Episode 90 – Maximising space in a loft

In this podcast, we talk to Lindsay Brown from Access 4 Lofts about what you can do to maximise the space in your loft, make it accessible, user friendly and safe, so you can find what you need when you need it.
Maximising space in your loft can be a game changer for some people as it allows you to store things you don't have space for in your house. But don't let this space be neglected. Boarding, shelving and lighting your loft effectively is critical to maximise the loft space.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The declutter hub podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host, professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen, and Lesley Spellman.

Lesley  0:32  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 90 of the declutter Podcast. I'm Lesley. If you have clutter and want to sort it out. This is the show for you. Now, in today's episode, I'm talking to Lindsay Brown, the director and co founder of a UK company access for lofts. Now, Lindsay and her husband Tim moved back to Devon, 16 years ago, after living a real corporate life in London for 15 years. And when they got to the new house, they were looking for someone to put a loft ladder so that they could maximise the space in their loft. And they really, really struggled to find someone like hudl, who does that? Where would you go? What kind of builder would you use to do that kind of work. So this got them thinking about the fact that was a huge gap in the market for someone to do a professional job making a lot of space accessible. And that's where the idea for access for loss was born. So welcome to the podcast, Lindsay.

Lindsay  1:27  
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Lesley  1:29  
So I was really excited when we spoke to you a couple of weeks ago, because as everybody knows, Ingrid, and I love a laugh. Now a loft can be an absolute nightmare, or it can fix all the problems in your house. And so we have a strange relationship with laughs, we did a huge loft series where we went through everything from the emotions involved in putting stuff we put up in the loft, to declutter in a lab to organise it to zoning it. And the one thing we talked a lot about was safety, accessibility, visibility, that kind of thing. And your company does exactly the kind of thing that we were talking about. And so we asked you to come on the podcast to talk about the possibilities at your end and what you find with people who embark on trying to enhance their lives, shall we say? Now once make it clear, before we get started that we're not talking about a loft conversion here. So we're not talking about making the loft into a room. We're talking about making a loft into storage. So do you want to talk a little bit about that Lindsay? Does access for loss actually do? Yep. So

Lindsay  2:28  
basically, we create amazing storage spaces in loft. So we will put in a loft ladder loft hatched board out an area of the loft put in shelving, insulation, if it's needed. The regulations state that you've got to have at least 270 mil in your life these days. And that saves you money. But yeah, we're we like to say we're kind of in and out in a day. So definitely not love conversion, depending on how much how much boring we're doing. It might take us a couple of days but vastly cheaper and and so much more convenient to create that storage space.

Lesley  3:03  
Yeah, if it's doing well it can be absolutely incredible. So what are the main reasons do you find that people come to you for a loft maker but let's call it a loft makeover shower.

Lindsay  3:13  
Oh, loft makeover, I'm gonna steal that generally people use probably use a room in their house or you know, they put dump everything in their spare bedroom, and we're finding more now that group, they want to get that guest room back, they want you know, they may have children returning from university, they may just want to have family to stay. We get a lot of this at Christmas time. But generally people use some room in their house to dump their clutter, things they don't know what to do with. And that's one of the main reasons. Also we have people that are getting a bit older and don't feel safe and bring up into their loft in the way that they have done when they were slightly younger. So yeah, there are there are many reasons, but people just want to have some where they can store items that they don't need every day

Lesley  4:01  
is going back to that thing that I was talking about before. Really Lindsey isn't it. It's about visibility. And we talk about this all the time we talk about visibility, which you know, in a nutshell means you want to be able to see where your stuff is easily when you go in there, and accessibility. And those things are often sadly lacking in lofts. Because it's awkward to get in there. And so how often do people just oh, that needs to go up into loft and they've got to move furniture to get in there. They've got to until they just put it at the bottom of the loft ladder or in a room waiting to go up to the loft. Now if you've got something you've got a decent loft ladder that's easy to pull down and easy to access. You've got a nice you know, honestly the amount of times I've like nearly killed myself trying to squash through a lock like that with a box in turn. This is the thing you're trying to you're trying to carry a box up the law flooded with the bugs. It's an absolute nightmare. So loft hatches from years ago were tiny weren't there. But what you see now of course and I'm sure what you do is you make nice substance to loft hatches that you can get yourself under box through the lock ladder at the same time. So those are the reasons why people come to us. So I suppose, as houses kind of getting a little bit smaller these days, especially with new builds and things like that, aren't they? The storage isn't what it was, even though it looks like it when you buy it looks like it's incredible storage. And then you buy a new belt and you're like, Huh, where's the storage in here? And so lofts are becoming more and more important, aren't they? So the really interesting thing for me is that you maximise that space, and you can put in there storage, you want to explain a little bit about the type of storage that you put in there, Lindsey? Yeah,

