaking to do that. I'm thinking to myself, yes, I've been saying a lot of Yes, recently, I need to say no more often. This is also very good for me to hear this.

Juliet  16:36  
I love to I love telling people that no is a positive word. And I guess a lot of bad press can be a really positive thing too.

Ingrid  16:44  
Wonderful for wonderful advice. There's a couple of other things under time that I thought were fascinating. One of the things you also say I still have plenty of time, the perception of time, I thought that was really interesting. Can you can you say a bit more about

Juliet  17:00  
it again, it's really interesting that we don't we learn as children to tell the time so we might learn how to read time on a clock. But we don't really learn how to estimate time. So how long is it going to take me to do this, if it's gonna take me five minutes, I might think it's gonna take me five minutes to answer an email. But then I get lost in my own thoughts, and I get a bit distracted. And that email might end up taking me half an hour instead of five minutes. And I've lost that time, without even noticing where it's gone. So there's, there's under estimating how long things are going to take. And that can be an issue when you think, Oh, I'm just going to sort out this one draw, I'm just going to take out my socks and my underwear, and I'm going to sort out my drawer. And then you don't realise how many emotions and fears and anxieties and all sorts of things will come up and you'll get stuck. That's when procrastination happens. So there's mismanaging time on underestimating time. But there's also the just not knowing how long things are going to take. And thinking that it's going to take you forever, sometimes it's the other way around, you can overestimate. So you think I'm not going to sort out that wardrobe, because it's gonna take me all day, and I haven't got a whole day to do it. Whereas I would say, let's just start with 15 minutes. It's amazing what you can accomplish. Let's break it down into chunks. And let's not do the whole wardrobe. Let's just look at your black T shirts, how many black T shirts have you got, and let's just look at those 1015 minutes, as you know, to encode you can get a lot done in a really short space of time. So it's that ability to look at time in I like to think about time as chocolate, I often make my clients laugh. And I say time is like chocolate, you can look at it as a block, you can have like a three hour block or a day. And you can have a dedicate a big chunk of time to a project. Or you can use a little sprinkles, you know there's a little I know you're Dutch and I know you know all about chocolate sprinkles what they called in Dutch, but I wouldn't even try to pronounce. But then like the little 10 minute 10 minute 15 minute tasks that you can do. So that's the little sprinkles of time. And when you see time as it becomes more manageable and it becomes much more creative as well.

Ingrid  19:30  
Wonderful. I would like to do one more thing because I think this is so time I love this whole time thing that we're talking about. So I love your thing. Someday isn't a day of the week. That's one of my favourite quotes of you. I love that and I use it all the time.

Juliet  19:48  
I have to admit it's not entirely original. I think I saw it on Twitter somewhere but I use it all the time as well.

Ingrid  19:56  
I think it's so fascinating because people say I'm going to out do it someday, or I'm going to need it someday. And yes, so vague, isn't

Juliet  20:04  
it? Yes. And I think one of the reasons we hold on to clutter very often is that uncertainty of when we might need something. And so like you, I will say to somebody, I'll say to a client, if you can name a specific occasion, when you're gonna use it, like, I'm gonna wear this hat when I go to a wedding, or I'm gonna wear this coat when I go to a funeral, or I'm gonna need that book, when I prepare for that exam. That is fine. But if it's someday I might need this, then let's look a little bit more closely at the story that you're telling yourself. Yeah,

Ingrid  20:36  
very, very interesting. Okay, let's move on to mood. You've got a chapter about mood, and you discuss everything. So take the floor, Julianne. So what is it that you would like to share about mood?

Juliet  20:49  
Well, I think one another is another set of stories that we tell ourselves around when we procrastinate is, the most common one is I'm overwhelmed, I just don't know where to start. It's just too much. I'm too tired, I don't feel like it. I'm not ready. All these feelings that relate to how how we are, we're not in the mood, basically, I'm not in the mood to sort out my shoes. And the fact is decluttering on your own can be really daunting. And it can be really boring. And it can be very difficult, which is why there are professional organisers and dictators like us around. But if someone is trying to do it on their own, I would say, you don't have to be in the mood. Are you ever in the mood to brush your teeth, you just get on to it? Are you ever in the mood to who was ever in the mood to do their tax return? Honestly, there are things in life that we know we have to get on and do. And there are things that we if you focus on the benefit, if you try and turn it into a positive goal, you can see visualise the kind of room that you want to wake up in, or the kind of wardrobe that you want to be greeted by in the morning, and break things down into into bite sized tasks I mentioned earlier about doing little taking little steps, so that you can be less overwhelmed. Don't let your mood be the obstacle, because actually, if you can find a way to take just one step, you can lift your mood. I mean, it's so it's so liberating. And it's so there's nothing, nothing beats the feeling of crossing something off your to do list. Or taking a bag to the charity shop or just feeling that sense of achievement because you've accomplished something that you've been wanting to do for some time, whether it's decluttering, or whether it's, you know, something relating to your work or a hobby. So don't get stuck with a mood, let your mood acknowledge it. I'm not saying don't, I'm not saying you should ignore it, acknowledge it, and find a way to take one small step. And that can that can help to lift the mood.

