A graphic of a woman sitting on the floor in despair in front of a cluttered wardrobe
Episode 151 – Are you a tortoise or a hare?

Episode 420 – 10 Small Clutter Problems that Create Big Stress
Episode 419 – Why repairing is better than buying new with Martine Postma from Repair Cafe
Some people are tortoises and some people are hares.
That’s the reality within most things in life. Some people are slow and methodical and others like to race through and get the job done.
In this podcast, we discuss the pros and cons of each method and the factors to take into consideration.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Ingrid: Are you a tortoise or a hare when decluttering your house? In this podcast 151, we are going to discuss the pros and cons of each.

[00:00:10] So in today's podcast, we are asking you the question, are you a tortoise or a hare? 

[00:00:18] Lesley: Okay, Ingrid, coming right back at you. Are you a tortoise or a hare? Come clean. 

[00:00:23] Ingrid: Well, it, this preparation for this podcast has made me wonder, Lesley, but I think I'm a little bit of a combination of both. I can declutter quite quickly if I need to get something done, but on other things, I take my time and I do it methodically and I do it.

[00:00:40] With a lot of kind of good thinking and preparation on what I think that I want to keep and what do I let it go? So I think I'm a combination of both, actually, 

[00:00:50] Lesley: I suppose that's probably a good answer because we're professionals. And so if we were tortoises and we're getting paid by the hour, that would perhaps not be a good thing for our clients.

[00:00:58] If I'm truly honest, so there needs to be a little bit of hair, like. Tendencies within there, but you're absolutely right in that. We need that methodical, slow, thoughtful approach as well to get us there. But there are situations when being a hair is something that has to happen. Um, and we're going to talk first of all about hares.

[00:01:18] Aren't we, Ingrid? Yes. 

[00:01:20] Ingrid: So just to explain a hair does something quickly beginning to the project and to the project. Boom, boom, boom, smart goals, everything ready to go taking off the list. That's what we mean with a hair, right? Yeah. 

[00:01:34] Lesley: And there are some circumstances where you have to be a hair because we are up against a specific deadline.

[00:01:41] So just a couple of examples of that might be. If your house is being sold and you're like, Oh, I've got six weeks and I've got to get this done, or, um, maybe someone's passed away and the house is getting sold and it's in probate and you have to clear the house quickly. So things like that come into play.

[00:01:58] Another time I can think of that might mean that you need to work quickly. Is when you may be, have got a specific amount of time available that you don't normally have available. So you've taken a two week holiday and lockdown is a great example of that. And isolation is a great example of that.

[00:02:14] Whereas a lot of us have had time sort of freed up haven't we? That were like, you know what I'm going to set to, I'm going to spend 10 days or two weeks decluttering my house. So hares work well in those kinds of situations, don't they? When there is an impending deadline or a very finite amount of time.

[00:02:32] Yeah, I'm 

[00:02:33] Ingrid: not thinking as well. I think lots of us have to kind of scramble last year, didn't we, to kind of create a home office all of a sudden because we have to work from home and we all have to kind of juggle things around at home or somebody who is using their spare bedroom as a spare bedroom, but there is a baby on its way and it needs to be turned into a nursery.

[00:02:53] That might be a question then. I've got a certain amount of time. I need to get this done. 

[00:02:59] Lesley: Yeah, let's face it. There are people out there who can be that. I mean, we're professionals, so we know how to do things methodically, efficiently, effectively, and quick at the same time. Um, but we still have to work at the client's pace, don't we?

[00:03:13] So we still need to pace it out because ultimately there is emotional decisions to be made and those can't be rushed. And so that's what this is about. So we can, we still, even though we work. Quickly in terms of logistically and we have efficient processes and that's very much part of the hair tendency.

[00:03:30] We're still very conscious that we have to work at a pace that is suitable. And that's really what we want to talk about, you know, a hair is great. But you have to make sure that you still got full control over what you're doing. Otherwise it can be a little bit disastrous and that's when mistakes are made.

[00:03:46] And then that's when regrets happen. 

[00:03:49] Ingrid: Yeah. And I think you also have to really keep a really good eye on your own energy levels. You know, a lot of people who have clutter kind of go, right, this is the day. I'm going to get this done now. I've cleared the day I'm going to do this project. And then a couple of hours in, they feel so overwhelmed and they forget, forget to have something to drink.

