A photograph of Carl Honoré standing next to a bookcase
Episode 261 – The power of slow in a fast world with guest Carl Honoré

Our guest today believes the Western world's emphasis on speed erodes health, productivity and quality of life. His message is simple and game-changing: to thrive in a fast world, you have to slow down. So let’s dive into the power of slow in a fast world with Carl Honoré.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
Our guest today believes the Western world's emphasis on speed, erodes health, productivity and quality of life. His message is simple and game changing. To thrive in a fast world, you have to slow down. So let's dive into the power of slow in a fast world with Carl Honoré.

00:30
You're listening to the declutter podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts decluttering and organizing your home. Now here's your host, Ingrid Jansen.

00:52
Hello, and welcome, listeners. I'm Ingrid. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find the fun factor in the serious business of decluttering. And if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast, it all takes place in our free Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm and supportive community. Go to declutter hub.com. Forward slash group to find out more. Well, hello, Carl, welcome to the declutter hub podcast, I'm absolutely thrilled that you are here as our guest today. Thank you very much. I'm thrilled and honored to be here. Looking forward to chatting, I've come clean already that I'm a little bit nervous, because I am so in awe of everything that you do. And it's been so long since we've seen each other it's like, oh, I can't believe I'm gonna curl on the podcast. So if I sound a bit like, it's because I'm just excited about recording this podcast with you, we will find a gentle, easy way where neither of us feels nervous.

02:04
Group is there. Let's get you. You know, thank you for taking time out of your busy diary to have this slow talk with us.

02:14
I've always got time for a slow talk. You know, you make me laugh so much when I approached you to say would you love? Would you like coming on the show? And you replied back immediately. We'd like I would love to and cetera. And I went back. Wow. Thanks for your quick reply. And you said, well, sometimes it's good to be slow. But sometimes it's good to be quick. And I thought that is such a fantastic answer.

02:39
That kind of sums up the whole slow philosophy if you like, right, because I'm not I'm not an extremist of slowness, sometimes faster is better. Exactly. Now we've met, I have both I've been lucky enough to hear you speak twice, back in 2015, and 2016. But you've also been a TED speaker twice. You've written five books. I mean, you are the voice of the slow movement. And you travel all around the world. Your book has been translated in 35 languages. I think you speak four languages, you yourself. I mean, wow, what a resume. It's been quite a ride, actually.

03:18
When I look back to my first book In Praise of Slow coming out in English in 2004, that's 19 years ago now. And I just think, at the time, I just had an idea that I wanted to put out into the world, I had no idea where it would go. The question at the core of that book was, Is it possible to slow down in a fast world? Can we do it? Is there such a thing as a slow movement? And you fast forward two decades? And the answer to that question is a resounding yes. Right? If it's slow movement has just grown very fast, across all walks of life, it's it's kind of thrilling. And also, obviously, personally gratifying. But it's actually more exciting in a bigger picture, because it just means that the more we move towards slowing down, the more we move away from Fast Forward road run or living, the better it is for all of us and the planet. Yeah, absolutely. I definitely want to come back to that and definitely want to come back to productivity and environment as well. But let's go back, if you allow me, let's go back to the beginning a little bit because you I saw you in the TED talk, I said, I think it was in 2005. So you wrote your book in 2004. What made you write the book, what was your moment that you thought? I'm going to write a book about slowness? It was very unusual at the time, particularly for me because I was an always have been a naturally fast person. And at the time, I was working as a foreign correspondent, which is a very highly accelerated profession all about deadlines, and I was just stuck in in turbo mode. And I've realized now looking back over my career that all of my books start with the same spark. The starting point is always a personal existential crisis and it was no different with the first

05:00
Looking praises slow. And the crisis was this that I just back in those days, I found that I could not, I could not slow down even in moments when I clearly should. So when I started reading bedtime stories to my son, I go into his bedroom at the end of the day, and I would be speed reading Snow White. You know, I was just skipping lines, paragraphs hold, I became an expert at what I called the multiple page turn technique where you try to sneak you know, three, four pages back, but it never works, because these confounded kids know the stories back to front. So my son would always catch me out. He'd say, Daddy, why are there only three dwarves?

