A photograph of Jo Jacob, a smiling woman with blonde hair and a pink scarf
Episode 37 – How to Organise & Declutter Photos with Guest expert, Jo Jacob

In this podcast, Lesley talks to Jo Jacob, Hampshire based Professional Organiser and owner of Benella, about decluttering and organising photos. Jo is a fully trained and certified Photo Organiser with APPO (The Association of Personal Photo Organisers) and helps clients get to grips with decluttering, organising, digitising and backing up their photo collections.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The Declutter Hub Podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host, professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen, and Lesley Spellman.

Lesley  0:26  
Hello, listeners and welcome to Episode 37 of the Declutter Hub Podcast. I'm Lesley, and I'm very excited to welcome our guest today, Jo Jacob from Banella. Jo has been a homeowner organisation business for over 14 years and is one of the most long standing and experienced professional organisers in the UK. Jo, Ingrid and I see each other once a year at the Association of Professional declutters and organisers conference and always have a lot to talk about. Whenever I'm talking to Jo actually, I feel particularly Northern, as Jo is based in Hampshire, which is for all those people who don't know, the UK that well, it's about a southerly as you can be in England, and so Jo has the perfect British accent and I do not. So in her business, Jo offers pa support moving services and decluttering and organising. But a recent addition to her portfolio of services photo organising. And that is why Ingrid and I wanted Jo to be a guest expert on our podcast today. both Jo and I are trained and certified with the Association of personal photo organisers. But Jo has way more experience than I do. And so that's why she's on our podcast today. So photos, they're such special things and they can be so overwhelming. And organising them is definitely something that most of us put off for a rainy day. Who knew there was such a thing as a photo organiser? Now that definitely would be a treat to have one and, but something many of us can't invest in. So today, Jo and I are going to discuss the basics of how to declutter and organise your own photos to gain some control back and make sure they are stored effectively and backed up. So your treasured photo collection is never lost. Welcome, Jo. 

Jo  2:06  
Hi, Lesley. Thank you for having me.

Lesley  2:08  
Oh, you're welcome. So I'm excited. Right. Okay, so we're gonna talk all about photos. So you're doing quite a bit of photo organising at the moment, aren't you?

Jo  2:18  
I am Yes, I just saw another client this morning for three hours of a session to help them organise a gift photo book. And having scanned a lot of her photographs and delivered them to her. So she could make the digital photo book. So yes, I'm really enjoying it at the moment. It's great.

Lesley  2:36  
And that's so brilliant that people can actually call you in and ask for your help and go through that. But I guess you know, as I just said, there's a lot of people who wouldn't be able to make that investment. And so it's quite a difficult thing to do. But there's a lot of emotions isn't the wrapped up in photographs?

Jo  2:51  
I think there are yes, absolutely. And it's sometimes it's because we don't know the people. It's almost like we sort of need to draw a little family tree so we can understand people and who everyone is. And then I think it's sometimes easier. That's the time it is easier to be more remote. Because we can then be saying, well, actually, I think that's the best picture of your mother or your father, rather than those ones, you know, which aren't as clear. And we can make that objective decision for someone and just guide them in that way. Yes, for sure.

Lesley  3:23  
So I guess what I first wanted to talk to you about your was actual, actually how to declutter photographs, because people be like, Oh, no, you're not touching my photos. They just need to just stay as they are in the boxes and, and they're all over the house, aren't they quite often photographs. And so they definitely needed to need to be gathered together and organised well. So how do you actually go about decluttering Photograph Collection,

Jo  3:47  
I think like you say, when they can be all over the house, I think the first thing we say is kind of you know, assess the mess. So just get them all together. Sometimes they can be all in one section, a lot of times I come across printed photographs that have been inherited, you know, handed down and people therefore don't know what to do with that. Or sometimes they don't know who the people are. A lot of the times it's just delayed decisions like a lot of decluttering that we do in other aspects of our business as well. So it's a question of just putting some time aside I always say little and often, especially if we're talking about printed photographs, they can be in the old envelopes. You know, I'm old enough to remember when we sent them off and then waited a week to get them back to see you know, how many our fingers how many photographs I think it was over the lens and how many we've repeated and things like that. So then it's a question of going through an envelope at a time to organise them into you know, the piles of of how you're going to then sort them and then it's an easier way to organise them.

