A photograph of guest Clare Denny wearing a hat by a river, smiling into camera

Episode 179 – Decluttering with a disability with guest Clare Denny

Episode 347 – Dealing with grief after losing a pet with guest Kevin Spurgeon

Episode 346 – Pros and cons of decluttering one item a day

One of the things that causes difficulty when it comes to decluttering is physical and mental health. How do you maintain momentum on your decluttering journey when your body or your mind is struggling? In today’s podcast I am honoured to be talking to Clare Denny, one of our Declutter Hub members about how almost three years ago she woke up one day to a very different life to the one she had known.

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Transcript of this podcast episode

[00:00:00] Lesley: One of the things that causes difficulty when it comes to decluttering is physical and mental health. How do you maintain momentum on your decluttering journey when your body or your mind is struggling? In today's podcast, I'm honored to be talking to Claire Denny, one of our declutter members, about how almost three years ago she woke up.

[00:00:18] To a very different life to the one she had known the day 

[00:00:20] Clare: before

[00:00:21] Hello and welcome listeners 

[00:00:22] Lesley: to episode 179. I'm Lesley. Welcome Claire to the podcast. Thank 

[00:00:28] Clare: you very much. This is so 

[00:00:30] Lesley: exciting. We see so many of your posts in the declutter hub and finally you're on the podcast to tell your story, which is an amazing, amazing story. So I really am very honored that you're here today.

[00:00:42] So without further ado, Claire, tell us about what happened to you a few years 

[00:00:47] Clare: ago. Yeah, so I was working as a professional, um, head of English department in a secondary school in the UK. And that's quite a demanding job, working, you know, long hours, lots of time, rewarding myself with holidays and weekends away.

[00:01:02] Um, after one such holiday, over the summer holidays, um, we got home, me and my husband, and I basically woke up and I felt really funny in my leg. Um, I was having problems with my arm, and then by lunchtime, I was in hospital by this point, I completely lost control of both of my left limbs. So, that was quite, quite a shocking event to happen, um, quite traumatic, we didn't know what was wrong, we didn't know, um, if it would get worse, if it would get better.

[00:01:35] And obviously GCSE and A level results were due to come out. So I was thinking about that because, you know, still thinking about my job while I was in hospital. So yeah, massive change to my life. So then all those things that I've been, you know, thinking about tidying up around my house. became even more important in a way because I needed the space, I needed to access things, I needed to bring loads more equipment into my house to help me.

[00:01:57] So yeah, quite a big lifestyle change. Yes. So 

[00:02:01] Lesley: once you've been sort of investigated in hospital, they gave you a diagnosis of multiple sclerosis. That's right. Yeah. And so now we are three years on Claire 

[00:02:10] Clare: from that. Yeah, well, yeah, coming up to that. Yeah, so it's been quite a journey. I'd, um, had some scans and stuff sort of the month beforehand where I'd had some pins and needles, which obviously felt a bit strange because I'd had them for four days.

[00:02:23] So I was like, this isn't right. I should probably, if it's still there on Monday morning, I'll phone 111, which I did. Went into hospital and they'd done some tests. tests and stuff in the meantime. So when I went back the second time, I felt like a fraud going in the first time because I was like, it's just pins and needles.

[00:02:39] Went back to work, but they said I couldn't drive. So I'd already had to be catching lifts off my family and work colleagues in the meantime. So we knew something had gone funny, but then I, I pretty much returned to normal. So I thought it'd be okay. And then it wasn't. And this time they said, you know, you've got multiple sclerosis, the difference in scans from.

[00:02:56] the first time to the second time shows that there's actually quite a big lesion in the part of your brain that controls your left side. So it all tallied up with the pins and needles I had been having. And then that lesion had been growing and getting worse over the next month to the point where I couldn't move at all.

[00:03:16] So quite a big difference. Yeah. So 

[00:03:20] Lesley: you're in your late thirties and you've got no idea that this is coming. So a huge. emotional shock, change 

[00:03:27] Clare: physically as well. Really big change. And actually one of my close friends at work, she said, because I'd had these niggles over the years and her mum had MS, she did say, after the fact, you know, there were a few points looking back where actually I could have thought, Oh, this does sound like MS cause it's similar to what my mum's got.

[00:03:46] But you know, you have a niggle on a thing and you just think, Oh, I'll just work through it. Just carry on. Cause you know, that's the kind of thing you do in teaching. You just kind of push through and think, well, I'll be okay when I get to X point. And so 

[00:03:58] Lesley: those, those changes that you had within your career, that was.

[00:04:01] immediate then, presumably, so you never 

[00:04:03] Clare: went back? Yeah, so I was off sick, I was in hospital for quite a while, because, you know, I couldn't, I was still investigating, then I had to have treatment, then I had to the point where they felt I was safe to come out, and then, of course, coming out. I mean, most of my house is presentable to visitors, but I did have a room where I had a lot of stuff in it that I thought, Oh, what's going to happen with all these things?

[00:04:26] You know, I'm very lucky. We've got a three story, four bedroom house and there's just me and my husband who live here. So I had a room on the top floor with all my books and all my things that I thought one day I'll get around to doing and they're on the top floor and I can't get to the top floor. Um, it wasn't really a priority right there and then, but you know, as time went by and I needed to start thinking about what I was going to do with my time and how I was going to enjoy myself, that became an issue.

[00:04:54] Lesley: So a lot of people Claire won't be familiar with MS and it comes in lots of different guises as well, doesn't it? So some of it's more cognitive, some of it's more physical. So how does MS affect you on a daily basis now? 

