Episode 237 – Overcoming Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder

In this podcast we are so privileged to have a guest who is willing to share her story of living with a very full home. She says ”I have been a compulsive hoarder for as long as I can care to remember. As a child I was messy and just didn't understand how to tidy up. As an adult I lost the ability altogether.” We find out how living with hoarding behaviours has unfolded for her.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Lesley: Today we are so privileged to have a guest who is willing to share her story of living with a very full home. She says, I have been a compulsive hoarder for as long as I can care to remember, as a child, I was messy and just didn't understand how to tidy up. As an adult, I lost the ability altogether. Let's chat to her today and find out how life as someone with hoarding behaviors has unfolded for her. 

[00:00:23] Voiceover: You are listening to the Declutter Hub podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the lead in experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now, here's your host, Lesley Spellman.

[00:00:53] Lesley: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Lesley. We're delighted you're here to join us as part of your decluttering journey. So whether you are brand new today or you've been listening in to us for ages, we want to say a huge warm welcome and thank you. It means so much to us that you turn up every week to listen to and support us.

Whilst we talk all things decluttering and organising, we'd love to help more people with their quest for a clutter free home. And our podcast is a fantastic way for people to be inspired to take action. We have a favour to ask. If you like what you hear, be sure to hit the follow or subscribe button on your podcast player. Share us with your friends or leave as a review. Go to declutterhub.com/review to see exactly how to do that.

I'm super excited today to talk to our guest and we want to know a little bit about you. Before we start talking. We're going to talk about hoarding behaviors. That's what this podcast is all about, but I've always felt that. People are misunderstood often who have hoarding behaviors, and often it's very much they get labeled, right? That hoarder, which is the name of your podcast. So we'll come to that later. The hoarding lady lives down the road. It's all about the hoarding and less about the person. So before we start talking about those hoarding behaviors, you're very welcome here on the Declutter Hub Podcast. Thank you so much for coming. Tell us about you.

[00:02:15] That Hoarder: Thank you for having me. First of all, I have been a long-term listener and it's great to talk to you. Yeah, about me. I am a person who loves nature. I love going to the park. I love going into the woods and sitting with the trees. I like going to the sea. I love my friends. Spending time with my friends, going out for tea and cake with my friends. I drink a lot of tea. It's a theme in my life and, yeah. I love this question because I am a lot of things, and on my podcast I talk about hoarding and I talk about being a hoarder, but there is a whole life as well as that.

[00:03:05] Lesley: Exactly, and so you've become known for the podcast and you talk about that, but there's just, there's a person that sits behind that, and I think that's what we absolutely need to realise. And I love tea as well. We'll talk about, I'll talk about that. I've got so many kind of tea things, which I shouldn't have, I shouldn't be admitting to that. I'm like, I've got that one from there. That one from there. But no, that's fantastic. And I think say that it's a privilege and it absolutely is because quite often people with hoarding behaviors are quite secret. And don't want to share. And so I think it's a wonderful thing that you are doing to share your story with other people and to share your insights on what you've learnt over your years of hoarding behaviors.

Let's get started and talk about you've got this lovely life where you're going out and drinking tea and going to parks and um, and social enterprise work and things like that, that you do. Are you happy with where you are with the fact that you've got very full volumes of stuff in your home? Are you happy with that? Or is it, are you happy and other people are not happy? Tell me about that.

[00:04:08] That Hoarder: I am not happy with how I live, but I find it very difficult to make progress. I am in a position where I want things to change and I, and things are changing. I'm working hard, but it is slower than I would like. I get frustrated at my own slowness. I've. It's I've got two consciousnesses and one says, just get rid of the stuff.

But then when it comes to actually doing it it's always that bit harder than I anticipate or that bit slower. So I am, I'm not happy with it. I'm making changes without question, and having to put a podcast out every week means that I can't go into denial. I have to focus on the issue, and that helps me a lot, but the fact that I'm not happy with it is what's pushing me to make those changes.

