Episode 50 – Guest expert, Nicki Munns discusses downsizing

In this podcast, Lesley talks to Nicki Munns, from Kent based All-Organised, about the increase in people downsizing their homes from a larger property to a smaller one. Downsizing is becoming increasingly popular but it can be a hugely overwhelming task for people to tackle the project alone. People are turning to specialist downsizing companies to help them manage the task - from decluttering to administrative tasks to working out suitability of furniture.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The declutter hub podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host, professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

Lesley  0:26  
Hello and welcome listeners to Episode 50 of the declutter Podcast. I'm Lesley if you have clutter and want to sort it out. This is the show for you. In today's episode, I am delighted to be talking to Nikki mons from all organised based in Kent and we are going to be discussing downsizing. So Nick is a specialist in all aspects of organising and decluttering and we regularly see each other at the annual conference for professional organisers in London. Over the past few years, there's been a huge rise in the number of people wanting to downsize. So with our colleague Heidi, they offer specific downsizing services in partnership with a senior move partnership. Nikki honed her people skills working in human resources for the European arm of an international accountancy firm, before leaving to have her children and raise her family. Whilst raising a family. She pursued her love of home renovation and developed a slight obsession with Kevin Macleod, and anything on the TV associated with derelict properties. Nikki and Heidi's company all organised was formed over eight years ago, a family member came over visited Nikki from the states and told her all about her decision to change her career to become a professional organiser. And then Nikki thought that will be a great idea for her to pursue as well. And the rest, as they say is history. So welcome, Nikki. Hi, Lesley. Thanks so much for joining us. Today we wanted to talk about downsizing because it's so popular at the moment, we really are hearing about people downsizing and typically downsizing much younger than they used to. So what sorts of things do you think are the main reasons why people are starting to downsize at the moment?

Nikki  2:04  
I think a lot of it's to do with the perception of the retirement development developments themselves. There were lots of them and almost like five star hotels now, the perception of it being an old people's retirement home doesn't really stand true anymore. I think they're looking to have a new chapter in their lives, easy to look up and leave get away on holiday Have a nice time. socializer less cleaning.

Lesley  2:30  
So it's definitely not that kind of as you say, it's not that old people's retirement properties because I know my dad's in a retirement property. And people are moving in there from 55 Now, so a lot of them are from 55. But woods, aren't they? I mean, some of them might even be younger than that. But I know the ones that are around here are definitely 55 plus and so that's young, that's depressing, because that's only four years away from me. But hey, I'm gonna be downsizing. So yeah, no, it isn't. And people are wanting to sort of grasp life a little bit more and live a little and you don't want to be sort of burdened down with your home. Do you?

Nikki  3:02  
Absolutely. Yes. No, it's it's it's definitely a sea change in it. We're seeing I think probably on last year, we've had about a 50% uplift on on Enquirer's.

Lesley  3:12  
So the senior move partnership then that you work in conjunction with so you work for them. So they basically facilitate people downsizing? Because it's a really difficult process, isn't it to go down because standard decluttering is difficult enough in itself, moving house is difficult enough in itself. But when you've got to downsize, you really have to pare down your belongings hugely, don't you? And it's a very different process, isn't it then if there is such a thing as standard decluttering?

Nikki  3:38  
No, absolutely. The The reason the scene, or one of the reasons the senior partnership was set up was that quite often people want to relocate to be nearer to their children or other family members. And working as part of this fabulous team, we're actually able to cover a move from Scotland to Kent, which I'm doing in a couple of weeks time. So my colleague in Scotland will help and I'll help listen. So it actually provides a very rounded service.

Lesley  4:10  
So obviously, you work for SR move Partnership, which is absolutely fantastic. But there are a lot of people who haven't got the benefit of working with a company like yours, and they have to go through that downsizing process themselves. So what sorts of things do you typically do and what sort of things would people need to look at in order to downsize themselves?

Nikki  4:29  
So what we do we have a quite an in depth conversation when a new inquiry comes in, and it's key for us to actually identify the biggest areas of need and worry. So having done that, we have a good chat with the clients. They might say, I've got you know, five outbuildings but I don't know what to do with full of tools and garden equipment. They spend lives on allotments and you know, growing things, other clients, it's just, you know, they can't deal with the actual thoughts. Having to deal with the utilities companies or changing their TV provider over them. So it's very personalised service. So, you know, we fit in where the client needs us most.