05:36
What happened at grumpy and this lamentable state of affairs went on for some time until I caught myself flirting with buying a book I'd heard about a book called The One Minute bedtime story. So Snow White in 60 seconds, and I kid you not. I thought, when I heard that, I thought, What a great idea. I need that book. Now Amazon drone delivery, right? But then a second reaction swept over me was like a lightbulb over the head moment. And I thought, Whoa, is it really come to this? Am I Am I really in such a hurry that I'm prepared to fall off my little boy with a soundbite instead of a story at the end of the day. And it was one of those moments of genuine and searing epiphany. It was like an out of body experience. I could see myself from the side in sharp relief. And what I saw there was just it was just ugly, it was unedifying, I realized that I was racing through my life instead of living it. And that, for me was the the inflection point I thought I need to change. But of course, there's a journalist and a writer and someone who thinks about the big picture always, I wanted to burrow down into understanding not only my own addiction to speed with the bigger picture, why we're all hooked on fast, and that was the start of traveling around the world and investigating our whole tangled relationship with time and, and the fruit of that was my first book appraiser slow, which ended up becoming the handbook of what people call the slow movement. And what might you think we're all so addicted to fast? I mean, because we all are, you know, now we can click and it gets delivered hours later. You know, we we love fast. But we I think we all realize that it's bad for us. But why do we love it? Also, I think I think there are a number of reasons. One is that we you can go down deep into our relationship with time itself. You know, when man started measuring time, even way back a couple 1000 years to sundials. Simply having a sundial cause people to have a schedule. And having a schedule causes people to hurry, because as soon as you have a schedule, you have a deadline. And that changes your relationship with time. So obviously, we get into the modern era. And then we have clocks and factories, and that we have, you know, digital clocks blinking on our wrists and in our faces in the corner of our computer screens. And there's this constant pressure to speed up to make the most of time, think of that eternal expression that Benjamin Franklin uttered 250 years ago, time is money, right. And it trips off our tongue today in the early 21st century sounds so modern, because it's come to define how we think about time, not just in the workplace. But in every corner of our lives, we're constantly striving to optimize to squeeze more and more into less and less time. So think of me reading bedtime stories, I'm turning bedtime stories into an exercise in productivity. You see the same thing with people embracing sexual techniques that trigger an orgasm in 30 seconds. It's this kind of crazy obsession with reaching the finish line. And I think it's become a cult, a cult of speed, a cult of busyness, a cult of rushing, that has now infected every corner of our lives. I think of it as a virus. It's like it's the virus of hurry. But it's not just about our relationship with time you touch there on technology, having these gadgets that allow us to do everything at the speed of software are at the flick of a switch, or the swipe of a screen conditions us to expect everything to happen that fast. Once we get into this mode, we're expecting even human beings to move at the speed of an algorithm. So you now with WhatsApp recently offered a new function where you can listen to people's messages on two times three times speed. A lot of people now watch films at two times speed or listen to the puppy. Some people are listening to this podcast at accelerated speed.

09:06
Of course, what that does is it turns us into speed demons, where we are skimming the surface, we are not really experiencing things were just ticking the boxes. And I think that explains a lot of the sense of dissatisfaction there is in the modern world that we're surrounded by such affluence the world is this endless smorgasbord of things to do and experience. And we feel a pressure to, we want to have it all right to use that famous expression from the women's magazines. But having it all is just a recipe for hurting at all. And then I just want to put one more final footnote in here, which is an even deeper driver, I think of his speed culture. And that is that for many of us going fast, being busy, distraction stimulation is a form of denial. It's a way of running away from ourselves. It's a way of avoiding those deeper questions like who am i What is my purpose here? Am I living the right life for me? It's much easier, there's less there's less heavy lifting when you just grapple with the small stuff.

10:00
Like were my keys. I'm late for my 11am. And I think for a lot of people, speed is a way of running away from ourselves. It's interesting, because when you mentioned WhatsApp, I had a little kind of sight path in my brain going on of my daughter, who recently sent me WhatsApp and I did not reply because I was busy doing something else busy. There you go. And she's like, Mum, are you ghosting me? I've seen the two ticks. I've seen the two ticks that you've read my message, but you've not responded. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, are we now actually measuring how quickly I respond to something you asked me that I'm suddenly now ghosting you. I mean, what is this all about? I've been doing other things. You just have to wait until it's your turn.

