Episode 212 – Frugality with frugal friends Jen and Jill

Are you struggling to know how you're going to navigate the Cost of Living Crisis? Well, today we have two fantastic guests who are going to help. Jen and Jill help people become better stewards of their money, time, space, and natural resources.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Ingrid: Are you struggling to know how you're going to navigate the cost of living crisis? Well, today we've got two fantastic guests who are going to help Jen and Jill help people become better stewards of their money, time, space, and natural resources.

[00:00:17] Now, I would love to introduce to you Jen Smith and Jill Sirianni, the co-hosts of the Frugal Friends podcast. They are changing the way the world thinks about frugality, and I absolutely love it that we're going to talk about Frug being frugal and saving money in this podcast because as most of you know, I love being careful with what comes into my home and what I spend my money on.

[00:00:41] I think it must be my Dutch genes or something. So this podcast is right up my alley. So welcome Jen and Jill. Thank you so much for being here. 

[00:00:51] Jill: What a lovely introduction. Ingrid. Thanks for having us. 

[00:00:54] Jen: Yeah, I love so much for having us. 

[00:00:56] Ingrid: Oh, thank you. So I love being frugal. I, I, honestly, I do, I, I dunno if it's because I'm Dutch or because how my mom and dad were, or I don't know what it is, but I just always think.

[00:01:07] Do I really spend, want to spend my money on this? Do I want to give? And besides giving up the space and time and energy and all of that, but it's like this is my hard earned money. Do I want to actually really have this? So I'm so glad we're talking about money because it's almost. Nobody talks about it, but we all have to deal with 

[00:01:27] Jill: it.

[00:01:27] Right? Yeah. There and there's so much overlap I think with what you often talk about, Ingrid, on your podcast and frugality, when we are focusing and attentive to the things that are in our home, what we are, then bringing further into our home, it, it definitely is going to intersect with. Money, finances, purchasing decisions, savings decisions.

[00:01:54] So there can be quite a lot of crossover and congruence with, with this. So it doesn't surprise me that some of the things that are coming out of your mouth are quite intentional and thought about and and thorough with what, what do I want to do with this? And, and that's a big foundational piece I think when we talk about frugality.

[00:02:13] Ingrid: I am, honestly, I was so super excited when I reached out to you guys and I was like, can you just come onto the podcast? We'd love to, I want to do this. And you were like, yes. I was like, oh yes, we can finally talk about money. Because it is a thing, isn't it? People just don't talk about money. 

[00:02:30] Jen: Yeah, it is. It has a lot of shame and guilt built around it.

[00:02:34] 'cause I think a lot of people believe managing money means deprivation. And so we all want to live a life that we love. And so we've just been conditioned to believe that that costs a certain amount of money. And while it does involve money, um, we. Tend to find that the things that we value most and the things we care about most are the things that money can't buy.

[00:02:59] Yeah. And while shopping may, uh, give a temporary dopamine hit, it's not the actual thing that you're looking for. Yeah. Um, and so we consume and consume and we bring things into our homes and our offices and our cars, um, for these temporary dopamine hits. And we're just encouraging people to. Focus on what's longer lasting.

[00:03:22] Ingrid: Yeah. Well, we're going to talk, I've got loads of questions for you. We're going to definitely go deep on that later in this podcast. And we're definitely also going to talk about later how you met and how this all started and your 78,000 pound debt and how you paid it off and all of these things. But let's start at the beginning.

[00:03:40] What is frugality, because it sounds quite serious to me being, you know, frugality. It's, it's who, it's quite a word, isn't it? So let's start there. 

[00:03:51] Jill: Yeah, we love to chat about our definitions of frugality and it has evolved over time. Mm-hmm. I think we've landed in a really great, great place at this point, but really it is being a good steward of all of our resources, not just money.

[00:04:08] It certainly includes money, but our natural resources time. Energy, relational capacities and our finances being intentional about the way that we engage with everything that we have available to us is our definition of frugality. 

[00:04:27] Ingrid: And is that also the four pillars that you talk about a lot as well? Uh, within, within frugality a time, the resources.

[00:04:35] The money, et cetera. Yeah. Or is the four pillar something 

[00:04:38] Jen: else? Yeah, so our money, our time, our physical space and then our, our kind of our energy. So that would be like schedule and all the time pieces that aren't, are outside of our control or mental energy, stuff like that. But I mean, your listeners will love the physical space part 'cause we're all about being good stewards of.

[00:04:59] Of your physical space. So like not having too much, but also not having nothing. Having your space be filled with the things that you love. Mm-hmm. Um, but being really conscious of what those things are. Yeah. 

