A photograph of member Laura wearing a headband and white top
Episode 220 – Laura shares her decluttering journey

Today, we have our lovely member Laura on the podcast. We are going to be talking all about decluttering small spaces, sustainability and lots more besides.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Lesley: It's been a while since we've spoken to a member about their decluttering journey. So today you are in for a treat as we have our lovely member, Laura, on the podcast, we're going to be talking all about decluttering, small spaces, sustainability, and lots more besides,

[00:00:15] There now today I am very, very excited to welcome our lovely member, Laura. Now, it's so nice because Laura has been a member with us since 2020, I think. Laura? Yeah. So you're a longstanding member and we've loved having you. So welcome. Hello, 

[00:00:30] Laura: I'm pleased to be here. Fame at last. I 

[00:00:33] Lesley: know fame at last, Laura was like, when are you going to ask me to go on the podcast like Now the nice thing is, Laura, we've actually met you, haven't we?

[00:00:39] We met you at the Ideal Home Show in March, I think it was, and then we also met you with the Clean and Tidy Home show as well a few weeks ago in October. So, um, so we feel like we know you quite well and we've met you, which was lovely. So tell us a little bit about yourself. Um, 

[00:00:56] Laura: so, uh, so yeah, so I joined the membership in August, 2020.

[00:01:00] We were in full lockdown then, so I was, I was, uh, starting my decluttering journey while we were locked down. I'm in my late thirties. I live in a flat in London. I, I'd live on my own, so in a small space. But with all my own stuff, if that makes sense I suppose. 

[00:01:15] Lesley: Yeah. It's so funny cause I said to, I said to Laurie, you need to talk about yourself and you can sound like say, I'm like, and then she's like, I don't dunno what to say.

[00:01:21] I'm like, whatcha you? You can tell I that old you if you want. I'm like, how old are you? Are you like twenties or early thirties? She's like late thirties. She's looking good. Anybody's watching on YouTube. She's looking good for late thirties. Oh see 

[00:01:31] Laura: this, this is is worth being a member just for that alone.

[00:01:34] Cause. What about the fourth time you said something like that? I'm 

[00:01:38] Lesley: like, oh, I know, I know. It's 

[00:01:40] Laura: so nice, Laura. 

[00:01:41] Lesley: Yeah, so you do, so you live in it. That's the, that's the interesting thing about this, Laura, is that you have a different kind of journey than many of our members who live in sort of standard, let's call 'em houses.

[00:01:51] No, you live in a smaller property. You live in a flat. In in so what in southeast London? South London. All right. South London. Yeah, south London. So you are a little bit tight on space. It's a beautiful flat, but it is, you are a little bit restricted in terms of what you can keep in your home and that's what we're going to talk a little bit about, isn't it?

[00:02:07] Declutter in small spaces? because you've got that nailed now after a few years in the membership. Well, I think you have anyway. So. Let's take it back then. Let's take it back to 2019, early 2020. So we're about to embark on lockdown and we all think everything's fine and dandy, don't we? And then all of a sudden we are stuck then in our homes.

[00:02:28] And I think, Laurie, you told us that you found the podcast first. Is that right? 

[00:02:33] Laura: Um, yeah. So. It was basically when the first lockdown was announced and we, we were all going to be in our homes for a lot and people started talking about things like, oh, I could use this time for something really productive, but I could learn a language or dunno what people were doing.

[00:02:48] Um, I didn't learn a language, so I, I had clutter for a long time and I, it been bothering me for a long time, but I just felt like I never had time to sort of do anything significant about it. So, yeah, lockdown hit and I thought, well, This is actually a really good chance. I'm not going to be able to see anyone.

[00:03:05] I'll just actually just sit down and, and do it. And I was like, but I wasn't very good at decluttering and so I needed some inspiration. So I just kind of did a bit of a search for podcasts, came up, um, found the declutter hub, um, started listening to the podcast. So I was kind of just binging them and then found out about the membership through that.

[00:03:23] And, um, and yeah. Here I am. Here You are? Three years 

[00:03:27] Lesley: later. Yeah, two years later. Hang on. How is that? Three years doing a bit. 

[00:03:30] Laura: Um, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Two and a Wow. Two 

[00:03:33] Lesley: years. Two and a half years later. Yeah. Crazy times. So you talk about the fact that you had clutter in your home. Give us an idea then, Laura.

[00:03:40] What did that clutter look like? So give us a visual representation of how much of a problem it was to you and how you felt about that clutter. So I've, I've never 

[00:03:50] Laura: liked clutter, but then I'm, I've always been really bad at getting rid of things, so it's a bit of a conflict there. I, I like clear surfaces and things, but yet I had a lot of stuff, so I found it.

