Episode 201 – Is perfectionism stopping you in your decluttering tracks

If you are prone to perfectionist traits, decluttering can be a tough ask and people with perfectionism often feel paralysed. In this podcast we’re going to talk about perfectionism and what you can do to avoid it when decluttering.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Ingrid: If you are prone to perfectionist traits, decluttering can be a tough ask, and people with perfectionism often feel paralyzed. In this podcast, we're going to talk about perfectionism and what you can do to avoid it when decluttering.

[00:00:17] So Lesley Perfectionism. Tricky subject to talk about. I'm not going to lie, 

[00:00:25] Lesley: it's a tricky subject to talk about and how, how ironic that we should talk about perfectionism on a day when this podcast is going to be far from perfect. Because I'm like dying here with a cold. And so if I'm feeling, if I sound very nasally and there's a lot of sniffing that goes on, I'm sorry, but this podcast is going to be far from perfect.

[00:00:43] But we sat here this morning, we're like, Do we go for it with the nasally sounds or do we not? And so in, in an attempt to not be perfectionist, we're going for it. Yeah. Yes, 

[00:00:53] Ingrid: yes. Hoping for the best. Exactly. And Lesley, I'm going to come clean. I have suffered with lots of perfectionism in the past. And actually it was so bad at some point it burned me out.

[00:01:07] So I think I should have listened to this podcast when I was 22. That would've helped a lot, I think. Interesting 

[00:01:14] Lesley: perfectionism. I. I don't know whether I have perfectionism. I don't think I do. I don't think I do. I think I do in some ways. So I think it's different. I think I like things to be done right, of course.

[00:01:26] But I don't think I would let perfectionism stop me from executing on something. Mm-hmm. So I have my own way as you well know of doing things and I like things to be just so, but I am more of a kind of just try it and see and fix it later kind of person I think. Would you agree 

[00:01:42] Ingrid: with that? Yeah, definitely.

[00:01:43] Definitely. I mean, you're always like, let's do this, let's do that. And then I'm like, oh, okay, okay. And I'm like, but I need to finish my list first. And you're like, well, let's give it a go and we'll see how it goes. And I think that's one of the great assets of you. I think. I mean, for me it is that I kind of keep you on track with like.

[00:01:59] Let's finish a couple of things that we need to do as well, but I think that's maybe why we make a great team. Yes, 

[00:02:05] Lesley: absolutely. I think you can, you can confuse a lot of different traits, I guess, together, but really we're going, we're going for perfectionism that really affects the way you do things and the way that you particularly, In this instance declutter.

[00:02:21] Mm-hmm. And so, and how that affects your decluttering journey. Yeah. Um, and we know from experience that people are like, oh yeah, that's the reason why I'm getting installed. And people think about it in other areas of their life, but they don't necessarily think about it in the, in a decluttering way, do they?

[00:02:37] So we want to bring to your attention, Some of the things that we believe are perfectionist traits and maybe some examples and solutions and that kind of thing of how we think you can avoid it when it comes to decluttering, the bottom line is a spoiler alert. We don't think you should be perfectionist when it comes to decluttering.

[00:02:54] That's it in a nutshell. We could stop the podcast here, but let us delve into it a little bit deeper, shall we? Yes. And see whether any of these traits resonate with you. So first things, first thing. I think one of the big traits that there is when it comes to perfectionism is kind of having an all or nothing thinking.

[00:03:12] And what I mean by that is that you want to do either the whole room or none of it. So unless you can achieve the whole room or sometimes the whole house, if we're perfectionist here, we're not going to do it at all. What do you think? 

[00:03:27] Ingrid: Yeah, I think it's it. I think we definitely see that a lot. And I think what happens is that people get stopped in their tracks because I.

[00:03:36] It's almost like I need to find the perfect moment in the perfect weather, in the perfect, when nobody's here, when nothing can interfere with my life. Doesn't get in the way I'm going to do it. Everything. The whole room, like you said, or, well, it's, I'm, I can't do that because not everything is perfect. The conditions are not a hundred percent perfect for me to do this.

[00:04:00] So I can't do it. 

