A graphic saying Ingrid meets Professional organiser friends with photos of the 5 women
Episode 335 – Ingrid meets Professional Organising Friends

It’s Ingrid and Lesley week and as part of our special week long of bonus episodes, we are delving into parts of our lives outside of the Declutter Hub that you might not know about. In this podcast, we are talking to some of our longest standing friends and colleagues from the Professional Organising industry. We gave them an advance copy of our brand new book, Reset Your Home, too to ask them what they thought readers could learn from it. As always, we professional organisers love giving our advice so today you are also going to hear some absolute gems from the best in the business.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Speaker 1  00:00
It's Ingrid and Lesley week, and as part of our special week, long of bonus episodes, we are delving into parts of our lives outside of the declutter hub that you might not know about. Today, we are talking to some of our longest standing friends and colleagues from the professional organizing industry. Of course, we gave them an advanced copy of our brand new book reset your home to ask them what they thought readers could learn from it. As always, we professional organizers love giving our advice, so today, you are also going to hear some absolute gems from the best in the business.

Speaker 2  00:49
You're listening to the declutter podcast bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here's your host, Ingrid Johnson,

Speaker 1  01:11
hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find the fun factor in the serious business of decluttering, and if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast, it all takes place in our free Facebook group, so come and join our lovely, warm and supportive community. Go to declutter help.com forward slash group to find out more. Well, hello, Sarah. Thank you so much for being on our podcast. We really appreciate you coming on to tell us what your thoughts are about our book. Reset your home, and it's just so nice to see you. We go away back a long way, don't we?

Speaker 3  02:03
We do. We do. And thank you for inviting me to be back on the podcast. It's been a while. It's really nice to to see what's been going on with you guys. Thank

02:12
you. So Sarah, how do we know each other?

Speaker 3  02:16
So I think the first time I met you both, what would have been the apto conference in 2014 that was the year I set out my business. And I think you business for quite a few years. So I remember kind of looking at you and thinking, Oh, they're the people. They're the ones with the experience and and then, of course, we both, I ended up joining the board, so worked with you and Lesley, and I think that's when we kind of got to know each other a little bit more, which was such a privilege to be on the board with you guys. Oh, you

Speaker 1  02:50
know what? I can't believe it's been that long. I'm suddenly thinking, wow, that makes I've been a professional organizer for a very, very long time, and so is Lesley, because I know it's I can't believe we've been friends for 10 years. It's been just an absolute pleasure, hasn't it? And we just, I know it's been lovely. So I know happy you're here on the podcast. Indeed, again, you we were on the podcast before, because you're an ADHD expert or a professional organizer really knows all the ins and outs about ADHD. So let's start at the beginning. What did you think about the book?

Speaker 3  03:24
Oh, I loved it. It was a really easy read. And obviously, with ADHD myself, books can sometimes be a challenge, but I just raced my way through the book, which was great. And I think I was really struck by how I shouldn't have been surprised about this, but how pragmatic and practical it was. And it felt like, you know, there's so many kind of approaches around that all like, let you're going to transform your whole life overnight. You know, when you do this, this and this, this is the magic bullet, and that's not what this book is about. This book is much more practical and realistic, because we we know, particularly people with ADHD, they throw themselves into it, and they get really excited and energized by whatever the latest fad is. But then when it doesn't work, you know, overnight, they end up giving up, and then everything's back to normal. And and you and I know that many people call us at that point because they're like, tried this, tried that, nothing worked. And so I really loved the kind of it's like the slow and steady. I think you said at one point during the book, let's keep it slow and steady. We don't need to race through this. It doesn't have to happen overnight. And I think that's really helpful reminder for people with ADHD. So

Speaker 1  04:49
yeah, I think it's really important, isn't it, that we, I know Lesley, and I sometimes think about like, oh, we keep saying this. You have to break it down. You have to do it in small, manageable chunks, because. Because that, that that that fast approach really tires people out. You run out of steam. And it's really more important that you kind of consistently do a little bit because then you consistently see little bit improvements as well in your you get used to having less clutter around you. And slowly but surely, really, really does it. But of course, now we're all so focused on hacks and tips and tricks and things, and, yeah, we're kind of sometimes thinking, oh my gosh, it's so important to keep sending that message out, that slow and steady really wins the race and that. And I'm really glad you do picked up on that. And that is really an important message in our whole book? Actually? Yeah, totally.