Lindsay  5:38  
absolutely. So I mean, obviously, going back to sort of the the hatches and how small they used to be even in the new builds. Now, generally, there's a loft hatch already there standard size, and you can easily get your ladder and also a box and carry that up there. But we still to this day, do a lot of Victorian properties where the hatches really small, we've got to enlarge that to get it to a decent size. And so once we're up there, we can top up the insulation and place the boarding down and we don't put anything down straight onto the floor, it's always raised up because you don't want to compress your insulation. That's definitely a top tip. If you're doing it yourself, do not board straight on top of it, because it will compress it and just make it you know, just doesn't do its job properly.

Lesley  6:20  
Oh, that's interesting to know. So so if you're doing if you're bored, and on top of insulation, you've got to put some kind of little raises.

Lindsay  6:29  
We call it a floating floor. In the new builds, we used a different product which distributes the weight. But in older houses, yeah, never go down straight on top of the installation, you need to raise it up slightly. But yeah, once we're up there, and we've got that boarding down, we also put in shelving, and that is an absolute godsend for lots of people because you know you are you're lifting stuff off the floor for a start. So it gives you that extra space is no point boarding into the eaves, because you don't get anything in there anyway. So these these shelves are, well, they literally fly off the shelves. They are really, really useful and is great because you can get a decent amount of boxes on there, you can stack things in keeping that that that area that we've done at the boarding as clear as possible. So you can really like you were saying it can be visible, you know where your things are. It's, it's life changing some people really,

Lesley  7:23  
I think it is lifetime. You see, this is the kind of decluttering geek in me, because I am super, super excited now about the thought of having bespoke shelving in a loft makes me so excited. I was saying to you before Lindsey wasn't a that I think in all the years and I've done a lot of laughs in my time, I don't think I've seen anything other than plastic boxes, or a kind of makeshift shelving unit, which is perfectly fine. And depending on what that looks like it can work really well. But the thought of taking it up to that next level and having shells built in that you can actually use and you can label those shelves. And you can presumably they're all a really nice size to get the right boxes in the inner decluttering geek is definitely getting excited about this one Lindsey and I just I only wish that I had a waft. And I don't subtly because as everybody knows, I changed my life into a laundry room. So I do not have a lot of space, sadly. But anyway, maybe it's worth me moving house to get some shelving in my loft or something? I think so. Definitely, definitely. So that gives us an idea of the kind of thing you do. So you talk it so normally when you work, then you're just bored in that central section then is what you're saying you kind of leaving off to the side. Now one of the things that I find, you know, I probably spend more time maybe not more than ulinzi. But I probably spend more time and a lot that a lot of people, because if I'm doing a lot declutter can be up there for several days, and not many people tend to do that you tend to Bob, Bob and Bob straight back down, because it's not a nice place to be. And so one of the things I find is that everything gets really, really dirty all the time and aloft. So do you have something that fixes that problem?

Lindsay  8:55  
Absolutely, yeah, we use what we call a breathable membrane, which goes sort of into the roof space, and it captures all that dust. Over time, you'll find that the felt that's used in the roof deteriorates, is generally that that's breaking down and causing the dust. It really brightens up as well because weirdly, it's white. But it does really brighten it up as well. So that captures any dust depending on what you're storing up there. But generally you don't want even when your boxes well I'd certainly don't like the boxes when they're covered in the dust. You don't want to touch them and you just see it as a dirty place to be storing things really. So that's that's really popular now, as are the LED lights and everything because you're obviously not scared of spiders and neither am I but a lot of people are a home. So having that bright space and being able to see exactly what you're doing is will certainly make it a more attractive place to go and store your stuff I think.