Lesley  4:47  
I think isn't the difference between a printed photograph and a digital photograph? Actually, you know, on our phones we've you know, we've all got 1000s and 1000s of pictures on our phones and we take no we were talking before we came on the podcast wait you take 15 selfies as well, I definitely do 15 selfies and maybe never ever get it right. But try and there might be one that might be usable. But we don't have any problems. Sometimes Sometimes we do keep all those. But, but sometimes if we do go into them and decide to do a little bit of a digital call, we don't find that difficult. But we do find it very difficult to get rid of an old photograph, particularly if it's a black and white one or one from years and years and years ago, because somehow we feel like we're losing a memory or forgetting about that person, or it's difficult emotions, isn't it?

Jo  5:33  
I definitely agree. Yes, I think it's that tangible. It's holding that tangible item, therefore thinking, well, that's hard to let go. But there are a lot of ways around that, you know, you can scan that photograph. So therefore, if you don't have the room to store it, you know, it's also more protected if it's scanned anyway, and put into me the you know, a photo book or it's on a digital photo display, photo frame display, something like that. So you still have it without actually having the tangible one. If you already can see, it's backed up and you have it digital, then maybe then you can let go of it or frame it or have it, you know, have it nicely, but not in an envelope that's in a drawer. You know, where it's not being treated? Really, you know, if it's a loved item it needs to be needs to be looked after. Definitely. Yeah, it

Lesley  6:22  
definitely does. And so I want to come back actually later to talk about sort of digital photographs and scanning and backing up and things like that. So we'll cover that a little bit later in the podcast. But for now, I want to both you and I was just saying that we've met that we meet each year dealt with at the our annual conference where we all get very excited about organising matters, don't we? But yeah, a couple of years ago, a photo organiser from the from the States came over to talk to us all and introduced us to a system called the ABCs of organising for photographs that is and so that's the Association of Personal photograph organisers. And that was Kathy Nelson, who introduced that to us. I mean, you and I, our appetites were wetted without the word wetted. Because now you say I don't even know. And it piqued our interest anyway. And so we decided to become trained and certified by the by APO. And and the ABCs is the crux of what they suggest. So I'd love you to explain to us Jo, what the ABCs of photo organising is. So first of all, what's there's obviously an A, A, B, and C. So what's a what does it stand for?

Jo  7:33  
So a is your album Ready photos today, your you know, absolute number one photos, you would want to put them in an album, be it a physical album, or a hardback, sorry, a photograph album, on on the computer, or you'd want to frame them and have them on display. So your absolute favourite photographs.

Lesley  7:56  
Okay, so I'm just imagining the scene. So we've got so ideally, we'd want to be on a kind of largest table that we can work on. Yeah. So we've got all of these photographs in these wallets from Max Spielman or whatever the American equivalent is, as well. And so we're basically we've got some kind of boxes or something like that halfway to sort of start sorting things into how do you do it, Jo,

Jo  8:18  
I would just start in piles on your desk, and I would just do one envelope at a time. And so yes, just go through it and tends to be a prompt when someone is wanting to have their photographs organised. So it's, there's something coming up a golden wedding anniversary or a 50th birthday or you know, something is happening, where that's going to prompt you to have to go through and organise the photos. If it's just because you need to get around to the draw the box the attic full of photographs, then yes, take them out. But just a little at a time, I don't recommend that everyone gets all their photos out all at the same time. And then you know, it's too big or too big a job. So take them out and then just go through them, you know, oh, that's the photograph. I absolutely love that one of my son or my mother or something and therefore actually I want to frame that one or I want to put that in a photo album. So that's, that's your A's that's your absolute favourite ones. Okay,

