A photo of Tyler Moore AKA Tidy Dad smiling into camera
Episode 349 – Tidy up your life with guest Tidy Dad

In this podcast it’s time for an alternative perspective. Let’s hear it for all the tidy men out there, including Tyler Moore AKA Tidy Dad. He shares how he started his tidying journey and how being tidy has helped him in other areas of his home and life as well. We chat about how crucial decluttering and organising has been while tidying up and how his family has embraced this process.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
In today's podcast, it's time for an alternative perspective. Let's hear it for all the tidy men out there. Today, we are so delighted to welcome Tyler Moore, aka tidy dad. He is going to share how we started his tidying journey and how him being tidy has helped him in other areas of his home and his life as well. We will chat about how crucial decluttering and organizing has been while tidying up and how his family has embraced this process.

00:41
You're listening to the declutter hub podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here's your host, Ingrid Jansen. You

01:03
Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find the fun factor in the serious business of decluttering, and if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast. It all takes place in our free Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm and supportive community. Go to declutterhub.com, forward slash group to find out more. Well, thank you so much, Tyler, for being here today. I'm really, really delighted. And like I said to you already, it feels like I know you because I've listened to your audio book, and then we think that we know people, but we've never met before. I don't know who you are, but I'm delighted you're here on the podcast. I've done a lot of research. Yes, no. Thanks for having me and tidy dads, we do exist.

02:05
There are some men in this space, but I don't know. I like to as tidy dad. Just show all people that you know things are possible regardless of the square footage that you live in. That I do think that it isn't just the responsibility of women within the home. I don't think that it's just the responsibility of men, but I really do have a family approach to the tiding that we've taken on, because we all live in our space, and so we all need to learn how to maintain that space. I I am, I am team Tyler, let me tell you, and I think it's really important to teach

02:42
children as well to be involved. And I always kind of say the famous quote, This is not a hotel. We all have to do something. And from the moment, they actually could help out, slowly but surely, over time, I've shown them thought them, shared the load with them, given them chores, because I think it's really important that it's not not all on the adults in the home to contribute, and of course, you need to give them age appropriate chores. But yeah, I love this team approach. I think it's super important. Yeah, it's funny, because there was this new article that came out, which was basically about success rates of adults who, as children, had to complete chores at home, and it was just talking about the fundamentals related to work and care and respect and responsibility. And I get asked often, you know, the counter side to this is people are like, well, you're just taking your children's childhood from them by having them do all of these chores. And I was like, I'm sorry, but when I was growing up, I had to fold laundry, I had to learn how to wipe down the table, I had to learn how to put my things away. And I feel like, you know, I'm enhancing their childhood, because I think that kids get a sense of teamwork and also accomplishment. But also, there is the, you know, the practical reality of there are times when we have to do things that we don't really want to do. Like, if I were able to choose of all the things in the world, do I really want to wash the dishes? Do I really want to fold all the clothes? No, but, like, it's a normal part of life. And so we try, in an age appropriate way, to teach our girls and then hopefully make the load that we all carry just a little bit less heavy. Yeah, I completely agree. And of course, let's be realistic as well, they are going to leave the nest at some point. They have to be able to take care of themselves. And when I went off to university, I did not know hi to iron, but I knew how to fold close. I knew and I learned how to, you know, iron, but I could cook a little bit. I could clean, I could do all the things, and you figure things out along the way, but I had a good solid foundation of what I could build upon, and that's what I want to teach my children as well. And I think that I.