[00:04:01] Lesley: Yeah, exactly. And I think what we would say about that, and you know, we are all about breaking things down and so we absolutely are not an all or nothing sort of scenario. We are just take, just take it one little step at a time. You know, do one draw at a time, do one shelf at a time, you know, celebrate those wins along the way and see how you get on.

[00:04:19] So I think breaking it down is everything, because if you have this all or nothing, it will undoubtedly be nothing. Happens. And for perfectionist, that is what happens. It's nothing that happens because they're being so perfectionist. And so really think about that and think about whether this all or nothing thinking is a thing that's stopping you in your tracks.

[00:04:38] Ingrid, one of the other things that I think is definitely a trait of perfectionism is that people are highly critical of themselves. The mistakes that they are making, the imperfections in that decluttering journey. And also not just themselves, but also others. And that can be equally paralyzing. Karl.

[00:04:55] It 'cause it can, a decluttering project can grind to a halt if we are constantly seeing the mistakes that we're making because we will make mistakes, won't we? Mm-hmm. 

[00:05:03] Ingrid: I think people beat themselves up on they're making mistake instead of taking the learning from it. They're being hard on themselves.

[00:05:11] They're being critical of themselves. Well, why did I make that mistake? Why did I do that? Why did I not see, foresee this thing coming instead of going, okay, that didn't work really well. Okay, how am I going to solve this? Or what am I going to do next? Or How can I avoid this another time so I don't fall in that trap?

[00:05:29] But I think they. Kind of can, can stick in in their head, they can stick with it and go, well, that was stupid, or, wow. And, and kind of keep perpetuating 

[00:05:39] Lesley: that. Yeah, exactly. And the, and the problem with that is that you need to get, we have a, in the declutter, we have a cycle of success and we know that what, however small the project is that you're doing, You need to go round that whole cycle and get to the stage, which is finish and enjoy because that finish and enjoy stage is what's going to make you get up tomorrow and do another one if you've got a big, uh, a big project to do.

[00:06:01] And we, you know, at the end of the day, decluttering doesn't stop. It's a continuous process, isn't it? Sometimes we might go health a leather on it and sometimes it might not be so bad, but generally, When things come into our house, things that need to leave. And so decluttering is a permanent cycle. So I think it's really about looking at those mistakes, as you're saying, with learning from them thinking, right, okay.

[00:06:23] I really struggled with that decision today. Uh, maybe that was too early in this journey for me to look at that particular item. So if I come across something like that again, I'm going to put it off to one side and I'm going to deal with that later on in my decluttering journey when I feel I can make those, those decisions a little bit better.

[00:06:39] So I. Really be careful of being overly critical and ruminating then on the mistakes that you're making because you will make mistakes. That's part of the process, and that's part of the learning. 

[00:06:50] Ingrid: Yeah, I think that's life anyway. Uh, Lesley, I mean, we do make mistakes along the way and that's, we take our learning moments from it and it's, it's how we move on after that, isn't it?

[00:06:59] And it's, I think it's so important to, to celebrate those small wins and also, To balance that out with, we've done something well, hey, well done. Me go, me. I've done this really well. Instead of only, um, picking up the stuff that we don't do well. Yeah, exactly, exactly. 

[00:07:16] Lesley: I think goals are a biggie when it comes to perfectionism.

[00:07:21] And you mean you're in a good place here with, aren't they? Because we are big on goals, whether that's big picture goals, vision goals, or whether that's small, manageable, smart 

[00:07:30] Ingrid: goals. Yes, indeed. Lesley goals is something we talk about. All the time here at the Declutter Hub. And then specifically we talk about smart goals.

[00:07:39] Goals need to be specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, and timely, and especially the achievable bit is so important. Yeah, 

[00:07:50] Lesley: absolutely. It is the achievable part of the smart goal that gets missed out, and that links back then into what we were talking at the beginning of the podcast, which is about this all or nothing.

[00:07:59] And so we really need to look at the goal. Is it achievable that if you don't make an achievable goal, you are going to, in your words, Fail and not be able to move on. And that is what's going to paralyze you again. So it's really important to think about that achievable part of the goal. Always think about those goals, break them down.