Lesley  9:20  
so that's the A's album, A stands for album quality photographs then. So So we've we've put a pile of A's so those are our favourite photographs. And so now we're looking at the bees. And so what what's the bee category

Jo  9:34  
so your bees are the ones that you definitely want to keep and you would still back them up. But they're maybe not going to be framed not going in the photo album but still important enough for you to keep so it might be uncle Norman, who is you know there but you're not going to have a framed picture of him or he's not going an album but you still want to keep a photograph of him for future reference, anything like that. So still ones you want to keep but then Not your A's, but still good enough that you want to keep them.

Lesley  10:04  
Okay. Okay, so that's, so that's our a's and b's. And so the those are the photographs that we're keeping in those two top categories. And then we go on to the C category, which is what.

Jo  10:15  
So C, because it's an American system, C stands for can, which is trash, which in England is is rubbish, and can be the hardest ones to kind of deal with. Because it does therefore, potentially involve, you know, having a black bin bag or a box that you know, you're going to get rid of them. But a lot of them, you know, when we were sending them back to, you know, be developed and then receiving the envelope back, or if you've inherited some photographs, in actual fact, the sees, you can make a little bit easier, they're the ones that you know, your fingers over the lens, or it's blurred, or someone's taken a picture of a scene. And it's a motorway service station as they're driving past, you know, and you don't know where it is. But the one prior to that was your grandfather, for example. So that's probably your A, your your B, but really do you need a blurred one from the motorway kind of thing. So therefore, I would encourage that as your see, that is your, you know, let's, let's let go of that. And we don't need to scan it, we don't need to back it up. And if it was on our phone, we would have just deleted it as a blurred, you know, image, we wouldn't be keeping it but because it's printed, sometimes people feel the need to keep it but in actual fact, you can throw them away. So duplicate blurred photos, people that you don't know, random buildings that you don't know what they there are or 10 of a mountain, you may be just need two different angles of the mountain and not the other eight. So the C's are the ones that you're going to get rid of, but it's an American system. So C stands for can,

Lesley  11:49  
it's an interesting one, isn't it really because we do find, I think some of it is because over in previous years, photographs were more expensive, weren't they, you know, because you had to pay your kind of 299 Unless you got your 19 MP, triple point or whatever. And so and you could only you know, when when we were talking about film, you know, even pre digital, you really only had 24, you know, photographs that you can take. And so the amount of photographs that we used to take is so much less than then we take now. So I wonder, I wonder why that if that's the reason why we actually cling on to them a little bit more printed photographs, because somehow they feel more special. But obviously, there were just as many mistakes with printed photographs as there are with digital photographs. So it's an interest in psychology really photographs. But it is something that people really do struggle with, particularly as you say, when you're there with that black bin liner, and ultimately, they have to go in a black bin line because it can't be recycled either. And so you know, it's definitely going to lump, you know, photographs have to go to landfill. And so it's a tough thing that it's one that you kind of have to wrench people away from if they want to. But you know, the passage of time as well, I think seems scenery you know, if we're going to I don't know, I don't know river Rhine or whatever you say. And there's kind of loads and loads of different pictures, river scenes and things and they're just with the passage of time, they're just not special. And what people want to see is they want to see the river rain in the background with the person on it enjoying that moment, I think for the most part. So quite often when I've done photo organising jobs is definitely the scenery ones that are the ones that go first.

