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Episode 244 – How to create your lasting legacy

Deciding what to leave behind when you die is a personal decision that should be made with care and consideration for your loved ones and your own values and priorities. But how do we make sure we are leaving the right things to the right people so your legacy can be a lasting one?
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Ingrid: Deciding what to leave behind when you die is a personal decision that should be made with care and consideration for your loved ones and your own values and priorities. But how do we make sure we are leaving the right things to the right people so your legacy can be a lasting one? 

[00:00:22] Voiceover: You are listening to the Declutter Hub Podcast, bringing you tried and tested, no nonsense tips and advice from the lead in experts in decluttering and organising your home. Now here are your hosts, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

[00:00:53] Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Lesley. If you're new to the Declutter Hub Podcast, you are so welcome. What you'll find here is reality, empathy, and advised by the bucket load. And if you've been here for a while, thanks so much for listening. 

[00:01:10] Lesley: If you'd like the added bonus of watching us, as well as listening, you might want to find our podcast on our YouTube channel.

Search for the Declutter Hub, and you can see us chat each and every week. Don't forget to subscribe to our channel so it pops into your notifications each Friday too.

So Ingrid, we have our new little segment, which is all about people who've sent us emails and reviews about the podcast specifically.

And so we had one this week from JMD317 and she sent that in Via Apple podcast. Very nice. Thank you JMD317. I'm always intrigued to know who it is though. Do you know what I mean? Whether it's someone in our world. So JMD317, show yourself and see if we know who you actually are. So she said, love the intro, outro music, and the host. Thank you. Please always keep the intro outro music. It literally gets me up and moving. I binged through until I got caught up. And you ladies and that that music kept me bopping throughout my apartment. Decluttering and assembling the new IKEA dresses I could fit into my decluttered closet. Love your friendship and banter.

The best podcasts are when you are both on. Well, you're in luck today, JMD317 because we are both on, but the problem that I've got with that is it's not that funny of a podcast today. But yeah, before we get started on that, thank you so much for sending us a podcast review. If anybody wants to send us a review, if we're going to read it out, how nice is that?

[00:02:33] Ingrid: Yes. So leave us a review on your podcast player or put a comment in on our, uh, website. So for example, this is episode 244, so you can go to declutterhub.com/244 and leave us a comment or a review if you like. 

[00:02:51] Lesley: So a couple of things that I wanted to mention about JMD317s review, Ingrid. First of all, thank you so much for the intro, outro music, love.

My brother-in-law did the outro music and he would love that. You have said that as well. I'll pass on your kind words to him. And also I think it's fantastic that you managed to declutter your closet enough to be able to fit in new furniture. I like the idea. Do you think you can bop around while you, while you're assembling IKEA furniture?

I'm always a bit grumpy. I'm not really a great IKEA kind of assembly person. Are you, do you like assembling furniture? 

[00:03:25] Ingrid: I stay well out of that. That's, that, that's my husband. He does that kind of stuff. I, I, I'm not involved normally. I'll, I'll make sure there's lunch and tea and drinks and things like that, that's, that's far better suited. I'm, I'm staying away from the DIY, staying away. Well, out of the way. 

[00:03:43] Lesley: It's just something that's never floated my boat I must admit. I just don't, don't like it. But a lot of people really do, don't they? Yeah. Get lost in the moment, but I'm not sure about the bopping, but like that idea. So thank you so much for sharing, and as I said, today's podcast is not too bantery.

I'm not sure we're gonna be bringing the high energy levels today. I know. We have to leave that for another podcast because what are we talking about today, Ingrid? 

[00:04:04] Ingrid: Yes. We're talking about how you can create a lasting legacy. So that sounds quite serious and it is quite serious because of course it all has to do with the fact that we're all gonna die. And that sounds a little bit like macabre, but at some point we, nobody knows when, but we're gonna pass away. But we've got this houses full of stuff and what do you do with it all and what's gonna happen? And some people of course, pass away unexpectedly. Other people know that the end is coming.

Um, others, I mean, we all know we're going to die. I mean, that's no big secret is it? We all know that we're gonna die, but you can get prepared and organised for that. And we don't really talk about it a lot, do we? 

[00:04:52] Lesley: No. No, because it's not really bantery Ingrid, is it? I know. I think it's still essential for us to talk about it.

Yeah. So let, lemme go in with my first question that's just popped into my head. So we talk, you've, you've raised a very valid point that some of us die unexpectedly. Some of us know when we're gonna die and some of us die in very old age. Right. Yeah. So hopefully we've got the, the latter one. Hopefully.

Yeah. Um, but when do you think is a good time to start to create, to start to move on from building a home to starting to think about passing that home on? What kind of age would you think, Ingrid? 

[00:05:29] Ingrid: You know what, that is a really difficult question to ask. I mean, probably a lot of people don't ever want to think about it.

