Episode 203 – Preparing for a renovation – a Q&A with Tom Watson

Today’s guest, former MP, Tom Watson, has had a recent ADHD diagnosis. Whilst he has spent time putting organisational strategies in place at home to create order, things are about to get turned upside down when he moves home. In today’s podcast, Tom is the one asking the questions about how to navigate through this and I’m going to do my best to answer them.
Tom served as MP for West Bromwich East from 2001 until 2019 and was Deputy Leader of the Labour Party from 2015 to 2019. He was a minister for Prime Minister Tony Blair and worked at the very heart of 10 Downing Street with Prime Minister Gordon Brown.
During his time in the Houses of Parliament, Tom built a reputation as a passionate campaigner. He challenged corrupt tabloid newspapers during the phone-hacking scandal and campaigned for reforms to the betting Industry.
After changing his diet and getting fit, Tom has the global sugar industry in his sights and is committed to raising awareness about the dangers of excess and hidden sugars and improving public understanding of conditions like type 2 diabetes.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Lesley: Today's guest, Tom Watson, has had a recent A D H D diagnosis. While he has spent time putting organisational strategies in place at home to create order, things are about to get turned upside down when he moves home. In today's podcast, Tom is the one asking the questions about how to navigate through this, and I'm going to do my best to answer them.

[00:00:20] Now, again, I'm very excited in Podcast 196. I really hope that you've listened to that already. We talked to Tom Watson about his inspirational weight loss journey where he reversed his type two diabetes and she a whopping eight stone. That's 112 pounds or 51 kilos. Can you actually believe it? He also shared the fact that he had had a recent A D H D diagnosis, which has made him rethink the way he manages himself, his home.

[00:00:46] And his life. It's a brilliant podcast. If you've not listened already, do go back because there's some absolute gems in there, which is going to make you think about the parallels between decluttering and weight loss. Now, when we first chatted to Tom about being a guest on the podcast, he had loads of questions about how he will be able to manage an upcoming house moving renovation.

[00:01:04] So today we're going to do something different. Tom is going to be asking the questions, and I'm going to. Try and help him navigate through his up impending upheaval. I'm a bit nervous, Tom. I dunno whether I want to be the interviewee. 

[00:01:18] Tom: Well, I think I'm the one that should be nervous 'cause I'm going to ask you all these questions and I've got a hunch you're going to tell me off of being very disorganised.

[00:01:27] Lesley: Or never? Never. I'm just hoping that I'm going to be able to understand this is a thing I've never, you know, when we do our Q and a's, we always do a little bit of prep just to make sure we're not taking off guards. This is like a kind of, you know, quick fire round for me, isn't it? And I feel like I need my partner in crime here to answer some of the questions.

[00:01:42] Tom: It's just me. Yeah. Okay. Well, let's give it a go, Lesley and I, but can I describe my circumstances to you? Right. Of course. I'm a recovering politician. I have a D H D. I'm not naturally organised and. Three years ago, um, I, I agreed with my partner that we would begin to renovate a very old house and we've already done it wrong.

[00:02:07] We've got all the planning permission we've had to move out 'cause it's going to be rewired and re plumbed and a massive piece of work. And we've decluttered a lot of things. We've given a lot of things to charity shops, but I'm sure that some of the things we've already put into storage, Should have been decluttered out before it went into storage.

[00:02:30] So we are kind of, sort of starting afresh, which is good, but there's still some things we need to move in. Right. And I'm thinking of all things that do my head in in that current house now. And I'm going to start in order of the things that caused me the most stress, and I'm going to. How do I manage coats, jackets, shoes, and trainers, and what's the best way to have a system to store them?

[00:03:00] Lesley: Right. Well, it's going to be, so first things first. I think it's really interesting what you're going through because it's a fantastic opportunity and it's also the thing that started me off as a professional organiser. So 14 years ago, I think it was 14 years ago. The house that I live in at the moment was a derelict.

[00:03:15] I. It's kind of four bedroom, um, Victorian. It's not actually it's five bedrooms, um, Victorian property. And we renovated it from scratch. Same thing as you are doing electricals. We moved out with a year renovation and the nice thing about that was it gives you the opportunity to go all the way back to first principles and make it perfect.

[00:03:35] Now, I think the difference perhaps between you and I was that I had, um, had the same. The family. So have you, have you, are you moving in for the first time with your girlfriend or did you live together before? 

[00:03:46] Tom: My partner's got three kids. Right. And they've all got wifi demands and plug demands and Okay.

[00:03:54] Games, consoles, books, 

[00:03:55] Lesley: and. Okay. And so did you come from a property before together? So you know how that, how the family operates? 

[00:04:03] Tom: No, we're, we're doing it for the first time and I've got two kids are going to be staying with us, uh, as well every so often. So it's a big, it's a big family. N negotiation, moderation?

[00:04:15] Um, well, I mean, just getting the kids to move out of the house ready for the re renovation was stressful, although they're really pleased because the only thing they want is more plug sockets in their bedrooms. As you can imagine, that's the kind of the modern currency for kids, as long as they can get good broadband so they can play their video games.