Jo  13:26  
Yeah, I absolutely agree. It's just you know, a lot of times people don't remember where that is. And as you say something that's got to be more memorable. If you're looking to have your A's and B's, then if you keep that mindset of when I put this in an album to then show someone or am I going to back this up to keep it because it tells them you know, it's, it's what I really love, there's no point if you have five of those and it's blurred, or if it's just a scene that you you know, you already have numerous ones that are it's not important, it's not, you know, it's not as nice to look at as the other ones. So therefore, I just always do the analogy of if it's on your phone, you would just delete it. So therefore, just put it in a pile and sometimes it needs to be a step. I'm not, you know, we don't go in there, you know, completely hardcore and harsh. It's like, Okay, well let's put them in this box. And let's do the whole the rest of the whole job and then go back and look at them. Once you've got your albums. Once you've told you you've got your photograph book or you've backed everything up and you're seeing them on a computer or a digital photo frame. Now have a look through the sees the box of sees, are there any you're now going to take out and if there aren't, then let's let them go. But I would encourage that I would be the one to take them away so they don't actually just put them back up in the attic

Lesley  14:47  
and have you on the photo organising jobs that you've done. Just give us an indication. How many things do you think fall into that A B and C category in terms of percentages or is that too difficult for you to say?

Jo  15:00  
So I've done a lot of organising jobs where I've helped people with inherited photographs. So they're, you know, maybe in their 30s and 40s. And they've got, you know, grandparents and parents photograph and they literally just don't know who these people are very lucky. If you've got the writing on the back, that was great. Some people in that generation did write on the back, but a lot of people didn't. So it really is, I kind of do it, what let's go through and pull out what you want, and what you know, as opposed to, you know, watch what you don't know. So with regard to percentages, I'm probably erring on the side of caution by saying I would be encouraging them to keep them more than being ruthless because it is something that's probably after a bereavement. With with those cases. So that's a quite a tricky question. Okay, maybe keeping about 60%. Okay. And split into A's and B's? Well, every client is different. So that just depends on what that you know, how many children do they have? Do they take five holidays, vacations a year? Or do they go on one and it just therefore it depends on what's special to them and what they still want and just a backup,

Lesley  16:23  
of course, and I think there is also sometimes with some of the jobs that I've done. There's also a little bit of homework to be done with some of the photographs after if you're not sure, particularly those inherited photos. So you might be able to go back to your mom or your dad or whatever and say, I'd really like to keep this big. Can you just tell me a little bit of background about who it is? Or, you know, something like that? Or maybe or possibly before? And that's what you would, that's what you would do Jo, as a photo organiser is create that family tree, and to try and work out who is who and so that you've got an idea of how the family sort of takes the when the photo organising jobs that I've done have been for existing clients of mine. And so I've known a lot about their family already, because I've worked with them on decluttering jobs before that. So that makes it a little bit easier, because I know what makes them tick. And I know what they love to do. And I've got one of the Organising jobs that I did. You know, she's a runner, and you know, so she loves you know, and I know all the the running pictures from all different marathons, you would absolutely want to kick because that's something that she did later in life and is very proud of, you know, I know how much she gets some of their family I know the family tree and who lives where and things like that. Because I've just learned that over the past sort of eight years, I've been working with her. So it's things like that, really. So it's an under sometimes you need to understand the makeup of your own family, particularly if it's, you know, from from many years ago as well. So yeah, it's not it's not an easy job, certainly photo organise, and it's something that I certainly if I'm decluttering, a whole house photo organising to me is very much at the tail end of decluttering. Because it's very difficult. And I think if you've got yourself into the frame of mind to declutter other things that have been difficult, maybe you're the sentimental items and photos definitely comes at the end, when you're feeling competent with your decision making, and you feel a little bit more empowered to make harder decisions. So do you find that as well?