Speaker 3  05:43
And I think, I think it's interesting, because it's the I'm imagining that many people with ADHD will tackle some of these bit in a fast and furious way, but then they'll have a little break and hopefully come back to the next bit. So rather than think I can get the whole house done over a weekend, so recognize, okay, I need to break this down. Let me just do this draw, and I'll do it fast and furious, which is our style, but sort of spread it out over time. And I think there's that managing people's expectations that's so important with the decluttering process, isn't it? You and I know that it takes time to accumulate clutter. It takes time lots of habits that we've had over the years that mean that we end up, particularly with ADHD, the happy heapers, you know, collecting loads of stuff, so then just taking time to pay attention to it and come back to it and just work slowly and steadily through different rooms in the home, I think is really useful.

Speaker 1  06:39
Yeah. So if you, like, look at the book as as a whole, do you think it is really helpful for people who've got ADHD? Are you really, like, Yes, I can really see that the people who've got a who struggle with ADHD can really benefit from this book, from this book. Yeah,

Speaker 3  06:56
I would say so. I think one of the things I particularly was struck by was the goal setting bit, because often we're in so much of a hurry to rush into doing the project, whatever, if it's our kitchen, our basement, or whatever it is, that we forget to kind of think a bit more about the why. And I think you're constantly putting pauses in to reflect. So you're saying, right? You know, what are you learning about you know, your processes, what you're doing, how you're managing things at home, you know, as you're decluttering, what are you learning from this stuff? What can you change that's going to make it work better in future and fit you? And I think that it's interesting because I just got a call yesterday from somebody who said, I've worked with organizers before, and they impose their own strategy. And this book is very much about discovering what's going to work for you. And I think that's one thing that really makes it ADHD friendly, is you're not telling people this is what you have to do. You're saying, right? Try this, try that. Look at your processes. You're not telling them what their processes should be, but you're saying, look at your processes so that the clutter doesn't start to build up again. And I love that, yeah.

Speaker 1  08:08
Well, thank you so much, Sarah. I really appreciate that, and thank you for your lovely comments. Of course, we are super proud of the book, and to get that stamp of approval from fellow colleagues, who we appreciate and admire so much as well. It's just absolutely lovely. So thank you so much for being here, and yeah, we'll hope to see you soon again.

08:27
You're welcome. Bye.

Speaker 1  08:31
Well, I'm here next chatting with Jasmine from change your space. Hello, Jasmine.

08:38
Hi. It's so

Speaker 1  08:40
nice to have you back on our show. I can't believe it's been years. You were one of our first guests on this podcast.

Speaker 4  08:48
I know the time flies, really, but yeah, I

Speaker 1  08:53
know that made me think, actually, oh, if that, if it's that long, how long do we know each other? We've been friends for a very, very long time. I mean, how did you know me and Lesley?

Speaker 4  09:02
Well, this is the thing, when you start thinking about when we first set up business, you know, you feel very much like a veteran, don't you? But yeah, so I coming out for 12 years as a professional organizer. You know, early doors have been an apto member. I think you became the president of apdo, and I was really enthused by the direction he was going in and joined the committee. And so we had several sort of virtual meetings, and also in person, I used to come up from Devon to London and see all you all to chat to and to plan, and it was just straight away, yourself and Lesley, you know, very much my sort of people, you know, pragmatic, care about what they were doing and enthusiastic. So I think we've stayed we've stayed in touch and friends ever since. So that's been lovely. I know

Speaker 1  09:57
I was actually chatting to the kids last. Tonight that we actually went on holiday to Devon and we met you.

Speaker 4  10:02
Yes, yeah, it came to us. It was lovely, really lovely. Yeah,

Speaker 1  10:07
I know indeed, exactly. We just say time flies when you're having fun, right? But we've always, although, you know, we are all in different parts of the country. I mean, Lesley's up north in Manchester, I'm in the southeast. You're completely in the southwest. But we've stayed in touch and were, stayed friends. And you know, when we thought about, okay, we would love, you know, for other professional organizers to to read our book and be involved. You were, of course, a name that came up. So we sent you the book and said, right, Jasmine, read through our book and let us know. So, what do you think?

