Episode 372 – The Opposite of Swedish Death Cleaning with Guest Alison Binney

Ingrid: What really happens when you're faced with the emotional task of emptying a childhood home? In today's episode, we're joined by Alison Binney, who has captured the complexity of this experience in her recent written poetry collection, the opposite of Swedish Death Cleaning. Alison shares what it was like to clear her father's house with her brother while he was in a care home living with dementia.

It's a journey filled with memories, lost laughter, and reflection, and we'll talk about her decluttering journey and how her book with poetry came about.

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid.

Lesley: And I am Lesley. Now, if you are here for the very first time today, or you've been listening in for ages, we want to say a huge thank you we have a little favour to ask.

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Hi Alison. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you for being here.

Alison: Thank you so much for having me. It's lovely to be here.

Ingrid: it's a bit interesting how our worlds have aligned, right? Because I think you heard us on Women's Hour, the, radio show that Lesley Hour invited to as guests, and then a little while later I got an email from you saying. I listened to you on Women's Hour. I think we should, can we have a conversation about my book?

And I was intrigued because your book is with poems and that's not really my thing, but it intrigued me because of the title. What's the title, Alison?

Alison: So the title is The Opposite of Swedish Death Cleaning. and Your Woman's. Our podcast really appealed to me because my book had just been published. So that whole idea of decluttering was on my radar. and then I would say that, until I had to sort and clear my dad's house, I wasn't really a decluttering person.

So I feel like our worlds have aligned in a really weird way. yeah.

Ingrid: Wonderful, You reached out, we had a chat and I said to Lesley, we need to get Alison on the podcast because she's got so ma much, so many good things to share with us. So my idea is, Alison, that before the break we'll talk about your whole decluttering journey and what happened with, your dad's house.

But definitely I do would love for our listeners to hear, two of the poems that were in the book, and that really resonated with me as well. So we'll do that after the break. So tell us a bit more what happened. Why are you suddenly in the decluttering realm?

Alison: Sure. my journey with this started exactly three years ago, almost to the day, so July, 2022. my dad had started to develop dementia just before the pandemic, and then I. I think the pandemic was really, unhelpful for that because he lost his kind of routine and his social contact with people.

the development of his dementia was a bit faster, through the pandemic to the point where, by the, the autumn of 2021, he, we began to worry. My brother and I began to worry was he safe in his own home? And then in the spring of 2022, he went into hospital and we realized, it's really not safe for dad to be in his own house anymore.

he lived on his own. So he lived in, a four bedroom house, which was our family home. And, my mom had died in 2004. So he'd lived there, on his own for all that time. And, then, it took a while to find the right care home for him, but he moved into a care home. In early May of 2022. And then, my brother and I realized that we needed to sell his house to pay for the care home fees.

and suddenly we looked around at the house and we were like, it's our responsibility to sort and clear this. but we felt that we couldn't start straight away because it was quite emotional, him moving into the care home. And, I guess although we knew that it was very final to move there, it felt a bit disrespectful to straight away.

Kind of tidy up his house. So I think we left it for a couple of months, so that he could come back. And then when it was really clear that he wasn't going to, there was just a day in July when I thought I need to start on clearing his house. my dad was like, in some ways a very tidy person and a man of routine, but.

I know from your podcast there's, you've used the phrase clutter blindness, and I think he had that, and I think we had that because it was only when he was out of the house that we noticed how much stuff there was. So the lounge was fairly tidy, but I opened the garage door and literally it was floor to ceiling.

Cardboard boxes. so I think since my mom had died, he hadn't thrown away a single piece of cardboard. So every Amazon box, every wrapping paper inside, he just chucked it in the garage, along with paint pots, rolls of carpet, rolls of wallpaper. So there's just stuff there. My mom had died, as I said, years before.

and, And my, there were parts of the house that were very much hers that my dad hadn't touched since she died. So she had, a, the smallest room was a sewing room. All her sewing stuff was still in there exactly as she'd left it. and then the kitchen, because my mom had been like the main cook in the house, my dad had coped well on his own, but he would never like bake or use spices and so on.