[00:05:14] Lesley: So tell me a little bit about, if you don't mind, that you'd share a little bit about your story. Have you always had hoarding behaviors? Is this something that was triggered by something in your life? Did you have it as a child? Tell me a little bit about that.

[00:05:29] That Hoarder: So I was always messy. I was a very well behaved child, but the only thing I ever really consistently got into trouble for was having a messy bedroom. I just couldn't work out how to fix it. And I vividly remember one time my dad coming up to my bedroom and really trying to like actively teach me, this is how you do this. Where might you put this that would make sense? Let's have a think about where that should live. I didn't know why I found it so hard, but I couldn't make sense of what category things should be in, if there's a drawer for this kind of thing does it go in that drawer or that drawer?

And then I left home at 18 and again, carried on being messy. Some people you go to the house and they go, oh, I'm sorry. It's so messy. And there's one cup on a table and nothing else. And then there are people like I was who if you say I'm sorry, it's so messy. It's really quite messy.

I was on that end of the spectrum, and then a few years later I had a period of, it was a bit more than six months, where for various reasons I had no income for about six months and I was in a really deep depression at the time and could barely get out of bed, and so I couldn't.

I got a job but couldn't, I lasted, I think two days because I was so depressed. So I had no job, I had no money coming in and things were desperate for about six months and I knew that if I got rid of something and needed to replace it, I couldn't, I could barely get food. So I certainly couldn't replace a notebook or a bar of soap or anything that wasn't absolutely vital. And so that I think is when it changed for me from being messy and not really understanding how to organise to this place of desperation and keeping everything the kind of just in case justification was for that period true. If I need it, I can't replace it.

But then once that situation resolved and I was less depressed and I was able to get some money coming in, and I wasn't in desperate poverty. That kind of, no, I've got to keep hold of everything stuck, even though my situation had changed.

[00:08:31] Lesley: And it's not unusual. So that's not an unusual scenario at all. There has been a period of poverty in your life, whether that's poverty as a child or poverty later in life, that makes you then make that switch into what many would consider as being irrational, holding onto things. And so that's interesting. So what sort of age were you when that, when you went, when you sunk into that depression?

[00:08:53] That Hoarder: That was early twenties.

[00:08:55] Lesley: And so you see that very much as the trigger of, so a kind of combination of an inherent kind of messiness you had as a child. And I think, let's talk about your dad as well because that's a fantastic thing and that's very unusual for somebody to try and teach a child how to tidy is unusual.

And that's something that Ingrid and I talk about a lot, which is. We go tiny room to a child. And they're like, I don't know how to do that. And it's saying you need to be taught how to do these things and encouraged. And so I think that's fantastic. But that didn't work anyway because you couldn't work out how that all fitted together. And then to go into that, and then there's this poverty situation that's triggered toward in behavior.

[00:09:34] That Hoarder: Yeah, I think that occasion with my dad was absolutely born out of his absolute frustration with me. Like he was going, we're just going to knock this on the head because I can't cope. And he did try and I agree. Generally it's not taught. Life is never as simple as a, b, c. There's always intersecting issues, aren't there? And there were other traumas I have a diagnosis of PTSD related to other traumas. And also I am gay and that was very difficult when I was growing up in the eighties, that wasn't an easy time to be growing up, knowing that you are this thing that the world hates.

So that was difficult. So there was stuff I was coping with and not coping with and so I don't want to present it as a really simple progression of one thing, then another thing equals hoarder. It's never that simple as it, there's always mess, messy stuff, ironically. But yeah, that was the general, general picture.

[00:10:46] Lesley: You're so right about the fact that, cause sometimes we are privileged to, to be allowed into people's worlds and to understand the story, let's call it story for want of a better word, of that person and how that's unfolded. And sometimes, you know, even though we've heard these stories many times, we are astonished that you can even get our bed with all of their different things layered on top of each other that happen. And I think people don't understand that and that's why. People, really, many people don't understand hoarding behaviors and what that actually is and what that reflects underneath. And the stuff just becomes a comfort. It's something in principle that's not really going to let you down in the same way that perhaps a person will.