Speaker 4  10:39
Well, I have to say, obviously that's hugely enthusiastic about it the moment opened it. But what was so lovely about reading it is it was like having you both in the room, which, you know, I'm biased. That's a lovely thing, you know, but it's got all of the hallmarks of what makes you great people, you know, great organizers, but just lovely people to know that. It's got your humor, it's got your understanding, it's got a very large dose of your fantastic pragmatism and a knowledge of people. And I think that's that's a unique combination that makes it very appealing. No surprise to me that you've got all the interest from you know, your declutter work as well. People really gravitate to that, that mixture and the book just has all of that in spades. Oh,

Speaker 1  11:29
thank you so much. You're so so kind. I know I love getting your emails. I'm reading it. I'm halfway through, I'm making loads and loads of notes and like, Okay,

Speaker 4  11:40
I was a bit gush. There was lots of exclamation marks in my notes. So I kept writing, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1  11:49
So what is then, your favorite part of the book? I mean, I know you were like, Oh my gosh, I love the whole book. But is there a bit? Are there bits that really stood out for you?

Speaker 4  11:58
Oh yeah, they I mean, your chapter on sentimental items, obviously, with the sort of work that I do here in Devon, with people who are very much attached to their belongings, and we spend a lot of time talking about how they're going to deal with those difficult items that have got memories. There was just such a lot in there that, I mean, firstly, it's like hearing your own voice coming back to you when you do this a lot. There was so much you say, I was like, that's exactly what that's the conversation I had with somebody just yesterday. Fantastic, but some real nuggets in there that I think people are going to find hugely helpful, especially navigating the specifics of items as well. I forget that it's not just about the general view of, you know, who's you say? You asked the question, whose memory is this? And that was something I I mentioned to somebody just the the day before, like, I say, whose memory is it? Is it your memory or somebody else's memory? But that those general principles are really, really important, but you're breaking it when you break it down, as you do in the book, to very specific items we see commonly as sentimental items, giving people options, it's going to be hugely helpful for people to navigate those more tricky items, for sure.

Speaker 1  13:15
Yeah, I think, I don't think it's also one of the biggest chapters in the books, right? Because it's really it sentimental items is the hardest. And I think what we know from our work as professional organizers is that a lot of people always think about when they think about their clutter and their stuff, they think about the hardest items, which is always the paperwork, the photographs, the sentimental items. And that's also the reason why it's much, much later in the book, it's one of the last chapters, because you need to understand yourself and your clutter in your home before you can dive into the sentimental items.

Speaker 4  13:52
Yeah, I mean, in my line of work, sometimes people bring those to the fore first, because they're the one that that's the biggest barrier for them. So that's why I found that chapter hugely interesting. I think people are going to be dipping in and out of the book, you know, at various points, depending what they're tackling. But you know, from from my point of view as well, it isn't a chapter that just goes nothing, you know, couple of things and then move on. It does acknowledge the fact that there will be special things. There'll be, for some people, lots of special things, but they're engaging with it and making active decisions. And that emotions aren't a bad thing, but it's just making sure, like you say at the end of that journey, that somebody's making to make sense of their home and make sure it works for them. That within that freedom and fluidity, which is what you talk about a lot, which I love, that in that sort of more free of thinking, not being stuck by, you know, items that are accumulating because there's such a heavy amount of memory. Attached to them, but going, No, I can engage with this, and I can make decisions so that some things will be special and some things won't be and it's not going to be frightening. Yeah,

Speaker 1  15:11
yeah. Do you think, I mean, especially in your work, you know, you do work a lot with people who've got fuller homes? Do you think this book can be helpful for people, and that is not only for people with a little bit of clutter, absolutely.

Speaker 4  15:24
And I think that's down to the unique way in which you present things, not in a draconian way, but with the sort of, yeah, this might work for you, but this might not work for you, but here's some options that you've got here, and I think that really comes across well for people who are nervous, they're not just going to be told to change and change. You know they need to know that you understand them and understand that those things might be more difficult for them. So yeah, absolutely. And all the sort of techniques of taking one item at a time, one area at a time. Those things are really helpful as anchors for people who are going to find the process overwhelming quite quickly, and so just need to use this as a handbook, if you like, to take their time. Do it at their own pace. So absolutely, for people who are, you know, demonstrating hoarding tendencies or chronic disorganization? I think there's plenty in here that will will give them good anchors for for for progressing in their home.

Speaker 1  16:32
Well, thank you so much, Jasmine. We really, really appreciate you reading the book, letting everybody know your thoughts about it, and I'm delighted to hear that you are so you know that you really like, wow, this fantastic book. So thank you so much for for your sharing your thoughts with us. And yeah, we hope to see you soon.

Speaker 4  16:54
See you soon. Ingrid, thank you. What a

Speaker 1  16:57
pleasure to chat next with Joe. Jacob from vanilla. Hello, Joe.

