Episode 374 – From Memories to Memoirs – Creating Lasting Legacies with StoryTerrace

Lesley: In today's episode, we're joined once again by Rutger Browning, the founder of Story Terrace, to explore the power of preserving memories through storytelling. We've spoken with Rutger before, and this time we're diving even deeper into why recording life stories matter, not just for us, but for generations to come.

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid.

Lesley: And I am Lesley. Now, if you are here for the very first time today, or you've been listening in for ages, we want to say a huge thank you we have a little favour to ask.

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Lesley: Oh, so welcome rug. So nice to see you. Thank you so much for coming back onto the podcast. We absolutely loved it the last time. You know I'm a big story terrace fan, and we know you've got exciting news for us. But really I just wanted a deeper conversation really about storytelling. It's a big deal to us here at the Declutter Hub, preserving those memories that are there.

And I think one of the things when you're going through a decluttering journey is that fear of losing that sentimentality and those memories that you have a master over the years. So I wanted to sort of dive in, and you are a master at that, at Story Terrace. So tell us a little bit about, a little bit about who you are, what Story Terrace is, and then we'll, we'll dive in a little deeper.

Rutger: Yes. so I'm the founder of Story Terrace. I started the company 10 years ago. by now we have recorded 4,000 stories of, people of all walks of life, mainly in the English speaking world. and, we write books of very different lengths where we could grant 600, writers. Designers and editors, and to make that process really seamless for people.

The reason I started the company is because I regretted not recording my grandparents' stories. I spent a lot of time with them, when I grew up and my mom worked as an academic from home. I was quite noisy, sporty. type in those days. and, I think, she needed to think more than, hearing, bulls against the house, that kind of stuff.

So she sent me to my grandparents. My grandther was a great storyteller, and after he passed away, I regretted not recording those stories. grand mother, she spoke less about growing up and I regretted not asking her as many questions as I should have had. So two very different regrets, which made me think a lot about why we don't record the stories of the people we care about. Why I didn't record my own stories as I traveled, et cetera, which, I wish I had done. that's really why I've been interested in, in sort of the, yeah, the reasons for, and the why and how of capturing people's stories.

Lesley: Yeah. No, it's, it's so interesting 'cause I think we first spoke, so you came on the podcast before and we've just had a look, haven't we? Rutger when it was episode 215. So do go back into and listen to that and you can get a little bit more insight from Rutger, but that's three years ago. So a lot's happened in that three years for me personally, for the Declutter Hub.

A lot of it around books actually. So I remember when we first spoke, we had. I had found Story Terrace and I jumped straight in to, to, to go to write a me or to help with a memoir from my, dad and my father-in-law. 'cause I thought, what a wonderful, very exactly the reason you are saying Rutger, which is I just don't want their story to go, you know, untold in future generations really.

So it was for the family. So I think when we fir when we last spoke, my dad and my father-in-law were just going through the stages. So basically what. what what happens is that they work with a writer. So they just tell their story, the writer writes it for them, and then there's an editing process as you would expect.

There's pictures and you get a book at the end of it and it's absolutely wonderful. So enriching. and both of them loved it. they love the outcome of it. Did they love everything about it? I think it really took them out of their comfort zone 'cause they're both in their eighties and it's something that they had not really.

Kind of worked with before. So there's a nervousness with that. But once they got over that initial kind of, oh worry, and are people gonna judge me and my story's not interesting enough. All of those kind of things, I think they're bed in and really, and yeah, I know. 'cause it is, it is a big leap, isn't it?

It's a big leap.

Rutger: Yes. I think everyone going into it, and some people more than others. They feel like, oh, do I want to talk about these things or not? Am I gonna get along with the person asking the questions? Are they going to understand me? so it's very natural to feel like that and, and because it is ultimately an important document in someone's life and people want to do it really well when they embark on, on the journey to, to write their book and to, to print it on, on paper for generations to come, it is very understandable that it is a little bit nerve wracking. The good thing is because we work with so many writers, we try to match people with someone that they, that understands them well and that they feel really comfortable with. And as soon as that conversation starts, I mean, from what I've heard in my experience, it's as, as little as 15 minutes. Those ideas that can be quite strong and people can be quite nervous in the days leading up to that first conversation.