[00:04:00] It was quite stressful. So I had just, there were things that had a place, and that's fine. They were in their place. But then I ran out of places, and so there was a lot of things like just in piles at the side of the room and on tables and things like that, that just shouldn't have been there. They.

[00:04:16] Either needed a home or they needed to go or, and actually, one of the things I've learned on this journey is, A lot of my kind of furniture and systems and stuff just weren't actually fit for purpose. So in some, so I did have class, I did have too much stuff I needed to get rid of stuff. But also there was a lot where it was like, actually this isn't too much stuff.

[00:04:36] I just don't have anywhere to put it. And so I sort of thought about my furniture as well and systems of MA making the most space in drawers and all sorts of things like that has also really helped me. 

[00:04:47] Lesley: Definitely I think that, I think the thing is about when you live in a small space, you have to make different decisions about your stuff than you do with somebody.

[00:04:55] You know, somebody who lives in a studio flat, not that yours is a studio flat, and somebody who lives in a five bedrooms such house has got the benefit of making a different decision about what kind of stuff and the volumes of stuff that they keep. So, but when you live in a flat, and if you want it to be, you know, clutter free, you want those.

[00:05:09] Surfaces to be free, the kind of things that you're talking about. It's just that little bit more difficult, isn't it, Laura? Because you, you can't keep everything that you want to, so you have to make harder decisions. It's also the same kind of idea as when people start to downsize. In some ways, it's simpler than when you've got space to breed, if you know what I mean.

[00:05:27] Sometimes it's like, well, if you want it to be clutter free, you have to make a decision to let that go or to not buy it in the first place, ideally. So it's just a very, very different decision making process and. What a lot of people in smaller homes do is they don't get to that realization early and then they become completely overwhelmed.

[00:05:44] Now, you, um, have shared lots of pictures of your journey with us in the Decla Hub forum, so we've seen exactly, um, what you've got in your house, the kind of furniture that you've got. We've done lots of deep dives for you as well. So one of the things that we do in the decla tub sometimes if, if people share photos with us, what that means is we can look.

[00:06:03] At their homes and go, put this there. Think about doing this. That's not the right furniture. Think about getting something different, put some boxes in, and so on. So we love doing our deep dives and we've done a couple of those, I think for you, Laura, haven't we? Yes. And so I think we've got a good feel for what your, um, flat looks like.

[00:06:19] And you're right, it wasn't completely overwhelmed with stuff, but there was just little piles of stuff around, wasn't there? 

[00:06:26] Laura: Yeah. Um, I felt overwhelmed by it. I guess so. Right. Um, I. Yeah, one of the things I learned, I think, was actually I didn't, I wasn't as cluttered as I thought I was. I suppose. I mean, I, I was, and I absolutely needed to go through things and I had too much for the space that I've got, you know, given that I live on my own, I'm only, this is only one person's stuff.

[00:06:49] But then, um, I dunno if you can see on YouTube, but, so my flat is, um, It's converted from a Victorian house and I live in the roof, so it means that actually, uh, which I bought because I thought, oh, this is so lovely. It adds character and stuff and I really liked it. But then I realize now, actually it's not very practical because you can't, you see my kitchen behind, I can't really have cupboards up.

[00:07:11] And so I just have less space because 

[00:07:13] Lesley: of that. Yeah. I mean, you're right, Laura. As soon as, as soon as you've got those kind of eaves spaces or those kind of sloping ceiling, what that means is you can't have full height furniture. You can't have Walker Cup birds. Exactly. You know? And so it makes it more difficult.

[00:07:25] So it looks really cute and quaint, but then you Yeah, but it's quite restricting. That's the problem, isn't it? You know? Mm-hmm. But it is, it's a beautiful flat, and you've just, you've got to work around that. That's the important thing. And it's interesting that you talk about the fact that. You know, I said that you didn't have a lot of clutter and what you said is, but you felt overwhelmed because everyone's got a different level of tolerance.

[00:07:45] Of clutter. Yeah. So obviously somebody like Ingrid and I get a little bit freaked out when things are out of place. Not really, you know, that sounds ridiculous, but you know, we, we are, our level of tolerance of clutter is low and some of the peoples are a little bit high, and you are obviously, This somewhere in the middle you are, even though you've got stuff, you're not as tolerant.

[00:08:01] Whereas some people are quite happy to live with stuff around them, so their tolerance of clutter is high. And so it's not, you know, there's not some magic formula about what that looks like. Overwhelm comes in all different shapes and sizes, and it depends on who you are and how you feel about that.