So literally like a spice rack where. The, sell by date on the spices was in the 1990s, and this was 2022 and all her sugar and flour and all of that in tubs. So it was completely overwhelming. and I know your podcast helps people to declutter their own houses, but it's really different when it's not your house.

and then there was the,

Ingrid: it, is, your house because it was your child at home, but it isn't.

Alison: yeah, exactly. And you feel like because it's your parents' house, you feel sometimes still like a child, am I allowed to go through this stuff? I was, I was about 50 at the time, but I, felt like it was the most grownup thing I ever did was to

do that transition from childhood into adulthood by actually clearing my dad's house and 'cause he had dementia and so his memory had gone so much.

My brother and I were both on the same page, and we both decided that we couldn't tell him what we were doing with his house because it would've really upset him, then he would've forgotten, And then it would've not been kind. That felt strange because on the, so I live about 60 miles away from my dad's house, so I would go over to the house, spend hours sorting and clearing it.

Then I'd go and visit my dad and just talk about the weather or the garden. I wouldn't be able to tell him what I had just been doing. So that was really weird.

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. So you only, I assuming he could only take a very small amount of his belongings with him to the Caron. So did you help him choose the things or did you know which were the super important things for him?

Alison: That's a good question. it was a, a smallish room that he moved into, but we thought about the pictures to put on the walls. So there was a painting of Ely Cathedral that we knew he really liked, so we moved that with him. And then, we thought it was important for him, to have photographs, particularly still photographs of my mom to keep the memory of her still alive.

and then just like small objects, that, he could still hold and touch and, so it was like a very small scale version of his house that we put into his room.

Ingrid: Yeah. Interesting. So you then already did almost like the best of the best went with

Alison: Him, yeah.

Ingrid: and you knew that's the right thing for him to have. But of course you can't fit a four bedroom house in a care home, and everybody realizes that. But then you were left indeed with the rest of the house.

Alison: Yeah. Yeah. And, it was the most overwhelming experience I've ever had, and I think that's one of my motivations to come on the podcast is because I know that this is not an uncommon experience, and it was so daunting. And what I want to share with people is that it was okay. Like it took eight months, partly because I don't live there, so I had to keep traveling back and forth.

Took eight months, but. I'm really glad that we did it. and and I learned so much along the way. So I think, I'd started with the garage initially because I thought that's the least sentimental part of the house. And it was easy in a way to rip up cardboard boxes and so on. But after several hours, I'd hardly made a dent in it at all.

then there were other bits of the house like. The kitchen, which I think in your own house, the kitchen can, is not particularly sentimental. Maybe in my parents' house, the kitchen was my mom's part of the house, so I really had to be in the right mood to do that, and to open jars of things that she was the last person to close.

20 years ago. what I, realized was that there were different kind of jobs to do in his house. Some were very practical, like flattening boxes. Some were very sentimental, some were very like going through my dad's admin. And I had to feel in the right mood on a particular day.

So one day I might feel like, yes, I can face my mom's kitchen today and I needed to do it when I was in that mood. Another day I would have loads of physical energy and I would just do loads of trips to the tip with cardboard, so

Ingrid: Yeah.

Alison: I guess a thing I learned was there's different kinds of energy and there's different kinds of jobs that you can face.

And if you don't feel like you can face one job on a particular day, it's okay because there'll be another day. When that will be exactly the thing that you can do. So

Ingrid: Yeah.

Alison: like you, I know you're very good at breaking stuff down for people into steps. It's the same, like I, I couldn't look at it as a massive hole.

I had to look at it bit by bit, I think.

Ingrid: Yeah,

Makes complete sense. And all this time, was it just you and your brother or did you employ some, a, skip, or did you have some men help you drag stuff out? Or did you, how, did you do it all?

