A graphic of a man and a woman in a room that needs organising, the drawers are overflowing and there are files on the floor, there is cleaning equipment and the man holds a clipboard and pen
Episode 130 – Is a one to one session with a Professional Organiser helpful

In today’s episode Lesley and I are talking about whether a one to one session with a professional organiser is helpful. We both have our other businesses The Clutter Fairy (Lesley) and Organise Your House (Ingrid), so we have plenty of experience between us both.
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Episode 372 – The Opposite of Swedish Death Cleaning with Guest Alison Binney
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The declutter hub podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen, and Lesley Spellman.

Ingrid  0:31  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 130 of the declutter hub Podcast. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Lesley. If you have clutter and want to sort it out, this is the show for you. Now in today's episode, Lesley and I are talking about whether a one to one session with a professional organiser is helpful. And this kind of whole discussion Lesley got triggered because this week is spring clearing week, isn't it?

Lesley  0:59  
Yeah. So spring cleaning week of apt. Yeah, so the Association of Professional declutters and organisers in the UK have a kind of annual awareness week during the Cold Spring Cleaning week. So it's spring clearing, and that's been cleaning week. And that's This Week. And so there's been a lot of chat a lot of things going on this week to raise awareness. Hasn't there? Have the professional organising world in the UK specifically?

Ingrid  1:25  
Yes. And of course, you and I have been very involved with in Abdo. We were in their board. I was president you were? Well. My my right hand orangey Leslie, we became good friends. While we were both in the board who are head of mentoring. We were both involved in training. We've trained hundreds of professional organisers here in the UK, haven't we? I mean, Abdullah is close to our heart.

Lesley  1:53  
Absolutely, absolutely. And so we thought it was a good time to chat about what even is a professional organiser? What could you expect? If you wanted to get one to help you in your own home? If that's a possibility? How is that different to go in a loan? For example? How is that different to being part of the declutter hub? The free resources that we have the paid membership that we have? How is that different? And would it be of benefit to you? Because what we do know is that people are very nervous, aren't they? Because of all the emotions involved in clutter. And, you know, we've talked about those emotions. Many, many times people are embarrassed, people feel guilty. People feel ashamed. And of course, if you enlist a professional organiser to help in your home, you still feel those emotions, even though that person is a professional. And so sometimes it's hard for people to make that mental leap into getting a professional organiser into their home, isn't it Ingrid? Yeah,

Ingrid  2:48  
definitely. And I think, you know, we are wearing many hats, don't we? Lesley? Because yes, we are very much involved in the professional organising industry, but we are both professional organisers ourselves, as well. And on top of that, we have a team of people that work with us, and we run the declutter hub. So lots of things that are happening. I mean, we just love professional organising. I mean, that's the bottom line of it don't realise they, we just love our industry. We love what we do. We get great satisfaction in helping other people. But in the end, it's all about the emotions involved with decluttering. And how you how you deal with that, both as a professional organiser and as a client. Yeah, exactly. So

Lesley  3:37  
just to to explain a little bit in case people have not picked this up over the years. So Ingrid runs a business called organise your house in southeast London. So she covers most of southeast London with her team of people. And I run the clutter fairy up in Manchester, and I cover most of the Northwest and into Wales. And so we cover quite big geographical areas. Obviously, England is much smaller, because it's in London, and we travel a little bit further. And we've both been doing this for about 1011 years. And so we started in the professional organising world when it was very little known, wasn't it? Nobody really knew about it. So Abdo as an association has been around for 1516 years now, something like that. And so the professional organising world in the UK has been around that long. It's been around even longer in the United States in particular, I think 20 plus years, maybe even a little bit longer than that. But it's still a very, very niche industry and one that not a lot of people know about. So the amount of times we hear is actually a thing like can you actually get someone to come into your house and help you to declutter? How does that work? Like how are you you're going to know what stuff to throw away and all these questions come up directly and we have to as professional organisers, we need to sort of break through those barriers and explain the process that we use when we work with people. One to one in that home. And because you know as through the declutter hub, we wanted to sort of explain a little bit about how we think it's different didn't wait as well, because obviously, we do have our two hats on. So what would what do we prefer doing? What do we think would be better for you? What do we think would work best for you? What have we learned about the two different types of roles that we fulfil? In the decluttering? World? We thought it might be interesting to talk about it, didn't we?