They go away, and it's becomes, sometimes still. There are positive memories and maybe some negative memories, but overall, people find it a really, really unique and rewarding experience just to talk in depth about their life.

Lesley: I think, you know what, Rutger, I think, I mean everybody that's listening to this podcast will know. I just, I mentioned it to you just before we came on that Ingrid and I wrote a book as well, which. Came out last year, so we've spent the last. Well, probably 18 months really knee deep in writing and editing and things like that.

And there's something very special. It's something, you know, people always talk about, oh, have you got a book in you? And all that kind of stuff. And I think it's such a daunting prospect to write, you know, ours was not a memoir, obviously ours was a decluttering book, but it's still trying to get everything out there that you want to say to the world in a, in a, in a sort of.

Entertaining and, interesting and informative way in our, in our instance. So, so, so I loved it. Whether I do it again, it's a whole nother nother matter, but that's a different thing. But yeah, so we wrote a book as well, and I think it started, 'cause I was, I was quite heavily involved with my dad and my father-in-law just in helping them along because I think obviously at the editing stage, they need to sort of sign it off.

I think, you know, there were things that I was like, we should probably change that. Whereas they probably wouldn't have said anything. Do you know what I mean? And so, so it was quite interesting. So I think that's what got me started and thinking, do you know what, if we can get involved in that, then perhaps we can write our own book, which we did.

So, and the other interesting thing, that I kind of, a couple of weeks ago, one of the things, we have a community of people who love. Sentimentality stories, stuff, and a lot of people attach, you know, great, importance to the stuff. And so we are all about the memories. And so we asked in our Facebook groups, we've got thousands and thousands of people in our Facebook group.

If you were to write a book, what would the topic be? And I just remembered this morning before we came out, I was like, oh, I should, I should pull that out and have a quick look. And there was loads and loads of different things. So Carol said she would like to write a memoir of her years as a nurse.

Melody said that she wanted to write short stories about her family's life. Angela said she wanted to write something about her insights for as a, from her time as a cleaner. Ben wanted to write about letting go of the past through Dec cluttering, and Trisha wanted to write Life, love and Living. She's already got, she's got a title as well, life Love and Living the Men, the Memoir of a Wise Woman.

Rutger: Some people never get to a title, so that's good.

Lesley: exactly. So yeah, she, Trisha's got a title as well, so. That people want to talk about their stuff, don't they? So tell me, Rutger, what kinds of books are people writing and which ones that have ha that have, I mean, you've had 4,000 books and so I'm sure they're all absolutely amazing, but have you just got a couple that have really resonated with you that you'd like to share with us?

Rutger: Yes, of course. I mean more than a couple, but I,

Lesley: Yeah.

Rutger: so can, we can stick to a couple. Because everyone has a passion and, and sort of, sort of an insight from their life, and something that they have to share that when they are speaking to people that they meet or that they know well, that that is a topic that interests people.

So everyone has a book in them in that sense. everyone has a unique life. no two recent books, which, really resonated with me. maybe starting with the first one because I think it's a fantastic title. is a book called, white Coat Blue Gown, which is, a doctor in the emergency room, doctor who, founds herself, being diagnosed, with a life-threatening disease. and basically moving from one side of the hospital to the other side, and blogging about that experience, in a Facebook group. and sadly, you know. Passing away with her sisters, picking up the blog and the writing and turning that into a book. this is a Canadian book, very quickly in Canada, you know, reached the top of the, of the charts for, for memoirs, which was very exciting to see because it's a really beautiful story, which I think was really important to be told.

And there are lots of important stories for just families, but I think this book. resonated so well with a larger audience, that I'm very happy that, that the sisters decided to, to really share that story as widely as possible.

