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Episode 263 – Do I need this with guest Kate Schermerhorn

Do you ever ask yourself this question? “ Do I need this”? Well that is exactly what our guest today did and she made an award-winning documentary film about consumerism, excess and the stuff from which happiness is truly made. Listen in to find out more insights from our guest Kate Schermerhorn.

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Transcript of this podcast episode

00:00
Do you ever ask yourself this question? Do I need this? Well, that is exactly what our guest today did. And she made an award winning documentary film, about consumerism, access, and the stuff from which happiness is truly made. So a very warm welcome to our guest, Kate Schermerhorn

00:31
you're listening to the declutter podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts decluttering and organising your home. Now here's your host, Ingrid Jansen.

00:54
Hello, and welcome, listeners. I'm Ingrid. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find the fun factor in the serious business of decluttering. And if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast, it all takes place in our free Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm and supportive community. Go to declutter help.com, forward slash group to find out more. Yes, Kate, welcome. Thank you for being here.

01:33
It's nice to be across the world talking to you. You know what? I had the pleasure of seeing your documentary, do I need this at a private screening online a couple of months ago, I was so struck by it, I was so in awe of it. And I loved it so much that after the screening, I kind of immediately reached out to you, I think like a day later, like Kate, you need to come onto our podcast, you need to tell us or tell everybody around the world about your documentary, because it's so impactful. And it's just It was eye opening. I mean, I know, of course a lot about clutter and decluttering. But it was emotional as well. I find it a very emotional documentary. So thank you for being here and and telling us more more about it. You're welcome. I'm glad. I'm glad you had a chance to see it and that it resonated with you? Absolutely. Absolutely. So you are a documentary maker, you've done so many things for for television, you've done photobooks I mean, you've got all massive resume of things you've done. But what made you create this documentary? What What was the start of it all? Well, I've done a lot of things related to the things we buy. In my work, especially as a photographer, I did a project called useless objects where I looked at things that we buy that are sort of single use, not in terms of like a single use plate or a straw, but a single use item that you would buy for your house like a hot dog cooker, or you know, a bug vacuum. I don't know if they sell these in other parts of the world.

03:12
And I thought, you know, why can't you use a frying pan instead of a machine that's made specifically for cooking hot dogs? And it's something that I think a lot about, like why do we buy these things and what motivates us to buy them but then I started thinking about, well, how do they impact our lives, you know, once you buy that hot dog cooker, it's in your house, and it's taking up space and probably collecting dust and and how did these things impact us on a personal level, then I was really concerned about the waste associated with what we buy and the environmental impact of, of all of these things being created and then transported. And so I wanted to make what I was imagining a sort of sugar coated Environmental film that would help people think a little bit about what they buy and slow down their purchases. And so I started looking at other people I was not involved in this story. This was not about my life, because I'm not a huge consumer, I have a problem. I'm very attached to things that come into my life, but I don't like shopping much or you know, so. So I was thinking of other people. So I started interviewing other people about what what they buy and how it impacts their lives. And after I'd started that process, my own parent, my parents decided to downsize from a from their family home into a small assisted living apartment. And when that process started, all of a sudden, I was completely overwhelmed with the emotion attached to all of that stuff. I didn't want to let go of anything. And I thought, Okay, I'm part of this story. I need to turn the camera on my family and in the impact that all of this stuff

05:00
is having on my life personally. So so that film took a huge shift and became sort of half about other people and half about my family story. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, to be honest, your family features vary throughout the whole documentary. So how did you manage to get them all on board to do this for you? Because I mean, this was not something that was filmed, though, for a week was it? This was a long process. Yeah, the film took me start to finish about 10 years.

05:33
And that includes, I mean, that includes the Edit, editing time and in that, but my parents, I was surprised I could get my my mom on board, my dad, he would take any opportunity to be a showman of some kind. He used to do community theater, and he likes to be in front of the camera. My mother was very private. And so I was surprised that she got on board, but she seemed okay with it. And it was a great opportunity to I mean, I'm really grateful that they did allow me to film them and my kids, well, they didn't have any say.

06:12
But, but, you know, it's been a nice way of introducing my crazy family to the world. And I think it's the story seems to resonate a lot with people who've gone through what I went through of, you know, downsizing, and watching the late stages of your parents life, and and my mother also had dementia. So develop dementia over that time. So something a lot of people are going through. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I mean, that very much resonated with my own life. I mean, I've got the same with my father whose memory is deteriorating at rocket speed. So maybe, maybe that's why I touched a nerve as well. And it felt so personal. But I mean, your parents were honestly amazing. They were so open, and they were so lovely, as well, what lovely parents, I got really lucky with my parents, they're very interesting people. And my dad was, yeah, he was a serious adventure seeker.

