A smiling woman, Caroline Redman Lusher sat at a piano
Episode 336 – Why community is important to mental health with Rock Choir founder, Caroline Redman Lusher

Lesley and I are lucky enough to be at the helm of a fantastic, ever-growing community that promotes positive mental health and wellbeing through the practice of decluttering and organising your home. And that is something we are incredibly proud of. But long term listeners of this podcast will have heard us mention we are also a proud part of another brilliant community too. Lesley, our assistant Ros and I are all longstanding members of a fantastic community that has singing at its heart and that is Rock Choir. Over the ten or more years that we have been singing our little hearts out, we have seen the power of community and the impact that has on thousands and thousands of people every week. We are incredibly excited today to welcome the leader of Rock Choir, Caroline Redman Lusher, MBE, onto the podcast to explain why a community of people with a common goal is so powerful and particularly when it comes to promoting positive mental health.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
Lesley and I are lucky enough to be at the helm of a fantastic, ever grown community that promotes positive mental health and well being through the practice of decluttering and organizing your home, and that is something we are incredibly proud of. But long term listeners of this podcast will have heard us mention we are also a proud part of another brilliant community too, Lesley, our assistant, Ros and I are all long standing members of a fantastic community that has singing at its heart, and that is rock choir. Over the 10 or more years that we've been singing our little hearts out, we've seen the power of community and the impact that has on 1000s and 1000s of people every week, we are incredibly excited today to welcome the leader of rock choir, Caroline, Redmond lusher MBE onto the podcast to explain why community of people with a common goal is so powerful, and particularly when it comes to promoting positive mental health. Now this podcast is a special sequence of podcasts, since we are celebrating the launch of our book, reset your home on Thursday the 27th of February, this week is all about getting to know us a little bit better behind the scenes in our world as professional organizers,

01:32
you're listening to the declutter book podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from The leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here are your hosts, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman

01:55
hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid and I'm Lesley. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find a fun factor in the serious business of decluttering, and if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd

02:15
like to get involved in conversations relating to this podcast, it all takes place in our Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm, supportive community. To find the Facebook group, go to declutter hub com, forward slash group to find out more, or you can search for the declutter hub community on Facebook. So

02:35
a very warm welcome. Thank you. Hello,

02:39
Caroline, nice to see you. We're

02:42
very excited, aren't we, Ingrid, because rock choir is such a huge part of our life. And so we were kind of like, want to go behind the scenes and let people get to know a little bit more about Ingrid and I, and that would not not be possible without talking about rock choir, because it, I would say it consumes us, but it's a massive part of our lives, and has been for the last 10 years. We sing all the time on the podcast, we talk about rock choir. We've got loads of Rockies, you know. So, yeah, we we love rock

03:09
choir. That's lovely. Thank you. And 10 years so you will know over 100 songs now, rock choir song, yes, which means you could perform, I guess, for four or five hours, if you sing every single song back to back, let's begin. Yeah,

03:27
you know what we've tried singing on the lives Lesley and I together, but it just the sound always distorts when you do this live. So Lesley always tricks me into singing, and I'm like, Oh, no. Why me again? No, let's not singer, but you are here because, of course, you're an amazing singer, but yeah, I think we can definitely say that we're so happy that you're here and that you're with us on the show, and if we can chat to you,

03:51
well, it's my it's my pleasure. I can't wait, I can't wait to talk to you. I love, I love what you're doing. Oh,

03:58
thank you so much. Now, let's start at the beginning. When did you first realize that bringing people together to sing as a choir could have such a positive impact?