Like la la a I'm gonna live in my house the rest of my life and I'm going to die in my house. And that's it. But a lot of people, um, I think can't do that because their health prevents them from staying in their house. Some people already think when they, when there's children coming into the family, they suddenly start to think about, oh wow, I've got children coming into my family.

And I now need to think about my will and, and all of those things for in case something happens to me when the children are little. So I think that crosses people's minds when maybe people are pregnant or have just had a baby or they suddenly they have a scare of somebody else in their environment and they thought we're not sorted about anything at all like that.

I think maybe sometimes Ill health. Starts to make people go into this and think, wow, actually I'd never thought I would see the day that I would become poorly myself. That was one of the triggers that happened with my, with my mom, because my dad was poorly for a long time, and then she got poorly and suddenly that.

Gave her the whole idea of, oh wow, okay. I need to get some stuff sorted here. So I think it really depends, but I think a lot of us try to be blissfully unaware for a long time. 

[00:06:55] Lesley: Yeah, definitely. And I think that, I think it's interesting actually because I think people are becoming more aware of not passing on things.

Mm-hmm. But other people to deal with. So not passing our, you know, we're in a decluttering, uh, podcast. So not passing on your clutter to other people and really thinking that through. I think there was a book, uh, that came out a few years ago called Swedish Death Cleaning by. Magneta magnuson or Magni?

[00:07:19] Ingrid: Margarita Magnuson or something like that. 

[00:07:21] Lesley: Something like that. Swedish name, Mar. Yeah, I think it might be that. Margarita, Margarita some, something like that. The two s, I think. Yeah. Um, which is a great box. Swedish Death Cleaning goes through the basic principles of decluttering, and then think about creating and thinking about creating this lasting legacy.

I think there's also a lot of people who have kind of preempt that a little bit with the downsize. So a lot of people are trying to free up money out of their properties. Not everybody's staying in their big family home forever. They're downsizing and choosing to kind of free up money or have a simpler life or whatever that looks like.

And so a lot of this is done at the downsize stage and not necessarily at the at a later stage. So I think there's different things. So I'm not at that stage where I'm thinking at this moment, yes, I've made a will. Yes, I've thought about those things, but I'm not. Thinking who's gonna have what yet?

Mm-hmm. And I'm, you are not even 50 yet, Ingrid. I know. 

[00:08:12] Ingrid: I know. I haven't thought about it. Lesley. Soon. Yeah, exactly. 

[00:08:18] Lesley: Yes. Wait till language's. Fifth day. Can't wait. That's later this year. Something for your 50th, don't we? Yeah, I think so. Create a legacy list. It's all downhill. Fifth day. I know. 

[00:08:31] Ingrid: I mean, I, I do have a will.

I do have a will. We have thought about like if something happens to me, Or my, or my husband or who, you know, with the kids and all the, we have thought about that, but I haven't yet thought about, oh, I want this clock to go to this person or anything like that. 

[00:08:47] Lesley: Yeah, and I think it's really important for us to explain what we're gonna be talking about in this podcast.

And so we're not talking about wills and powers of attorney and all the, their legal kind of practical administrative matters. What we're talking about is stuff here, isn't it? And deciding on what stuff should go to what person. If at all. Mm-hmm. So let's get started. So how do we do it? So we're like that.

Okay. One of these things that's happened that has gone, do you know what? I really need to do? Something about that. How do we get started? Because this is a big task, right? 

[00:09:18] Ingrid: Well, Lesley, I think it starts with a list, which of course is one of the main favorite things that I love. I love doing a list. Just write some stuff down.

And it doesn't have to be a fully comprehensive list, but. Things that pop into your head about what you own and what stuff do you have and, and what could possibly be of value, not even in monetary value, but maybe also sentimental value. You know, maybe you've got some jewelry or some artwork or you know, things like that.

Start to think about a list. A list is good. 

[00:09:53] Lesley: You know what I do? You know what? I think it's gonna be really important. I'm just think sort of thinking this through. This is a big project, right? So I feel. And you know what we think about a notebook. I feel this requires a notebook. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I feel that that list is gonna evolve into more lists and thinking and thoughts and planning and actions.

And so I feel that this is a project that deserves its very own notebook. 

[00:10:18] Ingrid: Yeah. Would you agree? 

[00:10:19] Lesley: Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah, and I think that the list at this stage, Ingrid, might not be, you know, might, we might not be down to, you know, my watch that I got when I was, you know, engaged or whatever, might not be at that level.

It might be just broad categories at this stage of, you know, jewelry, you know, might not be talking about which individual pieces of jewelry, but these are the things that are important to me that I believe would form part of my legacy. And then, I think it's important for you then to think about within those categories.