[00:05:11] Ingrid: It's interesting because I see a lot of everything you said. I'm like, we talk, listening, I talk all the time about decluttering and organising, and people think we talk about stuff the whole time, but we also talk about.

[00:05:25] Your to-do lists and your calendar and your time and the people in your lives and the digital things on your phone. And it's so much more than just stuff, isn't it? Being more decluttered and organised, and I think there's so many overlaps. You look at it from a different point of view, but I think the overlaps definitely are there without a schedule for doubt.

[00:05:47] Jill: Yeah. They, they all impact one another. If we are feeling maxed out in our schedule or our energy, that's going to affect the decisions that we wake make with our money. Mm-hmm. Or how we engage with our space or the people around us. And a similar thing with every. Other aspect. If, if our physical space is super cluttered, then that's going to impact how we engage in our energies and the people around us and how we utilize our time.

[00:06:16] Whether, whether in beneficial ways or non-beneficial ways. So I think it can be really helpful when we look at this from a holistic perspective of how is each of these categories. Impacting one another. How can I make wise, intentional, good stewarding decisions so that I can experience the actual life that I say I want to live?

[00:06:39] Not just the life that other people are living, or I'm told I should be living, but what do I actually want with these pillars of, of my personhood? 

[00:06:48] Ingrid: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I think we get influenced a lot by what we see. Of course. Uh, uh, in social media, on the television, in magazines. I think it used to be, before that it was always our neighbors.

[00:06:59] What are the neighbors doing? Oh, they have a new car. We need to have a new car too. Or a garage door or an extension or, but now it's of course all the social media that, that we can bombarded with. Just buy this and you feel better this, buy this and you'll look better. And all of those things and it's, it's hard to find out then.

[00:07:17] For yourself, but what is it that I actually want? 

[00:07:21] Jen: Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah. And now instead of just having like two or three neighbors, you have hundreds of neighbors to compare yourself to, and it is really difficult to discern, okay, what are the things that I want and what are the things that I'm being told?

[00:07:38] To want because a lot of the things out there are great and nobody's telling us what to want maliciously. We just have to be like intentional about sitting down with ourselves and checking in with ourselves to make sure that our actions and our purchases, our transactions are on the path that, that we desire them to be on.

[00:08:01] Um, and not things that are just happening by chance or by circumstance, by season, by whatever. 

[00:08:08] Ingrid: Yes, I completely hear what you're saying. So you mentioned about discovering your core values. What do you mean by 

[00:08:15] Jen: that? So we have, um, we have like a list of core values and, and we have the most important ones to us and we have peripheral ones.

[00:08:26] And so these are the things that kind of stay true to you throughout your life. They can change from how you prioritize them, but most of the time you can look back to your childhood and kind of see the things that made you really proud or the things that made you really happy, the things that made you really.

[00:08:45] Offended or upset that maybe other people thought were unreasonable. And you can start to get a picture of what some of your core values are, maybe the things that are super important to you that, that other people don't understand as much, probably because they just have a different core value and you, you're like, how can this not be so important to you?

[00:09:06] Um, that's probably indicative that it's a core value to you, so, Once we start to understand what makes us us and what makes the people we love most around us tick as well, and what they don't understand about us, we can start to, um, create spending habits that align more with that. Now, not every purchase you make has to be aligned with your, with your, like, Internal core values.

[00:09:37] Like, I love buying lattes out. Like I just love going to the coffee shop. I love the feel of, you know, holding that cup and being outside of my house and, and I, coffee's not like a core value of mine, though some might argue it. It is. But I've decided that it's not, but I still really value that. So there's not, there doesn't have to be a hundred percent alignment with your core values and what you spend money on, but core values can help you kind of discern some of these more habitual purchases.

[00:10:10] So maybe going to happy hour with your, with your coworkers. Every Friday is just something, uh, a habit you have and, and you're like, you know what? I. I really love community. Community is a core value of mine. That's why I go out. I love spending time with people, but not as much the bar scene. So how can I get the part of my core value that I really want and get out this part that costs me money that I don't really care about?

[00:10:38] Alternatively, you could actually love. Happy hours, and that's totally fine, but it does help you kind of pick apart different spending habits to make sure you're getting a hundred percent of what you value instead of just 50 or 60%. And that can help you save money. 

[00:10:58] Ingrid: Right. Have you got some other, uh, examples, maybe Jill, to explain this a little bit more?

[00:11:04] Jill: Yeah, I think as we consider core values, it's important to highlight that we all, in general, humans will value faith, family, friends, fulfilling work. So we don't need to spend time listing those out. Although they are important. We want to be able to make room in the budget to spend around those things. But beyond those four things to consider, What, what do I value?