[00:05:07] Clare: Yeah, that's right. And the thing about MS, they call it the snowflake disease because everybody is different.

[00:05:13] So some people have cognitive issues and no mobility. Some people have mobility, but no cognitive issues. Some people have both and to varying degrees. So, I have issues with my left foot, so when my left foot drops down, fall and stumble. So a lot of my time mentally is spent trying to prevent me falling, so I have to look a lot at the floor, what I'm doing, I have to think about what's around me, any obstacles that are coming up, and it's kind of like overthinking everything, and that overthinking makes my brain really tired, so as well as my foot not working and it physically getting tired in the muscles and nerves, my brain...

[00:05:53] is doing the same thing and getting really overworked and tired. So that can make me get quite sleepy. Um, and, and just like, I really need to rest quite often. Um, and I also have the same issues with my arm. So mentally I get. overstimulated and tired. And physically, I get overstimulated and tired. And they don't always happen at the same time.

[00:06:17] So my brain can be like, come on Claire, let's go do this. And my body can be like, we need to just sit down and rest and not do anything today. I think one 

[00:06:26] Lesley: of the things that I would say, because you've been in the membership, how long have you been in the membership now? 

[00:06:30] Clare: Over a year. So I But 1314 months, right.

[00:06:35] Lesley: I think one of the things that we think which was why it was so exciting to record this podcast today is that you're one of the most committed determined members that we have, and particularly because of the disability that you have because I think it's something that a lot of people ask us about how do you Keep momentum going when you declutter, when your body and your mind is not playing ball.

[00:06:55] And so you've, you've explained perfectly how you want to do things so much. And you are a very upbeat determined person, but sometimes your mind's like, I don't think so. I'm too tired now. And it comes out of nowhere as well. So you can have all the best of intentions, can't you? And it's just, Not playing ball and what you set out to do that morning just doesn't happen.

[00:07:16] So you talked a little bit about making space and accepting aids around the house. to talk a little bit more about what kind of things you brought into the house to help you move around, get around, find things more easily? That kind of thing. 

[00:07:31] Clare: Yeah, so it's that, you know, it's a statement of fact, I needed space for those things.

[00:07:36] So other things were going to have to go. I can't walk very far, even with a stick, because of getting so mentally exhausted. It's not safe for me to do that. So, you know, initially we've got a mobility scooter. Now they're not. small things to accommodate in your house and my under the stairs, which is the place that it's best for it to go really, used to be my snack cupboard.

[00:07:57] It used to have my wine rack. It's done as a wine rack. There are some things that you can't sacrifice, you know? Um, so a lot of things that were under the stairs, aspirational baking items, for example. Um, it's a no brainer. I need to be able to to get out of the house, you know, I need to get some headspace sometimes and leave.

[00:08:15] So I had to have space for that. In the kitchen, I need a perching stool because I can't stand up in the heat. I get really fatigued by heat as well, which is why showering and being in the kitchen, those things can be really exhausting. So having a perching stool, having things to help me do things in the kitchen, I need space for all of those things now.

[00:08:33] Um, getting around the house, you know, we need a handrail. I mean, the stairs have always been clear in our house, luckily. Um, But we need a handrail, you know, and we also need handrails in other parts of the house. So all those kind of things. And my exercise stepper, which did not get used very regularly in the 10 years previous to this, now gets used every time I have a shower because it's my step into the shower.

[00:08:57] Um, so glad I didn't declutter that, you know, a few years ago, I would have been tempted to declutter that, but 

[00:09:06] Lesley: that's turned You know, we talk a lot about decluttering for a life that you have now and not a life that you wish that you had. And this is a very difficult emotional journey for you. And so to sort of say goodbye effectively to a life that you had before where you were a professional, where you were teaching, where you were going about your daily business as a, in inverted commas, normal person.

[00:09:26] And now all of a sudden, everything's changed. You're not working anymore. You've been medically retired, but you seem to have made that shift emotionally. Much quicker than many people would make Claire, what, have you got anything to say about 

[00:09:39] Clare: that? I mean, I think I'm a very, I'm a very positive and a very patient person.

[00:09:44] So I, you know, I have been an optimist for, you know, most of my life. So I always try and look on the bright side and I think lying in a hospital bed, not being able to move to the left side and not knowing if you ever will, um, gives you an amazing sense of perspective and, you know, a joy about life. So, you know, when I'm feeling down.

[00:10:04] just putting my forefinger and my thumb together and doing a tap like makes me so happy because the first time I could do that again I cried you know because it was like I'm getting something back how amazing is that so it's quite easy for me to feel really happy and appreciate those things because I've lost it so I think some people perhaps haven't haven't had that kind of like oh my god it could all disappear that gives me a lot of focus and perspective.

[00:10:34] But in terms of optimism and focus on what I'm doing, I've always been A bit of a perfectionist in my professional life, and wanting things to be a certain way, and micromanaging a bit too much, and being a bit of a control freak in some areas. Then other areas, like my desk, used to always be really messy.

[00:10:50] So I think I'm now having time to do those things the way that I would maybe like to do them. But I still have days where I can't, you know, I can't mentally, I can't physically, and I just, you know, don't feel like doing it. So then to get myself out of those things, I have things that work for me. So... I will go on to the Declutter Hub forum.

[00:11:10] I will listen to a podcast. If I can't physically be doing something during the day, I'll make notes in my notebook. I'll take photos of areas that I intend to look at that I can't do right now, but I can sit and take a photo and I can look at that photo. And to get my motivation back when I am ready to do it, if I'm, might be physically and mentally able to do it, but not really be wanting to do it, I might look back through the photos of things that I have done before.