Ingrid  5:25  
Yes, actually, you know, now you're kind of saying all of his Lesley, I'm like, oh, we need to get cracking. But we actually have quite a lot to tell about this, don't we? And I think because we have both our kind of decluttering our own businesses are so aligned to we kind of forget that they're actually quite different things. And we love both equally as much, don't we? I mean, it's not. I still love working with clients. I love helping me I have in my team, they're ready to help clients in their homes. But of course, you know, the declutter hub is now a big part of my working week, as well. And I thoroughly enjoyed and I hope that comes across in the podcasts that we do and into our memberships. So but they are different things, but of course they overlap.

Lesley  6:11  
Yeah, they do. It's interesting, because we, we obviously have our own Facebook group, with lots of people chatting about different things to do with decluttering. There are other decluttering groups out there as well. And quite often, we will see posts where somebody gets very excited because they have enlisted the help of a professional organiser to work with them, one to one in their home. And people are very interested because a as like I mentioned before, is that even a thing? How is that going to work? There's a nervousness. So Ingrid, let's let's talk about how it actually works on what somebody can expect to pay a good question, because people will want to know whether it's something that's affordable, because it's certainly something that's not affordable for everybody. And what that might look like in terms of what can you expect that professional organiser to do for you?

Ingrid  7:00  
You know what I think what's what's interesting, Lesley, I think what a lot of people think, is that the first thing we do is pull up in that drive with a skip. And that without even asking, we start to chuck stuff away. Because that's a little bit what you see on television, don't we? And of course, you know, that makes great television. But we know from real life that there's a lot more to it. And to be honest with you, Lesley, in the 10 or 11 years, I've done this, I don't think I've ever ordered escape. So just to calm everybody down, we just first come in and say hello and have a cup of tea, right? We'd like Okay, right? What how is this going to look? Where are we going to start and of course, we've already had a phone conversation or a zoom conversation with the client, before we make that first welcome and go through the front door of somebody's house. So they've talked to us before they've seen us before. And then we go in, and then we start, wherever in the house, we've agreed we were gonna get started. And I always myself, have a good idea of I asked where the client wants to get started. But I also look at the house as a whole. And I advise where I think we could get should, could or should get started. A lot of times these align. But sometimes I have to steer the client to another room and say we need to do this room first or this area first, before we can go to the room that you really want doing because you have to create space in a house.

Lesley  8:33  
Yeah, and so in the same way that when we're working in the declutter, hub, there's different things isn't there, and it will come as no surprise that emotions and discussing the emotions that you're feeling and the habits that are holding you back from making decisions, forms a huge part of what we're doing. So in the same way that we do here, we focus heavily on the emotions and not necessarily on the stuff. Now, when we are working with you one to one, we probably have a bigger throughput of stuff, if that makes sense. Because we can encourage you on a one to one basis to make those decisions. And we can discuss every single decision that you make with you. And we can discuss every single decision as it's happening. So that's probably the difference, isn't it? In the declutter hub and the podcast in the free content that we put out there. In the Facebook group, the kinds of things that we talk about, are to encourage you to come to that decision on your own of your own steam, if that makes sense. We take you down a certain paths and make you think about it. But when we're working with you one to one, you are almost we are almost empowering you to make a decision there. And then if that makes sense. If you're not ready to make that decision, we're not going to force you. And of course as we do here, if we're working one to one with somebody and they're not ready, we'll just leave that and come back to it in phase two in the next round, whatever. Don't make a decision prematurely. So a professional organisers role is to help you to get to that decision to empower you to make that decision and to guide you, it is not to take over the process. And that's really, really important. Because sometimes what we see when we're we see posts about it, or quite often when we see these posts that have mentioned on Facebook groups and people, I had a professional organiser into my house, or I'm very excited. And of course, there are going to be people who have had good experiences of that, and people who've had bad experiences of that. And sometimes it's about you can see from the post that somebody has come in and tried to prescribe their own methodology of the way, they want to do something onto somebody who's not ready for that. And so there is definitely not a one size fits all, when it comes to working with a client, every client is different. Every emotion is different, the makeup of the house is different. And so a professional organiser should not come to your house, and dictate how something is done. Now, as Ingrid has said, we might try and guide you because we know that there are more efficient ways of doing things. But that's why you have brought in a professional, you brought in a professional for advice to guide you in the right direction. But we're not there to take over that process for you. And that's really, really important for you to know about the system itself. And to think about when you're thinking about the right professional organiser for you.

