Episode 414 – Car Packing Hacks for Stress Free Travel

Ingrid: Packing the car can feel like a game of Tetris, especially when you're juggling kids holiday planning the weekly shop or slapping your kids' stuff to uni. In this episode, we're sharing some practical, realistic. Car packing hacks to help you maximize space, reduce stress, and actually enjoy the journey. always, we're aiming for calm, organized, and doable. you're heading off on a big adventure or just trying to make everyday life run more smoothly, these tips will help you feel more in control before you've even turned the key.

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid.

Lesley: And I am Lesley. Now, if you are here for the very first time today, or you've been listening in for ages, we want to say a huge thank you we have a little favour to ask.

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Lesley, I'm already, I'm already laughing. We, I know we haven't even started, started the podcast yet, but I'm already laughing because I had such a flashback to my poor dad. When he was still alive, when he would come into, we would go on holiday every year. We go camping when we were young, and then I remem or we would go like to Spain or something to an apartment, and the poor man would come down on the day of the holiday.

My mom would've of course, packed all of the things and he would just come in the hallway and go like this incredulous look on his face like. Surely we're not gonna take all of this stuff for holiday. And he would've gone, how am I going to get it in the car? And then he would disappear. We heard a lot of mumbling and kind of at one point he went right, and then all of the suitcases for somehow had fitted in the boots we would be off.

But every year it was like I, I would stay out of his way.

Lesley: It's interesting actually that you say that you know about, 'cause that's the difference between you and I, I think Ingrid or, or you know, kind of mainland Europe compared to uk. 'cause you can go to like loads of cool places. In the car and we can as well as long as we go on a ferry, but for the most part, a lot of, a lot of Brits.

Then typically, uh, if you're going a little bit further afield, go by plane and not by car. That's not exclusive. I'm not trying to say that, but. You've got more options, right? If you're in mainland D because you know, it is probably cheaper for us mostly to go on the plane than it is to go in the car. So maybe you've got more experience of packing a car up than I have Ingrid.

and also of course, you are back and forth all the time. You do a lot of camping trips now, still even, and um, so yeah, I'm gonna defer to you from most of this, um, podcast, Ingrid, because you are, should be the master. Packer, so you are gonna come up with loads of hacks, but I might just chip in. You never know.

Ingrid: Well, thankfully I've got a really sensible husband who does most of the, actually the putting this stuff in the car. But yes, you are right. We go back and forward all the time to the Netherlands, and as most of you know, I am not a light packer. I don't travel light, so I'm like listening to this list thinking, yeah, maybe I should pay a bit more attention to what I do myself, but a lot of things I do do.

So that's good news. I think I just overpack a little bit, but we'll talk

Lesley: I can't even, I can't even imagine what it must be like. I've only, I've only actually experienced you on a kind of couple of days away in a hotel. I can't even imagine. What that's gonna be when you've gotta do like color gas stoves and kettles and all that kind of jazz for camping, it must be a nightmare.

But anyway, that's youngs, that's a young problem and not a a Lesley problem. So that's a good thing, right? So let's get stuck in it. Is that time of year lots of us are starting to, to go off on holiday and probably dreading what's coming, aren't we? we talked a little bit in the intro as well about taking kids stuff off to uni.

Now that is a packing trial and I've done that many, many times. Back and forth to uni where the, the car is just packed to the absolute rafters. And when you are driving around, you can tell when kids are going to uni. Like you can tell the cars when it's like a uni thing 'cause there's like no space at all.

And you have that coming as well. So I'm sure that we will cover, cover that as well, Ingrid. So, but let's get started. And before you even started to pack your car for whatever you are undertaking, whether that's a holiday, whether that's a big trip, a weekend away, taking your kids to uni, whatever that is.

What do we do before we even get started? That's gonna help us on our way?

Ingrid: Yeah, of course. You know, we need to make sure that this car is like cleared out, you know, all the debris from the. Weeks and months before, you know, the, the, the, the, probably the banana skins, the food wrappers, the, you know, the little side, little pockets in the car doors, the boots, you know, things end up in there because we leave busy lives.

We, we might not have made it to the donation station at some point. So I, I would say a couple of days or maybe even a week before you actually have a trip. Spend a bit of time just to clear down your car a little bit because lots of stuff just. Ends up in there and if you've got, I mean, we've got like a crate in the car in the back of, in the boot of the car with like an emergency triangle and some like, gloves that we can put on in case we need to change a tire and like an first aid kit and kind of those kind of things.