[00:11:33] And the progress I have made, I've found looking at images that I've done really useful. I'll also look at what other people are posting on the forum, and see what they've been doing, and kind of read that as a kind of an intro into me getting started. Oh, look at what all these people have done. That's really motivational.

[00:11:51] I can tackle this cupboard now, or I can do this shelf now. And that kind of gets me started. And then I get a bit addicted to the high, a bit like when you get addicted to shopping. And you're like, oh, this is a bargain. I'm so excited. I want for 70 percent off. I'm like, oh, this shelf looks really nice and tidy and clear now.

[00:12:07] How exciting. I'll do another one. So I think that all of those kind of things help really to, to stay and see the progress. Seeing the spaces, that's really, really motivational. 

[00:12:19] Lesley: Honestly, I'm, I'm, I'm stumped for words really sometimes, Claire, because you know, like, a lot of people who are listening today haven't got the benefit of seeing how much progress you've made, but I think that the, the dedication and focus is there.

[00:12:32] So do you feel that Decluttering your house and organising the house. You know, there's a reason for it. You've got a goal, a specific goal in mind, which is it needs to aid my mobility. Cognitively needs to be well labeled so I can find things really easily. Do you think that having that focus and that purpose has really helped?

[00:12:50] It 

[00:12:50] Clare: has really helped and I think that like attention to detail that meticulousness is something that I had in my professional career and I re really hadn't applied it at home in the way that I could have done because I felt like I didn't have time. Looking back now, it wouldn't have taken me that much time to do some of these things.

[00:13:07] I'm not, I'm not spending 12 hours a day every day doing this, but, and that, you know, and I can't. 10 minutes. I could have done that at the time, and I'd have been in a different situation when I now needed the space. And things like needing the space, because I furniture walk, so I can't have things around that might trip over.

[00:13:27] I need to be able to hold on to walls and doors and things like that. So I need the space. And actually, like I had a fall the other week at home. If I'd had that fall. 12 months earlier, I would have been stuck there having to have help from somebody else to get me off the floor and could potentially have had a load of stuff fall on me.

[00:13:45] As it turns out, I fell in a room that, you know, has decluttered probably 70 percent of stuff from it, which meant I could actually had room to roll over. I had room to think, right, this is a good opportunity to practice my physio. We've worked on this, this is what we've been training for, Claire, let's get up off the floor.

[00:14:04] And I was able to do that because I had space to roll over and to, you know, get myself up. I mean, it took me over half an hour, but, but I had the space to do it. I didn't have a load of stuff fall on me. And at the end of that half an hour, you know, I was up and safe. But don't worry, I did have access to my mobile phone and let people know.

[00:14:22] I just wanted to try and do it myself. 

[00:14:25] Lesley: Yeah, was that the one that you posted in the forum? Yeah, I 

[00:14:28] Clare: posted the 

[00:14:31] Lesley: benefit of seeing Claire's tenacity getting up off her broken chair. It's fantastic stuff. So we're going to go for a break now and then when we come back we're going to talk about the specifics of your decluttering journey.

[00:14:44] So welcome everybody. I think during the break, I was really, I was just chatting to Claire about one of the, the biggest things I think for me, that has made a difference to her decluttering journey and general journey with multiple sclerosis is a quite a speedy acceptance of what that looks like, that's allowed them to put things in place and say, you know, I don't really have a choice here.

[00:15:06] I have to do these things for my safety, for my security, for my ongoing well being. And I think that, you know, that's a tough one, but that a lot of people are not quite, you know, quite understandably. It takes a lot of people a lot longer to accept. Would you, would you think that was true, Claire? 

[00:15:21] Clare: Yeah, I think my, my perspective on it is like, we've got one life, in my opinion.

[00:15:28] And I want to live it, so I want to spend that doing things to the best of my ability, you know, having as much fun as possible, seeing my friends as much as possible, and like, other stuff just needs to get done, because that's not my priority. You know, like I said, the things that I wanted to do, you know, were things like hold my husband's hand, you know, and like, I'll tease him, I want you to cop his hand, head in my hands, and give him a kiss, and I couldn't do that, because I couldn't use my left hand, and those little things became so much more important than all the other stuff.

[00:15:58] That I kind of, like, had a switch almost of, like, this stuff just isn't that as important. Not, not in the grand scheme of things, you know? So I had to accept that, you know? I had to accept my career change, the fact that I haven't, we haven't had children yet, and the treatment that I'm on means I shouldn't be getting pregnant, and I'm at that age and my husband's that bit older that...

[00:16:17] Do you know what? Things that I thought were going to happen for us... They're not. And I could sit around and get sad that I've lost, you know, I've lost my profession that I've done for 20 years and absolutely loved. And I could sit and cry about that every day. And I could, but I don't because like, I want to do other stuff with my time.

[00:16:34] Okay. This door has closed, but there are other things I can still do. And, you know, tidying my house is one of them. And it's just a shift in my perspective, you know, I've had to accept that these things are not going to happen for me, so I need to focus on the things that I can do, that I want to do, and spend time doing those things.

[00:16:50] And I have accepted that quite quickly, probably. I'm in a lot of support groups for my MS. You know, so I talk to a lot of people who are in similar situations who I understand, you know, don't have that perspective, but I'm also in groups where a lot of people do have that perspective and are kind of like, you know, why can't other people see that when they say these things like, oh, you should be doing this and you should be doing that, that, you know, we're all different and we react to different ways to things.

[00:17:13] I want to live my best life, whatever that is for me. I don't know how much longer I'll be able to do the things I can do. I could have a relapse at any point. Hopefully I won't with the treatment that I'm on, but it could happen. You know, I've just got to live in the now and enjoy myself. Yes, and 

[00:17:27] Lesley: living in the now and enjoying yourself Claire means that you tackled, as well as the rest of your house, your room of doom as well.