Ingrid  11:22  
Yeah, and I think on top of that, Lesley, I think for me, it's really important that I work with my clients. So if somebody rings me, it's just Ingrid, I'm gonna go away for the for the day. Can you just short out my cupboard? I'm like, well, that's not for me. What I love most is working with the client and together figure out how can we make this wardrobe work? What do they wear? What do they love? What do they look? What do they feel good in? What makes sense to keep and not be there by myself? Just making sure it all goes on pretty hangers and gets colour coordinated? I think for me that's that's not why I became a professional organiser. Yes, I love hanging clothes on a nice hanger. Yes, I love folding a t shirt really nicely put it nicely away in a cupboard. But for me, it's all about can the client maintain this system that we're together? Creating? Does it make sense to them? Does the order in how we put stuff back in the cupboards? Does it work for them? Will they find an item where we together decide we're going to put it? Because a lot of times I get asked, Well Ingrid, can you just copy your house into my house? And then I'm going to be organised because you're a very organised person. And I'm like, yes or no, because we need to figure out where you are going to look for something to make sure that the decluttering and organising sticks. And of course, when you work with us, or you know with you as the collector or me as organise your house, of course, we get a lot done because we're used to helping and supporting and talking about it and doing the work while we chat and making good decisions. So we get a lot done in four to five hours, while by yourself, it's probably going to take you longer than that, because you got a lot more thinking to do by yourself. While of course when we're there, we can chat to you about items. And we can kind of help and go and make lots of suggestions and say, how about if we put this here? How do you feel about if we do it this way? Have you ever thought about swapping these two areas around and all of those things?

Lesley  13:32  
Yeah, okay. Right. So, so we talked about the fact that it's going to be very emotionally light, it has to be client led, that's the important thing. So a big red flag for me would be if an a professional organiser comes into your home and says, Oh, you can go out it's fine. We're going to just do all this for you. Because one of the big things that we do is we educate as we're working with you. So as it says, we're asking about, have you thought about doing this a different way? Can we put this cupboard in different place, you know, all of those things. And that has to be done together. Because we have to understand your lifestyle, your family, the way things fit together. And we can't do that if you've gone out for the day. And so if a professional organiser rings you and says, Oh, no problem, you know, we will come we'll do it all for you. That's a big red flag. You have to be involved in the process. Even if even if you said you know what, I don't want to get rid of anything. I just want everything organised. Very nice to have things neatly organised. But we have to understand what your life looks like and whether or not you can maintain that system. It's so important. So there's so many different components to being a professional organiser. But what would you saying what then is the real skill? So what what is it a client's actually paying for when they get you in their house? What's the big skill that you can offer?

Ingrid  14:49  
Well, I think it's a combination, Lesley, I think it's about understanding people and listening to people and hearing what they're saying. I can look at client's posture and their face and the way the face lights up when they're really happy about something, I can read through the lines about what's important. I can manage the system when we're working together and make those changes along the way. And go Have you thought about this, if you thought about that, and I think that's what you get, when you do over 1000, decluttering jobs over 10 years time, you've seen lots of different ways houses are set up, and we I think, have the skill to go down to the heart of the matter. What's really going on here? And can we then talk about, you know, when we change the clients mindset when we're working with them? We talk about how the stuff come in, how does stuff leave? How does your day work? How does your week work? What's important to you? Is it the space? Is it the stuff? How do you show up? I mean, all of those things to gather, it's like a puzzle that has pieces that need to fit together.

Lesley  16:06  
Exactly. So do you think then that there is a typical type of client that come to you for a one to one session?

Ingrid  16:15  
Oh, that's a quite a difficult question. I don't think so. I've worked with many different people. I mean, I've mainly work with women, but I have, I have also worked with some men, and they're very different than their approach. They're much more I think, like, yeah, can go go go go and go to the quick in their decision making? Well, a lot of women like to talk things through a little bit. And this way, get clarity in their own minds what's important, but I've worked with people in one bedroom houses, and that had to really struggle for space and be really creative with the space they had to, to larger properties. I've worked with people who are by themselves and only have their their own stuff to deal with. I've worked with families with two or three children. So it really depends, but I think what's important for me is that I work with clients who want to make that change, and, and are ready to do that.