05:00
It's like, if I could write another book, I would write this book on this concept of with itness, which is this idea of, when you see something that needs to be done, have the with itness to just do it. I mean, I'm a teacher. By day, I'm spend my day with 10 year olds. And as happens every single day, there's the water bottle that spills. There's the things that fall on the floor. And it is so interesting, the kids who say, Mr. Moore, let me clean that up, versus the kids who say, well, it wasn't mine. I didn't do it. It's not my responsibility. And it's so wild that from a young age, you can develop just those habits. And with it ness is that idea of when you see something, just deal with it, especially if it's a quick task. And I do feel like those lessons start early and at home, yeah, oh, I love it. I love it. And just so, you know, I love cleaning as well. So it's so nice to to have. I mean, I, I actually would. I wasn't a trained hotelier. I specialized in hotel cleaning, so I love cleaning too. So I loved a lot of things in your in your book as well. So, but of course, let's kind of go back a little bit. How did you become tidy, dad? Because there's a whole story behind it. And I would love for you to share some more. I definitely want you to touch upon the whole bedroom swap, because that's where it all started, didn't I know it happens. What happens? I know so it's like the tidy dad origin story sort of starts with messy dad that at first. And when I talk about messy dad, you know, we had two kids under the age of two. We were living in a small apartment in New York City, as many people do when we upsize the number of children in our home, I had also upsized my professional responsibilities. So I decided that when my first daughter was just a few months old that that was a wonderful time to take a promotion at school, which meant that I moved into an administrative role, which meant that I worked on the summers, and I worked in the evenings, and I needed to work on weekends. And as you know, with decluttering, when one area of your life feels completely out of balance, it then impacts all of the others, and you can't upsize everything. You can't upsize your career, plus the number of people living in your home, and think that you're going to be able to manage all of the other aspects of life. And so

07:26
I decided, you know, as I was having a mental health sort of crisis, that I needed to step back and I needed to take leave from my job. Luckily, I was able to, because my youngest daughter at the time was still less than one, and in the state where we live in the US, we have parental leave. So I took leave and decided two days in that that was the perfect time to swap bedrooms with our daughters. That I thought if we give them the bigger bedroom and we take the smaller bedroom, that will just solve everything. And so my wife was like, you know, I think that that's a great idea, but I don't think you need to do it today. And I just sat and stood for a few hours, waited for her to leave, and then I thought, let me just show her, because if I could show her what a great idea this is, she will truly believe it. But what resulted was sort of imploding both rooms, because, as you know, you can't unload all the closets and the cupboards, and you can't just disassemble furniture by yourself and move it from one room to the next when there haven't been a lot of systems in place to keep things tidy. I mean, we were on paper, those tidy people, where you just stuff everything behind the closet doors, and you don't want anybody to open it up and see, but when someone walks in, they're like, Wow, this is such a beautiful space. And there are many people who have those tendencies. That was us, and it was fine until I imploded the bedroom, and so then as tidy dad. I mean, a year later, I wanted to start sharing what were some of the things that we had done in our small apartment in order to make life sustainable. Marie Kondo had come out with her new show all the parenting. You know, sort of boards in our in New York City were buzzing, where people were like, This sounds like a good idea, but I don't know that it's actually realistic with kids. And I feel like that with kids always is sort of the reason why people say, I mean, first of all, my children are walking tornadoes also. So I get the reality of just living in a small space with kids, but declutter plus kids becomes this huge, catastrophic, in some ways, tornado that just causes people to question everything. Yeah. So I started sharing, and as tiny Dad, it sort of took off from there. Yeah. Honestly, I.

10:00
Into your your audio book, and it just everything that you mentioned. I could, I could see it kind of happening, because, of course, Leslie and I are both professional organizers for Since 2011 so we've been in people's houses. I could exactly see what you meant when it looks tidy. But it wasn't because we've been in house like that, that I'm thinking the first instance, why am I here? And then you open any cupboard and you're like, everything is stuffed in, Packed to the Rafters. You can't find a thing. It all looks stydy, but it isn't. And how are you going to sort it all through? And I think for you, that moment came and you spend months untangling this, didn't you? It took months to sort to do, actually, the bedroom swap in the end, yes, it did, because, you know, it was a deeply emotional process. Because, as you know, with the clients that you go through, you go through a range of emotions. At first, there's this, like, joyful euphoria that you're like, I am going to tackle all of this and look at how great it's going to be. But then there's the practical reality of, oh my goodness, what is all of this stuff? Then there's the emotional weight that you feel of embarrassment, sometimes regret. There's the blame game that starts, where between my wife and I, at first, it was like, who's responsible for this? You can even look at your children sometimes, and you can feel resentment towards them, because there's this feeling of all the stuff that comes and so I do feel like I had to really sit with that emotional weight, and that's what took the longest time that as each project unfolded, we learned a little bit about ourselves. I honed my decision making ability. I thought about, what are these bigger questions of, what do I want from life? And it's silly because decluttering is it can feel silly because you're talking about stuff, but there's so many, so many emotions involved. Yeah, yeah. And absolutely true, because it's never about the item itself, isn't it? It's exactly what you're saying. It's about