I mean, start drilling down. So let's think about those broad categories first. Gotta start somewhere, haven't we? Mm-hmm. With broad categories, because otherwise it's too overwhelming. If we start to think at this stage, what have I got and who am I gonna give it to? We're getting ahead of ourselves, aren't we?

So we need to think about it at this stage. This is something we've just woken up and said, you know what, today's the day I'm gonna start thinking about this. Is, this is gonna span weeks, months, years even to get to this point. Which is why I think it needs a notebook. Uh, I think it was, it might be really nice for you to kind of almost use it as a bullet journal as well to think, to write down your thoughts about what you did and why you did it.

But think about what's important to you and what you feel that you want your legacy to be. You know what I mean? So within your list, you might have family heirlooms, you know, so do you want to pass those family heirlooms down the generations? Uh, what kind of things are sentimental to you? So it might not be jewelry, it might be.

It might be notes that you've taken, it might be diaries, it might be, there's all number of things. So think about the kind of things that have made you tick and are part of you and your kind of life. What represents you, your emotional connection to stuff, what's important to you? I think it's things like that.

Mm-hmm. So before we can even start with stuff, we need to think about kind of categories of. Things don't work. Yeah. It's hard to kind of explain, but you know what I mean. 

[00:12:11] Ingrid: I think it's also interesting because you might identify then items that might not have any sentimental monetary value to somebody else, but you find out actually for you, they're really important, which you hadn't realised, and it may be something that you've inherited yourself or that you have.

Bills created, bought over the years in your own lifetime. So I think it's identifying those key pieces, isn't it, that you think, okay. Those are the ones that, that are important to me. Maybe the jewelry is not it at all. You can go, actually, it doesn't matter to me at all. It was just something that I enjoyed wearing.

It gonna all be sold and that money can be used for something else. But maybe if there's completely other things that an somebody in your family might not even know you have or with that is important to you. 

[00:13:02] Lesley: Definitely, and I think, you know, you're talking about other people in the family. Maybe this is the stage at which is once you've thought about your list, your broad categories, you've got a kind of project guide together almost, and started to really think this through.

Think about the who, so who. Is going to inherit my things. Who would want to inherit things? You know, if you are an older generation, you may have multiple grandchildren, you might not have any, any grandchildren at all. How do you make sure that your, your legacy continues if you don't have immediate family like that?

You know, have you got friends? Have you got, um, colleagues or somebody like that that these things might get passed down to? So who is going to be the beneficiary of your legacy as well? Mm-hmm. Really important to think about that. Cause I know. You know, if I think about my, um, my own, uh, dad and father-in-law, you know, if I think about their grandchildren, they would all have very different things that they would, you know, so their interaction with their granddads is very different depending on the way that their minds work and what kind of things are special to them and what kind of experiences they've had with them.

So I'd imagine that there would be, Different things that they would want to give to different people based on their experiences. And so it's not, you know, you've not got, oh, I've got to, I've got eight grandchildren and I've got eight things that I need to split down. Hopefully there should be really obvious connections that you've had with people which lead you down a path where, you know, Aaliyah would love that part of my life, or Luke would like that because that's the way that his mind works.

Or Nathan would love that, or, do you know what I mean? That kind of thing. So I think it's really, you know, important to think about. Them as well and what makes them tick and what might, what they might want to, to, um, to be, to reflect on later in life. 

[00:14:47] Ingrid: Mm-hmm. And I think it's also Lesley, important to start some of these conversations as well.

Don't be afraid to, to kind of start that, that conversation, because of course nobody wants to think about, oh, uh, when I die, what kind of stuff do you want? But in the end, the end is inevitable. So it's nicer to know that you can kind of have these conversations when you're still alive yourself, and you can kind of get a feel for what's important, I think, as well.

[00:15:19] Lesley: Yeah, definitely. And cause I think, you know, sometimes, you know, older generations don't understand how important certain things are to the younger generations. Mm-hmm. And so, because those conversations never happen and that's what, you know, that's what this is all about. It's not a transactional thing.

It's not about, oh, this was my stuff and now it's your stuff and there's nothing in between. We need to bridge that gap between the life that came before and the life that comes afterwards and understand. Why those things are important, I think because a lot of times when we, when we think about will and giving stuff away and all that kind of stuff, you know, people inheriting things.

Often it's about monetary value, isn't it? Mm-hmm. Often it's like, oh well there's my really fancy diamond ring that I'm gonna give to my granddaughter, or whatever that might be. And often it's not that kind of stuff that's important. Mm-hmm. It's nice of course to have diamond ring and that does have sentimental value and stuff, but it might be other things I mentioned, diary, artwork, paintings.

It might even be a piece of crockery, it might, any number of things, you know, cause we all have those nostalgic things that make us think of. You know, a loved one, don't we? Yeah. So I think it's important for you to think about why, so why do you want that to be part of your legacy, and why would the person that you are leaving your legacy to want that stuff Really important?

