A photograph of a smiling Cheryl Magowan
Episode 42 – Clutter Fairy client, Cheryl Magowan, shares her decluttering journey

In this podcast, Lesley talks to Clutter Fairy client, Cheryl Magowan, about the impact the decluttering journey had on her life and the change in direction she subsequently followed. Lesley worked with Cheryl over 5 years ago and went through a full home declutter. Cheryl had a big impact on Lesley and vice versa so it is an interesting story to listen to. The story of her decluttering journey is honest, impactful and insightful.
Prefer to read rather than listen?
Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The declutter hub podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your host, professional organisers, Ingrid Johnson, and Lesley Spellman.

Lesley  0:27  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 42 of the declutter hub Podcast. I'm Lesley, if you have clutter and want to sort it out. This is the show for you. Today we have a guest on our show, and I'm so excited to welcome Cheryl McGowan. Now Cheryl was a client of mine back in 2014, and is originally from Manchester, but now lives in my home county of Lancashire, it's fair to say the decluttering process had a big impact on the direction that Cheryl's life took after we first met. I don't want to spoil show her story, and she can tell it for herself. So let's jump straight in. Welcome Cheryl.

Unknown Speaker  1:03  
Hi,

Lesley  1:04  
how are you?

Speaker 3  1:06  
I'm great. How are you? I'm excited to be here.

Lesley  1:09  
Oh, I know. It's so excited. You know, as I said in the intro, really, we worked. It's a long time since we weren't together. But we're still friends on Facebook, and we still see what each other's doing. So you know, you feel that connection anyway. So it's just really interesting to see the sort of path that your life has taken. And you had a massive, massive impact on me when we first met. I think you're certainly what I would call one of life's special people without wanting to sound patronising. But there was something at the point that we met, which is why you call me and I guess, not working for you in your life, and you wanted to tackle it starting with your clutter. So you want to tell us a little bit about that, Cheryl?

Speaker 3  1:46  
Yeah, I'd be happy to the moment that I realised that I couldn't carry on was when I was I woke up one morning, and I couldn't find my car keys. And I couldn't find my shoes, and it was covered. Basically, I couldn't see my floor. And I realised that I just had too much stuff. And I think it was that day, actually, I found clutter fairy. And I contacted you. And I put the phone down about three times. Because I was nervous. And I think on the third time I got through, and then something within me just said enough. You know, I'd been living with far too much stuff for years and years and years. And I didn't realise how much I'd become okay with it. And I didn't realise how much I was functioning this functionally. And sometimes you get that used to seeing something being so chronic, it doesn't seem as chronic.

Lesley  2:58  
You get so used to seeing it don't even see you. It's there every day, so you don't see it anymore.

Speaker 3  3:05  
Exactly. And practically speaking, it was making my life a nightmare. So what I mean by that is I was would be getting bills, and that I wasn't paying that I didn't realise that I needed to pay. I was also getting refunds. So I've had I'd have checks as well sent to me. And I found this out when I started to do the decluttering process and started on the programme. But I found checks for like 100 pound rebates, 50 pound rebates, but they were that old or compassion in so I was missing out on claiming money. And also I was getting fined because I was just not covering the bills because I wasn't opening any letters had an obsession as well with paper. I know that now. I can say that sitting here now. But then I didn't. My big obsessions with paper and clothes. Yeah, huge, huge, huge shopping addiction. And generally, without any holes in backhoe exaggeration, I was miserable. I have that much stuff. I was just packing every orifice of my life. I mean home with stuff.

Lesley  4:26  
Yeah, trying to sort of fill fill a gap really isn't it? That's the thing with retail therapy in particular that you are trying to sort of fill a void some somewhere with your life and sometimes that can't be filled. And I remember that show, you know, of course I see clutter and I see that volume of clutter. You know, most days of my life really, so it never shocks me anymore. And what I remember about you, Sharon is a while ago is that you had lots of very beautiful clothes, lots and lots of them. And I know that you were a TK Maxx addict. Is that Is that fair to say? You love a bargain. And you loved your TK Maxx. And so for our American listeners, I don't know whether there is TK Maxx or you've been to America, I'm sure because you want me to live there. So is the TK Maxx in America?

Unknown Speaker  5:08  
Yeah, it's called TJ Maxx.

Lesley  5:11  
Oh, right. Okay, TJ Maxx. And so we're kind of, you know, beautiful things, but for good prices, that kind of thing, isn't it? So you loved your TK Maxx shops and used to go in there most weeks. And yeah,

Speaker 3  5:21  
I was I was in there to the point where I knew which staff would be on what shift because I was in there every single day. And I couldn't actually afford to be in there. So it was all on a credit card. And then of course, I wasn't paying the bills, because I wasn't opening the letters because they couldn't find them. So I didn't know what was coming through to me. So it was a catalogue of stuff, just getting stress from bills, and then warnings. And then also, you know, when you're having agencies contact you via phone, we're trying to get ahold of you, because your own Pay Bill has been passed on to this debt collection agency. And you're like, wow, I didn't know anything about this. And it's just escalated to that point internally. And then externally, I was going out and still doing the same thing. So I was stuck on this loop. And it literally was an addiction. I mean, I knew exactly what time the stores would be closed for each box. It wasn't just it was made with TK Maxx. Also, at the time, it was it was something that would give me a social outlet. So I wasn't actually really happy, I didn't have a great deal of friends. A lot of my old friends sort of got married, and you know, they they weren't around anymore in the same way. So I felt really lonely. So my entire love and connection to who I was, would come through me buying something to give me a hit and a high. But of course it wouldn't last. And then I'd have to go out and buy another one. Every single day.