But sometimes accidentally things get added to this little crate because, you know, you just don't tidy away properly. So we always kind of have to look through that. you know, looking at the dates of your, first aid kit, if you have one in the car, might not be a bad shout either when you're doing a bit of a clear out and go, Hmm, have we got everything?

I mean, we drive a lot in France. We need to have high vis jackets with us because in case you, get

down, you have to wear a high fish, jackets on the side of the road. So, you know. A while back I was like, Hmm, I wonder if we still have like the right sizing and these tiny kid high fish jackets came out of the mud in my car.

I was like, oh, okay. So a bit of a clear out is never a bad shout, I think.

Lesley: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We've really got to clear the decks, haven't we? Before we even get started putting more stuff back in. And I think at the beginning of our journey of, well before our journey of journeys, we need to start. Kind of Organising the stuff. You know, we're talking about a lot of stuff that it's just a few suitcases, it's quite straightforward.

But if we've got stuff that, for a camping trip or all that kind of stuff that you're talking about, he BZ jackets. If we are taking a AT student, there's gonna be lots of different types of stuff. And so it makes sense to kind of. Think about the other end as well, doesn't it, Ingrid? And go, right, let's start gathering like with like, so it's not just a complete kind of, let's throw everything in and hope for the best.

We need to at least start with that in mind. I'm not gonna say ends with that in mind. 'cause in the end we kind of start cramming things in that won't fit. you know, so maybe we can't have order all the way through, but let's start with the basics and gather, like with like now we do that when we're decluttering and Organising as well.

So it should be a concept that you're fairly familiar with. We need to gather all the food together. We need to put all the clothes together. We need to put all the activity books together. So we really want to avoid that kind of random stuffing in. Now, I'm not saying that that is entirely possible all the time, but let's start with that.

Good plan. Yeah.

Ingrid: Yeah, I think it's really important because I think it will help you also just to kind of go, have we got everything right? So, presuming if you're, for example, a family of three or four, do I actually see four suitcases here? You know, hasn't accidentally someone left their suitcase in their bedroom thinking somebody else would bring it downstairs.

Thankfully, this has not happened to me. Yet. but then you gotta go, can, you can kind of go, oh, we got everything. Like we, for example, here at my house, I always have a bag of shoes. Like, I, I don't really, you know, you kind of, I wanna use my suitcase when you're in the car for putting all the clothes in and all that.

So we have kind of a separate bag for shoes. So actually I just have like one of those, bags for life that's sturdy. You know, it doesn't, it's not like a flimsy bag, it's like a good solid bag and all of the shoes go in there. So. We know there's a bag of shoes. We know there's a bag with board games and kind of together. when I go home for Easter, there's always a bag with Easter eggs, you know, I mean, it's just that this things you see with Christmas. There's a bag with presents, so then you kind of start to kind of go, have we got everything? When you kind of gather, like with like, and it starts to make more sense when you start to pack.

Lesley: Why does it not surprise me that you can't fit your shoes in your normal suitcase? I'm like, people don't have like extra bags for shoes. They put their shoes in their suitcase with the other stuff, but you haven't got space for that, and so you have to have an extra bag for shoes. Like what do you do when you go on a plane?

Ingrid: Yeah. That's very problematic, Lesley.

Lesley: Honestly.

Ingrid: problematic.

Lesley: Nightmare. Nightmare. This is definitely a do as I say, not as I do podcast. If you're listening to Ingrid, so talking about, putting bags and suitcases and all of these good stuff, I think, you know, it's really important to think about the rigidity. The more rigid your bag is, the less flexible it's gonna be.

And so I think, you know, particularly if you go away, even if you're flying and you've got a higher car at the other end and things like that. Really think about how that's gonna work at the other end. 'cause if you've got four or five rigid suitcases, you've not got much flexibility in there and kind of soft hold.

All type bags are just that little bit more flexible. I mean, my suitcases are flexible as well, and that means that. They can expand and you know, all that kind of, all that kind of good stuff. So I think, you know, it's really important to think about whether a rigid suitcase, which has got other benefits, of course, is gonna be the right thing for you if you are gonna have to do some car travel as part of your trip.

So I think about that. It might be they've got a couple of rigid suitcases, a couple of holders, just to give you that flexibility. You can kind of stuff 'em in a little bit more, but you just can't do that with a rigid suitcase or a rigid bag.