Because, and as I say, I think people are getting much better at thinking about that now. You know, I think it's not an automatic, well, you know, is the house and you just go through it and decide what you want from it, because then often it's quite. I don't know. I find it quite a soulless if there's no guidance at all.

It's hard, isn't it? Yeah. Because you've got that guilty feeling where you've not been guided appropriately while someone's been alive as to, these are the special things, and this is just the normal stuff of life. You know? You don't need to keep my cleaning products and even my clothes. It might be one or two clothes that reminds you very much of me, but for the most part it's just functional stuff that made me kind of, Go through my daily life.

Yeah. And so really think about why would those people want your stuff? Is there some value to them? Because what you don't wanna do, we don't wanna overload other people with just stuff that's just functional. Do 

[00:17:34] Ingrid: we? Yeah. And I think that's the problem, Lesley, because a lot of people do not want to think about it, talk about it, do anything about it.

They kind of keep sh shoving it forward thinking We would all, we will all live forever. We never have to downsize, we're never gonna have in ill health. And then all of a sudden there can be a, a, a cascade of things happening and then suddenly somebody has to leave their house, whether to a hospital or downsizing, whatever it is.

And then everything, all of a sudden has to be done really, really quickly with no time to even think about anything. And then, or worst case scenario, the person passes away and leaves a whole house full of stuff left for their. It's oftentimes children to deal with, and that's when you see the cartoons of this whole garage full of stuff going, son, one day this will all be yours.

And you can see the person going, oh no, this is not what I want. Because it is an incredible amount of work. I mean, and we see that in our membership as well, don't we? Lots of our members are dealing with. Houses from family members and it can take such a long time. And all the family dynamics of, of, of, of families involved in, in a, in a house, uh, sorting out, it's incredible.

[00:18:54] Lesley: I think that it's important, you know, we were talking about bridging that gap between the older generation and the new generation. Now's the time. Um, I mean, you know, um, Ingrid that I have taken the time with my dad and my father-in-law to get them to write their story. And so they, we've used their company called Story Terrace.

And, um, what happens with that is that you have like a writer who interviews you. So a writer interviewed my dad and my father-in-law to understand the important things that happened in their lives and what they wanted to, um, tell us their story. And it's really interesting to see how that's unfolded.

And I've spoken about this before, uh, in podcast when, when we were kind of at the initial stages of it. But what's really interesting is to. To give free reign to somebody, almost to say, tell your life story and to see which bits of it they perceive to be really important mm-hmm. That they would want to share with, um, future generations.

So that's been really interesting, but, You know, and that's been nice to be able to go and to be able to give that to somebody else to do and just kind of not be a, a part of it almost. But, you know, reading the stories now and I was part of the kind of editing side of it and the photo gathering, so I definitely felt part of that process even though I didn't write anything.

I think that, um, It's just really nice to remember because, you know, depending on when you, you forget about, you don't know anything about, I don't know anything about my dad. Before he was, you know, I kind of, I was a child and that there was a whole life before me. Then I was a child, then I was a teenager who didn't care.

Then I had my own life. In my twenties, I only started to really sit up and pay attention. Probably in my thirties. And then there's a whole 40, 50 years gone by that I don't know anything about. And so it's nice to be able to understand that storytelling side of it. And of course, What that process did with story, with story terrorists is it encouraged us to have those conversations about it as well.

And you don't necessarily need to have story terrorists to do that, but it's important to start to instigate conversation about stuff and legacy and what's important to somebody. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? And so I think it's, You know, one of our, um, members, and we've done a podcast with Abby, haven't we?

Um, she's still one of our members today, and she had the most wonderful experience and still going through it at the moment with her mom and dad, who, um, they kept a lot of Asian artwork, didn't they? And so there was a lot of it. They collected it for many years and her and her. Sister spent half, I think half an hour or an hour every week going round to understand the stories behind the artwork.

So then they can keep the best of it. Um, and then understand, you know, when the, um, parents pass away, um, suddenly that they've got these things and they understand the story behind that. That's the most important thing. It's not the stuff, is it, it's the stories behind the stuff and why it's important to, why the, the person that's leaving it or the person that is, um, Getting that, you know, recently?

[00:21:53] Ingrid: Yeah. It's, it's the same with one of our members was sharing that she, uh, went home to visit her mom and her sister was there as well. And they went through all their, uh, the ch books that from, from when there were children and together they decided what can go, what needs to stay, uh, Is there anything important to you or to the mom or to ourselves?

And it's so nice to do this conversation and then they can do another something the next time they're visiting and another something the next time they're visiting. But it's, it helps the mom go through the items, but also for themselves to reminisce it, to chat and to have old stories come up. And you know, it's a wonderful way to remember, because I think sometimes we're so busy with.

