A photograph of a smiling woman with blonde hair - Cas, Clutterbug
Episode 252 – The 4 organising styles with Cas from Clutterbug

In this podcast we welcome Cassandra Aarssen from Clutterbug. Many of you know her from her Youtube Channel, hosting the tv show Hot Mess house and her decluttering books. We chat through the Clutter Bug philosophy and the 4 organising styles associated with it.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
In today's podcast we're delighted to welcome Cassandra Aarsson from Clutterbug. Many of you know her from her YouTube channel, hosting the TV show hot mess house and her decluttering books. We're really looking forward to chatting through the Clutterbuck philosophy with cast today.

00:27
You're listening to the declutter Apple podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here are your hosts, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

00:50
Hello, and welcome, listeners. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Lesley. If you're new to the declutter help podcast you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find a fun factor in the serious business of decluttering. And if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast, it all takes place in our Facebook group. So come and join our lovely warm, supportive community. To find the Facebook group go to declutter hub.com forward slash group to find out more, or you can search for the declutter hub community on Facebook. Hi, thanks for having me. Hello, Cass. Thank you so much for coming on to our show.

01:36
Very excited to be here. I could listen to the two of you talk all day. Your voice is like, ah.

01:43
Likewise, we love Canadian. We love a Canadian accent as well. So thank you so much for being here. CASS it's lovely to see you. We feel like we know you already because you are we've watched your YouTube channel for years. Yes. How long have you had a YouTube channel cut a really long time I had mallet is so long. I think it's been 10 years for Clutterbuck, but then I had mallet toe 79. Before that even don't look that up. That's embarrassing, but I want to say that's like 14 years forever. That's how it's forever.

02:16
For anybody that doesn't know Cass Cass is another professional organizer. Uh, so she's got a big YouTube channel, it's got books, and she has this fabulous thing called the clutter, the Clutterbug philosophy. And we're gonna delve into that in a moment. But Cass has gone on quite the journey herself and considers herself to be a recovering super slob is that that's your terminology cat's nose. Okay. And so we'd love to know a little bit about your journey so far, and what brought you to here and what brought you into being a professional organizer, and why everybody loves your YouTube channel so much. I'm a naturally messy person, I think. I don't want to say messy. That's not nice. But I don't stop and think very often. I'm like over here or over here. And so when I'm doing things, whether it's getting ready in the morning, making a sandwich or writing a note, my mind moves on before my body has a chance to finish this task. And so naturally, I just leave things where they lie, because I'm already moved on. It isn't that I'm making a conscious decision to not pick up after myself. It really is that my brain just goes somewhere else. And growing up like this. My locker was a mess at school, and then my bedroom was always a mess. And even when I became an adult, I was never good at stopping and thinking and putting something away. If it was even remotely detailed, I would pay a bill, I would never think to file it in credit card or electricity bill, I would just shove it in the nearest drawer, because in my brain hidden was away if that makes sense. But then it got to the point where all my hidden spaces were jammed. I couldn't even open drawers or closets. And so I'd have a pile here and there. And then before you know it, I had a literal path from my door to the sofa, to the fridge to my bedroom. And I had piles that were even waist high. And I was stepping on my own belongings. But it was such a gradual fill that it's almost like I was clutter blind. And I didn't realize it until I got married and had children. And now there's other little people and big people in my house. And it was embarrassing and it was causing a lot of stress in my relationships. And I just also felt like such a failure as a mom. Like I'm a stay at home mom. And yet my house is ruined. My only job is to is to keep up on it. Why is it like this? And actually was sitting on the couch and a pile of clutter and a show came on called Clean Sweep with Peter Walsh and his words man about just it really was empowered.