Lesley  5:11  
Because it is an overwhelming job, isn't it? As we say, so moving houses, overwhelmingly sad. decluttering is overwhelming on its own. And if you've got all those, and you, you know, and you move in area as well, so you go right out of your comfort zone it from everything you've known, and a lot of people have when they're downsizing, they've been in that family home for 3040 50 years, sometimes.

Nikki  5:31  
It's right, yeah. Now that my longest client had been in 70 years, he's actually stayed in his family home.

Lesley  5:38  
Yeah. And that's a huge wrench, isn't it? Because as you know, as well as the practical stuff that you need to do this, the emotional journey that you need to go on, it's a big decision for people to make to do that downsize. And I think a lot of people now and certainly in my experience, they're wanting to make that decision for themselves, rather than that decision be forced upon them. So they want to move into a retirement property while they're still able to do that, rather than when they need to fall ability issues, or disability or whatever that might be.

Nikki  6:04  
No, I think it's a very good plan. If you've got the foresight to do that. Some people do leave it too long, and it becomes really quite arduous, then I think a lot of people are thinking one step ahead. And even though there's a lot to do, they see the benefits of actually doing it sooner rather than later, when they're in reasonable health, they can still enjoy themselves.

Lesley  6:28  
And there's some fabulous places out there, as you say, some of them are like five star hotels, aren't they? It is that nice lock up and leave, it's very safe, very secure, someone's doing a garden for you quite often, there might be a warden in there that's helping you if you need to that there's so many benefits isn't the two moving into retirement communities, and as a community, as well as a community as well. And that's, and that's not to be taken lightly. So obviously, you do the practical side of things. For downsizing, so specific to downsizing itself. What sort of things do you feel that people struggle with most?

Nikki  7:04  
For ladies, it's quite often in the kitchen area, because they've spent so you know, lifetime cooking big family meals, doing big dinner parties and entertaining. So generally, in retirement flats, or apartments, the kitchens are that little bit smaller, because they want to have all the more cars there for their clients. They've got washing machines and fridges and freezers but it does come down on the available cupboard space. So generally, I spend quite a lot of time with my clients actually working out what will feasibly fit. And encouraging them to use all their lovely China and crystal and not not keep it the best. So get rid of the chip, delete stuff and use anything that's

Lesley  7:53  
so that's a good time. So that's something that you actively do. So people have been keeping these dinner services for a rainy day. And so rather than take the sort of chips white Chinese, so why don't we use this lovely Royal Doulton set. I know in my dad's property, the kitchen is tiny, I'm not gonna lie, it's absolutely tiny. But never. So you just have to really pare down and I think when you are downsizing, the the the decisions that you make are very different are the standard decluttering, because you are forced into making decisions based on the space that you've got around you. So that's different to a lot of people who tend to move to the same size of house or something that's bigger.

Nikki  8:29  
Yes, I think so. Also, you know, I think we're all guilty of that, especially in kitchens that you see a new gadget and think, Oh, I could use that. But you know, the practical nature of it is that sometimes we do only use things once a year. And actually do you really want to take it in general become a space where this is working out what is practical, because lots of ladies still bake and you know, make lots of cakes for their Wi Fi. So if that's important, and something that's still active in doing them, you know, we make the call that that is what's important. dialogue with the clients is key. Find out what's important to them, and then you make the rational decisions on you know, their wishes.

Lesley  9:10  
Yeah. And then there is going to need to be compromising there isn't there. So there's a chance isn't that in your new retirement property that you're not going to be doing the sort of inviting your whole family round for Sunday lunch or something like that, that you used to do. I'm not saying you definitely can't do that. But that's probably going to be less likely than it was when you were sitting in a four or five bedroom house, the family home and so it's almost that you have to close certain chapters of your life, I think, isn't it and that can be very difficult for some people to say goodbye to a part of your life that's made you really happy it's not it's not an easy thing to do, is it?

Nikki  9:43  
No, it isn't. Lots of my clients are actually saying you know when we're talking about if I'm going to entertain them all I'll actually just take them down for lunch because lots of places have lovely restaurants now. So you know they have drinks up in their apartments and then to lock down to the rest rather

Lesley  10:02  
than cooking for 10 people, that's for sure. So quite often, when I've worked with people that are downsizing myself, a lot of it is about the furniture that they've got.