Lesley: Yeah, it's a story that needed to be told, isn't it? And how lovely for them that they were able to bring her words to life in a different way than the blog and then take it out there into, into, the wider worlds. That's lovely. Yeah. And I think a, a lot of our members certainly will, will have experiences of, of things like that as well, and not the same, but that, like you say, everybody's life is unique.

And I remember that with my dad and my father-in-law. They were very kind of like. Who would be interested in my life. And then there are certain elements of it and you're like, if if we'd not got that book, we would never have known that thing because you know, some

Rutger: did you discover anything new?

Lesley: Loads of stuff.

Rutger: favorite question to ask. People are

Lesley: Yeah,

Rutger: and still that happens.

Lesley: exactly. And I think, and it was, it was interesting to, to work out what was important to them.

So there were lots of stories that we had heard. throughout the years, but they didn't make it into their book. Do you know what I mean? So there were other things that were important to them. And so, you know, it was sort of preserving history. I think there was a big, focus definitely on their earlier life rather than their later life, which was quite interesting.

Both of them,

Rutger: mm-hmm.

Lesley: probably kind of went up to 40 50, but both of them also lost their wives in their fifties. So I wonder whether that. You know, that sort of note to 50 then represented a happier time perhaps in their lives. And so, it's something that you think about. So It is, it was, it was quite interesting.

So, so that was obviously, interesting for me and it's just nice to get the, to get more insight than you've had before, really about somebody. So are there any other books that you've had that have resonated with you? Rutger.

Rutger: Yeah. And, and another book, which is also very, recent book, which actually plays in a, in a similar timeframe. called What, what Music Means to Me, by Catherine Sovan. And, Catherine moved when she was, from Ireland to to England. And, you know, she on a journey in her life where she gained different experiences.

She always loved music, but she never studied music. she became, a carer, for elderly. she had different roles. Initially she was learning how to be a carer. Then she became a manager. And then she became responsible for activities and because she loved music so much. she, sings like she's on MTV apparently when she, you know, when she is mopping the floor. so, she, she has this, this genuine passion which just comes

Lesley: Yeah.

Rutger: throughout her life. And she was talking to one of the residents about, having been in a choir for a bit. And, that created the idea basically to start a choir, in this elderly home where lots of people have dementia. And, from there she built a choir, where initially there was a lot of, you know, everyone thought it was a good idea, but no one really wanted to be the first person to sing type thing, but with her enthusiasm and bring people together. It became a very big success. People actually had, you know, with dementia, started to remembering the songs that they started repeating, and it became a place of joy where everyone could participate with different levels of, of sort of, yeah, mental capabilities, and physical capabilities as well, of course.

and it became such a success that they, ended up, singing with. choirs in, in schools and the Royal Albert Hall. and so it's a, it's a really heartwarming story. she's not telling it just to warm her hearts, which I think is already a really good cause for writing a book, but actually because she thinks this is a very replicable model that can be

Lesley: Yep.

Rutger: other, elderly homes.

Lesley: Wow. And what story, you know, to go from just, you know, from, from sort of the, the ground level up and to end up in the, the sort of Royal Albert Hall is just an incredible story and one that needs to be told as well. And like you say, heartwarming, interesting probably. And just demonstrating the sort of passion that she had, so.

I love that. I mean, what, what's not to like about those kind of stories? We all like to be motivated and we like to be uplifted, don't we? With our reading? So what I want to do, Rutger, is I'm gonna go, we're gonna go to a break. I want to come back and, 'cause a lot of people will be like, oh, that's just about writing a book.

But what does that, how does that relate to me? So I'd love to talk about what you do at Story Terrace and how you make this happen for people who have a passion or a desire to actually write their own story. So let's pop to a break and come back in a minute.