Speaker 5  17:02
Hi Ingrid, hi. Thank you for having me on. Oh, such

Speaker 1  17:06
a pleasure. Oh, my gosh. I've been talking to the others and realizing that I'm Lesley and I are getting old, because every time we've talked to one of the our organizer friends, it's like, how long have we known each other? We've known each other again, a very, very long time, haven't we?

Speaker 5  17:21
I know it's mad, like I've just realizing my youngest is about to be 21 which means I have been in business over 20 years, which then, like this wasn't my first career as well. So it just feels, yes, we have known each other a very long time through apto Of course, I met you both, and yeah, I'm sure it was bonding over, you know, glasses of wine, possibly any, I don't know where that going from, but over any socials or anything like that. So yes, and of course, being one of the most amazing presidents in historic president so yes, oh, thank

Speaker 1  17:58
you so much. I know you because Lesley and I have been going for a very long time, but you're actually, I think, one of the ones that actually started before us. I don't know what that says about you, about us.

18:10
I know

Speaker 1  18:14
you're indeed, you're right. I mean, thank you so much. Of course, indeed, we met through the Association of Professional declaration organizers, I was lucky enough to be the president, and yeah, we just connected in we Joe, we've always had fun times and hung out together. So thank you so much for coming onto the show. You've been in our membership as well talking about downsizing, because you're an expert in downsizing. And of course, when we were thinking, Okay, we should, you know, we would love to know what other professional organizers think about our book. Of course, your name came up. So come clean. What did you think about the book?

Speaker 5  18:49
Yeah, perhaps, truly, truly loved it. I just what I there's, there's many things I love about it, but I love that. It's just it covers such a broad spectrum, but you could break everything down as well. So I particularly loved the decluttering 101, because I just think that it stops people just launching in and like emptying a whole room and then sitting with their head and their hands going well. Now, what do I do? You know, it just gets you prepared for it. So I just think that is brilliant. And I think that I have, you know, in all my 20 years, there are so many clients that I could like, recommend what I will in the future. And I certainly could have done, recommended this book too, just for how it breaks down each stage. It just gets you prepared. And what I really love is the fact that it tackles that emotional side, because that so, you know, it's just so important, you know, to do that. And I really love the jargon buster as well. I love the fact that, you know, it's going to stop people sort of feeling embarrassed they're reading something and then thinking, Well, what does that actually mean? Because we might say it all the time, but it's not actually. You know, it's just in our vocabulary, whereas for somewhere else, it's over their head. So, you know, I think, I just think the whole book is, is fantastic the way it It starts off, the emotional, the jargon buster, you know, gives you time to think about things and all of the tips. So, hands down, just a fantastic book. And I'm really, really, really proud of you both. Well done.

Speaker 1  20:24
Well, to be honest, we're very proud of ourselves as well, because it's a labor of love. It's taken two years to get here, and yeah, when we had that copy in our hands for the first time, we were like, we can't believe we actually did it. You know what I mean. So thank you so much. Now, if you look at this book with your kind of downsizing hat on, you're a specialist in downsizing. You've helped hundreds of clients move from large houses into smaller houses. And of course, this past year, you've been downsizing yourself. So if you then look at the book, are there any favorite parts? Do you think, Oh yeah, that was really helpful, and I really enjoyed reading that.

Speaker 5  21:05
Yeah, absolutely. So in all the years, I've probably specialized in downsizing for about eight or nine years now, and I think in all the parts of that, it was the indoor and outdoor storage, because when people are downsizing, especially if it's to like a retirement apartment and anything like that. Then they will have the the loft, the garage, the shed, you know, they have all of those areas. And by you specializing, you know, in that, in those areas, with those two chapters, I just think it's, it's so important, because you talk about the emotional attachment and things like that. I love the bit about like the rah rah skirt and what you can find in your, you know, in your loft, because we've all done it. And as you said, I've just downsized, and with two adult children, it's hard, it's hard to get them to come back and take their stuff. Or what am I holding on to be a grandparent for when I don't have the room now, you know where I've moved to. So I just thought that was just the most, the most fantastic chapters, basically because, because it really is, it's delayed decisions. And a lot of when I'm moving people to downsize, there are, they are that generation where they are keeping it because they might need it. And you know, all of the emotions behind that. And you tackle, you break them all down, and then you give the guidance. And I just think it's, it's fantastic. So for me with my clients, I will be able to say to them, there is this fantastic book colleagues, and I would highly recommend it. So yeah, I just thought it was really, really cleverly and well done.

