Episode 396 – Why Resilience and Decluttering go hand in hand with Lucy Wooldridge

Ingrid: Resilience is often talked about as something we either have or don't, but the reality is far more nuanced. In today's episode, we are exploring what resilience really means, how it turns up in everyday life, and why it matters so much when we're navigating change, challenge or overwhelm. Joining us is Lucy Wooldridge, an accredited master mindset coach, and the go-to coach for resilience and nervous system.

Reset. We can't wait to dive in.

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid.

Lesley: And I am Lesley. Now, if you are here for the very first time today, or you've been listening in for ages, we want to say a huge thank you we have a little favour to ask.

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Hello, Lucy. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here. You were highly recommended.

Lucy: Oh, thank you. Thank you. It's really lovely to be here. I'm really excited about this.

Ingrid: Well, I'm gonna come clean straight away. Lucy. I know nothing about resilience and I actually, when you, were suggested as a podcast guest, I kind of thought, yeah, resilience is a word we all know, which kind of sounds like. Something that makes complete sense. But if you would ask me what, like what does resilience mean?

I kind of were like, oh, actually. So I went into a whole kind of Google rabbit hole, found lots out, lots of things. And I thought, okay, hold on. I made the ingredient. Hold your horses. Just talk to Lucy and find out all the nitty gritty. So maybe we should start at the beginning and go, okay, you are the expert.

What is resilience?

Lucy: It's a good question. It is one of those things that we all hear about, we all know about resilience, don't we? And we, it's, it's everyday language at the moment because the world is so noisy right now.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: But resilience isn't actually something we either have or have not. It's, it's something that we are all capable of.

We all have the capacity for resilience it shows up in different ways. And when I was growing up, it was always about endurance and not quitting and perseverance and pushing through. Right. And you are nodding 'cause that must be what you've always been told

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: and. That's part of the story, but it's not the entire truth

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: it just sounds so exhausting.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: And resilience doesn't have to be like that. It doesn't have to be all about endurance and powering through and, and getting up after you fall.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: only part of the story. True resilience is actually about slowing down. It's about having a pause, taking a break. It's about asking for help. It's about using your resources wisely. It's about gathering your resources and, and a resource might be different every day.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: it's also, you know, you've heard the, you know, fall down seven times, get up eight

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: and it's great. And it's all about bouncing back. But what that misses out, is the most essential part of resilience and it's the learning. Aspect of resilience, what actually tripped you up in the first

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucy: What is it that you're struggling with? What is it that is the real setback here? learning from it so that you are wiser,

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: stronger, you're more capable,

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: moving forward. And that's what true resilience is.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucy: It's, it's about adaption and growth and flexibility, but the learning is, is such a crucial part.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. So it's indeed so much more than just push through it and just knuckle down and keep going and don't give up, and all of those kind of things that we were, we were thought. So how did you come into this field then? Like, why did you think this is such an important topic, I need to become the go-to coach for this?

What happened?

Lucy: I kind of just natural curiosity, I guess from my professional experience when my, I started working with within mindset and within, you know, helping people become who they want to be. When I was working in addiction,

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: in drug and alcohol addiction for many years. I started back in 2000. I moved into mental health in our great NHS. and so I've had a lot of experience working with a huge range of people and services and what have you.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: vulnerable people with huge challenges. And, was my professional experience and, and personal experience. And, then COVID hit

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: and also in between that I had children.

So I, I stepped back from work and when I, when I, was ready to go back to work, I wondered what is it that I really want to focus on?

Ingrid: Mm.

Lucy: back at my career and my professional life and, and I, I realized the, the common thread with every human being that I worked with was this capacity of resilience.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: Because if you have the capacity of resilience and you know what it is and you know how to grow your resilience, you know how to nurture your resilience, you are more capable of making informed decisions and choosing different paths.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: and, and so I looked into that further and, And this is where I am now.

I, I did a lot of research, I did a lot of personal growth with my own resilience. COVID came along and that, that tested it hugely.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: did question it and, and, and I love that, that we have, it is kind of a. A leveler. You know, we all have this capacity. Doesn't matter where you're from, doesn't

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: background.

Doesn't matter what your aims, your goals are. We have to have this level of capacity of resilience

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: unchecked, it can really knock us off course.