[00:08:17] Laura: Yeah. But also like another thing, I think I was beating myself up, but I like, oh, I've got all this clutter. I shouldn't have this. I'm like, you know, Somehow failing at life or something. But then there was lots of things that I've learned along the way. You know, like living in a flat, I don't. Real kind of bulk storage areas.

[00:08:36] So I have a garden here. It's sort of a shared garden with, um, the other flats. So it's, so I don't really tend to use it much, but like, we don't have a shed or a, or a garage or, you know, I park my car in the streets so I, even just things that I need for my car, I don't have anywhere to put them. Yeah, I don't have an attic because this I am, this is the attic.

[00:08:54] So all the kind of stuff that you want to keep from the past that you're just keeping from, it's like, where do I put it? Don't have anywhere. Like, so my flat's on two floors, so I do have a cupboard under the stairs, but it's really awkward act and I've decluttered it a lot, but actually it's still a bit difficult to navigate.

[00:09:11] But then that's where all my sort of boxes of things from when I was growing up and, and all that kind of stuff is, and actually where else would I put it? Like there isn't anywhere. So I've kind of beaten myself up for having all this stuff. But actually I don't think it was as bad as I thought it was.

[00:09:29] Just be, it is just because I didn't have anywhere sort of in a flat to put it, if that makes sense. I 

[00:09:34] Lesley: think, yeah, I think you're right, Laura. Cause what, what, what people in flats or smaller spaces have to do is you have to use the kinds of storage and the kind of cupboards that the. Like a wardrobe or a chest of drawers or a, um, one of your kitchen cupboards or something like that to keep pots of paint or, you know, de-ice for your car or whatever.

[00:09:52] And everybody else has got the benefit of having a little, even at least a very little shed or a little porch or something that they can put those things in. But you have to make different decisions and that's what makes it hard. So, You're still with us, you're still working through your home, but you feel fairly in control at the moment.

[00:10:08] So have you got any hints and tips about what you have done then to, to utilize these small spaces as well? You talked a little bit about different types of storage, so was that a solution for you? Yeah, definitely. 

[00:10:20] Laura: Just, oh, so many little things that have made a really big difference to me. So one of the first things I remember learning from the membership was, From a q and a question I put in like right at the beginning when I first joined was um, not to use like in my kitchen, not to use kind of jars or circle kind of containers, use square ones because it maximizes space, which just seems so obvious, but that just, that makes so much difference.

[00:10:45] Yeah. Um. Oh, I love your tip about if you can't have a, what you call it, a, is it lamont's unit? When you pull out the cupboard, it's in a corner cupboard and I can't have one of those because, um, uh, another awkward thing about uh, the space that I live in is, um, my. Boiler is sort of behind my corner cupboard, so I can't have a lemons unit because if I get a boiler service, I have to empty that cupboard and the boiler person has to like crawl through the cupboard.

[00:11:14] It's all a bit of a nightmare. But anyway, but then your tip of having two boxes instead, so you've got the box of thing. So put all the things in the box at the back and then a second box. At the front of the cupboard so you can just pull it out and it's kind of like drawers. That was game changer. What else?

[00:11:31] Yeah, just things like, um, I, I, I dunno, I had furniture in a space that just wasn't, like, you'll probably remember recently I got rid of my dressing table in my bedroom, which Yeah, fitted the space, but actually only just, it, it was quite big and it only had four tiny drawers, so I couldn't put much in it.

[00:11:50] But it was taking up quite a lot of room. So, um, I eventually got rid of that and replaced it with a big sort of chest of drawers and now I've, I can fit so much in there. Yeah. Game changer. So it's things like that really. 

[00:12:03] Lesley: Yeah. I think just, just jumping back to a couple of the points that you made there, Laura, to explain about the the Lamont's unit, just in case anybody's not a hundred percent sure of what we're talking about here.

[00:12:12] So quite often in kitchen cupboards where you've got like a corner kitchen cupboard, what you can get is you can get a kind of. Contraption that goes into the cupboard now, it sort of glides into the cupboard and comes out. And so the whole shelf effectively goes, you can pull the whole shelf out into your kitchen.

[00:12:30] Yeah. And those are brilliant when you've got Corner Co and in brand new kitchens they used quite regularly. But obviously not all of us can have a brand new kitchen all the time. So we have to make do with what we've got. And it's so interesting, Laura, that you talk about the fact that your boiler man's got to.

[00:12:43] You know, crawl through your cupboard. Cause we've all got something like that. That means it's not straightforward. And so, you know, we can go on YouTube and can look for tips and people go, this is an amazing thing. And you're like, oh my, my word that does sound amazing, but I can't do that because mm-hmm.