Ingrid  23:00  
Yeah, you've got a really lovely quote to your book saying, there is almost no such thing as ready there is only now, if you wait,

Juliet  23:09  
people quote from my book, and I don't remember.

Ingrid  23:13  
I think it was a quote by somebody else, but I thought it was good to have in your book because it makes you realise that if you wait for the perfect moment, and the perfect timing, you feel ready you already you feel like you're on top of everything. Yeah, so when might never come?

Juliet  23:29  
You know? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's so true. And

Ingrid  23:33  
creating those habits, isn't it? Yeah, creating the habits and,

Juliet  23:37  
and taking those first small steps. Just the very first step I like to think about, I tell clients about visualising and then defining what is the very first thing that you need to do. And for some of our clients, that might mean literally opening the wardrobe door or opening it or going into a room. I mean, you might have a room in your house that you haven't actually dared to go into for some time. Or you might have a suitcase that you haven't looked in or, you know, a box of papers that you haven't dared look at. It's just lifting the lid and peeking inside and saying I can do this. I don't have to be ready I can do this.

Ingrid  24:19  
Yeah, yeah, fascinating stuff. Also wanted that I took from your book is when you say I'm too tired, maybe you're a bit dehydrated and you need a bit more water. So if you're feeling tired, it might not only be that you need to get some more sleep and you need to work with your body clock, but also make sure that you drink water and that's exactly what I say as well all the time to my clients is have a break and have a glass of water to keep the energy up so I thought that was a really good reminder as well for also for myself again, to to make sure that you keep that balance of not getting dehydrated. So I thought that was very, very interesting. Oh, okay. Is there anything else you would like to add to this Juliet about mood? Or shall we move on to fears?

Juliet  25:06  
Yeah, let's talk about fear, because that's a very juicy topic. How scary is clutter? How scary is the unknown, it's not taking, taking a step in a new direction, starting something new, can be really scary. So I mean, we're talking about clutter, but, but it can be true of starting a new job or starting a new relationship. Anything new and different is scary, however, unpleasant, the current situation is taking a step to change make changes can be scary. I posted something on my Facebook page last year on Halloween. That said, Forget ghosts and ghoulies there's nothing more scary than the clutter under my bed. It's so many likes, and so many people responding to that. Because I think we we put things in boxes and bags and shove them up in the loft or down in down in the basement or at the back of the garage. And we don't want to look at them. And especially paper, that's particularly scary, because you don't know what it what it holds, you don't know what you're going to find. And I think opening up boxes and bags or looking into scary spaces, takes you back into the past makes you confronts you with decisions reminds you of things you haven't accomplished are things that you will never do you know, clothes that will never fit you, or books that you will never read or photographs of people that you may never see again, there can be lots of sadness and lots of pain, it can be a very painful experience again, which is why much of our role as professional organisers is to support our clients and just to be with them. Sometimes we don't have to do the work. We don't do the work for them. But we are just present, offering our support and empathy and just witnessing the difficult emotions that come up and just helping them to acknowledge how scary it is. And it's also scary sometimes to make decisions to worry, am I making the right decision? Am I holding onto something or letting something go? Am I giving it to the right person? Those decisions can be scary as well. So I think there's a lot of reasons why fear holds us back. And there's a lot of reasons why it's rewarding and liberating to work through that fear. And actually to not not let it hold you back. But I think it's important to acknowledge. Yeah, and I think some of Mike, I think many of my clients and I'm sure you'll agree, because we've talked about this before, are incredibly brave. I think it's a very brave step to acknowledge that something in your life or in your in your home or in your life needs to change. It's very brave to ask for help to phone somebody or email someone say I can't do this on my own. I'd like to find out how you can help me. And I think it's very brave to take those first few steps and bravery.

Ingrid  28:18  
And it doesn't necessarily need to be professional organiser it can be it can be a neighbour, it can be a family member. Yes,

Juliet  28:24  
definitely. Yeah. But just saying I'm ready for this, I'm ready to make some changes. And I'm not going to procrastinate anymore. I'm going to kick this habit. And I'm going to take those first few steps.