[00:04:09] They forget to have something to eat. They get sidetracked by something else. The energy levels goes down, go down. Because it's important when you do a project that spans over several hours, you kind of divide that energy a little bit over that time. You can't go in on a sprint and then realize you're completely out of steam.

[00:04:29] You've got lots of tracks still to go. 

[00:04:32] Lesley: Yeah, exactly. No, you're absolutely right. It's so important to keep that, to think about your own. Own energy levels and to think about how things typically go for you, because there are a lot of people who are like, yeah, I can do this. I can do this. And then, as you say, you run out of steam and it's so important not to do that, because if you do have a deadline, then you need to perhaps think, you know, I'm only going to do two, three hours a day.

[00:04:52] I'm not going to do seven or eight hours a day. Even you and I, Ingrid, you know. If we work four or five days with clients back to back, it's exhausting and we know what we're doing. It's completely exhausting, very exhausting for the client. So you and I both very rarely do more than one five hour session a week with a client and we do that for good reason because It's emotionally demanding and, and that bit sometimes because so many people focus on the stuff and not the emotional decisions that need to be made to think about it as a practical process rather than emotional process.

[00:05:26] Of course, we can spend five hours a day putting things into bin bags and take and schlepping it off to the charity shop. But we have to factor in the fact that we've got to make decision. Every single thing that we touch in that day has to have an emotional decision made about it. And that's the tough thing, isn't it?

[00:05:44] Yes, 

[00:05:44] Ingrid: and I think that's the thing that people find really tricky to get their head around. I think it's about the stuff, but we know it isn't, don't we? We know it's about all the emotions connected to this stuff and all the, the feelings of regret and guilt and, and all of those things that come into play.

[00:06:01] That's what makes decluttering hard. And yes, there are easier, um, uh, um, areas and rooms in your house to do. And then there's the harder rooms in your house to do. So if maybe you're a hair in some parts of your house, it's maybe because you don't find it so emotionally challenging while other parts, you might think, Oh, how I was doing so well about decluttering.

[00:06:22] I was like steaming ahead. And now I feel like I'm. Come to a grinding halt, but it's maybe because you're now coming up to something that you actually find quite a lot harder to do. 

[00:06:32] Lesley: So we've talked a little about energy levels and pacing yourself. It's so important to pace yourself, but also what we need to talk about is we need to talk a little bit about realism because you and I both know, you know, again, just jumping back to when we weren't one to one with clients and, you know, even though we're working with a client.

[00:06:47] If that client was working on their own, they would also have these expectations. So how many times have you had a call from somebody who says I need to do my whole house and I've got three days. And so, um, I'd like to get it done in three days. And you and I are both like, that's not possible because to work properly through one room.

[00:07:05] Even if it's what we would consider averagely cluttered, whatever that looks like, but you know what I mean by that, even a normal looking with a bit of clutter room was still going to take four or five hours to work through to do it well. And so sometimes it's about realism, about how long this project is going to take.

[00:07:23] So just talking about that. So if we were going to, let's, let's talk about being a hair and let's talk about, right. Okay. I want to get this job done and I want to get it done over. A short period of time. And I know this is really hard to say because every home is different. Every type of clutter is different.

[00:07:41] But what would our advice be about the the sort of minimum time it would take to do a full house. 

[00:07:49] Ingrid: That's A really good question, Lesley, and I agree with you. It really depends on a lot of different things, like especially the amount of clutter that's there. But I would say you probably would need at least between eight and 10 weeks or something like that.

[00:08:09] It's, it's, you can't do it in days. That's, that's for 

[00:08:13] Lesley: sure. That's for sure. Yeah. Because we've got to think about all those things. Haven't we got to think about pacing ourselves? We've got to think about doing effectively, efficiently. And of course, some of the things that we. spoke about at the beginning, you know, an impending house sale, all those means that we have to kind of firefight a little bit and do it in a non perfect way.

[00:08:31] We have to do the best we can. So what we're talking about when we're talking about decluttering is we're trying to talk about doing it in a very thorough way. So perhaps if you need to do something and you know, a lot of people will be sitting here saying. But I've not got like three months to do that.

[00:08:48] I've only got two weeks and I've got to be out. So we're saying, do what you need to do within those two weeks, do what you can, but know that it's not going to be properly done because to do it properly and to start changing those mindsets and changing those habits takes longer. And that's what we're talking about.