05:00
worrying, he was like, you are more important. You're not, you're not respecting yourself, let go of the things you aren't using, you deserve this. And I cried, I was just crying, you know, watching the show. And I decided to try again. And I decided to really, really not to stack my stuff neater, and shove it tighter in drawers, but let go. And then create some organizing systems that were easy for me to maintain. And it changed my life. It changed my life in a way that was so profound. I was talking about organizing and decluttering to every single person I would meet. I mean, I'd be like, this will change your life. This is, have you tried putting your things into baskets? And my husband was just like, Could you stop talking about this? And for Christmas, one year, he gave me a little camera and he said, there's this new thing called YouTube. Could you stop talking to me and maybe make a video and post it online and share with you know, strangers, how they can change their life. And that's exactly what I did. And I guess the rest is history, or are also sort of working with friends and family, who eventually would like my sister needs help to or my friend or my neighbor. And I had clients calling me it was really a slow organic thing that came from like, a really, I was gobsmacked honestly, because my life was so much better. And I'm just like, you got to know this secret, everyone. And it's led to where I am today. Fantastic. So how how long did this journey takes it all sounds like Peter Welch. Walt came on the TV. And he went behind about this lightbulb eureka moment. And then you kind of fixed it. But presumably that was quite the journey to get to that point, right? Yeah, oh, God, it took a full year, a full year to get my house sorted to get it decluttered and everything kind of having a home and even those homes, I look back at it. Now. I'm like, Whoa, that was embarrassing. Like, it wasn't great. But everything had a place. It wasn't just shoved, everything had a place to go. And nothing was had access. That took a full year. And I worked on it. Every day, it was 15 minutes here, 15 minutes there. It wasn't like I was working 24/7. But the more I did, the more time I gained back in my day, that then it felt like, Oh, this isn't investment in myself, it didn't feel like a burden. Because I saw this immediate gratification, these immediate results. I'm an immediate, this is why I don't work out, okay, because I could run on a treadmill, and just be a little sweaty for 15 minutes or half an hour but not see a dramatic change. If I organize the junk drawer for 15 minutes, I've got something. I'm like, Look at what I've done. And I feel proud. And then the next time I use it, I feel proud all over again. And I'm saving time and this kind of was addicting. For me this slow and steady approach. It was like climbing out of a hole I had created. And every time I got a little bit higher, my life got better. And I just kept wanting to climb the convinces that decluttering is definitely the right thing to do. cuz I'll give you that.

08:21
But I mean, we see this well, they'll be Lesley it's like, you know, we say so many times to our members just do one thing, one item, one item is better than nothing, because so many people have an all or nothing mentality. And it's like, you gradually need to build it up. And we do see it in a membership that some members are like, I'm loving this so much. And I'm doing so much more than I ever thought was possible. It all started with my kitchen drawer and with my Tupperware and with my glasses. But now I want to, I want to do my digital clutter. And I want to do all the sentimental items. And I want to sort out my paperwork and I want to. But it all starts with one drawer that one cupboards that you can see a change in and just take it from there. But doing one item a day can already really help you to get started, especially in the beginning when it's really hard. Where do you start to start with one item and build it up accordingly. And then you start to get the hang of it and you start to see the changes appearing. And then it's absolutely life changing. And we so understand your journey and we sell because we've seen it ourselves with the clients that we work with in our houses, but of course also in the declutter hub membership where our members have changed the way they they feel about their house but also about themselves. Yeah, and I think I had failed so like I had tried to get it's still like I never tried but I had failed because I was trying to bite off more than I could chew. So I would like today I'm doing the kitchen and I honestly couldn't even see the counters because it was so messy to begin with.