[00:11:31] So for me, some of my core values are beauty, community, justice, generosity, and knowing this about myself. Having spent some time, and this, this is not an instantaneous discovery. It does take time looking through our spending habits, our relational habits, being curious with ourselves. And considering what are my core values?

[00:11:56] So those are the four that I have landed on. And having that as a lens when I am making a purchase or going back through my spending for the past few weeks can help me to have my sights on Are, is my spending aligning with this? And. One of the things for me is travel. So travel's really important to me.

[00:12:17] I will make room in my budget for that. It's not as important to Jen, but we can create space for one another. There is freedom in this frugal journey and personal finance journey, so, mm-hmm. That aligns with beauty and community in a lot of ways. My travels are going to see other places that I find beautiful going on hikes in new national parks.

[00:12:41] Or visiting family and friends so that it, it, it aligns with that. But what I don't value is spending money on new clothing, luxury brands, cars, you name it, it, it's not actually valuable to me. So I will cut tenaciously on those things. I don't think I've bought a, a clothing item in months, but yet I will put money aside to travel so it.

[00:13:08] It really can help us to make those more informed decisions and guilt-free, shame-free decisions when we know not only do I have the money for this, but I've done a lot of work behind knowing that I feel good about making this decision because it's aligned with what I say I 

[00:13:25] Ingrid: value. What you say really resonates with me, Jill, because I'm the same.

[00:13:29] I love traveling too. Traveling, going to the theater, going to music gigs, um, singing, all of those things that really make me happy. And I've got a lot of budget for those kinds of things. Of course, my family is in the Netherlands, so we have to travel there. Well want to travel there on a very regular basis, so it means other things you can't do.

[00:13:50] And, but that's the choice that I make. And I'm like you, although I think. For me, the clothing and the cars are not so important, but the traveling is, so I will make sure that a lot of, um, the budget goes to that and, and, and thankfully I'm quite aligned with my husband on that as well, so that, that helps.

[00:14:09] That helps a lot. I think I. Mm-hmm. 

[00:14:11] Jill: Yeah. That alignment is, is important. Not everyone finds themselves there, but there are things we can do to work towards recognizing and valuing one another's values. Mm-hmm. And making space for that. 

[00:14:24] Ingrid: Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I think a lot of people who hear the word frugal think, oh my gosh, this, this, this, this is it.

[00:14:32] I'm, I can't spend any more pennies. I can't do anything. How can we make sure that people don't feel. Kind of, I have to do everything cheap now and I feel deprived. I can't do the things that I want to do. How do we change that? That kind of, that mindset and that habit. 

[00:14:49] Jen: Well, first is listening to Frugal Friends Podcast every week because that is our primary goal in releasing every show, is to change that idea about frugality, because for so long, frugality has been seen as this race to the bottom.

[00:15:04] Yeah, how little can I spend, and for how long? And who cares why? Normally it's because of a scarcity mindset. Yeah. Because we don't think we have enough to be able to live well and if we feel guilty when we spend the money. Um, and that's not a sustainable lifestyle, so we nickel and dime ourselves. It's like death by a thousand cuts with these small little trinket things that we buy.

[00:15:29] Because we're, we feel guilty buying bigger, more expensive things, um, that could be really useful and valuable to us. So I think changing the mindset, um, from being frugality is about not spending to frugality is about spending with intention. Mm-hmm. Frugality is about spending on what I want. Learning how to find that, learning how to maintain it.

[00:15:56] Because it's a, it's a journey. You don't reach frugality and, and then you're just frugal. Like then you just know how to spend. Like it's, that's, that doesn't happen. Um, we change our seasons, change our spending habits get disrupted. It's just adopting this mindset of, um, I'm going to spend without guilt on what I value, and I am going to say no to the things that are outside that as much as possible.

[00:16:24] Ingrid: You know what? I was just thinking this is exactly exactly what we say as well. You can't declutter your house and be done. People, you, A lot of people come into our world, they're like, okay, Ingrid, Leslie, I want to declutter my house. I want to do it once and then I'm done. And we're like, sorry. You're going to have to be doing this life for the rest of your life.

[00:16:43] And they're like, what? Mm-hmm. I'm like, but trust us. The first time is the hardest. The first time when you go through your house, in your rooms, in your areas, in your cupboards is the hardest. Slowly but surely, you build up that decluttering muscle. You build up that. Confidence in yourself that you're making good decisions and the next time around it's much easier and you find out more and more what's important for you and what is not.