Alison: Yeah, mostly it was just us and our partners. but my brother and I, although we are really different in personality and in interest, when it came to my dad or his house, we were very on the same page, but also, complimented each other. So my brother. My brother wasn't really interested in the sentimental things or the bits that I was really curious about, like what is in my dad's study, what is in the filing cabinet.

My brother wasn't really interested, but he was very good at like finishing off the garage and finding out like, where can we take the empty pots of paint and the chemicals and stuff. So we worked as a team really well. I

Ingrid: Yeah.

Alison: and then we employed a clearance company right at the very end. So I think the process was us spending the time like working out, like what do we either need to go through and keep for ourselves or know that's there and photograph or rehome and sort that.

Then meanwhile we were noticing what's the stuff that just needs to go but that we need to get clearance people to do so. we started in July. I think the clearance people then came early March, and by that time I felt really confident that the clearance people could come and there would be nothing they would get rid of that I cared about.

So then the clearance people then brought the skip and then, and I met the clearance people and then I got out. 'cause I thought, I don't want to see things that, part of the, literally the furniture of my parents' house, their bed. I don't wanna see that in a skip, it's too hard. I left them to it and then, After they had finished, and then they took the remaining things to, to an auction. that was sort the process. I didn't understand until it happened, but they, worked out what could be auctioned off and then they took, it to a local auction, and then they got in touch with an itemized list of like how much things had fetched.

And then it turned out. That there was the, cost of the clearance. But actually we made a small profit on the things that had sold at auction. and then about a week after that, I just had this like burning desire to go back into the house because I needed to see it empty. and I was worried like, is that gonna feel like awful to see it empty?

And it was incredible because I would say that it wasn't empty. It was a spring day, it was April. It was full of sunlight and it was like full of potential. It was like this house is ready for the next chapter. And I felt because it had taken us so long and because we'd done a careful job, I could let, go of the house at that point,

Ingrid: I'm, just, I've got goosebumps, I love that. I love that, that it is like ready for a new

Alison: Yeah. Yeah.

Ingrid: and I think that's. Fantastic. And that you had such a good collaboration with your brother as well and that you were able to take the time. That's, of course. I think the main thing, the time is, was on your side here.

I know the house had to be sold, but it didn't have to all be done in four weeks flat.

Alison: Exactly. Yeah, that would've been hard. And I'm a teacher, so I can't take time off outside of school holidays, so I had to do it at those times.

Ingrid: yeah.

Alison: And then I, I think, a couple of other things that I learned was, so we had to be really selective about what we kept because, my dad had this four bedroom house.

I have a two bedroom flat, my brother has a small house. so I. I learned that maxim about quality over quantity and like choosing just the small things that would sum up a lot rather than filling up the house with things. And sometimes I knew, like sometimes I would know a thing that I really wanted and sometimes I would think that there was something I really needed to keep and then I'd get it back to my house.

And in my house it didn't mean anything. And then I'd live with it for a week and then I'd be like, I don't need this anymore. But I photographed. I think another tip is I took photos of so many things that we didn't keep. Then I feel like I've got them, but not in a way that's, that takes up space.

Ingrid: Yeah. So what are the things, what are a few of the things that you kept that were important to you? I'm interested in that.

Alison: a few of my mom's kitchen things, which is lovely because they're things that I then use. I've got one here. This is my mom's tablespoon, and she was such a cook, and it's so then I'm cooking with her, cooking things. one of the poems in the collection is about. spices.

'cause I just looking at my mom's spice rack was such a memory of cooking with her. And, some of them were just old, ordinary jars. But she had these Cornish spice jars that were, I know were a wedding present, so then they're, they are my spice jars now, and that's just a really lovely thing.

my parents were both teachers and I'm a teacher, so actually when I found their chalk, because they were teaching in the era of chalk, it was lovely. this was my mom's chalk tin. And inside, like the sticks of chalk, which I wrote the

Ingrid: yeah. Yeah.