Just life that we forget to remember the good times or the things that have happened. And, you know, it, it's, it's lovely to reminisce with somebody else as well and not having to do all that by yourself. 

[00:22:47] Lesley: Definitely. So it's all about that, um, storytelling, isn't it? And um, understanding, you know, obviously it's some things you know already, Dave, if you've grown up with that.

And they're special cause you remember them. But there's a lot of things, you know, there's a load of things that are come in between where you forget. Yeah. You know, there's things where, you know, when, when we were going through this, um, with my dad and my father were like, oh yeah, remember that now. Do you know what I mean?

It's just kind of gone, but it's very vivid in their minds. And then therefore it becomes important going forward. So it's just Bri, it's all about bridging this gap. And this provides the perfect opportunity because at the end of the day, our life quite often revolves around or has revolved. Or there are things that emote memories, um, through stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. Not always the memories are there, but quite often as people get older, it's the stuff that reignites those memories. Yeah. And that's important as it with the older generations. Yeah. So why don't we go to a break and then when we come back we can talk a little bit about how to kind of do it and things to think about.



[00:23:53] Ingrid: Hello everyone. Welcome back After your short break when Lesley and I are talking about creating a. Not an easy topic, Lesley. I'm gonna be honest with you. This is not easy stuff to talk about, but so important. So important. Yeah. We 

[00:24:11] Lesley: talked about having a kind of notebook for this project, so I think it really will evolve over time.

So what I'm gonna talk about now is like the practical of this, and so this is not like a one time project. This is just something that's probably gonna be with you for the rest of your life, isn't it? Mm-hmm. But I think it's important to get the basics right, isn't it? So as you, you know, we talked about creating like broad categories and then at some point obviously we're gonna go, okay, let me take a look at my jewelry.

Let me take a look at my photographs. I mean, these are all gonna be sentimental items. Yeah. And so let me look at all these things. Like, lemme, you know, let me look at my books and think whether there are any books that I'd like to pass on. Let me look at my record collection from the 1940s and see if there's anything that I want to pass on.

All of these things, so we're gonna get to a point where we actually drill down a little bit on the categories as, uh, categories of items that we've identified. But I think it's important to start to put some practicalities in motion as an Ingrid. So if you have got somebody specific in mind to be the beneficiary.

Beneficiary, that's, that's a hard word to say. Yeah. Yeah. The beneficiary of these things, make sure that's written down somewhere. So I know in the UK when you make a will, you don't necessarily put in it. This thing's going to that person and this thing's going to that person. Um, you have like what's called a chattel of wishes at the end, where that's where you kind of write down kind of more smaller things, I think.

Yeah. I dunno. The billards legal people, that's what we've done anyway. So the will takes care of the kind of, Basic of who's getting the house and who's getting the whatever and the money and the blah blah, blah, blah. Um, but then the chuckle of wishes is where it starts to go into a little bit more detail about individual things.

And we haven't really gone there yet to think about what those might look like. Cause we don't intend, I'm going anywhere anytime soon. Do you know what I mean? One of us does. The other one will still be around, hopefully. Um, do you know what I mean? So we're not quite there yet. We're thinking about that.

But I think if you have got something specific in mind, or if you've discussed something also possible, my kids would've, no, not a bother of them going to their grandparents and saying, when you die, I want that. Do you know what I mean? Not in a mery way, but in a, in a kind of nice way, but making, do you know what I mean?

I think Yeah, I like that honesty. Yeah. Because that's provides clarity doesn't it? Might not happen. Yeah. But it does provide clarity. Yeah. You know, so if there is something that you would love, From somebody that's very important to you. Perhaps now's the time to have that conversation to say, look, grandma or mom or whatever, I've always loved this and if, if there was one thing that I would want to remind me of you, this is what would be it.

Mm-hmm. And so it works both ways. So it's not just thinking about what you wanna leave, it's also the time to be honest. But we should be able to have those honest conversation. Cause as you said right at the beginning, Ingrid, one thing in life that's as surety is that we're gonna die at some point. 

[00:27:05] Ingrid: Yeah.

And you know what, Lesley, we are still all talking about this, that these are things are being done with a family that gets along most of the time. I mean, can you imagine if you, if you've got a lot of, you know, problems in your family with, with the will and who's getting the money, especially when there's normally lots of money involved, all of a sudden people get really all into it.

But, you know, if that can be, if, if the person. Who, who is going to at some point die, can give some clarity to everybody else, to this item was, I really want that person to have, that can help a lot and that still might not mean that everybody will agree about it, but at least there's something on paper that can help with that process.

Yeah, definitely. 