And so at the time that you buy it, It brings you that comfort until it doesn't, and that's the thing. And so we feel surrounded by stuff that's nice and gives us that little hit of a dopamine every now and again and then all of a sudden you look around one day and go, this is just not making me happy anymore.

And so I think it's important for people to understand that layering and yes, you have had triggers in your life that have led you to this place, but it's complex very complex. And so how has that, do you mind, I hope you don't mind me asking. How has that affected your relationships with other people? So you've talked about your dad and so he obviously struggled to see a messy child in inverted commerce and tried to fix that. So how did that relationship evolve later in life? Is he alive still or, so he's still alive?

[00:12:19] That Hoarder: No, my dad, my Mum's still alive. My dad died a few years ago.

[00:12:23] Lesley: Okay. And are they, so have you come, did you come from quite a tidy home?

[00:12:29] That Hoarder: Yes, it's interesting. It was tidy. Someone could pop in and nobody would panic. It was always very neat, but at the same time, they kept everything. It was one of those homes where if you opened a cupboard, there would be an avalanche of papers and photos and clothes that we'd grown out of as children. And so it was funny because to anybody visiting it looked really neat and tidy, but at the same time, I guess partly because, I mean it was a fairly, it was just an average semi-detached house, but it had space and it didn't look, they weren't hoarders.

But they, at the same time, there was always this kind of, oh, don't throw that away. Or we can recycle that, or we can, yeah. So tidy, but keeping stuff.

[00:13:27] Lesley: I think that's very typical and I think that's why we've got this such a big problem with stuff in the sort of 21st century, because you've got this real, you've got this kind of post-world war, post-war era of made to amend, keep. Everything and things weren't as available. Fast fashion wasn't really a thing. We bought stuff, it cost quite a bit of money and so we used to keep things much longer than we do now. And then we got the kind of abundance of stuff that came in the eighties, nineties, and noughties, and then we've got this clash cause we're keeping stuff and we're buying loads of stuff because it's now cheap and so there's a real clash in that, certainly in that generation your parents' generation.

So that's not unusual and that's something that we work through quite a lot as professional organisers. So the people that are in your world, whether it's your parents, your friends, your partners, do you feel that they understand you? Or has that impacted on relationships that you've had inside or outside the home?

[00:14:22] That Hoarder: I would say most, it's not something I don't talk with friends or family about hoarding. There's a kind of understood situation that people don't come to my house. If I'm meeting friends, I go to them or we go out. It's never spoken about, nobody's ever challenged it. It's just known that I don't invite people over.

Similarly, when my Mum visits, I pick her up at the station and we'd go out for lunch and we'd do something nice in the afternoon and that it used to be going back quite a few years when my house was more presentable. Still always cluttered, always messy, but more like somewhere I could have people over than I, I would, and it was, I think once you're an adult, certainly your parents to some degree have to stop telling you to tidy up because you're an adult and you're living in your own place and all of that.

So I think it was just, it just became something like if people came to my house, it was going to be a bit messy, but now it's just unspoken and I'm currently single. My last relationship handily started when I just moved house. So things were a lot more organised and together, and there was less of it.

But over the course of that relationship, things were building up in my house. We didn't live together.

She would gently say are you sure you need all these things? But at that stage, I was in a place where I thought that what I had was an organisation problem, not a volume problem. What I had was a volume problem, but I was convinced that if I could just work out how to organise it, I could keep everything.

So I wasn't at that stage any at all, aware of the scale of the problem. I was a bit in denial and a bit misunderstanding what was going on. It took a while to really grasp that it was more than a disorganisation problem.

[00:16:53] Lesley: Has it ebbed and flowed or has it just continually built?

[00:16:58] That Hoarder: The stuff?

[00:16:59] Lesley: Yes. Have you ever gone through a period of sorting stuff out and getting better or having low volumes and then it built up again?