07:14
And that all came across your, your documentary so well, as well, you know, how the life that they lived, and how each of them also, were so different when they were downsizing when they and how they reacted to the whole process? And how you and your, I think it was your brother, if I remember correctly, how the two of you are so different as well. Yeah, I mean, everybody, I guess, reacts to this process differently. My mother just was like she was, I just say, in the film, she was getting felt like she was getting her house in order, you know, getting everything sort of cleaned up from a lifetime of, of possessions and, and really became she wasn't attached to anything, you know, she just, Oh, why do I keep this stuff this, you know, these childhood? Why do I have these cards from when you were born, or what's the purpose of this stuff. And then my father, he also became very pragmatic in it and sort of realized he didn't want to burden me or my brother with all of this stuff. But at the same time, I think he did have a little part of him that knew that I was going to save it. So he was comforted probably by that, you know, he didn't really want to throw the things away. So, so I came in, I was the hero. Because I came in and saved everything, I wouldn't get rid of anything. And that became, you know, one of the big dilemmas, I thought I was, you know, saving all of these family. I mean, I was I was saving all the family memories, but with that I created, you know, a lot of problems for myself in terms of just overload. And, you know, if you have, if you keep everything, then nothing really has as much meaning because it's just a bunch of stuff, taking up your space, where if you curate it more carefully, which I've learned to do over time since making the film, you know, it has, you can appreciate things more. Yeah, it's really the quality over the quantity, isn't it? But to realize that when you're in the middle of let's face, it's quite a traumatic experience. I know it's what's your parents downsizing, but you were very much involved with them. And with the whole process, so you are probably seen as the rescuer of items as well. So whether maybe your mother and maybe your mother was more I'm going to do this because she possibly knew that you were going to try and save a lot of stuff and wanted to meet you. Yeah, there was one scene that didn't make it into the film of my dad and me. We were we were having a fight about saving family photos and, and he is throwing things in the garbage which I couldn't believe he was throwing photos away.

10:00
I mean, as a photographer, and you know, and someone attached to the past, I really didn't want him throwing away photos. But of course, how many family voted like, there are some, you know, that are not worth keeping. But I was digging in the trash trying to take out the photos, and he just said, What are you doing, like, if you keep, if you're gonna keep all this stuff, and you're not gonna let me throw this away, I'm gonna take it all and I'm gonna ship it to you, he's and you can put it in your garage. And then when your kids when you die, your kids can deal with it. And when I looked back at that, while I was editing it just, even though I couldn't put that scene in the film, it just, I think about it a lot, because I don't want to burden my children with all of my stuff. And I'm now motivated by that, you know, I trying to do at an earlier age, what my mom was doing, to, you know, just think about the things that are in my house and say, you know, what, if I die tomorrow, and then my children have to deal with this stuff. Like, I don't want that. I just don't want that. Yeah, interesting. So interesting. Because one of the scenes in the film, you were clearing out your own garage. So you could have all the stuff where your parents go into your garage, right? Yeah, I got a Yeah, the first time my garage was very full, to say the least, it was definitely not it was a disaster zone. And i When my parents started her, you know, clearing out their house, I, I, their stuff was nicer than the stuff I hadn't garage. In fact, the stuff in the garage was partly because I'd lived in England for seven years. And when I when I moved to England, I didn't bring anything, but I put all of my possessions into storage here in America. And then when I moved back from England, I lived there for seven years. So I built up a whole household of possessions. So I came back with, you know, a giant container full of stuff. And then, and then I took everything out of storage here. So I had so much stuff, nothing good fit in my house. So a lot of it ended up in my garage. So then when my parents started downsizing, I thought, Well, I would rather have their stuff than the things I found in England at car boot sales and whatnot. And so then I started purging the garage, only to make room for the stuff that belonged to them, which was ridiculous, of course. And then I filled the garage back up with all of their things because they couldn't fit in the house. Yeah, I'm absolutely fascinated by the whole story. Okay, let's take a quick break. I have so many more questions for you. So listeners, let's take a quick break. And we'll see you in a minute by everyone. Welcome back. I'm talking to Kate about her documentary do I need this? And

12:51
thank you for being so honest and open. I mean, I know of course, she did that in your documentary as well. But just hearing it from you now firsthand. It's just, I think so many people, our listeners will resonate with what you're saying, you know, they also have garages full of stuff that needs to be sorted out. And they also worry about when their parents need to downsize, or when they unfortunately, probably at one point pass away. What are they going to do with all this stuff? So I'm sure there's a lot of people who are nodding along with you go Yeah, I know exactly how you feel? Well, I know that there's a lot of shame associated with excess stuff, you know, people are really ashamed of their houses. And, of course, well, there's somebody in the film who she describes her issue as a Clutter Clutter problem. Others might describe it as hoarding, but she describes it herself as a clutter issue. And, you know, her life was completely changed by having such an excess. I mean, she can't walk through the house for the for the mess, and the clutter in the dining room table is piled, you know, three feet above the table with clothes or and she used to she describes in the film how she used to give dinner party, she was amazing cook and that she just loved having people over to her house. And with all of this stuff. She hasn't had anybody in her house, she couldn't remember the last time she did had somebody enter her house, just for the shame of all of that stuff. And she she chose to be in the film. Because she felt like she wanted to sort of out herself and stop holding the secret of all of her stuff. And she that she hoped that she could help other people you know, would their clutter and overload by exposing her own story. Yeah, that's what I think I liked about as well so much about your documentaries that you have so many different types of guests. You have indeed a person with a very full house. You've got I think a lady that we saw were 30 different outfits.