[00:17:34] Oh yes, my room of doom. Still an ongoing project, but you're doing an amazing job. Do you want to talk a little bit about your room of 

[00:17:42] Clare: doom? Yep, so, I can't remember if I mentioned before, because like I say, I have memories. Um, but I have a room in my house that's like a spare room. We've got, we're very lucky, we've got a four bedroom house, and there's just the two of us, so we have our bedroom, we have a guest bedroom, and then we have a bedroom each to do with what we will.

[00:17:58] Um, Warren's is full of boy toys. that I, I've never been in there for the last like seven years. I have no idea what's in there. Probably should go and have a look. And then I've got my room, which has got a lot of aspirational crafting and baking items in it. And it's also got a lot of books that I love, a lot of stationery that I love.

[00:18:17] Oh, you know, I'm a teacher, English teacher. I was an English teacher. So lots of books, lots of, um, Stationary and also lots of sentimental items because I'm a soppy person. Um, so I've got lots of diaries, lots of travel journals because I used to do quite a bit of traveling, lots of photos because I'm sentimental and my memory has never been that good actually, which could very well easily have been the multiple sclerosis all along.

[00:18:41] Who knows? So I've got a lot of photos to trigger those memories, and I've kept hold of a lot of mementos to help me trigger those memories. And basically I had a room of all that stuff, so I had to work through that because, um, I want to be able to sit in that room and look at those books and read those books and look at those photos and be able to get my hands on those things when I want to, to share them and talk about them with friends when they can safely visit.

[00:19:06] So that's what I've been working on, systematically working my way through it, you know, I'm very lucky that I've had help from, you know, my sister, my mum, my husband, because I obviously can't move stuff about, I have to say. Can you get this box into this area so that when I'm going to be doing it, I can go through that box?

[00:19:25] You know, they've moved boxes all around this room for me to help me, but I've gone through it by category. I've, you know, I've followed the roadmap and then I've learned a lot that helped me go through those stages for each category. So, you know, I'll think, right, put all of those things together, whether, you know, pens, how many pens do I need?

[00:19:43] Well, I've still got too many, but, but I'll revisit that. Now I've gone through everything in this room. I've got a real clear, I mean, it sounds terrible. It's not like it's a shop or anything, but I've got like an inventory of everything that I've got. So now I know what space there is because, you know, I've got my furniture that's in here.

[00:20:02] I've got a limited amount of space, I need to prioritise. So I've I've looked at my sentimental, and then I've thought, right, I need room to put these sentimental items, what is going to go? Because these photos are non negotiable. These have to be in here. So then other things become less important. When you've gone through everything, can you put, you know, you do like by like, and you say, so these are some, some fiction books, how many am I realistically going to read and keep?

[00:20:28] Then you look at another thing, and you think, oh, well, actually, compared to that, Those fiction books don't really seem that important, so some more of those could go. And I suppose that's really negotiating with yourself a little bit, isn't it, and compromising. Because I can't keep everything. I was keeping everything for the last sort of six, seven years in a room that I couldn't get into and I couldn't enjoy those things.

[00:20:51] So that's, that's the change really. 

[00:20:54] Lesley: The exciting thing for me, Claire, always, whenever I see your posts on the forum or whenever we get an opportunity, and today's so nice to be able to chat it through, is that You kind of follow our teaching to the letter. And that's always really nice. You were a teacher, you know, if you had a pupil, like a star pupil who did exactly what you said, you'd be like, that's amazing.

[00:21:13] My life is complete. Do you know what I mean? And so you do that. And the interesting thing for me is a lot of it is in the preparation, the planning and the goal setting for you. So you're very focused on, on preparing because you have to be. So in answer to a lot of people's question, when they talk about how, you know, how do you.

[00:21:30] So how do you declutter when you have a disability or a health issue that's going to, you know, cause you problems along the way that might not be straightforward. And the answer is in the preparation because you're going to have to ask for help from somebody. Somebody's going to have to get those boxes down from those hard to reach cupboards to put them into a place.

[00:21:49] And also you're going to have to think about what that place is to be able to declutter and have space to declutter. You're very big on taking notes. So you go through all the lessons in the membership, you take notes, you plan, you think about things in advance. You're very good on detailing storage and thinking about, you know, drawing, you draw diagrams as well about where you want things.

[00:22:10] And that's probably so you can then show Warren where you want these things to go back to. So you've definitely got a fine tuned goal in your mind. You've got a big picture goal, which we love, which is ultimately I want to be, you know, my memory is not what it could be. I want to have sentimental items.

[00:22:26] I want to have photographs. That's my top non negotiable priority. And then I need to work through my stuff, which is all really nice stuff, which I'd really like to keep. But I've got to compromise and decide what's more important to me than the other. And that's what it's all about. You know, one can't keep, well, you can keep everything, but it's compromised, going to compromise you on space or security.

[00:22:45] And all of those things are super important when you've got a disability more so than when you're able bodied. That's the bit about it that I love. Yes. I love seeing. The after the before and after, because you, you share a lot of pictures as well, which is fantastic, but it's the learning and the process that I find really interesting in your journey, because you follow it to the letter that comes from your, probably from your teaching side, from thinking about things systematically, from thinking about things, you know, being quite process led.

[00:23:11] So I absolutely love it from that. perspective, and it's really serving you well. Now you talked about in the beginning about aspirational baking and crafting stuff. So do you want to, cause a lot of people like, what's you're talking about? Aspirational and baking and crafting stuff. Do you want to expand a little bit on that?