12:17
the guilt you feel. Why if I spend money on this? Why am I hanging on to this? It was for my friend who gave it to me, and I can't let it go. And she gave it to me with the best of intentions, so it's a hand me down, or it's mainly a lot of times it is money. I've why if I bought this, I haven't even worn it. The tag still on. I've wasted all this money while we're struggling to to maybe pay some of the bills. And it's all of it together. And when you start to unravel that, that that that mess, it all comes up in in different kind of fluctuations. And it's that's why the cluttering, and I completely it's not something that can be done overnight. It takes time. You need to sit with with some of these feelings, with some of these emotions, and try to get clarity on it. I agree. And you know, sometimes the easier route is to feel like, well, let's just trade in this smaller space, and let's move to something bigger. Yeah, like, you know, if I had a basement, if I had an attic, if I had more bathrooms if I had a larger kitchen, then people say I wouldn't necessarily have this problem. But as you know from working with people,

13:30
you go into that larger space, and if you don't sort of get at the root cause of why all of these things are coming in, that new space just becomes just as decluttered as the smaller space once was, and then you feel like you're even more overwhelmed, because now you have this bigger space with even more stuff, but you haven't gotten at the root cause. And so I knew that we had sort of achieved that level of tidy when, you know, people could start to question, well, why don't you want to move to a bigger apartment? Why don't you want multiple bathrooms? Don't you think that your kids should each have their own individual rooms? Don't you want more closet space? And I could confidently say, no, what we have right now is just enough, like we have just enough space, I've sort of set up these systems to maintain things, but power comes from being able to name to others. What we have is okay right now. I don't need to feel this pursuit of more and more and more. And that is what has become freeing, and is still one of the lasting impacts of that epic sort of decluttering, that epic like great bedroom switch is this feeling of between my wife and I do we have a shared definition of what is just enough, and how do we now work together to keep that definition in check with how we're living our life?

15:00
In our space? Yeah, yeah. And I think it's really because you live in a two bedroom apartment in New York City with a kitchen, a living room, two bedrooms, one bathroom, three kids. You know, it's not like there's one kid, and you think, okay, but you've got three in a triple bunk bed. And for now, it works for you. And

15:24
you know you you're never gonna say, I'm never gonna move. You know, that's not what it's about. How do I make it work for me at the moment, and what makes us happy and when is enough enough? And you know, when I went back to teaching, which was the other part of the story was taking that demotion and saying, I no longer want to be in this admin role. Can I move back to teaching? And what that did was it opened up summers, and it opened up possibilities with our family, and we bought several years ago, a cottage in Pennsylvania, which is just a couple hours from where we live in New York City. It is still small by everyone's standards, even the realtor that showed it to us, he was like, Why do you want to buy this little tiny house? And I'm like, you've got to understand that this is larger than our current apartment. But for us, it's also, I don't know, it's the metaphorical space that it isn't just square footage that gives you space. There are times where you make decisions that give you mental and emotional space and that clarity. And so for us, you know, we're in the apartment 10 months out of the year, when the school year is over, we sort of pack up and we go to our place in Pennsylvania for the summer. And there's something beautiful about that rhythm that did come from that again, that decluttering journey that happened. And our definition of life right now isn't the same for everyone, but that is okay, and we have the freedom to make some of those choices. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I love it. Now, of course, the question that everybody's going to ask me is like, you are called tidy dad. So are you and the family. Is everything always tidy? Because that's the question I get all the time as a professional organizer, right? Your house must be pristine at all times, so I'm gonna throw it out there. Yeah, so breaking news Ingrid, yes, both of us live perfect in perfectly tidy homes and like, like, life is perfect. We'll just, we'll just end it there, because, yeah, it's true.