04:10
Well, right at the beginning, as rock choir was, I guess, the beginning of a formula in my mind. I was an A level teacher. I was teaching performing arts and music a love at Farnborough six on college in Hampshire, and I was presented with a group of 16 year olds who who were brilliant at drama and dance but couldn't handle the music section of those three art forms, and they had to pass their as level to get to their second year. And I was given these students, what was I going to do with them? They couldn't play an instrument, they couldn't read music. What was I going to do now, I was only 26 at the time, and at 16, you know, our interest in music in the charts was very similar, and I just left a long career as a lounge singer. I'd been a performer, actually Birmingham, Manchester, and then London. So I'd been singing for long. Time, and I said to them, let's get you round the piano. I will break some pop songs down. I will teach you by rote. I will make it really easy. All you've got to do is follow some lyric sheets, which I will annotate to help you so they didn't have to play an instrument, they didn't have to read music. I didn't use any terminology that would have put them off, and I basically gave them the songs that they loved and that I loved from our popular culture. So there they were learning these fantastic songs, and then I said, right, I put you in front of your peers. I need to get your confidence up. We're leading to an exam. And then this kind of timetable began of of building them up, leading them to the next performance. They were bonding as a group, but the key in our answer to your question, the key feedback that came in were from my teacher friends and from their parents saying, their life is improving, their personalities are developing. They're becoming happier. People, their grades are going up. That was key. Their grades are going up. And they were saying, what is it you're doing with them to make this happen? It's quite phenomenal. And I at that stage, I didn't know what it was. I didn't know what this magic was that was having such an impact. But of course, over the years, the 20 years of rock choir, there's a lot of science. There's a lot of things going on in the brain when we sing, and also when we sing in a group, and I started naturally tapping into lots of other elements that created the platform that became rock choir that was going to impact mental health and improve their lives, but also the lives of those around them. So when I decided I would leave my career as an A level teacher and introduce rock car to my own community, those basic factors were the same. There would be no audition, no one would sing alone. There was no need to read music or have any experience. The pressure was on me as a teacher, to make it work. All they had to do was turn up, sit in the room and enjoy themselves, and I would busy around behind the scenes making it work. And over the years, the list of ingredients is key, even the timing of the session, the way the chairs are set out. Everything has been thought about, and the timetable remains the same. The songs, again, the pop songs, the greatest songs that make us feel good, everything became the same. But now, of course, there's a lot more finessing intelligence behind it, because I know what I'm doing, but at the time and I knew, and these students were fantastic, and they were growing and developing in front of me. Could I make the same magic happen for my community, for every age group? And that's what I was trialing out in 2005 by putting a poster in my local coffee shop and seeing what happened. And then it did happen. I think

07:44
it's really interesting Caroline, because it, you know, see something, you know, we're chatting before we started to hit record. We've just come out of a big challenge where a lot of people are brand new in our world. And what we do is we strip back what people think about decluttering, and we sort of go, don't worry about the stuff. Think about your emotional connection first and foremost. And then the light bulbs go on. And so when you strip out, what everybody typically knows about music in your instance, about decluttering in our world, is that people go, oh, there's a different way of doing this. And that's where the magic absolutely happens. And so it's really, really similar as well, you know, having these formulas, we have our reset, your home, road map, all that kind of stuff, and just to take the thinking out of it a little bit, and to just let people enjoy it, and to go, actually, this is fun. And so we closed up last night, everyone's like, Oh, this is so much fun. I feel so positive about life. So it's, it's really, really similar, isn't it, in terms of, you know, taking it back and doing things a little bit differently, and that's what you absolutely do with rock quiet. And

08:45
I think, you know, when we use our voices also, there's a lot of anxiety around voicing a noise that comes from our body, because you can't hide, you can't hide behind a bar, and you can't blame it on the piano. It's all about using our our body to create sounds. So by stripping away all the extra Well, I can't read music. My my choir teacher told me I couldn't be in the choir 40 years ago, and I was at school asking them to just believe and trust in our in the rock choir, way the rock choir team, and just blend the voice with everyone. I mean, I, I'm truly in awe of every single rocky that has come into my world, to take part in it, because I hear stories. It takes some, some Rockies, up to two years to actually walk into the room. They they'll sit in the car park, they'll watch. Who are these other people going in? I haven't got the confidence, and it's not necessarily about their voice, it's about the situation they're in and their their life has just become just one big anxiety, and they're being attacked from all sides. And can they break free from that just for an hour and a half a week to come in and start gradually benefiting from that community? Unity and that act of singing, which is, I think, why I feel so protective of the Rockies. I just want to look after them all, because they've been brave enough to join me and join my team. So getting rid of all that extra stuff that's in their world and their preconceived ideas about singing and about what a choir is. I had to break the tradition of auditioning, break the tradition of being able to read music. And I spent years vocalizing, what is rock choir. This is what it is. And eventually, now I don't have to. We're a household name, and people know that if they come into it, they're going to benefit in some magical way from the rock choir experience. So yeah, it's about stripping back, isn't it, and just focusing and doing something for yourself to look after yourself.