[00:23:25] Clare: Yeah. Um, so the aspirational stuff is stuff that I've bought for a lifestyle. I think, Oh, when I have time, I'm going to do this baking, I'm going to make these craft things. I'm going to enjoy doing this. I'm going to want this in my future. And then I think a lot of us would have had a similar thing with COVID and restrictions.

[00:23:42] And you think. Well, I've got the time. Have I done those things? And my retirement has meant I've got the time, and how do I want to spend that? And do I want to spend it doing these things? And actually, for me, there's a different thing in that physically I can't do some of those things. For example, with metal stamping, I like the idea of doing metal stamping.

[00:24:00] I have done some metal stamping in the past. But I physically can't, well, probably shouldn't be allowed to hold something in my left hand and whack it with a hammer, because I don't know what my left hand is going to do and where it's going to stay. So it's just asking for a disaster. Now I could again get upset about that, or I could accept that, these things, and I'm sentimental.

[00:24:19] So I think of these things, and I think, oh, but their life could be so much better with someone else who loves them and would use them. So I need to let them go. A bit like, you know, if you love them, let them go with people. I'm a bit like that with my stuff. I'm like, oh, I'd really like it to go somewhere else so it can live the life it was supposed to live.

[00:24:34] And I like the idea of baking, I haven't done that much of it though, and I physically can't now. So I'll just ask my sister to bake me stuff, which she does, and I won't do as much of that, so I don't need as much stuff. The thing is, am I realistically going to do those things? So I like the idea of it, but I, you know, can I do it?

[00:24:53] Am I going to do it? I can't do those things anymore, so rather than... worry and get upset about it, ask somebody else to do that stuff and let other things go. So that's, that's what I've been doing is re evaluating my life, what I really want from it and realistically how I'm going to spend my time. 

[00:25:09] Lesley: And I think the interesting thing Clare is that on the, on the face of it, it seems like a very pragmatic response.

[00:25:15] But the emotions that sit behind that are quite deep. So you've got to let go of those aspirational things that you thought you would be able to do that now you can't. And so you have to make that mental leap. So whilst it's very pragmatic to say, I can't bake in the same way that I, you know, that I used to.

[00:25:31] It's difficult. These things are difficult and they're difficult emotional decisions that you have 

[00:25:36] Clare: made. And they haven't, they haven't happened overnight. You know, I didn't just, you know, I can't use my left side of the body. Therefore I thought, Oh, that's all these things must go. Yeah. You know, that was 2019.

[00:25:49] I've done a lot of work mentally in the meantime, you know, accepting takes time, just as the physical, the physio takes time. Accepting an early retirement when I mean, I loved my job, um, and so having those things, and again, you talk about aspiration, you know, when I was 21, I was expecting to be teaching till I was in my mid 60s, and and I'm not, and I love it.

[00:26:17] So, That's another thing to accept, but, like you say, it's not as pragmatic as it may be sound, but I've had to work through and deal with that, because what am I going to do if I don't accept that? And that's a dangerous rabbit hole, I think, for people to go down, you know, because living in a world of what ifs mean, you know, you're not actually getting those things done that you could be doing.

[00:26:36] And I don't know what's more sad, you know, living in a world of what ifs. Or, you know, this missed opportunities, you know, that you could've been doing these other things all this time. And that, and that's sad too, isn't it? Sitting and thinking about things you could've been doing, but actually you couldn't do these other things right now and you're not, so, what a shame, you know?

[00:26:55] I mean I can't run a marathon, realistically, I was never going to run a marathon before, but But there are things that I was doing before that I can't do now, but you know what, there's still stuff that I can do that other people can't, so I'm really thankful about that. You know, I can still sit here and read my books.

[00:27:10] A lot of people can't read, you know. Yeah. I'm really 

[00:27:14] Lesley: lucky. Yeah, time allows you opportunity that perhaps other people have not got. Now I wanted to talk a little bit about your... photograph projects as well, Claire, because this is something that is, you're doing right now. So your Room of Doom project is, it's not really Room of Doom anymore, is it?

[00:27:30] I think it's moved into a kind of... 

[00:27:33] Clare: It's actually looking quite nice now, I'm sitting here looking around, I'm like... Yeah, I might have a little area for this or if not, yeah, it's looking nice now. 

[00:27:39] Lesley: So there's still some work to do on it to get it to where you want to be. But for the most part, you know, you're definitely getting there.

[00:27:44] And you've got a lot of overflow stuff in there, haven't you? That you're working through. So things that you found that you overbought in the past. You're like, I don't want to get rid of those because I know that I'm going to use them. And then as soon as they're gone, then it will create shelf space.

[00:27:56] And you've learned and your mindset has changed. You're not going to overbuy those things again. Now your photo project, you have loved and done it in a, in a really fantastic way. And you love a label, don't you, Claire? Love 

[00:28:08] Clare: label. Oh, I love the label. You know, I have had that label maker sitting in the cupboard or a drawer somewhere for ages and not used it.

[00:28:16] And then doing this, I found it because, you know, it was hidden in my room of do. But I found it. So now I can use that label maker to label. And like you say, cognitively, I mean, it looks nice. And I get that some people are like, why would you label open containers? And I, I get that. But when there's a draw and I'm not sure what's in the draw, it's really helpful to me to have a label.

[00:28:36] So I've been really enjoying using my label maker to make things easier for me. 

[00:28:42] Lesley: Labeling is super important. Anybody that's, you know, got any kind of MS, any kind of cognitive. Neurodivergent, that, that kind of thing. Labeling is so, so important, Claire, when it comes to anybody who's got any kind of cognitive difficulty.