[00:12:58] I've got pipes under my sink. Or I've got to get the bolo amount to crawl through my cupboard or whatever. And so you have to be inventive with your own space. And so that's why decluttering doesn't have a one size fits all. It's absolutely different depending on the space that you're in, but, What you can do with instead of a lemons if you can't have that, is we use collapsible crates or smaller boxes, and you put something in the back of the cupboard, the inaccessible bit of the cupboard, and then another box in front of it.

[00:13:25] And what that means is it's quite easy to pull the whole box out. So quite often, People will put, will put things in there that they don't use very often. You know, things for parties or whatever, but it's so much easier to pull those things out if they're in a box rather than if they're all loose. And so that's what you're, um, talking about, I think, Laura, just to, to clarify 

[00:13:44] Laura: that.

[00:13:44] Yeah. Sorry, I didn't, that's 

[00:13:47] Lesley: exactly what you were talking about. I'm just trying to explain it a little bit better. It's, it's a great thing and I use that all the time. Whether you got to crawl through the boiler cupboard or to get to the boiler or not, it's fantastic if you've got a corner awkward corner cupboard, you know, do containerized to make things simpler to pull out.

[00:14:03] Laura: Yeah. Do you know what, with my boiler, every time I need to get something done to it, um, a service or whatever, I have to. Always been a bit awkward. Cause if, if I book a plumber and it's someone I don't, I haven't met before, if they're, if they're quite a, a large person, it's not, they're not going to fit in the cupboard.

[00:14:19] So

[00:14:23] them first,

[00:14:27] Lesley: it's quite a strange thing that you've got to be able to fit into the bottom of a 

[00:14:32] Laura: job. I'll get somewhere around, and first of all, I'm like, oh, I'm on the third floor and there's no lift. So first of all, they've going to come all the way up the stairs with their tools. And then as soon as they get here and they're like, outta breath, I'm like, oh yeah, no, you've going to crawl through there.

[00:14:45] I've empty covered. So, um, 

[00:14:47] Lesley: so they love, they love you if you want. Exactly. Yeah's not bad enough that you're on the third floor. 

[00:14:53] Laura: Exactly. I know exactly, like Yeah, exactly. And people 

[00:14:57] Lesley: will, yeah. But these are the kinds of things that we all have to deal. We have to find solutions to these kind of things. And that's what's important.

[00:15:04] And I think that, you know, right. You, you talked as well about having, um, dressing rooms. You know, that I do a little bit of design work and things like that, and if we are in smaller spaces, we're definitely looking for. Beds that have got an ottoman base that you can have storage in. I'm definitely looking for bedside tables that have got two drawers in them and not, you know, the ones look beautiful that are just a table with a shelf underneath, but we really need to go for those two drawers.

[00:15:27] We need to find storage wherever we can find it. And we need to make sure that we've got sofas that haven't got huge arms on them that are a little bit more compact to give us our space. So those are all the kinds of things that we need to look at when we're working in. Small spaces, which you've got nailed now, but take a little bit.

[00:15:44] Sorry, go on. Oh, Laura's got another, she's got another. No, just 

[00:15:46] Laura: there. Go. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt there. No, that's alright. I just, I thought of another one. So, with working with, um, COVID, everyone's working from home more and including me. So I had to quickly make myself a space to do that in. And it's quite a small space.

[00:16:01] Um, cause I have two bedrooms here, so I've got a spare bedroom, but it was, Well, it wasn't a room of dune, but it was full of stuff. And it's also where people stay if they stay over. And it's where like, uh, there's, it, it's a small room that's performing at a lot of functions. So I was trying to make that my kind of work from home room as well.

[00:16:18] And so I, I've only got quite a small desk because that's all little fit. Um, but one thing I did, I bought a mouse for the computer where you don't have to move it around with your hand. It's got a. Roller ball that you just move around so you don't have to move the mouse. Right. Cause I don't have much space.

[00:16:34] Like that's, that's, 

[00:16:36] Lesley: that's a really good tip. So you don't have to have like the size of a mouse mat, you can just keep it in one. No, just have 

[00:16:41] Laura: just a mouse. 

[00:16:43] Lesley: Yes. Yeah, and I've got, I've got a client actually who's got a disability and she uses one of those, I think. I think they're good for accessibility as well, aren't they?

[00:16:50] Those? Oh yeah, maybe. Yeah, as well. Yeah, no, definitely. So they're good. Well, you've got hints and tips coming out. You got Laura, but for now, we're going to go to a little break and we're going to come back and talk a little bit more to you in a minute.

[00:17:04] So well back to our podcast with the lovely Laura. She's given us loads of hints and tips so far about how to navigate clutter and organise smaller spaces. So she's already talked about some of the difficulties that she's got with sloping ceilings.