Jo  18:10  
No, I absolutely agree. And often the time when I've done a photo organising job with a client, I'm actually teaching them the method and then sort of helping write out a timeline to help with making, you know, the piles of photographs, if they are all jumbled up and you know, come out of different sleeves and different wallets, etc. So yeah, I'm absolutely you know, doing that. But then what I'm finding, when I first sort of started seeing clients doing photos, I was then sort of standing there whilst they were doing it. So now what I'm trying to encourage is kind of workshops or going round and teaching someone at the end of a session, how to organise the photographs using the ABC method, and then saying, right, so why don't Can you do that? That box those those 10 wallets of photos. And then when I come back, we can have a look, and then I can help you, you know, then move everything on as to what we're going to do rather than me standing there. Whilst they figure out who is someone as you say, it's a lot of a lot of homework. But I think they're always a bit more motivated when they've already done some decluttering and seeing the progress, seeing the progress and also if there is a goal at the end you know, the end of the ABCs is the S for stories, a lot of time you're making a gift for someone, which is what's prompted organising the photographs. I have either one of my very dear friends has been married maybe 25 years still hasn't done her wedding photographs, which are an attic. I think she's going to cook me dinner and she wants me to come around the process but that's all I would do. I wouldn't go and take those photographs and just say I've made this album for you because I don't know who her grandmother is. Or you know who was a friend that may be her Now let's the other side, the one she doesn't see, I don't know, Adam from Eve, as they say, on those photographs. And that's when I would just be encouraging on the process. And then saying, you know, just regular phone calls and messages, how's it going? You know, kind of a little bit of motivation that way, and then I can help at the end. Yeah,

Lesley  20:18  
I think it definitely is something that you need to plan like, say and have timelines for really, because it's a big job, you know, this. organising your own photographs is going to take hours and hours and hours and days and weeks to be fair. And so it's something that you need to commit to, not something that you can do half heartedly. But the reward at the end of it is phenomenal. Because if you've got your photographs, categorised, digitised backed up, and all looking fantastic in nice little folders, there's nothing more satisfying than that is there. So

Jo  20:49  
I made I mean, my son is 21 on a couple of weeks. And for his 18th birthday, it was one of my favourite gifts to Him as I made him a photograph book of his life. And it took me many, many, many hours but listening to him explain to his girlfriend, oh, that was my favourite track to t shirt when I was three. And I remember this and I'm and it was just all of those memories. And it was just priceless to me. You know, that that gift to him. So I think it's so important that if I didn't know, I hadn't found those photographs and scan them and made that book for me, you would never have had that. You know, that experience. So I think I think that they're great. They're just treasured moments, they really do need to be taken care of.

Lesley  21:36  
Yeah, and I think, you know, photo books nowadays they are because there's a few people, you know, my, I think my brother in law made one for my husband, which was them going to see Manchester City over the years. And so it's things like that in our family things and going from, you know, really, when they were really young to now and you know, just really special and even family albums that we've done in a photo book, because actually, photo books are quite straightforward, a little bit time consuming. But the technology is good, isn't it, and you can do them really, you know, there's a lot of templating and things like that, that you can do. So don't be scared of them. Because actually not that they're not that difficult either Jo?

Jo  22:15  
No, I think they're absolutely fantastic. The different, you know, companies that I use, that's what I was doing this morning with a client and then she was able to, you know, she'd already made note of who everyone was, because it was a historic photo album that she was doing. And therefore, you know, using the textbox underneath, you could type it in and it wasn't illegible writing it was text that you could change the font on and everything and, and you could put all that information in or you know, funny anecdote, something to remember that. And of course, another great thing about that, you know, I went to a wedding in New York last year, my goddaughter and I made a photo book and I was able to order three to send to everyone in America as a as a gift to them. And it's same again, you can share it so much. It you know so much more easily. And that's that's great nowadays, with all the social media that we that we have that's available. But when it comes to printed photographs, that's harder unless they are, you know, backed up and then able to be shared, it's so so much easier.

Lesley  23:20  
Just Just before we move on to which that does lead us very neatly on to am digitization and backing up, Jo but I just wanted to just ask which software you use to make your photo books.