[00:08:18] You know, we talk a lot about planning for a decluttering projects, and you need to really think about the achievability of a goal. Now another thing with that I wanted to talk about when it comes to goals is that perfectionists tend to be very focused on the goal or the result. Yeah. And so, They don't enjoy the process.

[00:08:40] And so when you are want, want a sustained decluttering journey, and we've already talked about it being a cycle and something that kind of never goes away, sadly, it's now a one-off project. We need to enjoy the process. You know, we've got so many people haven't we? In our membership where decluttering has almost become.

[00:08:56] A hobby, do you know? I mean, they love it so much and they love the feeling that it gives them the, and the method of organisation and creating something that's really sustainable in the home, that it's become a hobby. They definitely are enjoying the process because ultimately, Ingrid, we are growing and thriving, and that's what it's all about.

[00:09:13] And so, you know, it can be a hobby, it can be enjoyable. Let's, let's create a new kind of movement towards decluttering being a hobby, 

[00:09:21] Ingrid: which is good. Well, I mean, I'm in, I, I'm in, I, I love it. Anyway, so, For me, it is a hobby, but I think if you get stuck on the goal and you don't enj, enjoy the journey to get, it's like when you go traveling, Lesley, if you're only focused on, on where you're going and what you're going to do there, you're going to.

[00:09:42] Not focus on the, the way to travel there. You're going to miss out a whole part of your, of your, of your 

[00:09:47] Lesley: holiday. I think, I mean, to be fair, do you think that sitting on a plane, like, you know what I mean, with a sort of plastic sandwich is really a good fun? I, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about that analogy. Or a 12 hour card.

[00:09:58] Yeah, but I mean, 

[00:10:00] Ingrid: you know what? I think when you're in a car, you can look around in the landscape. Landscapes and the different people and, and help. 

[00:10:06] Lesley: Yeah. But it gets a bit tiring after a while. You know what I mean? I'm like, I hear you kind of, but I'm like, I'm not really buying into that actually. I'm definitely like, get me on that plane.

[00:10:16] Get me to the side. Unless you're in business class or something. And it might be different, then you might enjoy the journey or chauffeur driven. But actually if an economy. And it's like a 10 hour flight and it's not really that enjoyable, but I might be wronging with, I dunno, I just imagine you like 

[00:10:31] Ingrid: sitting, looking out your window like this is amazing.

[00:10:34] Six 

[00:10:34] Lesley: hours in is worth going through. Like Northern France. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, I 

[00:10:38] Ingrid: do enjoy that. I do enjoy that. I think, I think it's part of maybe switching off. Of the daily work and, and home and all of those things, and kind of going, I'm actually, you know, I'm on my, my way to see something else. To experience something else.

[00:10:54] And I think that's, for me, I think that's really part of the holiday. It's like preparing for a holiday. A lot of people don't find it fun, but I, I think I. You know what, it's all a part of the excitement of, of the trip, so maybe it didn't 

[00:11:06] Lesley: sound like it. I, I, England, I'm sorry. You know, you were looking at the, the lorries on the, on the road in Kent and taking pictures of them.

[00:11:13] You got turned away on the ferry when you were coming back. 

[00:11:17] Ingrid: I, I'm not, I'm not buying into your 

[00:11:18] Lesley: enjoyment. I mean, you might be saying it, but I'm not so sure. Anyway, I'll leave you, 

[00:11:23] Ingrid: I'll leave, I'll leave you. Okay. Well, maybe it's a bad example then, but, okay. All right. Well, so let's get it back to decluttering then.

[00:11:31] You can't only hold the end goal in sight because it's going to take a lot of small steps to get there. And if you feel you're not, you're only focusing on the end. You're missing the whole way there and the mindset changes that happen when you're decluttering and the learning that you're doing and the progress that you're making and the things that you're moving yourself forward.

[00:11:56] Lesley: You're so right that it's about that mindset change, and you need to enjoy that along the way. You need to see the progress that you're making with your mindset and not just with your stuff. Mm-hmm. You know, we talk about decluttering not being about the stuff, and of course the end goal is to have less stuff.

