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Episode 235 – The true cost of clutter

It will come as no surprise that we believe that clutter is costing you dearly. Some of these costs are plain to see, but in todays podcast we are going to delve into the lesser known ways that your clutter is having a negative impact on your life.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Ingrid: It will come as no surprise that we believe that clutter is costing you dearly. Some of these costs are plain to see, but in today's podcast, we're going to delve into the lesser known ways that clutter has a negative impact on your life.

Voiceover: You are listening to the Declutter Hub podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here are your hosts, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Leslie. If you're new to the Declutter Hub podcast, you are so welcome. What you'll find here is reality, empathy, and advice by the bucket load. And if you've been here for a while, thanks so much for listening. If you'd like 

Lesley: the added bonus of watching us, as well as listening, you might want to find our podcast on our YouTube channel.

Search for the Declutter Hub, and you can see us chat each and every week. Don't forget to subscribe to our channel so it pops into your notifications each Friday too.

Ingrid: Well, Lesley, this is quite a big podcast that we're recording today, so we need to make sure that nobody feels all negative by the time we finish recording this because it's, it's quite heavy, isn't it?

Lesley: It is quite heavy. The cost, the true cost of clutter. It's quite heavy topic really, isn't it? So we are gonna talk about a lot of kind of negative things in this podcast, but I think it's really important that we think about the negative. Things so that we become self-aware. Once we've got that self-awareness, that's the point at which we can start to make positive changes.

So we're not gonna give you tons and tons of fantastic positive kind of uplifting information, but we are gonna give you some food for thought in terms of the real cost of clutter. Now, of course, we take it right back to basics. I'm gonna talk about the financial cost of clutter, all that stuff in your home has at some point, probably, mostly, cost you money, right? So at the time that you bought it, it cost you money, and at the time that you bought it, you probably didn't consider it to be clutter. It has just become clutter over time. If this is something, of course, that you want to let go of. So we really need to go right back to basics to examine our shopping behavior to think about the cost of acquiring things that we don't need or are not serving us in our current life right at the beginning. So there is a financial cost to clutter at the point of acquisition, and that's the first point, but that's quite obvious, right? But let's talk about some of the things financially that are not quite so obvious, Ingrid.

Ingrid: Yes. I think also Lesley, what we do when we have a lot of clutter, we forget what we have, and that sounds completely contradictory because we think the more stuff we have, the more stuff we can use. But what we see is that actually the more clutter you have, the less stuff you can find. So you end up buying things over and over and over again.

Lesley: I know it's really important, isn't it? To have that inventory, I think, to, to really have a good feel, and that's where an organization comes out. This is where categorizing like with like comes in so you can truly see what you have. So you know when you go out to the shops, Exactly what you have at home.

And so you don't start buying all those duplicates and that will save you money. I mean, the amount of money that people save by having a good handle on what you've got in your home is colossal. It costs you so much money to go out and buy those duplicates, and so that's something that we really need to eradicate out of our lives.

Now I wanna talk a little bit about physical, actual money Ingrid as well, because. . One of the things that we spoke about before on this podcast is it always surprises us when we find like coins. There's one thing, there's many things that we understand about clutter and where it comes from. One of the things that you and I are like, how does that happen? Is when we find like coins scattered on carpets and floors, right? It's kind of strange. We're like, what suddenly makes someone. Empty out their pockets or their purse and put it all on the floor. You're with me, right? We've spoken about this before. I like, how does that actually happen? So if anybody does know, like please enlighten us in the comments because we'd love to know. But I think that we can be quite, if we have a lot of clutter in our house, we can be quite sort of laissez faire sometimes about money. About money that's come, you know, the coins that we spoke about, about money that we've been given as gifts about money that we put in coat pockets and, and, and we can find money. We find a lot of money, right? Ingrid, and that's actual money. And then there's checks and gift cards, which I know you wanted to talk about.

Ingrid: Yeah, I mean, it's not only indeed like hard cash, but it's also the nice gift card that we got for a birthday or for a special holiday or whatever, and then we leave it in the envelope or in the card and we put it to the side somewhere and we forget all about it. It's very satisfying to find gift cards and, and vouchers and things like that because it feels like you've rescued something and it's like, oh, it doesn't go out of date anymore. You can actually use it because somebody has been so kind enough to give you something and then you can actually use it and actually, well maybe buy something else for your house, but at least you're buying something that you want.

