A photo of a smiling woman wearing glasses, Michelle Gregory from Knitschool in front of a microphone
Episode 245 – Why does craft bring clutter with Knitschool

It’s time to delve into the world of crafting, and more specifically knitting. Ingrid and I often find where there's craft there’s clutter and where there's clutter there's craft. So in today’s podcast I’ve called on an expert to discuss her take on craft clutter.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Lesley: It's time to delve into the world of crafting and more specifically knitting. Ingrid and I often find that where there's craft, there's clutter, and where there's clutter, there's craft. So in today's podcast, I've called on an expert to discuss her take on craft clutter. 

[00:00:17] Voiceover: You are listening to the Declutter Hub podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the lead in experts in decluttering and organising your home. Now, here's your host, Lesley Spellman.

[00:00:47] Lesley: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Lesley. We're delighted you're here to join us as part of your decluttering journey. So whether you are brand new today or have been listening in for ages, we want to say thank you so much for being here. It means so much to Ingrid and I that you turn up every week to listen to and support us while we talk all things decluttering and organising. We'd love to help more people with their quest for a clutter free home, and our podcast is a fantastic way for people to be inspired to take action. We have a favor to ask. If you like what you hear, be sure to hit the follow, subscribe, or like button on your podcast player. Share us with your friends or share your thoughts on the podcast by leaving a review.

Hello. Hello everybody. Today we are talking to the lovely Michelle Gregory from Knitschool and there's a clue there in the name.

Today we're gonna talk about knitting and I'm sure Michelle can give us some insight onto other areas of craft as well. Now you all know, cause we've spoken about it many, many times, that when it comes to craft. And I were a little bit rubbish. Neither of us are crafters or have ever been. Although, to be fair, I did do sewing as a teenager and I did go to night school.

So obviously at some point in my life I did once speak creative creatively. A a, a crafted cre. Oh, crafty, creative crafter. I can't even speak. But a few weeks ago, Michelle, I came into your membership to talk about decluttering to your lovely Knitschool members, but I did have to do quite a lot of research before I came in to kind of understand the terminology.

But today it's over to you. You are in the hot seat and you're gonna tell us everything about what you know about craft and clutter. So welcome Michelle. 

[00:02:27] Michelle: Hi Lesley. Thank you so much for having me. And yes, I was so thrilled that you visited us in, um, my membership. It was amazing. I think we're still talking about it.

Um, and yes, I'm here to talk to you about craft and clutter, which they do definitely go hand in hand for sure. 

[00:02:43] Lesley: Knitting is obviously your thing, so I, I believe, I presume that you've done other types of crafts over the years as well. 

[00:02:51] Michelle: Yes. So I think like a lot of people, you, you have a main love of your life. Well, I have a main love of my life, which is knitting. Um, but it's very hard to go to a craft show, to buy just one thing. So I have tried, I'm a failed quilter, uh, and I have to say quilting must tick up. Space beyond space. Uh, so I, I, I'm glad to see that I've left that behind. I do still, of course, have a box of tools because why would you start a craft and not buy everything to go with it?

Um, I'm also, I also was very tempted by spinning, uh, spinning led to me having three fleeces. In my house of three actual smelly sheep places downstairs in my home. I had to find someone to adopt those. Cause I just, I was never going to do anything with them. So, yeah, it has escalated at the moment. I have managed to bring it back to just knitting, yarn, collecting, knitting, book collecting and project bag collecting. But yeah, so I, I, I, it varies. It comes and goes the craft. 

[00:03:50] Lesley: You diversify a little bit. You know what's just popped into my head actually, Michelle, do you just do manual, well, I don't even know what it's called. Yes. Don't do any machine knitting. 

[00:04:00] Michelle: No. So I'm a, I'm a hand knitter because the machine knitting is, it has made a massive comeback.

Uh, but it comes with uh, a very steep learning curve and a massive machine. 

[00:04:11] Lesley: Yeah, I know. I was just thinking, oh, cause I'm thinking about knitting and I'm like, actually, and the craft stakes probably knitting is. Kind of smaller volumes of supplies and things apart from yarn, which I know we're gonna talk quite lot about later.

But then, then it pops into my head that you might add machines, but obviously you, you don't. But I'm sure some knitters do flip between both styles of knitting, right? 

[00:04:32] Michelle: Yes, and also with knitters. Some knitters become weavers, and then very quickly you have a weaving machine in your home. Now you can start with a lap weaving machine, but you can suddenly have one that's the size of a loom, the size of a room, and then all of a sudden you have a whole of the world because.

Spinning turns wool into yarn so you have more yarn, which isn't ideal. But then weaving is a great way to use up yarns. So if you have a massive collection, you can use it up by weaving, but then weaving takes up its whole, like it's a whole other level of machines. So yeah, you add a machine for machine knitting and then maybe you have a loom and it's actually, they're the big tools.

So knitting is mine. It's just some needles and a little bit of all it can escalate very quickly. Um, yeah.

[00:05:17] Lesley: So, tell us, come clean then. Do you believe that you have clutter related to your knitting? 

[00:05:25] Michelle: I have tried very hard to pull it back, but there's definitely, there are times when every flat surface has yarn on it.