[00:27:51] Lesley: I think the problem is we, you know, we deal with quite a lot, don't we, Ingrid of, of kind of those kind of scenarios like family mediation and things like that. I think the one was, it's all people are just a little bit nervous. People feel a little bit embarrassed to say what they want, don't they?

And then there's just all this kind of sometimes resentment that goes on like, oh well, you know, it's likes, it's like Sibling re Well they've al, you've always preferred such a body and they've always done that. And then you've got their, well, I did this and I looked after Mum for years and you were abroad in Australia and you know, you've got all of these things, which means that everything is not equal in people's eyes in terms of.

You know, the way PE parents thought about their children, perhaps the, um, amount of caring for the parents that happened, the amount of financial support that may have happened. There are lots of things later in life that means there's a huge disparity Yeah. Between what each child has done for the parent, and that then sometimes creates inequity and.

Complex. I'm glad I'm an only 

[00:28:55] Ingrid: child. But Yeah, and, and I think, I mean, if I look at my family, a lot of my family didn't have a lot. Yeah. So, you know, that was easy. But now we've got lots more stuff. So it creates a lot. It can create a lot more problems, 

[00:29:16] Lesley: I think. You know, I think that, Probably the most important thing.

And not that I'm any, um, you know, expert in these matters, but I think if you can have open dialogue about these things, it's gonna be a lot easier. Yeah. So I would say think about that within your legacy as well. Not, not leaving something behind that's potentially going to be explosive. You know, so you might have this family that kind of all gets along really quite nicely and is all, you know, while there's a focal point in a family, like a, you know, a dad or a mum or whatever, and then all of a sudden it all goes so horribly wrong when that focal point is gone and the glue that stuck that family together all of a sudden is gone.

It's really sad, isn't it? Yeah, I, I said, you know, but, but that's the reality of what it looks like. Yeah. But if you can try and create something that explains your rationale for doing what you did. In your will or who you pass things onto or your legacy or whatever it is that you're talking about. Yeah.

I feel that, that your, are you, you've got a chance then to be involved in the discussion with the different family members to kind of fan down the flames a little bit. Yeah. And so it's complex, you know what I mean? And you know, every family is different. So much complexity within it. But I do believe that communication, as with most things, is going to pave the way.

Yeah. To. Simplicity and calm a little bit more than perhaps if the communication has not been there. Cause people don't like to be taken by surprise. There's so many people, Ingrid, who are left with nothing when they thought they were gonna get half or, and then of course it, it causes huge amounts of resentment and then it means that, Siblings fall out and you know, it's complex.

I know. Why are we even talking about this on a decluttering podcast? 

[00:30:59] Ingrid: I know. I know. We're just like, deal with this stuff. But as always, it's the emotions connected to the stuff, what we talk about all the time, it's all the emotions. And whether that's your own stuff or stuff in your family or from your parents.

It all has to be dealt with and, and, and sorted through and, and some items might be a lot easier to do than other items, but if, if the person who stuff it is can help along the way a little bit, even from after they've passed it, it can really, really help. And, um, and I think that's the Swedish debt cleaning book, which we mentioned is, is also thinking about you need to think about what's gonna happen.

Is there stuff here as well that you think is nobody's business? Well, if that's the case, you need to make sure that it is sorted through decluttered, shredded out of your house before the time comes. Because if there are things that you are like, hmm. Yeah, that's, that's history that nobody needs to know about.

Then you need to take action yourself. 

[00:32:04] Lesley: So if you found a box that said, don't open this after someone had passed. Gone, Ingrid. Oh, can you imagine finding a box that said, this is my kind of private, most private thoughts. I wanted to keep it while I was alive, but now that I pass, please destroy. 

[00:32:23] Ingrid: Oh, Lesley, you're really putting me on a moral dilemma here.

I think. I dunno. Uh, I, that would be, uh, Oh my God. I'm a very curious and nosy person. Oh, I'll probably give it to my husband and he would go, right, let's, let's, let's throw this away. He would be very good. I would probably be a in a wrench over it for months. 

[00:32:44] Lesley: I know Steve's completely black and white, so there'd be absolutely no, like why are you even thinking about opening something that somebody has said that they don't want you to open?

Yeah, same. I'm just being honest here. I think I would go down the. I need to respect the person's wishes. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I think there'd be a little part of me that's like desperate to see what's inside. 

[00:33:02] Ingrid: So I was like, you know 

[00:33:04] Lesley: what I mean? So they're never gonna know. 

[00:33:08] Ingrid: Yeah. I would be, I, I, I, I would say, I wish they would've thrown it away earlier, and I, I would not have had this, but I think I'm the same in the end.

Of course, I would not, I would respect if, if somebody says, do not open this box. This is not of your business. I would not, but I it would be. But wow, that would be like very, you always be wondering, you'd always 

[00:33:29] Lesley: be wondering, wouldn't they? It leaves you with a can. 