[00:12:10] Of course it is. But what we are looking for in the Declutter hub is a change in mindset, and that is a gradual thing, and that's part of the journey. I think that that's what we're sort of saying really. Um, I mean, it could be l on the, uh, road in Ken. Or it could also be a mindset change. So let's go to a break now and talk a little bit more and let's see some other, other examples that I can, uh, that you can talk to me about and I can completely blow out of the war.

[00:12:32] Ingrid, 

[00:12:34] Ingrid: we'll see you after the break.

[00:12:36] Hi everyone. Welcome back after the break and we are talking about perfectionism and how it can stop you in your decluttering tracks. And we've talked about four different traits already before the break.

[00:12:51] So let's talk some more. Lesley, what's the next one we wanted to talk about? 

[00:12:56] Lesley: I think one of the traits that I see quite regularly as well, or we see certainly in our members and with our clients, is that perfections tend to be really, really hard on themselves, and not just on a one-off basis, but in a sustained way.

[00:13:10] So they're continually hard on the. And just don't let that go at all. So it's not like wallowing, it's not wallowing, that's the wrong word, but like really sort of perpetuating and carrying on those negative feelings when the expectations that they had have gone or met. And so they've, they've set this goal, which has been unachievable.

[00:13:28] They haven't then met that goal, and then they've beat themselves up over that. Uh, in a, on a prolonged basis and really, really struggle to move on. So people are unnecessarily hard on themselves. So how do, how would we counteract that? What do we think about that and the declutter hoing grid? 

[00:13:45] Ingrid: Well, Lesley, I think one of the main things that is so important to.

[00:13:50] Having your life is kindness and not for other people alone, but also for yourself. I mean, during the break we uh, told you about the webinar, we had the three key ingredients for ecologic success, and kindness is absolutely crucial because when you're kind to yourself and you give yourself some grace, you can also then say, okay.

[00:14:14] I might not not have done this exactly how I wanted to, but it's better that I've done something than nothing at all. Yes, it was a busy week, but I still found 10 minutes to do something instead of going, well, I. Uh, well that was rubbish. I haven't done anything at all. It's all about recognizing what you have done instead of all the stuff that you haven't done.

[00:14:36] Lesley: Yeah, and I think it's about recognizing that as a perfectionist, you know, sometimes you need to be told that these things happen before you can learn from them and try and counteract them, haven't you? So you've got to be aware. So awareness is the first stage. You know, there might be some people listening to this podcast who aren't even aware that perfectionism is what.

[00:14:54] Stopping them from in, in their decluttering tracks. So some of these light bulbs might be going, and people thought, I've never really thought about the fact that I am quite a perfectionist when it comes to my home. So that's very, very relevant. Mm-hmm. Now, Ingrid, we're going to come onto a, a couple of biggie now.

[00:15:10] And these are probably the biggest things, um, that I think are a problem when it comes to perfectionism and decluttering. Uh, and the first one is fear of failure. That is what stops a lot of perfectionists from taking any action at all. Now because the goals that they have set have been very kind of ambitious, let's call it.

[00:15:29] There's a good chance that they might not have achieved those goals 'cause they've been looking for perfection and so then they know then per perhaps that failure, I. Is a very realistic option. So it's definitely the fear of failure is a big one when it comes to perfectionist, and so that then stops you from getting started on anything new.

[00:15:47] So it's this kind of perpetuating thing, which is like, oh, but I set to, my goals were too high. I didn't achieve them. I'm being very hard on myself. I can remember the fact that I was rubbish in your words at that, and so therefore, I'm not going to do that again. It's too hard. So then you've got to go back to the all or nothing mentality.

[00:16:06] So it's all wrapped up in these, this thought process, isn't it, Ingrid, that just stops you from getting anything 

[00:16:11] Ingrid: done. I think Lesley as well, that if we fail at something, then it makes us more scared. To do it again or try something new because we can kind of get stuck in that thinking, don't we? And that's why we talk a lot here in the Declutter Hub about you need to break down your project.

[00:16:31] You can't go all out and say, this is the weekend that is all going to happen. You're going to have to say, okay. I'm going to start small. I'm going to start with one drawer, one box, one shelf. Be happy that you've achieved it and then move on. And yes, of course you can make a list for yourself if that makes you happy, and kind of write down and say, okay, I want to do this drawer and that drawer and that shelf and, and take them off along the wave.