Nikki  10:11  
That's right. And that can be quite problematic because a lot of people actually can't visualise space and how their belongings will actually fit into a new home. So we've actually got software that we use, and we're able to put a plan together, and we're going to measure the furniture, and we can drop it onto the plan. That also gives us a 3d view if if we need it. And then the client can see very easily if something's going to fit or not, because some of the time there's mobility issues, and you don't want to leave it 10 centimetres between them, sharp edge of the table. And a soft chair. So is to make sure the flow of the house actually works as well as it is actually fitting in.

Lesley  11:00  
Yeah, so now's definitely the time to look at that furniture and see whether it's the most sensible furniture for you to take with you, isn't it? So people themselves actually, if they've not got, I mean, that's brilliant, you know, to have kind of floor plans. And then you've got spatial awareness, which is fantastic. I mean, a lot of the time, the problem that we have as well is that retirement properties kind of show homes are staged, aren't they. And so they strip out the furniture and make to make it look more spacious. And so if you're not somebody who's visually spatially aware, you can struggle with that, because it looks as if it's a really spacious room. But actually, once you start putting your stuff in, it's even worse. And so we have to be mindful of that as well, don't we? So I guess you can, you know, if you've not got this computer software, which will be really useful that you can use, you can just go make sure you measure your furniture, measure the depth of it, so it doesn't come too far into the room. Maybe if you have got a three piece we think about just taking two chairs, or just taking the cell from one chair. So for fitting some of the furniture along the way. And it's a hard decision, isn't it? Because people are very low that the to split up three piece suite split, if that makes sense. Most people

Nikki  12:06  
are quite pragmatic about it. And sometimes I go into couples and offer the service. And the wife will say to me, Well, no, no, we mustn't take that job away from my husband, he's really enjoying that and let you know, do it the old fashioned way with a piece of graph paper. And to be honest, when we started doing it, that's what we did as well.

Lesley  12:23  
There's definitely other alternatives. I know in the retirement properties that I've worked in, they do have a kind of normally a great cupboard a lot of the furniture has built in, isn't it, they tend to have these really nice big kind of hole cupboards it look as if they're going to house everything and anything and everything. So what do you think about the storage that you typically see in retirement properties?

Nikki  12:45  
They change from development, development, I think they're, most of the developers now putting in good storage, I'm always very honest with my client about what I feel will fit. So in, I give them my best advice, because it's not a magic cupboard walls desk span. So you know that they're very handy. And they provide a good storage as long as people aren't realistic about what they can actually fit in.

Lesley  13:12  
Yeah, and it is about that realism. And it's really about trying to because quite often we keep things dealt with from the past or for the future, you know, in houses. And so it really is about living in the present, isn't it and only having those things that are going to kind of serve your current life. And so you do have to be honest enough with yourself to sort of say goodbye to certain chapters of your life, now's not the time to start keeping things for your family for the future. If they want those things, then they're going to have to take them now, aren't they?

Nikki  13:38  
No, exactly. I always think it's lovely if the family do want to take, you know, possessions that are no longer needed. But also, I think everyone should be mindful that your kids don't always want new stuff

Lesley  13:48  
is an interesting one. Because I think, typically, you know, older people, the quality of the stuff was great, wasn't it and so it's hard to get rid of it. And so people have a kind of desire to pass that through generations. And often younger people just want to go to IKEA and have their own things down and they don't want Royal Doulton dinner services and beautiful and tickets and I want to select one, but they'll be very selective about what they do want and what they don't typically, won't they

Nikki  14:15  
that's true. And I suppose honesty is always a good thing. Unfortunately, dark wood furniture has fallen from grace. But there's been a resurgence in 1960s coal and GE plan and that's selling quite well at the moment. And it's it's contemporary, that's what you know, the kids actually liking that sort of period. So yeah, it really depends what's what the client has to dispose of, quite often put them in touch with auction houses if we feel that it's appropriate. So we've got quite a few local contacts and they're great with us too. We can just bounce some pictures through it and then they'll come back with a yes or no whether or not it's, it's worth putting up for auction. So that's always a handy, handy avenue for that's

Lesley  14:58  
the kind of thing that you would do to snap Put on your phone send a picture off as an attachment to a local auction house and last seen tell you whether it's something that saleable or not.