10:48
And it's like,

10:50
I think the kids do things even quicker than we maybe I don't know, maybe I feel sure. I'm not so sure about that. I think I actually think that's one of the myths of that swirl around this debate is that somehow digital natives are more marinated in instant gratification and speed than the rest of us. And I look at my mum who's in her 80s. And if you don't answer her WhatsApps within the hour, she's sending a follow up, see what's wrong or asking him to do being ghosted? So I think this is something that cuts across all generations at the moment. And it's something that springs from you human nature, and so much of the way these gadgets are put together, I mean, Silicon Valley has hired the best brains in psychology and neuroscience, to make these tools and toys that fill up our world. addictive, right, they are genuinely built to be addictive. Everything down to the color used in the little dots showing you've got a message coming in that ticks. That notifications reminds us all that stuff is there to keep you on that hamster wheel of instant response, instant gratification, instant, instant instant. And it's hard because of that to break free. It's hard is not the same as impossible, though, thankfully. And many, many people are now saying no, you know, I love WhatsApp, my iPhone is great. But there are times to put it aside, there are times to switch it off. There are times to be present in the moment, moving through the world at a human pace, rather than at the rhythm of technology. So you wrote the book, like you said just about two decades ago, you say that the slow movement has grown. But have you then actually seen life slowed down? Or has the awareness of being more slow grown? And are we even faster than we were in 2004? But do you think

12:42
there are several questions in there? I think the short answer is that the keynote, the hallmark of our culture is still one of acceleration. I think that we are faster by and large across the culture. But at the same time, the counter current for slowness has grown exponentially. Certainly the awareness of the damage and the harm, that all of the speed distraction multitasking, stimulation is doing to every aspect of our lives. That awareness now is right up there at very high levels. The next step of course is to go from the awareness to change and that's where we're lagging I say that the slow movement has grown very fast because it has there are now in every pocket of human existence you will find a slow movement whether it's slow food, slow education, slow management, slow leadership, slow travel, slow fashion, slow architecture, you know people bringing the lens of slow to whatever it is they're doing and saying how could I do this better and enjoy it more by slowing down to the right the right pace the right rhythm? So that that's good but we still have we still have a long way to go there's no question but I today looking back feel more confident and more optimistic than I did five years ago not least because I think the pandemic in a funny sort of way was a real Philip for the slow movement it gave it a boost it it supercharged it because what was the pandemic, if not a global workshop and slowness, right? It actually forced all of us to slow down and the pandemic was a nightmare, right? It was funny at the beginning, a lot of people wrote to me, when the lockdowns kicked in, they said, You must be so happy, right? The world is finally slow. And I gotta say that at no point was I ever happy about the pandemic, it's it was a total nightmare and an ordeal for everybody in lots of different ways. But I do think that even the worst crises always have silver linings. And I do think that the pandemic gave a lot of us a taste of what life would be like without FOMO for instance, because you couldn't miss out on anything because nothing was happening it was

14:33
it also gave us something that we have lost the art of reflection. This is a society that is so fast that we only ever indulge in reaction and reflection is so crucial to a life well lived. I mean Socrates talked about the examined life the importance of taking that time to let the mind wander to sit with yourself to to marinate and base yourself in those big questions. That became something that was possible to people because because the world stopped, and it was interesting how