Speaker 1  22:42
I really, really appreciate it, because, of course, we want this to be a book that kind of everybody can pick up, right, whether you've got a little bit of clutter or a lot of clutter, whether you're staying put, whether you're moving house, whether you're upsizing or downsizing. This book really had to kind of more be like a guide to people and to kind of go, these are the things that you need to think about. These are the emotions that you probably come across when you're going to be decluttering and organizing, and these are the things that we want you to take a moment and ponder about and write some stuff down for yourself, because it can feel really overwhelming. And I can imagine people who've lived in their house for a very long time probably look around and go, where is all this stuff come from

Speaker 5  23:31
over time? I know. Well, I do it for a living, as we've said, you know, 20 years, I've helped people, and I could have, well, I think I possibly did cry sitting in my loft just going and I knew what to do. Yeah, I still had to do it, because it was my stuff and my children's and my family, and it was my emotions. So there's, you know, there's no, it's hard. It's just it's hard to do, so for anyone to do it, and if professionals can still find it hard. Then you know people that don't do what we do for a living, of course, you know it is. It's it's acknowledging that, and it's having this book gives the tools to help people that don't have professional organizers coming in and doing it for them or with them.

Speaker 1  24:15
Yeah. Well, thank you, Joe. We really appreciate your lovely feedback on our book. We're so proud ourselves as well. So it's lovely to get that recognition from the professional organizers that we admire so much as well. So thanks for being here on this podcast episode and sharing your thoughts. You

Speaker 5  24:34
are so welcome. Thank you for having me, and I can't wait to have a proper book.

Speaker 1  24:41
I'm delighted to welcome our next guest on this very, very special podcast episode, because we have Sean pelesi here, who is the current president of Abdo, the Association of Professional de clubers and organizers, and as most of our listeners know, Lesley and I have been very. Involved with Abdo as well in the past, Lesley as a head of mentoring and head of website. I'm the past president of Abdo. So of course, when we were putting this episode together, we really, really wanted to see if our current president, Sean, wanted to come along as well to share her thoughts about our book. So Sean, welcome.

Speaker 6  25:20
Thank you for coming. Hi. Thanks for having me. It's nice to be here. Oh,

Speaker 1  25:24
it's very nice to be here. Now. We got we, I don't, we don't let you know, go back with you, as long as with our other organizer friends. But let's be honest, we've known each other for a while, haven't we?

Speaker 6  25:34
I'd say, so, yeah, least, at least, well, certainly four years, possibly five, maybe even a bit longer than that. I don't know it's the years go by so quick,

Speaker 1  25:45
exactly, exactly. So we know each other from Abdo the association, and we must have met at conferences and meetups. And I think the moment I met you, I was like, she needs to become a future president. And you did it right.

Speaker 6  26:00
I think when I first saw you, actually, I don't know whether you wouldn't have noticed me at that point, because I was just a mere, a mere little dot, you know, in terms of professional organizers, but was on a zoom call for apdo, and I think it was the AGM, actually, possibly, I don't know. And at that time it was virtual, because obviously we, you know, well, it's still virtual. Now, if we ever did an idea AGM, but it's it was all online and then, and then we met in person, I think, at the, the first conference that I was organizing post COVID. So we had a chance to meet up then, and we've seen each other at multiple events ever since, which is great, always

Speaker 1  26:35
a pleasure, always a pleasure. So of course, we are delighted to you know we were like, We need to know from you how you feel about this book. So we sent you a copy and let us know what you think about our book. I mean, any organ now, you know organizing books are out there, but how about our book? But you think you know

Speaker 6  26:55
I was, I was like, What am I going to get? What am I going to be reading? Because, like you say, there are so many books out there that are geared on how to do this job, or how to do the declutter and what to do and when to do it, and where to do it, and all of the things that come with it. But you know what it was, it was really good. And I knew, I knew it would be good anyway. Because, you know, being a professional organizer myself, I have my own way of doing things. Obviously, I work with a lot of clients too, and I know that having conversations with yourself and Lesley in the past, how your brains work and the way that you work with clients. So I knew that it would be practical. I knew it would be informative. I knew that people could just pick it up and really take something from it. And that's what's really good about it, is that it has this ability to talk you through and look at the why that you're doing this, the where, the when, the who, the why, you know, or it keeps coming back round to those questions of, how do we do it? Why do we do it? What's the goal, what's the purpose? And this is the way you can look at it. So it's really good. And I like that. I really like that about it. Thank you.