[00:17:07] That Hoarder: the It is definitely ebbed and flowed in that over several years. I will get to a point where I say, I can't live like this. This is awful, and I will do some work on the house and then get overwhelmed. I realise how much there is to do and start thinking this is impossible, so there's no point trying.

So then I would step back from it and go back into denial for another six months and then come back to it. And I honestly think the reason that hasn't happened this time is because I have to produce a podcast every week and I can't go back into this is fine territory because I, yeah, I have to face it weekly, and so it keeps it in front of mind and makes me continually keep working.

[00:18:09] Lesley: Self-awareness. Doing a podcast is absolutely huge. And so you're going into all of the different facets of hoarding behaviors, which is so useful for you on your own journey and for the people as well.

[00:18:21] That Hoarder: Yeah, 100%. If I think I'm having real trouble with whatever issue, I will make a podcast about that. That means I have to research it, I have to learn about it. I have to see what people recommend. I have to see which bits of that advice might apply to hoarders and of you inevitably apply some of that to yourself.

And then when I interview experts, like I don't have a diagnosis of ADHD, but I spoke to somebody who had done some research into ADHD and hoarding, and I learnt things and I speak to therapists who specialise in it. Different people with all different specialisms and I'm learning all the time and it all helps me understand myself as well as helping listeners.

[00:19:10] Lesley: I want to talk about your breakthrough in a moment, but before we go to a break, can I just ask you whether anybody has ever offered you or given you help in your home?

[00:19:24] That Hoarder: Not well, yes, to a degree. A while ago I had a mental health worker who helped me a bit and she was great. The situation was less dire at that stage, but she was really helpful and supportive and helped me not just with the practicalities for a while, but also working with her made me see how difficult I find it and how challenging I found it and made me more aware.

But my thinking around stuff is maybe different to most people's thinking around stuff. And so even though she left her job and things changed, I think that started me in a process of better self-awareness.

[00:20:18] Lesley: Yeah. And it will be a long journey, but self-awareness is everything. And this learning that you're going and talking to experts and talking to people and doing the research, it's going to be continually these little mini light bulb moments going on in your brain that are all going to move you forwards, which is a fantastic thing. And so I know you did have a breakthrough in terms of understanding that you did have hoarding behaviors and what that looked like. And we're going to go to a break now, and we're going to come back and talk about that. 



[00:20:49] Lesley: So thank you everybody. Welcome back. So I'm conscious as I've had a little break that I am asking quite deep questions and that might be quite triggering for you.

Is it something that you've been interviewed about in the past? So I know you've got your own podcast, but normally you are in the driving seat. Okay. I would think. But is it something that you've talked about in the past?

[00:21:13] That Hoarder: To a limited degree. I've done a couple of interviews with the media recently. And there are other things potentially in the pipeline, and it's a balance. It's always a balance because on the one hand, I'm not going to. I have enough boundaries to not put myself in a position where I feel really uncomfortable.

Like we had a chat beforehand and there was one thing I said I wouldn't go into and you were fine with that. But equally, I think pushing myself a little bit, whether that is here talking to you, whether it's on my own podcast, feels okay on the basis. My bit of discomfort can produce things that are really helpful to other people, and also to prove to myself that I can tolerate discomfort, which could be a real thing in hoarding.

People are so scared of distress that they won't look at their stuff because it might cause distress. And so I find it quite important in my life in a safe, boundaried way to make sure that I don't avoid all discomfort at all times.

[00:22:30] Lesley: You know, you raise a very valid point there. I mean, I've been a guest on your podcast as well and we talked quite a lot in depth in terms of the relationship between a professional organiser and somebody who has hoarding behaviors. And one of the things that I was sort of explaining is that our job is very much to try and eek you.

And I say that in a nice way, a little bit out of your comfort zone without going too far, then it's going to become distressing. So I think it's a journey. It's going to involve you doing things you don't want to do. If you remained in your comfort zone, nothing would ever change. And it's so important to know that you, there are times when you're going to feel discomfort and you sometimes you have to kind of run with it a little bit and then reflect on it and see how that went.