17:31
No, I live with three children, my wife myself, and the goal isn't always tidied, but easily tidied. It's that idea of when we use something, do people in the home know where to put it back so often there is one person that bears the responsibility of knowing, like the organizational blueprint for the entire house, and it sounds like, Hey Mom, where are the glue sticks? Hey hon, where is that like mixer that we use, you know, to cook, um, do you know where my extra pair of shoes are? Where are my rain boots? All of those are questions that can be fielded by one person. And so for us, that goal of easily tidied is that the people in the home understand where things go and they understand the systems. Now, obviously, I live with children, and so there are age appropriate ways to, sort of, you know, relay this information to them. But our girls are responsible for their wardrobes, for their clothes. They fold their things, they put them away, they understand where their shoes are. And I feel like at the end of the night, when we're able to do that, like reset, that's where we do feel like we live in a tidy space. But again, the goal isn't always tidied, but easily tidied, because the goal of always tidied is just not realistic. It's just not fully possible, because Home is where you live life. I

19:01
can't agree with you more because people say, Ingrid, you are a professional organizer. Your house is tidy, not always, but overall, tidy. Can you not copy your house in my house? And I always say, No, I can't, because you are in your house, with your rooms, with your family, with your things. We need to make it work for you. And within our membership, we also we talk a lot about, think about where the right place is. And, you know, a place for everything, everything in its place. Of course, rings a bell, but people say to me, but I don't understand what that means. And it's like, where would you look for something? What would make sense for you? And it doesn't have to be in the perfect basket. Yet, you can use a temporary shoebox. If you've got one in the bottom of your wardrobe that's empty, you can but put stuff. Start putting stuff into place that makes sense.

20:00
To you and where you would look for it. And of course, then we help with you know, you probably want to put your stationery together, and you want to probably put your wrapping paper and your gift cards and your envelopes together, because then it starts to make sense. Aha, I'm looking for this item. I'm going to go to that cupboard. But how you then you don't have to perfectly organized in in baskets. In the beginning, it's about the decluttering first, then it's about determining the place, then it's about or categorizing and organizing it, and the last step is buying the containers that work. But of course, people who have clutter, what do they want to do? They want to buy containers, because they think if I buy containers, I'm going to be organized while we know it's about having less stuff. And that's what you found out with the big bedroom swap at the start of this whole journey that you're on. We have too much stuff, and we can't find things anymore. We do, and it's when, I mean, if you could look at most Americans, garages and basements and even the stores, I mean, similar in the UK. I mean, we have stores that are just devoted to containers and bins, and everyone is always excited to go and buy that latest fancy bin that's going to solve all their problems. But as we know, when you go straight to the plan without dealing with the stuff, it's not going to work. And again, that's when you know there are applications to that beyond just the physical stuff in your home. So often we're confronted with a problem in life or a situation and or even if we're talking with a friend, and when you're trying to just get empathy from your friend, and they're immediately like, Oh, let me tell you what to do. You just need to do A, B and C, and it's going to be so much better. And you're like, No, I just wanted you to listen to me that is often what needs to happen with decluttering, that it's like that internal listening is the reckoning with the emotions behind it, and sitting with the stuff and looking around and assessing what you want to keep versus what you want to move out. Because if you go straight to the plan, it's not it's not going to work. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Wow. I have a lot more that I want to talk to you. Let's go for a quick break, and we'll come back after because I really want to talk about sir thrival when we come back. So see you after the break. Hi everyone. Welcome back. We are chatting with Tyler Moore, aka tidy dad, and it's been a fascinating conversation so far. And before the break, I said, I really, really want to talk about sir thrival, because I heard that