[00:33:31] Ingrid: What was in the books? 

[00:33:33] Lesley: Yeah. So my dad said to me when he was writing this book with story terrace, well, there might be things that you find out about me that you, that you don't like, and I'm like, Oh my God, what's he doing?

You know what I mean? Like, what's that like? I like, what, what is it? There's like nothing in that book and well, you know what? I'm like, it's just normal life. That's not like, you know, something like illegal or whatever. 

It's like nothing. It's just like building it up to nothing but of doubt. And I definitely would leave those things, um, untouched and unread, but I still think I'll be like, Ooh, thought was in there.

Do you know what I mean? 

[00:34:09] Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. But you know what, it can be so interesting, because I remember, I think it was young, my husband's grandfather who wrote a book about his own life, well, I think his, one of his daughters helped him with the writing. But, um, they, they had like stories about, because they lived in a farm close to the eastern border over the second World war.

And, you know, I mean, I say they had people hiding in their attics and things like that. I'm gonna have to reread that now. I'm gonna, I I'm like, Do I remember this song? It's been years and years and years. It must have been 15 years since I read it and now you've remembered me. I'm gonna read that again because it was fascinating.

Whole different time. 

[00:34:47] Lesley: I think. Do you know what I think that to crossover generations like that, that's the thing that you don't want to be lost, isn't it? People's story. Yeah. And that's what this is all about really. So in fact, you know, what we haven't spoken about is, is your legacy actually. Nothing apart from the stories.

Yeah. Do we actually need stuff as a legacy? Do we need that at all? So my thoughts are probably, there are a couple of things in people's lives that will bring up those memories and remind you of happy times, and that's the purpose of that stuff. But if I think about my dad, there's, I can absolutely categorically assure you there's not a single thing in his flat that I would.

Take That would remind me of, of him that I would want to remind me. So that's why I'm really glad that I've got the book because he, he was, he wasn't really about stuff. He's not really got any kind of valuable stuff, so there's kind of nothing, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. You know, he's got cardigans that he would wa wear relentlessly.

And actually I'd be glad to see him go in the bin to be fair, but keep hold of him. You're like, you're still wearing that there. 

Like, God, you know what I mean? And that sounds really mean, but that's what, but I don't need his stuff to remember him, you know, you know to mean. And so, but I am glad that I've got the book Yes.

Which. Which just captures his personality. If ever I want to, you know, if I need those memories, then, uh, you know, that that will be what, um, what is, I think perhaps that was because I knew that he didn't have any stuff. Mm-hmm. That would give me those memories. Yeah. Yeah. So, I don't know. And it is tricky.

It's a tricky conversation. Have we given anybody any, have we just gone back and forth though the how hard it would be? Or have we actually given some practical advice? 

[00:36:31] Ingrid: Well, I hope so. I think, I think for me, the main thing is, Is to start thinking about it and not be afraid to have those conversations and maybe go to your, uh, your mom, your dad, or maybe your brother or sister or your own kids, like kids.

You know, at some point we're all getting much older, but you know, we are all, you know, there's also lots of people who, who pass away suddenly quickly of all the kinds of horrible illnesses. What do you see happening here? What's important for you? And not just leave it and leave it and leave it. It's part of life.

Just like people being born, people will, will, will pass away and I'm, I'm glad I'm having some of these conversations with my mom as well. I. Uh, also because she, she was very poorly when my dad was already very poorly. She's, she's okay. I mean, she's 81, bless her heart, you know, she's tagging in there. But, uh, we, we try to have these conversations when I, when, when I visit or when I'm on Zoom with her, or, because of course she's in the Netherlands and I'm here.

So I don't see her as much in impression as I would like. When you, it would be probably maybe easier to do these conversations than on Zoom going, mom should tell me a story from like earlier and let me record it. 

[00:37:45] Lesley: Because, so yeah. Cause sometimes these conversations just happen, don't they? Yeah. When you're not expecting them.

So just start social gathering or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And that's when you kind of need to, to think about these things. Yeah. Um, but you know, you and I don't have any pro, you know, the job that we do, we don't have difficulty having difficult. Yeah, conversations. That's what we do as part of a job.

We ask our clients some of these questions as well about what's important to them and stuff. So you know, it come as no surprise that I've got no problem talking to my father-in-law and my dad about. You know, wills and stuff and do you know what I mean? It's like, it's not difficult for me to do that, but I know it's difficult for the people.

Cause it feels a lot of people think, don't wanna go there mentally and think about that and don't wanna suggest that they're thinking about that either. You know, you don't wanna start talking to your, your dad or your father-in-law about the fact that they're potentially gonna pass away soon. That's a difficult conversation, I know.

Been a difficult concept to think about. 