Ingrid: I just had a massive flashback, Lesley, again, Jan and I, did a trip through, Florida. Gosh, back at, I must have, it must have been in like the nineties or something. And we hired a car, so we flew of course, obviously, and then we hired a car. But of course we were, we didn't, we were just working, so we didn't have like a massive budget.

So of course we hired like. Tiniest car, but we had these two gigantic hard case suitcases, so we had to, in the end, kind of put one on the backseat because they didn't fit both in the car. It just came back to me trying to squeeze these two hard case, suitcases in

Lesley: Bearing in mind, Ingrid that back in the nineties they didn't have small cars in Florida. They were all big cars. So just keeps on going, doesn't it? Keeps on going anyway, so, Yeah, definitely soft bags are sometimes more useful. So if, if it is time for you to swap over your suitcases, maybe have a think about that and think about whether flexible bag is going to be more useful for you.

And of course, when we are packing our boot trunk, if you own other parts of the world, we need to think about how that's gonna land. And so we need to sort of start putting. The heavy stuff at the bottom and then the lighter stuff at the top. That makes more sense. We don't wanna squash everything, do we?

You don't wanna put your extra bag of all of the things that you've got extra bags on underneath your heavy suitcases. Do you?

Ingrid: Yeah, definitely. No, the suitcases go in first. The whole dolls go in first, and then all the other stuff gets pile on top of that. And of course, always the last thing to go on are, of course, the, like, the jackets, that like, that

Lesley: They're not in your suitcase either. So they're not in your suitcase either? No. So you've got a separate bag for shoes, and now we've got a separate, separate bag for coats and jackets. Have you got underwear in a separate little hold All as well, just in case or. Yeah.

Ingrid: No, because they hang downstairs on the, on the coat rack. So that's the end of the last thing, and I always gotta see ya like taking the coats off. And of course you can never just bring one coat when you go camping because it can be either in France, it can be sweltering hot, and then it, you know, where you can have rain or. So, of course different coats and like this pile of jacket like stride to squeeze it into every little nook and cranny, hoping for the best that he can see a see still through the rear of the window of the car.

Lesley: I think that's also a consideration, Ingrid, is, you know, and I'm, you know, hoping that when you go on holiday that it's not quite so crazy, but I imagine that it probably is, if you've gotta, again, in suitcases and camping gear. I know you've got a trailer tent, right? You've got a trailer tent. It's yours.

That's, yeah. So yours a little bit easier to pack. It's not too much in the car and stuff, but, I think, you know, you've gotta think about are you comfortable driving where visibility is impacted by piling stuff up high? Because some people get nervous with that. Sometimes you don't have a choice. I mean, the whole uni getting kids to uni thing.

You've really got no choice. You know, you have to pile the stuff high, like, you know, so Anne's going off to uni very, very soon, which, Ingrid is very sad about. Of course. And are you gonna be involved in that car journey over to, Holland? 'cause Anne's going to, uni and Holland, right?

Ingrid: Yes, she is. So just like Max, her dad will drive her down and I'm going to join them later. so he's gonna help her set up and then I'm gonna join her the weekend, the weekend later to kind of see if I can help with anything else. And then to kind of look at her room and all of those things. So we've seen it all, of course, online. but no, she's, think she's actually. Probably the lightest packer of all of us. I mean, oh no, Jan's very good as well. He's like, too short. Three T-shirts, I'm good. And I'm like, but I wanna wear that and I wanna wear that. But Anne's, Anne's really good at packing as well, so we've been kind of thinking and she's, she's got a room with quite a lot of things in it, so that helps as well.

So. But the car will be full, Lesley, of course, because as soon as you need to bring, you know, computers and maybe some small furniture, duvets that, that car is gonna be absolutely, chalk a block. I think, it was so funny because Max had, a room for like one year in his, in his student town, and then he had to move and he actually, he moved nearly everything on a bike. then realized, oh, when I actually wanna like, move like a cupboard that somebody gave him. So we actually then managed to, convince my brother-in-law to drive down, to delve and help him move some furniture because I thought, he thought, oh, that's not gonna be really helpful on a bike.

But bless him, he, he moved most of it on his bike. So it is possible, but, but not

Lesley: The only, the

Ingrid: is going to.

Lesley: only the Dutch could start, trying to move suitcases and hold doors on bikes. They do anything. I'm surprised that he didn't take his little cupboard. Maybe he's not that proficient. You see? You know, max has not done a big shift in Holland. Jack, give him another 10 years and he'll be moving that bedside cabinet on the back of his bike because that's what they all do.