15:00
Think a different show up you have of course, a B Johnson, who is who has like a one jar of trash per year. So you really, I think, show different sides, didn't you? Yeah, I tried to get I do like when I'm making a film to have some extremes. So I went from the really extreme house that I just described to Yeah, baya Johnson who has she doesn't buy anything new, twice a year, she'll go shopping at the thrift store for clothes, but she has, you know, like seven outfits or something. And she in a year's time, yeah, she fills it a mason jar full of rubbish. And that's all she had, like for an entire family of four. One of the characters that I love, really love in the film was there's a monk, a Buddhist monk that I met. And, you know, I went to talk to him about attachment. And you know, the issue of attachment. It's so hard when you get attached to stuff. And I don't want to give it away. But turns out that he also has a little shopping problem himself. So that was a moment of filmmaking moment where I thought I would die of happiness when he showed me that we're, you know, that we all suffer from this problem of having too much stuff. Yeah, I think you know, what, I think it's been the messaging as well, for such a long time, isn't it, that we, we get so many marketing messages every day everywhere, to buy more, and very rarely, we're so used to it, it's and it's been made easier and easier. You know, by all these everything online, you can just in the olden days, you just actually had to drive in your car, or your bicycle or walk somewhere to buy something. But now you just click click click away online, and it's there waiting for you even thought about it, or you forgotten about it. You ordered this there already. So yeah, we were being conditioned to buy all the time. Yeah, but I love the Dutch

17:01
presenter here, saying that you go on your bicycle.

17:08
we'd all go on our bicycle to buy. But but it's true. I mean, you know what I really hope that I hope for the film, and it seems like it's happening with audiences who write to me after watching it is that people are sort of slowing down and say and asking themselves, you know, do I really need this? I know that myself, after making this film, I can't buy anything without really asking myself do I need this i I mean, I never have been a big shopper. But the rate with which things come into my house now has slowed to a an extreme, you know, extreme kind of halt. I just don't like to bring things in because you realize, once they're in your house, it's so hard for them to leave again. You know, it's like they've they've entered the door and then getting rid of them. It's just so much more time consuming. And I always think of it as gaining weight, you know, when you gain a lot of weight, and then it just comes on the pounds just pile on if you don't think about it, and then trying to lose the weight.

18:16
takes so much effort. It's the same with stuff. You know, it's like it just comes in if you don't think about it, and then having it go out, you know, who has time to deal with all that stuff? Leaving again? Yeah, for sure. And then the waste of it all? Yeah, yeah. Ditch when you interviewed your, your your guests on your documentary, that for example, be at Johnson did she make you kind of go wow, that's maybe very extreme what she does, but I understand did it change the way you saw things? Well, they are Johnson was so extreme the way she lives, I definitely didn't leave there thinking oh, I'm going to live like a zero. I'm going to turn my house into a zero waste household. Although I have reduced my waste, for sure. But I don't know if there was anybody I met in the film who I thought oh, this is my kind of style of fur. This is what I need to do in my own life. It was more Yeah, no, I don't think that that that happened so much as much as just spending 10 years thinking about stuff and all the experts that I talked to and you know, just all the information that was coming in made me and then I couldn't help but examine the way the stuff was impacting my own life. Yeah, not just because I was living it but because then I was watching it through the editing process over and over again. Yeah. And when you do that, you can't help but I know you put a you put a magnifying glass or your own life into you when you examined it and it was not just something that you would see but you would be confronted because you would be in your work to get this documentary out. And of course, all the stuff from your mom and dad