[00:17:10] And a lot of people always say, well, what am I going to throw away? And Leslie and I are far more. No, you need to decide what you want to keep, what's important enough for you to have in your house that makes you happy. And I, I hear you say exactly the same thing. It's not about spending less and less and less, it's actually finding out.

[00:17:30] What is important enough to stay in the budget and spend better and spend wiser and buy better quality stuff so it lasts longer, which is also better for the planet Then as well, ob, obviously. 

[00:17:43] Jill: You got it. Ingrid. 

[00:17:44] Jen: That's great summary. 

[00:17:46] Jill: You got it. Well done. You're a frugal friend. 

[00:17:49] Jen: Yes, 

[00:17:49] Ingrid: I'm a frugal friend now, but I think it's really, I think a lot of people, it's exactly what you say, it's that scarcity mindset.

[00:17:58] That makes them think I need to buy more and more and more because I might not have it again. Well, we actually try to, you try to turn it around with the frugal mindset, we try to turn it around with the Declotting mindset. It's actually okay to declutter some items for your house. If that means you can actually find the stuff you love and need and use instead of having to buy it over and over again because your house is so full that you can't find all the things in the first place.

[00:18:22] Jill: Mm-hmm. Yeah, and there needs to be maintenance like you're describing. We're not static individuals. Life is going to keep going and there's going to be new things that we need to spend on, want to spend on. Yeah. New things that are going to come into the house need to go out of the house, but we can grow that muscle and become better and better and actually see greater and greater alignment with our values and and experience really a fulfillment and a freedom that can come from that.

[00:18:51] Less guilt and shame. Yeah. 

[00:18:53] Ingrid: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. So I would love to know a little bit more about how you met and, because one of the things I, I first saw when I was Googling, and of course I've been looking at your guys and you, what you're doing and how you work. And I've done your, your workbook and I've read your book, what you started with, a 78,000 pound depth.

[00:19:15] That's where it all started, didn't it? 

[00:19:18] Jen: Well, for me, that's where it started. I had $78,000 of student loan debt, um, with my husband's. It was both of our student loan debts and we started as soon as we got married, um, looking to pay it off. So we were doing everything that we could. I really thought I could side hustle my way out of debt.

[00:19:39] I thought I was already cutting costs because I made. $35,000 a year and I lived tight and I bought generic brands. So, but I wasn't paying attention to what I was really spending. Um, so I thought, okay, I'll just like make more money. That's the solution. And two months into that solution, um, I was overworking myself to the point where I got shingles.

[00:20:07] Uh, and so I realized, okay, I, I can't side hustle my way out of this. I need to focus on both the earning and the cutting back. Yeah. So that's when I got interested in frugality. And I wanted it to be oh and done in a way where I didn't have to like deprive myself fully. Um, it was years before I figured out how to do that.

[00:20:31] I'm a very all or nothing person, so I really did go all in and was pretty miserable, um, for the first year. Um, but I met Jill about a year and a half into our journey. Because I had actually met her husband once at a party and never spoke to him again. Um, and this was like eight years prior. Um, but then they were living in an RV at the time and took a road trip and, uh, found themselves in Florida.

[00:21:03] And, uh, I just invited them to hang out with some of our friends and, and. Jill reluctantly accepted, uh, hanging out with strangers on her vacation, and I'm so glad she did because Me too. Um, we all met up and became really fast friends and, um, just kind of blossomed into this. Podcast that I didn't really want to do at first.

[00:21:26] So I reluctantly, um, started the podcast and I'm very glad that I did that. So that's, that's our story. Amazing, amazing. 

[00:21:35] Ingrid: So, Jill, do you also have a background of trying to fr frugal and be, how, how did the connection kind of then go? How did you kind of suddenly found out like, wow, this is a thing, we need to talk about this and do something with this?

[00:21:50] Jill: Absolutely. For me, my background, you know, starts as most of us do in childhood and relationship with money and what's modeled to me, and I was accustomed to never really having much, or at least having the mentality that we don't have much. Of course that carried through and into college. Uh, most college students don't have much money.

[00:22:14] And then that carried into my early career as. A social worker working in the nonprofit world and earning low income, but working a lot of hours. And so there was a necessity to how I needed to live as a result of that. Of course, I could have piled up debt, but I had an awareness that I didn't want, that I, I knew that, okay, there's student loan debt before me and what can I do?

[00:22:41] And that led to a lot of. Creativity, some non-traditional living experiences like living in a motor home to cut living costs. So our, my frugality, while it has shifted a lot, I think began kind of early on, out of necessity, I have learned that a, a frugal lifestyle. Is and can be for anyone. But in the beginning I certainly approached it from that more so scarcity mindset, a a means to an end necessary for my lifestyle and have come to learn.