And sometimes it's going to be, no, that was too much or too fast, or, too many decisions and sometimes it's going to be, do you know what? I actually feel okay. And to put myself out of that comfort zone has actually worked for me and that gives you the opportunity to be a little bit braver the next day or something like that.

So it is this kind of ebbing and flowing really of in and out of your comfort zone. So yeah, it's an important one. We talked about the fact that you'd had a breakthrough. So obviously you had experience of working with a social worker who came in to help you, and that was a positive experience, but probably short lived.

But I know you shared with me that you had therapy and that was quite a big break, breakthrough for you as well. So I'd love to know a little bit more about that. Obviously not the ins and outs of what you said, but more about how the process works, and whether it was a revelation for you and how it moved you forward.

[00:24:04] That Hoarder: I had CBT for hoarding and I did not want to, but I was in a position where my landlord found out how things were in my home and I was the housing officer said this needs to be addressed. I'm going to refer you to, it's called IAPT in this country. You can self-refer for a brief period of therapy and it's increasing access to psychological therapies, something like that. But anyway, she said, I'm going to refer you to IAPT. And I did not want to do this, but at the same time, I knew I had to show willing because I was essentially in trouble with my landlord and I knew I needed to show that I was willing to make progress.

So I went. So I had an initial period of support that wasn't very helpful, but then I was referred for CBT and I went into it thinking that CBT is. People present it as like a solution to every ill, every problem can be addressed by CBT. So I thought it was going to be really generic and wouldn't apply and, but that I had to do it for the sake of my housing situation.

But I was genuinely surprised by how helpful it was. And there are things, it's a couple of years now since I had it, and there are things I still use daily that I learned from CBT. So things like what would happen before is I would say, right, I'm going to go and do some tidying in that room. And then I would walk into that room and immediately just go, nope.

And walk out again and stop. And what CBT taught me to do was question that and say, why? Why can you not do it? And when I started doing that, I would be able to identify, okay, it's cause I feel overwhelmed or it's because the thing I had in mind is a particularly difficult category of stuff and once I was asking myself those questions, if I identified that it was overwhelm, I could go, oh, I have strategies for overwhelm and start looking at that.

Or if I identified it was, cause it was a particularly difficult category of stuff, I could say could you do something in a different category of stuff? It changed things. And the other thing that really helped was she would kind of give me tasks to do between sessions and I would be all, but what if I can't do it?

What if it doesn't work? What if? Because like many hoarders, I'm quite a perfectionist and I get anxious that if I can't do it perfectly, I shouldn't bother doing it at all. So she would present the tasks between sessions as experiments. So it wasn't something I was going to pass or fail, it was something I was going to see how it worked.

And then the next week we would say, okay. That bit worked. Let's look at why or that bit didn't work. Let's look at how we can do that differently and I still regularly, if I'm feeling stuck and I'm feeling like, I don't know how to do this properly, if I can say, just experiment with doing this, that I don't feel like I'm committed to something.

I don't feel like it's a pass or fail. I'm just seeing, and then that opens up more possibilities. So things like that were really helpful. And also that was the first time I openly talked with anybody about hoarding as an issue. And I found that very difficult.

But it was quite revolutionary for me because it wasn't something I'd talked about before, and even though I was strong armed into the process, it surprised me by how helpful it was.

[00:28:22] Lesley: And just to put into context then what sort of age are you at this? I'm just trying to work out the kind of trajectory of this.

[00:28:29] That Hoarder: Yep. I'm 45 now. That, so that was, yeah, I was 42, 43, something like that.

[00:28:35] Lesley: So you lived with that for quite a long time before you had your first initial breakthrough. But I think the interesting thing is that with any decluttering journey is there's not one methodology. There's not one thing. You have to have all of the tools, whether that's strategy, whether that's kindness, whether it's empathy, a bit of accountability, consistency, community, all of those things are so important and they all gel together to create something.