Alison: I love that, like the smallest one, she's, 'cause she was so thrifty, she's worn it right down to the stone.

so it was just, it, wasn't even things that are particularly valuable, but it was things that they touched and handled, I think that really mattered to me. and being selective. So I, my grandma was a great letter writer. I found a lot of her letters, but I decided to keep one and it's not even the like a significant letter.

It's not even about some massive thing. It was the most ordinary letter, but I felt like that one letter, it summed up everything about my grandma and how she would write. I didn't need a hundred because would never have looked at a hundred.

Ingrid: did you read them all to decide which one you kept?

Alison: I didn't have time. I skimmed them. and then I did, but there are other things, and I think this is my other kind of key learning from it, was the things that are really sentimental. We did actually get a storage unit, which is in a farmer's field in Norfolk, so shipping container and because I felt like there were so many decisions that we were having to make about the house and the stuff.

It was like decision fatigue. And when there were things that we really felt this has a lot of sentimental value, like loads of photos, but we just didn't have the time or the head space to sort them. We have put them in that storage for now just to delay that decision making. And one day we will have to then go to the storage and make those decisions.

But it wasn't the right time to do all of that. that's the final stage of the process, I think. Yeah.

Ingrid: yeah. So some of the mainly sentimental items that, exactly what you're describing, it was just too much because you had to bring this house over the

line. So you've found, but I'm assuming if it's photographs, it's not because there's no massive amount of furniture. It's not a massive unit, is

Alison: No, it's small. Yeah, it's really small. and it's things like, I think of it like, when you, I dunno if you do this, if you put leftovers in the fridge and then they sit there for a bit and then you don't end up eating them, but you they have to sit there a bit and then if you want to eat them or not.

I feel like if there's stuff, if when we go to the storage, there's stuff that we can't even remember is in there. We don't need it. but it just, delayed some of the most difficult decisions, that helped us. And also I think there may be things in there where, for my brother and I, we might need to have a discussion about who has it, it delayed that as well.

Ingrid: So is your father still in the care home?

Alison: He is in the care home. Yeah. and he does still remember my brother and I, which is really nice. he doesn't speak very much anymore, but he really likes it when I read to him, so that's really nice. And one of the things I do is I take some of the children's books from the house that he read to me and I read them to him in the Care home.

So that's another nice link.

Ingrid: Yeah, definitely. speaking about reading a great way to, have a little break because after the break I would love to hear more about, the poetry book that you wrote. So let's have a short break and we'll be right back.

Hello, listeners, welcome back. I don't know how about you, but I've been absolutely like hanging on every word Alison has been telling us so far, and I hope you are enjoying this podcast too. But as we mentioned at the start, Alison wrote a poetry book about her whole experience, and it's called The Opposite of Swedish Death Cleaning, which.

It is, I find fascinating. Why did you decide on that title, Alison, first of all?

Alison: It goes back to that day, three years ago, in July 22, 22 because it, I took a tea break from sorting my dad's garage and I. Advice for clearing a parent's home. I was just time wasting really. And I was also thinking, can somebody help me with this? And, when I Googled, I found loads of useless things and I found amongst the articles an article about Swedish Death Cleaning, which I know you've done, podcasts about.

Idea that in middle age, maybe about my age, you go through your own stuff and downsize. And I read this and I was thinking, dad, why did you not do this? Because if he had done it, 30 years ago when he was fit and well, I wouldn't have had to do it. And I, had this idea in my head of a Swedish woman.

Whose dad had Swedish death cleaned. And then she would go into his house and it would be so empty and it would be dead easy. And I was so envious of this imaginary woman. and then I started to think of a poem about it. and then, as, but as I sorted and cleared his house over eight months, I actually realized that I didn't envy her at all because it.

Actually would've been really quite sterile and clinical to go into his house and it was empty. it was so valuable for me to have that journey of going through his things. It was the opposite of Swedish death cleaning, which is what I called the poem and then the book. But I think it was one of the most, healing things that I've ever done, particularly in the relationship with my mum who had died all those years ago.