[00:04:35] Lesley: And what age are the kids, 

[00:04:36] Tom: Tom? They're all in their teams. Various of one, one of them in his early twenties and will probably be at university by, uh, by the time the house is done. And now all the other four are in their teams. 

[00:04:48] Lesley: And you are, um, sorry, asking loads of questions now I'm asking all the questions again.

[00:04:52] Um, 'cause it's important for me to kind of work out what the house is like. So is it a big property? Is it a small property? 

[00:04:59] Tom: It's a three bedroom. End of, end of Terrace, Georgia with quite high roof, quite big, you know, quite big rooms you can imagine. Um, and we're, we're hopefully going into the roof. So there's a new staircase going in.

[00:05:14] Um, and, and it's a bit higgledy pig deep 'cause it's been knocked around over the years, but hopefully it's going to have a bigger kitchen and it's going to have some space. You downstairs that you could call a utility room where you can do all your washing and, and your ironing. And that's one of my questions, Lesley, to get there because at the moment there's no organisation of any of that either.

[00:05:39] And um, 

[00:05:40] Lesley: I think, I think you've identified already. A couple of problem areas there. So you've thought about coats, shoes, obviously you're out, you're active. Presumably the rest of the family are active as well, so that's going to be important. That's going to be a non-negotiable, so that needs to fit in somewhere.

[00:05:57] The problem that we get sometimes when we do renovations, when we get kitchen designers in, when we get bathroom designers, in wardrobe designers, Is that it's all about the aesthetic and it's not about taking things back to basics. And so first of all, we need to identify, right, okay, let's be realistic now and let's you know whether this is a kitchen, a bedroom, a utility room, whatever that is.

[00:06:19] What do we actually need? Let's be realistic about what we've got already. Now you put your stuff into storage, which makes it a little bit more difficult. 'cause ideally this would've been done before your stuff had got in storage. But you and your partner together will be able to work out. Right. What?

[00:06:33] How many shoes have we got that need to be by the front door? So the coats and shoes and things that you are talking about are not the ones that are stored in bedrooms, presumably. They're the kind of outdoor, everyday shoes and coats that need to be by the back door for you to be able to go out. Yeah.

[00:06:48] So in this house, I definitely put, you know, I have got space in here, so I definitely had a whole run of coat. Um, cupboards for like, and in there I've got ski jackets, outdoor jackets, not, not jackets that I would wear if I was going out on a Saturday night and things like that, but more outdoorsy kind of jackets.

[00:07:07] I have shoe racks as well. I think the key is to keep it simple. Um, you have to think about, I. How is that system going to be maintained? So it's not about making something that looks amazing, it's about making something that is very, very functional, easy to manage for the whole family. So that might be as simple as, um, little box, well, big sort of trucks, you know, those kind of round flexible containers where you can just chuck all the trainers in.

[00:07:33] It might be as simple as that. If you know, what's your partner like? Is she organised or is she someone that's going to tidy up after the rest of the family, 

[00:07:41] Tom: or? She is, she is organised but very busy. She's got a big job. So, um, time is always a problem with us. Um, and, um, and the kids, you know, if the kids are at college, they're doing their work, they've got part-time jobs, they're, you know, they're out the about, so, um, we're, we're up against it on organisation and time I would say.

[00:08:01] Lesley: Yeah, so I think, yeah, right. Okay. So that everything needs to be as simple as it possibly can be, and as manageable as it can be. We can't have little tiny cubby holes for all these different shoes that are going to involve pairing things up and putting them in. Let's keep it simple. Is, is this, are the, is the shoe storage going to be somewhere where it's kind of hidden from the hallway?

[00:08:20] Or have you got a room that you can put it that's almost like a boot room type thing you think We 

[00:08:24] Tom: could, at the. If we, if we come in the back of the house, we could, there's a space that we could create as a kind of boot and coat room. Um, and at the moment it's all at the front. So you walk in the house and you're confronted by, you know, all sorts of outdoor wear and muddy boots from walks in woods and trendy trainers from very fashionable teenagers.

[00:08:46] And, uh, they're all in a, they're all in a jumble. 

[00:08:49] Lesley: Yeah, it's, it is really interesting because I talk about like how I created this sort of coat room. 'cause I had all these ideas. I was like, okay, everyone's going to come through the back door and then they're going to drop their coats and their shoes in my kind of utility room, and then they're going to come into the kitchen.

[00:09:02] Do they do that? No. They come in the front door and they, they drop their stuff. Not in the coat room. Not in the shoe room. So what that then coat room and shoe room becomes, is more of a storage area for keeping things for when we're going to take them out. And somebody normally me then is the one that every week.

[00:09:19] And I do that in my weekly reset. So on a weekend I'll take the stuff from, you know, there's trainers on a kind of coat stand in the hallway, but not too many. I won't allow it to sort of build up too much. Um, so there will be coats and shoes in the hallway, but it's not all of the coats and shoes. And so, and it's the same principle as when you're, um, I mean you're, you're past the toy era.