Some of the sites that you see in Holland on the bike paths is, is something else, isn't it? Anyway, let's pop. I know. Exactly. Let's pop to a breaking with, let's come back with some more handy tips about how to pack your car up before you do and embark on a big journey.

Ingrid: Hi everyone. Welcome back. I'm sorry. I feel like I've just been laughing in this podcast. I'm like having so many flashbacks. On the other hand, I'm like nearly crying with the thought of Anne leaving in about six weeks. So it's turning out to be quite an emotional, podcast here. Oh my goodness. The countdown is on, let me tell you. boy. Oh boy. But yeah, you know what, I think. I, I think. What people underestimate. You look forward to your holiday, but the car journey and the packing and getting ready can be quite stressful, right? Because we often try to cram it in kind of last minute. We know we've been going on holiday for like weeks and weeks, but for some reason we leave it until about three hours before we have to leave to nearly pack everything or the day before. But, always try to kind of get ready a couple of days before, so I kind of do my laundry and I kind of do my, I, I kind of get everything ready, so the actual packing doesn't take me that long. Lesley, how do you kind of, you go, like pack the car, do you do that like the night before or do you kind of let Steve do all of this, or are you like, in the morning just grabbing in and hope for the best?

What's, what's the, the plan with you?

Lesley: Yeah, so I'm, I'm very organized with things. I'll have the right kind of bags and so I'm very much about, particularly at uni, I'm very much about, Because that's pr To be fair, that's probably the only time that we really packed the car up, you know, is the uni trips. 'cause mostly we travel by plane when we go on holiday, or by train if we go down to London.

And so we're not really going in the car that often, if I'm being honest. We do a couple of festivals and stuff where we've, packed the car up and stuff and Steve's very precious about that for whatever reason. I don't know. And so I just let him get on with that. But when the kids have gone to uni, I think it's very much about.

I'm thinking about the other end. And so it's all well and good walking out your front door and putting it in your car. But when you get to a university accommodation, you might have to walk a hundred jars before you can get where you need to be. So it needs to be something that you can carry very easily.

So those IKEA bags, they're absolutely brilliant. They have these big, like plastic, I can't remember, remember what they're called? They're like 3, 4, 5 pounds. I've used those repeatedly for the past like 15 years. I mean, Luke went to uni, so he's 30 now, so that's like 12 years ago. And we've used them when people, the kids are moving house, move from uni and of course you've got so many trips like you, you know, back and forth and back and forth with their stuff.

They're super handy and very durable. So I dunno what they're called, but they're big bags that you can sort of buy. ikea's a great, there's other places of course, but Ikea do some great ones and they're really handy 'cause you can get things like ves and pillows, a lot of which you do take particularly on a camping trip.

those kind of things. They kind of stuff 'em in and they just. Just nice and easy to carry. So you really do need to think about the other end. And so that's where you're better sort of containerizing things into bags, into boxes, so you can take the whole box at the other end, right? And so really, really important to think about it.

So you've really gotta think as well about packing by priority, depending on what's coming at the other end. And so, you know, talking about the festivals and stuff, you know, when we've gone to a festival, there's probably four of us in the car. We've got the, we've got mostly just, we've got tents, we've got some clothes, and we've.

Loads of food and drink. And so we need to think about how is, how we're gonna manage that at the other end. And so it's really important to pack by priority. Think about what you're gonna need first. 'cause sometimes you don't need to take everything out the car on day one. Or sometimes you've got a trip which has got, you might be going to one place overnight on the way there, and then you get to your main.

Place later. So you've got to think about the stages of it. So it's got to be really meticulously planned in terms of how to pack the car so you don't have to pull everything out and then repack it all again. And so, yeah, pack by priority, don't, and certainly don't bury the essentials that you might need during the journey or on the first night of the journey.

Underneath everything else, you know, I'm talking things like snacks, important documents, tickets, passports, charges, laptops, if that's what you wanna do. Don't pack those underneath. Make sure they're really handy so that you can grab them as you need them.

Ingrid: Yeah, I think that's a really

Lesley: Yep.