And I also used to run an online yarn shop from my home. And when that was happening, everything was, there was yarn projects, and also because I teach knitting. My life is full of heart knit demo samples. So it's like a teddy bear exploded here half the time, like there's a leg or there's like an arm, or there's a piece of a patch for a quilt.

So that's my biggest problem is that I have quite a bit of yarn tidy. I have my needles now tidy thanks to your talk ethnic school. Um, but I have bits of knitting everywhere, like. Start off and I, and I design knitting patterns as well and we're designing knitting patterns comes, you might need to knit, you know, you might need to knit between four and five, maybe six, 10 different pieces.

We call them swatches and knitting. So you have them, they're everywhere. You could find 'em anywhere. And sometimes I'm like, oh, there it is. I need that for a lesson. And then you're like, where did that go? So they lurk anywhere you could find them. Pieces of knitting in my house. No, I'm, 

[00:06:30] Lesley: I'm intrigued actually.

So you've just talked about the fact that you do demos, so you run Knitschool. Tell us a little bit about that. Cause I'm intrigued how, how you teach, how do you actually teach people to knit? So do you actually put it on screen? Is that what you do? 

[00:06:43] Michelle: Yes. Oh. So, uh, Knitschool is, uh, my online membership for knitters who are awesome, awesome knitters. Uh, it started, oh, what is it now? Nearly three years ago. We're coming up to our third birthday. Um, because prior to this year actually, I ran an online yard shop and I used to shows and I would go out and meet knitters and I'm a bit of a, I'll have a go. I don't really mind if it goes wrong, I'll just rip it back.

But I met people who weren't quite as confident and weren't happy to try new things. And I don't like when people feel like they can't do something. I'm like, no, you can, you can. So I started Knitschool so that we could kind of, you know, help people upgrade their skills. Plus a lot less people learn in school.

So I learned in school. My Mum actually was my first teacher as well as my middle teacher and my Mum. So I learned in school. But that doesn't happen anymore, which is a shame. So it's kind of. Two things came together. We've, lots of people who've started to pick up knitting, but they don't have anywhere to learn.

And I have a lot of people who feel like they need a kind of a boost. So my job is to make sure they can, they know that they can knit what they want. So that's mid school. It's all taught. I teach online, so it's very much, you see my hands in my videos. And then, because knitting is, sometimes I'll teach a project, but it's hard to teach a project over, like knitting is slow.

It's the reason we don't have a, a great British knitting bee because nobody's gonna watch you in a sweater. It's like that's 80 to 120 hours of work. Um, no, wasn't gonna watch that live tv. So it's, um, yeah. So you would never make, you know, you don't normally do, you won't do a whole sweater project as part of a video.

Some people do. I don't. So you have swatches, so you're like, so like, we'll try it before you start a project, try the technique on a piece of the yarn. So is that, you know, if you are a mid-project, and I think this is probably, this is probably life actually, in general, you're tr you shouldn't really learn a skill when you're in the middle of something where the stakes are higher.

So in the same way that. The first time you learn how to break in a car, same way that you don't want to be learning how to do something really fancy in the middle of a piece, like a piece of knit that matters. So that's how I have loads of bits around the place. 

[00:08:43] Lesley: Yeah, definitely. There's a lot that comes with that isn't there?

And and obvious. So obviously yours is different. The end of the day you are teaching and you are doing demo videos, so perhaps not everybody has got these little swatches of things, but do they, do they have those when they're practicing and then they, is that what you're saying? So you kind of practice on a piece and then you go for it?

[00:09:03] Michelle: Yeah, so that's what I try to actually en, so actually maybe I am, I might be the cause of clutter in people's saying it. Um, yeah, so particularly if you do so depending on your level of knitters. So sometimes knitters who are, they like to try out a piece of, maybe a pattern, put it into something else. So if you're a designer or kind of you do your own pieces, they would al, they would also have those kinds of bits and pieces around.

But for most knitters, the clutter would be, I. I think say for example, sock knitters, you'd have, you know, a ball of yarn. So just a, I know I'm, I'm boring on this subject. A hundred grams of yarn will let you have a pair of socks, but like, you might have 10 or 20 grams left over and my house is all of those.

And I'm definitely not alone because I, I'm for some of your listeners sock knitting might be like, why would you? But it is an obsession. So like, there are, I, I don't even want to talk, like I'm about to start as a cardigan in what I've left over from knitting socks. 

[00:10:00] Lesley: Talk about that. Right. Okay. So we're gonna talk a little, we're gonna delve a little bit more kind of generically over clutter, but you've talked about socks and you've talked about yarn that's left over when you've finished the projects.

So what should you do with that? What's the what? What would be the clutter freeway, what you would do with that yarn? 

[00:10:17] Michelle: So I knit during lockdown. I knit like a, a full five foot bedspread. So by holding all my pieces, you, you can knit with the art together. So like, do make it thicker, um, and then very quickly knit bedspreads and blankets.

And then you can donate those. And I think they're probably my favorite use of them. But a lot of designers also design scrappy projects. So you can find loads of scrappy project, um, sweaters, socks, all kinds of things where people use their ends Now. That depends on how much of a perfectionist you are.