[00:38:39] Ingrid: I think a lot of people think that by talking about it, you wish people. But I think it, it's actually completely the wrong way around. I think by talking about it, you make something that's, that's very hard to talk about discussable and, and, and do more in, in the right way.

[00:38:58] Lesley: I think when people are, I, I mean my sort of experience of my um, um, sort of the older generation is that there comes a point at which mortality is expected. Does that make sense? And so they start to, you know, My father-in-law is going to three funerals a week. Do you know what I mean? And so he is very aware of his own mortality that that might happen at any point.

And so doesn't have any problem discussing that and talking about it. Mm-hmm. We still find it very sad. It's not something that I say it's an easy conversation, but it's not because I don't want it to happen, but I've not got any problem with dealing with the practicalities. Mm-hmm. Because I think that getting the practicalities sorted out is gonna help what happens afterwards.

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I, I think that's it. So, So, yeah. So yeah, not really the, um, very banter conversation that JMD317 was expecting Ingrid from us. But, um, I think it's an important conversation to have. Yeah. Even if it, somebody out there thinks, you know what? I've been putting that off so much and why don't I spend a little bit of time, you know, talking to my mom about something nice that happened to her, or trying to go back into her memories and understand a little bit more, or, you know, think about the kinds of stuff or say to my mom, Do you know what?

I really love that thing in your house. I would love that as a memory of you when you're not here and stuff like that. And so I think it's things like that. Yeah. But yeah, I, I guess, you know, I'm not ready for that yet in my, um, sort of mid fifties. Um, and that might be a mistake, but who knows? Who knows? I would imagine it's something that probably comes later.

[00:40:31] Ingrid: Yeah. We will see. Well, I hope this podcast is really helpful and has given you food for thought. This is not, maybe the action is. Try and find the notebook. Try and find the notebook, and just maybe make a little list, do a bit of pondering and thinking about this. Let us know. We really, 

[00:40:53] Lesley: we've got into the deepest, darkest things and all we can say is, Find a notebook and create a little list where we've said this is gonna take decades to put together.

[00:41:02] Ingrid: Exactly. Well, maybe we ended to start somewhere, Lesley, so, um, but maybe I would love, we'd love to, for you to share your thoughts with us, so, um, Decla help.com/two four. We, you can leave a comment, um, or maybe leave us a review and, and tell us how you felt about this podcast. I, I would be interested to know if this has resonated with anybody and if it's maybe touched a nerve or if you're like, wow, I had never even considered this yet and you've really made me think, or Ingrid and Lesley.

I cannot think about this yet, but. Okay. I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm on the, on the journey with you here, so, yeah. 

[00:41:42] Lesley: Interesting. You know what, I think a lot of people will think is like, oh my word, I've been meaning to make a will for the last 15 years, and I've not got around to it. So if that comes to the top of your list, that's important as well.

So, yeah. So yeah. Not one of our most fun podcasts ever. Ingrid, but important to, to get there. Yeah. And to think about it and to have those honest conversational. Thank you so much everybody for listening to us. Kind of ponder. We've definitely ponderous podcast. 

[00:42:09] Ingrid: Yeah. Well, thanks so much and we'll be back next week.

[00:42:15] Voiceover: Thanks so much for listening to the Declutter Hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode, and we'll see you next week.
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Jane says:

7 June 2023 at 12:11 PM

I am totally on board with this concept and has made me think more about what I have in my home and what will be left behind. I have ordered a copy of the Swedish death clearing book from the library. My mum is also decluttering her home right now with this concept in mind. I think it’s a sensible approach to take in life.

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  7 June 2023 at 2:42 PM
  
  Yes we agree! It's actually a gift to have a decluttered and organised home for those that are left behind. Thank you for sharing and if you need help with decluttering check out our wonderful membership.
  
  Reply
Barbara says:

3 June 2023 at 8:22 AM

Thank you for tackling this important area in your usual warm and friendly way. I was challenged by the idea of shredding those journals that have meant so much to me, but are private – and marked with a red dot to be shredded when I die. Perhaps I can re-read them and decide whether I am comfortable with family knowing more about who and what sustained me through dark days.
I am keeping a looseleaf notebook of photos of family heirlooms and the stories behind them.
This is one of your best ever podcasts – bringing in your own experiences and families, with sensitivity to different experiences of the generations.

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  5 June 2023 at 1:58 PM
  
  Thank you so much for your lovely comment Barbara and we're delighted you enjoyed this podcast so much. Your looseleaf notebook sounds amazing and feel free to share some photos of this in our fb group if you want. I'm sure it will inspire others as well.
  
  Reply
Episode 244 – How to create your lasting legacy

Episode 260 – How to get things done with a list

Episode 259 – 10 Organising products worth investing in

Episode 258 – The transition from young adult to home-maker with guest Penny Moyses

Episode 257 – Dealing with friends and family on your decluttering journey

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