Ingrid  28:38  
Yeah. Because of course, if you don't do anything, the situation can really create even more anxiety and stuff that can go wrong. Even worse. I mean, by not opening the post, that fine that used to be 50 pounds, can now escalate into 200 pounds or 500 pounds or what dollars or whatever it is. Because you haven't taken the action because you're so afraid of opening that envelope. Yes, that's true. And do something straight away.

Juliet  29:09  
Yeah. And the fact is, nothing is so fearful as anxiety itself. We often worry about things that that when they we worry about I mean, I worry about going to the dentist and every time I go to the dentist I I think to myself afterwards, why was I so worried about that? I built it up into such an anxiety and then it wasn't that bad. And actually many of my clients will say to me, I was I was dreading this, but actually it turned out to be really fun. And I'm so glad it was difficult, but I'm glad we did what we did. So I think and sometimes the fear is bigger than we we make it bigger than it needs to be. Yeah.

Ingrid  29:49  
So tip listeners, take a deep breath and let all those worries go and and get started and get started with whatever step it is Lastly, I would like to talk about responsibility. Juliette? So what would you like to share with us about responsibility?

Juliet  30:09  
Well, just as you mentioned earlier that we don't learn how to say, no. We need to learn how to delegate, we don't have to do everything. Whether you're a control freak, or a supermom, or a successful professional who's used to making all the decisions, sometimes it really pays to let other people get on with the job, whether it's delegating to other members of your family or to other members of your team, or just saying to yourself, This doesn't have to be my job, I don't have to do everything. And I think one of the reasons that people procrastinate is thinking, they're overwhelmed, because only I can do it. And I think, you know, as, as business owners, learning to let go of some of that responsibility, find people find the right people that you can delegate to find the right person who can do the job. But also know it doesn't have to be done exactly the way that you would do it. I love the quote from my friend Rifka. Caroline, says that when her young child makes his bed, it doesn't have to be perfect. But if she's jumping out of a plane, she wants to know that the person who folded her parachutes has done a job. And the job perfectly, kind of relaxing a little bit and seeing other people can do things doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be the way I would do it. But it doesn't have to be me always to do the task. Yes, yes, the task has to be done. But I don't have to be the one to do it.

Ingrid  31:47  
Yeah. Yeah. Listeners very, very good information here. What can you delegate from, from your list of things that you want to do? Or you feel that you have to do? Is there anything you can delegate to other people? And, indeed, not worry about everything being perfect all the time? So my next question to you is Juliet is is procrastination a universal problem? Or does it affect certain types of people more than others?

Juliet  32:15  
This is a really fascinating question. And I've, I know from my own client work, that there doesn't seem to be any distinction between age, gender, education, background, procrastination, affects all of us. But I have done a little bit of research on this as well, and looked at what social scientists have said, and I found some good news that

Ingrid  32:38  
we like good news,

Juliet  32:39  
it's really good news. So it turns out that there wasn't much of a distinction between men and women, perhaps women procrastinate slightly less than men. Maybe that's because we multitask and get things done. But I don't like to promote gender stereotypes too much. So I'm not too interested in that. What I do find fascinating is that people tend to procrastinate less as they get older. And the river, there isn't a lot to celebrate about getting older. But this is one thing that I think is really good news. And I think it might be to do with the fact that partly as you get older, you become less inhibited and less concerned about what other people think. And I probably wouldn't have written the books that I wrote own in the last year 10 or 20 years ago, I probably would have been too worried about what other people might think. And now I'm not bothered at all, I just want to get my message out there. So I think we've become more confident and more less inhibited. And I think that the clock ticking and that fear of mortality and thinking, if I don't do it now, when am I going to do it? If I don't get around to I don't know decorating my home or writing the novel or creating a home that I actually want to live in. When am I going to I you can make all the excuses in the world about the time is not right or I'm overwhelmed. But I think as you get older, your priorities do become clearer in some ways. And so maybe that's that is something to look forward to to know that procrastination is going to become less of a habit as you get older.

Ingrid  34:11  
Hmm. Very interesting. And that's good news. I agree. And I agree. I think that is true. I think I worry less as well now than when I did when I was younger. So I think that's really good news. So we talked about perfection already. So is there a link between procrastination and perfectionism?