10:49
Absolutely, I know it takes me back to when I joined back in June 2011 it was right after the show was on television, when you all sang in Wimbledon. And I saw Wembley, Wembley, Wembley. And I saw it, and I went, I want to do that. And my kids were tiny at the time, and I was like, I said to my husband, I don't care. Wednesday night, between eight and 930 I'm going to go to choir. And 13 years later, and they're new members coming. I'm like, Hi, have you been here long? I'm like, Yeah, 1313, years. And they're like, Oh

11:22
my word. And I'm like, I love it. And that's testament to the yeah, that you don't get bored of it, that you're still engaged, you know? And that is interesting. So we're looking after those brand new members that you're talking about, who've walked into the room, but we're also looking after a rocky like you, who's been at 13. How can we still make it fantastic for you, but also nurture that new, well, continue to nurture you, but nurture that brand new member who's come in. Yeah,

11:46
yeah, yeah. I think it's interesting that you're talking about, you know, people sitting in the car park and being anxious about stuff, because we all have this, these preconceived ideas about what's required for it, whether that's decluttering or whether that's singing. And you know, you've got lots and lots you've got 1000s of 1000s of rock choir advocates out there, Caroline fighting your corner for you say, Oh, come do rock choir. It's amazing. You know what I mean? Like, sharing it, posting things, you know, because we all love it so much and so and people always go, oh, I can't sing. And, you know, we're like, you don't need to be able to sing like, like, just as long as you can kind of basically hold the tune. That's fine. It's not really about that, is it? You know, because you can kind of, it's about it's about so much more than that, and it's getting that information across really. So, yeah, it's really interesting, because it's hard, isn't it, when you feel that you've got to be something to turn up, and it can be daunting walking into a room of people where you feel that you've not quite done same with decluttering. You feel ashamed. You've been judged all your life. You know, you you're in a bad place sometimes. And you know just being able to lift yourself up is so, so important. And that's what we see every week, you know, Ingrid. And I go in there after a busy week, and honestly, sometimes on a Tuesday, I'm like, Oh, I just don't know whether I can do it because I'm so tired. And then you just go, make yourself go, make yourself going within five minutes of being in the room like this is, like, the best thing that I've done all week, because it's just such a huge lift. And, you know, I mean, you'll know the science behind it, um, Caroline, but you know, that big sort of dopamine hit of going in there and just singing your little heart, and that's what it's all about, and then, but the sense of community really is what we wanted to talk about today, because we feel that that's where our two worlds are very aligned. You know, we've already spoken about mental health, a little bit anxiety. You know, feeling ashamed sitting in the car park, not quite getting there. You know that power of community is everything in our world. Just being around people who feel the same is so important, and you must see that all the time in your world as well. Well,

13:42
of course, yeah, of course. I mean, there are 400 choirs rehearsing, and that might be a number of 30 to 150 people in the room from that local community. So you're walking into like minded people who might live down the road, or you realize the person next to who's just joined is actually your neighbor by one, and you've never talked, and suddenly you've got this, I know this power of being around people who who have naturally got your back, and it's a sense of belonging. I think we all need to feel we belong to something. It's in our DNA, to group. You know, we're not meant to be lonely people. We're meant to be part of something. And you see it at the football matches, you see all these people coming together. They're wearing the branding that they're recognizing one another. They've got something in common. And also, you know, in in life you hear about, you know, you come together when you have a common enemy. Whatever that enemy is, you know, if you've got, if it's about lack of self confidence, and that's the enemy. Then you're you're in the right environment where other people are trying to win too. So immediately, you're bonding with one another, and you're in your own community, in an environment where, as we get older, as adults, we have less and less opportunity to meet others, especially for unless you're one of those people who's amazing and go out and. And help others. And you know you're a big figure in the community, but knowing your neighbors, knowing that in the room you're going to see that person from your local shop, or your child's teacher is in the choir. And you know you're you're engaging, but also you're experiencing something on a level. There's no hierarchy between the Rockies. You could have a city banker over here. You could have a mum of four over here. You know it everyone is the same in that room, and you're giving yourself space like you do on a Wednesday up to just be distracted and be led and be looked after by the by the rock car leader at the front of the room. And then, of course, the rock choir leader announces, right on the fourth of March, we are going to perform at a local school festival. We're under pressure. There's 500 people coming. We're going to learn all these three new songs, and then we're going to perform. And you're, oh, oh, wow, that's only in so many weeks we and you're all doing it together. You're doing something that's a little bit, maybe a little bit frightening, but exciting at the same time, and you will achieve that. You'll travel together, you'll you'll organize lift shares, you'll arrange to go off for coffee afterwards, and suddenly you're going on holiday with that person six months later, because you realize all you're both into knitting. I love knitting. Let's get together and knit together in Book Club, wine club, holiday club, party club, because you're from that community and it's it's really brilliant to have organizations that allow adults to come in after you left school college, after you've made friends at the school gate, where you can come together and experience something together and be, be your own community.