10:00
but for some reason in my brain, I would, I would think, well, I have to open up all the cabinets and pull everything onto the floor, and sort things into piles. And then an hour later now my kitchen is worse than ever. And I'm crying in the corner. And I ended up just shoving things back eventually, you know? And then I thought, well, um, so why bother? Like, it's I can't, it just makes more work, it makes more mess. It wasn't until I started, like, I'm just doing this one little space. And my main goal is what can leave that was it like, what can leave what not? Can I? What can I organize? Not what can I buy, you know, at the store to put my things in, what can leave, that changed everything, because then I started creating space. So I could get organized, I could create these homes, I could, like do the things that you see on TV and have a spot for everything and everything in its home. But you can't do that when you're coming from a place of access first. So So did you have all of your storage containers already? Because you said something like, what can I buy to get more organized, but what we see a lot, people have all the storage, but they either can't find it, they forgotten that they have it, or they reuse it in the wrong place on a wrong route was that the same for you did you have lots of containers and boxes and things already in your home? I really didn't though I do see, like I would say what I run out when I'm dealing with clients, they have so many containers like the throwing plastic. But back then when I first started, this was a long time ago, organizing wasn't really a as as popular as it is now you don't go to the dollar store and find a bunch of bins. And so I didn't really have anything, everything was just kind of shoved. And there also wasn't a lot of things to buy that were affordable to put things in either. So the first containers I ever bought, were actually dish pans from the dollar store. And I was like tossing things in these dish pans. And I was like, wow, giving it a container within the container is kind of life changing. Like I have this much space to dedicate to, I don't know extra bathroom products like extra shampoo and toothpaste. If it doesn't fit, I can't keep it in here, this is all I get. That was also very life changing for me. Because before that my whole house was a container. And anywhere I could shove anywhere I was able to keep giving myself limits with containers was really, really life changing. But you have to kind of do the work of getting rid of the excess first because you as you know, when you are setting up homes for things that often takes up more space, than just shoving in cramming a closet full right? Like organizing properly, takes up more space than just cramming with your foot until you can shut the door. And that's something I didn't realize either when I was living with a lot of clutter. I think one of the really important things and Cassie, you were saying that you, you know that you focus very much on things leaving your house because you knew that that was what the problem was. But I think at first, when we just have clutter, we really struggled to understand the difference between what decluttering is what organizing is what tidiness and what cleaning is. And it all gets jumbled together in some horrible kind of thought of something that we really don't want to do. And so I think once you can we start straight away. That's the basics, right? You've got to understand the difference, there's a real difference. And you're absolutely right, and decluttering always has to come first and then you start doing the organizing, and then you think about daily resets. And cleaning comes in there somewhere along the way, a little bit interspersed. But I think just to distinguish the difference between those four things is really, really important. And it's not somebody that that a lot of people could understand straightaway. So, yeah, it's good to focus on that. And really, if you've got a lot of clutter in your work, if you were in the way that you were then casts I think it's so important to focus on getting stuff out, you know, getting stuff out on the day getting those things in, they've been both getting them away to charities that you don't have to worry about them. There's not like visual clutter around anymore. Yeah, absolutely. And, and then, like, you know, I'm passionate about knowing your organizing style. But you can't like a lot of people will say, well, they'll they'll be following me and I'm not sure what my style is. And I'm not sure and I'm like, well the first step is have you done a sweep? Have you just gone through not make piles but just have you let go of access because oftentimes, it becomes very apparent how you naturally organized when you're not fighting the access, right? And it becomes much more obvious what's working and what isn't, because you actually have systems that are naturally working because you have the space. We're very excited to know more about these organizing styles castle we Ingrid. Yes, yes, definitely.

15:00
So you've identified organizing styles and you call it the Clutterbuck philosophy. So can you tell us a little bit more about that? Cass? Yeah, first of all, I'm going to say you can't put everyone into four boxes. So I don't want any of your listeners to be stressed out. If they don't know what their organizing style is, there are a lot of people, I have no idea. I can't diagnose. I'm like, You're just, you're just you. And you're a little bit of everything. But most of the time, it is very apparent how you naturally manage your stuff. And I noticed this trend because I started working with clients about a decade ago. And I was so insecure about the fact that here I am a messy, messy person helping other people organize. I said to them, Listen, I don't feel comfortable taking money for this. If it doesn't stay organized for 30 days, call me and I'll come back and I'll organize it for free. And people would call and they say, I know you did my pantry. It looked beautiful, but it's messy again. And I don't know why Cass and I feel bad calling. But can you help me like this is your thing. You said you would do it for free? And I would, and I'd go back. And it was like, it was terrible. This is a terrible marketing strategy.