Cause obviously craft, sometimes craft people are perfectionists and the look of scraps don't always work. Um, but for some people they do. So I love a Scrapy project as well. So all of mine just go into things like. Cardigans or things that I slap around in. I won't appear in public in most of them, but some of them may be.

[00:11:06] Lesley: I feel like it's going to be a kind of a, a, a love of knitting and declutter face off here somehow. Uh, Michelle? Cause I'm gonna, Hmm. So what, what I, my sort of, sort of back from that would be, I think that's fantastic and, but I think you need to have. A plan for those things. And so what I suspect does happen with a lot of people, not everybody, so you are obviously got your, your things and you're using them and you're making, um, blankets and throws and you know, or, you know, putting scrappy projects together or whatever, and that makes sense.

But there'll be a lot of people who wouldn't ever do that. Would keep it believing that they will at some point or should at some point. So that would be what we would call an aspirational kind of, you know, it's aspirational projects that lead to that clutter. And so it's, it's really understanding not what you want to do, but what you do do typically, and putting a plan in place for that to happen.

And that's very typical, a craft, isn't it? Everything is useful. 

[00:12:07] Michelle: Yes. There's no cause even I've tried to, you always think, oh, that'll darn a sock at some point. And you're like, when was the last time any of us dar, well, I know there are sock darners out there, but I'm not one and I for those you are right.

There has to be a kind of an end. And one of the great things though, is there is a great opportunity for people to send those to. Like we have a, there's a specific charity in London actually calling it for peace. Um, and they will take yarn and then they teach people how to knit with that. And there's a lot of charities that will take, um, like, like your local brownies or your local girl guides and stuff like that.

They're a great place to send them where they will be used and won't become part of somebody else's clutter. 

[00:12:45] Lesley: Yeah, definitely. I think Knit for Peace is a big one, isn't it? And I think, you know, we've got listeners from all over the world and there will undoubtedly be something in states, in the, in America, in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and, and Ireland as well, where the lovely Michelle is from.

I mean, you're based in the UK now, but you're from Ireland originally. So some of our listeners who are a little bit further afield, they're like, oh, where's that lovely accent from? So where are you from, Michelle? 

[00:13:08] Michelle: Uh, west Cork. So very Southern Ireland. 

[00:13:11] Lesley: I could listen to you all day.

Absolutely. Sure our listeners will be enjoying it. So, yeah, so that, that's the first thing really that I would say about, about it. And I think it's, you know, Michelle and some of the people in your, and I'm sure it's the same, some of the people in your Knitschool will absolutely be doing the types of things that you are talking about, and some people will not.

And then what will be happening to these little itty bitty pieces of yarn or ends of, you know, balls of yarn will be. Just cluttering up and stopping you of them from being creative. I just wanted to talk about what it is, obviously as a kind of, you know, not a crafter. Not a knitter. What is it about crafting that is so enjoyable and compelling?

Oh, actually the, you've only got 30 seconds, Michelle. 

[00:13:59] Michelle: Oh, no. I'm like, oh, everything. No, I, I think the thing particularly, I think about all of it actually crafting is it's the buying, it's the collecting, it's the using, it's the output. It's the whole experience of it is, is kind of part of it. Cause I like, I'm just as happy to buy a sock, Karen, as I am to knit with it.

But also, I think it's also something you do for yourself, and particularly with knitting. If you just, the, the. Just knit the physical act of doing something that you would act just knit, like the physical act of knitting is relaxing. You're thinking about it. It's something that is rhythmic and it's enjoyable, although it has its moments where it's not.

The act of doing something that you enjoy that doesn't need to be productive as well, although there's a balance there as well. Um, And also for people who, you know, if you work a really busy job, which is how I got back into knitting, I never felt like you might be on a project for like nine months, 12 months, and it would never finish.

At least knitting. You have a chance of finishing something and it'll be complete and it's done. And I like that part as well. So it, it varies pre knitters, but I, the physical activist is, It's really, it's fabulous. I do, I think, anyway, 

[00:15:08] Lesley: I think, and I think, you know, you're so right and the thing that you said there, Michelle, was that you, it's something that you're doing for yourself.

And so what we find quite regular, cause obviously the people that we work with all the time are, for the most part, overwhelmed with clutter off beer. They've got a problem with clutter in their home. And what we see all the time is people want to do that for themselves, but are stopped by having, it could be.

Any kind of clutter that's cluttering up there, craft space, it might not be a room. If you've got a room, then that's brilliant. But even people who've got rooms, sometimes they're overwhelmed with other stuff that's not related to that craft. It could be that there's too much craft. I think it might not be clutter, but it might be disorganised.

So it's not, it's really stifling that creativity. And so, you know, even though Ingrid and I are not crafters, and we're like, you know, you need to reign it in and keep it in check because it sometimes it becomes a problem. With relationships as well. So it when a, when a, a hobby like that takes over the home, it can have an impact on relationships, it can have an impact on finance, all of those things.

So there's, there are some negative things that come with those things sometimes, but mostly I think what we want to get people back to is doing the things that they enjoy, whether that's crafting us something else and not being a kind of slave to your house. And so, It's really important to find that balance.