Juliet  34:32  
I think my again my friend Rifka Caroline talks about procrastination and perfectionism as evil twins. They go hand in hand and I love that image. I think I think we do people who are perfectionist who worry about everything being just so might hesitate to do things, you know, I'm not going to write that email because if I don't formulate it exactly right, and if I, if I don't, I might not know in advance what I want my bedroom to look alike. And therefore I'm not going to sort it out because I haven't got this perfect image. I'll spend hours on Pinterest and looking through magazines and dreaming about looking living in a designer home. But because it's not perfect, I'm not going to tackle that pile of books on the floor or that pile of laundry that needs to be put away. So I think worrying about creating a perfect life or a perfect home can hold you back. The reality is life's not perfect. Life is messy, and wonderful. And we just have to engage with it and not worry about it being perfect. I love this quote that I heard from someone else. Why strive for perfect when excellent, we'll do we can we can make life excellent. It doesn't have to be perfect.

Ingrid  35:45  
Yeah. So so true. And I think that's what we see in our clients homes as well that sometimes people keep buying the storage because they think that storage solution is the perfect thing to get them organised. Well, the whole idea is if you have less stuff to deal with, it all falls into place, you don't need to have everything, the perfect containers to do the job. I actually love shoe boxes to get organised that first one buying a good storage hole is the last thing that needs to be done. Not the first thing that needs to be done. Yes, I love that. Yeah, because you first need to determine what it is actually that you want to keep in your life and what makes you happy. And yes, thinking about it has to look exactly as in the magazine or in the in on the TV show or in the in the designer book that I've seen work that way. You know, there probably have been 25 stylist who worked on that perfect photo. Five days you know, it's there's never stopping those cupboards that look beautiful.

Juliet  36:46  
Yes, that's true. And those those people with those beautiful, stylish minimalist homes don't live with children and pets. And don't have visitors over to eat at their perfect dining room tables. Yeah,

Ingrid  37:00  
I think it's all about finding what works for you. And, and not getting too stuck into having everything perfect. I think that is really, really true. So if you want everything to be perfect, please let that go a little bit and maybe excellent is definitely far more than good enough. So is procrastination always a bad thing? Juliet can there be ever be good reasons for procrastinating?

Juliet  37:24  
Yeah, well, you know, me, Ingrid, I'm uh, I'm, uh, one of the most positive people out there. I'm, I'm an idealist. And I don't think procrastination is always a bad thing. I think sometimes we procrastinate about things that don't really need to be done. And by the time we get round to doing them, or rather by the time we get around to thinking about them, the need has gone. How often have you put off making an appointment about a medical issue, and then it's cleared up on its own. And you think why didn't really need to do that. So I'm not saying you should always avoid going to the doctor. But there are times when you kind of instinctively know that you can avoid or delay something that it doesn't have to get done that time. And the other positive thing about procrastination is that when you're not doing the thing that you are procrastinating about, you can be incredibly productive. While you're avoiding your tax return, clean out the fridge and sort out your wardrobe and book your summer holiday and organise your photos. And being a procrastinator doesn't mean that you're lying on the sofa watching TV, people often tell me and I know from my own experience that when I'm avoiding something that I need to do, I go into super active mode and get all sorts of other things done, my inbox can be clear, and my desk can be sorted. I really ought to be sending an email to somebody to, I don't know filling in an application for something that I really don't want to do, or but I will get on with lots of other things. And so that becomes a very productive form of procrastination. So it's not such a bad thing.

Ingrid  39:03  
And also I think sometimes procrastinating a little bit also gives you time to think about definitely the different options that are available. So it it prevents you from rushing into everything. And I'm not talking about procrastinating for days about things but it is alright to procrastinate a little bit so you can think of your options.

Juliet  39:25  
Yes, I think the key thing is to be honest with yourself, and to save yourself if you find that you're avoiding something to say to yourself, Am I procrastination? Sorry, am I procrastinating? Or do I need a little bit more time to make a decision? Yeah, you may not be ready. You may have a wedding dress in your wardrobe that's taking up a lot of space and you're not sure what to do with it or whether you're ready to depart from it. That may not be procrastination. I think it's worth saying to yourself, Am I ready to make this decision? And it may be that you need a little bit longer or you need to have a conversation with somebody Do you need to take a photograph of it and then think about what to do? So I think it's just being honest with yourself and, and acknowledging, but when we are avoiding or when we're stuck, we need to make more decisions, and how are we going to make those decisions? Recognising that I'm not ready because I need to do something else. First, I need to, I need to chat to, to a friend or I need to find out how much something else costs before how much it would cost to replace it. Like before I give away, I don't want to give away my old, I don't know radio in until I find out how much it cost to replace, if I need a new one. So there might be information that you need. Yeah, that's not procrastination, and creative people. We talked about people who've got knitting and arts and crafts and stuff like that, will often use that time to develop ideas and thoughts. And yeah, it takes time to so you might not be ready to, you might want to write that novel, but not feel ready because you're still the ideas are still percolating. But I would say, be honest with yourself about what it is that is holding you back.