Lesley  9:49  
I don't think that's the key Lindsey that's the key is quite often what we say when we're talking about these overflow storage area areas whether that be a garage or loft or a basement So, make it a nice place to be and take as much care in that room as you would in your lounge, we're obviously not going to stop putting wallpaper on the walls, but make it a nice place to be. And make it labelled, make it accessible, make it bright. And so that the barrier, that's because there's a psychological barrier, as you rightly say, which is I don't want to go up in the loft, it's really dark, it's dingy, it's dirty, it's, everything's covered in a mess, you know, it's awkward to get into. So all of these barriers psychologically, are stopping us from putting things away, or doing as much as we can to kind of keep on top of the stuff that's up there. Which is the reason why we end up just shoving stuff up there, which is what we do know people literally push boxes and push it up the ladder, and then shut the hatch. And that's the end of that. And that's what we're trying to avoid. And that's what we can avoid if you take some time and some care in creating a space that you can really work with. So when people come this is this is what I'm really interested in. So right so somebody said, right, you know what, Lindsey? Absolutely, we want our we want our love space body. Now we want to make it an accessible space and visible etc. We've got too much stuff. What do they need to do before you work with them? So I'm thinking that obviously the the whole of the laughed in principle needs to be emptied, which is quite a colossal task for most people. So do people do that? Do they empty? Do they declutter define that they are decluttering first or that they're saying, Oh, my word. They're coming tomorrow and I've got all this stuff. And it's like some kind of crazy free for all the day before a frantic, frantic trying to say.

Lindsay  11:30  
I wish it was the case that people said, oh, let's clear the lofts. Because they're coming. No, that doesn't happen. And to be fair, we do say on all our on all our paperwork that the loft needs to be clear, because we do need to be able to get up there and move around. But generally what will happen is some of the bigger stuff may come down and sit in the spare room while we're working there. But generally, the customer will have moved things to one side or bought the other side then move everything back. You know we got we got some lofts. And it's absolutely Chaka, we got two others where they've got a couple of boxes and a Christmas tree. So it does, it does vary. But we can work around you really. But if it's absolutely full them, you know, we do need a room to be able to at least to get up there. So

Lesley  12:12  
that's great, actually. So we've talked about the kinds of things that people do and how that works before. So I want to come back and talk about maybe some interesting things that you've seen in your time of loft boarding. But before we do, I want to talk about what we do at the declutter hub to help you to declutter your left. So within the declutter hub, we have a room by room bootcamp. And what that means is we tackle one room at a time in an order that makes sense. So Ingrid and I have looked at all the rooms in the house and what makes sense emotionally, what we don't want to do is we don't want to tackle really difficult projects right off the bat, we want to start and take it one step at a time. So the loft, garage and basement shared all of those overflow storage areas. We cover it as the fifth area in our bootcamp and we've done before that we've done kitchen, we've done bedroom, which are generally easier rooms to actually do the left, because the left is a huge job. And so that's how that's the fifth week of our eight week is equal to boot camp. So what is the boot camp all about? We have within the boot camp, we have step by step videos. So Ingrid and I are on camera talking about our experiences of things, giving you all our hints and tips telling you how to declutter, tell me how to organise suggesting storage to you. And we also do show rounds of what we have in our own homes. You're gonna be disappointed with my last show round, because as I said, I haven't got one. But and Ingrid hasn't got one either. So there was no show rounds of the lot. But we do do one of our galleries, just in case you're interested. So we're just seeing the first draft of the declutter boot camp people, this boot campers have just come through and they've done their whole house. And they are seeing some absolutely brilliant results. If you're interested in doing your house room by room and taking it one step at a time, that boot camp might be just the thing for you. So go and take a look at members start declutter.com. And you can get all of the information that you need about the bootcamp. And we'll include it obviously in the show notes as well. So if you're listening to this podcast, and you're thinking, You know what I really, really would love that kind of his time. And I know now that some of those company out there that they can do this kind of thing for me. decluttering is probably going to be on your agenda. So maybe our boot camp is just the thing for you. Anyway, right, Lindsay, I want to ask you about some of the lofts that you've gone into that have maybe been accidents waiting to happen now told you I know you told me before a little story about what happened in your house when you were growing up and I think it's resonates with a lot of people. So tell us about

Lindsay  14:34  
that. Ya know, my dad used to get in his little two step, step ladder climb up to the top then put his foot on the ledge of the bathroom door and then doorframe and then hoist himself up into the loft. It really was an accident waiting to happen. He he read he wasn't very good at staying on his feet generally. Anyway, he was he was always a little unstable. So my mum was always shouting at him and saying you know we you need to use a proper ladder. So I always think about him when we're putting in the loft ladders because we speak to so many people that are like my dad. And also, you know, my, my dad's no longer with us, unfortunately. So my mom is on her own. And having that loft ladder is made such a difference to her. The thought of her getting up into the loft like my dad used to do, but she, she just wouldn't be able to do it. But she's up and down there all the time. Now she doesn't wait for anybody or you know, we don't have to go around the elbow with that. She's actually got a really nice tidy loft. Now Monday, she gave us most of our stuff back. She said, Come on kids, time to take their own stuff back. That's a top tip I think, give your children back or their or their stuff that they've been storing in your loft since they left home. But yeah, it made a massive difference to their lives. And I'm so glad we did that. It makes me smile thinking about him doing that.