16:44
I would never have imagined that I will be going to Tenerife in two weeks with Christine Sam, Emma and Rachel, my rocky friends that I've never Yeah, that's happening in just a few weeks. So yeah, going on a rocky holiday. I'm sure there are many rock player songs when we've had a few videos,

17:03
but what we see is that the Rockies that go away together, they take their T shirts and they have a night where they take photos, or they take, you know, and I've heard the hilarious stories of T shirts being worn in the most remote places with a thumbs up to say a Rocky has been here. Really fantastic. Yeah,

17:21
absolutely. So fast forward, Caroline. So it's an incredible organization, and we obviously love it, and we'll wax lyrical about it all day, but you had a very recent accolade that we want to talk about and congratulate you on. Thank

17:33
you. Yes, an MBE in the king's new honors list and the BBC Breakfast invited me to go on on New Year's Eve and be interviewed so they could announce it and celebrate it, live with the nation. So yeah, I'm well. I actually knew in November I had to keep it quiet. It's really hard to keep it quiet. I drank champagne almost every night on my own, well done.

18:05
Just Caroline and be Caroline hen be here sipping champagne. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's fantastic, and well deserved as well. You've done so much for so many things, and it's not just the Rockies themselves. You know, you support charities, you're you're performing all these different schools, whether it's really local events, much bigger events, you know, you're doing your bit for other communities outside of rock choir as well. So fantastic. Thank

18:28
you. Thank you. There's a lot of lots of connections, again, that comes from each rehearsal in each community, where we support local organizations and local charities, and then those local events and organizations might connect on a regional basis, where we do regional events, and then, of course, we tip into the national events and the National charities like comic relief. We're great friends with comic relief now, and there's something exciting coming up this year that I can't tell you about with comic relief, where they're celebrating our connection with them and rewarding us, I guess, helping them again as always, and the Mental Health Foundation, they're very precious to me and to the team. So I'm going to be doing something up at parliament with them this year. So it's it's good, it's very positive. And of course, cash for kids. That's another big thing that we do every year at Christmas for those the big national charities, yeah, it's, it's all about looking after others, isn't it? Looking after each other?

19:29
I think, you know, you know. And behind you there's an amazing team of people, right? You know. And of course, you are the figurehead, but there's an amazing people at your HQ, your voc, choir leaders that we all love. I mean, could you envisage, like 20 years ago, that it would grow the way it has, and that you're now an MBE for services to charity and music? I mean, what an honor. I mean, could you ever thought he would be this big and this fantastic?

19:56
No, I and I never, I never planned. For anything like this. It's been an organic development over the years. There was a there was a time in the first few years where the the reaction was so extreme in my local community that it was my dad. My dad's very close. We're very close. And he said to me, okay, do you want to carry on like this, or do you want to go big? Because I think you have this, this opportunity to go big, if that's what you want to do. Now going big, I who knows what that means when you've got 300 members in Farnham, Guildford and godly, but going big, well, I, I'm, I'm someone who will always be excited by the big stuff, the big plans, the crazy stuff. So I just said, yeah, let's get big. What does that even mean? Let's go big. And then, of course, there are some days it's not all smiley, happy stuff. There are some days where I think, wow, why did I go big? And then other days where I have these, I call them magical moments, where I observe, I just take a step back, really, and I observe the situation, and I just think, Wow, this is the most wonderful thing, and it's always to do with people. You know, you just mentioned my team, and I was really thrilled to be able to talk about the team on the BBC Breakfast couch, because I know they were all going to watch that session and to thank them for being the people that they are, for being dedicated, for joining me and trusting me, and for helping me to look after the Rockies like they are. Because it takes a lot, you know, these, especially the choir leaders, they have been honing their skills like I have since I was since they were children, all of those years of practicing and performing and working with music to be able to do what they do. It's a very demanding role in front of each choir. So rock choir obviously wouldn't be as successful or as huge without the right people working with me. And there are 140 now in the team. There's nearly 100 choir leaders, and the rest are based at HQ in Farnham. There's a lot of people actually, who are contracted, who work remotely to help as well. And yeah, I'm very lucky. I feel I've got the best working with me. And interestingly, but for the very odd few who've come into the team, and it hasn't worked for them, it's mainly due to personality, that you have to be a certain type of personality for this to work. But when we get it right, of course, it's it. Life becomes easy when they're the right people working with me,

22:31
yeah, and everybody feels so that their own leaders like the best, don't they? Yeah, Luke's best thing. We know Michael's best. They