So welcome back. Thank you so much Rutger, for sharing those stories. I feel like I want to go out and buy them and read those stories myself. 'cause I just, I, I just love a, a nice transformational, uplifting story. Story Terrace. so you had this idea years ago. You've done 10 years of this. You've released 4,000 books.

You know, I've talked about my dad's, my father-in-law's, also one of my clients. I suggested to him a few years ago that he had a, a big story to tell. Now. He ended up writing, I think he said 150,000. Book, which is, it's probably a little bit more expansive than your normal offering at Story Terrace, but he's been doing that for years.

And so, but he has, got a medical background. So it is kind of part memoir, part information, so he's very, very proud of it. But how do, how do people make this happen? Tell me about Story Terrace. Tell me about what you do and how it all works. So if somebody's like, oh my word, I would love to do that.

How, what can they expect?

Rutger: the, the core of what we do is we, we basically help people to, to tell their story. And we do that with, with two primary instruments. One is, a questionnaire to help people prepare for their interviews. they can do that in their own time. They can either just read it and, and bring back some memories and start thinking about the most important things they want to talk about. Or they can write lots of it. We see both and both works. Both is fine. because both these ways prepares them for the interviews, which is at the core of, of all of the different products that, that we have and different ways we create books for people is interviews with professional writers. and we match people with a professional writer. and they're being interviewed, between four to 10 hours, their life. From that, we create an outline of the book, which is. Normally around eight to 10 chapters. There's a number of bullet points to explain which, which topics, which anecdotes, which turning points are coming back in those, those chapters.

There's obviously room to revise those from there. And we write the first chapter to make sure we get the style rights. and then from there, the whole book and people can add photos. print, we help people to, to self-publish. there are books as well, basically to make sure that, that everything happens from A to Z because the book creation process as, as you know, Lesley, is, is a long process with many different steps, and we do everything in house so that there's no room for not getting to the end of that process.

Lesley: Yeah. And you know, obviously I went through that and I'm trying to think how long it took. I can't remember. Like four to six months would you say? I can't, I can't remember. I can't remember now. 'cause it's like three years ago. What, what would you expect that, that would take in terms of timescale?

Rutger: Yeah, on, on, an average plan, is is seven months,

Lesley: Okay.

Rutger: for our

Lesley: I.

Rutger: and that includes, the photos in the right place, up with the title. sometimes people are, you know, needing to find that last photo that, that they know that they have somewhere. so it's, that, that, that is what we aim for.

We don't like to go over nine months because it's also good to have sort of a confined space. And for some people, sometimes for medical reasons, we, we accelerate, that process significantly. We can do that as well.

Lesley: Yeah, and I think, you know, from my, from my, experience, it never felt rushed. It felt nicely paced as well. So it's all done in a, a nicely paced way. But I know, so I know we spoke about this on the, on the last podcast a little bit, but I know that you've brought something else in. So what you've seen is that some of it.

There's a cost associated with this, right Ruger. We're gonna put all of the details of that in the show notes. And so if you're interested in in this, then I'm sure Ruger will share where you can find information on their website. We'll have it on our show notes as well. but when we were talking to you a couple of weeks ago, you told us that you've got a different.

Product now that you've brought into the mix. And so tell us about that. 'cause it uses the lovely ai so let's, let's, let's dive into that and whether that's something that people are gonna love or love it or love that AI is here to stay, right.

Rutger: definitely. And it's, it's AI in writing is, is huge. and in translation. So everything related to writing and editing. which doesn't mean there isn't room for for people to add significant value, but when we spoke three years ago, AI was not a buzzword yet.

Lesley: Yeah, exactly.

Rutger: something that was working for, you know, creating a new product because when AI started working and transcripts became better, AI was able to really, you know, use, you know, use stories that were coming from, know from different times and create them chron chronologically, find themes, et cetera. we started working with that and experimenting with that. That has led to our Swift product, which is where, our clients are still being interviewed, by professional writers about their life. but we use AI to generate, outline, and clients can edit it themself rather than a professional doing that. at the same with the, the following stages of the process where we create a full draft. still, the books using all their photos. So we still go from, from A to Z. just. A bit less human involvement, which brings the cost down, significantly of the product. it also goes quicker sometimes, so that's why we call it Swift, because they're a bit less steps.

generally, clients spend a little bit more time that product because there's a little bit more to finesse about the text than when a professional writer has delivered that text.