[00:23:14] No, there's actually a lot more freedom in here and that's, that has a lot to do with Jen and this partnership and. Kind of expanding my mindset to I could earn more. I don't have to remain in this place. There's freedom for me to have the resources that I need to go after the lifestyle that I desire.

[00:23:33] But certainly it was during this time that I was living in a motor home to cut costs. I was. Aimed at earning my master's degree, but I did not want to go into further debt for that. And thankfully was able to out of some of these choices that we made, and that's how we connected kind of these non-traditional choices we were making, but yet still wanting to have friendship and community in the midst.

[00:23:56] Of it. So for Jen being in her debt payoff and my husband and I living in an RV to not go into further debt in our debt payoff journeys really brought that initial connection and friendship and thinking we should talk about this more people should be. Uh, hearing, like you said, there can be so much shame around talking about finances and really wanting to create a space where people can hear themselves and not feel ashamed for not knowing, uh, and not having another jargon filled.

[00:24:28] Financial podcast, but true to real people's experiences. Yeah. And what can be done here? What's the creativity that can be implemented and ultimately a message of freedom in finding what's going to work for you on this journey. 

[00:24:44] Ingrid: I absolutely love it, and I can't wait to talk some more after the break. So let's take a break and we'll be back to talk some more to Jen and Jill.

[00:24:53] Hi everyone. Welcome back. We're I'm chatting to Jen and Jill of the Frugal French Podcast and before the break we have just completely realized how much overlap there is. And I want to actually take that a bit of a step further because when you were talking about.

[00:25:11] Before the break about living in an RV and thinking about the environment, I thought, yes, of course. There's so many connections to minimalism, to sustainability, to simple living decluttering. We, of course, already touched upon I. It is really interesting how they're so connected. I wanted to talk a little bit more about that because thus being frugal also, I mean, I know I think you know the answer, but it doesn't mean you have to be a minimalist, right?

[00:25:37] It doesn't mean you have to suddenly do the environment. If you're not interested, I think you can really pick and choose, right? 

[00:25:45] Jill: Absolutely. And that's that freedom piece that we're talking about. To discover what your values are, what you want to spend on, what's important to you and the lifestyle that you want to leave.

[00:25:57] We can, we can find ourselves anywhere on that spectrum. There is intersection and overlap between frugality and simple living and minimalism and environmental sustainability, but yet there's also a way to engage in those. Things that aren't frugal, that aren't being good stewards of our time, energy, resources, and attention.

[00:26:21] So it's, they can be complimentary, but there, there's certainly a way to engage in, you know, being quote unquote environmentally friendly. And spending insanely and not intentionally and spending impulsively or even engaging with and purchasing products that are more greenwashed and not actually environmentally friendly.

[00:26:45] They're just marketed to be so. So it still does require a good deal of. Intentionality and mindfulness and awareness. But absolutely when, when we find that right intersection that works for us, there's a lot of pieces that can blend well with these other aspects that we might be aimed at. 

[00:27:06] Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

[00:27:08] So Jen, um, coming back to you paid off your debt and all of that, were you the one who kind of did the no spend challenge and kind of challenged yourself not to spend any money at all? I mean, I've read your, I've read your workbook, I've read your, um, your book and everything. How does doing a Noppen cha, it's a bit of like a wake up call, like mm-hmm.

[00:27:29] Doing a seven day or maybe a 30 day. What do you advise to do when, if people are still listening now and thinking, okay, yeah, I need to do some work on this, uh, this no. Spend challenge. Okay. Tell me more about this. How does this work? 

[00:27:43] Jen: Yeah, so it is kind of like a wake up call. So when I was. Trying to figure out what I want to spend money on and what I don't want to spend money on.

[00:27:53] That was really hard when I had so many opportunities to spend throughout the day. I just had a lot of decision fatigue and I, I couldn't figure out in real time. So I came up. With the solution to just do a 30 day no spend challenge where I don't spend on anything discretionary. So that way I can get a grasp on what are the habits, the spending habits I have.

[00:28:17] So what am I spending money on that I don't even realize I'm spending on? Mm-hmm. What are the things that sometimes I get, um, encouraged to spend on that I may not care about? So what are the things where I'm getting invited out to something or I'm maybe getting like, kind of unintentionally pressured to, to spend money on something?

[00:28:37] And then what are the things that I really, really miss? Like throughout the whole time? What are the things I really miss that I really wanted to spend money on? And those are the things that I really value. And I can spend money on those things without guilt. 'cause I know those are the things I don't want to live without.