Lesley  17:16  
Yeah, I completely agree with this, this spectrum of people that we work with is the same as the spectrum of people that we get in our Facebook group, listen to our podcasts, join our membership, it's exactly the same people have got different levels of tolerance of clutter, different levels of overwhelm different stories that bring them to the place that they are, let's call them stories, you know, things that have gone on in the past, and in different motivations for for wanting to change. And so the spectrum is exactly the same. And the outcome can be very similar as well. For some people that are we work with, people sort of tend to fall into different categories, don't they? And quite often there are people who generally are fairly organised, but something has taken over now, you know what, I just need to get my garage done. Everything else is fine in the house, no problem. There's just one area that's a real stumbling block, it might be paperwork, it might be a garage, it might be a loft, it might be a home office, that kind of thing. And so it's a kind of short, sharp, please come in, sought me out helped me do it. Because it's just never come into the top of my to do list because I've always got lots of other things that I need to do. So it's more about diarize in it and scheduling it, the decision makers quite straightforward. We're just there to move the project along and to make it happen, would you do you think that's fair, Ingrid? Yeah. So people are in that camp as well. And it can be that's the perfect time to get a professional organiser. And if you want a quick fix to something that you are not really struggling with emotionally, that's a long term fix. Generally you okay, but you've got this one thing, that's a real problem to you, and you need to fix it quickly. So one to one is absolutely fantastic. In that way. If you're if you have a disability, if you really struggle, you've got fibromyalgia and II anything that's going to make you struggle from an energy perspective, a one to one organise, it is a fantastic solution, because it gets things fixed. And you struggle to devote the time and energy that is required with decluttering. So again, a one to one session is really useful in that situation. We have a lot of people with conditions, medical conditions that really make them struggle, and we've worked with them for years and years and years. And so that tends to be something that we do on an ongoing basis. And so a lot of people when they first come into professional organising think that well you're not really doing your job well if you don't, you know you do a few sessions and then it should be done because you should have taught the client what they need to know. And then it's all good and they should never slip back. But life's not like that. Is it England there are so many different things that people have to deal with that get in the way of us doing what we want to do and a professional organiser can fix that. I think it's fair to say we become friends with our clients, for the most part, don't we, we definitely feel a closeness to the client because we are delving into the innermost workings of people's minds and people's families and people's homes. And that's a very personal thing, which I absolutely love. And obviously, at the right at the other end of the spectrum, we've got people who have had serious trauma in their in their lives, and it's gonna take quite some time to get through that. And that may manifest itself in hoarding disorder. And then of course, we also work with people who are completely overwhelmed with clutter and just don't know where to start. Because physically, it's very, very difficult. Logistically, it's very difficult. And we work with that kind of clients as well. And lots of different shades of grey in between, isn't there Ingrid? as well. So I think the spectrum is huge. What we offer to people is huge, but mostly we're there to guide to offer support, to offer motivation, and to educate people how to do it on your own after we have left, if that's possible.

Ingrid  20:56  
Yeah, for sure. I mean, one of my clients that I really enjoy working with, I helped her declutter her house. And now she just wants to maintain it. And she's like England, I just love it when you come around, because I scheduled in my diary, I've got an Ingrid de you come round, we'll tackle a certain area in the house, because I don't want to slide back. And it's just much more fun when you're around. We have a nice chat. We put the worlds to ride. We talk about lots of different things. And you get to know these clients over the years. And it's just wonderful. And I see her a couple of times per year. And everybody's always like, Oh, your house looks so nice. She's like, Yeah, my professional organiser has been around to help me. And for her that really helps her because she does not want to go back to the cluttered rooms that we started with many years ago. And now just bopping every once in a while. We have a lovely day we work together, have a nice chat, have a nice laugh, she's happy, I'm happy. And it's just really great that I can maintain those relationships. And she feels really good about her house. So, so many different clients, so many different situations. And I think that what is what makes our job so interesting, Lesley, and why I love it so much.