And I think the reason why I asked you about what is it about crafting that is so compelling, and you've listed all of the components, including the buying, and I think a lot of you see that YouTube, um, Michelle's like, yeah. Um, It's the buy-in side of it that we really need to get under control. Cause we have to have a plan as to what we're gonna do with that.

If we're, you know, if you've got all the space in the world, go for it. But if you feel that Y your creativity is being stifled, your home is being taken over, your relationships are impacted by what you're doing, perhaps you need to go reign it in and go, right. I need to really look at what I've got in my house, look at the projects that are ongoing and decide what I'm gonna do next, and whether I realistically am ever gonna do this stuff.

[00:17:09] Michelle: Yeah, so definitely having too much clutter is it stifles you, not only because you don't physically have space, but also if you have too much stuff, it's very difficult. So something I really liked that you said when you came to see us was you were talking about, uh, three out one in, so for shopping, particularly for yarn, I thought that was one of the best things because.

As a, like, individual schemes of yarn. You could, it's, it's quite, I'm not say easy cause I got some pushback from members. They were saying, you know, maybe, uh, two, two in, one out. But I was like, no, it's been being very hard. 

[00:17:45] Lesley: Say it be three, one in three hours. I was obviously really going for it. Hoping, yeah, there was some find out one in one out.

[00:17:53] Michelle: There was a lot of ishness going on that night when there was a lot of things coming in and nothing going out. I really like that. So actually if you are trying to cut back, not cut back, just tame because it, you want something that's enjoyable and calming. You don't want it to be stressful and the act of having too much stuff can make it very stressful.

Or, you know, for, oh, and this is something we'll probably touch on later is when it comes to the accessories for it. Not being able to find a, a set of needles, because you know, you, you know they're in the house but you cannot find them because you don't wanna organise them. That's maddening. 

[00:18:25] Lesley: And then the chances are you'll probably, you know, these things will be easy.

You'll have your online sources. Yes. You'll have your shops and you'll go out and buy a pair that you don't need because you've already got, I guess, and literally does last forever. Right. Do they? Yes. 

[00:18:39] Michelle: Yes, exactly. Yeah. And you have people who are hard, like people who are hard on them, but mostly they are something that don't go away.

Like they're, they're not consumable. So yeah, you're right. You're ho. Unlike my house, I literally, I have, I was organising them after your talk and I was like, what am I doing? I have the most random size of some things, and they're just, I'm like, why do I even have those? And it's, that I think is something that it can be a bit, Ooh.

Nobody wants to look at that problem, but it's really good when you do because it stops you spending, you know, money on things you don't really need extras of. I think 

[00:19:15] Lesley: it's, you know, going through these things. If you go through your sort of craft dream, it can be really, you know, at the end of the day we love the stuff and it's lovely to reconnect with your stuff.

A lot like can, with anything with clothes, any of those things. Even kitchen stuff to a, to um, a lesser degree. It's nice to reconnect and remember what you have and fall back in love with it again and maybe think, you know what? I did like that. Yarn. Can't think of an example. I really enjoyed that and I'd like to go back to it.

You know, sometimes you can get as, as much of a buzz by going through and reconnecting with the stuff that you have already as you do from going out and buying you. And I think that's, that's something that's really, um, important to remember. So we're gonna go to a little break, Michelle, and then we're gonna come back in a moment and we're gonna talk more about organisation crafting clutter of all of those things.

So we'll be back in a moment. 



[00:20:12] Lesley: Hi everybody. Welcome back. We're here with a lovely Michelle from Knitschool who's talking to all things knitting and crafting, and she's giving me one idea and I'm pulling back with another one as a declutter. But I do want to come back to something that you said before the break, Michelle, which was that you don't dance socks.

I just think if you don't darn socks, who is gonna do that? 

[00:20:34] Michelle: I know, and I, I feel like it's, it's actually, it's probably like my guilty secret in a way. Oh no. They'll be, Knitschool members listening. I, I suppose it's what, this, it's a bit technical, so it's boring, but you know, sometimes they wear thin, but I'll just wear them and so they just completely wear out.

And then I'd be like, no, just, I have another pair, so I'll just throw these away. 

[00:20:57] Lesley: And do you always wear, do you, do you always wear socks that you have knitted yourself? 

[00:21:01] Michelle: Mostly, oh yeah. Most of my socks are, I think, let me just have a quick look. Yep. Hand knit socks out at the moment. 

[00:21:05] Lesley: Oh, that's so nice, I don't think I've ever worn a pair of hand knitted socks.

[00:21:08] Michelle: What? If you send me your shoe size, I will knit you a pair. 

[00:21:14] Lesley: Oh, that would be so nice. 

I know, I'm, I'm honestly, I'm so bad when it comes to these things. Any, anything like that. So I'm a complete, um, Philistine. But anyway, so, um, but I suppose the point that I was trying to make with that, when you said, I don't darn socks, I think, again, so many people are like, Oh, because we worry about the environment.

Uh, sustainability is a big thing now. People are like, I can't just get rid of that as a whole. I'm gonna keep it. And again, that becomes clutter because it's an unfinished pro Yes. Project. And so you need the skills. You need the desire. And so my point is, You love that and you would jump all over that cause you would know exactly what you need to do and you've painstakingly, um, knitted those socks yourself and not just bought them for 99 p from the shop.