Ingrid: And I think especially, I mean I of course, because I'm going France and to Holland, so like my passport is like of all the things, the passport is like the most important. If we don't have the passport, that's it. At some point somebody will have a wallet and we, if. Accidentally, I've forgotten something, which not really ever happens. But no passports, no travel. So that's the thing that I've always had in my handbag on my front seat because I'm yo us most of the driving. I'm the co-pilot, but I've got like the passports ready and. On the, on the backseat between the kids is the back with all the food because, so it's like a little bit of a, a little back that's like, well, not a wall, but they, that divides them so they, everybody can get snacks.

So it's not, the snacks are not in the boots because you're always hungry when you're like on a long stretch of road and somebody goes, oh, fancy something to eat. You can't just go, well, let's pull over and pull over with the boot. You know, you have to kind of think about that a little bit.

Lesley: You have to think about the time in Ingrid, don't you? You have to think about whether 1230, what do you do when you are in France? Do you take the hour into account or so are we eating at 11th? Hang on. Which way around is that? I's the other way around, isn't it? Are we eating at one 30 when we're in holiday, when we're in Europe?

Or are we coping with that hour difference where we don't eat at 1230 on the actual dot? How does that work? Do you change based on time zones?

Ingrid: I don't really know, Lesley. I think I just, I, that's a good question. I've never really considered it. I just, because you eat late breakfast because you sleep a little bit on holiday, but yeah, I, I do need three meals a day. I can't just suddenly go, well, I'm just gonna skip a meal. People who do, they're like, oh, you know, I've been just laying on the beach all day and, I'm really hungry.

I'm like, how can you actually do life without having lunch?

Lesley: Honestly, and I know that I bring that this up all the time in this podcast, but if you were sat at the other end of a Zoom call from Ingrid and had to deal with the 1230 hangriness. Then you would feel my pain, let me tell you. So I'm interested to know how that plays out in other areas of her life. But anyway, when you go on holiday, do report back whether you've managed to kind of have the flexibility to go at one 30 for me.

So I'm gonna ask Jan. I'm gonna ask Jan, Anna, and Max how that all plays down.

Ingrid: idea.

Lesley: just talking about that as well. We talk about planning here. I think it's really important as well, and to plan for the return journey. So you need to think about how you're going to get back with all this stuff because the stuff that you bring back, you're gonna have most of the same stuff that you've taken, plus extras probably right?

Ingrid: Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's probably, you know, maybe if you're somebody who loves to go, you know, a, a, a foreign supermarket and pick up a few like cool bits or you know, things that you think, oh, that's nice souvenirs. The laundry question, like, do you put your dirty laundry back in your suitcase or do you have like a separate bag for everyone's dirty laundry?

You know, how is this going to work? How are you gonna squeeze it all in? And of course, in my case, when I go to France and I come back, where's the wine going to go?

Lesley: Exactly. So we need to make space, we need to think about that so we can't over pack, go in and not allow space for wine. Right. That would be an absolute travesty. but I am intrigued to know then Ingrid. In terms of dirty laundry, how does that play out in your family? Do you gather all the dirty laundry together to help yourself when you get home, or does everybody manage their own dirty laundry?

Ingrid: I think that's a good question. I mean, when the kids were little, definitely, I kind of took one of the bags from the kids from my own back or whatever, and I would create one bag of dirty laundry kind of when we were kind of. Packing to go back home, because that would be really helpful. Right. And I would just kind of all the clean stuff together.

But now when they're older and they're kind of pack and pack and unpack and repack their own cases, everybody, I always have a plastic bag in every suitcase, lift a plastic bag in my house, and that's where the laundry. All gets collected throughout the holiday and this plastic bags just gets put back in. But it's always a bit more difficult to get that suitcase to close on the way home, isn't it?

Lesley: Yeah,

Ingrid: honest here.

Lesley: because when it's all folded neatly or rolled or whatever you do, it's all, it sits quite nicely. But dirty laundry seems to have the volume of like. Three times as much as clean laundry, doesn't it? Do you know what I mean?

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lesley: socks, I don't know what it is because really it shouldn't, but I suppose maybe you should fold it.

I don't fold. Do you fold your dirty laundry? I just stuff it in. Do you fold it?

Ingrid: No stuff it in. I

Lesley: Yeah. Oh, Ingrid stuffs it in. I feel. So like Ingrid stuffs in as well. Woo-hoo. There's some that I thought she was going to look at me with horror and go, of course I've fold my dirty laundry. and Ingrid loves a fold. Yeah, I just stuff it in.