[00:16:59] That gives you, uh, immense pleasure. But I think. People are very much tempted to always go to the hardest thing in their house to do. And what we say here is that you need to start smaller and easier. You need to start with a room that doesn't feel so daunting, that doesn't feel so hard. A perfect example is one of our members who is in our membership, who said, I've just joined.

[00:17:24] I've always, in the past, gone for the most tricky room in my house. I've just been floundering about for five years, trying to do lots of different things and courses, and read books and try different methods. And now I'm in the Declutter Hub and you've actually shown me that you actually don't start with the hardest room.

[00:17:45] You start easier, and it's given her such motivation and boost. She's now ready to go and I mean, we've got a whole course about, they're called. Decluttering 1 0 1 in our membership about how do you get started on your decluttering journey and what do you need to know before you 

[00:18:02] Lesley: do that? Exactly. No, it's great.

[00:18:05] It's a, it's a brand new course as well, so we're so delighted that it hit the spot where there wasn't it. So yeah, definitely, because I think you need to understand all these things before you get started and, and not make the same mistakes that you've made in the past. So no. Fantastic. Fantastic. There's a biggie coming up and I think a lot of people who are perfectionists will, will be prone to this.

[00:18:25] And it's quite an unusual thing that the two things go hand in hand, but they absolutely do, which is perfectionism goes hand in hand with procrastination. And so we've talked about all of the things, you know, setting realistic goals, being hard on yourself, you know, struggling to kind of let go of those feelings.

[00:18:41] And so therefore it leads definitely to procrastination. And so procrastination is a. Biggie, isn't it Ingrid, when it comes to decluttering? 

[00:18:50] Ingrid: Yeah. I think it's interesting because I think a lot of people who look at a person who is quite perfectionist thinks they are go-getters and that they're want to succeed, and then what?

[00:19:01] They get the result. But what they don't see is, is the downside from that is they overthink a lot of things. They see the, the job to be done as, as a mountain of stuff, and they can't see. You just need to do one step on one ladder. You know, you, you, you need to break it down because they seem to have everything under control because a lot of things that they do in their lives, I.

[00:19:27] Do flow very well, but they get stuck on other things. 

[00:19:32] Lesley: Definitely, definitely. So procrastination is a big ear and I'm sure it's something that resonates with a lot of people. So we've talked about some of the traits that we believe, well, certainly that we have seen when it comes to perfection, perfectionism, and clutter.

[00:19:46] So we've talked about perfectionism in this podcast and we've, we've explained to you the types of things that we've seen with clients and members that we believe are intrinsically linked to decluttering when it comes to perfectionism. So just to summarize the types of things that we think that you need to do to try and avoid perfectionism getting in the way of your decluttering journey.

[00:20:05] First things first. You need to be kind to yourself. Don't be so hard on yourself. That's rule number one of any decry, perfectionist or not. Um, really, really important to be kind to yourself. We think it's very important to look at the goals that you're setting yourself and make sure that they're absolutely realistic and achievable.

[00:20:22] Very, very important. If you work towards your goal, make sure they're not too big, and make sure that if you don't achieve your goals, you don't beat yourself up over that. You learn from it. You learn from your mistakes, and you come back for more. Tomorrow, very important. And the most important thing is that you don't procrastinate because you think these things are too difficult.

[00:20:43] You just need to get a stuck hill and give it a go. Be kind to yourself. Set the goals. Don't be hard off on yourself. Learn from your mistakes and be able to move forward. Start small. That's the key to it. Don't go for this all or nothing approach that we mentioned. 

[00:20:59] Ingrid: Thank you, Lesley, for summarizing and listeners.

[00:21:03] Have you had any light bulb moments while listening to this podcast and have you maybe realize that you are a perfectionist yourself? We would love to hear from you. Tell us in the comments, either in your podcast player or on our website when decluttering has, when perfectionism has stood in your way of your decluttering journey.

[00:21:24] Now, next week we're talking about gift cupboard organising, so thanks for being here, and we hope to see you next week.
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