Speaker 1  28:01
Thank you. Um, anything is specific that you that really resonated with you. I mean, it's a, it's, it's not a tiny little book. It's not, it's a proper, you know, it's a really proper book, if I may say so. So are there any chapters or things that you thought, oh, wow, I really enjoyed that.

Speaker 6  28:19
Do you know, actually, right at the start, you know, there's the talk about the personalities, the different kind of personalities. And I was sat there reading that and going, actually, that's really clever, because that we do, we all see ourselves in a particular way, but sometimes you can't name it. And you want to be able to name that thing the way that you are, the way that you think, the way that you do things, and some, you know, just having that option to be able to look through the different categories and going, Oh yeah, I can see myself there. That's me. That's, that's the one, you know, that that was really good. I really enjoyed that element of it. But I also liked the way that, you know, you talk, certainly in chapter three, about sort of process. And you know, the fit the way that you do this, this job, and the way that it's works, both on from a professional organizers point of view, but actually as an individual, just coming into this, having never done organizing before, or not being a professional in it. You know, there's a lot of things that you talk about in the book that resonates with me as a professional, certainly in terms of, actually, yes, that's how I do things, too. Or I know other organizers that work like that. And, you know, there are always lots of different ways that you can do organizing, and it's about finding the bits that resonate with you, and the bits that you can sort of pick out and go actually that will work for me. So I'm going to look at that bit. And I think that's where the book works really well in that, that sense, you know, you can pick out the elements that work for you and take it away, and then come back and revisit it and have a look at it again and just sort of say, do you know that that did work? Maybe I'll try a different way of doing it as well, and I look at this aspect of it, and. And take that too, but you know, it's, it's that whole consideration of, what's the goal, what's the process, the exit strategy, that's really important. You know, people don't think about that, do they? And it's like you need to know that when you've done this declutter and you've done this organization, where's it going to go if you're getting rid of it. What are you going to do with it? How is it going to get out of that house? And who's going to do it? Is it you? Is it somebody else? Have you got somebody you're working with? You know, how does it work? And that's, that's sort of, really, really, I picked up on that quite early on, and I thought, actually, that's a really good way to describe it for people, you know, that don't, don't do this on a daily, daily basis. And maybe, you know, maybe they can't afford to bring a professional in to be able to do this, and they just want it, but they do want to get on with it. They want to make, make a start, right? Yeah, and this is a really good, good starting point, so to really help them with that.

Speaker 1  30:54
Really, really appreciate that. Sean, thank you so much for coming on this podcast episode and sharing your thoughts. I mean, you know, this is it's been a labor of love, this book, it's been a long time coming, and when you have been a professional organizer for such a long time, like me and me and Lesley, and you've been doing this since 2010 2011 when you get to opportunity to share you know, your your thoughts and your kind of all the things that we've seen over the years, it's been just fantastic to have this opportunity and to be able to share that with our wonderful professional organizers. Community is going to be, you know, such a treat for us as well. So thank you for coming on this this podcast episode. We really appreciate it. That's

Speaker 6  31:37
okay. It's good, you know. And can I just say that there was one element in it was in the, I think it was the bit about bathrooms that really made me chuckle. Okay? And it was the bit where you talk about where, you know, when you go away on holiday and they give you all the freebies, and then you go away and you go, oh yeah, I'll take one of those, because I've paid for my room and I've paid for this accommodation, and I'm going to take it back and I'm going to use it. And it made me laugh, because years ago, that was something I used to do. I used to bring them back, and I'd be like, Yeah, I'll save that and then I'll take them with me. But actually what I ended up doing with it was I would give them to my guests. If I had friends stay, I'd be like, here's here's a little sample of something for you to use when you're in the shower. And I just got rid of them that way. But it just made me laugh. When I was reading it, I was like, that's just, I see that so many times in so many people's homes that, you know, they've, they've taken things because they felt that they ought to, because they they paid for that. You know, it was there. But really, what's the you know, is there a real need for it? And should we be doing that? Let's have a think about it first. Exactly,

Speaker 1  32:38
exactly. Well, thanks so much for sharing Sean. We really appreciate it. And yeah, thanks for being on our on our show today. So see you soon. Absolutely