[00:28:56] And I think, you know, you can also go so far as to have open, a lot of people take cupboards off doors and things like that as well, cupboards, uh, no doors of cupboards, I mean, not cupboards off doors, because that's useful as well. So labeling. It can't be underestimated. So it looks lovely but actually it's got a very practical purpose.

[00:29:13] And you, you do love a label, and you've got fantastically labeled photo boxes in these beautiful sort of plastic storage boxes that look incredible and are fantastically categorized. And you're really enjoying the project, 

[00:29:25] Clare: aren't you? Yeah, I'm really enjoying it and I wasn't sure to be honest because we had you know, we had 15 photo albums, you know, we had photo albums, we could look at them.

[00:29:33] I look at them more than my husband. But when I saw these photo boxes, I thought, oh, what a great idea, because I've got a lot of loose photos as well. I have like a shoe box full of photos and several packets of photos. You know, things will get round to one day. Well, this has been the day. So I thought, oh, those look really useful.

[00:29:47] So I got some and thought, well, let's see if I'd use them. And I. I went through all my photos, you know, very methodically, like you say, I've made lots of notes in advance, thinking how would I do this? I went through all my photo albums and looked at what size of these photo albums, what categories are included in these photo albums, compared across all my photo albums, you know, what kind of categories are common themes?

[00:30:08] Why have I got photos in different sizes? I'm such an idiot, why did I do that? And then I went through and categorized everything, and then... I thought, well, I'll start using these photo boxes and then see. And I thought, well, I actually really prefer to get the photos out and shuffle through them. I much prefer that than this.

[00:30:24] And I was thinking, actually, this is a bit of me. So then I thought, do we need for any photo albums? So I got rid of all of the photo albums and I put them into these plastic containers. So sort of one box is like a mini suitcase size. It's clear. And then within that you have these 16 or eight, depending on what size you want, smaller.

[00:30:44] bits of plastic and I've labeled all of them. So on the top it says sort of holiday and where it was and on the left hand side it says the year. So really easy to see from either the top or the side what category it is that I'm talking about. So then if a friend comes around and we're like reminiscing I could be like, oh, I've got these photos from when we were in Tunisia, you know, let's go through these and I'm looking forward to being able to do that with my friends.

[00:31:06] Or, for example, family photos. We've got different sides to our family, like everybody, and some of them are really interested in ancestry. Well, I've got some ancestry stuff. I've got photos from my grandparents and my great grandparents. These are all categorised. Let's look at these. You know, really easy to just grab a pack out and go through them.

[00:31:23] Lesley: You're definitely going to be the person that everyone comes to when you need a slideshow or a 50th birthday photo book. Everyone's going to be like, Claire's going to do that. I've 

[00:31:35] Clare: actually had people in the family and friends. who are going like, Oh my God, because I'm so excited about it. And I think that's the other, it's again, very motivational when you do a project like this to do other things, because it's just so exciting.

[00:31:46] You want to talk about it. You want to share it. And then I've got other people, like some of my friends who have got, Oh, I've got loads of photos from that holiday too. Oh, what are you doing? And one of my friends was like, are you scanning these in? And I'm like, Oh, I hadn't planned to, but now you've said that I could.

[00:31:59] And I know one of my friends, you know, she's busy working mum of three and she was saying, Oh, I really love to do that, but I haven't got the time to do it. I'm like, mate, bring them around. You know, I've got the time. We'll be able to go through that together when you come over sometime. Um, so I'm thinking not now, cause I need to finish this project first, the rest of the room will do, but you know, that's a project in the future where I can be talking to my friends about these things and showing them how I did it.

[00:32:25] And They can, they can then go away and do it. That's the teacher in me, isn't it? I want to model, look, this is how I've done it. Now you can go away and do it yourself. These are the things that I learned along my way. 

[00:32:35] Lesley: And make everyone very, I mean, I've actually, I'm a trained photo organiser and I'm in awe of your, I don't mind like that, because I haven't done anything with photographs since I was a trained photo organiser, so there's a lot of work to do.

[00:32:48] But no, it looks absolutely amazing and you can see all the hard work that's gone into it and it's going to give you a lot of joy. And that's what this is all about, you know, sentimental and photo projects are so lovely, but they need time and energy, and you need to think about those categories. What your categories are, Claire, are going to be very different to the next person, you know, that may not make sense.

[00:33:08] You really need to think about that logic as well. Yeah. So what's next, Claire? So you, I know you're thinking, I think I saw this morning in the forum that you're moving on to digital. Am I 

[00:33:17] Clare: right? I am moving. Yeah. Because I've set up my computer so I can do this podcast, actually. It's been sitting in the corner of the room and I was like, Oh, I need to.

[00:33:25] set it up so I can do the podcast. And while I've been doing that, I'm like, oh, I'll do a bit of a declutter because I haven't done all of my emails yet. So I started to do a few of those yesterday while I was having a look on things. But yeah, digital photos is obviously on my horizon. Um, but I feel, I feel like I've already got some categorization in mind.

[00:33:43] So I'm hoping. Those categories. I mean, and it's mainly chronological, but for me, when I'm not sure what year it is, you know, I know where I lived, for example, at that time. So that's helped me to subcategorise, or depending on who I'm on the holiday with, that kind of helps me with the year. Because we've got groups of friends, and there's holidays where we went as a four, there's holidays where we went as a three, and then there's holidays where we went as a two.

[00:34:06] As we got older, you know, and some of us got partnered off and had kids, and some of us were still gallivanting around Europe.