15:00
Many people came out of the pandemic, having finally done some of that metaphysical existential homework, having finally got back in touch with themselves through reflection and slowness and time of tranquility and silence and came to big conclusions. So you see, a lot of people came out of the pandemic and said, You know what, I was living in autopilot. Before I slow down, I realized that fact, now I'm going to make some big seismic changes. So many people that came out of the pandemic saying, Okay, I'm going to change how I work. Let me just change careers. I'm leaving this bad relationship. I'm going to start a family. I'm going to move from the countryside to the city or the city to you know, all of these big tectonic shifts that never would have happened without that slowness. And so it's a reminder to all of us, I think that that slowness is a superpower. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It. It reminds you mentioned the pandemic, it reminded me in the beginning that people said to me, and also less than many other professional organizers, oh, now everybody's got time to clear out their house, nobody's going to need a professional organizer anymore, because everybody's got time. Because of course, for years, everybody used, I'm too busy to sort out my house, maybe as an excuse, maybe as a, well, I have so many other things to do. I can't focus on my house. But of course, now, nobody could go anywhere. And they had the time to clear out their house. And what we saw was almost like a third of people just went decluttering, they were creating piles of stuff in their spare bedroom in their garage. And because they had time to do it all. A third of people were our heroes are crucial people that kept everybody alive, our NHS workers, our police, our five, they didn't have time to do anything, because they were the ones keeping the ship. Exactly keeping the ship afloat. And then was a third of people were like, I have the time now. But actually, I'm so overwhelmed. I don't even know where to start. I don't know what to do. I don't have the skills. I mean, a panic. So it was very interesting to see that. And then we as professional organizers thought, You know what, we still have a role here, we still have an important skill that we could share with people. And Leslie and I, at the time, were in the middle of a 40 days, 40 items challenge. So we said to everybody join us. Let's declutter one item a day. And then the pandemic hits. And we were like, Oh, wow, this is like the worst time in the world to do a challenge where it's so much going on. So we asked and said, Do you guys want to continue because we don't know what either what's gonna happen. And everybody went, you know what, please continue, because actually making us focus on just one thing a day and do something positive, that makes us feel good. It's actually helping us to deal with all the negative stuff out there. And the fact that we see you every day in the Facebook group, or how we did it at the time, makes us happy because you make a smile, and you are so positive, and it gives you a bit of a lightbulb moments. And that was actually the tipping point when we said we have to continue. And

18:12
with this one item a day, which sounds very slow. But actually for a lot of people, it actually gave them the opportunity to do something that they've never done before. And that was to think and to ponder what's important, like that reflection of what do I want in my house? What's important to me? How where do I want to go? What is my aim? So interesting? Well, that's it's hearing you say that, I mean, it reminds me that we're really, ultimately, although we often use different language, we're on the same team. Yeah. Because what's slowing down is in my conception is about clearing out the clutter. Moving away from that tsunami of trivial distractions, and overstimulation, pointless multitasking to focus on what really matters, to get down to the core of who you are, and why you're in this world, and how you want to be in it. And that's that the only way to get there is to slow down. But another way to think about it is to declutter, as you're removing your paring back, you're taking away the things that don't matter. And whenever people talk about my book In Praise of Slow, I often think it could easily have been called in praise of No, right, because so much a part of slowing down is is peeling away the stuff that doesn't matter in order to focus on the stuff that does right. Because as soon as you say no to things that aren't important, what you're actually doing is saying a big yes to the things that are important that really matter. And it reminds me also of a famous quote that I was I was recalling the circumstances which claims came from Warren Buffett, the legendary American investor who once said, The difference between successful people and very successful people, is that very successful people say no to almost everything.

20:00
And in a way that is a beautiful distillation, I think of the SLO creed. And also, if you have a match in a large Venn diagram here, there's a huge overlap with the decluttering work that you do as well, because you're getting to the same place that I'm trying to steer people as well, which is to

20:18
minimize, you know, to get to take the time to think and reflect on what's important. And then let everything else go and give everything you've got to the stuff that really matters. Yeah.

20:29
On that note, let's take a break. And oh, we have more to discuss. Because indeed, I think you're so right, we have so many parallels. So listeners, let's take a quick break. And we'll be right back. Hi, everyone. Welcome back. I'm talking to Carl Hana Ray, who is the best selling author of five books to TED talks about in his original book In Praise of Slow and why slow is so important in a fast world. Now, I was looking at your website curl to prepare for this talk. And I saw this quote or your website that I absolutely love, and use it said a slow does not mean doing everything at a snail's pace. That would be absurd. It means doing everything at the right speed.