22:46
are. And then the nice, the lovely thing is, although there's this fun competition element of who's the best, and every, every time I visit a leader, and for example, we call them the big thing when I well go, I did 80 big things last year, visiting and that everyone will whisper, yeah, but Michael is the best, isn't he? Tell me, Michael, yeah, okay, okay, but don't quote me, and I say it on every single night. But the lovely thing is, behind the scenes, the choir leader team experience a lifestyle very similar to the members, where they are a team, they are a community. They're friends, they go on holiday together, they they bond, they share, they support each other. And you know, and we have new choir leaders coming in all the time. We had three new choir leaders last week at pre term training that I introduced to everybody, and I've said to everyone, you know what it's like when you're the new person, please overwhelm them with your love and your support and bond with them so that they go back to their community knowing that you've got their back, and they're all on the phone to one another driving home from their rehearsals across the country, because They all basically rehearse at the same time, and they're on the phone in the car. Well, some of them have up to an hour's drive, and they'll just chat to one another on the way back about maybe something that was tricky to teach in the song, or going over, or questions. And I know I look at my watch sometimes 11 o'clock and said they're all talking to one another right now in the car. And it's lovely. I love it. Now, Caroline,

24:22
we are a decluttering podcast, and it will be wrong of us not to talk to you about clutter. So we're going to pop to a short break, and then we're going to come back and talk to you about your relationship with clutter. Oh dear. Okay,

24:35
hi everyone. We are back from a short break. Caroline is still with us, and now we're gonna get into the nitty gritty, and we're gonna cut to the chase, because we need to know from you, Caroline, have you got clutter? I mean, the room you're in now looks very organized, but what's lurking behind the scenes, what's going on there? You

24:55
know what? I like to think that I am organized and that I'm cluttered. Free. But the biggest enemy of Mine is lack of time. I rarely have time. And I must admit, even though behind me might look very tidy, everywhere else in the room, I mean, there are neat, tidy piles of things that I need to come back to just sort through. I like to categorize. I like to lay things out. I have a huge desk. I don't I don't like everything being on a computer. I like to physically see documents and things as reminders. And you know, when I, for example, I'm looking at a pile of paperwork that needs shredding, but I don't have a shredder, so that's been sitting there for about six months waiting to be dealt with. But generally, I don't know it depends when I thought I was okay until some of my team joined me that the managing director of rock choir Stephanie holiday is so organized that in the early days of knowing her, she admitted that she actually bleached her ceilings when she cleaned the house. And I'd never heard of that before. How she likes things to be she was she was trained as an accountant, very black and white. Everything in a box, everything has a home. And it's I thought I was okay, until I met her and thought, wow, this is extreme, and she's not alone at the office. All, all the team who are into their logistics and organization, the timetable getting ahead of themselves. They are hugely organized in all of their life. Their emails get get put straight into the categories and priorities. And I think I've let go a little bit because I know they're so organized. I don't think I'm lazy, but I have. I just think it's a massive lack of time. I I've lived in this house for nine years, and there are still boxes I haven't unpacked, but I don't like a mess. I can't work in a mess. It's not OCD, but I don't I don't like walking in. I have to clear before I can get on with the work. Does that make sense? Okay, yeah, absolutely.

27:11
And what about So creativity and clutter often go hand in hand. Now, obviously you're quite organized from what you said. What about those creative ideas? Because you're obviously constantly thinking about songs and harmonies and all of the musical terms that I don't know Caroline, so I just, I just listened to her. I'm trying to think about the correct musical terms. But so how do you gather those ideas together? Because when you've got all these ideas going through your mind all the time, how do you capture those? I'm interested in that. Well,

27:41
do you know what? Everything, everything goes onto my phone. Everything, so I have, I have in my notes. I use my notes app in my phone all the time, on my folder all the time. So under there is rock choir, new rock choir tours, NEC arena, and a lot of things go in there. And then I have a weekly meeting with my head of creative, Sam Smith, and all the ideas get get put out. I'm, for example, all of the songs you're going to be learning in rock choir till the end of spring next year are listed in my phone. New song ideas, listen to this, dismiss this because of these lyrics, or whatever it is. It's all in my phone, and it's the only place I'll now write because I know it's there. Even my tours and my trips and my flights, my hotel details go into that same note form under British Airways, flights and trips, and everything is in there that I need to know so I am organized. I mean, if I ever lose my phone, goodness knows what's going to happen. Also, I have a paper diary. I like a paper diary. I don't like necessarily to use Google, although I will update Google for everybody else who looks at my diary. And I like a whole week in advance, and that's where I'm writing everything. So creative ideas go in the paper diary or in my phone, nowhere else. Let's talk