32:47
See you soon. Well,

Speaker 1  32:48
listeners, we hope you are enjoying this podcast episode. And last, but definitely not least is our really, really good friend, Juliet lander Pope, who is a fantastic if declutter coach the right word, Juliet, I'm actually now thinking, is declutter coach the right word? So I

Speaker 7  33:09
mean, I've gone through various permutations. We started out as professional declutterers, and I'm a declutter coach. Now I do mostly productivity coaching, but decluttering is always at the center of it, whether you're decluttering your space, decluttering your time, decluttering your ideas. Yeah, I think that's something that we've always shared a passion for

Speaker 1  33:27
Exactly, exactly. Now we go way, way, way back. I think we you were one of the first people that Lesley and I met. So where did we meet Juliet? I

Speaker 7  33:36
was trying to figure that out. I think we met at one of the very early conferences for apto Yeah, Association of Professional declutters and organizers. And I think it was one of the very first, maybe not the first, maybe the second or third conference in London, and I can remember Lesley talking. Lesley was actually talking about social media, and I didn't know anything about social media and everything I know Twitter, and she was like, oh my god, talking about things that you know seemed so high tech and so advanced. I don't remember my first conversation with you, but I know very quickly we became really close friends, and we one of the things we had in common, apart from this fascination and passion for decluttering, was we were all really committed to helping to grow the industry and making it more professional, more responsible, more reputable. And we all joined the board, I think at roughly the same time president. I was head of training. I was the first head of training for apto and what was Lesley's role? I can't remember her title.

Speaker 1  34:44
Um, she was, I think officially, was like head of mentoring and head of website. But we it kind of all merged a bit. We were such a thing. Wow. The boards we were in were just amazing, weren't they? I know it was such a great time that I look back upon it, I can't believe it's been 10 years. Juliet and I. I'm

Speaker 7  35:00
so proud of the fact that the three of us together really pioneered training for professional organizers. We put on, we wrote and presented and led for years the first, yeah, official professional organizing training in the UK, I know, then we passed it on to another team who we trained. But I'm really proud of that. I think that really made a difference. Yeah,

Speaker 1  35:25
for sure, for sure. And now, I mean, many, many years later, we're still friends, although we know we don't see each other as much as we really, really would want to. But now, of course, we are recording podcasts with with our Abdo friends, and of course, you are in this you, you've been on our show before. It's been a while as well, hasn't it? Juliet, I

Speaker 7  35:46
think, I think every few years I should have, like, a season ticket, because I know I did. I did a session on procrastination fairly early on, and then I did an episode on working with teenagers organizing, just because I work with students and young adults. And I think, I mean, obviously we've spoken and seen each other since then. Yeah, was that was a while ago. So it's good to be back.

Speaker 1  36:07
I know, I know. It's lovely to have you back. So we said, Juliet, write, read our book and tell us what do you think. So, come clean, be honest. What do you think about our book?

Speaker 7  36:18
I think it's fantastic. I think it's fantastic. I love the fact that it blends your I can hear your voices as I was reading it. I could hear that's Ingrid's voice. And you know, the kind of practical get to you can do it, and then the more kind of reflective, emotional, pensive, more analytical stuff. Yeah, that's Lesley's voice. And the two of you weren't so beautifully together. I love the fact that you take the reader by the hand and walk them through this, this really daunting journey and but you do it in such a supportive and friendly and, yeah, just really helpful way. There were lots of things I loved about the book, but just the the concept of talking about emotions and heading head on, we're not going to this isn't a side issue. This isn't something that we just sort of mentioned by and by this is you're tackling it head on and really dressing plus is never about stuff. That's what we said right from the beginning. We've said that so many times we say in our sleep, plus is never about stuff. It's about Yeah, and it's about people, and it's about the relationship between people and stuff and people. Yeah. So I love that about the book,

Speaker 1  37:36
yeah. Thank you so much, and I I really appreciate that coming from you, because you're an author of two books as well. Juliet, so it really, I'm really proud to hear you say that that you really enjoy the book, because that means a lot for us. And you know it's, it's when you work on something for such a long time, and you know this as well, having written two books yourself, it really is like when you finally get that final copy, when it all comes together, yes, so satisfying, isn't it? And, yeah. So thank you. I appreciate that. So what are things, if you kind of go, okay, the book as a whole, but other things that you're like, Oh, I really like that, yeah, there