21:19
Yeah, wow. That was like a lightbulb moment for me. You know, I just like that is so good. And it's so true. That you don't have to kind of sit in an empty house with nothing your diary to be slow, right? Yeah. It's about finding the balance, isn't it? It is and and the reason people do default, to assuming that slowing down means as you've just said, sitting in an empty house having an empty deck is that there is such a deep and abiding taboo against the very idea of slowness in our culture that slow is a dirty word. It's a four letter word. It's a byword for lazy, stupid, boring, unproductive, roadkill crime, and it's associated things that nobody wants to be to be linked with. And I think this taboo means that even when we yearn to slow down, even when we can feel in our bones, it'd be good for us that we don't do it because we feel ashamed, we feel guilty, we feel afraid, or we just simply lost the habit. And I think also that taboo means that when people say, okay, it'll be good for you to slow down, we think, Oh, no, the only way to slow down is to become the Dalai Lama and meditate five hours. No, that's not what this is about. It's about understanding that speed comes in all different flavors, right? Sometimes, the best thing for the moment is to go fast right there, we all have a turbo mode. And sometimes that's exactly the mode you want to be in. But we also all have a tortoise mode. Sometimes slowness is called for, and it's about finding the right musicians have a lovely expression for this, they talked about the tempo giusto, the correct tempo for each piece of music. And I think that really gets at what this slow revolution is about. It's not about doing everything fast or slow. It's about finding the right speed. For the moment. Ultimately, really, if you drill down even deeper, slow is a mindset, it's quality over quantity, it's being present in the moment, it's doing one thing at a time. Ultimately, it's about doing everything not as fast as possible, but as well as possible. Super simple idea, but one with the power to gain change every single thing you do, and it works in the business community as well. The Economist magazine, put out a report recently looking at pace in the modern workplace. And and they came to a conclusion that is actually a perfect summary of this slow philosophy. The final line of that survey from the economist was something like mastering the clock of business is about choosing when to be fast, which to bid we all know Right? But also when to be slow. When to be flast. When to be so when to be on when to be off when to lean in. Roll is being told to lean in, but also when to lean back. Right? And it's precisely when you when you crack that code, when you learn how to move up and down the scales of tempo moving in and out of different speeds and rhythms and paces. That's when the magic happens in everything you do from the bedroom, to the boardroom. And look that's the Economist magazine telling us to slow down it's not Buddhist monthly or acupuncture weekly, right? It is the in house Bible of the most entrepreneurial ambitious hard charging successful people on the planet. And the economist is coming to the same conclusion that we all are like witches that in a world addicted to speed slowness really is a superpower. Yeah, yeah. And

24:38
we have a lot of people in our world that

24:43
have a lot of stuff. And blessing. I always say you don't have to go from having loads of stuff to nothing. The idea about decluttering and about organizing is not to aim for a minimalist.

25:00
Look, everybody has a different outcome and how they feel happy in their home. And some people still love a very full home that is, you know, abundance and colors and has stuff. But I think what we're, the message that we're trying to get get across is,

25:18
you need to find that quality over that quantity, you need to let go for the surplus items that are clogging up your life, because we want you to be able to read that book to do the arts and crafts that you've bought over the years, but you never have time to do because there's no room in your home to sit down anywhere and do it. We want you to slow down and not work so hard in trying to keep your house going. Because what we know from experience is the more stuff a house has the hard, much harder work it is to keep up with it, to clean it to tidy it to find things to put things away. If all cupboards are overflowing. How can you put your shopping away, then things could lift out, and then it's hard to clean and Hoover and everything gets much harder work. So you're actually eroding the time that you could spend on relaxation or a walk or

26:22
doing that puzzle or watching just a bit of telly and hanging on the sofa and not feeling guilty? That you always have to do something. Yeah. So. And we see the same in diaries as well, you know, when people have less clutter.