Lesley  22:13  
Yeah, exactly. We absolutely love it just because it's, you know, you, we find out about jobs that we never knew existed and things that people do is so fascinating, because we love people and we love emotions. And so that's why we love the job that we do. And to be able to make a huge difference to somebody in a few short hours is such a privilege to us. Yeah. So Ingrid. So we've talked about I think we've I think we've made it clear that we love our job and we love our clients and what one can expect from a professional organiser that comes into your home. So be really careful. If you are thinking about hiring a professional organiser, really think that through, make sure you have that consultation, make sure that somebody's not somebody that says I am going to come and do it for you. Because that's not going to work due to me. Make sure this person feels like the right fit for you. That's the most important thing. So don't just choose one unless you have that gut feeling. Immediately, you know, shop around talk to a few different people who who sounds like the best fit for you, you know, increasingly depends on where you are really in the world. You know, there might not be that many options where you are if you're a little bit more remote, but if you're more urban, then there probably will be choices around as to who you can, who you can use. Now some professional organisers definitely have a niche or a niche as American friends say. which means that they specialise a little bit more now Ingrid and I think it's fair to say a more all rounders. And so we do most things. So we don't have a specific niche that we work within. But you might get somebody who's more business focused. If you have a an office at home, you might get somebody who's more time management and productivity focused. You might get somebody who's more hoarding focused or ADHD or chronic disorganisation. So the the kind of the more specifics of decluttering world, those kinds of things can be dealt with by some professional organisers. So if that's something that you feel, yeah, I'd like an organiser that understands fully my ADHD, then go and seek that out because it will be out there. That doesn't mean to say that a standard professional organiser can't do that and won't have worked with people with ADHD, you know, Ingrid and I work with people with ADHD as an example all the time as well, but there are people who specialise in that as well. So we talked about our life as professional organisers. And obviously two years ago, we decided to break out from our one to one clients and bring our services to more people with the declutter hub. So what did we think when we first started that we could bring that we were going to be able to bring what we bring one to one to a larger group of people? Let's talk about our journey because it's been really interesting, hasn't it with the declutter hub.

Ingrid  24:53  
You know, what less the I think to be honest with you, I think we just wanted to stay keep working together. We had such a good time on the Bored of Abdo, we really enjoyed working together. I think what you said, Let's just keep hanging out let's think of something and it's just, it's just been wonderful really, hasn't it? I mean, I think the thing is, we both realise there are so many people who want and would love help. You're in Manchester. I'm in London, we get calls all the time of people who want our help, because for some way they connect with us. And they're like, oh, but I'm in like, in I'm in Scotland, or I'm in Cornwall, ARMA in the US, or I'm somewhere else and and now I can't work with you. And that kind of made us think, How can we help more people? We basically got a thought, let's just try it out in we Lesley we had, I don't think we realised how fabulous and how wonderful our journey would be. If I'm honest. I think we we kind of it sounds like a good idea. Let's

Lesley  25:57  
just kill Ingrid. I'm not sure it's quite that. Let's just have a go and see how it goes. I think we did go into it with very specific business plan, by the way.

Ingrid  26:07  
I agree. I agree.

Lesley  26:09  
Yeah, it's definitely evolved. Because I think when we first started, we thought that we could put our expertise into an online course didn't weigh very, very quickly, we realised that the big thing that we could bring was ourselves and, and a sense of community, and to bring sort of light heartedness to the proceedings. And so that's what we try. And that's what we do with our clients. You know, I've said that our clients, many of our clients don't consider us to be friends. And it's the same with the declutter hub. And I think that's what's evolved. And so it's definitely, it kind of started out with more of a course scenario. And then very quickly, we're like, that's not enough, that's not going to, we're not going to be able to give to lots of people on mass than the same as we can give one to one if we're not ever present, if that makes sense. And so, and we know from what you guys say that you feel our presence with you, we get so many emails from people who are like, Oh, I feel like you're stood right next to me or whatever. So that's what we're trying to bring. And that's what's important because you feel very isolated when you've got clutter, and you feel like you're the only one who's got that problem, don't you? And I think to make that sort of mental leap into feeling like you've got support, if you haven't had that from your family and friends, which is the case for many, many people. It's important to have somebody you feel you've got somebody with you who understands. And that's what we try and try and bring, isn't it?