[00:09:38] Same principle with toy rooms. You know, it sounds, it always sounds a fantastic idea to have a playroom with all these toys and the kids are going to play in there. Well, they're not. They're going to play in the kitchen or the living room where the parents and the siblings are. And so, so, but sometimes it's great to have that storage area so you've got a place for it.

[00:09:53] It might not go into that place at the time that you want it to, but it's got an opportunity to be put away. And that's the important thing. So keep it simple. Try and keep it out of, um, sight if you can, for the most part, and know that it might not quite work out the way that you want it to if you've got teenagers at home.

[00:10:11] That would be my advice. 

[00:10:13] Tom: That's good advice. So get a boot room and change the teenagers. That's probably the right, 

[00:10:17] Lesley: yeah. Probably that, that's also possible, but a bit more difficult to, uh, 

[00:10:22] Tom: manage. Okay. This is the next one. Um, we are in the fortunate position that we're going to pick a new kitchen. Okay. We both love cooking.

[00:10:33] My partner has lots of baking and um, and, and sort of cook preparation aids, some of which are being passed down from grandparents. So they're rarely used, but occasionally used. And right now we haven't got enough space for it all. But we're hoping to get a kitchen where it can all find a place. How do you start off with finding the right kind of kitchen and the right kind of kitchen units with storage in mind?

[00:11:08] Lesley: Okay, so obviously you'll choose some kind of kitchen designer, but again, it's taken it back to basics because any, and, and I'm sorry if any kitchen designers are listening, but generally, of course, we talked about marketing in the last podcast, and people are trying to sell you things all the time. And of course there are fancy gadgets in kitchens all the time that look amazing.

[00:11:29] Like, oh, I'd love to have a wine fridge. I'd love to have little wine cooler. I'd love to have pullout racks. I'd love to have a lemons unit. You know, all of those things look amazing. But actually, sometimes it's just about keeping it simple. You need to do almost an in inventory of what you've got or what you need and say, right, and go through cupboard by cupboard and say, right, I need this 600 wide unit.

[00:11:54] Buy one shelf for my glasses. Or if you've got loads and loads of glasses, 'cause you love to entertain all the time, you've got different glasses for shot glasses and whiskey glasses and branded glasses and all these different things. You might need two shells for your wine glasses. So this is about.

[00:12:08] Working through your kitchen step by step and saying, what do I actually need? Working that out and then making sure when the kitchen designer comes round that you have got space for everything. In any kitchen, whether it's huge or not, there will be compromises that need to be made. There's very few kitchens where anybody has got specs.

[00:12:28] Yeah, so people pretty much use those all, all, all the time. Um, and so it's important to think about shelves. Think about. What's going to be useful to me? Don't go for the fancy gadgets. Some things are fantastic. So a lemons unit, which is the pullout, I dunno if you've ever seen those. So a lemons is a kind of, um, a kind of circular shelf that kind of whizzes out from a corner cupboard.

[00:12:51] So they make a fantastic use of a corner cupboard, but sometimes they can be quite restrictive because you can't use the whole cupboard. So, I've got two corner cupboards in my kitchen. One of them has got a LeMans unit in it, and one of 'em hasn't. And so that was done by design. I recently had a kitchen about 18 months ago, and so it's all about fine tuning that.

[00:13:11] Think about, you know, you are obviously into the right kind of food. You're going to have a lot of spices, you're going to have a lot of pulses, you're going to have all of those, you know, and as soon as you go down a health route, there's more of that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's more difficult to store. It's more difficult to store.

[00:13:27] Than tins and those kind of things. And you need, there's a lot of different ones, isn't there? All the different spices, all the different pulses and things like that. I presume that you eat pulses, I think that you do. Um, and so you do have more, you're more nuts, more, you know, more of the same, if that makes sense.

[00:13:45] So really think about. Visibility. So what you want to see is, right, I want all of these things at height that is going to be suitable for me. And accessibility. You don't want things stuffed behind something else. And so I, in my kitchen, I put in a pantry unit, which is fantastic in terms of visibility. I. So I get all the food into one pantry, you know, whereas before it would've been spread around.

[00:14:08] So, and, and that's fantastic for you Tom, as well with your A D H D to have that visibility and accessibility is going to be so, so important for you. Don't be scared of using labels as well. Um, you know, a lot of, um, A D H D strategies are to take. Doors off kitchens, uh, and so that you can see things without opening doors, but that then comes at an aesthetic price.

[00:14:29] And so you've got to work out if you are going to have open shelving, which is a great thing for A D H D. But you've got to be super organised for it to look nice. And so that's where the compromise comes in. Does that make sense? So I, I think you can, so that's where a pantry is nice because everything is in one big cupboard or a cupboard with some drawers maybe underneath.

[00:14:49] Um, you can label them up, close the door in the pantry, and all you've got to do is open two doors and see everything. So if, if you have the opportunity to get a sort of, I mean like a tall, lighter cupboard. I don't mean a thin one, I mean quite a wide one where everything is in one thing would be fabulous for your, um, you know, to cover a lot of the things that you want to cover in your new kitchen.