Jo  23:31  
So I use photo box. So I do have a Mac. So I know there are various, you know, Mac applications. But I have to say I've not faulted Photobox. So I just would always use them. And the great thing about them is of course, if you make a book, then you get a an offer an email offer through one discount or making something else. So then you can do a canvas or you know, some something something else as well. So I tend to use they're all They're all pretty, you know, pretty similar. I've used a lot of American applications as well, because I've you know, I spent a lot of time over in America. So I've used some of those ones as well. There's Shutterfly and and various companies like that. But in the UK I use Photobox.

Lesley  24:17  
Yeah, because I'm an I used to do the apple ones, but they've gone why haven't they? So they don't exist anymore. And now I use blurb which I love as well. And I'd say an average photo book. I don't know it's how how many pages you've gotten it. But there's a maximum number of pages that you can have in a photo book. But I would say that an average photo book is around anywhere from 30 to 70 pounds. Would you agree Jo to make

Jo  24:41  
absolutely that I've got some of them down to kind of 25 pounds but yes, I would agree on average. Okay. My Sunday 10th book I added an awful lot of pages and therefore you know it cost a lot more but it was absolutely worth it. But not expensive. I don't think too To have something so, so memorable. And of course, it's therefore you've digitised those photographs so that they're already secure where the photo book to, you know, have to be destroyed in, you know, or an accident in some way. Yeah.

Lesley  25:16  
Perfect Well, right. So we've covered her ABCs. Thank you very much Kathy Nelson and APA for telling us all about that, which is fabulous. And so Jo and I are using that now. But let's talk about digitization. So we've talked a lot about printed photographs. And we've alluded to digitization and storage and backing up and things like that, which is super important. But it's, it's something that people find a bit scary, I think, isn't it? It's like, oh, I don't really know what to do. I don't know my hard drive from my cloud from wherever. So can you try and break that down a little bit for us, Jo, and just give you as keep this, keep this basic. So what are the basic things that you know, the minimum thing that people need to do in terms of digitization and backing up.

Jo  25:58  
So if you're talking about your digital photographs, then that are already you know, on your phone, and probably therefore, you know, on your thinking with your laptop or your computer, I would definitely recommend to backing up to a hard drive and also to the iCloud, I think you just have to always think about any eventuality, at the end of the day, if there was a fire, or a flood or you know something, you're going to rescue your family and your animals and then what people will then think about is their photographs, because they're the things that are irreplaceable. So if they are backed up into the cloud, you can access that access them anywhere. And they are protected. You know, obviously be secure about it, put a password on there, but you're covering all your bases then. So I would recommend backing digital photographs, as I said to a hard drive, and then to the iCloud.

Lesley  26:50  
Okay. So when you say hard drive, do you mean the hard drive on your computer? Or do you mean an external hard drive?

Jo  26:56  
I mean, I like it. So a memory stick? Yes.

Lesley  27:00  
Something external that you can backup and then put somewhere separate from your computer.

Jo  27:05  
Exactly. Because if your computer crashed, you know if it was damaged in some way, and I can't tell you how many clients I've sort of heard from, I want to make a photo book but my husband, my ex husband got the computer in the divorce. That's a that's what I hear unfortunately, you know, quite a bit. Or I don't know, I haven't got the cables. Now for those computers. I haven't turned them on for 10 years. But my son is getting married and the his baby pictures are on there. That kind of thing. And so it's just you know, did you pack them up? Are they on a hot? Nope, they're all just on the laptop. So it's just a way to, it's just to cover all the bases. So yeah. And they'll be on your computer normally automatically. But onto an external hard drive or a memory stick and then into the cloud.

Lesley  27:54  
Okay. And when we talk about the cloud, I mean, obviously there's iCloud, which is Apple, so can you can you tell us about any other cloud services that are out there?

Jo  28:02  
I know. I mean, for example, I'm an Amazon Prime member. And one of the other services for that is Amazon photos. You have Google Photos. But I'm afraid I use iCloud.