26:41
And they start to change their mindset about their stuff. What we see is a change in mindset in how do I spend my time? What time do I invest in friends and family? And does that make me happy? Am I happy? My job? I mean, you mentioned that you're from the pandemic. But we see that when clutter goes down a little bit that comes space to think instead of being weighed down all the time about all of the tasks that need to happen in our lives. When there's less clutter, there's more time to think and more time to go. Do I actually enjoy this? Why am I volunteering at six things? Well, I've only really enjoyed two, but I'm still doing two because I've always done them that way. And I think you're so right. I think slow and decluttering overlap so much we use different terminology. But what we both aim for, is better quality of life, I think. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I'm just sitting here nodding all the way through everything you're saying echoes my whole worldview with just different languages, you know, slightly different angle, and, yeah, and filter. I love what you said there also about how every person will find their own landing strip that it's some people will want to be a bit more minimalist a bit more. And that's very much like slow that what's everybody has their own personal internal metronome, right. So what's fast for me might be slow for you What's perfect for you might be a little bit too fast for me, you know. And so it's really not about keeping up with the Joneses or downloading a schedule from Amazon that's going to suit every because there isn't, there's no universal formula. It's about finding that time and space, which you do through slowing down and decluttering and all those things that we do, and offer to people together to create that will the Virginia Woolf had that lovely expression, the great cathedral space of childhood. And I think of it is that huge space that we have just to let the mind wander to contemplate the big picture to look to the horizon. And that's when we start coming to sensible decisions about how we want to live our lives in the here and now. Right? I loved also what you said there about the one item a day challenge, not making it something that you've got to because this is something you often find was slowing down. People say, Oh man, I saw your TED talk, or I read your book. And I thought I need to slow down. So I signed up for yoga, I ran across the street to do some meditation, I hurried home to cook before course slow food meal, you think well wait a minute, that's kind of not getting the point. Because really, you have to slow down slowly. And I think it's all these changes are a process. And so I love that idea of one item per day. Because not only does that avoid the sense of being overwhelmed and the mistakes we make we try and do everything at once. Yeah, but it also turns it into a process or a journey, rather than obsessing about hitting the destination and so much of the wisdom and the learning and the joy. And the magic comes from the journey itself. The process itself for each day, if it's just picking one item in your house, that can seem on the outside like something not that important, but actually it can trigger a whole avalanche of deeper thinking and new thoughts and new ways of being. Yeah, because you just mentioned it's the journey, not the destination and you actually wrote a book about that again

30:00
fielders book, haven't you? It's haven't I haven't read it. I haven't read slow enough. I've read under pressure. I haven't read the kids book. So is it what's your message in your message in the book is like, you need to look along the way. And not only focus on where you're going is that is that, yes, it's so much you know, the old expression, the things that we lose when we when we don't stop and stare. And so it's a book about stopping and staring and moving through the world, with your eyes open with your five senses lit up, being present, and just thrilling to this extraordinary smorgasbord of experience that the world offers up to us, but that we tend to rush through. And once we slow down and do one thing at a time and take our our time and really

30:47
deliver ourselves fully to the moment, then then the world lights up in every possible shade. And that's it's a children's book. So my first children's, which was a real joy to write, actually, I wrote a during the pandemic. So at a time when I couldn't travel myself, I was able to travel, in my mind on a magic carpet of words and images. And it's just a way for, for me to share the idea of slow through travel, because it's some, obviously I do a lot of talking about slow and I do a lot of traveling. So it's a nice way to bring the two together. And I think aiming at a children also makes good sense, because the earlier we start grappling with these ideas of time and pace and slowness and speed, the better off we're going to be right? It doesn't, it doesn't make sense to wait till you're 39 hovering on the brink of your first breakdown, to start thinking about slowing down, right, we need to start instilling this, this wisdom about the power of slowness as young as possible and starting in school. So I thought, why when I put up put it out there in the form of a children's book. Yeah. It just reminded me that's so funny that you said it. Because it's another parallel of what we what we see in our membership with our members that have younger children. They're like, wow, I'm getting my kids on board, you know, with with some of the daily chores, and one of us, one of them sent us a lovely picture of her. I think her five year old son now helping with recycling, you know, bringing putting it in the bins. But if you teach them young, you teach them the habits of put your plate in the dishwasher help mommy set the table, put your laundry in the laundry basket, they're not on the floor, instead of kind of waiting until they're 14 going, why is your bedroom? Oh, was such a tip. And why didn't you never tidy it up? It's like, well, you've never taught me how to do it, you've just always said tidy up your room. But I don't know what that means. So you have to start young with those habits is all those good habits of being part. And I always, always kind of say to my kids, this is not a hotel, we all have to you know, we all have to do something. This is not a hotel where you can just leave everything and think that somebody else would tidy it up. And I mean, even my hotel room would be tidy. But that's beside the point.