Ingrid  27:33  
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, the proof is in the pudding is there Lesley the emails we get from our members are like, Oh, I just love the courses. But I love it that you're answering my question in live q&a. It feels like having tea with a cup of tea with friends when I when we do the live q&a Every, every every other week. It's my favourite evening of the week when when I see you guys online, I love it, how you keep things real within the membership. It just, it makes thoroughly happy, doesn't it? You know, I mean, we've just we've just even seen it in the last couple of weeks. Lesley, we did our challenge back in January. And we had so many people who have now said, I know I became a monthly member. But I really want to upgrade to a yearly member because I've now seen how much you offer it. I have seen how much positive progress I'm making. I want to continue that I want to hang out with you guys. A lot longer than the original month I had planned and cannot please upgrade to a yearly membership. And we're like Yes.

Lesley  28:39  
And I think that's a really interesting point as well, Ingrid. I mean, yes, it's a lot of fun. That's what we like, but we do like people to make progress. And so the one thing I've learned and I've talked about this, our business journey, then so far was was really at the very earliest stages of at the moment. But the light bulbs have really gone on for us, haven't they in the last six months? Because I think what we find which is slightly different to One to One is the mindset change when you are doing it yourself is a little bit more permanent. So it's not to say that you can't get that with a one to one service. You absolutely can. But you're you're having somebody to come in and try and help you through that process where when you're working with a declutter, but although you feel that you're in a community of like minded people, ultimately the buck stops with you. You're the one that's got to get yourself up in the morning and said today I am going to do my spice cupboard or whatever it is. There's no one there's no Ingrid and Lesley saying, Come on. Let's do your spices. Do you not to me? Yes, we are kind of subliminally. But we're not right next to you and making you do it. Not that we make people do that, but it's very different. And so I think the commitment to the journey within the declutter hub and to towards that mindset change is the thing that I think in a membership scenario is very different to working with somebody one to one, we definitely see the mindset shifts with our one to one clients as well. But it's kind of different. And to a large degree, there's still that kind of once a reliance on us, but there's still that kind of, we want you to come in once a year to maintain it. And we're the same as the person that cleans the gutters. Well, no, we're not the gutter cleaning was a very bad. But you know, in terms of you get, you got to clean once a year, you get your windows done, however, often you do it and you get your professional organiser and to come and maintain your house every year. But of course, that involves quite a high level of disposable income to allow it and it's not something that a lot of people can afford.

Ingrid  30:37  
Well, yes, it is, Lesley, and I'm just thinking, indeed, if you hire us, or you or me, doesn't matter who the two of us if you hire us four to five hours, that will cost roughly about the same as becoming a yearly member in our membership. So it there's a different price brackets, you know, on this, you can eat a yearly support, but you have to do more of the work yourself, or you get me or you next to you for four or five hours, and it will about cost the same.

Lesley  31:14  
Yeah. And of course, if you and there were so many people, Ingrid, as we talked about right at the beginning, that are nervous to get somebody into the home because of the kind of embarrassment and guilt and you know, and that's, that's not right. And we're definitely here to say don't worry about that kind of thing with a one to one professional organiser, because we have a job because you have clutter. And so if you didn't have clutter, we don't have a job. And so for some for a lot of people, Oh, yes. But you still, you know, so we are far from going to judge you because we have our business because you exist and your clutter exists, if that makes sense. And and I've said that to a lot of people in the light? Oh, yeah, of course, you know, so but you still you can't change habit of a lifetime. If you felt that embarrassment and shame. And if you've been judged or your life, it's very hard, then for you to get out of that mindset, you know, and taking that leap of faith, which it really is for a lot of people, you know, we see it with the emails that we get from a one to one on a one to one basis, don't wait. People are like, oh, you know, my, this is so hard for me, I've sat there on your number for six months. And I've just finally plucked up the courage to call. So of course, if you become a member, you don't have to go through that because no one's going to come into your house and you can go through it alone, maybe at some point, you think, you know, I am ready to get a professional organiser and to sort of top that up or to, you know, to really tackle something that I'm finding really difficult. So the two could work very nicely hand in hand. And of course, we do have people that we work with on a one to one basis that are also in our membership as well, you know, to keep things ticking along really important to keep that momentum going. So I think it's super interesting. We love it. We could sit here and talk about this for another hour couldn't wait. Because we love the job that we do, whether that's one to one, or whether it's in our membership, it's really important for us, but the most important thing is that we don't want anybody to feel overwhelmed and to suffer with clutter anymore. And there is a way out, isn't there? There is a way out. But a lot of people need to be supported through that.