Nikki  15:07  
Exactly, I mean, my preferred option is always to donate to charity, because there's so many people who don't have very much and, you know, very grateful to have various things that people don't want anymore. So that's always my favourite Avenue if the clients willing and able, most

Lesley  15:23  
honest, and it can be a really positive thing. And it can, you know, be quite inspiring content to give things where if especially if you've got a really great charity, one round here that I use quite regularly as a homeless charity that we houses the homeless, and so it's always fantastic to be able to give your stuff away to them, because you know that it really is going to someone who absolutely needs it. In retirement properties as well, one of the things that you quite often lose, as well, and pretty much always lose, I would say, is a lot space or a garage. So that's something that most people in retirement purposes no longer have, that they may have had in their home before. So how do you go about discarding or decluttering, the loft or garage space?

Nikki  16:03  
Okay, so loss, generally a storage spaces for things that we very, very rarely use. So generally, an emotional attachment doesn't apply to the things that we've picked up, they're gathering dust. So generally, apart from things like photos that you might find in a loft, it's fairly easy for our clients to say goodbye to whatever's up there. garages are slightly more problematic, because quite often the things they're in, they're actually useful. So lawnmowers, and garden equipment and tools. But we've got a great contact locally, who is a chap that works for work aid, and he takes all manner of things for me sewing machines, knitting machines, normos. And we also contact our local men's shirts. And sometimes they come and collect wooden just really depends what they need. But generally, it isn't too much of a problem, because the emotional attachment isn't quite there with that stuff, as opposed to the things that you find actually in the home.

Lesley  17:07  
So you mentioned a couple of charities there. And obviously, this is a sort of, we've got people listening from all over the world, but I'm interested because I've not heard of either of those charities that you mentioned. So can tell us a little bit more about what kinds of things those charities do. So work aid and Men's Sheds.

Nikki  17:22  
Okay, so work aid is a fantastic organisation, they collect all sorts of things, and they make up packs, so so if somebody was a seamstress, they get her sewing machine threads and some fabric and it all goes on in points or containers and shipped overseas with volunteers who are engineers, electricians, and what they do, they go to these places and train up local people. And once they're trained, they're then presented with the kits so they can go and earn their living. So it's fantastic is based actually, in the Midlands, where we've got a local contacts who lives just down the road from me in Kent, so he stores in his garage, and then it will get ferried up to the head office. And Men's Sheds are sometimes affiliated with hospice shops. And, you know, they'll take various bits and pieces as they need them. So bits of wood tools drills, and I think lots of retired men go and work in the sheds. I'm not entirely

Lesley  18:32  
just happy that Men's Sheds are taken all the stuff that you know, I'm going to go to home, even though I've gotten into the ins and outs of what they do in the Men's Sheds. Okay. Well, it's brilliant. I'm really interested in that. I mean, the workout one sounds fantastic, because there are certain things that you know, you're things like sewing machines, if they are older, you think that they're not going to have a useful home. So sometimes they get recycled. But actually, if they're going overseas, then perhaps you can send older models is that would that be what you have? Seen?

Nikki  19:03  
Yes, I believe so. Especially the old hands cranked ones if they're going into the middle of Africa where there isn't really much power supply, then that's probably perfect. Because

Lesley  19:14  
useful. Thank you for mentioning those Nikki, that's fab. So I think we've covered a lot of the things that you need to do when you are downsizing the practicalities. So just to sort of recap on that, we really need to look at the furnish that we've got, we're probably going to have to, you know, take that down by at least half or two thirds, even artwork, or potentially buy new furniture that's going to fit better into the space, look at the storage that's built in and be realistic with the amount of stuff that you've got, and what's actually going to fit and I guess in those lovely large hallway cupboards that they have often in retirement properties. It's still we still do the standard decluttering things like containerized things, label things, so we know exactly what is in them and everything's visible and accessible. Last in garages, I mean, I've always I always find lofts and garages in some ways, even though they're very overwhelming to look at. And to declutter, or the idea of it is, actually, the reality is that it's quite straightforward. Because a lot of those things that are found the way there tend to, you've already made a decision that you no longer want them in the home. So it's a bit of a dumping ground are a bit of a procrastination on a decision, a lot of the things that are in there, you're not going to need, you're not going to need garden and equipment, because there's probably going to be a gardener or a handyman, or somebody like that, who's going to come and fix things outside and in the garden. And takes wise, if you have got any valuables or antiques, you talked about photographing the item and sending it straight off to an antique house. So it's good to have those contacts before you get started on that, I think, isn't it? So you can do that as you go through? And then now's the time to pass things on to family members, but be realistic about whether or not they want them. And if they don't, don't get upset about it. I think that's the thing as well, because it can it can be quite hard because you're dissecting and sort of taking down lots of aspects of your life, aren't you? And you want you want it to kind of rain on don't You don't want to just say goodbye to those things. So you know, take taking pictures, I guess is really important. While the home is still intact. Yeah. Would you agree? Is there anything else that you wanted to add? Nikki, that's important.