22:51
term and terminology a lot of your audio book, and I want to know more. So what is her thrival? Tyler, yeah, so it is, I think that it's the mash up between surviving and thriving. It's those moments of time where you feel like your emotional and mental and physical capacity can sometimes outweigh the demands that are placed on you, but you also recognize that it's one of those seasons where there is beauty to be found. An example is like when you welcome home a new baby, that there is that complete, utter exhaustion and overwhelm, while also just being so grateful for, you know, the blessing of a child. It could be, as I talk about in the book My mom, she had this season where she was helping her parents move out of their home into an assisted living facility. It was a time where she was able to spend a lot of time with her parents, helping them navigate that last big move mentally and emotionally taxing, but yet, she was able to have these moments of connection and love with her parents that she hadn't had for years. And so I do feel like there are times when sort of what we feel like we can handle is outstripped, sometimes by the practical realities of life, but there are ways to just sort of stop and center yourself and embrace that season. One of the strategies I talk about in the book is this idea of like Joy plotting, which is, how do you just have these small, anticipatory moments of joy in your week? I'm not talking about the next huge vacation, which is always wonderful to look forward to, but it's looking at the calendar and saying, oh, it's going to be sunny on Wednesday, oh Thursday, I don't have anything on my calendar, and I think I can go for a walk in the park. I just went to the store and bought that coffee that I love, and I'm going to treat myself this week by having that like coffee at home in the morning. We talked about a little bit, but like, I always drink well before we record it, I always drink with my.

25:00
Queen Elizabeth mug every morning, because I always one. Had just a love and respect for the queen, but it brings me joy every morning, when I pick it up right next to my sugar, I have a little queen and Corgi salt and pepper shaker, and seeing that little Corgi just gives me, I don't know a moment of joy in the morning, and I think that with decluttering, you know, when you find those items that bring you a lot of joy, yeah, put them out in your home and actually see them like our most precious sentimental items. They shouldn't be stored away in a box. They should be stored throughout in our home, where, when we walk past it, those memories are triggered, and we think about the people that we love, the moments that we experienced. And so in a small little way, because I always get questions as an American about my Queen Elizabeth mug, but I'm like, it is just something that brings so much joy to me, and even though it has a little chip in the side, I will be drink. I will piece together this mug forever because of what it represents. And it's silly, but it means something to me. And so even in the busyness of my week, having something that brings joy has just been really powerful. I know it's so funny that you say that, because when the kids were little, we went to the Isle of Wight, which is kind of a nostalgic holiday here in the UK. And we went to Osborne house, which Queen Victoria used to holiday at back in the 1900s or something. And I love that day trip. I love that holiday. And I bought a mug as well, like a night it was a porcelain one. It's like, it was, like, the perfect mug for me. And a couple of months ago it broke, yeah, yeah, it dropped on the stone floor in my kitchen. And I was, like, devastated. So my husband went on a mission on eBay to oh my goodness, and he found a similar mug, but not with Osborne house on it. Now, Fluke had it. It broke as well, and he again searched Eber, and he found the same Osborne house. Oh my goodness. And it may make me insanely happy, and it's like, it's never about the quality of stuff, is it of the quantity of stuff. It's about the quality of stuff. It's about that one plate for my grandmother that I use all the time. It's the the nice wine glasses that my mom didn't use anymore when she downsized, that I now use when I'm drinking a glass of wine on a Friday. It's the the couple of pictures that make complete joy. And you're doing the same with your children, don't you? They have a joy shelf in their wardrobe. They do. They have little you know, most of their things are shared that it's like they have the little shared playroom. Obviously, they're stacked triple high, but they have shelves in each of their wardrobes that are sort of off limits for my wife and I. It's about it's something that we call choice within boundaries that we have set the boundary on their shelf, but they love going in and like rearranging and setting up the little things that just bring joy. And you know, when I open it up, it looks like a collection of erasers, hair ties, you know, a few like pieces of jewelry, drawings that they've had pictures, but those things trigger memories for them, yeah, and they don't need this vast these vast bedrooms with all of this stuff, because, as you also know, when everything is sentimental, then nothing Is sentimental. And I love you know, talking about your book, that there is that hoarder, not the hoarder tendency, but the declutterer, that there's that tendency of where you just have all of these sentimental things, and it's like you can't treat everything as so special that you can never get rid of it, or else, nothing is really special. You have to develop a criteria for yourself on what stays versus what goes. And so for us, that's been powerful, and it's something that we have to reinforce with other people all the time. My Grandma, you know, she's in her mid 90s. She's in the process of, there's another book, The Swedish art of death cleaning, which sounds morbid, but I actually thought it was a beautiful book. This idea of giving things away before you've actually sort of passed away. It's like, you giving up things. But I've also had to say even to my dad that he's like, you know, do you want more plates? Do you want more lamps? Do you want more furniture? And I've said, No, I have what I want from grandma. The first time she said, Why don't you walk through the house and choose something? I have this lamp that it is yellow it is it's the weirdest looking lamp ever. It.