Lesley: One of the nice things as well about gift vouchers, Ingrid, or gift cards, or what do they call them elsewhere in the world? They don't call them gift vouchers, they call them something else. I can't really remember, you know like,

Ingrid: Maybe coupons.

Lesley: No. Coupons is different, isn't it? Because coupons is like money off gift...

Ingrid: Receipts.

Lesley: Can't remember. Anyway. You know what I mean? The things that you buy to allow you to spend money, there's definitely a, a word for it, but I can't remember it. Please tell us what that word is in the comments. It's uh, it's deep in my, um, American memory might be different elsewhere in the world as well, to be fair. And so I think that. The thing is about gift cards is they used to be, they never had an expiry on them, right? And so you could find them five, six years later, 10 years later sometimes, and the shop would still honor them. But I think that's changed now. I think that's changed. I think there's expiry on gift cards and coupons and I think we do something different with gift cards and coupons as well, Ingrid. We kind of put them to one side rather than putting them in the place that we're gonna spend them. And the reason why we do that is because we think they're gonna kind of burn a hole in our pocket almost, don't we? Like, we're gonna feel compelled to use them if they're in our purse or uh, in our wallet or something like that.

And so I think our behavior with gift cards is quite strange sometimes as well. So we really need to think about that. And if you have got a gift card, make sure it's somewhere where you're actually gonna use it.

Ingrid: Yes and book up that nice thing or, or get that, that thing that has been really like on your mind that you would love to maybe relax with or maybe you've been meaning to get a nice book or something to chill with. Very important.

Lesley: I think there's something really special about a gift card that makes it even more, you know if you get like a 20 pound gift card somehow, it definitely feels more special than a 20 pound note.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Lesley: Are you with me?

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah.

Lesley: It's like, oh, am I gonna spend that on? Do you know what I mean? You'd really want to, if somebody's, if somebody's given you that as a gift, you really want to do the right thing by that 20 pounds where you might just go and spend 20 pounds down at the Green Grocers without even thinking about it. Do you know what to mean? So anyway, we could go on for ages about gift cards and money, but of course there is a financial cost to clutter. But what comes next, Ingrid?

Ingrid: Yes, we wanted to talk about time because clutter can take up massive amount of time in having to move it and clean it and tidy it and rummage through it, and then put it back and all of that kind of stuff. If you're looking for something, so if, for example, every day you need to look through items to find your, your purse and your wallet and your, your phone and your keys, all that time, instead of if you would have your item in a certain place, it would not take that time. It's a really hidden cost of clutter.

Lesley: Yeah, all that time just hemorrhaging away throughout the day. And of course we can talk about the amount of time it takes to declutter your clutter as well. You know, that involves a large investment of time. If that's something you're gonna focus on, then it's gonna take a long time. This, this is not something that built up overnight, and so it's gonna take a long time to sort through and make decisions on.

So that emotional decision making on clutter takes a serious amount of time. And of course, all that time that you are spending, managing your clutter, managing your stuff means that you are spending less valuable. Positive time with your friends, with your family, with doing your hobbies. We just, you know, the, the sort of chores and finding things just takes time, right?

Takes time away from doing the things that we wanna do.

Ingrid: Yeah, I think definitely as well, what you see a lot is that when. A house is quite cluttered. It's really difficult to then clean it. It takes a lot more time because you have to move stuff around all the time. Well, if you have less clutter, it's like, oh, it's actually much, much easier to get the chores done around the house.

And actually then, Do something that I want to do even, you know, it can be spending time with friends and family, but it can also be spending just time for yourself doing a, a, a hobby that you like, or an art or a craft that you really enjoy. Or just reading a book or watching a favorite series, or, I was actually talking to one of my clients the other day. She said, Ingrid, I don't know how people have time to watch whole series and book sets because I feel like I'm forever doing stuff in my house all the time.

Lesley: I am completely binging Happy Valley at the moment, so I am finding time to watch a whole box sets.

boxes. 