Ingrid: Okay, so then let's dive into resilience a little bit more. So what, what are like the common. Signs, or can you give us some examples of how you can be resilient?

Lucy: We can measure our resilience. We can measure it by the resources that we have

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: and how robust they are.

Ingrid: Okay.

Lucy: So if we are not asking for help, if we are refusing the resources around us, if we don't have access to the resources around us, then our resilience is gonna be very shaky. You know, that's one thing that we can check in with ourselves.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: check, who am I asking for help from? Who is here to support me? What resources do I have, whether that's online resources or in person resources,

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: own internal resources. also, how am I engaging in the world? How am I seeing the world? Am I seeing it from a place of hardship and adversity and victim?

And why me? Or, is there a potentially another way of seeing the world? And that's another sign of our resilience.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: in the world around us, how we see the world around

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucy: is just a tweak of mind mindset,

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: little shift in our lens can help us see the world differently.

Ingrid: And what was the third one?

Lucy: So it's how we engage in the world,

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: the world, the resources that we have around us,

Ingrid: yeah.

Lucy: we access the resources around us. So they're the three main things.

Ingrid: Okay.

Lucy: if we are really resistant to change,

Ingrid: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Lucy: Right. There's

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: of us are

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: but change is so important.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: part of life. If we are resistant to change, if we, have so much resistance that it's making us feel, physically unwell

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: emotionally unstable

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: mentally unfit, if it's disrupting our sleep, if it's causing arguments and irritability, then. We have to look at what it is that we need to change in terms of our resilience.

How are we engaging in the world? How are we seeing things? Because it's not just, resilience isn't just about a positive attitude. That's not

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Okay.

Lucy: it's not bury your head in the sand. Being resilient is not avoiding things. It's actually facing them and having the emotional capacity to deal with that.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: That's resilience. It's, it's, it's given our, it's, it's checking in on our tolerance. How do we tolerate the things around us,

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. And so how,

Lucy: go on.

Ingrid: so a lot about how do we see the world ourselves and how can we navigate through it so we can also get the best out of ourselves?

Lucy: Exactly. And, and a lot of that is, comes down to our nervous system.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: the world is a really noisy place and

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: is full of threats, either perceived threats or actual threats.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucy: our nervous system, our, our brain is actually wired to be, be kind of on surveillance.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: are looking for threats all the time.

And, and, you know, it's, it's 2026. The world is, the noise is louder.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: You know, we're not just hearing the noise of a busy world in, in our own small circle. We're hearing it from the other side of the world. We, the whole world is in our palm

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: and it's really unsettling.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: it can be really unsettling. And so in our brain is wired to actually look for these dangers. Which isn't very helpful

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: to a certain degree 'cause it makes us anxious and it

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: stress levels go higher and higher and higher.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: nervous system is on constant high alert. And when our nervous system is on constant high alert, our resilience is very shaky. It's

Ingrid: Okay.

Lucy: so it's getting to know our nervous system.

It's having our nervous system get to know us.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: knowing the strategies, the tools to help calm our nervous system and to know how to filter world

Ingrid: Hmm.

Lucy: us. Not to put bury our head in the sand, just filter the world. All the information, all the data that we we're getting in, filter it so that it's actually helpful.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. So how do we calm our nervous system then? How do we do that?

Lucy: Oh, there's quite a few ways.

Ingrid: Okay.

Lucy: One of the easiest ways, although it's quite difficult, I say it's easy, I mean simple. It's

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: difficult to do right now.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: just turn off social media, have those boundaries on social media so that the information coming in, the external information, you, you are reducing the noise level

Ingrid: Hmm.

Lucy: so every time you are exposed to an hour of bad news. What ha what we have to do is actually, expose ourselves to, we have to double it. We have to expose ourselves to two hours of positive. might be hanging out with friends. It might be dancing, it might just be reading a book. It might be going for a walk.

It could be any of those things.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: if you haven't got the capacity to fill your two hours. You don't wanna be having one hour of negativity because you

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: that out. the other simple in the moment ways you can just calm your nervous system. 'cause that's quite important too. When we're having difficult conversations or if we're a bit nervous, there's a few, that we can do.

We could do one now. We could do one now where you put your hand on your chest, one hand on your chest, one hand on your stomach. You just feet flat on the ground if you can, and you just take a breath in through the, through the nose, out through the mouth, and again,

Ingrid: Are you doing it listeners? I'm doing it.