Lesley  15:48  
And it's not uncommon is it it's not uncommon at all. And that again, that's the problem because it's you saying oh, you've got to go and get a ladder but then you've got to go all the way downstairs you might have to go to shed go to garage, bring it up, it's awkward to bring it up and then get in the position and have it right. And talking about loft ladders. Lindsay, you know, there really are different qualities of loft ladder. So, you know, again, because I spend a lot of time in lofts. You know, it's like music to my ears when I see certain kinds of law flight as compared to others. Some are very rickety, nearly cut your fingers off trying to get them open half the time. So I know which kind of loft ladder I prefer. And and something that I saw more recently was a lot of them talking about your mom, I've got handrails on them as well, haven't they? So you've actually got handrail that you can use going up, which is fantastic. Yeah, they really are. So very

Lindsay  16:35  
good quality now that, you know, some people prefer sort of the wooden ladders because there's a wider tread. But some of the telescopic ladders have really good wide tread, for people to feel safer, as well. And yeah, the three section ladders come with the hand rail, you can have it on one side or the other. It's entirely up to you. Which you know, depending on which hand is more dominant for you. And it just gives you that extra feeling of support. Doesn't it safety holding on to that rail as you're going up? Because it you know, it can it can be scary, regardless of whether you've got the right equipment or not, you need to be careful, you shouldn't be going up there and your flip flops or slippers. That's for sure.

Lesley  17:14  
Exactly, exactly. When we did our podcast series, we had to do three episodes, because it's so meaty actually talking about laughs. And we talked a lot about logistics and safety. And one of the things that always really bothers me is the amount of weights that people are putting in their lofts. So is that something that you see as a problem? Is there an infinite amount of weight? Can you put as much weight in a loft as you can in a normal room? Or is it less? How does that all work? I know you can't be specific because it's gonna be very dependent on the house and things. But just feel that people are overloading their last basis generally.

Lindsay  17:46  
Sometimes, you know, like I say, sometimes we go up there, and it's literally just a Christmas tree and a couple of boxes, and that's fine. You just need to be sensible about it really, you know, you shouldn't not gonna have a weight bench up there and weightlifting equipment and things like that, you do have to think about that. One thing I do want to mention is people that have got new houses because we were saying before, when we were chatting that they don't have the storage space necessarily in the new builds, we always think that they do but actually when you move in there, you realise that there's there's not a lot, and people get told all the time that they can't put stuff up in the loft, because it's not built to take any weight and it's normally got a lot of insulation up there to make it energy efficient, which is right. And that is probably going to invalidate their NHBC warranty. But if the house has been constructed with a loft hatch there, then the trusses should have been designed to support storage load of 25 kilogramme per square metre and 90 kilogramme person. So if you're putting up a few boxes and spreading them out over shelving, then you know, you haven't got a problem, I think you know, just just be just be mindful of it really and think about and think about that you shouldn't you shouldn't be overloading it but equally, it is a fantastic storage space. And if you're sensible with it, you can get a lot of things up there.

Lesley  19:04  
Definitely nothing that's really useful to know actually about the new builds and everything because you know, people will get if that's what they've been told, and people will will go along with that. So that is a possibility. And that's something that you see within your work as well.

Lindsay  19:18  
We also see because the new houses tend to come with nice garages etc. We actually do a lot of boarding and garages as well. We don't necessarily need to make it as as cosmetically beautiful. You know when when it's in someone's carriage but you can put a ladder in and board out above above the in the trusses of the of the garage as well. So if you can't when you laugh, generally you can get get some sort of extra storage in your garage too.

Lesley  19:43  
And that's always really useful for things like top boxes on your car, isn't it and like if people have got skis maybe and camping stuff, yeah, no, that's really useful to know as well. If you've got one of those really tall garages you mean with sort of, yeah, with a big peak. I don't know how to explain it. But I'm sure you know how to explain in a technical way, but I'd right then Well, I mean, I'm excited. As I say, I wish I had a laughs I could get it boarded up, but I don't. So this is just gonna won't work with what I've got. Now, Lindsey, people are gonna be like, well, this all sounds really well and good. And I'd really, really love that. But I bet it's really expensive. So I know, you can't tell us exactly how much it cost because it can depend very much on the loft space, the size of the loft, the amount of board and the type of ladder, there's loads of different things that are going to come into play. But give us an idea of what the range is or where it starts from or something like that, just so that we can people can see whether they're whether or not this is a possibility for them.