29:08
about your book, Caroline, because you wrote a book, and we're obviously here because our book is coming out this Friday, we can talk as fellow authors about book writing. How did that come about? And how did you find the process of writing the book? So

29:24
the book, The Story of rock choir, it was sitting on the ideas list for a long, long time. People would comment all the time, either a movie or a book. And I spent a few years working with a team who approached me about the movie, and we couldn't quite make it work, mainly because of, I guess, not an argument, but we just never agreed on changing the facts into fiction. It would make me uncomfortable, and they wanted to change some of the facts to make the film work. And I, I said, Yeah, but that's not what actually happened, and the Rockies might think that. That's what happened, and it never happened. So it didn't feel right. And they said, Listen, what you got to do first is write the book, and then there's something. All the facts are there. It can be an honest book. So a publisher actually contacted me through a rocky they are, it's all connections, it's all community and and she said, I'm a boutique publisher. I tend to focus on women, successful women. Are you interested? And I said, Well, it's come at the right time. And so we we sat and talked and talked, and she set some deadlines, which I rejected immediately because I couldn't meet them. And then, and then we began, yeah, and we had an idea of when we wanted to release it, that got changed because of not meeting the deadlines. And fortunately, in January last year, I broke my ankle, and that allowed me to lie down, sit down for weeks on end and write the book. So I did most of it during the time where I couldn't walk or it was in a wheelchair. So I was thrilled, because it forced me to stop. I was still on tour with the broken ankle, but it wasn't heavy going. It was 11 nights, not 80 nights. So the whole timing worked really well, and I sat and just worked and worked and worked. And it's one of the biggest projects I've ever done. I found it fascinating but very demanding. What about you? Um,

31:26
well, we thought it was, we, we had to, it's hard because you've got to fit it into your day. Yeah, that's the problem. That is the problem. So I think, you know, if you could just take yourself off for like six weeks and write it would be great. But I think we had to fit it around everything else, didn't we Ingrid? So I think it was there would and you have to be in the right headspace as well. So it can't be like, Oh, I've got to do two hours on the book. You've got to be in the complete right headspace to write it. And a lot of the ideas with us, wouldn't you know, like you, yours is very autobiographical, so you know what you want to write, but it's putting it into a structure that's going to work and tell a story and be engaging. So, yeah, we got there in the end. But I can't say that it was easy. Was it Ingrid? I think it was like it was one of the toughest things that we've done, as I'm sure you found as well Caroline, but just jumping back to the to your broken ankle, what we did to see you, because we were at Blackpool Tower.

32:17
Oh, you're at Blackpool

32:21
as you hobble down with your with your broken ankle, absolutely and England, we wanted to talk a little bit more about Hamilton, didn't we? Yes, because,

32:30
of course, you've got your little boy, Hamilton. And we were wondering, of course, because, as most people, have you, seen an increase in stuff coming into your home now you've got Hamilton because, of course, all the stuff that comes with kids,

32:45
it's quite remarkable. I mean, I'm very lucky. I we had a dining room that we took the table out and we said, this is his playroom. Let's try and keep everything in one room as much as possible. And it has worked quite well. Yeah, but yeah, the I mean, when they arrive as a as a baby, who knows what you need, suddenly you need all these things. And it's very costly. And I do feel for young mums who are having to buy all this stuff that's out there. And you think I'm sure this stuff didn't exist 100 years ago. How did people cope? Because it's there to try and make it much safer for the baby and much easier for the parents, but yeah, I was very keen to remove or donate as quickly as possible, as soon as I realized didn't need it. My older sister has got a little boy who's 18 months older, and it was very useful for me, because she would hand things down to me, and it would show me that that's what he needs next, because I didn't know what he would need next. And then I know so many people, and I donate. In fact, there are two choir leaders, Alex and Narelle, who whose little boys are a year younger. So every pre term I take two huge bags of things, clothes, mainly, and things for them, I keep the very sentimental articles of clothing I keep in a nice box. And think these are memory things, first, shoes, that kind of thing. But the toys, yeah, I'll move them on as soon as I can. And even though it's a sizable room, and we're very lucky to have that room for him, I'm again, I walk in and there's stuff everywhere, and I can't bear it, and I really struggle to sit in that mess. So very recently, I bought three huge sets of drawers, matching drawers, seven drawers in each, and put them at one end of the room. Got rid of everything else, moved my piano, because I put the piano that I learnt on as a four year old into his nursery in the hope that's been shifted away. I can't bear to get rid of that. It's too sentimental. So that's in a different place room, all these drawers, and I just everything has gone in these drawers, and it's so much better. But of course, Christmas has come along, and there's all this new stuff. With nowhere to go. And he's learning now, though, to help clear up so, so that's good. And we've got a book wrap one end. He took out every single Mr. Man book, Mr. Men book, and threw them across the floor to look for one he wanted. And I could feel my heart racing thinking, oh my god, I just want to put those books back. Let me put those. And my husband keeps saying, Let him play. Let him see what he's got. I'm gonna No, no, no, it has to be tidy. I can't spend all our time in that playroom with him. We've got a lovely lounge that is the posh lounge, you know that you always keep really neat and tidy, and we haven't used it once this Christmas because we've been in his playroom. So, so yeah, and it's a bit like Christmas. Once you've got past that New Year's Day, you just want to clear the tree. You want to get on with the new month, don't you? So, so there's a lot of stuff I don't like, all the plastic, not the fan. I'll try and use wooden toys if I can, or things that can be, you know, burnt. I had a cardboard slide for him, which was very good. Odd that it was made of cardboard, but I thought, Great, I can. We can just deal with that. We can recycle that. We can send that off. That's fine. So, yeah, so um, but he's only four, so I mustn't get too difficult about he needs to play, yeah, playing tidy. Tidy.