[00:15:10] Tom: That's all great advice. You're doing really well there, Lesley. You were great. Oh, good. 

[00:15:14] Lesley: Whew. 

[00:15:14] Tom: This is hard. Okay, so this is the next one, right? So we've got, obviously it's a very old house, so there's a cell which currently hasn't got any, you know, it's, it's just brickwork. And over the years there was a lot of clutter.

[00:15:29] Just thrown down there, big things that kids don't use anymore. Bits of furniture that you know, would no longer be used. One of the hardest things we found was getting all that out and either donating it to charity shops or taking it to the tip. Um, but it's now a nice big space that we think should be used for storage.

[00:15:51] How do people set their stellars up to have proper storage? What kind of units do you use? How do you do your shelving? Have you got any tips for that? 

[00:16:01] Lesley: Well, it very much depends on what you're going to store down there. Um, and how, so is it going to be a dry cellar, so it's going to be dry? Is it going to be fin uh, 

[00:16:08] Tom: finished?

[00:16:09] It? It's pretty dry. We, at the moment, we, we can decide whether we, whether we sort of put plasterboard in, plaster it or whether we keep it just at the brick. But it's, it's, we are lucky that it's dry. There's not really any damp down there, so you could store things down there for quite a long 

[00:16:22] Lesley: time. I mean, one of the things that we talk about quite a lot in the declutter hub is barriers.

[00:16:26] And so sometimes there are barriers that stop us from doing things. So quite often, uh, a lot of people in this country certainly have, um, if you do have a cellar, quite often we'll put their laundry washing machine dryer and things like that and washing down in the cellar. And so, but sometimes if it's not finished, so if you've not gone to that stage of making it look nice and be.

[00:16:46] Clean, sort of like, I know it can be clean, but it's cleaner with plasterboard on and things like that. Um, sometimes it can be that in that sort of subconscious barrier that stops you from doing that because it's a bit cold and it's a bit d and it's a bit grimy. So we don't want to go down there to do that if you can make it into a nice inviting space.

[00:17:04] And so my advice to you would be if you are doing a full renovation, unless it's going to involve tanking the wholesaler, which is a whole nother kind of extra 20 grand or something. Really try and make that space look as nice and bright and area as you can. 'cause then that takes away that barrier of it not looking great and you kind kind of going, oh, I'll do that.

[00:17:24] I'll put it there and I'll take it down tomorrow when it's a bit lighter. Or you know, it's all these kind of things. It's like when people have things outside in that garden, you know, we have to, again, we have to make compromises. We've got things where we can put them. 'cause we don't, not everybody's got space for everything exactly where they want it.

[00:17:39] But, you know, that's where we see washing starts to pile up when there's a garden, laundry or a shed outside is because it's just this little subconscious barrier that's stopping you from doing that. So then we pile it up 'cause we'll do it all tomorrow. And so really think that through. So if you can't, it's probably worth the investment for you to, to make it look nice.

[00:17:56] Yeah. Um, make it look clean and dry and inviting. Put some lights in there. Particularly if you're going through the rest of the renovation. 'cause you've got the people in the house and it'll just be one extra day, you know, of, of their work. And then in terms of what kind of storage shelving? Keep it simple.

[00:18:12] Keep it wide. If you then, you know, so you can buy basic stuff from kind of b and q, from Target or from, um, I'm trying to think what it's called in the states. Can't remember the other d i y stores are available and so just. Make it maybe like 12 inches apart, meet each shelf. And so you can put boxes in there.

[00:18:31] Labels are key down there. Uh, make sure that you zone it very well, you know, make sure that you, um, keep all your garden stuff together, all your car stuff together. I. All your outdoor toys together. If you've got those, you know, really pull down on the number of paint, you're going to do a renovation, you're going to have all those paint pots, are we ever going to use them again?

[00:18:51] Really think that through. So it's about wide shelving that's labeled well and can put, can have boxes put on it. Normally, I would 

[00:19:01] Tom: say, That's great advice. That's where all my Christmas stuff will go as well, by the way. 'cause that's okay. That's what you gave me. I, uh, you two. I, I like, I've already talked about this, but Christmas decorations was always a chore for me.

[00:19:14] But, um, anyway, that's where they're going to 

[00:19:16] Lesley: go. So have you done the decluttering already, Tom? So you've, so you've decluttered most of that stuff out the basement already? 

[00:19:21] Tom: Yeah, we've done a lot. I mean, it's painful. I mean, when you're trying to get rid of items, some of which you know, if your grandma's given you something that has absolutely no function or anywhere to go, just letting it go is really, really hard, isn't it?

[00:19:36] So I would say between us, we've actually, we've gone through a really, the most painful process. And, and for me, second on my list, Sarah made me put this in. But, uh, she said, what are you going to do about all your books? And I've, I've given a lot of my books to the charity shop, but even. In what I think is a very generous act.

[00:19:57] I've got like 10 times more books than average. I think so, but I think I've got, obviously the answer to that is either declutter more or make sure you have enough bookshelves in bits of the house where the books can be read and have functioned. Um, I'm, you can tell I'm being reticent asking these questions 'cause I know what you're going to say.