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This, like old pottery. It has like little dragons on it. But I was there with her when she so wanted that lamp, and she was dickering with the person, trying to get them to come down the percentage so that she would buy it. And I remember that fight back and forth with the owner. And every time I see that lamp, I think of that moment. So why do I need these other things that don't trigger the same memories for me? And so I think being able to name that to other people again, that goes back to that concept of just enough, but it's powerful. And he started to say, I get it. I get it because I don't think that my grandma amassed all of her antiques and furniture and plates for it to then become a burden, yeah, to her grandchildren or to her children, that's not why she accumulated the things that she did. No, I agree. My mother downsized in COVID. So from our family home, she went to an apartment, and I believe I know everything about decluttering and organizing because of her. So she she was like my she's my shining example, and she did it so well. And of course, she had help getting this stuff out, but she really edited it herself. She's now super happy in her apartment. Thankfully, she could do this while she was still, you know, mentally, physically, emotionally, able to do it. And now she's in the apartment. She's 83 just turned 83 A little while back, and she's now going through all of her photographs, and kind of downsizing that and kind of making she's like, you don't want the the church organs from a church in Germany, you know, but I do want to have that lovely picture that she has with my dad, right? And I think it's really we I think people are because there's so much choice everywhere now, I think it's so hard to make choices, and that's what if the cluttering is all about, isn't it? It is, and that's why one of the strategies that we've adopted is this idea of the decluttering calendar. Because decluttering isn't a one and done process. It's not like you complete this full decluttering marathon and then suddenly, five years 10 years later, you don't have to do it anymore. The idea with the calendar is that there is this sort of cyclical nature to the year, and when you can align category ways that you declutter with sort of the time of year that helps you then not only get things out, but also make space for the new things that need to come in, while also getting it to the hands of people that may be able to use it or need it, and so, for example, like as we're going into spring right now, we're looking at, you know, our summer items. We're looking at swimwear, we're looking at our beach items. We're looking at the gear that we take to the park. We're doing an assessment of toiletries. And we're seeing is the sunscreen expired? Because, yes, if you've had that sunscreen for five years, chances are it's expired. You know, there are things, there are new things that you always need to bring in, but that means that there are also things that need to go out. And so in some ways, having that decluttering calendar is freeing, because we know, okay, this month, these are the three big categories that we're going to look at, because doing a huge overhaul is not really realistic for most people. And so when you can start with those smaller categories while also then making a plan for getting it out, I feel like there's so much more success. Yeah, I think when, when you were talking about the decollete calendar, I was like, Yes, I do this too. I just because, for me, it's so normal, like in January, I always look at paperwork. I don't know why, because maybe it's dark. There's not, you can't really go outside because it's too cold. I mean, you can go outside, obviously, if you dress warmly. But there's just, I don't know, January is my paperwork month, when I always kind of thin out all the paperwork. In spring, I look at my clothes, and in the autumn, I look at my clothes again that sift through kind of September time, start of the winter, how is it looking? Have I got everything? And I agree with you, July and December, take take a month off, you know, take a month off and focus on, you know, going on holiday or celebrating the holiday season in December. But it comes back all the time, and it's not about these big weekends of decluttering. It's more like, do an hour here, do an hour there. Do 20 minutes here, grab that cupboard after dinner, do that one drawer, and that's how you build up your decluttering muscle. Over time and over time, more and more things start to find their place, and it gets easier to do all the habits, right? So

34:55
I love that. I love that decluttering calendar, and also the breaks in it. I think it's.