[00:17:18] With having no bulk storage areas, all of these things are sent to Triers, aren't you, Laura? So you said too, you listened to the podcast a little while, you jumped straight into the membership where you've never disappeared from there. You're still here still, 

[00:17:31] Laura: which we know of course. 

[00:17:33] Lesley: But there's, you know, DEC is an ongoing journey and that's why you're still here and there's always, um, improvements that we can make.

[00:17:39] So talk to us a little bit about how you navigated your decluttering journey within the Declutter Hub. So you, did you do courses? You, I mean, I, I know the answer to this, but tell our 

[00:17:49] Laura: lovely listeners. So I signed up to membership in August, 2020. You could join for a month or for a year, and I thought I'm not going to be able to get everything done in a month.

[00:17:58] Um, so decided I'd sign up for a year. That would be my target to get everything done in a year. So that's what I did. I started listening to the live q and ass, the past recordings, um, that were on the membership and also went into the courses. Um, and I was still listening to the podcast as well. And, uh, yeah, so I tended to kind of have them on in the background while I was decluttering and that, and I used that as motivation for myself.

[00:18:23] Even if, even if you, what you were talking about was not what I was working on, I just found. It just really useful to just sort of have it in the background and, um, I didn't sort of tend to sort of sit there and watch I would be doing stuff. Um, yeah, so 

[00:18:35] Lesley: I think I, I think it's, it is, it's an interesting point actually, Laura.

[00:18:39] So because I'm obviously the people are listening today. Well, listen is a podcast of course. And so a lot of people. Say, well, how is it different? And what, you know, do you need to sit and watch? You know? So what would you say is the difference between, so you've talked about the fact that you listen to both of them.

[00:18:54] Mm-hmm. So what would you say is the difference between the podcast and the course? 

[00:19:00] Laura: The courses are very, very specific. Um, and I love that you really, really drill down into all sorts of detail about all sorts of little things that everybody owns that you don't, you might not sort of think about. But the, you know, just a random example I'm thinking of is like batteries.

[00:19:17] I organise my batteries and that's just. Made my life better because I can just, if I need a battery, I'll just go and get one and I know it's, I know it's got the right amount of charge in it. I know I've got, I know what I've got. I know where everything is. 

[00:19:30] Lesley: You know Ingrid's, infamous battery charger. She loves a battery charger.

[00:19:33] Does ing? Oh yeah. Yeah. I've bought one. She waxes a lyrical about a battery charger. Yeah. No one can be in our membership without a battery charger basically. No, that's didn't have one before. Yeah, exactly. She convinced you to get one? No, they are great. Yeah, I 

[00:19:48] Laura: love, I love the podcast because you cover all sorts of different topics there as well.

[00:19:52] Um, and you have lots of interesting guests. Don't necessarily mean me there, but you know, people with expertise. No, you're 

[00:19:58] Lesley: up there. You're up there as an interesting guest with the rest of them, Laura. 

[00:20:01] Laura: Oh, I dunno. Well, I'm just a, just a lonely member. But, um, people with people with all sorts of expertise and things that really gets me thinking about things I hadn't thought of before.

[00:20:11] And so that's great. But then if you, in the membership, you get very specific. Expert knowledge on very specific topics. So if you, if you know, like I still need to. Do a lot with my paperwork. I have done a little bit, it's, it's all kind of organised and I know everything is, but there's too much. I can get rid of a lot of it and I just haven't sort of embarked on that yet.

[00:20:32] But I know there's a really detailed paperwork course in the membership. I've listened to bits of it and it's really useful. I've learned about some of the things that I can get rid of that I didn't realize I could get rid of and um, so there's a lot of practical tips as well. And then, Um, I love that uh, you and Ingrid sort of have slightly different interests as well.

[00:20:51] I think like you are very kind of into sort of the psychology of it all and, um, helping people with their mindset and that's been really big for me. And then, um, Ingrid, um, is very practical and thinking about housekeeping and all that sort of thing, which is really important as well. And so all of that comes across in the courses and uh, yeah, that's been really useful for me.

[00:21:10] Lesley: Yeah, I think, I think, you know, for me the difference between the podcast and the courses is just that the podcasts are kind of. Random if, if we want to call that. So they're quite random. So we throw kitchens at you one week and a bit of mindset the next week and so on. All really useful information of course.

[00:21:28] But it doesn't take you on a journey really. It doesn't take you on that specific go from this place to this place, to this place, which is what we all struggle with. And the whole idea of it really is that we go on a, on a journey where we can actually make. Sustainable progress rather than flit around from one place to another, which is what people typically do on a decluttering journey and why they've struggled in the past.