My dad had not particularly talked about her after she died, but it was a real way that I connected with her. so it became the title of the collection and actually on the front of the book cover, my friend Kate, who did the cover has, made this collage outta some of the objects from my dad's house, which is another really nice way of capturing them.

So

Ingrid: definitely. I would love for you to read Swedish Death leading the poem for us. So you've got the floor.

Alison: Okay, thank you. The opposite of Swedish death cleaning. Lately I conjure a woman in Stockholm, opening her father's front door into laminate light, the scent of lemons. Crossing the hall to his study, she finds the folder marked Dodd in an otherwise empty desk and heads for the kitchen. One chair, one mug, one teaspoon, one coffee filter left.

I want an antonym for Dosag these days, but we are not Swedish and this is messy. You in the home? Not yet dead. Me. Frisking Your house for Lady Bird books and egg cups stamp albums, paperweights and Pebbles for 50 nubs of Imperial leather soap. My Swedish double rinses. Her father's mug leaves it to drain while she makes a few calls, then slips it into her bag.

Perhaps it will hold her toothbrush, perhaps on the train home. A line from a bedtime poem will hum for a moment, then mumble itself to sleep.

Can I just say about the Imperial leather soap that I mentioned there, which is, it appears on the, in the middle of the cover. So one of the things that I discovered in my dad's house, and it's one of the ways in which he was tidy and a hoarder, is that under his bathroom sink, he had, a plastic, like a Tupperware tub.

It had like about 50 of these imperial leather soap pens in. Every time he'd got to the end of a soap, he'd just stuck it in the box. And I, dunno what he ever thought he was gonna do with them, but, it was just a random thing, but I kept one of them because it just smells of him and it's just really nice.

Again, it's a small thing, but it's a way of keeping the memory of him.

Ingrid: yeah, Had you ever considered helping your dad sort more stuff out in his house after your mom had passed away?

Alison: Yeah. in the first few months after my mom died, the two things that he did want to sort were her books and her clothes, and we did her clothes together actually, and. And that was a really important thing to do together. I think. it was a kind of a stage of his grief, I think, to, sort through those things and take them to the charity shop.

and I think, I thought at the time that was the beginning of a process that might then lead to the kitchen or the sewing room. But it, stopped. And actually, I didn't mind then because I think maybe we all liked that her sewing room was just the same. maybe it was important to have that part of the house that was her.

And then we just lived with it. And then it was that kind of clutter, blindness that, I really like that phrase. And then I think maybe 10 years ago, at one point I might have thought, gosh, one day there's gonna be a lot to do in this house, but, I also know that my dad was so methodical that doing it with him, it would've been.

Very slow. because, and, he wouldn't have wanted to get rid of anything. We would've had a conversation about everything in the house, and he would've found a reason to keep everything. And the older he got, the more it would've been like that. So in a way, doing it without him was, actually easier, I think.

Yeah. Yeah.

Ingrid: Oh my gosh. Thank you for sharing so much with us, Alison, because I think so many people will resonate with what you're with. You're what you're sharing with us now. The sewing room keeps coming up.

Alison: Yeah. Yeah.

Ingrid: about the sewing room?

Alison: It was just, so my mom and one of the uncanny things was that she had one of those like Taylor's dummies in there. So that when she was, a lot of the outfits she made were, for herself. So in her, she had early retirement because of ill health. 'cause she had cancer, but she was a magistrate for a couple of years.

She needed some suits and she made herself some suits. It was a, a. Cheap way of doing it. And she was really good at it. And she, so this Taylor's dummy was her exact dimensions, but what it meant was you could walk in the room and, almost feel like out of the corner of your eye. That was her. so that was weird, but also nice.

And then there was, so she had this huge chocolate box. It was like a. The, biggest milk tray, empty chocolate box you could imagine. But in each indentation there were sewing threads for embroidery in beautiful colors. And she said, she told me once that she had that because she remembered as a child playing on her granny's bed with her granny's sewing box that was in a, an empty chocolate box.