16:21
Because my husband's like, listen, you're paying for daycare for the kids on the weekends, you're going there your hours and hours reorganizing. You're not making any money. This is costing us money, like what are you doing? And I loved it so much. I really had to, I had to figure out why. Why does this work for one person and not another. And I do not believe it's just laziness, I had to get to why? Because I knew for myself, I can't do a really detailed system. If something has a lid on it, I'm not going to open the lid to put it away. So I need a laid back approach. Whereas my husband is super detailed. He wants that he doesn't want to just toss something in a drawer. He wants to make sure that everything has a really detailed home. So I felt that there was two ways to organize like a detailed system. And I call it a laid back system. But then it was very apparent to me that even if I got that, right, some people, I'd go back, the lawyers stood out for me a client, I kept going back to this lawyer, client. And we did, she was so detailed, and we put all her files in these really detailed categories and filing cabinets, we bought all these filing systems. And I'd walk back into her office and every flat surface had stuff on it, the floor had piles of paper everywhere was spread. And she said to me, I need to see it Cass like when it's in the filing cabinet, I almost feel like anxious, I want to work on it, I want to have it out till I'm done. I want to see it until I'm done. And then I realized she's visual, I need to create visual systems for her. When she brushes her teeth, she doesn't want the toothbrush in the drawer, she wants her everyday bathroom products visual on the counter. And that isn't clutter. And that isn't mess. She's out of sight out of mind. And so that's where this philosophy really came from. It's knowing like, are you naturally visual? Or do you prefer to naturally tuck your things out of sight? And are you naturally a very detailed person? Or are you naturally a more laid back person when it comes to how you manage your stuff. And this combination of visual hidden, and detailed or non detailed, it's how you sort in how you store makes up your Clutterbug style. And again, it can't put everybody in a box. But for the most part, I can diagnose someone style in minutes after meeting them. And I can set up a system for their everyday things that mimic that natural thing, that natural way that they manage their stuff. So when they are naturally putting things down, they don't have to think is hard. It becomes effortless because the organizing system catches their belongings how they naturally organize. And then people weren't calling me to come back and do it for free.

19:18
That's where it came from. Okay, well, perfect. Well, I would like to know more, I really want to delve into these four organizing styles. So let's go for a quick break. And then after a break, we'll find out all the names for this organizing styles as well. So come back soon.

19:34
Hi, everyone. Welcome back. So before the break, we were chatting to cash about her four different organizing styles. And she gave us an overview of visual non visual detail, not detail, but you've actually given the names habit UCaaS. So can you tell us the four names of your organizing styles and maybe delve in a little bit of detail how that works? Yeah, so we can start with the beautiful butterfly. I named this organ

20:00
sextile a butterfly because when you think of the insect, a butterfly, they sort of flutter around, you know, they're not really detailed. It's this flower and this flower, but they're very visual. So they're attracted to like the bright, beautiful flowers. And this is the same as a butterfly organizing style, a very visual person, it's very much out of sight out of mind, they want to see their important everyday things. But they also are not very detailed. They're like, over here, they have squirrel syndrome, I guess it's like over here over here. So they need a really laid back organizing approach, bigger categories, no lids, really simple, easy systems. And I call this the butterfly organizing style. And almost all small children are butterflies, but a lot of adults are butterflies too. And you kind of know you're a butterfly, if the top of your dresser has a bunch of stuff all over it. But the dresser drawers are really empty. You know, that's, that's a good indication that you might be a butterfly. And the next organizing style I call a ladybug. And a ladybug again, is a very laid back. They're not really detailed, but they're hidden. So they tend to tuck and hide things away. And I named this organizing style a ladybug, because when you think of the insect as a ladybug, their shell looks very shiny and beautiful. And then they open up their wings. And it's like, they're crunkle jacked up wings are tucked under their shell, you know. And that's, that's a lady bugs house, you walk in, you're like, Oh, this looks pretty tidy. And then you open a drawer or a closet. And it's like,

21:42
because the ladybugs just shoving they want things hidden. But they're not taking the time to put things away in a detailed way. They're not thinking about where they're putting things away. They're just like shoving everywhere. So that's a ladybug style. So hidden and non detailed. Then we have a cricket. A cricket is a traditional organizer. They want things hidden out of sight, but they're very meticulous and detailed. And I chose this bug because you never really see a cricket, but you hear them. Right? So they're hidden. And when they rub their legs together, it's mathematical perfection. So crickets are very, very detailed people, but they want things hidden out of sight. And last you have the bee, the very busy bee. And to be as a very visual person, again, you think of an insect, they're attracted to the bright, beautiful flowers. But a bee organizer just like a bee insect is very methodical. They're very logical, very detailed. Think of a hive, it's perfection, isn't it? Right? It's and they never visit the same flower twice. They're very, very methodical. And so as a bee organizer, very logical, very detailed, a bit of a perfectionist. And so that represents that style. And when you know yourself, you can, you know, you can really see these traits in yourself. You can say, Okay, well, this is why this organizing system works. And this is why this one doesn't. And they all have their own little like, little things that go with it. But it helps to know yourself. It's really comes down to self awareness, doesn't it? I'm already thinking now that several clients are popping into my head and like, oh, yeah, that person is exactly like that. And of course, me and Lesley had a whole conversation about this.