[00:21:48] And, and as you say, Laura, the nice thing is you can just listen. You don't have to watch. And so you can listen to those while you work. I know loads of our podcast listeners do that, and of course a lot of our members do that as well, which is really useful. So let's talk about you now and how, and wellbeing.

[00:22:04] You talked a little bit about mindset. You talked about the fact that I'm the. Mindset person, and we're both, I mean, I'm practical too, and housekeeping. Yeah. I wasn't saying you're unless is a psychological one and English is the practical one, which is true for the most part. But yeah, I'm generalizing, but yeah, so I know exactly.

[00:22:21] No, exactly right. But I'm like the emotionally led one, so I'm really. Really interested in how this has affected your wellbeing. Obviously it was during lockdown, you know, you do work on your own and so there was a community element to that as well, which is very important to you. I know to everybody, to all of us in lockdown.

[00:22:37] We all needed that at that community, didn't we? But how has your newly decluttered home had an impact on your wellbeing? 

[00:22:45] Laura: Um, oh, massively. Well, in lots of ways really. Um, so I think I just feel a lot more clearheaded, because I'm. I know where everything is. I know, you know, I wake up in the morning and my bedroom is just nice and clear and, and, and, you know, if I'm leaving the house, I'm not trying to trip over things to get to the door, and, and it just makes everything a lot less stressful.

[00:23:09] Than it, than it needs to be. And you know, even just getting ready for things like if I'm going away on holiday or even just going out for the day or something, it's just a lot easier and less stressful. So there's that. And then also, um, I think it's, it's, I mean, it's made my life better really. It's, it's been like, I've been quite interested in, um, doing things for personal growth and, um, Decluttering had beca actually sort of became part of that for me.

[00:23:37] I, you know, right at the beginning, I, I would listen to, to you and Ingrid talking about, oh, you know, you just, you need to build up your decluttering muscle and you need to, um, it's that mindset change and then, and then things become a lot easier. And I, and I, I was listening to that thinking like, yeah, I get that.

[00:23:52] Obviously you have to do those things. But I was like, but for me, that's happen cause build up a decluttering muscle. I've never been good at that sort of thing. Um, never been good at throwing things away and, uh, but no, you were right. Like. As I was kind of doing the courses and listening to all your content, I did really grow a decluttering muscle, which I didn't expect.

[00:24:12] So there's kind of, um, I felt like I'd sort of grown as a person as well, if I can say that. And now I can look at things and think, yeah, that, that, that doesn't serve a purpose. I can get rid of that. Uh, whereas before I'd have felt guilty about all sorts of things. Like I'd have got sentimental about it, which could literally probably have been about almost anything I'd be worrying about.

[00:24:33] Sustainability, which I do still worry about that. I see things a bit differently now, but now I kind of have that mindset change, which I didn't expect to happen, but it has. And um, so that's made my life better as well, really. I think. 

[00:24:46] Lesley: I think you're right. I think it's really interesting actually, Laura.

[00:24:48] Cause I think it takes some people while to, even though a lot of people, you know, invest in a decry program or a dec, whatever you want to call it, decry mindset change or whatever. It takes a while for you to get to that point where you can completely embrace it. It's not something where you're just going to go, okay, today I am going to be a great declutter and that's what I'm going to do and I'm just going to allow myself to do everything that these people are telling me.

[00:25:14] It takes a while because these are habits that have been formed over decades in some, in some instances, and it's not that easy to go all in at first. You are going to be be a little bit reluctant, I think when it comes to decluttering by its nature. You are going to think that Ingrid and I are going to wrestle your precious things away from you.

[00:25:31] Do you know what I mean? So there's a little bit of resistance in there. So it takes a while to kind of break that down a little bit, and that's why everybody needs to go at their own pace and on their own journey in their own way. But that, that's another 

[00:25:42] Laura: good thing about the membership is that if you are worried about a, a professional organiser coming into your home and you're worried of what they're going to say about this or that, or they're going to try and make you do something you don't want to do, whatever, like.

[00:25:55] In the membership because no one is coming into your home physically. It's still if, if you're worried about that, you don't, well, you don't have to worry about that with the membership because you're just, it's all you. You're the one doing all the work and it's all on your terms. You can listen whenever you want.

[00:26:09] You can turn it off whenever you want. So I think that's another be benefit of the membership actually. 

[00:26:14] Lesley: Yeah, definitely. I think it is that you can go on your own journey. It's definitely for, for people who want to, to learn, it gives you a, it gives you a deeper change in mindset for sure than having someone in your home.

[00:26:25] And I, I think the interesting thing is as well as within, within the membership, if people ask questions or if they say, this is what I'm doing today, then we can guide people down a different path. Sometimes if we feel that perhaps it's too early for them to be tackling that particular thing, or I.