Do you know what I mean? Yes. So you've got more of an impetus to do that, but yet you don't do that. And so I think it's about calling in that realism for me and it's, you know, it's not necessarily about knitting, but if you put something to one side to mend at some point, really think about whether or not you're actually gonna do that or whether you just need to let it go.

[00:22:16] Michelle: Yes. And I, I think that's, you, do you have those commitments that you make to yourself? You're like, right, I'm gonna have a whole bag of socks to darn. And the likelihood of them being darned is low. Even for people who are really good, like I, and I know people who do a lot of repairs. Uh, but yeah, it, yeah, there's, there is sometimes you should just think, I'll never really do it.

It's like the things that you have in your house that need doing and you're like, I'll never put that shelf up. 

[00:22:42] Lesley: Exactly, exactly. So I wanna talk a little bit more about supplies really. Um, there's, I mean, I would say in my simple head, there's two types of clutter that comes. One is the overbuying of supplies or the over keeping of supplies, let's say.

And one is the finished. So with a knittle in particular, and with any other crafting, there's a finished product, right? And it's what you do with that finished product. And so there's two types of clutter. Am I right? Would you Yes. If we break it down to simple terms. Yep. And so what leads us then to an over consumption then of supplies in your opinion?

[00:23:21] Michelle: Oh is in buying them? Yeah. Oh, so part of it is, is that you have, I guess, and I'm no longer part of the problem cause I used to die iron as well. I do sometimes, but I don't do it as a business anymore. And you have all these beautiful yarns been brought up by really talented dires and you do not want to miss them.

So it is a bit of fomo. So there's that going on, but also, Yeah, it's mostly formal. Right. Okay. So that would be the buying of them. Then there is the fact that not every yarn will knit every project. So you might buy loads of knitting patterns by loads of yarn, and none of them match and. That's a big problem.

So then you will be, oh, I only have three of those. So now I need to go out and buy eight of them in a different color to match this project. So you still have the three you bought previously, now you have another eight to match a pattern that you also bought. So there's a lot of matching them up and knitting.

It's not like, I suppose it's the same with any craft, like if you have card stock, you need a lighter weight or you know you need it to have a different finish. So that's definitely a problem where you buy patterns separately to buy a yarn, and that's a huge. I think for, and it's not only that you have excess knitting, you, like I have a, I probably have a library of yarn patterns and books.

I would need five lifetimes to make even half of what's in them. 

[00:24:42] Lesley: Um, am I right in thinking that you can buy, presumably you can buy yarn a single and in bulk, right? And so do most people, and are there big savings to be made by buying in bulk? 

[00:24:56] Michelle: Some of the big retailers do it, but there is, this really is a very well known, fabulous iron shop.

Um, they do at the Knitting and stitching show in London. They literally have, um, and I am very guilty of this, they call it the yarn dive. Um, And they have it at the Knitting and Stitching Show in London. And it is literally, they are 10 packs of yarn. And I have seen people buying dozens of packs of yarn in there.

So there is a big saving, but there's also, in those situations, it can be very difficult to hold yourself back as well. 

[00:25:27] Lesley: Yeah, of course. Because people love a bargain, you know? And I think that, yeah, soon as you see, you can't let it go. And there's that kind of idea. I think that comes a lot with crafting.

Um, let's talk about. The finished product as well. Okay, so we get to a stage where we create all these beautiful things. Do you think that there are people fall into two categories. People who are knitting just because they want the project and people who are knitting for purpose with it, and end goal in mind, i e to give those socks or that sweater to somebody.

[00:26:02] Michelle: Yes. So we call them, it's funny, we have, we have a term for them we call. So some people, people fall into kind of both, but kind of, do you know they're dominated by one, so like product and process knitters. So process knitters are people who just love to knit. They're not that fast about the output. They are sometimes, but not really.

They will just keep knitting because knitting is. Love of knitting. Then you have people who are knitting with a purpose in mind. So it might be to dress themselves or that because they love, they see a pattern, they've gotta have it. It's really nice. So they, they have a very specific product in mind.

Obviously, we all come back and forth between them, but if you are a product knitter, the likelihood is is that you have. Well, I'm gonna say this, you prob this is my vision for them. Cause I am not, I'm a process knitter. I see product knitters as people who have shelves of beautifully finished beautiful items, all really well kept.

And then you've people like me who have just got piles of knitted things because I love to knit. So it's a, there's definitely a, I think there's definitely people who use their outputs and love them. And then people who just love knitting. There's an overlap obviously. 

[00:27:04] Lesley: So how do we, if we're a little bit overwhelmed with the output, yep. What do we do with that? Then? How do we fix that? 

[00:27:11] Michelle: So there's a couple of options. I think if you were someone with a lot of finished products, there are places where you can donate them if they're in good condition, uh, you can also rip them out and reuse them. So I've done that a few times where I've knit a sweater.

I don't love it. Uh, I love making it, but I don't love it. And then I can reuse it for another sweater. So that's something that knitting is really good for actually, and that is part of the sustainability of it. You can knit something. Most of the time the yarn is in great condition after you've finished with it and then you can rip it out and reuse it.