Lesley: I think my, 'cause obviously, most small businesses now are embracing, looking at ai, looking at where it can be used in their business to save time really to, to kind of then spend time on the things that matter and not the things that are, you know. Writing matters. But I think, you know, for us, it's interesting for us that we're using a little bit of AI in the business here and there is that we have so much that we have spoken about that's out there in transcript format that we can ask AI to look at what we have written and then give us structure, give us summaries, give us ideas.

And so whenever we use AI, we always say. We don't want you to just go and find it from anybody anywhere. We want you to use our stuff and then we come back. Then it comes up with a structure. Then we refine it into our voice if it's not. But to be fair, AI does a very good job when it's looking through transcripts to find your voice as well.

Of course there are things that need to be changed, but I think that. That's the, and, and, and with your, what you're talking about is you're talking about those interviews happening, so that is coming from the, the voice of the person. So they are, yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's the same sort of thing. And I think that's the key, isn't it?

'cause you, we can get AI to write things from scratch. You know, we've, we've all heard about people writing dissertations and things like that and just grabbing it from anywhere. It needs to be our stuff. And this is absolutely like we are using it. For our stuff. We don't use it all the time and we do absolutely finesse it.

So I don't want anybody to think that we're using ai. And AI was not used in my book at all, so I kind of wish I've done reading it two years ago. Might have been easier. but yeah. But yeah, so I think that, and I think it's a little bit scary 'cause people feel like potentially with AI they lose control and in some ways.

My take on it is that you get more control 'cause you've got more time to spend finessing it rather than going from scratch. I dunno whether that's your experience.

Rutger: Yes. I mean, so with us it's exactly as you say, we, we don't use any external sources when we write. The outline or the draft of the book, it's only the interviews that are being used. And, and yes, AI can sometimes misinterpret a word, or bring the wrong association with, which is why our process works the way it works, where there's human checks and whether that human, you know, yeah, human drug has, has the opportunity to change the book in any way they, they want, but it means that they can spend more time thinking about the creative parts of the book, coming up with interesting titles. Rather than

Lesley: Yep.

Rutger: focusing just on, and writing and writing and pages and having writer's block,

Lesley: Yeah,

Rutger: something we completely avoid.

Lesley: I think it's definitely a positive from, from, from a, from a, a small business perspective and a writing perspective. For me it's definitely, it's definitely helping rather than hindering. 'cause it means that I can get more content out there really, you know, in, in less time. And so, yeah, I, I we're certainly embracing it a little bit, but as I said, because we've got so much out there.

Already. Do you know what I mean? So it's, our stuff's out there. We've got 370 podcasts worth of stuff to go at, really. So it's quite interesting. So let's cut to the chase here, rugger. Let's talk about costs. And obviously these costs change and so depending on when you li when you're listening to this podcast, this might have changed.

So we've talked about a couple of different products there. I've talked about obviously there would bespoke things. So the client that I spoke about, this written 150,000 words. Obviously that was, that price is kind of TBC, depending on what he, what he chooses. Very bespoke package. But in general. So something like my dad's, my father-in-law's or in, or.

Father-in-law, sorry, or indeed, the SWIFT package. How much can people expect to pay for that?

Rutger: Yeah. So the, the Swift package, is 9 99, in pounds and, 1199 in dollars, for our classic, packages. you know, which is what's your. Father and father-in-law are used as a process. it is a few thousand pounds. We have different lengths of, of, of, of books. We have a few different levels of writers, so there's some options which are most easily found on, website, but just to give you a sense of the difference in, in pricing there.