[00:26:41] There's no wrong way of doing it, but if we think there's a better way that perhaps would be easier and more sort of sustainable long term, we can guide people down that path if people share that information with us, if we can do deep dives and stuff like that. Mm-hmm. So you still get that one-to-one support, don't you?

[00:26:56] That you might get your home, but it's done in a sort of different way and it's. Very reli on people sharing. Not everybody needs to share, but it's going to be a different journey. So, um, you talked a little bit there, Laura, about sustainability and that's been a thread that's run through your de journey.

[00:27:11] The fact that sustainability, giving things to the right places and donating things to people that really need things has been a big part of your journey. So tell us a little bit about how that's helps and sometimes hindered you in your declutter in progress. Yeah, sure. 

[00:27:25] Laura: Well, I think it was certainly a bit of a barrier for me at the beginning and because I didn't want to, I didn't want to put things into landfill, and I still don't, you know, that still stands.

[00:27:35] It's, it's a difficult thing that you kind of have to work, work your way through. But I think as long as I, I, I guess I don't feel as guilty now about if there's something that absolutely cannot have another home somewhere else, it really is. Like it's had it, you know? Then I can accept now that whatever object that was, Has had its useful life and that was all it was sort of planned to be for X number of years and it's at the end now and that's then where it needs to go.

[00:28:05] But I think it's important to just remember there's something called the waste hierarchy, which people can Google if they wanted to, but it's basically kind of, because I think there's a lot of misconceptions around, um, people think like, oh, you know, I can just recycle it, so it's fine. But actually recycling's quite low, low down on the hierarchy.

[00:28:22] So I suppose, so the worst thing. Environmentally is kind of throwing things away into landfill, um, or to be incinerated. The next one up is recycling, which is, it's better don't, it's better than landfill, obviously, but there are, there's still better things above it. So above recycling, you've got reusing things or giving things away.

[00:28:43] Um, so you know, if it's ch charity shops or wherever that may be, uh, there might be. I don't know where you, where you might give things away to where it's not going to become a problem for someone else. So reusing, I suppose, and then at the top would be kind of just, um, not using things in the first place or not buying them in the first place.

[00:29:01] Lesley: Yeah. So non Yeah, non, yeah. Buy and, and that's really important as well, isn't it as well? So I think yeah, heavy, heavy spending period that in the moments in December. 

[00:29:10] Laura: Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I think for me it was kind of, Realizing maybe this is just a one thing, then away won't be buying things anymore.

[00:29:20] Shop. Yeah, I, I guess that's how I've kind of made my peace with it. Um, I don't, I don't actually put much into landfill and I always try and find the best home for things. Um, but sometimes it's unavoidable and 

[00:29:35] Lesley: it's very much about, you know, you know, progress not perfection here, isn't it? Yeah. To mean, and the important things are you're not buying things in the first place.

[00:29:42] Mm-hmm. And that you are going through that process of thinking about the waste hierarchy Yeah. Before that into something going to landfill and understanding that. I think, I think, I think it is that. Challenge to yourself as well about sustainability? Um, you know, it is, and we're, we're into sustainability.

[00:29:57] We have a donation directory in the membership where we with loads of different unusual donation places as well. So that's very important to us. And so I think that that's key. And so I know that you're a big earlier fan we talked about earlier, quite a lot. So you, um, and it, it's just a really easy way of giving things to people who want them, isn't it, Laura?

[00:30:17] I dunno whether, I still dunno whether Lio is all over the world or not. Every time we mention Lio, I'm like, is it just an new empire or is it anywhere else? But basically it's an app and there will undoubtedly be an equivalent app in the country that you are in as well. But here it's called lio, just Google lio, equivalent in Australia or Canada or wherever you are.

[00:30:34] And I'm sure you will find it. And what that means is you post something for free and somebody says, I'd really like that. And then they come and pick it up and Bob's your uncle. It's gone to someone who really wants it. It's so important to have that feeling that you are giving things. To the right places.

[00:30:48] Laura: Yeah. And people are really grateful as well. Um, and I think, like I use Freecycle as well and that's also really good, but I think with eo, because it's so, it's such a well-designed app for some reason, I think that means you're less likely to get no shows and time wasters and things like people seem to take it a bit more seriously.

[00:31:07] Um, and it's also seems to be geared more towards small things. So, I mean, you could give away, you know, a a three piece suite if you wanted to on there, but it's, it tends to be more like, oh, I've got too many staplers. I'll put a stapler on EO and someone will. 

[00:31:23] Lesley: Exactly. And you wouldn't want to give that to a charity shop cause you'd think that was a bit daft.