Ingrid: Yes, I'm with you. You gave me the tip about Happy Valley, so I'm now completely caught up to series two, which was like amazing. So now I have got the last series to go so nobody can talk to me about how it ends because I'm like, I don't wanna know. I don't wanna know, because I've got series three to go.

Lesley: And I'll tell you a strange thing about Happy Valley. So if anybody's not in the UK, because I feel like it is a UK only thing maybe, what do you reckon? I mean, it's BBC, um, that doesn't mean to say that it's not gone elsewhere in the world. If you haven't got it, then you need to definitely look for it.

Um, so I told. Ingrid about Happy Valley. Oh, it's amazing. You need to watch it. I've watched all the series and all that. I'm on holiday and I'm seeing all these things like, oh, the most amazing thing ever. And people talking about the last episode and, and I'm like, why are people talking about it now?

Has nobody just binged it five weeks ago like I did? So something that was kind of eluding me, but I didn't wanna search it because I'm gonna do spoilers, right? I'm like, have I missed half the episode? Have I missed half the season? Did they release some more episodes after I watched it? So I came back. I've only watched, um, season one.

Ingrid: What.

Lesley: So I'm like telling you to watch it and you're further ahead than me now. So I'd never watched it I was like, why are they talking about such and such-abody being a teenager? So, yeah. So yeah, I am on the first episode of season three.

Ingrid: You're on the, oh yeah. So, now you're a little bit ahead of me then because I've just finished season two and it's brilliant. So if you are in the UK and you can watch it on BBC iPlayer do so because it's like one of the best things I've seen in a long time.

Lesley: Absolutely. So a little bit of a diversion, but um, just if you'll talk about watching box sets, then that's what happens with my mind. When we're told, so let's get back to time, because I have spent inordinate amounts of time this week watching Happy Valley, which perhaps didn't make me as productive as I might be with all the things that I should have been doing in my house. But I wanna talk about productivity and something that is really kind of close to our minds because we have to be super productive at work. And most of the, the job that we do, obviously is digital, right? So we're dealing with a lot of technology. We're dealing with a lot of files and emails and all of that jazz photos, graphics that we put out there.

So we have to be super organized and efficient, um, with all of our digital stuff, right? Ingrid still got a long way to go, haven't you? Ingrid? Although she's catching up, she's not very good. On the email front, are you at this moment in time, productive, efficient in terms of filing? Not so good in terms of deleting?

I do want to talk, correct. I do want to talk about the amount of time it takes for you to wade through digital clutter. So if you don't have emails, for us it's graphics and stuff like that that we use. We, we have this really slick system, don't we? Of finding these things now, but it's taken us a while to get there, right?

And so it's really important to make sure that you've got something that is easy to use. And if you've got more than you need, then that is definitely gonna detract from your productivity.

Ingrid: Yes, and I think especially email, I mean, people who are not like us running their own business, I think in their personal lives emails can really take over the unread emails, the emails in, in boxes that are now so full that you actually get messages back from people saying your message can't be delivered because the in inbox is full, and then they start a second email you know, those, those things that just needs time, effort, and energy to resolve and get, get on top of that again, because otherwise you're just basically plugging one hole with the other. I think.

Lesley: Yeah, definitely, definitely. So when are you gonna sort your emails then, Ingrid?

Ingrid: Well, I've got no problems, Lesley. I'm absolutely fine. I need to delete a bit better, but my, my systems are all hunky dory. Thank you very much.

Lesley: Your systems are good, but I'm just not sure about the 300,000 emails that you've got from 2009 or whatever when you started your business. But hey, let's not talk about you. Let's talk about the third thing that we wanted to talk about, which was, it costs us space, right? It costs us space in our homes. What does that look like?

And so it very much looks like rooms in your house that you can't use for purpose, right? So if you've got what we like to call a room of doom, where it's kind of just become a dumping ground storage room and you can't use it for the, for its intended purpose, then that is costing you valuable space. You are giving up one room in your house, two clutter that you don't need, and that is costly there's a real cost to that.