33:02
I want to make a point. And it was so funny. I once traveled, traveled with my friend, Juliet to a conference and she's a professional organizer as well. And she said you could see a clear line in the room. What was Ingrid side? And what was my side Ingrid side was all not Sydney. And my sight that stuff everywhere. She said, We're all different organizers as well, not all of us are intrinsically tidy and decluttered. And it's a skill you can learn. And I so agree with you, you know we we run through life at at such a speed that we have to we don't want to completely break down before we realize that we've gone much too fast for far too long. Yeah. And you do often find that people wake up sometime often in their 30s or four days. Just think well, and then look back and think that was my last 15 years. I mean, that's just that nothing has stuck, passed in a blur. How did I get here? Did I really decide to this path? Is this the route that I wanted to? And really it's because people haven't taken the time earlier on to pause. And also sometimes to sit with discomfort. I think this is another thing. And another reason why we run away from slowness is that slowness can be uncomfortable, right? It can it can cause to bubble up difficult, gnarled, frightening questions. But those are the questions that you have to contend with. If you're going to come up with useful answers or better questions that will help steer you towards a life worthy of the name. The worst thing I think we can do and many of us do it and I certainly was doing it for a while was just to push those questions aside, put them in a box somewhere and put your head down and go full speed ahead because that trickle down, trickle down, get through but what is that really isn't what life is. I mean, at some point you're going to wake up or crash into a brick wall and think whoa, I just said

35:00
sacrificed how many years on the altar of what? Of what really the speed of busyness of prestige of a pension pot of pleasing my parents of what all those things that kind of go into the mix that drive us down? avenues that aren't really

35:16
made for us, right? We find ourselves following other people's scripts when we don't take the time to write our own script. Yeah. And to figure out I think, for ourselves, what is important to us? And what makes us happy? You know, when you when you're on a hamster wheel, it's so easy to just keep going all the time. And not step off. And I think

35:44
I have no, you know, it's

35:47
it's absolutely fascinating. I think when people take more time,

35:56
they actually

35:59
have all these things that are suddenly realized that they've lost out on sometimes, and you can use that as a thing to make you depressed. But it can also, you can also use it as a positive and go Well, actually, I've realized is now I don't want this anymore. How do I move forward? Yeah, I think you can, you can use it as fuel. Yeah, fire yourself into the remaining chapters of your life with completely different spirit, one that says, I'm going to take the time to work out who I am, what I want and how I can make a life that that reflects and honors that. Yeah. Rather than feeling okay. I've squandered however many years, that's just going to bum you out and lead you down a not very happy rabbit hole far better to take that and parlay it into something into something hopeful. Yeah. Many people could do that. I suppose. Actually, my most recent work, actually, my most recent book is paddle book is called boulder. And it's about aging and reframing aging, and thinking about how to make later life sing. And one of the things we do tend to gain in the second half of our lives is that prospective people do start to say, Whoa, what am I doing here? What kind of life do I want to live? And often that happens around the age of 40. across all cultures, and socio economic groups, people begin to wake up and think, Okay, I've been on autopilot, I need to pause, rethink, reboot, change direction, pivot, whatever the phrase is, you want to hang your hat on. But I always feel why wait till you're 43 to do that. Why not have Why don't have those conversations with yourself? In your teens? Right? Even or even younger and start, always at every stage of life, be asking yourself, you know, my living a life that really is right for me? Yeah, a tough question. A scary one. Because you may not be. Yeah, and you have to make difficult decisions. So it's easy to and to see why people think well, I don't want to deal with that question, because it's going to open the door to some pretty unnerving stuff. Yeah. Much better just to leave it in the cupboard. Yeah, but actually, that's a very short term as we're thinking isn't, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's what that's what we see a lot as well as, like, Oh, I've got all this stuff that in my house, and I wish I didn't at the time buy it. And it's like, what, but it is what it is now. And now you've got the moment to go, Okay, how do I want to move forward? And then it's like, well, I want to be better for my house for myself, for my family, for the environments. And it's like, but you can do that. Just because you've always done it in a certain way doesn't, you know, it's good to reflect sometimes and think, Where did all this culture have come from? Where did all this time or, you know, I've wasted so much time? It's like, okay, but you can't change the past you are where you are now. So how are you moving forward? however long you've got left that nobody knows the answer to that question.