23:28
And now I'm thinking hmm, because we basically realized we think we're both crickets. But now when I listen to you, I've got to read up on all of your things. And I'm like, maybe I am a bee.

23:42
Yeah, you know what I always say, because cricket and B look very similar. It's very hard to tell them apart. But one of the easiest ways to tell them apart is two things. One is, what does your bathroom counter look like? So do you naturally when you're done with your product or your hairbrush? Do you tuck it away? Or do you naturally leave it out where you can see it? Right? And then you'd like to have like a desktop or an organizer out on the counter, that's generally a visual person would prefer to have those everyday things out. And then also like, where do you keep your reminders in your notes? Do you have like a closed planner? Or are you more of like a board a post it you need to have it up on the wall is that visual cue? It's a subtle difference between a cricket and a bee. It really is. And you might be a cricket be you might be a combination of both.

24:33
This is difficult really isn't as difficult because Ingrid and I are very different in terms of the way that we do things. So she's, she's definitely the detail person. We're both detail people. Of course we are because we're professional organizers. So perhaps we come out of the remit of the organizing styles a little bit more, but we're both we're both sort of quite meticulous, but you know, we've put things so we're not particularly so I'm not with it. Why am I saying I'm meticulous.

24:56
I'm quite laid back, right? So I'm the person who's like as long as you say

25:00
You're in the right place. It's good enough. It was the folder, the detail person, the one who likes to tick things off a list and I'm on to the next thing. Do you not mean so? So I don't know, really. But we so we are quite different. But we both had ourselves down as crickets, didn't we? But I'm like you when Cass explains it and like, I'm thinking B. Yeah, the both of us, which is scary. The fact that you and I do the same thing, Cass What are you Oh, come clean. So I'm a ladybug all day, I am not a detailed person, I want to have a home for everything. But that home has to be very, very simple. It's hard to put away, I won't, I'll just shove it anywhere. So I need to be able to open a closet and toss something away, like it's a basketball going in a net. Or else it just is a mess. And that's just the truth. So I am a hider, I will naturally like clear off all my surfaces, anything left out really stresses me out. But I do not put things away in a detailed way. In fact, how I file my paperwork, now you're going to die both of you're going to die. But listen, when I'm done paying a bill, I shove it in a basket called paid bills. 2023. And it just stacks and I deal with it at tax time. And that really works for me. And I set you know, on the bottom is January, then February, then march that April. But the truth is, I'm not going back to those things anyways. And if I have to it's kind of piled. But if I had to stop and file things like, well, this is this, and this is this and this, I wouldn't do it. And that's the truth. And so knowing yourself, and creating a system that is in my case, good enough, was critical to get my house under control and to help my clients to because I can set up the most amazing system for them. But if I leave, and a week from now, it's a mess again, because they can't manage the detailed system. I haven't helped them at all. In fact, I've made them feel even worse about themselves. Yeah. And I think a lot of the problem that we've got some times as well as you know, we would sort of of course, we work within those sort of parameters as well. But a lot of the time, it's trying to encourage the people that we work with what's actually what we would call micro organizing. And so I think you know, when when people are seeing beautiful homes and decanted cereals and stuff like that on Instagram all the time and Pinterest, people want that as the dream but we're like, but can you have you got it in you to achieve that? And so we're like, you know, either I mean, I, I just have an eye Ingrid, just at 54 gone into decamped and cereals for the first time because I'm like, I ain't got time for that. That's just I'm just not going to do it. Right. But now I'm like, maybe I've got to this stage in my life where I possibly can kids have kind of gone. And, you know, so maybe I've got the time to do that a little bit more. But I think it's, you know, you have but you have to understand yourself and what's going to work. And I think the problem is there's so much information out there on the internet with lots and lots of different styles and across a lot of the styles and down to the people that are creating them and putting things out. And that's what's so fantastic about yours cast is that you're going look, there's not one way to skin a cat here, there's loads of different options, and you need to pick one. So it's about that self awareness that we spoke about. It's not about creating something that looks beautiful, and you have to create a system, it's going to work otherwise it's going to fail, you know, and so I think you know, you're so right in that, but I still don't know what we are. But but you know what, that's okay. Because at the end of the day, like it really doesn't matter what your bug type is. What matters is the I love that you said the macro, I used to always call it micro and macro. But in the space that you're in, because it could You could be a very different space in your kitchen than you are in your bedroom than you in in your office. Are you going to come home from the grocery store if you're in your pantry, and you're going to take out the groceries out of the bag? And are you going to take the nuts out of the container every time and take this jar and take the old nuts out to put the fresh nuts in to put the old nuts on top? Is that you? Does that bring you joy? Is that something? And if the answer is no, then man just toss it in the basket called nuts. Yeah, on with your day. But some people love that like some people are really detailed know like, Listen, I want this level I want when I'm done paying a bill for it to go and like, you know, March electricity or whatever it is. Some people are like, I want that I need that I crave that I want to fold my underwear.