Ingrid: Yes, because you know, maybe your goal is I want to have my best friend over to come and stay, or my, I would love to invite my grandkids to come and play, but if you've got lots of clutter, that can't happen. So the space can really impact your current life, but also where you want to go to, right? Because if you've got a lot of clutter, it might prevent you from being able to move house or being able to downsize to a smaller property because the clutter gives you so much overwhelm, you can't see a way forward to kind of go where I am, am I currently, and where do I want to go to. It can really hold you back.

Lesley: I wanted to talk as well about storage units. So it's interesting actually cause I just, one of my Clutter Fairies, Victoria was doing a job this week. Um, and you know, she tells us this notes about what they've been doing and things like that. And, um, she talks about this storage unit this lady had, and she was paying something like 300 pounds a month for a storage unit. Two sessions of decluttering with Victoria, which obviously costs money to be fair, and that storage unit is now gone, right? And so storage units are a massive, massive cost, right? And people feel that they want them because they're not ready to get rid of that stuff, honestly. People always think, oh, it's gonna be tempering, then we're gonna go down and I'm gonna spend time on sorting my clutter out in a kind of controlled way.

But time just disappears, doesn't it? And the costs just start to increase , increase and increase. And it's a massive amount, uh, uh, a massive cost. It like 300 pounds for her 3,600 pounds a year, right? That's a, a massive amount of money, isn't it?

Ingrid: That's like a very nice holiday, Lesley, that's a very nice, that's several weekends away is that.

Lesley: Exactly. Exactly. And what would you rather have a storage unit full of stuff that actually isn't seeing the light of day, which is what happens. I mean, some storage units are useful, right? I'm not saying all storage units are never useful. There are times when storage units are necessary, like when you are downsizing, when you are transitioning, sorry, not downsizing. More transitioning from one house to another. When you are selling your house, of course, when you're having building work done, storage units are really useful, but are storage units useful for keeping stuff that you don't need anymore, although you're not ready to make a decision on? No. In my opinion, I've never seen anybody with a, a kind of positive idea about a storage unit just based on that cost.

Ingrid: Yeah. And I think the, the costs creep up as well. In the beginning. It doesn't seem so much, and in your head, it's only for a short time in the beginning. But you know, I've had a client as well who told me, she said, Ingrid, I've, I've had, because she lived here in the UK, she was American. She said, I've had a storage unit in the States for a decade.

And I can't even tell you what's in it. And then she actually had somebody else look and it's like, there was like two mattresses. She said, do you think I will still sleep on a mattress that's been in the storage unit for 10 years? What was I thinking? And there were some other little bits and bobs there as well, but she said, it's just been all been untouched.

What a waste of money.

Lesley: I know and we were talking about transitioning there as well, from one home to another. I think one of the things that clutter stops you from doing is moving home, downsizing quite often and a lot of people are like, there's just no way that I can downsize and save money in principle by downsizing because I've got all this clutter that I need to transport with me. So it's just not possible. 

So I think there's a, a kind of hidden thing, which means that you can't move on to the next place in your life where you do recoup some of that money, or you do free up some of that investment that you've made in the past. So space is a huge one and one that we don't often think about when it comes to the real cost of clutter.

Ingrid: Yeah. Well, let's go for a break and let's talk some more about the true cost of clutter after.



Ingrid: Hi everyone. Welcome back. Before the break, we talked about the financial impact of clutter, time and space. So let's continue talking about the true cost of clutter, Lesley.

Lesley: Yes. The next thing we want to talk about is health, and that's both physical health and mental health. But let's get started on mental health Ingrid, cause that's something that we talk about a lot at the Declutter hub. There are so many emotions that come along that detract from good, positive mental health, aren't they? And clutter is a big cause of these, right? Worry, anxiety, guilt, not being kind to yourself. Negative self-talk. They're all there, aren't they? And they all impact on our mental health hugely. We can't stress this enough. Clutter has massive damaging effects on our mental health, doesn't it?

Ingrid: It completely drains your energy, Lesley, when you come into a house or a room that is full of clutter, you can just feel the energy drain from your body and it completely lives in your. Head all the time, and it almost creates some, a bit of fuzziness. It's like, because you can't see the wood for the trees anymore, you don't know what you need to do next.