[00:20:16] 'cause I've 

[00:20:16] Lesley: listened. Yeah. You literally, yeah, you're literally answering your own question. 'cause you're scared of what my answer's going to be. You don't me.

[00:20:27] Exactly. Um, it is an interesting one because we've not actually done a full podcast on books because it is quite complex from an emotional perspective, particularly for someone, you, you, you fit the bill completely of someone who loves books and would consider them to be a collection. And so first things first, we have to take ourselves into a place where we admit that.

[00:20:49] All books are not equal and that we have to break it down from that collection. So you, you are just like, but they're all together. Do you know what I mean? I love them all together and I can't get rid of my books and things like that. And so you'll allow yourself to, to take you to a certain place. But you've got to think about, so first things first, break it down and say, I can look at one book at a time and evaluate it.

[00:21:14] As a single. That's the thing. That's the biggest, biggest problem that anyone's got. With books. They view it and people have got the same things with shoes or with certain kinds of ornaments or whatever that might be. Everyone's got a collection and book lovers love books and like to view them as a collection.

[00:21:28] CDs, DVDs, all of those kind of things are the same. So take yourself to a place where you admit that actually you can go one book at a time and there will undoubtedly be so that are more special than others. Um, you don't have to get rid of all your books if you don't want to, but you need to know when that becomes overwhelming and when those books are stopping you from doing other things in that room that you want to do.

[00:21:49] And so that's the important thing about books and look at them, are the aspirational books, for example. So are there books in there that you are keeping because you think they'll look good? I'm not saying this is you, I'm just saying potentially that's the reason why a lot of people have got them. You know, be honest with yourself.

[00:22:06] A little bit of realism, you know, self-improvement books, um, kind of joke books that we've been given. You know, if, if people know that you love books, if you're a, if you, people will give you books as well, and it's about being honest about those books and evaluating one up against the other. You will undoubtedly have your favorites.

[00:22:23] Start to think about, about which books do I want to keep rather than which ones do I want to let go of. 

[00:22:29] Tom: Do you know what, that's really helpful. In fact, you have helped me in over the years. I mean I do now, you know, books that don't have as much value in terms of what they've got to say. I download a lot more on Kindle now 'cause obviously that's, and that's about space management.

[00:22:45] Although that, that's really because in 30 years I've had three or four book collections in various family members' garages. And they're about to return to the house when it's got bookshelf. So I need to work on that. That's the question I didn't want to ask you, but you give 

[00:23:00] Lesley: I know, I know. Because you were, you were just going, I, Sarah, you, Sarah told me to ask this, then you asked it, and then you, you proceeded to answer it yourself and not want the answer I was going to give you.

[00:23:13] So I've done it for you, Sarah. I've done it for you. I've answered it. So you just need to watch now what goes on. 

[00:23:19] Tom: Be grateful about that. Thank you. Um, you know what, 

[00:23:21] Lesley: I'm just going to go to, I'm just going to go to a little break. I'm just going to, I'm going to go a break and then we'll come back. Is that right? Okay.

[00:23:26] So, Tom, have you got more questions for me and, um, are you going to allow me to answer 'em? This is a question. No, I'm 

[00:23:33] Tom: going to let you answer this next one because this, I think I sort of know the answer to this one, but the, the great thing about this refurbishment is we're going to refurbish the bathrooms and they need a bit of tidy night.

[00:23:44] We're going to lovely showers with really nice warm water. But the thing, obviously, the thing that infuriates. Adults when it comes to teenagers is what you do with your towels and what you do with all your toiletries and how you keep all that sort of, you know, in order without it spreading all over the place.

[00:24:05] Have you got any advice for how you can do that? 

[00:24:08] Lesley: Towels is a tricky one. Um, and it depends. Are you going to have multiple bathrooms or. 

[00:24:14] Tom: There's going to be two bathrooms. Yeah. So there 

[00:24:15] Lesley: be two bathrooms. Okay. Um, I know in Ingrid's family, everyone's got a different color towel, so that's what she does with hers.

[00:24:24] All my, in my house, we use white towels everywhere, and they kind of got their own bathrooms and so it's not really a problem. But ultimately there comes a point at which. You just have to either shout a lot or pick up after them. That's basically, I haven't really got any, you know, when it comes to teenagers, I really haven't got, you know, this is kind of more parenting than it is decluttering, and so you just have to get to a stage where, What's the easier solution?

[00:24:51] Is it to shout all the time and hope that it goes in, or is it to just do a little reset of yourself and just pick a couple of towels up? My kids are quite, are quite good. I dunno whether you listen to the podcast, Tom. What? Which I did with my own children. That might be a good one for you to listen to actually.

[00:25:07] Which was about their kind of what they thought about growing up with me in the house. But there are things that have gone in. You know what I mean? And so much as I'm like, they're a nightmare. They're a nightmare. They're actually not a nightmare compared to a lot of children. And my standards are probably a little bit higher than a lot.