Lesley  28:15  
Yeah, and you can use Dropbox, I think as well, like people have got Dropbox as well. So you can use that kind of thing as well. And some of them are charges. Some of them cost money, and then some of them don't. So the Amazon Prime one is probably a great one. If you're already paying for Prime and you get Amazon photos, and I think Google but I think I think Google Photos is free, isn't it?

Jo  28:33  
Up to a certain amount. Now I know that I've exceeded my storage on my iCloud but I have to say it's 79 P a month. Yeah, doesn't even coffee. So I don't mind spending 79 P a month to have my all my photographs, you know stored I also use Dropbox. Dropbox is how I share scanned clients, sorry, scanned photographs with my client.

Lesley  29:00  
So that's backing up and talk and what about scanning Jo? Because I know that you do scanning don't you for clients yourself? So you've invested in a scanner? So you you do scan? Printed photographs and make some digital? Yeah,

Jo  29:13  
yes. What I found was was missing Lesley was people I was helping people organise their printed photographs, encouraging them to have them backed up. And I went to my local photograph shop and I said oh, how much is it to scan a photograph and they you know, told me I think they told me four pounds and I said oh, what for like 100 and he said no path photograph and it was one of those kind of light bulb moments of well once my job was off the floor of thinking that's not that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for my clients who you know, might have a photo album but they need them all scan to be able to share with children or there is a divorce or you know, whatever the reason is mainly for security to scan them so I invested in a fast photo, I have an Epson fast Photo Scanner, I had to get it shipped in from America and all of that. So it was, it was a big investment, but it's absolutely fantastic. And it now means that I can encourage everyone to go through the ABCs, organise their photographs, once I've told them the method, they don't need to pay me to stand there, whilst they sorting out, you know, Uncle Norman, from Aunt Doris, so to speak, and therefore, they can do that. And then they can give them back to me. And then I'm scanning them, and then sending them back to them. So they've got them all to share or, you know, do whatever they then want to do with them. So I think scanning is hugely important, because it's another way you can still keep the printed photographs. But you also have that backup of the your tangible photos that you wouldn't, you don't have to worry about with your digital ones, because you already have them.

Lesley  30:54  
The problem is with the photo shops on the high street, as you say it's just ridiculous. But there aren't you it's just not feasible is it? It's just not not an option. But I know a couple of jobs that I've done, you know, there are places that you can send your photographs to quite big companies. And they'll do them. And I can't remember how much it was really, I remember doing one job for clients, that was a couple of 100 pounds, I would say to do not that many pictures, which is still quite a lot of money. But it was quite a good service with a lot of security in terms of the postage, because you know, you're going to be nervous, aren't you're posting your photographs to the other side of the UK, they go, are they ever gonna come back. So it's quite a big leap, isn't it really, but I don't really see any other viable options unless you've got a scanning company on your doorstep, really. So I mean, I've used them and I've been quite happy with them. But now they can send them all to you too.

Jo  31:45  
I just love it. I love being happy. Having that opportunity to know that people have got all these photos, I've helped them and encourage them to organise them and get them sorted. And then I hand them back to them all scanned and backed up. And it's just, you know that that's just I love that

Lesley  32:03  
you just love your scanner.

Jo  32:06  
I do I need to name him actually. Him Eddie Epson scanner, maybe I'm gonna call him Eddie. Definitely.

Lesley  32:15  
So, do you know one of the things talking about and this is kind of jumps back a little bit, actually, to printed photographs. But one of the things that people are that I always encourage people to get rid of, and they look horrified is negatives. So if people are from a certain era, a certain generation, you can't it's been ingrained in you that you should always keep the negatives, hasn't it? So what are your thoughts on that?