[00:09:04] So it's not about filling a bin bag of stuff and taking it to the charity shop. What we're aiming for with decluttering is we're aiming for a mindset change that takes time. And so. Just then, I think it's useful probably for us to talk about one of the things that we have available for our lovely hares is our, we have our membership where it's much slower and more methodical and people take a little bit more time over the decluttering.

[00:09:28] And we also have our boot camp, which is very much what it says on the team. We already think it's a boot camp. Even us who are kind of hares and work quite fast, we're saying. Okay. If you want to be a hair and you want to go for it in your house and you're like, you know what? I don't want to spend months on this.

[00:09:45] I just want to do it quickly. We have an eight week room by room bootcamp where we tackle one room a week for eight weeks. You don't have to do it in eight weeks, but we released that content over eight weeks. We don't release it all at the same time because we want you to focus very much on one room at a time.

[00:10:01] Don't we, Ingrid? We want you to do that one room well. So yeah, that's our room by room bootcamp.

[00:10:08] Ingrid: 

[00:10:08] So Lesley, before the break, we talked all about hares, but let's now talk about tortoises. 

[00:10:16] Lesley: I know. I think it's fair to say that many people in our communities would probably. Want to be a hare, but find out that they're more of a tortoise.

[00:10:24] I think that's it. And also really berate themselves for being a tortoise. And we actually quite like tortoises, don't we Ingrid? We think tortoise is the way to go for so many people, don't we? So we've talked about it with hares. We've talked about the fact that sometimes you don't have a choice. And we've talked about really pacing yourself through that and doing it in a short amount of time.

[00:10:44] But tortoises are. Uh, where people are much more methodical, slow, this clutter has built up most of the time over years. And so that problem is not going to be fixed overnight. So let's talk about tortoises and why they feel bad about being a tortoise. 

[00:11:04] Ingrid: I think because they feel judged, maybe that they're being, that they're slow and they think that other people see them, that they're being slow and That makes them feel bad.

[00:11:17] But I think actually, as a tortoise, you have more time to think things through properly to take the right amount of action and feel happy with the decisions that you're making. But I think they feel judged mostly by other people. And that makes them judge myself. Why am I so slow? Why can't I do this quick?

[00:11:37] Why do I find it so hard? Well, everybody says decluttering isn't hard, but I'm, I'm finding it hard. So they berate themselves on that. 

[00:11:45] Lesley: Yeah. And I think there's a kind of self judgment that comes from things like social media. You know, social media is awash with people doing five minute declutters and doing this amazing job and making these transformations.

[00:11:55] And then we look at that and think, well, that's what I want. And why can I not have that? Do I mean? Cause that's what. Social media is telling us in the same way that it's telling us that people are super thin who are using filters and all of those many things that happen in social media, which is a great place and a very positive place to be sometimes, but it can also be a difficult place to be.

[00:12:13] If you're feeling as if you're not kind of. stepping up to the plate and doing what you need to do. So social media doesn't help sometimes because we want to be that so badly and we can't be. Um, but what we're saying is don't worry about that. This is all about you taking things at your pace. This journey is your journey.

[00:12:31] It's not somebody else's journey. You're not going to be able to get what somebody else has got in their house. You need to go down your own pathway in your own time. And that's the most important thing. Now we spoke already. When we were talking about has about levels of energy and levels of energy is going to play a huge part in being a tortoise, isn't it, Ingrid?

[00:12:53] Ingrid: Yes, I think so. I think, um, some people maybe consider themselves a tortoise because they struggle with their levels of energy. They, they maybe have health problems or they might have a lot of fatigue going on, or they've never really realized like when I'm at my best during the day, what am I more. Um, difficult points in the day.

[00:13:13] When do I feel tired? And when you start to think about those things, they can kind of go, okay, I need to work with myself instead of against myself. And I think that's really important. 

[00:13:26] Lesley: Yeah, you're so right. And, and even if it's not something like energy, like fibromyalgia or ME or the many, many things that zap our energy, sometimes our minds work against us as well, don't they?

[00:13:36] And we have all good intentions to get up and do something one day. But you feel a little bit depressed and not on top of the world when you get up in the morning, and that's just not going to happen. And you need to realize that, do you know what, let's park this for today and let's come back tomorrow when I'm feeling better about this.

[00:13:53] And so not quite as simple as that. I know there was so much complexity involved in that, but I think this is, this is just as Ingrid very rightly says. This is about working with yourself rather than against yourself, because if you try and do this on a day when you're not feeling strong and energetic, this is not going to work.