[00:25:23] And so they, but they have taken those skills to their own houses, which is the more important thing to me is they're going into their adult life with some kind of strategies. They know the way that it needs to be done because they've been taught it. And that's what's important. So, I kind of let it go a little bit, so I'm sorry.

[00:25:42] I don't really have the answer to that question. Okay. 

[00:25:45] Tom: But then in storage of just store, I mean, you know, what kind of cupboards are good for bathrooms because you, you see a lot of really good looking designer stuff for roos, but it doesn't look very functional to me. And we we're at the point where we can, we've got some choices 

[00:25:59] Lesley: there.

[00:25:59] Okay. Um, if you've got space, the long, the long tall cabinets are fantastic 'cause they, you can get everything in, you can get in the behind doors again, again. What you could do, um, to, for your A D H D for things to be more visible for you is you could label, so put, so have shelves in there that contains certain types of toiletries.

[00:26:19] You know, this is where the, I don't know, this is where the shaving stuff, this is where the toothpaste stuff goes. This is. Blah, blah, blah. Um, and make sure those are labeled and containerized. Containerization is absolutely critical in a bathroom. So make sure you've got something that's got shelves that are good enough for you to put a container in.

[00:26:36] So, um, yeah, certainly in our bathroom we have two sort of tall cabinets, so they almost go. They don't go floor to ceiling, but they are probably four foot high. And if you can get those in, those are the best types of, um, cabinet to have. The cabinets that are over your sink tend to be very narrow, so they're not deep enough to put loads of stuff.

[00:26:56] They're quite useful for some stuff. They're kind of medication, the odd toothbrush and stuff, but they're not good for deodorants and stuff like that. So if you can, the more storage you can get in a bathroom, the better, uh, and the more containerized that storage is, the better 

[00:27:09] Tom: as well. That's, that's what I'm taking from this.

[00:27:13] Things that can take containers. And of course that's obvious, isn't it? When you think about all the little things that you can categorize in and then just stick 'em on a shelf. Okay. Yeah, because 

[00:27:22] Lesley: it's just about rum. I mean, I'm, I'm. Not that meticulous a person, I just want everything to be in the right place that I can find it when I need to.

[00:27:30] I'm not bothered about it looking absolutely beautiful, you know, as long as it's behind a door, then I'm fine with that. And so I think I'm happy to rummage and so I'm not really a, a big folder of items. I'm more. As long as all those things are together, then I know where they are, and that's important to me.

[00:27:44] So I actually try and put solutions in place which don't involve a lot of effort. And so, and I think containerizing anything, you know, we could, you can containerize in your kitchen as well, um, is a fantastic place to containerize if, if anything could go into a container. What that means is that you can lift it out and rummage and find air does that, so it almost becomes a drawer.

[00:28:05] So if, if it's in a kitchen, that's why drawers are so popular in kitchens now. They have their downside 'cause crumbs fall into them. But in general, drawers are really useful vis visibility and accessibility, so, okay, 

[00:28:17] Tom: that's very helpful. This is, this last question is one of the ones that I didn't want to ask, but I've been told to ask, 

[00:28:24] Lesley: right.

[00:28:24] And are you going to, are you going to allow me. 

[00:28:27] Tom: Well, I, I'm going to, I'm going to wince in pain when you tell me. I, I've been told that I don't have a wardrobe. That I have a wardrobe. Okay. And I try and explain that's because with a D H D, you need all your things. You need them nearby you. 'cause they don't exist if they're hidden.

[00:28:45] Right? Unless you've got a D H D. People don't understand that. But we've got the opportunity of having new wardrobes in every bedroom. What advice have you got for. Uh, two adults who find it very difficult to get rid of, even clothes they don't wear anymore. And then kids who obviously are fashion icons and have a lot of clothes, 

[00:29:07] Lesley: well, it's really going to be dependent on the space that you've got.

[00:29:11] Of course, as, as always, can you have open wardrobes anywhere? Have you got scope to have, I mean, if you've got four bedrooms, you're probably not going to be able to have a dressing room as such. Are you. 

[00:29:20] Tom: There, there's a sort of London area that may, that's a big space that may end up with, you know, that could have sort of extra store rich.

[00:29:27] Uh, and the rooms are pretty big, so we'll get, we will get, you can get quite a bit in there, I think, but we haven't quite, we haven't that, we haven't even got to the system yet. I mean, with the, when it comes to sort of collective action, Close management. We've not had that negotiation yet. I have to do mine in my way and everyone does theirs and theirs way and that 

[00:29:50] Lesley: what feels like the right way.

[00:29:51] So what feels like the right way to you? 

[00:29:54] Tom: I, I, for me, It only works. I, I, I mean, okay, so this is going back to the first, I, I was sort of as a joke, given that Marie Kondo book, which I'm sure a lot of your, uh, listeners will know. And I tried to spark joy or not spark joy when I touched the items and actually managed to really get rid a lot of, a lot of my clothes.

[00:30:19] Um, and it was quite good 'cause I got rid of all my big clothes when I lost all the. So for me it really only works if I only have a limited number of clothes that I really like. And so, and I could be, and that's really be admitted to you, that I'm very bad at storage systems. I've never cracked it. I, if I do it, I need a draw that is only socks, preferably the same color 'cause I can't match them.