[00:34:16] So which is why my friends will really enjoy it because they'll know which ones they're in. 

[00:34:20] Lesley: Definitely, fantastic. Um, so just jumping back to your time in the declutter hub, you've obviously learnt a lot. So which, which part of it, this is probably quite a hard question. Is the most useful to you? Is it the emotional side of things and working through that?

[00:34:37] Is it the decluttering questions, the organisation, the categorization or the other stuff that, you know, is it the forum? Is it, what is it that you find most useful and most motivating? Oh, 

[00:34:49] Clare: most useful and most motivating is two different questions, I think. Yes, it is, you are right. So, I'm going to take it in two different ways.

[00:34:55] I would say, first of all, useful, the amount of resources and videos and the courses available. Like, I have, like you say, some of this comes from me being a teacher, because as teachers, you're like lifelong learners as well. So, I was completely, like, absorbed, and again, using my time, I would like be watching the videos, looking at all that preparation stuff.

[00:35:17] using my notebook to make notes for myself. So that when I was going on to do those things, I could apply those things. So that stuff was really useful. And then, I mean, I've been in there, like I say, for about 14 months now. And initially I was doing that. I was going through the roadmap, doing little bits, looking, doing stuff around my home and then doing the hellos and answering the questions and doing the challenges within the membership.

[00:35:43] And then actually now, the forum is the most, it is actually a place I wish I'd started in sooner, because I find that so motivational, and I just kick myself a little bit for that bit when I was doing it on my own, that I wasn't getting more involved in the forum, because you get so much benefit from seeing what other people, you know, searching the forum for doom, which I have done, I know not everyone calls it that, you know, or, um, Or craft, or books, or whatever.

[00:36:11] And you see what other people have done in the membership before you, and you see their progress, and you see their before, during, and after. And that gives you ideas as well. I mean, I've already done the learning from what you and Ingrid have shared, and then I'm doing more learning from the other members, and then that makes me want to share.

[00:36:28] Because, and then you start sharing and realise actually the sharing motivates you. So it's, you know, I'm selfish, you know, I post loads and I don't do that for other people. I do that to be selfish, because it helps me. It helps me to see my own progress. It helps me, you know, when I'm having those lulls and I'm like, oh, this doesn't seem to be improving.

[00:36:47] And then I look back and I'm like, Oh, Claire, you've done loads. Like, give yourself a break. Yeah. There's 

[00:36:53] Lesley: a, there's a thread in the forum called Claire's room. That's been probably going for about nine months. 

[00:36:59] Clare: I checked this morning. It's been going. 

[00:37:02] Lesley: You know, it's six pages. Long of Claire's posts and people's comments and you know, it, it, and it is so inspirational to be able to chronicle it in that way.

[00:37:12] And so I think you're right. I don't think you're absolutely not being selfish by posting because that's what it's all about. But I think there's something in that where people who have struggled with clutter all their lives. Many people are quite secretive about that because they don't want to be share, they don't want to share because they don't want to be judged.

[00:37:29] And so therefore it takes a while for you to come out of your shell and to feel confident enough to share with other people. And so I think that's why people in the beginning are very reticent to, to share because it's hard. And you know, we see people, we've got a lot of new members, the membership at the moment.

[00:37:44] It's a big mental leap, isn't it? I'm not ready. I'll post something, but I'm not ready to post photos. And we completely get that. And the forum is there for anybody to do, do with it what they want. You know, you can just be a stalker and watch what's going on. You don't need to post. You can still learn from other people.

[00:38:01] So it's fantastic. So it's interesting to see that journey in the way that you did it in the beginning, Claire, and now that you've been with us, you know, over a year, how that looks, you know, you still got work to do. You're doing a fantastic job. Now we'll make a professional organiser out of you. Yeah, Claire.

[00:38:15] And we're a photo organiser, you know, we do that in your own pace. 

[00:38:20] Clare: Um, I mean, most of my photos are selfies. if I'm honest. My friends and family joke that most of the photos, it's hard to chronicalize because it's a photo of my face and then something that should be a landmark in the background, but you can't quite tell.

[00:38:33] Is that the Arc de Triomphe? Is it, you know, York Minster? 

[00:38:38] Lesley: Who knows? Fantastic. Anyway, Claire, amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your you on your

[00:38:48] Self in your family and sharing it with other people who might be feeling a little bit low and thinking I've got a disability. This is really hard for me. And you can show that there is another way to enjoy life and to embrace life with less clutter to make things ultimately safer and more straightforward for you to, to, to carry on in your positive way.

[00:39:09] So I've absolutely loved. you sharing your journey, talking to you today. I've been lost for words many times. The edits are big in this one, aren't they? Yeah, I'm sure 

[00:39:19] Clare: they will be. I mean, if you told me 14 months ago that my room would be as clear as it is now, like I wouldn't have believed you. I would think, no, there's no way, you know, I mean, I've got a room I can't work out the measurements, but you know, it's the size of a bedroom and it was up to probably my waist or my shoulders in places.

[00:39:39] If you told me that it was as it is now, in like, I could be there in 14 months, I would really not have believed you. And it's just been that slow chipping. I've noticed when if you search chipping away in the forum, you're going to have loads of my posts because it's like constantly just chipping away, chipping away, chipping away.

[00:39:56] And that's all it's been. You know, little and often lots of rests, lots of time sitting in the room and looking, thinking what am I going to do next? And three notebooks full of notes and diagrams, and you know, that's how I've got here. I 

[00:40:10] Lesley: know, absolutely. And it is all, all about breaking it down into manageable chunks, isn't it, Claire?

[00:40:15] That's the key. 