Lucy: and do for the third time, and you're bringing your attention to the rise and fall. In your hand, on your stomach, huh? That's a very simple way. You can just send that message to the nervous system that it can just stand down. There's lots of ways, little bit like that. And you have to find one that's right for

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: your, your nervous system resets isn't about you feeling. To stretch. It's not about overwhelm, it's not about overload. It's not about saying you can't do this. It's saying actually things are really noisy, things are really busy, but I can cope and I just need to take a moment. And it's about, just having a release.

So it's just about having a release. so many ways to reset your nervous system in the moment.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: I would say is one of the most important things you can do before tackling anything, whether that's decluttering, whether that's having a conversation with somebody that you're not really looking forward to, whether it's, going out in public to a public event that you are a bit nervous about. I would say make your breath your first action.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: just, whether that's your first word in an argument, whether it's the first action in clearing a workspace, whether it's the first action of doing a physical exercise that you're not really looking forward to, whatever it is, your first breath can be your first action, and that's signaling to your nervous system that you are okay, and you've got this, and it can stand down.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's interesting how you spoke about, social media being so noisy because actually one of my questions for you was indeed, has resilience changed over the last. 10, 20, 30 years with the rise of social media. Have you see? I mean, maybe I, I mean, I don't know if you can answer this question, but it, I think we, we know so much more now than we ever knew before,

Lucy: Hmm.

Ingrid: so it's harder, I think to cope then.

Or to be more resilient because we know so much more. I mean, there were lots of things that were probably just as bad 20 or 30 years ago, but we didn't know them, so we didn't, couldn't worry about them, if you know what I mean.

Lucy: I know exactly what you mean and you're right, but it shows you that it's not the actual external stimuli

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: causes us to wobble. It's our interpretation of it. It's our

Ingrid: Right.

Lucy: with it, because those things were happening across the world,

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: know about it.

Ingrid: exactly

Lucy: that actual. Event or the discussion.

Or the conversation, it's how we respond to it.

Ingrid: right.

Lucy: one of the things that we can do, and this again sounds really strange, I'm gonna say it, is we can actually take less offense.

Ingrid: Hmm

Lucy: Now that doesn't mean the world is not offensive at times. The world

Ingrid: mm-hmm.

Lucy: offensive right now.

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah.

Lucy: just have to put on the news.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm.

Lucy: that we can look at it in a way that is really helpful,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: so that we take it on.

And that's a really large part of the work that I do when I'm working with people. So

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: you look after yourself?

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: you look after your family when you've got all of this other stress that doesn't belong to you?

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: You are carrying it on your shoulders and your stomach and your head. How do you do that?

How do you work with that? And the secret is you don't. you are working with it, you are allowing it in

Ingrid: Hmm.

Lucy: and you can see it. You can be aware of it. You can. no, and believe that it's wrong, but that doesn't mean you absorb it as your stress,

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: very

Ingrid: yeah,

Lucy: do right

Ingrid: yeah, yeah,

Lucy: we see it all the time where

Ingrid: yeah,

Lucy: attacked. Attacked, attacked, attacked.

Ingrid: yeah, yeah,

Lucy: So it's really hard to have that armory in place, but you

Ingrid: yeah,

Lucy: and it

Ingrid: yeah.

Lucy: it takes work.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: you can shift that mindset. You can sh refocus the lens so that you are not taking it on. It doesn't condone any behavior that's going on. That is wrong.

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: not what you're doing here.

Ingrid: yeah,

Lucy: just because you're not taking offense doesn't mean something's not offensive,

Ingrid: yeah. Got it, got it, got it. Okay. Okay. That's a lot to take in listeners. Let's go for a quick, let's go for a quick break and, Let's definitely, we need to know more. We need to know more from Lucy, so let's go for a break and we'll be right back.

Hi everyone. Welcome back. I am chatting to Lucy Wooldridge, who is the go-to coach for resilience and a nervous system reset and.

We've tried, I've tried to unravel what resilience is and how your nervous system is affected and what you can, but I would love to know more and we, she's given us some great breathing exercises. I don't know if you were doing it when you were listening, but I was, so if you saw me close my eyes, I was trying to do it, as well.

but indeed, We talked about the nervous system a lot before the break as well, and that with so many things going on in the world doesn't mean you can't, not listen to it and not agree with it, but you don't have to take everything on yourself because then it's your resilience gets. It goes down, right?