29:32
Is that your is that not and it's okay. But it's important to know the difference. So you're not wasting your time you're not wasting your money, buying containers that don't work for you. And

29:43
yeah, it just, I don't know gave me a lot of peace of mind. I don't fold. Can I just I don't.

29:50
I'm a professional organizer. And I do not fold any clothes in my house. There was a lot of shame for a long time in that but now I own

30:00
Neck. And I'm like, That's just because honestly, the Dickinson is is a new thing I'm with you. I'm like, You know what hanging it up on a hanger is much easier than folding anything, anything that can be hung gets home, as long as it's in the right drawer, and I can find all my knickers and all my socks together, that's good enough for me. So I'm definitely a kind of good enough sort of person. And it works. Because ultimately, all I want to do is find what I need when I want to need it when I need it and not have more than I need, you know what I mean? It's a simple concept really, you know, whereas it is a folder aren't you and loves that and always has been that maybe you're not a be maybe Lesley, you might be a little bit of a butterfly, you might be a little bit of a lady, but it doesn't matter. But at least you really recognize that in yourself. And that's the thing, we can be a more laid back person when it comes to managing our stuff. Yeah, and still be a very organized person. I think you're so right cast. And I think that's what so many members in our membership loves so much as well. We don't say this is how you need to do it, we say you can try this, maybe that works for you, I am a folder, here's a video with how I fold my stuff, Lesley doesn't fold the door she loves to hang, it doesn't really matter, find something that works for you. And, and start work with that. And then you will see the changes happening. You know, I mean, as you probably know, laundry is a big problem in people's houses, you know, it's laundry has to go through so many cycles, laundry is actually quite complex, it sounds very easy, but by the time you know it, you've worn it and it has to actually be washed in the right temperature with the right other colors. And it has to be dried inside or outside maybe in a dryer, maybe on a line that it has to be possibly folded, but it has to be divided into different people, then it has to go back into a cupboard or maybe aren't or notes, you know, there's so many steps. And that's what a lot of the clutter also comes from. And that's when we see piles of, of mainly clothes, a lot of other people's houses. And what happens is they buy more because they somewhere along the line, there's a breakdown. And then it's like I've run out of everything. Let me buy more basically making actually everything worse because the more laundry the more chaos. And you have to start with the cupboards and with the drawers. And not I want to fold all my knickers in exactly the same way it has to go with. Is the system working for you? Where what goes well, and where does it go wrong? And let's work on that. And a lot of times we say you have to open a cupboard at some point. If there's lots of clutter out, it's great that you want to tidy away but if your cupboards are full, where are you going to tidy it away to, you're going to have to at some point declutter those cupboards and drawers drawers and those shelves to make space for the stuff that's out because it's stuff that's out, you use all the time. So you know, and I just think for me, okay, so listen, listening to you here talk about laundry, I've embraced the fact that I have this like laid back, I'm a laid back Ladybug, I wash everything on cold. I do not sort by colors, mono care, it all goes in the wash, it all goes in the dryer, it all gets tossed away. Sometimes I don't my my pajamas, this little crinkled ball like this just Shep but all the pajamas are in the pajama drawer, and that my kids are this. And that's all that matters, because it's not everywhere. And we have this perception, if we're going to do something, we're going to do it right. And that type of pressure we put on ourselves often adds to clutter because we're not that person, we think we have to be that person who's going to do everything in all these steps, but it just isn't us. And so we leave it till we get the motivation to be that person that we're really not which never comes and so it's okay and I feel like this is why I really feel it's important to like know yourself, and just give yourself permission but and just it's okay if you're just like washing all your laundry and cold and if something needs to be ironed in my house guess where it goes into the donation bin