Jo  32:41  
I think like you say it's the it's that generation where that was the only way having the negative was the only way you could reproduce that photograph, or that's not the case anymore. I think if we, I don't know quite what snappy snapped, or someone would do if we turned up with a negative, I'm sure they somehow have that ability still. But you don't need that, you know, you know, people can even you know, I'm talking about a scanner, but you can also just take a photograph on your iPhone or your smartphone to, you know, in the right light, you can get a copy of it like that. So therefore, it's very easy to duplicate that photograph and go into Photoshop or any other system and enhance it. So therefore, in actual fact, you don't need to keep the negatives. I think if someone was really against it, I would not be encouraging them to throw it away, but put them all in a photo safe box. Luckily, they're not obviously as big and bulky as printed photographs, and then keep them to one side. And I'm pretty sure that in a year, they would realise they're never going to need to go back to those and then they can they can go but no, they're not needed anymore. But absolutely hold on to them.

Lesley  33:47  
Exactly. It's just one of those things, isn't it that we've always done? And, and there's no problem with that. But I I'm glad where you and I are aligned in that show that we actually get rid of negatives. And right. Okay, so we've come to the end, I think about podcast. So we've talked about the sort of psychology and how difficult it is. We've gone through the ABCs methodology. And then we've talked about backing up scanning and digitization. What we've not spoken about which is really difficult actually is categorization and how you actually organise your photographs. But I think for me, and I don't know whether you agree, Jo, I think it's very much it's different for everybody, isn't it into you know, the way that you're categorise some people like to categorise chronologically. For some people, it makes sense to put all the holidays together. And so I don't think there's any hard and fast rule really, but I think for me, it would be just do some kind of categorization or filing. What would What do you think?

Jo  34:46  
No, I absolutely agree. I think it's like doing a photo book. It's the same thing. It's whether you're filing on your computer or, or creating a book. It's, it's it's dependent on whether you want as you said Have you want to go chronologically, which is actually a very difficult thing to do, I can't tell the difference between my school photo and when I was eight, or when I was nine, I can't tell you what year it was. So I don't know. And so it's very difficult to do that in in date order. Whereas if you just want to sort of date do school days, then you can put them all together, certainly in a photo book, you know, you can roughly sort of say this was the 1970s, I'm showing my age now. This is the 1970s, or this was the 1980s. Or you can thin it down. Oh, actually, I knew I was in America in 1983. Therefore it was then and you can categorise them like that. I think if you're talking, so that's my printed photos, digital photos, I think it's a lot easier. Because nowadays, they're automatically all dated. So then I will be putting them into more, you can do them in two months, you can do them into just leaving them and then putting them into holidays, or, you know, your favourites or special moments, things like that. So it's all everyone is different. One person might go, you know, just away for weekends, or one person might have a month holiday every year. And that's it. So it just depends on what people what people do. So I would always work with the client and make sure it's like any system, whether it's decluttering, or photograph organising, the system has to work for the client. It's not what I do. It has to work for what the client wants and what what suits their lifestyles. So I would just work around that. So how it seems the most logical to them. But definitely to categorise them and have them in some sort of order, for sure.

Lesley  36:31  
Definitely need to have some kind of order. I think that's the main the main message, isn't it, you can't just leave them and hope for the best 27,000 digital photographs. So Jo, we've come to the end. Thank you so much for your time. Do you want to tell people where they can find you if they want to know more about you, Jo?

Jo  36:49  
Yes, no, thank you. And thank you so much for having me, Lesley. So I'm a Jo Jacob. And my business is called Benella. And I'm on www.benella.co.uk and Facebook is a benellahomeorganisation. And the same on Instagram.

Lesley  37:06  
Oh, brilliant. Well, thank you, Jo. I really really appreciate it. It's always been fun. Always a pleasure to see you. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to listen listeners today as well. If you'd like more tips and advice, please follow us on social media. We're also on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook as the declutter hub, and also have a lively supportive Facebook group called the declutter hub community. We'd love to see you there. If you don't want to miss the next episode of The declutter podcast. Please subscribe to us on iTunes, Stitcher or Spotify, and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. Thanks so much for listening and see you next time.

Outro  37:41  
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