Because you, you, you feel affected all the time and, and, and, but normal life resumes as well. There are things that are out of our control. It doesn't mean you can, you have to agree or disagree or anything like that, but normal life resumes as well. So how do you then make sure that you work in your best space?

And that's taking care of yourself, isn't it?

Lucy: Hmm, it really is. And, and think what, what is the most compassionate thing I can do right now for me?

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lucy: if you look after your small world, that ripple effect goes on.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: the, it's a, it's a big ripple effect. That's

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: care about other people outside that world, that, the most important thing you can do is look after yourself so that you can look after other people.

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. Now you talk, when we were kind of, talking about this podcast, you said, Ingrid, I really wanna talk about emotional literacy and why it's a foundation of being resilient. Can you talk to me about it? Can you explain what that means?

Lucy: Yes, absolutely. It's, being able to recognize, to name, to understand, and respond to your feelings and your emotions.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: that might seem pretty obvious because that's what we do every day,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: but if I, I go to France and I know how to order myself a glass of wine.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucy: would be great for that moment.

It's great. I order that glass of wine. I order lunch. I can, I can do this and I can maybe ask where the bathroom is,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: that limited vocabulary is not gonna help me with the more complicated things of, it's not gonna help me with the French experience. Right. It's not going to let me converse with other people.

It's not gonna help other people understand what I want. It's, it, it's not gonna be very immersive.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: And that's a little bit like our emotional literacy. If we can expand our vocabulary and our understanding of where, what it is that we're feeling, actually underneath that, the, the, the surface level emotion, then we are going to be able to enjoy and express more complicated and have more complicated experiences

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: understand them. And it means that we're gonna help other people understand them too.

Ingrid: Okay.

Lucy: You know, and that, and that's what emotional, emotional, literacy is. Basically, it's just having that deeper understanding of what we are experiencing. so for some of the listeners it might be, they might think, oh my gosh, I'm so, I'm so bad.

I keep, I can't throw anything away.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: throw anything away. It's really hard. am I so bad at this? Well, actually. If they have, if they go deeper than that, they might understand. Actually, it's not about the object. It's

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: them finding it hard. It's not, they're not broken.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: wrong with them, but they might feel guilty

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: or they might be attached to an identity that they don't want to let go of. they might be going through some mini grief.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: A micro grief, which decluttering that, that causes these moments of MicroG grief. Right.

Ingrid: Yes, yes.

Lucy: have your emotional literacy, you can understand that more. So decluttering then doesn't, isn't about, being lazy or, or just being, you know, not wanting to let go.

It, it's, it goes so much deeper and under, and there's an understanding there. So. it's not just about motivation,

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: it's about what's behind all of that. Does,

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: you, you know,

Ingrid: we, we wrote, yeah, definitely. We wrote a book about it be, I mean, it's, it's, we actually call it reset your home, unpack your emotions and your clutter step by step. Because Lesley and I both have been professional, organisers for a very long time, and we very re soon realised it's not about the stuff.

Decluttering is not about. Oh yeah. This item I no longer needed. I'm going to put it in a bag. It's about, indeed, it's about the guilt. It's about the person, the aspirational item that we bought because we wanted to eat healthier or whatever it is. It's about the, the job that we may be, may loved in the past, but we no longer do.

Now. It might be because we are retired. Our life has completely changed and we're trying to find our feet. It's about gifts from other people that feel that we feel guilty about letting go. It's, I mean, the list is endless, Lucy, and you have to be. Yeah, definitely. So how can you build, when you look at decluttering and how can you build up that resilience?

How do you do that?

Lucy: So it's to, to understand it's about safety.

Ingrid: Hmm. Yeah.