38:58
But how can you enjoy the rest?

39:04
In your way? And yeah, I think that's that's, that's maybe the crux of it, isn't it? I think I think it is. And it's important not to be on a soapbox and haranguing people and making them feel bad. Because this is the world we live in now. And yeah, human beings, and we're flawed. And this, these are the ways that we tend to conduct ourselves. But I think the takeaway here for all of us is that whatever age you are, whatever stage of life you're at,

39:31
you can still stop, you can still pause, you can still slow down, you can still declutter, can do all those things that will allow you to make sure that the next chapters of your life are luminous, right? Yeah. Wherever you are, on life's great arc, the rest of your life can be the best of your life. Yeah, can only be that. If you do that slow, decluttering homework upfront. That's the starting point. That's the launchpad. And it's there for all of us, right? Because let's be honest, for most of us, it's free, right? You don't have to buy anything.

40:00
I think for the most part, to declutter, in fact, the opposite right or to slow down. Yeah, often it means spending less in the in certainly in the longer term. So final question for you then, Carl, what do you do to slow down?

40:14
What do you enjoy while slowing down is maybe a better question. As you expect, I have lots of slow arrows in my quiver up. I'm a huge cook. I love cooking. And for me cooking is just like yoga, I just all of the sort of fast stuff just melts away as soon as the onion or the garlic hits. start sizzling in the pan. I just I love cooking, and I love cooking and eating with with people who matter to me. I do do yoga, I do a meditation. I love being in nature. I think walking, especially in a green space is an immensely powerful way to slow down whether you call it eco therapy or forest bathing. You know, Mother Nature is there for all of us. So go out there. And I also love to read, I don't read on a screen. I love novels. And so a big part every day I will be reading some novel of some kind at some stage. No speed reading involved.

41:07
Reading every word, no multiple page turn technique. Thank you so much for this conversation, Carl. I've thoroughly enjoyed it. If people want to find out more about you, I mean of course we're going to put all the show notes and the links to the TED Talks and everything in the show notes. But if people want to have one place where they can find out everything from you whether they go that's for easy is just Carl Andre my full name no punctuation Carl Andre dot info. And there you'll find links to everything audio video, you name it much more than anyone would ever want to know about me and my work in one place.

41:44
Well, thank you so much for for being a guest and listeners. Have you had maybe a moment of going yes, I'm going much too fast. I need to go slow. Let us know share with us. You know that Leslie and I love receiving your comments, your your emails, let us know on the clutter. hub.com forward slash 261 How you feel about slowing down or maybe realizing that you're going too fast. Thank you for this conversation again, Carl. It was an absolute pleasure to have you. Thank you. It's been a joy from start to finish. Thank you so much.

42:25
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hop podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode. And we'll see you next week.
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Recent Posts
Episode 347 – Dealing with grief after losing a pet with guest Kevin Spurgeon

Episode 346 – Pros and cons of decluttering one item a day

Episode 345 – 10 things to declutter from your junk drawer

Episode 344 – Helen Flanagan talks clutter, ADHD and managing a home with a young family

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Bethanie Branton says:

22 November 2023 at 2:05 AM

This podcast really resonated with me. I live a slow life. I find calm in being slow and taking time to enjoy life, and not having a lot if stuff. Too much stuff or too many obligations causes me so much stress. So i just learned to be really good at saying no. No thank you for that freebie that is just clutter. Saying no to too much stuff to do. I feel like i do need to continue to work on slowing down even though i feel like i am slow but i still feel i can do more. I do not believe that we can actually multitask, because you cannot give 100% to three tasks at one time.

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1. Lesley Spellman says:
  
  22 November 2023 at 9:02 AM
  
  Sounds like you have worked out a rhythm that works well for you. Brilliant!
  
  Reply
Episode 261 – The power of slow in a fast world with guest Carl Honoré

Episode 347 – Dealing with grief after losing a pet with guest Kevin Spurgeon

Episode 346 – Pros and cons of decluttering one item a day

Episode 345 – 10 things to declutter from your junk drawer

Episode 344 – Helen Flanagan talks clutter, ADHD and managing a home with a young family

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