Um, and the other option, then you have donating it. You can also sell it. So there is not, before I say this, and I mean this with the greatest, there is no money to be made in hand finished items like that. There not, it's more of a, you need to do something with the output. Now there isn't some. Areas, but not hugely so you can sell it.

And that, that works for a lot of people. I know some people who have like Hobby Etsy shops, um, where they sell the output because they just can't keep up with how much is in their home. Um, and then you can also become a sample litter for anyone who's really, um, and this probably goes for lots of photographs.

People will pay you to knit samples for them. So they will then take the samples away from you. So you've had the joy of knitting them, but they're not yours. And I love, I do, I do some bit of sample knitting on the side so that my house doesn't become completely overrun. 

[00:28:30] Lesley: So, yeah, I, I, I'm, I'm intrigued as to way you fit this in, so as I know that knitting you can do while you're doing another thing.

Well, yes. Not many things, maybe watching tv, but you can't really knit while you're recording a podcast. Can you? I mean, you probably could, to be fair. You probably could. Yeah, I might. 

[00:28:46] Michelle: I, there's a debate actually, but whether it's rude or not, and I think we've come to the conclusion that as long as you explained, uh, Uh, non knitters, like, like there is a various different species.

Um, that it's, I can st I listen better when I'm knitting. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I iron it all the time. Like, and you'll find most people who do a lot of socks, particularly whom you're talking about them, I'm obsessed. Um, I can, I can stand, like, I can cue and sock knit. Um, you know, I can do, I can drive, someone is driving and I'm knitting.

I'm re, you know, I can do most things while sock knitting, but how many hours a day do you do it? I try to limit myself to evenings. Cause otherwise it just, I, I'd have, I would do myself a mischief, so I probably knit maybe three or four hours of an evening. So I would, after dinner I would knit. 

[00:29:32] Lesley: Oh, that's a lot, isn't it? But you can do that. So you can watch, do that while you are watching TV or whatever. Oh, nice. Do you know what? I feel like I've definitely gotten knitting in my future. Michelle, can you see that I'm gonna get that? I did do, you know I did needle work at night school as a teenager. So I obviously, you know, cause you, we were talking before, weren't we, about the fact that you, you know, you said you took up knitting at school and it's not the same.

I mean, my kids did, do you know, what do they call like, sort of like tech. Tech and they do different things like woodwork, what used to be called woodwork, metalwork, they call it resistant materials, all those kind of things. And there was a needle work, I can't remember what it's called now. Um, it's not called needle work anymore, it's called something else.

But anyway, it was kind of, um, sewing that kind of thing. But they would do one thing, whereas when we were at school and did needle work, we would be churning out four or five outfits in a couple of years. And I did love it, but then I gave it, I didn't do it for O level back in the day. I'm very old. Gave it up at that point and then really enjoyed it.

Went to night school. So when I was in my early twenties, I did like make all my own. Curtains and all that kind of stuff, but it just went off. So I do feel that maybe I had got a little bit of creativity inside of me. 

[00:30:39] Michelle: I think you should come back. You should come back to us. I'm very biased. 

[00:30:44] Lesley: No. Cause Tom Daley of course brought, I know, um, I know that in your worlds there are many fabulous s knitters, but in the kind of general, general world of people that are not really crafting, you know, people were watching Tom Daley, weren't they knitting while he was, you know, to kind of get himself calm, ready for what he was doing.

So, but yeah, it's definitely eso flows, doesn't it? The fashion styles of knitting as well, doesn't it? Whether it's fashionable. 

[00:31:09] Michelle: Yes. And it has made like, uh, it has made a huge kind of comeback and actually crochet, uh, during lockdown just exploded as a hobby. Like people are just, it's because people, I think, particularly lockdown people realise that.

They needed something to do. And actually they have kept it on because they realise that it's so good for them. And it's also, you know, it is time for yourself as well. You know, you don't want to be spending like 12 to 15 hours working in a job that might not, might not love you as much as you could love yourself.

I see. Um, but it's great. But when somebody liked Tom Daley takes it up. We joke as well that some of us have projects older than Tom Daley, but we wanna talk about the unfinished projects that are that old. We do have a few people who have, but it's great because, The more people who are aware of it as a hobby, the better.

It's not, you know, everybody is welcome. You know, it's, it's one of those things that anyone can take up. It's not the most expensive of crafts, you know, and you can buy yarn for two pounds in like LD if you want to, um, and a pair of needles and get going, and you don't even have to be good at it. You just have to enjoy doing it.

Um, and so yeah, you should definitely do come and join us now. 

[00:32:17] Lesley: Maybe not yet, but I, you know, I feel in a few years maybe little might be in my future. So now you, you've openly said then that you have had. You know, you've kind of taken it in check. I know the talk that I did for your members a few weeks ago helps a lot of people and, and there's lots of people probably listening to this podcast that are in your Knitschool as well.

And so do you feel that clutter has ever, I know if you're doing four hours a day, perhaps the answer, this is no. But has clutter ever stifled your own creativity? 

[00:32:46] Michelle: Yeah, so before we got, we kind of, I've spent a lot of time, I think somebody said to me recently, you spent the second half of your life getting rid of all the things you bought in the first half of your life.