And she'd always wanted that, and there, there was her button box and then loads of material and. Cuddly toys that she, often made for her grandchild or friend's, children or whatever. but the thing is that I, wish I could sew and knit, but I don't, I learned a little bit as a child.

I haven't stuck at it. There was a part of me that wants to go, I'll just take all of it and I'll learn how to sew and I'll take her sew. She, but I am a busy teacher and realistically. I'm not going to do that at least until I retire. And that's a long way off and I don't have space for it. So we had to let go of it and it, but we had to go to the right home.

And, it so happened that one of my friends had a teenage daughter who, and she told me that her teenage daughter was doing this project. This, extended. Project in the Sikh form on dress making. She was making like a replica 18th century outfit. She loved embroidery and everything, and I just thought that has to be where this stuff goes.

So we packed it up, put it in my friend's boot, took it back, and it's lovely because this friend's daughter is studying maths at university, which was my mom's subject, So I know they would've got on and. Occasionally my friend sends me a picture of something that Erin has made with my mom sewing things.

So I know they've gone to the best home and they've got a new life. And I know that's what my mom would want. So I think sometimes you have to take time finding the right home for things. Then you can let go of other stuff if you've done that.

Ingrid: Yeah, It sounds to me that you really try to. Give a lot of donation, bring stuff to the recycling center, give stuff to the right people, and that's why it took you eight months, right? Because it's not just right, let's pull up a big container outside and chuck everything away.

I think it was really important. It sounds to me for you both that things went to the right places and sometimes the right place is not immediately obvious

Alison: Yeah.

Ingrid: something has to happen and then you go, oh wow. Yeah, this is like the

Alison: Exactly. Yeah. I discovered my friend's son was into coin collecting and my dad had an old coin collection, so that's gone to him, but if you, but you can't do that with everything, but you feel like if you do that with selective things, then you can let go of other things.

Ingrid: yeah, definitely. now I would love for you to read another poem from your book, because one really, and I, have to say, get listeners. I am not a poetry person at all, but Ellison kindly sent me her book so I could look through it. And there was one that just stood out to me, which is called the Hard Miles.

Alison, please, if you won't mind, can you read it to

Alison: Yeah, and before I read it, I'll say, I initially wrote this poem after going for a run that was a really difficult run, and I was thinking of all the ways running can be challenging. But since the poem was published, people have told me they think it's about all kinds of other things. So I think you can interpret this poem however you want, but it's called the Hard Miles.

The first miles, the fast miles, the lost miles, the last miles. The cobbly miles, the hobble miles, the wobbly after the flu. Miles, the dog shit miles, the dog tired, miles, the dog leg miles, the dead leg miles, the hungry miles, the hungover miles. The too soon after T miles, the hiccupping miles, the trapped wind miles, the really needing a wee miles.

The old shoe miles. The new shoe miles. The stone in the shoe for miles. Miles, the itchy miles, the stitchy miles, the sniffly sodden tissue miles, the odd sock miles, the wet sock miles, the sweaty miles, the sweary miles, the steep miles, the deep heat miles, the footsteps just behind miles. The nobody else for miles.

Miles, they're not getting any younger miles. They're not getting any faster miles. The extra miles, the ultra miles, the millions miles away, miles the several miles behind. Miles. The miles to go before you sleep, the miles to go before you sleep. The journey of a thousand miles. The grit of the single stride.

Ingrid: I think it's wonderful.

Alison: Oh, thank you.

Ingrid: I think it's honestly wonderful and it reminds me so much of so many of people who are in our communities and who are struggling with the cluttering and who find it so hard and who see that road in front of them with all the miles to go. They see that, that, journey in front of them and they look back and they see all the heart miles they've already done, and it's just, I just think it's wonderful.

Alison: Oh, that's really kind. Thank you. I do feel like that is my motivation to talk about it. and when I talk about it, everyone has a story. Everyone has a story about a parent's house or they're thinking about their own stuff and what's gonna happen, And I think, but I think what you do that's so powerful is you make it into a community thing and it is.