35:00
Absolutely true. It's important. And I think that, you know, oftentimes we try to overhaul everything at once, or we try to overhaul categories where we have to negotiate with other people. And I feel like what's nice about the decluttering calendar is that you can individually think about your own things like you were talking about now that it's getting into spring, taking a look at your spring wardrobe. Yeah, you don't have to talk to other people about your spring wardrobe. You can go in and choose what are the colors that I like to wear, what are the fabrics that I like to wear, what clothes do I not really like and want to move out without needing to negotiate with other people the same with like, my sunglasses, my ball caps, the toiletries that I use. And I think that so often with decluttering, people want to start with the shared stuff, because oftentimes it feels nice to place the blame onto other people, that it's like we need to make more space. We're going to go through all of your stuff. I'm going to sit here, and I'm going to go through it with you to make sure that we now have space, you know, for the other things, but that is really like a non starter, like you've got to start with your stuff, hone your decision making before you begin to take on the more complex categories. Yeah, true.

36:23
Oh my gosh. I can talk for you for ages, but I know we're kind of time is against us, but I do want to talk about, I do we? Do you do? Because I love that so much. Can you tell our listeners what that's all about? Yeah. So I mentioned at the start that I'm currently a teacher. So I've been a teacher for 17 years. I do we? Do you do is one of those classic sort of teaching moves, but it's because it actually works so often with young kids, or if you have live with adults who act like young kids, you may say, go and do X, Y or Z, but you actually haven't taught the skills of what to do. The classic is like my middle daughter right now, one of her chores is wiping the table. Wiping the table after a meal is actually somewhat complex. You can't just wipe the rag across it, and then have all the crumbs fall on the floor. There is that method with your wrist. There's that wrist action where you're like wiping and collecting at the same time. And so the first time we did it, everything ended up on the floor. And that was a classic example of she was not ready for you do. We had to go back to I do, which is Matilda my middle watch me wipe the table. Let me show you what I do. I spray the table. Then I take the rag. Watch how I'm moving it back and forth. I want you to stand here and just watch what I do, to wipe the table. That then goes to the we do, which is okay, tonight, you're going to wipe the table, but I'm going to stand next to you, and can I see that same nice wrist action that you saw me use the night before, which then gradually goes to the you do. We do it with laundry. We do it with tasks around the house, because you can't just expect someone to go from A to Z automatically. It's like, if you live with toddlers, and you say

38:27
it's time to go, and that's the full direction, and then you expect them to get their coat, get their bag, put their shoes on the right feet, like, no, there are too many steps. So I do, we? Do? You do? Can really help? Yeah, I think I see that a lot with children who are like, but my kids are so messy, and I say to them all the time, tidy up your room. And I'm like, Have you ever shown them what that means? And is the room ready for things to be put back in the right place? Because if everything is everywhere, they're going to shove everything everywhere, because you need to create a place for clothes, and you need to create a place, possibly for books. And if there's toys in a bedroom, you need to create a place for toys. And within that, you've got sub categories of this is the drawer for the socks, and this is the drawer for the underwear, and this is where the the books go, and this is where the the Lego or the blocks go. This is where the dolls go. You can't just randomly say, tidy up your room and expect that also to undergo okay. So that means that I need to put my dirty laundry in the hamper. You have to tell them you start with, make your bed, open a window to get some fresh air in, put your dirty clothes, not on the floor, but put them in this hamper. And the thing we're tackling right now, even with that, is like, you have to pull your underwear out of your pants, yeah, like, literally, you don't just take it all off and leave it as one and throw it in the bin. Like there are steps to this, and we're.