Speaker 7  38:13
were a few things that really jumped out at me. I love the idea of introducing the declutter muscle the okay, because, you know, most people are not like you Ingrid, unless most people are not born knowing how to organize and how to be clutter, I mean, and you know that it's not something that I have was born to do. It's something that I've learned to do and I practice. And I think that idea that the muscle is there, but you can train it, and you by practicing and strengthening and with support and with encouragement, just like you know when you go to the gym and you start out and you can barely lift anything, and then you keep at it, and you keep challenging yourself to do a little bit more, and then you surprise yourself for what you've actually managed to accomplish. So I love the idea that you say, you know, let's start very gentle. Start in a place that's not going to be too, too difficult, but someone that's going to make an impact, and then you build up the confidence. That's what you're doing. You're building up your skills, you're building up your confidence, and you'll surprise yourself if you keep going. I love that idea.

Speaker 1  39:21
Yeah. Oh, thank you. And I think it's something that we mention all the time as well. So it is so nice, you know that you picked upon that, and that's one of your favorite bits, because building up a decluttering muscle is so important. It's, it's like you said, you know, when you want to go on a health journey, you can't say right, from today onwards, no more sugar, no more treats, no more fat, no only greens only. You have to kind of take it step by step and build yourself up, right?

Speaker 7  39:50
And you know my My background is in in education. I'm a social scientist and academic, and so my passion for education, I love the fact there's a very strong. Long educational theme going through the book, it's not forced, you know, it's not, it's not forced on you. But the idea is that you can start, start, slow, start, gentle, keep going, and you will develop those skills. And I love the idea that decluttering and then organizing is not just about tidying your home, or it's not a project. It's actually a way of empowering yourself and motivating yourself and developing skills that you can then transfer. It's not just about the areas in the book. You can go on and do other things, and once you've learned how to make the decisions, how to categorize, how to how to reflect on what you're doing as well. I love the pauses, the take a moment, sections, and the digging deeper, where you ask questions, being able to not just, you know, rush around the house and put things away, but also stop and think, What am I doing? How am I doing it? What went well? What could I do differently? I think that's so important when you think about the process. So, yeah, well done.

Speaker 1  41:04
Thanks, Juliet. And I know that one chapter in particular resonated with you, right? Well,

Speaker 7  41:09
best, very easily, that book section that I was kind of like I was reading online. I was like, scroll, scroll, scroll books. Yeah, okay, that's me, as you can see from my background, and you probably know, I'm an academic. I work with students and academics. And, yeah, books are my bag. And, yeah, you and Lesley had so many really personal things to say. I love the idea about looking at your books as individuals rather than as a collection. You know, people tend to say, don't touch my books. That's a collection. I've got a whole set of Dickens, or I've got a whole collection of recipe books. But you know, just like people, books are individuals as well, and some have more meaning than others, Every book has a meaning. I'm one of those people that will choose books over shoes and handbags any day, but even saying that if there isn't enough space, if there isn't enough storage, if they're stuck in a box. I loved what you said about books. Books that go into boxes rarely see the light of day again. Because, yeah, stick your box, stick your books under a bed, in a box or up in the attic, you're probably never going to get them out again. So lots of really great little nuggets in there too. Well,

Speaker 1  42:23
we really so appreciate you, you know, chatting to us here on this episode and and telling us what you loved and enjoyed about the book, and it means a lot. We really, you know, we think of you Juliet, so your your comments are really so appreciated. So thank you so much for coming on On this episode, listeners,

Speaker 7  42:43
and I'm really excited to get my hands on a copy as well. Very soon. I know

Speaker 1  42:47
it's not going to be long now, couple of more days, and then it's finally, or finally, finally ready. It's available for pre order at the moment, but yeah, only a couple of days more on the 27th of February, it's available, and you can actually get a proper hard copy in your hand. So thanks, you did

Speaker 7  43:05
I gather that you and Lesley are recording an audio book too.

Speaker 1  43:09
Yes, yes, we have got an audio book available and an ebook as well. And of course, the order date is 27th of February. Here in the UK, end of June, you can find it in the US, Canada and Australia as well, so all coming your way. So thank you Juliet for being a guest. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you listeners, and we hope to see you soon.

Speaker 2  43:40
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode and we'll see you next week.
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Episode 335 – Ingrid meets Professional Organising Friends

Episode 395 – Don’t Fade by February – Keep Your Decluttering Momentum High

Episode 393 – How a Clutter-Free Home Strengthens Relationships – A Valentine’s special

Episode 392 – The clutter advice I’d give my 30-year-old self

Episode 391 – Hosting kids’ parties without clutter

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