20:00
who unfortunately, both passed away during the filming ended up being put in your garage for you to deal with? Yeah, yeah, now I've given myself sort of a rule that the things that, you know, I've transferred everything into the house that I've wanted to keep, and, you know, I live with the things that I want. And now I tell myself, like, you know, you can't just keep something for some later time when you're going to fix a broken chair, or you're going to finish you know, a painting or whatever it might be like that I don't allow myself to keep I say, either you're going to do it, now you're going to fix that broken chair, or you're going to, you know, finish that project, or it has to go like waiting, and dreaming of this future time when you know, things are going to be different, you will have different priorities than so I do get rid of things. You know, with that in mind. I love that. I love that I occasionally say because when I ask people, so what Why are you keeping this? Oh, just in case or when I needed one day, and I didn't kind of say but one day is not a day of the week, you know, one day does not exist? And why would you not use all of the nice stuff now? I'm going to keep it for best, but surely the best is now. Whatever you waiting for, for all the stars to align, winning the lottery, having everything is that the best? Are you then going to pull it out and go? This is the best. Because you don't realize sometimes that when the best is and it might be the best that was last week and you miss stage. You know what I mean? And it may be the best will come up again. But who knows when that is? Yeah. And I think it's the same when you said, I'm going I'm curating my house because I don't want to give this whole burden to my kids as well. You know, we don't we don't know when that happens. And then life is short and uncertain.

22:00
Yeah, and, you know, so why wait for the you know, that future possibility when you can be living now. Thank you so much. I've got a question, though. Who was that beautiful lady behind you in that with a yellow dress? I mean, it's such a standout painting. Is that you? Or is it your mom? Or unlike intrigues? That's my grandmother, she founded the first first halfway house for people coming coming out of psychiatric hospitals. And now there are 350 of them around the world. It's called fountain house.

22:37
Anyway, I got a copy of that painting made for fountain house and I had a copy for here. Wow, that is absolutely it's beautiful. And I think I spotted it as well, when we did the screening. And I was like, if I want a chance to ever talk to you, I'm going to ask because it's like That sounds so the original of that painting is in a in a museum in in Florida. But so that's a copy of somebody. I know you do have a very interesting family, don't you Kate? I mean, when she went now your grandmother now that I know that and after seeing, especially your dad as an adventurer, he did some very, very interesting things, didn't he? And you shared a couple of bits about that as well. So yeah, he used to go dog sledding in the in the Arctic every year throughout his 60s and 70s. Up until he was in his late 70s. He made it all the way to the North Pole with two broken or three broken ribs, frostbite and pneumonia, but he made it Oh, wow, it's Wow, that's that's a lot of family history to keep to keep track of but thank you for sharing. I really, really enjoyed our conversation. Please tell our listeners how they can see this too, because I was lucky enough to be attending a private screening for this. But please tell me this will see the world this will where will it show at some point? Yeah, so people can go onto our website for more information, which is do I need this.org We're hosting private screenings around the country so you can get it or sorry, around the world, for that matter, starting here in the US. And we you know, and and overseas, both people can host their own screenings by getting in touch with us. And then next year in 2024, the film will be on public television here in the United States. And then you know, then we're looking at international distribution after that. Absolutely amazing. I really hope that that happens for you because I think it's a must see it's so fascinating. It's so interesting. And so yeah, like I said before, very emotional. So thank you Kate for taking the time out to talk to us. I know we're on a massive time difference. You're it's evening for me, it's the morning for you. But we made it work and I appreciate your time so much. So listeners how do you feel about this conversation that I had just with with Kate, do you ask her ever? Do you ever ask yourself do

25:00
I need this before acquiring something. I would love for you to tell us I'm interested to hear what made you sit up and go, Wow, that's such a great thing that Kate mentioned or Yeah, I feel this too. I have a feeling we're gonna have lots of comments and emails coming in about this podcast. And of course, as you know, declutter hub.com, forward slash 263, please let us know. So thank you, Kate, for your time and for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you.

25:33
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hop podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player, so you don't miss an episode. And we'll see you next week.

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Debbie says:

13 October 2023 at 8:31 PM

Thanks for having Kate on to talk about her movie. Do I need this? That was the exact question I repeatedly asked myself after my father passed and we were going through his house. Do I need this? I told myself I would do my best not to put things in a memory box that was just going to sit on a shelf or in the basement. If I took something it was to be used or displayed openly to be seen regularly. I realize that with time I will probably have to ask myself again do I need this? Because over time I will be able to let more go and prioritize. Most importantly I will need to let more go because I cannot leave my daughter with all this stuff. Particularly things that meant something to me because I was in my parents house growing up and saw them regularly. She does not know what these things are and if it isn't extremely important and has some family history, then I don't want to burden her with keeping them. Hopefully by having them in my home out and displayed, they won't be a burden they will be something she is attached to also and knows the story behind.

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1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  19 October 2023 at 4:02 PM
  
  Thank you for sharing Debbie and for being mindful of the items your daughter will have to deal with one day. It's so important to think about these things while we're alive.
  
  Reply

Episode 263 – Do I need this with guest Kate Schermerhorn

Episode 341 – 10 things to consider when selling your house

Episode 340 – Tackling cardboard boxes – both empty and full

Episode 339 – A developing ADHD Journey with Lesley’s son, Luke

Episode 338 – 10 things you probably don’t know about Ingrid and Lesley

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