40:00
We've talked with our girls about resetting to factory settings. So like, when something is broken, the first thing you do is you try to reset it and get it completely back. And that's what we talk about with our spaces, that like there are rooms in our house that we want reset to factory settings every night. One is the bathroom, the second is the kitchen. The other is the living room. Those are three shared spaces that all five of us use. So those every night we've got to reset it. You know where it's like the dishes are out of the sink, because I have to hand wash every dish. It's like things are up off the floor. Yeah, that the bathroom counter is clear. Those are the boundaries that we set, and are the gun non negotiables. And it's okay for listeners to set boundaries to say, this is one of our house rules, and I need everyone to work together to follow it again. It's not always tidied, but easily tidied and setting those boundaries is really important, yeah, oh, Tyler, we tackled it all, haven't we tackled it all? Not by a long shot. I actually would love to love people, because our listeners gonna go. I want to have a husband like that tiny dad. Can you not come to my house what to do? It's a team effort, isn't it? It is, and it's not a one person's job, and of course, some people have more time, maybe because they are a stay at home mom or stay at home dad or work part time, and they might do a few more chores. But you also have to look at, what are people's strengths, what are the stuff that they're good at as well? Because maybe you're like, okay, one of us is at home, so they need to do all the things, but maybe some of the things, it's just not what they're really good at. So you have to really build on each other and divide smartly and sensibly as well. So it feels like you're all working towards, you know, a tidier, more decluttered home, because we know how wonderful it is to have less mess, less stress, more time, more space. We see all the benefits, don't we? I agree, and you know, it's not to discount the importance of home, but the number of items that you actually have in your closet is very inconsequential compared to the bigger questions that you often have to wrestle with in life. But if you can define for yourself what is just enough in terms of your wardrobe, the number of items that you have, that's when you can do the exact same thing to other categories of life, like your money and your spending habits, the career that you want to have, how much time you want to spend with your kids, what you want to do with friends or family, thinking about holidays that you want to take. There are much bigger life questions, but I do feel like when you can communicate with the people in your home about the stuff that you have, there is power and there is this unity that can come from a relationship or family or friends through the process of actually dealing with your stuff. And so that's why your work, my work, it is so important and it is very emotional, because we've seen what joy can come from life when you are able to get your home in order, which then helps you feel like your life is sort of in order to Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I love it that you use the word terminology resets. Because, of course, our book reset your home is coming out at the end of June, and it's great. It's going to be so good that I feel like it's just the practical guide that people need. As you're even as you broke down, working through room by room, of what do you actually do? What does this actually mean, plus cutting down and breaking through that decluttering jargon I thought was just so smart, because there's so many buzz words out there, and it's like, Okay, what does this actually mean? And how do you cut through the noise? So I'm excited. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much. If people want to read your book, Tyler, let us know. What is it called, and where can we find out more about you? Yeah. So my book is called tidy up your life. It is available in the UK. It's obviously available in the US, but you can get it wherever books are sold. I also have what I call the tidy times, which is on sub stack. So some people may be on sub stack too, but that's more of my writing their checklist there are. There's a tidy tool kit, because so often you read something and then you're like, I want to go a little bit deeper. So that is available too. I'm also on Instagram. I'm tidy. Dad, just put in tidy and dad and I will pop up. There are more tidy dads out there. But right now, I'm sort of the unicorn. So you can find me.

45:00
Wherever you Google tiny dad Tyler. Thank you so much for being here. Listeners, are you going to figure out what is just enough for you? We would love for you to share with us. Has this conversation inspired you? Has this conversation made you think? Are you going to think about the bigger picture, about what just enough means for you in your life, in your family, in your circumstances? Let us know in the comments. Share with us we would love to know. And thank you so much, Tyler, for being here. It's been such a wonderful conversation. I've really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me. You

45:44
thanks so much for listening to the declutter hook podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode and we'll see you next week.
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