[00:28:54] And all the rest of the things. I can say no to more easily because I know I'm not missing them and I know why I'm not missing them. So it just gives you time and space to pause and think about your spending. A no spend challenge is not a way of life. It's just a time to pause your regular spending and give yourself space to think about changing your ways.

[00:29:22] Ingrid: Now, when you start with a no spend challenge, do you. Suggest people do a 30 day or are you like, no, let's just do a week first and see how it goes. What's the best way to get, get cracking with this? 

[00:29:35] Jen: So I think seven days is a great way to start there. You have anything that's pretty much going to happen to you will happen either on a weekend or a weekday.

[00:29:44] You get like a variety of days to, to really assess. Um, 30 days I think is ideal because. Some things only happen once or twice a month, and you can kind of get those in there as well. Mm-hmm. Uh, I definitely don't recommend more than 30 days, though I know some people have, and it's, you know, life changing for them.

[00:30:03] I don't think it's necessary. I think it's just vanity at that point, but, um, 30 days and know that you'll, like, you'll never do it perfectly. Yeah. Um, I've, I've never done. I've, I'm like not a super, well, I don't do no spend challenges anymore, but even, but when I did, like I never did it perfectly. Yeah. I always had a mess up here, there, but I always said, okay.

[00:30:24] This is, you know, I forgot, I wasn't even thinking about spending this money and I accidentally spent it. Like, what does that say? Yeah. Um, how can I create a barrier to this moving forward? Mm-hmm. So it gives you the opportunity to learn that, and then you can just kind of think about that and go forward.

[00:30:41] Um, or if it's something that you really value and you really have been wanting for, for weeks or whatever. Then you can say, okay, this is something I wanted for a while, and moving forward, like I'm going to let myself spend on this. 

[00:30:57] Ingrid: So do you think then that. A budget is crucial for a noppen challenge, or is it more you need your no spend challenge, gives you insight into what you spend money on.

[00:31:10] So then the next step is to actually look at the budget, because I'm, I'm, I'm assuming, in a no spend challenge, you, you still got to pay your mortgage and your water and your gas and your electricity and, and, and you need to eat, right? Mm-hmm. But I think it's all of that. Other, spending a coffee here. Uh, the, we are out with the kids.

[00:31:28] Mom, can I have this? Can we do an ice cream? Can we, all of the things that you didn't, don't even think about because now we tap everything with our card, don't we? We just put our num our card on the thing and it gets paid. We don't have that cash anymore in our. Wallets that we can actually see, oh, it's gone.

[00:31:46] I think that's why a lot of children, um, probably struggle as well with money because they just ne we, we used to get it out of the wall, but no. They were like, where's this money coming from? Well, I actually had to really work really hard for this. Mm-hmm. But it just comes out of a wall. And now we don't even do that anymore because cash is here.

[00:32:03] It's disappearing. I mean, everybody, you can tap your way through, through paying everything. 

[00:32:10] Jen: Yeah, it does create, um, those, those barriers too. And I think it is more like you still have to look at your transactions, like nobody's impulse spending on gas for their car or lights in their house. That's not.

[00:32:25] What we're thinking about. Right? Um, and even changes on those, those save you a dollar here, $2 there. Those are not really, we care about them, but they are not significant. They're not where you want to start. You want to start with the big things. Um, so f finding what that big thing is, and a no spend challenge is great for helping you find like, okay, what's the.

[00:32:50] Biggest spending issue I have. Mm-hmm. So that you can just focus on that one. Yeah. Because when you are making small changes, those are sustainable changes. Yeah. 

[00:33:00] Ingrid: Yeah. So for example, um, I ran into a, uh, somebody I know while back and, and, and she said to me, oh, well I'm here in this clothing shop every Friday.

[00:33:12] I look at the new collection and I buy a couple of things and I. I was like, wow, it didn't even occur to me. I mean, how naive am I that people actually do this? I mean, that would be like my worst nightmare to go to the same shop every Friday, apart from the fact that I always work anyway, so I don't have the time for it.

[00:33:30] But it wouldn't even occur to me to buy a new top every week or to get a new trouser every week, or just even browse the things. But I think a lot of people will have those habits. Yeah, they don't even think about it. And that's when the money disappears, 

[00:33:44] Jill: doesn't it? It, it does sound completely foreign.

[00:33:48] But then at the same time, I remember back to there, there was a point in my life where I was going to yard sales every single weekend. It was an activity for me and it was something that I could. Afford on my low income. Yeah. And kind of made me feel as though, oh, I'm getting something. Yeah. That, that isn't breaking the bank.