For me, it's the same when I share poems and, people tell me about their stories.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Alison: When you, connect with people about it, then you're not on your own with

Ingrid: Exactly, exactly. And I think I, I hadn't realized that this poem was about running. When I read it, I really thought it was about your journey going through your father's house,

Alison: yeah.

Ingrid: it just, hit me so much. I thought, wow, people who are feeling so overwhelmed, it must feel like that. And how can you look at it from a different point of view?

Alison: And I think, although in the poetry book, not all the poems are actually about clearing the house, in a way, all the poems are about it because I couldn't think about anything else. So I think, yes, I was on a run and I was thinking about that, but I was carrying the weight of my dad's house and all of that.

So no wonder the poems even about Other things become there. There everything is interlinked and everything becomes about that. So yeah. Yeah.

Ingrid: I think it is, now knowing how hard it is to write a book, I applaud you, Alison, writing a book. you are an English teacher, so writing must be something that you enjoy, but poetry is not easy, but you've made it and it's a wonderful book and will definitely.

it's called The Opposite of Swedish Death Cleaning. We'll definitely put a link in the show notes for anybody who's interested. I've honestly. Loved recording this podcast with you. It's been so interesting and I really hope listeners, that mainly Alison's main message of You can do it. You just have to break this down and see it for what it is and take it one bite at a time.

Right?

Alison: Yeah, absolutely. I realized as well. I think one of the things is that you live in all these different time periods when you're doing it. That you're living in your own past, your parents' past, your grandparents', past, you're living in your future. 'cause you're thinking about. Your mortality. That's exhausting.

So you have to be kind to yourself and you have to take it step by step. And you have to have treats, I think rewards for each little thing that you do.

Ingrid: Yeah. So what were your rewards? Because we know it was only a few little bits of stuff, so how did you, take time in those eight months to occasionally go, guys, I just can't, I, need a day off.

Alison: Yeah. sometimes what would happen was, so my partner would come with me and we would do two days in the house and then we would drive to the Norfolk Coast and have Couple of days by the sea, and that was just so nice and we've really felt like we had earned it, by doing that.

Sometimes it was. So I would, usually I would get the train when I was going to my dad's house, and then I would use his car at that end. And I found the train journey back was like a buffer. And sometimes I'd just get a nice drink and have a drink on the train and that was just like my way of decompressing after doing it, So yeah, they could, it could be a very small treat, but it, yeah, it really helps I

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. So of course the main question is did the house sell after all that hard work?

Alison: It did, and I really felt very happy because, because you ca when you care about a house, you want it to find the right home. And, and the lovely couple who bought it then, have sent, a couple of cards when they've forwarded post on, and they've been so appreciative of the house and I really feel like they've given it this new life.

but I also know that I will never want to go past that house again. I don't wanna see it because it's theirs now. Yeah, we've moved on. Yeah.

Ingrid: It's a full circle

Alison: Yeah. It really is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Ingrid: Alison, thank you so much for being here on the show. Thank you for reaching out. It's been absolute pleasure. and it's been wonderful to talk to you about listeners. Have you had to declutter loved one's belongings, or are you like thinking to yourself after listening, oh, this is going to be me soon.

And has this podcast helped you at least to get a bit of clarity that it's not something that you have to dread, that you have to go, oh, no. maybe you do need help. Maybe you do need to do it in a different way. There's no right or wrong way. This way worked for Alison, but we hope that her journey and her story has inspired you to, look ahead and maybe you have realized now, okay, I might need to do a little bit of, decluttering with my mom or dad, before they reach that stage.

Maybe they already, There's no right or wrong way again, but have those conversations because I think that's really important. Alison, thank you again for being on the show.

Alison: Thank you so much for having me. it's been l ovely to chat, so thank

Ingrid: Been a pleasure, listeners. We'll see you next week.