And I think as I just as I tipped over 40, I was like, okay, yeah, that's definitely true, but. Our house would've been total chaos at different points, and I would've had to store yarn in the loft rather than having enough space for it downstairs. So then you don't have access to it. And if you don't have access to it, it's very hard, easy to go, okay, I'm just not going to do anything new or I'm not going to bother.

Um, and it's that, it's access to it. Cause if you, if you have it and it's there beside you, it'll be, like I say about the socks, if you have it and it's ready to go all the time. Then you can do it. But if you don't have access to what you have your own craft supplies, then absolutely. And that's because the house is full of other less enjoyable things.

[00:33:33] Lesley: Yeah, definitely. Let's talk about how you store and organise your yarn then, Michelle. 

[00:33:38] Michelle: So the first thing I did was buy less of it. What I use, um, you know, the, the IKEA units? Yeah. Um, so the Kallaxs, I think they're called. Um, I have currently got four of those full of boxes and then I have. We're going to say one, one, which is quite an 84 liter, um, you know, the big friendly box, uh, big happy boxes or whatever they're called that we all have and they're all in.

I try to keep them. Anything I'm storing like that, I try to keep in plastic as well, because you have moths and that's, uh, like we all live in fear and actually it's just started moth season. So I've just started getting out. I have a lot of sticky things and moth balls and all those things to keep them away.

Um, That's how I store most of mine. It, so always in plastic so that you can see it, but it doesn't get damaged. 

[00:34:27] Lesley: So when you say four Ikea units, four times. 

[00:34:30] Michelle: Oh no, four little squares. 

[00:34:31] Lesley: Oh, four squares. I was like managed to four times twenty five section ones. 

[00:34:37] Michelle: That's different. That might be the books. 

[00:34:39] Lesley: That does the job.

And do you put them inside the, so the kallax unit for anybody who's not aware is the kind of cubed, um, modular. Storage, but it's not modular kind of, um, that they have at IKEA, which is so amazingly versatile for all types of storage. We use it all the time in houses. It's just brilliant. You can put LPs in there, yarn in there, you know, you can put overflow kitchen products in there.

Books, everything. And so it is absolutely fantastic. So that's the kallax unit from IKEA and it is really super useful. So when I work with crafters, we absolutely use those all of the time just because the server are tile, um, and you can sort of label them. So, but what you can do with the cubed, um, unit is there's, there's kind of inserts and so there's little boxes that you can put in there.

You know, we're big fans of containerisation here. So do you use the boxes or do you leave them out? Do you leave the yarn out on display? Because I know there's some very fancy. You know, I was looking around on Pinterest and stuff, and people lay them beautifully and they look gorgeous. 

[00:35:39] Michelle: No, so mine are all in.

I put them into the storage units so I can pull them out. And then most of them are bagged. And again, that is down to looking after them. So it feels really lonesome because like they aren't, it's beautiful. But yeah, again, I live in fear of moths, but so, but I know lots of people who use them and stack them.

But I have, I, and if I had my time back again, I have to admit listening to your, to both the, um, Clear boxes for the Kallax is what I would've gone with. Now I keep them by weight, so I broadly know which is in which, and I have like tear off labels that I kind of say, right, this is like a lightweight yarn, or this is heavy weight.

So I store them by weight is how I store mine as well. 

[00:36:12] Lesley: Okay. And do you label at all or do you just know whether you've not got that many to be fair by the sounds of things, Michelle? No, I've been really good. You've done really well. Gold star for you. And so... 

[00:36:22] Michelle: it's been a long time coming though. 

[00:36:24] Lesley: And so do you label, do you label at all?

Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:36:28] Michelle: So I have, I put the weight just a pull, like I have the. Sort of fluffy boxes is what I would call them. Bit, not the, and I just have a label on them that's says Fourplay, that I would peel off. Um, Fourplay lightweight Aaron. So I labeled those and I labeled my needles recently after your talk as well.

So I now have, and our needles are like, they're, it might surprise people, but they are, so for every one size, so say it's like a four mill, which would be kind of a standard size needle like that you would kni most yard, lots of yarns on. You can have, there's like six different cable lengths you could have.

There's loads of different length double pointed needles. There's small, teeny tiny needles and they're literally everywhere. Sometimes I think it's harder to store needles than it is yarn, right? So I have them in a book now, and I have them by type and by size. So I can now flip through them and pick them out.

And then the most important thing is they're easier to put back, which is the big thing I think with needles. 

[00:37:21] Lesley: And I think, you know, I think it's really changed because. Over the past few years if something needs a solution, and storing things is a great solution for a lot of things, someone's found it. I think what we find a lot though is you need to be aware of volumes and so there's some fantastic story solutions out there, but sometimes they don't account for the volumes of things that you've got.

And so sometimes you need to go a little bit simpler because some of the kind of. They're quite prescriptive. Some of the storage solutions, yes, it'll only allow a certain number of needles or you know, whatever that might be. So if you are going out there and getting some of this storage, you know, do be very mindful that of your numbers.

So make sure you do your decluttering first. Work out what you want to keep and then by appropriate storage based on what you've got left. I think that's the the mistake. Cause you have all those beautiful things and then you've got a load of extras and then it doesn't really work as a system cause you've got an overflow as well.