Ingrid  41:11  
Yeah. So of course, the million dollar question. Now Julia is Do you ever still procrastinate?

Juliet  41:19  
Well, of course, I think it's a lifelong project. I think we all procrastinate. Anybody who tells you that they don't procrastinate is is deceiving themselves. The key is to make sure that you do the things that matter that figure out what really matters. Whether it's taking care of yourself taking care of your family, taking care of your business, taking care of your home, what are the what are the essential tasks that need to get done? And what are the things that maybe you'd like to do, but I'm not ready to do or don't have the time or resources to do. I have about five books in my head that I haven't yet written. I'm trying to decide where to prioritise my time, but I procrastinate over writing even though I love it, I really enjoy it. But it is a constant challenge. And I learned from that too, I learned from from the experience of dealing with my own procrastination.

Ingrid  42:16  
Yeah. Well, thank you, Juliet, for all this fantastic information. So listeners that's it for this episode. We hope you've all enjoyed listening and are inspired to take action. Thank you so much Juliet for being our guest. I've loved talking to you and finding out more about overcoming your excuses. Stop procrastinating and getting things done. Listeners, I hope you've learned a lot as well today. And Juliet's examples will be helpful for you and you can implement them in your own home. Juliet's books are available on Amazon and we will post a link in the show notes along with her website details. Thank you for taking the time to listen today. If you'd like to get more tips and advice, please follow us on social media. We are an Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and we have a live free support Facebook group community where we chat all things clutter. We'd love to see you there. If you don't want to miss the next weekly episode, subscribe to the declutter hub podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and I will pop it into your notifications each Friday. See you next time.

Outro  43:22  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The Declutter Hub Podcast. Check out declutterhub.com For more inspiration, and don't forget to tune in next week.

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Want to hear more from Juliet? Check out her guest blog here...

How to kick procrastination to the kerb

Juliet Landau-Pope is a professional organiser, certified coach, published author and teaches study skills to teens. She is based in North London and loves nothing more than sharing her insight into procrastination and perfectionism.

Are you avoiding an essential project at home or at work?

A pile of paperwork that needs filing, an application for a fantastic job, or a room that you’d really like to sort out, perhaps?

Or have you embarked on an important task, started with tremendous gusto but then run out of steam?

In either case, there’s no escaping the stress and self-criticism associated with procrastination. The good news is that it’s a universal challenge, affecting people of all ages and at all stages of life.

You’re certainly not alone

As a certified coach and professional organiser, I’ve worked for more than ten years with people like you who struggle to get started or to complete vital tasks. While everyone’s circumstances are unique, I’ve noticed some common themes. Most importantly, it’s clear that procrastination isn’t a personality trait: like clutter, it’s a habit that builds up over time and then starts to get in the way. But like other habits, it can also be shifted.

So here are my five top tips for kicking procrastination to the kerb and being more productive

Set yourself a positive goal

Focus on what you want to achieve and try to visualise all the benefits. Instead of ‘getting rid of stuff’, for instance, picture what will become possible when you declutter a specific space in your home.

Identify the first step you need to take

Identify the very first step that you need to take, however small or insignificant it might seem. You might need to literally walk into a room that you’ve been avoiding or gather together some important papers. Tackling these micro-goals one at a time can be more manageable than thinking about an entire project.

Don’t wait until you have time – make time!

Planning and prioritising are key to overcoming procrastination. And remember that ‘someday’ isn’t a day of the week. Decide what you need to do, then commit to a particular date, write it down in your diary or planner and set a reminder.

Make yourself accountable to someone else

Tell your partner, trusted friend or colleague what you intend to do and when you intend to do it. Creating this accountability structure means you’re more likely to at least make a start. If you’re working with a coach or professional organiser, you’ll find it invaluable to share your goals and discuss your progress with them.

Listen to the excuses that you tell yourself

Finally, listen to the excuses that you tell yourself – and perhaps other people – while you’re procrastinating. Then reflect on how you might reframe your story. For example, if you tell yourself that you work well under pressure, consider how much better you might perform without a looming deadline. And how much do you really LIVE under pressure? Shift the story and you’re on the way to shifting the habit!

If you want to hear more from Juliet, you can listen into her on our podcast, visit her website or follow her on Twitter, Instagram. Juliet has written two fantastic books to help you on your way to being more productive and clearing your clutter. You can find out more about them here.

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