Lindsay  20:36  
I mean, yeah, I mean, you're right, we can't, we don't quote we all we we offer a free survey so that we can go round and really take a good look at the loft. You know, and we do have that guarantee that if we haven't spotted it, and we started work, and there's a problem, then you don't pay any more for it. You know, that's the whole point of us doing a thorough survey, when we first come around. But I mean, you're looking at, I would say with for a hatch and ladder stand that hatch and alley and a small amount of boarding, you'd get changed out 500 pounds. But it does depend exactly on what you want, you know, and we have two section natters, they all come with a great guarantee, we offer a lifetime guarantee, but a lot of the ladders come with their own guarantee. So I would say you know that even the cheaper options are a good, a good ladder. So it does depend on your choice on whether you want lights and everything else up there. But yeah, I think people think it's going to be really, really expensive for but you know, you're looking at less than 1000 pounds for a decent amount of boarding hatch, ladder lights, you know, installation is definitely worth looking at it as an option. I would say no. And you can also look at doing it yourself. It's not rocket science, but the end of the day, it needs to be done professionally and properly. Because you know, safety is an issue. But yeah, I would say it's one of those jobs that I would definitely pay someone

Lesley  21:55  
to do. Yeah, definitely. You know, I think there's a lot of a lot that could go wrong. If you don't know what you're doing. I think that's the problem isn't it's not as simple as doing some basic DIY around your house, unless you know what you're doing right and getting the boardroom right and safety and getting the dimensions of the last patch in the ladder, there's quite a lot that you've got to think about really, I mean, if I'm honest with you, Lindsay, that's much less than I would have thought it would be. And in my experience, certainly that people are really struggling with storage or inaccessible storage. I think that will be for a lot of people if they could afford it, obviously, money well spent in terms of an enhancement to your house. It couldn't, you know, you said right at the beginning of the podcast, it could be life changing. And it can because that stuff can be very debilitating and not being able to access it. It's just a constant frustration. And that's the point. And I know, I'm in the world of clutter. And so there's other things in life that are life changing, but in that clutter environment, and you know, in terms of storage and making the house work for you, I certainly think that it would be worth the investment. So you're in the UK, Lindsay, your UK company.

Lindsay  23:00  
So when Tim and I moved to Devon and started up access for lofts, we were literally a local company, one man band, but I come from a marketing background. And I really saw the potential in this. So we decided to franchise the company. And now we've got 23 franchisees around the country covering about 34 territories, some of them have bought extra territories. So we're we're looking for nationwide domination before we move on to the world.

Lesley  23:26  
This podcast is not being about a sales pitch for access for lofts, although we would love you to use them, obviously. Because it sounds like a great company. This is about the possibilities and opening your mind to the fact that something that you think might be quite difficult, can really change things up in terms of the way that you store things at home. So you pretty much cover most of the UK, don't you

Lindsay  23:46  
Lindsay? Yep, from Scotland down to Plymouth.

Lesley  23:50  
So that's pretty comprehensive, comprehensive, Scotland to Plymouth. So listeners, I hope you've learned a lot today and that lenses insights have been helpful for you. If you'd like to know more about Lindsay and accessible laughs we'll post a link to the website and her social media in the show notes for you. Now, I know Lindsay, you said you were going to give us an information sheet that we can also post in the show notes that might be useful for some people. So what's that going to be about?

Lindsay  24:16  
Yeah, so that's our new house information sheet. So that's for people that are living in properties less than 10 years old, that possibly have been told that they can't do anything in their life, because it'll invalidate their NHBC warranty, etc. So yeah, I would, I'll pop that in there as well because it makes really good reading and puts people's mind at rest as well as about whether they can have that job done.

Lesley  24:39  
Perfect. That's great. So thanks, everyone for taking the time to listen today. If you want more tips and advice from Ingrid and you can find us in lots and lots of different places. We've got a fab supportive Facebook group called the decal tub community, which is a great starting point. We're on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook as well and you can find us as at declutter hub. If you don't want to miss our next podcast. Subscribe to the declutter podcast in your podcast player, and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. We've been asking for reviews to which make a huge difference to us. So if you've enjoyed today or any of our other podcasts, we would love you to take a couple of minutes out of your day to leave us a review. Thanks so much for listening and see you next time.

Outro  25:18  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the declutter hub podcast. Check out declutter hub.com for more inspiration, and don't forget to tune in next week.
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