[00:38:17] Michelle: Yes. And that's, that's definitely, you know, if you buy very set, you know, there'll be a one place for one needle size and you're like, I have eight of those, like eight different sets. Um, but actually it's really simple things like plastic pockets for needles, for like the longer kind of curly needles you see people with.

They work perfectly, they're great. But if you have little, oh, I saw somebody brilliant recently. You know those things you use for fly fishing, I didn't even know these were a thing. Plastic pockets with little zips on them. People are using those for small sock needles and they're perfect. But again, it's that kind of overlap between, this is really for something else, but it's perfect for this craft.

And there's like loads of spaces because partly you need loads of flies. Yeah. 

[00:38:58] Lesley: Oh, that's brilliant. No, that's really helpful. So I could sit here and talk about crafting the knitting all day, Michelle, but I think our podcast is coming to an end. So tell us a little bit about where people can find out a little bit more.

If we've got people that avid knitters and are like, yes, I want to take my knitting to the next level. I, Michelle and all her people in our membership are absolutely lovely and gorgeous. I know there's some people here, um, in our Facebook group as well, and I'm sure they will wax. Flavorful about Michelle, but you tell us why we can find out all about you.

[00:39:29] Michelle: Yeah. So the best place to find me is if you kind of want to find out about Knitschool. We're at nit school.co uk, but if you wanna join our kind of our just regular gang, you'll find us as Knit Matters on in our Facebook group. It's called Knit Matters on Facebook. And then I'm on Knitschool on YouTube and I'm Knitschool on, um, Instagram as well.

I'm always around somewhere to talk about knitting. 

[00:39:52] Lesley: Perfect. Yeah, I love of knitting. So thank you so much for being here. I've really, really enjoyed it and I think it's been really nice. Certainly, I'm definitely out of my comfort zone when it comes to knitting, um, but I think it's useful to understand, to, to delve into something that I really don't.

Don't understand myself, but I think the principles of decluttering are the same. You know, be realistic. Make a plan. Know what the out you, you know, know what you're gonna do with your output. So it's the same, but it's a different type of commodity. So it's important if you do feel overwhelmed or you do feel your creativity is being stifled, that you take a step back.

I said to Michelle's, uh, members, that they should do apparently um, three out, three out, one in, which is quite harsh, to be fair. I love it that you listened. I'm so happy with that. 

[00:40:38] Michelle: Oh, honestly, every, you have changed. So many of the way we look at things and it, there was a little bit of banter about it, but people just, oh, sure.

I've loved it. What she talking about? It was amazing. Amazing. 

[00:40:49] Lesley: I know. Exactly. I can't believe it said that must have been feeling a pretty hardcore that night. So thank you so much everybody for listening. Tell us a little bit, are you a crafter? Is your craft club stopping you from being as creative as you would like?

Let us know in the comments in our show notes at declutterhub.com/245 or in our Facebook group. Thank you so much for listening and see you next week.

[00:41:12] Voiceover: Thanks so much for listening to the Declutter Hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode, and we'll see you next week.
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Recent Posts
Episode 355 – Your future self will thank you for it – how extra decluttering effort really pays off

Episode 354 – Feeling in control when going through a divorce with Tamsin Caine

Episode 353 – 10 things to remove from your kitchen counters

Episode 352 – The upsides and downsides of selling

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Sarah Dunhsm says:

8 July 2023 at 11:54 AM

Dear Ingrid and Lesley ,
I’ve been following you for a long time now and never miss an episode ! Recently my phone broke and I realised how much I missed hearing you chat all things clutter . The knitting episode really resonated as this is a real tricky area for me as a member of the knitting community whom is also determined to effectively declutter and maintain the home .As always, Lesley challenged my thinking and made me refocus on managing my knitting supplies and consider how this is impacting upon my relationships and ability to move forward with decluttering .I loved how Ingrid recently talked through her kitchen wins, small tips which really can make a huge difference to a space . You’ve had my vote for best podcast , thanks for the laughs and for being there alongside my long journey of decluttering our family home. This podcast is accessible and practical . Lesley and Ingrid really care about the impact of clutter on a diverse collective of our communities and are not afraid to dig deeper into the challenges some of us face , offering advice which is insightful and honest . I can’t wait for the next episode!

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  10 July 2023 at 10:15 AM
  
  Aww thank you so much Sarah! What a treat to start my Monday morning with your lovely comment on our podcast. Thank you for voting and for listening in every week. We appreciate our loyal listeners so much! Have a great week! Ingrid
  
  Reply
Liz Charpleix says:

13 June 2023 at 11:33 AM

I darn socks! And pantyhose! It keeps my hands busy when I'm watching TV, just like knitting does.

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  13 June 2023 at 1:40 PM
  
  Well done Liz! How cool you do this and enjoy it as well.
  
  Reply
Episode 245 – Why does craft bring clutter with Knitschool

Episode 355 – Your future self will thank you for it – how extra decluttering effort really pays off

Episode 354 – Feeling in control when going through a divorce with Tamsin Caine

Episode 353 – 10 things to remove from your kitchen counters

Episode 352 – The upsides and downsides of selling

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