36:21
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, he's, he's the age that he can get involved, and then he can get involved, indeed, with the tidying up, right? Because then that's what they're learning nursery as well, and they're gonna learn in reception. So you're on the right track. Until now, it's probably all the tidings, but on you. But now definitely, he's gonna come of the age that he can definitely help. And you know that you get me all, can you give mommy all the Mr. Men books so we can put them back in the book? I

36:44
did try that last night. I said, Can we help Matt? But by the time he actually walked over, he gets very distracted. He's very intense about his stories. He's got, he's got about maybe 15 monster trucks. And he likes to line them up and then re line them up. You know, he's it's all about order, isn't it? He's learning about, I guess, order and color and everything, and he but he likes to create this long snake for them across the room, just where the walking part of the room is trying to tidy them. And then he gets really upset with me if I touch them. So, yeah, yeah. I need to relax a little bit I think about that.

37:23
Yeah, it sounds good. He's trying to create order and structure. That sounds like a good thing. That sounds like the great foundations Caroline. So let's jump back and talk a little bit more about rock choir and rocks coming up this year. You've already told us some exciting things that are happening. We know there's something very exciting in November. Do you want to talk about that? It was? That? It was, well,

37:43
the exciting news, and we, we've been working for years to try and make a huge arena show happen. It was meant to happen in 2020 and of course, with the pandemic, we couldn't. And then post pandemic production costs were crazily high, so we've had to work for a couple of years now to try and make this arena show happen at the NEC, but keep the ticket prices low, which is what's key for rock choir members, accessible, inclusive. Those are the key words behind rock choir. So if the ticket prices are too high, some will be alienated. And we want every rocky to come to this event Saturday, the 29th of November. There are two shows the NEC arena. It's now called the BP pulse live arena, but I'll still reference it as NEC arena, because we know what that means. And this is the first ever arena show where the general public will be invited to attend. So it's not a private in house show anymore. It's out there for the general public to enjoy. So Live Nation approached us, and they are now on board. We're about to announce our new relationship. Now we're getting a record deal to have Live Nation on board. So Live Nation are taking responsibility for getting the public to come to this event. But of course, we want to prioritize the Rockies First, make sure that they have their tickets, and once they have bought their tickets, over a short window, it will go out to the general public, and it's called The Ultimate Christmas party. So all the big party hits followed by a very beautiful Christmas section. And with celebrity artists coming, we've had one confirm already. We're waiting for the second one we've gone after, and that will be announced. They will be announced very soon.

39:35
That's exciting. I know I can't wait, so I'm like, I'm already organizing the troops, yes. How are we going? When are we going? I made like polls in WhatsApp already, yeah, yeah.