[00:34:09] 'cause I have very little money and that dopamine hit that Jen was talking about earlier. So we all have our vices and it's easy to point to one person and say, oh, I don't do that. But then I look at myself, I'm like, oh yeah, I, I can understand that this was, this was my Friday new top every week. And so, I think a a no spend challenge can help us to realize what that thing is for us.

[00:34:34] It took me a long time too to stop being drawn to red tags. I was clearance section. I. F girl, for lack of a better word, like I am just drawn to the clearance section and sometimes I can still feel that pull where suddenly I look up and I discover myself in in the clearance bin and I'm like, how did I get here?

[00:34:59] Why am I here right now? I wasn't really, truly thinking and I don't need. Any of this stuff, but until we kind of do some of these more challenges or exercises that are going to help us be aware of that, those are the types of things that we're going to find ourselves doing. Whether it's the dollar bin at Target or, I don't know what the equivalent would be for you, Ingrid, in the, in the shops and stores nearby.

[00:35:26] But yeah, being drawn to the clearance rack, the red tags, the, the new stuff, whatever it is, it's something like a no spend challenge. That can help us to realize, oh, this is a habit of mine. I'm not even really thinking about this. This is a little bit impulsive, but what does this tell me about myself? And how could I interrupt this cycle?

[00:35:47] Yeah. What is it that I think I'm getting from this experience, and is there another way that I could experience that high, that dopamine hit whatever it is that I'm receiving right now? Is there another way that I can get. That without spending money, I don't mean to spend bringing things into my home that I don't actually want in my home.

[00:36:07] I'm just going to declutter in a month from now. What else could I be engaging in? And that's going to take time too. Yeah. '

[00:36:14] Ingrid: cause that was indeed my next question. So how do you build those habits to not spend? Do you need to find something to do that doesn't cost money? Like, I mean, I dunno, walking or cycling or?

[00:36:26] Running, which is would not be on my list of things to do, but walking could definitely cycling, running. No, but how do we build those habits? To stop us spending money all the time. 

[00:36:39] Jill: It's going to start in our mind. It's going to start with an introspective look at ourselves, our thoughts, our beliefs, our ways of relating with the world around us.

[00:36:53] And some of that's going to take some processing, some pondering, some reflection. A lot of it does intersect with that whole core value concept that we talked about already. Mm-hmm. And then looking at, and this could be just pulling up our bank statement and our credit card statement, and looking back over the past couple of months on what have I spent on, what does this tell me about myself, what things am I really glad that I spent on, and what things am I like?

[00:37:21] Oh, that really doesn't feel like it represents me Well, I wish that I wouldn't have spent on those things. That's going to be indicative of core values, and it's going to be indicative of the changes that you want to see for some from there. And no spend challenge can be a really great jumpstart. Others aren't going to need that.

[00:37:39] It might just be implementing greater levels of curiosity or a pause or a staying away from stores that we know can be somewhat challenging, but then also creating freedom of where we're going to spend, not just the slicing and dicing, but where do I have freedom to spend, which is going to make saying no to ourselves in those impulsive moments.

[00:38:04] Easier because we know we've got a why behind it now of I'm not going to buy this dollar store item, or I'm not going to go to this yard sale because I'd rather put tho that $10 towards a trip that I hope to take in six months from now. So when we can start to be mindful of it and attach it to a why, it's going to help create those better habits.

[00:38:27] Yeah. 

[00:38:27] Ingrid: Yeah, for sure. Again, so much overlap with decluttering. Why are you decluttering your house? What's the goal here? What's the, the long-term vision? Yes, you can say I want to declutter my whole house, but. Y that's never possible in a weekend or in, in, in, in a week. You know, you have to understand your reason why you want to do that.

[00:38:48] So you can always look back and go, is the stuff that I'm keeping now, is it helping me towards my goal and my vision for this house or for this room? And when you can then say, no, actually it doesn't, then it, it helps you with making more. Thought out decisions about where you're going and what's important enough to stay, so, oh, I'm so with you.

[00:39:09] I'm so with you. So, um, okay. I think we've, we've covered a lot. Question that I didn't put on the list, but I would love to know, have you guys got a budget now? 

[00:39:22] Jill: Yes. I, I still, I love budgeting. To me, it's not restrictive. My mindset around it really has become a, a spending plan. Yeah. Where is my money going?

[00:39:34] How am I getting at some of these other goals? So I love having a pulse on that. Uh, my husband and I get paid biweekly, so I look at our finances biweekly. Yeah. And I'm able to kind of allocate some of the money to these different sinking funds and buckets. I'm able to plan more intentionally on what we're going to do for food that week.