[00:14:10] And you're going to struggle and effectively not fail because we don't like to use the word fail, but struggle to get to your goals then. Yeah. Yeah. And 

[00:14:19] Ingrid: when you mentioned social media, Lesley, I, what I was thinking as well. Is that social media can be a great way to be inspired, but it can also be a way of you not feeling that you can ever reach that.

[00:14:35] So instead of then it being a positive thing that you think, Oh, that looks great. Oh, I'm feeling inspired to do something. You think, well, I can never get there. Why am I looking at all these pictures? My house is never going to look like that. I'm never going to achieve that minimalistic look, but we're all about that.

[00:14:50] People are on their own journeys, aren't 

[00:14:53] Lesley: they? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. It's interesting, actually, because we have a bit of a love hate relationship with before and after pictures, don't we? And, you know, quite often when you'll see before and afters on our feed, they will be of kind of half what a lot of people would consider to be still a cluttered room, but we're like, that's huge progress for that person.

[00:15:11] And that's what we want to get across is look at that and look at how far that person's come. They're not there yet. They might not be there for another year or two years or three years. But look how far they've come. And so that's why it's all about towards a tortoise. We'll get there in the end.

[00:15:26] Exactly. We all know the kind of tortoise and hare story and a tortoise will get there in the end on their, you know, in their own way and on their own path and in their own time. And that's the important thing. It's so, so important to break things down into manageable chunks, Ingrid, isn't it? Because I think for some people, you might wake up and think, you know, I want to declutter my spare bedroom today.

[00:15:48] And we, we both know, but that might not be possible. And it might be better for you to say, I'm going to do that bedside table draw today, for example. And then if I feel like, feel like I've still got energy in me, I'm going to move on to the second bedside draw. And that's all about. Going through the same cycle with every single decluttering project you do, however small.

[00:16:08] And for that, you're going to need our cycle of success. Um, anybody who is not familiar with the cycle of success, it is available as a podcast and a download. So you'll be able to print that off and use it every time you do a decluttering project. The details of that are at. Declutterhub. com forward slash one five one.

[00:16:27] That's the show notes for this episode. And we will include a link to the cycle of success podcast and the cycle of success download. 

[00:16:37] Ingrid: Yes. I think that's really important, Lesley, because we want both tortoises and hares. To celebrate their wins, don't we? We want them to feel accomplished. We wanted to go.

[00:16:49] Yeah, I did that. This is great. And just because you're a tortoise and you might be a bit slower getting that it doesn't mean you still can't celebrate the wins. And I think we're, we're so conditioned now to go. Yeah, no, I've done that, but No, no, no. Celebrate the win, take the win and go, yes, I did that.

[00:17:07] And it sounds, I know people are like, but that's, that's crazy. If I say to myself, well done to myself, and I'm like, no, it's good. It's good because you need to feel that positivity and go, I did, this is a great job. I did that right. Let me move on to the next one and see if I can do it. You know, a great job there as well.

[00:17:27] And I think then you kind of get spread that positivity around you, which is so important in decluttering. 

[00:17:33] Lesley: Definitely. And the last stage on that cycle of success is indeed enjoy. And that's what this is all about, isn't it? Yeah. So have we concluded that it's okay to be a tortoise and it's okay to be a hare?

[00:17:44] You have to go on your own journey and do it in your own way. Um, so hopefully we've given you some hints and tips along the way about how best to work if you're a hare and how best to work if you're a tortoise and that's probably us done for this podcast. Isn't it Ingrid? 

[00:17:59] Ingrid: Yeah, definitely. I think we can conclude speed does matter.

[00:18:03] We all get there in the end. And I mean, we notice when we drive in our car, you see the people, if we just commit to the speed limit and other people race past us, in the end, we're all waiting for the same red light, aren't we? And I'm like, Ha! You might have a ticket for speeding, but I got there in the end as well.

[00:18:21] It's not about the speed, it's about the journey and how you get there. So we hope you're feeling inspired. So that is this about this week's podcast. So what are we talking about next week, Lesley? Yeah, 

[00:18:33] Lesley: next week it's back to school organising that we're talking about. So lots of kids all around the world are going back to school next week.

[00:18:41] And so we want to talk about some of the things that you can do to take the stress out of those super stressful mornings. That's what we're talking about. Yes. 

[00:18:50] Ingrid: So thanks for being here and we'll see you next week.
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