All this clutter is either very quiet and it feels like a wall, or it's talking to you the whole time. You haven't done this. I'm still here. This is your job you haven't done. Why haven't you opened this post? Why is this ironing not put away? All these jobs that are just completely feel like a barrage of things you want to do, and it's just very, very draining. A lot of people talk about low energy, about feeling so tired all the time. Just drained.

Lesley: Definitely, I think, and I think it's about that kind of negative self-esteem as well, and you portray that to other people and you become known as the person with the clutter, right? It's, it's just all so negative, isn't it? And it takes a while to get through these feelings. And this is not something that's gonna disappear overnight, ingrid. This is gonna take a lot of effort and a lot of, again, it's gonna take a lot of emotional energy to even get there, but I think the first thing we need to do is kind of allow ourselves to draw a line under it and go, this is not acceptable.

This clutter is affecting my mental health, and I want to do something about it. First thing you need to do is be kind to yourself. Know that you're not on your own. Know that other people feel exactly the same way. Other people are good at some things. You are good at different things, but decluttering organization has not been one of your strengths. But that can change, right? We can learn how to do that slowly but surely, and that is gonna have a massive, um, effect on your mental health going forward. And so we need to take away the cost of that clutter on your mental health and spin it into a positive don't we.

Ingrid: Yeah, and I think you can do that by like, you know, we talked about many times before in, in, in previous podcast episode. Break it down, keep it small. Be kind to yourself. Give yourself from the back. Don't say to yourself, oh, I'm just lazy, or I'm stupid, or I can't do this. That's not gonna go anywhere you need to go. Okay. Actually, yes. What have I done? Don't think of everything that you haven't done, but start to kind of either even write down for yourself, oh, this is I've done today, I've done this, I've done that. And then you can start to look back and feel positive about the things that you're doing instead of thinking of everything that you haven't done.

Lesley: definitely. So mental health is a biggie, and we could literally spend 10 podcasts worth talking about mental health and the impact that clutter has on that, we want to talk a little bit about physical health as well. Um, so less obvious in some instances, but as the clutter starts to build, as it starts to get, as the volume starts to get high, clutter can definitely have an impact on your physical health as well can't it, Ingrid?

Ingrid: Oh yes, definitely. I mean, first of all, people who have clutter, it can be very easy to trip or hurt yourself or bump into something or stub your toe or you know, kind of the, the near misses of things you that have happens. And of course, if the volumes go up vertical. You kind of get these precarious piles of stuff that might topple over if you're not being careful and you have to hold your clutter in a certain way, or kind of once you have to wedge things in so it doesn't fall over, then you know, okay, this is, this is actually really impacting on my physical environment.

Lesley: Definitely, and I think there's, there's a crossover isn't there? Sort of fibromyalgia and those kind of things. It's a kind of crossover of physical and mental. But that's a big thing that we see in that clutter has a big impact. People with fibromyalgia, people with ME really struggle to get that energy, and it just because it weighs us, weighs on us emotional, a, it weighs on our mental health. It also affects us in our physical health as well, because it's exhausting. Clutter is exhausting. If you already struggle with something that affects your energy and zap your energy, then that's gonna be even worse and it's just gonna, um, perpetuate that even more. 

The last thing that we wanted to talk about Ingrid, and this is a really, really big one, and so it's probably the most important one to be fair is about relationships. There are so many people who are prioritizing stuff over relationships with their family and friends, and we all know that family and friends are what makes the world go round are what makes.

Special and important, and we should be prioritizing relationships over stuff, right? And so what clutter does is it impacts those relationships. So within the home, if you live on your own, and that's different, but if you've got all the people living in your home, Your relationships with a partner, your relationships with your children, your relationships with your parents are all going to be impacted by clutter because people will judge you harshly, and there can be a lot of tension, there can be a lot of resentment, right? If you are the one that is, you know, blamed for the clutter, let's call it that.

Ingrid: I think even more Lesley, I think there's a lot of arguments about clutter. You know, it can be if a partner is very tidy and you are the cluttered one or the other way around. There can be massive arguments about the clutter, about the stuff, but on top of that about the chores, because everything gets hard work.

You know? It's also then the relationship with the children. They don't tidy up their room. They drop everything on the floor, and it feels like none of it is working. Just none of it is working. So we see clutter having a massive impact on relationships.