[00:30:45] And then, you know, pants in one draw t-shirts in the other, I can't, I can't mix and match, but I haven't got any further than that. And that's probably a mix of a D H D and just very bad organisation. 

[00:30:58] Lesley: And perhaps you don't need, uh, and so you've identified there what you need, which is I need things to be, again, it's kind of almost a containerization again.

[00:31:05] So you need all these socks together. You can have draw dividers, and so that's possible. So if you've got big wide draws in your new, um, wardrobe set up, you can split those with draw dividers, which gives you that sort of delineation between the two. So that's possible. Less is definitely more when it comes to A D H D.

[00:31:22] Okay. And so, The fewer things you have, the better that's going to be for you to kind of manage, you know? So for someone with a D H D, the wardrobes need to be less full. We aim typically for about 85% full, would be our kind of recommendation in a, in a hanging rail. Um, with a D H D, perhaps you need a little bit more space to be able to see things a little, a little bit more clearly.

[00:31:43] In terms of, in terms of. The, the kinds of questions you need to ask yourself to get yourself into a frame of mind, to offload some of the things that you no longer want. It's really looking at whether they fit your current lifestyle. So are they serving you well? Do they make you feel good? When you open the wardrobe and you've got, you'll have a lot of residual emotions surrounding that with the weight loss journey that you've gone through.

[00:32:09] I have no doubt that you've looked. Into your wardrobe and you know, I mean, how was that? I'm, but let me take a step back. How was that when you finally decided to get rid of your. Sort of close from when you were bigger? Yeah, it was. Um, how did you feel about 

[00:32:25] Tom: it? It was mixed emotions really. Um, I mean, part of it was when I was a politician, you know, I had to, I couldn't buy off the peg suits, so I had to spend a lot more money than most people on suits that fitted.

[00:32:39] And, uh, I think I put this in the book, um, in downsizing my. But my, but actually might be the new one, but my friend Mark told me he was an MP that he said to me, he said, you're the only man I know who can make a 500 pound suit look like a 50 pound suit. And, uh, so it was kind of quite funny when I, you know, I got rid of the, and replaced them with off the peg game and s suits, which, um, so there was a sort of, almost like a ceremony where I just took a big pile off one.

[00:33:05] Rack took them over to the charity shop and then slowly replace 'em over a few months. And it is a f and it's a funny feeling then. And then every so often I'll still, you know, I'll find a shirt that's, um, that, that I've missed and, um, look at the collar size and think, did I really, you know, 'cause they in, they look enormous on me now they, they look like I'm wearing a tent if I put them on.

[00:33:28] And, and my kids help me with some of it. And they, you so it was a bit emotional as well 'cause they were very proud of what I did as well. Yeah, of course. 

[00:33:34] Lesley: Of course. Absolutely. 

[00:33:35] Tom: Uh, but these days, y you know, I think, 'cause we kind of, the house, you know, we're getting the house ready to renovate, there's been no permanent solution to any storage solution.

[00:33:47] So it, it's, it, you know, everything is temporary and we've known it's temporary until the house is done. And that in itself is quite. Stress inducing, isn't it? When you, when you just, you've got a temporary solution to something. 

[00:34:01] Lesley: I think that in general, what's really nice about going into a renovated property is that this is what a lot of people, um, feel when they go in.

[00:34:11] They don't want to kind of tarnish it. With loads of stuff. And so I think you'll find that a lot of that happens as a matter of course, anyway. So you'll go in and you'll start to open in box and go, why did we keep that? We absolutely don't want it. So just the fact that it's all brand new. You know, you're going to go into a stage where everything is brand new, you know, you've got this beautiful new wardrobe's, got this beautiful new kitchen, and you will naturally pare down because you, you've got all the tools here, Tom.

[00:34:36] You know, you know exactly what you need to do. Yes, you've got a few little things standing in your way, of course, that are a little bit. You know, other strategies that you need to think about. But if you really think about that visibility, accessibility, um, compromise, think about the life that you lead at the moment.

[00:34:53] So that's another thing that I wanted to ask you. Actually, sorry, I'm turning it around and asking you questions. Um, When you left your life as a politician, does your, your wardrobe that you have to wear now on a day-to-day basis look the same or is it completely different? It's completely 

[00:35:08] Tom: different. In fact, in fact, lockdown added to that as well.

[00:35:11] So the other day I had, for the first time in two years, I had to wear a suit. I. And I was really grumpy about it. You know, ironing a shirt, putting suits on, trying to find a tie that match. And basically now I can wear trainer's, jeans and shirts and just get on with it, you know, or running, you know, go for a run and keep my gym kit on.

[00:35:29] Um, so yeah, it's really, really irritating trying to, um, and, and quite funny. Um, I slightly worry that when we come outta lockdown, I might have to do more meetings where I've got to wear suits again, because it's like, you know, that's, I used to have to, I've basically, I've wore a suit most days for 25 years, so I don't really want to do that again.