[00:39:55] In light of. What happened and what's to come. So I do, I have a beautiful spreadsheet that I utilize and I love engaging with it, but that's me, and there's freedom for that. I know you're about to hear from Jen, approaches it a little bit differently. But yes, I have a budget and I love 

[00:40:11] Jen: it. Yeah, we don't have a strict budget because I really like flexibility.

[00:40:19] Um, I have spent a lot of time figuring out what I value and what I don't value, and so I check in every month with my transactions to make sure, um, that I am spending. Um, we, we just pay, we pay our bills, we do our investments, we do our savings. We do all that first, and then we kind of spend the rest. And so we make sure that we are not spending into our buffer every month that every transaction we've made has actually been made by us and not by somebody nefarious.

[00:40:54] Um, and that's really how we do it. But for the first several years, yes, we budgeted. Um, S uh, not strictly, but we budgeted, um, more comprehensively, uh, so that we could train ourselves Yeah. To get where we are. I 

[00:41:10] Ingrid: think it's also having that insight into actually how much money does come in and what do we spend it on, how much is, is actually left after we've paid all of our utilities and our car payments and our things, because I think there's, there's such a, uh, a miss.

[00:41:30] People are just, Don't have enough grasp on how much comes in and what goes out, and then it kind of feels out of control. Well, if you've got a far better idea of the, the, the costs that are going out every month and then all the other random bits, it's like, and because it's like, what? 'cause I heard somebody say, I have.

[00:41:49] Enough money coming in, but it just disappears on me. How is that possible? And when she then started to really look at her finance, it's like, oh, it is all the discretionary spending here, there and everywhere and overbuying and thinking you can get a sale thing, but then it ends up in a cupboard never to be worn again.

[00:42:08] And then it's just basically lost money. Mm-hmm. So I think definitely it's really true and I love it that you guys are so different, and I think that's the same with me and Leslie. I'm very quite. Frugal. I, I, I'm really careful with what I spend my money on. Leslie, on the other hand, is in a family of people who actually really love to buy things, but she's very good at decluttering at it as well.

[00:42:30] So, so it, it's a nice combination, isn't it? And I think that's what works for you guys as well, so, well, that you've got different points of view and you can share that with your audience. Talking about audience, where can people find you? If people, if my listeners, if our listeners want to listen in to you guys, where can they find you?

[00:42:48] Jill: Oh, we'd love that. There's so much good crossover here with you, Ingrid and, and your co-host, Leslie, wherever you're listening to this podcast, you can find The Frugal Friends podcast as well. So just search Frugal friends. It'll come up on any podcast player. And from there, if you want even more tips, we've got a free ebook that we give to anyone who wants it.

[00:43:11] Frugal Friends podcast.com/ebook to get even more tips from us. 

[00:43:17] Ingrid: I will put all of that in the show notes. So if you're like, okay, I'm, I'm driving now. I can't write this all down. Go to declutter hub.com/two 12 and I will put all this information in the show notes, put all the links in so everybody can find it.

[00:43:31] And of course, I hope, I love saving money, so I hope of course, that some of our listeners are like, Yes, I need to do this. So let us know in the comments. We would love to know, have you guys been inspired? Does frugality all of a sudden sound a lot less scary than you thought it was going to be? Are you inspired to maybe do a seven day no spend challenge?

[00:43:55] Tell us, because then I can tell Jen and Jill go, yay, we've got somebody on board. We've converted somebody. We've got another frugal friend coming your way. We'd love to know. So thank you Jen and Jill for being here. I really, really appreciate it and, um, thanks everyone so much for listening. So thank you.

[00:44:13] Jill: Thanks for having us. 

[00:44:14] Ingrid: Thank you so much. All right, everybody. That was it for this week, next week's podcast, 10 things you're holding onto, you'll never use. So listen in. We look forward to seeing you then.
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Recent Posts
Episode 320 – What is clutter blindness and how to fix it?

Episode 319 – Katie Mortram from Good Housekeeping chats all things clutter

Episode 316 – Stopping overshopping with Carrie Rattle

Episode 315 – 10 ways to declutter spontaneously

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Anna H says:

12 November 2022 at 9:38 PM

Good podcast 212. Needed this and will try to implement a seven day challenge and work up to 30 days. Anna

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  14 November 2022 at 10:59 AM
  
  Hi Anna,
  Thank you for commenting and good luck!
  Ingrid
  
  Reply
Episode 212 – Frugality with frugal friends Jen and Jill

Episode 320 – What is clutter blindness and how to fix it?

Episode 319 – Katie Mortram from Good Housekeeping chats all things clutter

Episode 316 – Stopping overshopping with Carrie Rattle

Episode 315 – 10 ways to declutter spontaneously

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