Lucy: So you are, let, let's say you, you are living in a space that you, you want to change. It's, it's cluttered or what have you. There's,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: about it that you want to change. The reason like that in the first place is because you, you had a story.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lucy: nervous system wanted you to do this. It's a protector. You

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: it, it's, if you get rid of that, does that mean you get rid of that relationship? Do you, you It's telling there's a narrative there and it's an anchor to something that was once good.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: to you'll, I mean, you can tell me all of this, but it's to, To stop making it about this stuff

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: to understand that it's about, like exactly what you said. It's more than this stuff. It's, it's, it's about identity and status and, and memories and love and fear and all of those wonderful human things. It's a, it's, it's not about stuff. It's about being human.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lucy: And if we it down. First of all to understand that, I think that is one of the most empowering things that you can do.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: that, because sometimes we, either we don't wanna let go and we protect that, or we go at it too harshly,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: get rid of it.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: oh, I feel really crunchy thinking about that. so it's about developing the capacity to tolerate the change.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lucy: you do that in small steps

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: you, first of all, you look at how do I, how do I look after my nervous system so that I can do this,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: and how do I just do it where it's like either five, it is time chunks or space chunks or, and you reframe it and you, you, you decide, you get to choose.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: this rather than I should do this. You

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: your language. Oh, I get to use this space, I should da da, da, whatever it is, and, and all of a sudden you are meeting you where you are now,

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: and your space can reflect that and what a joy that is when

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: can reflect where you are now.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lucy: if you need support in that, get support, that's part of resilience.

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lucy: know,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: re reinventing yourself, it's, it's just about, like I said, meeting what, meeting yourself where you.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's interesting, I think, a lot of people think, that we as declutters are all about how many things can you throw away,

Lucy: Mm-hmm.

Ingrid: but actually we reframe it a lot to, hold on a minute. You have to consciously choose the things you want to keep.

Lucy: Oh, lovely.

Ingrid: And so it's not about what am I gonna get rid of, which is very negative, but hold on a minute.

What are the items that I actually love? And pick those first and find those first. Let them occupy the drawers, the shells, the cupboards. Then it's almo. Also much easier to find the items that. Are suddenly so much easier to let go because you're like, oh. Oh, that one is broken or that one I haven't worn.

Or, and, and then yes, there will be a thing in the middle that you're unsure of. But decluttering, like you said, is not about just ruthless decisions. Yes, you need to step out of your comfort zone here and there. Yes, you need to challenge yourself a little bit if you want to move forward, but it doesn't mean going cold Turkey going right.

These are the 12 things I like, and I'm gonna get rid of the other 150. Immediately this afternoon, it's about, okay, do I want the space or the stuff?

Lucy: Hmm.

Ingrid: But then also, which stuff do I choose that makes me happy and makes me, feel good about myself and that I'm proud of myself? And it's, it's incremental steps forward, not these gigantic leagues, but of course, again, social media has an effect because it's always like.

You see a picture of it's messy. Snap your finger picture. It's like totally tidy and beautiful and that with three things in it. And people go, oh, that is what I want. But it's like, but you can't do it that quickly. You have to work through your own emotions to understand what makes me tick, what makes me happy, what floats my boat, what's important for me?

Lucy: exactly.

Ingrid: you can't immediately go well. That's the hardest thing. So it's out because the hardest things are the hardest things to do. You need to first build up your decluttering muscle. We talk about it a lot, so I think resilience is a lot connected with the process of decluttering and it's not a quick fix and it's not something that will change overnight.

Right.

Lucy: Mm, absolutely and some days will be easier.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: days it'll be harder. And, and, and sometimes you just have to ask yourself, what do I need to feel safe right now

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: in, in this action of, of decluttering?

Ingrid: yeah,

Lucy: know, it's, it's not, I can't do it. It's like, what's gonna make me feel safe so I can do it?

Ingrid: yeah.

Lucy: You

Ingrid: I'm writing that down. That's really good.

Lucy: it, it, it's about self-trust

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lucy: and self-compassion.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm. I think a lot of people doubt their gut feeling, maybe because I don't know why, but I think it's a lot about trusting yourself that you're going to make the right decision, right?

Lucy: Yes, absolutely. I think, and a lot of it, you touched on it earlier on, it's a lot of it, a lot of it is people pleasing as well.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: think if I get rid of this stuff,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: think if I let go,

if I what? Whatever it is. And, And that's a nervous system response as well.

You

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah,

Lucy: it's we keeping hold of something because we're worried about what somebody else might think.

Ingrid: definitely, definitely. We see that a lot, but, but so and so gave it to me, so I feel the obligation

Lucy: Mm-hmm.

Ingrid: I have to hang onto it, and you have to really break through those. Patterns of thinking that, I mean, I would know what I gave my friend 10 years ago. I, I can't remember. I mean, I'm not a great gift giver in the first place, but even if I, I wouldn't remember it.