[00:35:49] Lesley: I think it's interesting because what we find quite a lot is that certainly for people who have, you know, had a corporate life and then they've now retired or they've had children, or they've had a change in circumstance. Quite reluctant to let go of a life that they loved. And so it is a psychological barrier there.

[00:36:06] Yours is almost in reverse where, 'cause you have this huge positive change. You know, a lot of people perceive that change to be not, not negative, but sort of different in some way. And it's something that's hard to let go of. So you've not got that you're like, I'm happy, um, irritates me that I've got to put a suit on.

[00:36:22] And so yours is almost in reverse and so I, I think that it will happen as a matter of course. Tom, I think you've got the tools. You know, think about those emotions that are holding you back. Think about whether it's serving your current life. Think about the fact that you know that simplicity is key to, to the way that this is going to, you know, this how this is going to help you with your A D H D, and you'll be sorted.

[00:36:42] It'll be, it'll all be fine with a magic wand and it'll all be done. 

[00:36:46] Tom: Thanks, Lesley. You know what? That's good advice and I, what I should say to you is it's such sensible advice. You should try to be Prime Minister 'cause you could actually probably sort the country out well, but dear 

[00:36:59] Lesley: me, dear you dear with me.

[00:37:01] Yeah. Um, I'm sure a lot of people who will listen to this will be laughing about that, but thank you. The last time we spoke, Tom, you were just about to publish, or your book, your new book had just been published, so we're now sort of six, seven weeks past that. How's it going? How's it been? It's it been 

[00:37:19] Tom: down?

[00:37:20] Yeah, it's called Lose Weight for Life and. It's, it, it's the second book in a, in of a health book. I wrote, my first book was downsizing that talked about how I reverse type two diabetes and lost eight stone and, and, and a little bit about how I put it all on in my early years. Um, but I ended up getting lots of letters and emails about it.

[00:37:40] People wanted more practical advice, so it's a kind of blueprint for how you do it. It's a positive way of dealing with all the challenges we have in the middle years and how we try and keep fit and healthy and stay bright. And I've had a really good response to it. So, so far, so good. And I think people really like it.

[00:38:00] And more importantly, I hope it's really helping people on their own health journeys. 

[00:38:04] Lesley: Fantastic. And where can people find out more about you? 

[00:38:08] Tom: Uh, so yeah, you could probably Google me and what you find, half of it is true and half of it is written in tabloid newspapers. They want the books, they'll find it on all the, you know, on Amazon Waterstones in all, in all good bookshops.

[00:38:23] And it's even been stopped by Sainsbury. So if you do it the weekly shot, you can get a copy of it, of Sainsbury's as well. 

[00:38:29] Lesley: And what's your website, 

[00:38:30] Tom: Tom? My website is Tom. Uk. I think you have to think about 

[00:38:37] Lesley: that. You have to think about that. Watson, you need that needs to, the 

[00:38:42] Tom: Tom

[00:38:46] on Twitter, Tom Watson, or I'm on Instagram at Tom Watson official and, um, there's. All sorts of discussion talk, and I do a weekly newsletter if people want it. We call ourselves with a little group of us. We call ourselves the persons of Positivity Club 'cause we support each other on things like accountability runs, and we do a little bit of charity fundraising and try and keep other, keep each other happy and bright.

[00:39:11] Lesley: I love that persons of positivity. A bit of alliteration in there as well. I love a bit of alliteration. It's right week. I know. I really don't want this conversation to end. I feel like this is not your last run on the podcast, Tom, so I, I want to know how the renovation's gone, so maybe in a year or so we'll come back and we'll talk to you again.

[00:39:31] Tom: I'd be kind of, you know, I was thinking of inviting you and Ingrid to come and see the new kitchen when it's done, but I, I might feel too much pressure. Oh no. We would love to A little trip out. Trip. That's be perfect. Maybe, maybe a special podcast for our new, uh, new details. Yes. 

[00:39:46] Lesley: So cool. That'd be, yeah.

[00:39:47] On the road. Ingrid and Lesley on the road, we talk about a, a world, a world trip, but we can go UK is fine too. UK fine too. Thank you so much for spending your time with us on both of the podcasts. They've both been fantastically insightful. You've shared your journey. You've shared a lot of things about your life that perhaps you've not shared before, and we feel privileged for you to have done that.

[00:40:08] I've absolutely loved the conversation and I want to wish you all the best with your fantastic career as an author, speaker. What other things, not a politician anymore, I'm sure you still dabble. Do you still dabble? 

[00:40:21] Tom: I try not to, I, I don't. Once there's nothing more X than an ex politician. I try not to get it.

[00:40:27] Lesley: So thank you so much, Tom. Let's talk about next week's podcast. Next week we're going to take it back to basics again. We're going to do a 10 things podcast that we love. It is 10 things to declutter from your linen cupboard. So Tom hints and tips in that. Listen out next week and you can decter your linen cupboard that the towels might.

[00:40:44] Into there. We'll talk about which towels to keep and which not. So thank you all so much everybody for listening, and we'll see you all next week.
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