But maybe it's the stuffing it in, that's the problem. And maybe that's why it has more volume. So you definitely need to plan for the return, return journey as well. And you know, like I went down to London a few weeks ago and. I just about could get away with a small, a small suitcase. But I knew we would be bringing some stuff back from London.

So I took the big suitcase so that I could come, you know, you've gotta think about these things, haven't you? 'cause you don't wanna end up with having to carry extra bags and all that kind of stuff. Your future self will thank you for making a plan for the return journey journey. So,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lesley: the last thing that we wanted to talk about, and I really want to say this just to you, Ingrid, just to you.

Don't over pack. That's all I've got to say.

Ingrid: I know, I know, I know. I just, I'm terrible. I'm just, I'm very bad at this. I just think, oh, I honestly, if you would see me like, so I'm like doing my laundry the week before. I'm doing like my ironing. I've got everything like clean and ready to go, and then I go, right, I want to bring this, this, this, this.

And I look at it and I go. am I thinking? This is never going to fit in my suitcase. Then I hang back loads of stuff that I think, oh, maybe and, and then I start to think about, okay, maybe I need to get like a trouser that can have. Multiple tops. You know, I mean, I, it just, it's a whole thing and then still I like, don't even wear at least a third of the stuff and I'm like, I don't.

Why, why did I bring it in the first? I mean, I'm getting better than I used to be, but Lesley, oh my gosh. Overpacking is like a thing for me. I just, it's just never been able to travel light. It's

Lesley: I, I never bring the right thing, never ever, ever bring the right things. This, this time it's gonna be different. This holiday is gonna be different. I'm gonna bring exactly the things that I need. I, I'm, I'm like, I'm like, because I was sharing it with my friend, going to holiday with friends and I was like, you know, I'm absolutely gonna do it right this time.

So I'm the same as you. I always overpack. I think it's nice. We were talking about in a podcast a couple of weeks ago about summer wardrobes and things like that. There are certain things and you vehemently denied having one. Now I'm like, hmm, maybe she does have one. but you know those things that you think this is maybe your only chance to wear it.

'cause you wouldn't just wear that around ordinarily and it's nice to use it. 'cause if you don't use it on this holiday, it might be another year before you can use it. So that kind of idea. So, but I think, you know, we say don't over pack, but show me someone who doesn't do that. Well. Some people are organized right.

Some people don't over pack, but I think you and I both do. To be fair, you are worse than me though for sure. I would over pack for a two week holiday 'cause I'm not quite sure how that's gonna play out, but I know that two days in New Castle how that's gonna play out at a conference. And then I definitely don't over pack for that one.

Ingrid: mm.

Lesley: Ingrid. Yeah, Ingrid's still bringing like five trousers and an extra bag of shoes, bottle of wine from France. But anyway, so.

Ingrid: yeah.

Lesley: It is interesting. I think this podcast is really just about thinking, preempting what might come, thinking about doing things differently. a lot of this stuff I'm sure you're already doing and we just make our own things, but maybe if you look at your car every time you go away and think this is pure chaos at the other end.

Maybe this is time to think about doing it a little bit differently and hopefully using some of our little handy hints and tips that Ingrid and I probably don't really do most of and, trying to do it differently this time.

Ingrid: Exactly. So let us know. Let us know. Are you like a total over packer and it chaos rules and you're kind of, it takes us three hours to even leave our house when we go on holiday or are you like, no, no, got it down to a T here. Because that's the thing, Lesley, I might over pack, but if we have to leave in like 20 minutes flat in the morning. To catch the 7:00 AM ferry from Dover. We are gonna make, you know, we are gonna be there. It's not the packing and the packing of the car that's gonna be the problem. It's probably passport control in Dover that's gonna, put a spanner in the works. But, I. We are, we're very well organized and we kind of have everything ready, boom, to go into that car.

So let us know, are you an over packer or are you, have you got everything like smooth and down to a tee? We'd love to hear from you. Let us know. So yeah, I've enjoyed this podcast. I love going on holiday actually, so

Lesley: I know

Ingrid: me

Lesley: not to like, what's not to like. Exactly. The more holidays the better. But what we don't want is for holidays to be stressful and this is the kind of things that people find stressful. Right? And, and might it's. Stop people from going 'cause it's too much like hard work. We need to get you to a place where holidays are definitely not stressful.

with a little bit of decluttering, a bit of planning, and a bit of Organising.

Ingrid: Love it. So thanks so much for listening we'll see you next time.