Lesley: Yeah, definitely. And I think if you are, you know, going right back to what we spoke about right in the beginning of the podcast, I think if you are, if you've got that visual clutter and you're going into a room and all. See is what you need to do, then you are gonna be spending time doing those things overspending times with your nearest and dearest, right?

You're gonna be prioritizing doing the stuff, overspending time with the people that you love, and that's negative, right? That's a real cost to your life, you know? You know, you're not gonna look back on life and think, I wish I'd spent more time sorting out my stuff. You're gonna look back on life and think, I wish I'd spent more time with my children, with my family, with my friends, with my partner, et cetera.

And so really, really important to recognize the impact of, um, clutter on relationships. I think also, , it has a negative impact on relationships because of the way that you feel about whether or not you are supported. And so it works both ways, right? And so they, other people might be resentful about your clutter and, and kind of pin that on you, but you also might feel resentful about them because you believe that they should help you with chores, with clutter, with sorting things out at certain times.

And so it's this kind of roundabout of problems, isn't it?

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah, and I think that is such a shame because, I think originally we bought the stuff because we think it makes us happier, but in the end, what we find out is that all the clutter actually prevents us from being happier and spending more time on the things that we want to do. It's such a vicious circle, isn't it? It's such a vicious circle.

Lesley: Absolutely is. So woo. That was a biggie wasn't it?

Ingrid: I know

Lesley: A nice, depressing podcast about the true cost of clutter. But I think as we said right at the beginning, it's really important for us to be aware of what this is costing us. You know, why are we letting this stuff in our home, do this to us? Do this to our finances, do this to our time, make us less productive, make us not be able to move house, affect our physical and mental health, and affect our relationships.

And so, but it can be sorted out, right? As we've said, yeah, we just need to go slowly but surely through the process. Loads of fantastic information on these podcasts if you really want to go for it. Loads of fantastic information in our membership as well to help you on your way to working through this stuff slowly but surely, and getting yourself into a positive place.

Saving time, saving money, improving your relationships, improving your mental health and wellbeing. The wellbeing side of it is huge, isn't it? Ingrid. So once we see people who've worked through that clutter and come out of the other side, then it just has such a positive impact. We have never, ever seen a negative impact of decluttering in our whole 13 years of doing this, have we?.

Ingrid: Mm. I think it's really, it, it's, it opens doors that people didn't think were possible, and I think that's what we love so much about the members that we take on their collecting journey and they're like, wow, I'm starting to see things in such a different way. And it's, it's, there's so many benefits and I'm actually finding even more benefits than I even thought before I started this decluttering journey, and it's lovely. So we really hope that this podcast has given you a little bit of insight into the cost of clutter, and we would love for you to share that with us. What have you realized is your true cost of all your clutter. Tell us in the comments. If you go to declutterhub.com/235, you can leave us a comment and we'd love to hear from you. Now, Lesley, next week's podcast is going to be one we've never done before.

Lesley: I know next week we are gonna be talking about books, so it's taken us over 200 episodes to talk about books, but next week we are going to be delving into decluttering and organizing books. Now it's a biggie, isn't it? Books is a big one. So do tune in if you are a book lover.

Ingrid: We can't wait to see you there.

Voiceover: Thanks so much for listening to the Declutter Hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode, and we'll see you next week.
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Recent Posts
Episode 361 – Decluttering for yourself – why Swedish death cleaning might not be for you

Episode 360 – Gretchen Rubin – The secret to happiness in a cluttered world

Episode 359 – Matt Paxton – Finding the treasures in the trash

Episode 358 – Ingrid and Lesley go hypothetical

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Annette says:

31 March 2023 at 7:12 PM

Gift Certificates.

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  4 April 2023 at 10:56 AM
  
  Indeed Annette. Gift certificates are often overlooked as well and then go out of date.
  
  Reply
Episode 235 – The true cost of clutter

Episode 361 – Decluttering for yourself – why Swedish death cleaning might not be for you

Episode 360 – Gretchen Rubin – The secret to happiness in a cluttered world

Episode 359 – Matt Paxton – Finding the treasures in the trash

Episode 358 – Ingrid and Lesley go hypothetical

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