You know what I mean? So, but sometimes

Lucy: Exactly.

Ingrid: get into their own head about it, right.

Lucy: They really can. And let's say, and I do a lot of work on core values and this, this is a really strong, direction for people because they think they're pulling, pulled by let's, let's say, loyalty.

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: say

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: being, directed because of their moral compass of loyalty

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: and they don't wanna shake that.

That's actually a really good value, right?

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: but it also has its shadow side

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: and the shadow side to loyalty is keeping hold of those things and people.

Ingrid: yeah.

Lucy: people

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: do not work for us, do

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: that are not the best things for us, but we hold onto them because we think loyalty is an admirable

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: but it also has its shadow side.

Ingrid: yeah, yeah. Sometimes to the detriment of people themselves, right?

Lucy: exactly. So at your core values

Ingrid: Mm-hmm.

Lucy: fantastic and I do a lot of work on that, but it's understanding them at a deeper level that it's not always the, the, the compassionate side. There's a darker side of them as well.

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. So the people who always zap your energy, instead of that, you feel happy to be around them, but you feel. Totally drained when you've spent time with them. And then you know, if already you are somebody who has limited energy in the first place, being around people that zap your energy, then it makes it really hard to do life.

Right. If you're constantly exhausted.

Lucy: Absolutely. Absolutely. So you have to be really boundaries and boundary starts within,

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah.

Lucy: to be really boundaried.

Ingrid: Yeah, definitely. Oh my goodness. That is a lot to tell. That's a lot. Thank you so much, Lucy. Is there anything else that, because we made a whole list of things we wanted to talk about, I hope. Is there anything else we've missed or that you, you, you still wanna share with our listeners?

Lucy: Oh, Ingrid, we could talk all day, couldn't we? But it, it, it's such a wide and wonderful topic

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: it bleeds into every aspect of life. And if

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: to know more, they can of course contact me.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: my website, And I've got, a, free Facebook group as well. If people wanted to come and have a look at that, they can come and, and see me in my Facebook group called The Resilience Nook. but yeah, if anyone have has any questions or want to share their own stories of resilience, how wonderful would that be?

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: I'd be, I would love to hear them.

Ingrid: Wonderful. So what we'll do is we'll put your website Resilience with lucy.co uk. We'll put that in the show notes. So in case our listeners would like to know more about you, find all your details, everything is there. So definitely, check that out. And I hope that we've. Opened up the conversation a little bit today about resilience and how it connects to the nervous system and how it connects to emotional literacy and how it con, connects to core values as well, and that we've given a bit more food for thought and hopefully, of course, listeners, maybe this conversation has made you think and go, gosh, I am more resilient than I think I am, or, wow, I had no idea that resilience has so many different kind of.

Strange that you go go into. So is there anything that has made you think, and we would love for you to share this in, in the comments as well, let us know, is there one small way that you can support your nervous system this week? Is it maybe doing a bit more? Calm breathing. Is it taking a breath before you're gonna say something?

Is it limiting your time on social media that might help you? Is it. Decluttering something because dec clutter in your life kind of sate your energy and your mindset. And of course you're listening here to a decluttering podcast. So of course I hope that's the thing. But can Lucy's advice and tips help you move forwards to, to build up that resilience and that, it doesn't mean you have to go in all guns blazing, but you can just go, you know, five minutes, one step, one drawer.

A couple of little things, you know, it's just, I think you can build yourself up and this, this is not a quick fix, is it, Lucy? You don't build up resilience overnight. This is long-term thinking and, and, and, and, and change in your mind and in your body and,

Lucy: Hmm.

Ingrid: right.

Lucy: It, it really is. And it, it's, but sustainable.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: you will have your wobbly days where you feel off balance.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: too.

Ingrid: Yeah,

Lucy: than okay. We're human. I do, we all do. But it's, it's, thinking, well, what do I need right now? How can I be more connected with myself right now? What's the

Ingrid: yeah.

Lucy: I need right now in being present

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lucy: being connected?

Ingrid: Yeah. Well that is a perfect way to end this, podcast episode. Thank you, Lucy, for being a guest. Thank you for being here. I've learned a lot and, yeah, thanks so much. And listeners, we hope that this was helpful for you, that you've enjoyed this, this podcast, and of course, we look forward to seeing you again next week.

Bye everyone.