34:16
I lived in nice funny actually say that customers have spoke about this before on the podcast but for a couple of years in my kind of mid 30s I lived in the States for a while and so in the UK when you go honestly what are you doing to go go home and do my ironing let on I went to the state for two years never never mentioned the item like what did they do there? I was like what is that then? And it was alien was that like you know obviously this big and dry isn't all Oh my Oh, there's a whole world that means that you don't have to actually iron and all of a sudden then this should just get it out the dryer, put it on a hanger smooth it down good enough or buy the right kind of stuff and it was a whole revelation to me. So since then I'm like if we can get hanging rail in the utility room for training smooth

35:00
Get it done. Job done. No, I am required to not to mean so and so maybe it's a North American thing.

35:07
Maybe it is, I think, to like, yeah, we buy a lot of crappier clothes, maybe there's a lot of polyester in my wardrobe. I'm not gonna lie. And so you could literally just shake that thing. It could be a crumpled, tight ball, and you just shake it. It's like, oh, yeah, but I searched clothes like that out. Because I know myself, yeah, I'm not going to take things out of the dryer and immediately put them away, I'm going to dump them into a laundry hamper, and put them away even hours, even the next day, possibly. And so I needed to have clothes that kind of are kind of complement my laid back. But I need to have everything that complements that, like I look at my things differently now that I understand my organizing style, so that my life is just less complicated, because I can't do complicated and that's okay. Yeah, for sure. It's all about being kind to yourself, isn't it? We talk so much here in the declutter club about being kind to yourself and, and not giving yourself a hard time and, and also, indeed, you know, what's important for you? And what do you want to spend your time on? I mean, I love my folding, it's for me, I find it just therapeutic to sit there and just folded neatly and put it all neatly away. It makes me happy. So you know, and the toy doesn't bother me. And I don't mind spending time on it. So but other day, you should do it. Like that's it. You do you sound a little You're definitely a cricket or be like a hardcore. I'm definitely.

36:38
Yeah, I'm

36:42
good enough. Good enough. But for Super ancient, but a super interesting, and I think it just resonates so much with everything that we teach as well, everything that we believe in, and everything that's important for us, isn't it? Lesley? Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, cuz I think it's all about, you know, finding somebody that understands you, you've obviously got a bundle of energy, you're really honest, you're very realistic. And that's what we love. And that comes across in all your fantastic, amazing content that you put out there was actually podcast was actually a YouTube channel. So obviously, if anybody wants to go and check that out, where can they find you? Cass? Well, you could find me, you can just Google Clutterbug, and I really do suggest you go to Clutterbug.com and take the free quiz. I'm not going to ask for your email. I'm not going to spam you. If you're just curious. You can go to Clutterbug.com. Take the quiz. And be honest with yourself. Don't answer the questions based on what you think. Or even what your house looks like. today. I really look inside yourself and be honest with you and your cornice. And I think you might be surprised by the answers that you get. And it's helpful to give yourself a little grace when you have more understanding of your natural organizing style. So search Clutterbuck, you'll find me all over the place. I think that's the problem and grid. We didn't actually take the quiz. We just thought that we knew because we're professionals. Yeah. From the from the from the summary. So maybe we need to take the quiz class.

38:15
I think that's what we need to do. Yes.

38:18
Definitely. End of the day, though, listen, it doesn't matter if the both of you know yourselves. And that's that's what this is really about. You know what works and you know what doesn't and you own that and you can, who cares? Who cares if you fall into a category at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is that you really know yourself, then you could be a combination of all sorts of different styles. I don't want people to get so stuck on that I want people to understand like, it isn't one size fits all. You don't have to put your things in rainbows. And you don't have to hide everything and shoe boxes. And you don't have to fold into neat little stacks. You only have to do what works for you. Yeah. Well, amen.

39:00
Brilliant. Absolutely. Thank you so much for being here. And yes, listeners. Do Colette cassis quiz and let us know in the comments. Tell us on Declutter. hub.com, forward slash 252. And let us know what you are. Maybe you're going to be something completely different. Maybe you're listening thinking haha. I am a ladybug and then you do the quiz. You're like, wow, I'm actually a cricket. This is interesting. We need you to tell us so tell us in the comments. We'd love to know. Thank you casts so much for being our guest in the show. We really, really love having you and take care and all the best. Thank you so much.

39:45
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode. And we'll see you next week.
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