[00:31:27] You know, cause where, where is that going to sit? Sit in the charity shop, you know, stapler, I'm sure they probably would be able to use it depending on the charity shop, but it's something that can really easily it. Somebody's like, perfect. I was going to buy a stapler tomorrow, now I don't need to. So it's absolutely brilliant from that, from that perspective.

[00:31:42] And so if that's not something that you've heard about, do go and seek out oleo or something equivalents because it really does. It takes the barriers away. So certain giveaway sites have barriers, you know, you've got to arrange things, haven't you? And I don't know, you are worried about security and safety and you've got like this star systems, they take a lot of the barriers away.

[00:32:06] Like you say, it's a very well designed up app. It's very well thought through. Yes. So Laura, so you're still with the dec tub at the moment. I hope you're there forever. Of course. Um, but what's next step on your decluttering journey? 

[00:32:18] Laura: Um, yeah, well, I, I just said I, I sort of signed up for a year in 2020, um, but I kind of brushed over the fact that I'm still here.

[00:32:27] But, um, but, um, but yeah, so I've renewed it. Well, I got to the end of the year and, and there was still, I, I actually had done most of what I set out for and I, um, and I was really pleased with that. But yeah, there's still a couple of categories that I, well, there was still a few things that I still wanted to do.

[00:32:43] Um, and also I just really liked it in the membership, so I was like, I'll stay another year. And then I just recently renewed again cause I was like, I ridiculous.

[00:32:58] Even though I still have decluttering to do, I mentioned I still, um, uh, need to work on my paperwork. Clothes I haven't really done yet. Those are the two main things. Oh. And, um, digital, which, um, is a bit of a nightmare to be honest. So that is a project in itself. But yeah, I couldn't, I can't leave that know.

[00:33:15] We 

[00:33:15] Lesley: don't need to leave. I think, I think the thing is as well, there's new content going in there all the time. So we, we, we, we, we are, you know, we have a full house worth of stuff now, but we are adding things like photographs and all that kind of stuff. There's always new content coming, so, um, so I think there's, there's always a reason to be there, Laura.

[00:33:32] Always a reason to be there. Yeah. So, Is there anything else? I know there's something, I know there's somebody that you wanted to say hello to Laura, isn't there? Yeah, because my sister 

[00:33:40] Laura: Emma, uh, listens to your podcast every Saturday morning while, while she does her weekly clean. Uh, so wanted to say hello to Emma and uh, perhaps I should say hello to George as well.

[00:33:50] He's my nephew. And then also maybe his sister, Emily, because otherwise she's left out. But George and Emma both came to the clean and tidy. Home show. Yeah. They're so cute. George is so cute. 

[00:34:01] Lesley: He's very cute. And Emma's another fan as well. No, that's lovely. This, this will be her, might be her pre-Christmas clean.

[00:34:09] This might be her. Yeah, I've only got a week to go before Christmas, and so it might be her pre-Christmas clean. So good luck with that, Emma. And thank you so much for listening, Emma. So Laura, I think we have come to the end of our podcast. Thank you so much for being here and sharing your journey.

[00:34:23] There's loads of gems in there. You know, talking about small spaces, the fact that we have to compromise the fact that we have to look at things in a different way. We've talked about different people's level of tolerance as well. We've talked about sustainability. There's so much good stuff in there. So I want to thank you so much.

[00:34:39] Thank you so much for being a fantastic, Laura is a fantastic Decla member because she's always super helpful to other people. Really gets stuck in with the community. Turns up to loads of. Stuff. So, so we love Laura as a member. So thank you so much, Laura being so supportive of the Delau Hub as well, and coming to see us at the Ideal Home Show and the Clean and tidy home show.

[00:34:57] It does not go unnoticed. We really, really enjoy your company. Yeah, Laura actually fixed, uh, when we had a problem with our presentation when we at the Ideal Home Show, and Laura bought a laptop and fixed it all for us, so she's got technical skills as well. So thank you so much, Laura, for being here. Um, I just want to talk about what's coming up next week, so next week.

[00:35:17] Nearly the end of the year, and we are going to be talking through some of our favorite podcasts of 2022. So we're going to try and decide what our favorites are between us. So do tune in and listen and I'm sure there'll be loads of gems in there. We won't just say, oh, this one and this one. We will talk about some of the contents.

[00:35:34] There's some gems for you to take into the Christmas period if you celebrate Christmas. That is so Thank you so much, Laura. No thank 

[00:35:41] Laura: you. And, uh, thank you for your kind words. Oh, 

[00:35:44] Lesley: you're welcome. So thank you all so much for listening, and we'll see you all next week.
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