Ingrid  33:11  
Yes. So let me put you on the spot here that Lesley? Which one is better? a one to one? Or the membership? What's our advice? What do you think people should choose if they have to choose?

Lesley  33:28  
I think I don't think there's actually an answer to that. Because I think there are so many things that come into play. Because I think finance plays a big part in that. It really does. You know, so do do I think that you get value for money out of a one to one session with a professional organiser. Absolutely. Do I think you get incredible value from being a decluttered member? Yes, I do. I think you probably pound for pound. If I'm being honest, you probably get more value out of a declutter membership than you would know from a one to one session, because there's the longevity with that and there's a complete mindset shift because it's gonna take you more than one session with a one to one person to get to the same place. So pound for pound, if you've only got 200 pounds to spend. Spend it in the declutter of membership. Is that the right answer? Ingrid?

Ingrid  34:17  
So, okay, let me then say which one do you love more working one to one or being in the declutter membership? I'm really throwing you from the lines here. Am I not Lesley?

Lesley  34:30  
I love both of them. But I am very excited by the decluttered membership because it's quite new. It's quite fresh. It keeps us on our toes. So I think this is more personal than it is anything else. I think it's about us being excited by the work that we do and by the way that the business is developing because our clutter fairy business and your organise your house business take along nicely, don't they? We have worked out works. And so I'm not saying we don't develop those businesses, but because we absolutely do. But they're kind of solid and stable whereas the declutter hub is growing. And that's the interesting thing. I think about that stuff on a personal level. I love doing the declutter hub work, because it's getting to more people. I love the podcasting. We, you know, rather than having, you know, one person that we help, we get several emails a day, which is nice. So it's nice to be able to do that on a larger scale than we had done before. But do I prefer one over the other? In terms of working? No, I love them both equally, and they're both really relevant and necessary for the other to work. They work hand in hand, don't they?

Ingrid  35:44  
Yeah. I agree completely with you, Lesley, I could not choose even if I wanted to. I really enjoy equally as much. I love working with my clients. But I definitely love seeing all the progress that's being made by the members in the declutter hub. And seeing all the journeys unfold and their stories being told and the mindset changes that are happening. It's just absolutely wonderful to see. So I think that's it for this episode, isn't it? Lesley, is there anything else we need to add?

Lesley  36:13  
I think we want to just do a big shout out for Abdo and spring clearing week again. So we are at towards the tail end of spring cleaning week. I think there's a couple more days to go. But if you want some additional resources, the focus this week is very much about where to offload your decluttered things so donation, repurposing that kind of thing. So if that's something you're really really interested in, then do check out Abdel the Association of Professional declutters and organisers, you'll find them on Facebook, Twitter, you can sign up for their mailing list as well. And you can search for that hashtag spring clearing week, and you will find lots of useful information within updo.

Ingrid  36:51  
Yes, and we wanted to do a special shout out to all the professional organisers that we know are listening to this podcast worldwide. Thank you all for your support and for listening as well. So that's it for this episode. Thanks, everyone, for listening. We appreciate you taking the time to be here. And if you don't want to miss the next episode, subscribe to the declutter hub podcast. If you want more handy tips and advice from Lesley now you can find us in lots of places and do check out our Facebook group that declutter hub community with Lesley and Ingrid would would love to see you there. Now if you've been listening and thinking you know what this membership sounds so interesting, I would love to know more. I want to know how Lesley and Ingrid can help me because I am already in the Facebook group. I'm listening to the podcast, but I need more help with the clutter in my house. Do have a look at members dot declutter help.com Its members dot declutter help.com. And you can read how we can help you. You can join in our live q&a We can post with you in the forum, we have all our courses and quick wins there is so much in our membership. So do have a look a member so to clutter up.com Now if you're thinking to yourself, I am actually in the UK I'm in Manchester I am in southeast London. I need to have Ingrid and Lesley in my house right now it needs to happen or I need to have one of their team in my house because I want to tackle that clutter. Check us out on clutter fairy dot code at UK or organise your house.co.uk and you will be able to talk with us in person. So that was exciting, isn't it? Yeah, we do like we do love it. So I'm just feeling all giddy. The sun is shining today, Lesley. I'm feeling positive. And we just thanks so much for being here. Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you next week.

Outro  38:55  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Declutter Hub Podcast. Check out declutterhub.com for more inspiration, and don't forget to tune in next week.
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