[00:40:17] Clare: It's there's not some big secret. We're not telling you, you know, that's that's that's all you've got to do. Yeah, exactly 

[00:40:22] Lesley: To be seen here So next week if you want to tune in we are talking about 10 things to declutter from your wardrobe I'm, pretty sure you could do more than 10 things, but we are going to focus on 10 things that are easy peasy wins When it comes to declutter in your wardrobe.

[00:40:37] So thank you all so much for listening. Thank you, Claire, for being an amazing guest and we will see you all next week.

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DECLUTTERING WITH MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS – A GUEST BLOG BY CLARE DENNY

Clare Denny is a Declutter Hub member who has been living with Multiple Sclerosis for a few years. We asked Clare to explain some of the ways she has managed to move forward in her decluttering journey with positivity.

Since my Multiple Sclerosis diagnosis, I have had to make compromises in my home. The most important of these changes have been regarding acceptance, my access and my safety. I have had to introduce mobility aids or aids to make tasks easier and they all need space. I've also had to reduce clutter so I can move around my home as easily as possible.

Moving forward in my new life, and grieving and accepting that some items are part of my old life, well, has been really important for my mental health. Acceptance has also helped massively with identifying items that I can lump together in groups and say all these items can go. This has saved a lot of small decisions.

Acceptance in the Kitchen

I can no longer make myself a meal from scratch so a lot of my baking items have gone but I can buy homemade items or ask friends/family to make them for me.

There are certain appliances that I can no longer use or items I can no longer lift so out go the things that make me sad or frustrated.

But that makes space for items that can help me massively, and priority space is given to items that really help me, like the air fryer and soup maker.

Accepting my new wardrobe

I had to learn acceptance. Acceptance has meant being honest about which clothes I can now easily dress myself in and feel comfortable in, for example, buttons to me are now a no-go, as are heels and shoulder bags. Rather than have these items in my wardrobe and get sad, I decided to let them go and get used by someone else.

I have also reflected on which type of events I am likely to attend and how many. This has allowed me to rethink how many evening dresses or how much work wear I really need. I also have to think about how they fit in with me using my wheelchair or my stick, for example, I've looked at skirt and dress length.

As a pleasant by-product, all items having a home in my wardrobe means washing gets put away more quickly after washing.

The benefits of reducing the amount of stuff

Reducing the number of items I have has reduced the number of obstacles in my home. This has helped with my mobility meaning I trip over fewer things but it requires less concentration so I get less tired mentally.

Less stuff around has also meant that I am not having as much sensory overload so my head is calmer.

Items have been easier to find, and easier to access, since I've started decluttering. This has meant I've avoided getting frustrated at myself, I've saved time, I've avoided buying duplicate items and actually that means I've saved money.

Having a very clear inventory of items in my home means I've spent very little on household and self care products over the last year - and I still have plenty left! But The Declutter Hub has also made me change my mindset and what I will do in the future. I know I don't want that many items in my home when I could go to the local shops and buy those products very easily.

Putting myself first to avoid fatigue

I can preserve my physical energy by thoroughly planning ahead before I physically start or mentally make decisions. I make notes in a notebook, I draw diagrams of my intentions for the room/cupboard layout. This means I do a lot of thinking as part of my preparation.

I also take photos and that helps both with my planning and my motivation. I can reflect on my decisions or make decisions before going into a room by looking at these photos and reviewing my notes. When I'm flagging, I revisit earlier photos so I can see the progress more clearly.

Ask friends, family or carers to move boxes or items you intend to work through near a chair you can comfortably sit in to work through them.

Research your area to see if there are charities or groups that will collect from your home. Use local Facebook groups for collection only items.

For me, one of the best decisions I made was moving some coffee making facilities into the rooms where I'm doing bigger projects (as well as keeping bottle of water and a banana handy).

Organising helps my memory

Labelling items so I can easily identify where things are has really helped me manage in my home because I have my memory issues. When things are labelled, they are easy to find and I don't have to admonish myself for not being able to remember where I've put things.

I have taken photos of areas in my home, for example, cupboards with doors open, and kept a small album on my phone so I can easily locate items.

Letting items go

Getting things out of the house via charity shops, local Facebook groups, friends and family or neighbours has been key.

Mostly, I chose to donate items as it was the easiest way to get the amounts I needed to out. There were three areas where I chose to sell instead: good quality jewellery, designer shoes/bags and a large job lot of jewellery making items.

Either way, getting items out of my home makes me feel like a weight has been lifted. I've felt free. I have also enjoyed the feeling that my items are having a new life and helping someone else.

What if?

I haven't missed anything that I've decluttered. I firmly believe that this is because I've worked through the stages of The Declutter Hub roadmap. I've taken notes, learnt about how to do things, applied them, developed confidence in my decision making and processed my emotions so I know I making the right choices for present and future me.

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Recent Posts

Episode 346 – Pros and cons of decluttering one item a day

Episode 345 – 10 things to declutter from your junk drawer

Episode 343 – Dealing with the passage of time when decluttering

Episode 341 – 10 things to consider when selling your house

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Episode 179 – Decluttering with a disability with guest Clare Denny

DECLUTTERING WITH MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS – A GUEST BLOG BY CLARE DENNY

Acceptance in the Kitchen

Accepting my new wardrobe

The benefits of reducing the amount of stuff

Putting myself first to avoid fatigue

Organising helps my memory

Letting items go

What if?

Episode 346 – Pros and cons of decluttering one item a day

Episode 345 – 10 things to declutter from your junk drawer

Episode 343 – Dealing with the passage of time when decluttering

Episode 341 – 10 things to consider when selling your house

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