And some people are going to take more of it from certain bits, and some people are going to gel with others. And I think that's so important that within that CBT process, there was at least two or three also quite forgiving. I love the idea of experiments and framing it in that way it's great.

Do you know what I mean? And so, in the Declutter Hub we're also like that. We know that accountability is a big thing. So every month we're like, accountability thread, pop your goals in if you want to for, because we know that some people are going to work with that, but we're not did you do them and beat you over a stick if you didn't?

It's your own personal accountability and we will try and encourage you and ask you how that's gone and hope that you've learned from those, from whether you were too ambitious with your goals. What was good. What was, what didn't work? And to learn from that for next goals. And I think that's important that experimentation is so important, but it's comforting then that you found that CBT did take you forward. This is not a quick fix, right? This is going to be probably a lifelong journey

[00:30:08] That Hoarder: Yeah.

[00:30:08] Lesley: It's just about making those steps forward.

[00:30:11] That Hoarder: Yeah, it's not a situation. I wish it was a situation where you have a breakthrough realisation and then everything's fixed within three months. It's really not like that. It's very much ups and downs and ups and downs, and hopefully the progress is always going in the right direction, but even within that, it's not smooth sailing.

[00:30:35] Lesley: So you've talked about the fact that you've had a breakthrough in terms of understanding your problematic thoughts. You're doing a lot at the end of the day. You're doing a lot of self work with your podcast, with your therapy. You are really delving deep into that emotional connection to stuff and trying to understand it. How does that present with the progress that you are making?

[00:30:59] That Hoarder: It's really interesting, I think in terms of my thinking both in terms of that CBT stuff and also my attitude and feelings about stuff have progressed quite dramatically compared to a few years ago. I'm a lot better at getting rid of things that a few years ago I'd have really struggled to get rid of. I'm a lot better at making those decisions.

What holds me back the most now is the logistics, the practicality. I can make a decision for something to go, but if there's a lot to go working out how that should, how that can work. When your bins full, your bins full and um, my thinking has definitely progressed. I get attached to weird things a lot less. One example I often use is I used to have a real thing I used to keep torn like used envelopes because I really like, you know, they have this squiggly patterns on the inside so people can't read through the paper and they used to make arty things with the squiggly patterns but that meant I kept every envelope and I wasn't making that much squiggly art.

It was the odd, bit of squiggly art, but I couldn't get rid of any envelope because it had the potential to become art and that kind of thing. I get a lot less caught up in those decisions but it's just the practicality of having a house full of stuff and working out how to deal with that. That's, yeah, that's my biggest tripping point now, I think.

[00:32:49] Lesley: I think it, I think you're right because it is. And I love that you've made that emotional breakthrough, because that's 70% of the job, more probably.

[00:32:56] That Hoarder: Yeah.

[00:32:58] Lesley: The still logistics, still standing away and it's not easy even as professionals when we're working in a home with very full volumes, we've got to, it, the process works completely differently.

We've just done a room of doom training in our membership, and I, and I obviously accept that you've got more than one room of doom, if that's what you want to call it. But we just call it that, just for ease. But I think it's really about logistics. You know, it's not about when we did our training, we said everything that you're going to come across in your room of doom, you've already covered in the rest of the roadmap in terms of emotions.

What we're talking about in a room of doom is the logistics of how do you actually get to a stage where you can categorize where you've got space to work, where it's safe to work, and where you can keep that momentum going through these very. Big volumes. That's what a room of do, or a house that's got, that's being hoarded is all about.

It's logistics. It's tricky and it's about finding those big wins, but it's hard. So you're still at that process of doing, is it something that you're working on with regularity?

[00:33:59] That Hoarder: Yeah, I find I have periods when I'm very motivated and I do a lot and I have periods when sometimes it's just life you know, very busy or tired and I don't do as much. Sometimes it's, I'm less motivated. I have a principle now that whichever of those stages I'm in, my core principle is it must not get worse.