Nikki  21:13  
It's like anything, it's a project. So if you project plan, well, it tends to make things a little bit easier along the way of getting things in place, and the times they need to be done to ensure a smooth move.

Lesley  21:27  
Definitely. So seeing the move partnership is a UK based company. They're affiliated I think with NASA, which is American companies that write National Association of senior Move Managers. Is that what it is? Yeah,

Nikki  21:40  
that's right. Yeah, we fall under their umbrella. So everyone's fully insured, we abide by a code of ethics. We're dealing with vulnerable people. So it gives that extra layer of comfort really,

Lesley  21:52  
of course it does. And, and I think it's fair to say that you and I are both professional organisers. And we have done that type of work with that with our own company as well. So if anybody wants help with a move, because it is daunting, particularly if you're on your own as well, if you're getting married, and you're on your own, you've not got any children that can help you and things like that, it's really useful to reach out to professional organisers to get them to manage the process for you. So they'll take the stress away a little bit, obviously, it's a stressful move, but they will take that away, and they'll do a lot of the doing do a lot of the thinking a lot of the planning. And that's the kind of thing that's really overwhelming, isn't it?

Nikki  22:25  
It is yeah, so we're very happy to take a call got lots of clients, we might not necessarily progress to a job, but just reaching out saying, you know, I've got this problem thinking about moving, what do I do? So we take a call, and then if they feel they need extra help, obviously, we're happy to go home visit and assess their situation and needs.

Lesley  22:45  
And abet is really rewarding work, isn't it?

Nikki  22:49  
It's amazing. I've met such lovely interesting people. I've learned so much since I've been doing Yeah, no, it's

Lesley  22:57  
lovely. And the nice thing is, you can spend spending quite a lot of time with people because you've gone through the decluttering process and the move process, looking at their new house house thinking about furniture and things like that. It's lovely to be able to spend that much time with that amount of time with people, isn't it so you can really get to know what makes them tick, what's important to them and certain things that they have done in their lives.

Nikki  23:18  
Absolutely. And actually, it's quite exciting as well. It's a new chapter, and I get very excited about it all. And I think, Well, I hope that sometimes actually that rubs off. So when they're feeling a bit wobbly about it, I bounced this. This is very exciting new chapter and meet lots of new friends.

Lesley  23:37  
I know it really works well for my dad, for sure, because of that nice community that's there. And this is the sort of safety and security elements. And it's simple, isn't it, you've got a smaller place to look after, it just doesn't the manageability is there, the bills are cheaper, all those kinds of just manageability of the home, as you say, being able to lock up and leave and go to Spain for six months if you want to perfect. Right. Suddenly we've covered everything, Nikki, so thank you so much for being with us. That's given us a really great insight into the type of work that you do and what sort of things are necessary when someone's downsizing their home. So that's it for this episode. We hope you've all enjoyed listening, I'm inspired to take action. So if downsizing some something that you're about to embark on for yourself or something that you'll be getting involved with a family member soon. We hope we've given you some great advice today. Huge thanks to Nikki for taking the time out of her. I think it's fair to say a very hectic schedule to talk to us today.

So Nicky, can you tell our listeners where they can find out more about the senior move partnership or your company all organised?

Nikki  24:40  
Okay, so if you've got to move in Cannes, you can contact us on www.or Dash organised.co.uk That's our website and there's a contact form and our telephone numbers. And if you have a national move and need assistance is info at you You've seen is the.co.uk

Lesley  25:04  
Brilliant. Thank you. So thanks for taking the time to listen today. If you'd like to get more tips and advice, please follow us on social media. We're on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook as declutter hub. And we also have a lively supportive Facebook group where we chat all things clutter, you can search for the declutter community, we would love to see you there. If you don't want to miss the next weekly episode of our podcast, subscribe to the declutter podcast on Apple podcasts, Spotify and Stitcher and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. See you next time.

Outro  25:36  
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