Lesley: Yeah, and I think, you know, that's it. All of a sudden, you know, because for a lot of people to spend a few thousand pounds is kind of out of budget, but you know. I was chatting to one of your colleagues last week and saying, you know, all of a sudden for a thousand pounds or 9, 9, 9 or $1,200, that's a lovely gift for a family to club together to capture, you know, to say, right, let's put, you know, depending on how many people are in the family, it might even be a hundred pounds or 200 pounds each or something to sort of club together to.

To get someone to do that, to create a gift for the whole family. I mean, how lovely is that? You know, forget about the whole nonsensical gifts that we're given at Christmas. Let's create something that really matters and split it amongst the family so that, that makes things very affordable. You know, and I think it, you know, and it is ultimately, this is about a, a long term.

Legacy for future generations, which is lovely and it is priceless compared to other things, you know, stuff that we have. so I was really interested to know about that SWIFT package 'cause I felt that some of the, it's out of a lot of people's range to go to a few thousand pounds, but that swift package with the way that you do it with AI and things like that absolutely brings it.

much more for, you know, it, it brings it into the realms of possibility for a lot of people. A lot more people then. So, absolutely love that. All the details of that pricing is gonna be in our show notes. And the fantastic news is that Rutger has given us an additional dec equal hub discount, which we love. So instead of 999 pounds, it's gonna go down to buy 200 pounds.

200 pounds. I've got that right. haven't I Rutger, 200 pounds off for in pounds and $250 if you are paying in dollars. So absolutely fantastic news. That makes it even more affordable. Now that is a fantastic Christmas gift for somebody. Might not get your book by Christmas, but you can certainly make that gift by Christmas.

So do check it out 'cause it's, you know, I've got personal experience of it three times now. One with a client and two with my, Dad and my father-in-law, I can wholeheartedly recommend it. So I just wanted to say that. So Rutger, is there anything that you'd like to finish on? Tell us what your, you know, what you found over the years is the most important thing for people pre preserving legacy through storytelling.

Rutger: Ultimately, what's really, really important to people generally to be. Honest. I feel like they often tell much more than they planned because those things that we spoke about in the beginning, why people are a little bit nervous going into the process, they generally throw that overboard 'cause they feel, you know, this is the one opportunity they have to tell a story.

Which is why I love to ask people like yourself, who've gone through the process with a family member, did you learn something new and. The answer's

Lesley: Yep.

Rutger: And it fascinates me because these are people we know really well. so yeah, it's just, it's a very unique thing and it's something that's, know, we, we love it when we hear five years later from someone to hear how much the book means to them.

It's great when we hear it the day it comes out as well, but it makes it even more special. And I think that's, that's just a product, which is why I'm also very excited that we have this new product with ai because the ultimate goal of the company is to make it accessible to. To so many more people to have a book written, than it used to be.

And this has, you know, made a big difference, in that way.

Lesley: Yeah, definitely. And I think to experience that feeling of, you know, yes, it's about creating a legacy for other people, but I think. You know, if my dad and my father-in-law, it's really about them feeling proud of their life and having an opportunity to reflect on it a little bit and look at the positive sides of it.

So it was a really, enriching process for them. So thank you so much to your writers who did that for them who were absolutely fab. So thank you so much for coming back onto the podcast today, Rutger, if anybody's got any questions, where can they find out more? Obviously, you've got your website, you know, that will have all of the details of all of the things that we've spoken about.

So where can people find you?

Rutger: storyterrace.com is really the easiest place to go. we're also on, on LinkedIn, and Facebook. but probably the website has the, has the most information.

Lesley: Fantastic. So listeners, have a think over the weekend.

What would your book be? Have you got a book in you? What stories would you love to preserve? You might even wanna start this weekend by starting to record yourself, starting to record or write down some of those stories for yourself. And don't forget, of course we've got. All of the details of everything that we've spoken about today in the show notes declutterhub.com slash 3 7 4.

So thank you so much for listening and we will see you all next week.