So the very least I do is make sure it doesn't get worse, I try to always be making progress I try to balance between having like routines. But that are quite flexible. I don't respond brilliantly to set in stone at four o'clock you do this and it's like, so I have to work to some degree with how I'm feeling. You can't only work on it when you are inspired because you can't be inspired every day for three years. So it's about a balance between when I am inspired going with it and doing as much as I can to take advantage of that feeling, but also having some structures in place so that there's still some progress happening, even if I'm not super motivated.

[00:35:19] Lesley: It's really interesting cause that's almost in, in our world, that would be the difference between a kind of decluttering project and a daily reset. And one of the things that we talk about with our daily resets is, that you've got to find a time that's going to work in general for you, and it needs to become non-negotiable.

So I think it's interesting that you say there are times of the day when I'm better than others, and so you've got to work that out. So that's going to be. Is going to be quite prescribed by for people who have to go to work nine to five or have got kids or do a night shift or whatever. But if your days are a little bit more flexible, but you can still work out your energy levels, your medication and when you want your home to be at, its kind of best , for arguments sake.

And so I think it's important to work that out. And if you know that you are. You are very self-aware. I I love that you know that you are so self-aware and you'll be understanding these things and going. Maybe I just need to do it when I fancy, but sometimes that doesn't help you. Cause if you don't ever fancy it, it's never... 

[00:36:17] That Hoarder: Yeah, 

[00:36:17] Lesley: going to...

[00:36:18] That Hoarder: exactly.

[00:36:19] Lesley: So there's certain things in life that have to become, I've got to do it at some point, and that might be some point I think that it's going to be in the afternoon, is going to suit me better or before, or I'm a bit of a night owl and I prefer to do it before I go to bed.

I know that the more early morning's not going to work, but it has to be, I've got to do it at some point, right? And I'm talking about the sort of tidying up bit of it. But then the decluttering project, you have to do that when you're in the right mindset. And that might be a smaller project.

It's, and it's working out how long is sensible for me? Am I about going out in bigger bursts? I want to do it smaller. All of those things. And I'm sure you've got all that completely worked out. I could sit and talk here to you all day. I find it brilliant that you have a podcast that you're sharing your story with other people in a very at the end of the day we talk about decluttering, which is quite niche. We understand that. You then take it one step further and talk about situations that are a little bit more crisis led, sometimes very full homes. And it's so important for people, whether it's clutter, whether it's hoarding, whatever that is, to know that there are other people around, around feeling the exact same thing.

That's very comforting for people. And so to know that you've got that out in the world, and I know loads of people are going to jump straight over from the de, I hope they're going to leave us like, don't leave us. But I love that if people have got that additional struggle with hoarding behaviors I really hope that they're going to come and listen. You've got a very calming sooth voice. A little bit different. I've tried to be calm today.

I'm really interested in, so you've listened to many of our podcasts. I'm interested to know whether you see, do you listen to those and go, that would never work for me. That would never work for me. That's just so far away from my life that I can't even imagine what they're talking about. Or do you see some of those strategies, certainly the emotional side of things, the way that we teach decluttering working for somebody who's got hoarding behaviors? Or do you see them as completely separate?

[00:38:13] That Hoarder: There are definitely links. I think the interesting thing with your podcast is it's really varied. So there are episodes that are about, say, organising a very specific thing, organising your underwear drawer, you've got an episode on that and that's the kind of thing that maybe in five years I'll need to look at, but at this stage, organising my underwear drawer would be like a bit pointless. But I feel like still it is good. I still listen to those specific ones because there is still might be little skills that I get out of it or little ideas that I get out of it that I can apply on a wider scale.

But then other episodes of yours that I would say are more applicable for people who hoard are the ones that look, as you say, at the emotional side of things or like the logistics side of things. Or mindset, anything like that. And even if somebody who hoards has to apply it on a different scale to your average listener, I think there are always things we can take from it and it may, you might think that wouldn't work for me, but maybe I could do this.