39:45
Very organized as I would expect. Yeah,

39:49
exactly. And I've been tasked with the with the job of getting tickets, which is going to be interesting. So I'll be signing on at nine o'clock or whatever time it is. And so yeah, and I think. It. You know, this, this podcast really has been about what Ingrid and I do behind the scenes, but I think it was important for us to get Caroline on, because what we see a lot of times with in the decluttering world is that everybody feels when their homes are chaotic and overwhelming and people have been judged, and all of the things that we've spoken about, that it can be too easy to be a slave to your home. And I think what we found so often is that once you start to clear the clutter, then it opens opportunities for other life enhancing things we love so much that people all of a sudden move into things like general well being, general health. We got into losing weight, all of those things that are taking care of our minds and our bodies and Ingrid. And I wholeheartedly get behind the idea that singing in a choir is one of the very best things that you can do for your own mental well being wherever you are. But sometimes we need to clear that clutter before we can kind of get there. Not all the time, do both alongside each other. I think it's very clear from the things that we spoke about on the podcast before from our chat with Caroline here today, that we stand wholeheartedly behind it. We love rock choir. We know that a lot of our listeners are elsewhere in the world and not in the UK. So there will be something equivalent before Caroline goes for world domination over in the States and Canada.

41:14
Is that on the cards? It is on the cards? Yeah. Oh,

41:17
exactly. So you heard it here first. So you know, just go out there, do something for yourself. You know, join a choir, join a community, see what positive mental health benefits that has, because it definitely has for us, hasn't it? Ingrid,

41:32
yeah, without the doubt. I mean, our weeks get busy, our lives get busy, but that one and a half hours on a Wednesday for me and on a Tuesday evening for you, it's sacrosanct, and we go religiously every week, and we are gutted when we have to miss a week because you get behind you, you think, Oh, I met and you want to see your friends. So, you know, we love it, and, yeah, I think it's definitely so important that there's more to life than the stuff in your house, and having that hold you back from the life where you currently want to be and where you want to go to. So that's why decluttering is so important, and it opens up the opportunity to do all the other things that are important and which makes life interesting, and friendships can can develop, and it's fantastic. Absolutely. Sorry.

42:21
Go ahead. Sorry. I'm just saying you've been very sweet about rock con. I really appreciate it. And it is time for you. It's that. It's that separate time for you to look after yourself and invest in yourself, I think, and you're right. There is a big world out there, and we can get very caught up in patterns and put all this pressure on ourselves, and it's about breaking free from that and doing something just for yourself.

42:45
So Caroline, if people want to know more about your book, at Rock choir, what do they do? Where do they need to go? Where can they find out more?

42:54
Well, if they go to rock choir.com, they will see the tab that says, join now or book a free taster session. They need to put their postcode in, and it will pop up with all the local rehearsals to them that they can choose. And the first session is free for them to go along and see if they like it. And just to add that if you do miss your week of rehearsal, that you can go to any other rehearsal in the entire country to make up for it. Or you can double up the next week. In fact, as a member, you can go to as many a week as you like. So if you're having a particularly difficult time, or you've gone on holiday and you want to have extra singing that week, it's all there for the member to choose from. So rock quad.com, post code, pre toast this session.

43:40
Thank you so much. And

43:42
your lovely book, Caroline, yes, so

43:44
I've got the book. Can you see that? Here it is. It's called sing, the story of rock core. It came out in October. It's a it's a lovely, chunky book, but apparently, based on feedback, it's a great page turner. So that's, that's great. And it's also, it's number one in one of the Amazon book charts at the moment, which is lovely. So it's all about hot music. It's about, I don't know, woman trying to make a career, having a great time, but also experiencing the real issues with people, the emotions of people, and creating a massive community. So it's the truth behind rock choir,

44:26
absolutely. So yeah, thank you so much for sharing your book. Of course, one of the reasons why we're here in English and Lesley week is to learn all a little bit more about us behind the scenes, because it is our book launch week as well. So you can go buy both, you can buy sing and you can buy reset your home, and you can push us both into those Amazon best seller lists, right? So reset your home, unpack your emotions and your clutter, step by step, is out for release on the 27th of February from all good booksellers. So do go out there and buy it and make our week Yes.

44:57
So thank you. Caroline. Being here. Thank you for sharing your information and for being a guest on our show. It's been absolutely phenomenal to have you and Yeah,

45:08
well, thank you for having me. I've loved it. Love meeting you properly. Oh, thank you.

45:18
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hook podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode and we'll see you next week.
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Episode 336 – Why community is important to mental health with Rock Choir founder, Caroline Redman Lusher

Episode 389 – Overcoming mobility challenges when decluttering with member Rory

Episode 387 – Our 2025 year in review – the big Declutter Hub round-up

Episode 386 – 10 Tell-Tale Signs that you need to Declutter your House

Episode 385 – Life Skills for Kids with Katie Kimball

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Reset Your Home

Unpack your emotions and your clutter, step by step