So even if it isn't directly applicable, it can still spark ideas. But I do think a lot of it. People have weird attachments to stuff. A lot of people have weird attachments to stuff, and hoarders may have that to a much bigger degree. We may feel attachments to torn envelopes but it's still, it's the same issue. It's a matter of scale. A lot of the time.

[00:39:59] Lesley: Exactly. I would completely agree with that. And so, you know, quite often when people come into our membership, they're like, is this going to work for me because I'm actually a hoarder? And we're like, yes, it will work. The principles are the same. If you want to learn how to do that on your own and the thing about it is, They want to change.

So they've made that decision that they're ready to change and so they've broken through that emotional barrier and then we can teach them things and some things are not going to work. As you say, some people, some things are going to take a lot longer and to work through. So it's going to be a longer journey.

But it's going to be an interesting journey because it's life is all about those light bulb moments and that self-awareness. Now, as I said, I could sit here and talk to you all day, but we can't do that. But I very much see another podcast coming soon. 

[00:40:46] That Hoarder: I'd be up for that. 

[00:40:47] Lesley: I would love for you to come back at some point and we'll delve a little bit more maybe into the logistics or the actual mechanics of what you're doing and how you're doing it.

Or some other things that we can think about. But before we go, I'd really like to ask you. Do you ever see your life as being free of an excess of things?

[00:41:04] That Hoarder: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I hope that is in my future and I'm working towards that and I feel like I'm laying the right foundations for that to be the case. And so I hope that is in my future, but I can't say, I never have moments where I think this is pointless. I can't do it. It's too hard. I don't know how to handle this. It's too much. I'm never going to be free of this stuff. I flip between the two.

[00:41:38] Lesley: Right. Okay. That's good to know. Good to know. It's, it is interesting. It's just where one day you're going to think one thing and one day's going to think something else depending on how your mood's going and how your progress is going. And it's the same with decluttering. Sometimes it just gets too much. And one of the hard things is just keeping up that momentum, particularly when you've got a very full home.

So I want to say a huge thank you to you for coming on as a guest today. It's been so insightful. I love that you're sharing your story with people because honestly, it'll make such a big difference. Do go and listen to your podcast. Where can people find that?

[00:42:14] That Hoarder: Everything is at overcomecompulsivehoarding.co.uk or if you just search for overcome compulsive hoarding with that hoarder in whatever podcast app you use, hopefully it will pop up there.

[00:42:28] Lesley: Fantastic. So go and see it and we will link to that obviously in all the show notes and things and in all our socials. So talking about our socials, we want you to tell us if you are feeling brave, then tell us if you live in a very full home, have you ever reached out to ask anybody for help? And how has that gone?

We know it's some good and some bad, but we'd like to see some positive stories too. Do let us know on our socials. Next week we are talking about something that I'm pretty sure our guest today has got some of these in their home. We are talking about how to declutter books, so am I right?

[00:43:00] That Hoarder: One or a few hundred thousand. Yeah.

[00:43:03] Lesley: Yeah, we've never done a podcast on books before. We've got loads of stuff in our membership, but never done a podcast on it. So next week we are delving into books and people will be like, Lesley and Ingrid, stay clear of my books. I'm not decluttering any. So do tune in. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to our guest and we will see you next week.

[00:43:21] Voiceover: Thanks so much for listening to the Declutter Hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode, and we'll see you next week.
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Recent Posts
Episode 243 – 10 things to declutter from your utility room

Episode 242 – How to overcome decluttering roadblocks

Episode 241 – How to use a planner to get organised with guest Monique Sveinsson

Episode 240 – How to declutter books

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Episode 237 – Overcoming Compulsive Hoarding with That Hoarder

Episode 243 – 10 things to declutter from your utility room

Episode 242 – How to overcome decluttering roadblocks

Episode 241 – How to use a planner to get organised with guest Monique Sveinsson

Episode 240 – How to declutter books

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