Lesley  7:11  
Yeah, so then it becomes a sort of vicious cycle really. And I think you know, the interesting thing about going through the decluttering process. And this is this is quite classic for people who've got a bit of a shopping addiction or a retail therapy addiction is that there's always lots and lots of things that need to go back. So there's lots of returns around. So I remember finding, you know, and quite often we will do that, when we're decluttering, there might be 10 or 12 bags of things that have yet to be returned. And quite often what happens then, is that those things don't get returned. So they absolutely are clutter, and it's a complete waste of money as well. So it's that buying things, but actually not being sure about it as well. So that's a classic sign really of somebody that has got a bit of a retail therapy addiction, which I think it's fair to say that you did have, and I know it was a social thing. Am I right in thinking show that it was something that you used to do with your mom to go out shopping?

Speaker 3  8:03  
Yeah, it was it was a huge part of my childhood. So my father is Irish, and my mother is from the Caribbean. And she was someone that really enjoyed quite a lot of racism, you know, she enjoyed when she first came to this country, she was 20. Yeah, it used to be a case of she would face quite a lot of judgement. So she's a black woman. She has two kids, because it was me and my big brother. And she would ensure on a daily basis, verbally and practically and physically, that me and my brother always looked our best. So that meant literally, we would have brand new Nike Max trainers, we would have brand new adidas trackies at school without the best school bag, the best pens, the best notebooks, we have everything that was ultra expensive, and presented this you have the best in life, which these are no I'm not criticising, I don't think there's anything wrong with that she was an incredible mother and she still is. What that gave me though, was this sense of two things that I always had. I always had to have the best, right? Which is ironic, because I never actually felt comfortable with the best. A little bit like I would buy these things for myself as I got older or I would be given a brand new pair of the latest trainers at school, but I would never feel comfortable with them. So I'd never fully own them. Which is ironic because I'm getting the best but yeah, I would be like Oh, I'd sort of try and drill me down or try and hide whatever was that I had. So a lot of my friends at the time didn't have money. So here I am. I'm the only mixed raced girl in the village, me and my brother, and yet I have all the best things. So a lot of my friends would feel pretty awful. And I would say this now I would immediately try and change the subject, or try and hide what I had. The second thing it gave me was time with my mom. So she was someone that was a very hard working nurse, she would do night shifts. So the only time we get to spend with each other is on a Saturday. And my mom's not a talker. She's a doer, and the talker. But she would, she would say straightaway in the morning, right, let's go, you know, let's get up and let's go out, and we'll go shopping in her Trinidadian accent, because she's from Trinidad, which is an island in the Caribbean. So it meant that I could spend the whole day with my mom. So I would be so happy just to spend time with her. For me shopping was more than the item itself. It was it was a social thing. And it was, if it could speak, it would say, your mum loves you, Cheryl, she does. Because this is what you're doing together. So it would have a profound, it would have a profound comfort. And yeah, and it would always be funny. If I would accept things my mom would buy me that I actually didn't want. I didn't need them. And I didn't want them. And I remember thinking this at like four and five, they didn't really do it for me. But being with me mom did.

Lesley  11:53  
Yeah, I think it's, there's so many really interesting things wrapped up in that really Cheryl, because it's very, very common. So the social thing, you know, with, particularly with girls, and moms is definitely a big thing, that kind of going out. And socially, you know, it's the equivalent of going out and having a glass of wine with your friends, isn't it, you know, something, that's what you do with your mom, which is a really, really lovely thing. But you know, there's an end point to that. And there's a kind of compulsion then to buy something isn't if you go out shopping, you can't just go and window shop. And I think the other thing, you know, which was really interesting, as you're talking about what probably stems from your mom's own insecurities and feeling judged, as somebody that had come over from Trinidad married to a white man, you know, this is this is a while ago now, you know, the times were very different than and, and so she was trying to, you know, peer pressure, really, I guess, wasn't it for her and like, I'm not going to be that person. I'm going to be better than that. And that came from the stuff. And that's really interesting to sort of see that. I think that was that. You know, that was one thing that resonated with me when we actually met was the clothes and how that was wrapped wrapped up into kind of social time with your mom, which is lovely. But yeah, it has an impact and has it has a result, doesn't it really the other thing that I met I remember Cheryl, in terms of volumes, obviously there was paperwork, that was close. And the other thing that I do remember is you're vegan, and there was lots and lots of food, big high volumes of food in your kitchen, which we had to sort of tackle didn't weigh. So what what are your thoughts on you know, from where you've, where you were and where you've come from, and obviously, you're a healthy eater. Food is something that you feel very passionately about. And you know, you want to look after yourself and always did, but the volumes were quite big. So you want to talk a little bit about that.

Speaker 3  13:34  
Yeah, the food, for me has always been a huge battle. It was something growing up, I lived above my dad was a butcher. So my bed was above his butcher shop. And I would spend me you know, my childhood running in and out of his butcher shop screaming at people not to eat what they were gonna buy. I was just creating chaos really. And but then I remember feeling very, very confused about food, just from the way in which what my dad was doing with the butcher shop, but then also, we would have in our house, we'd have these rations, and the mom would get Tupperware boxes. And she'd say to me, brother, you're only having like so many digestive chocolate biscuits. So you only have in so many trios, these little snack bars. My mom was a health and fitness freak. So it was me dad and my brother. I wasn't I was quite an overweight kid. And I couldn't be bothered doing the stuff they did when it was very regime and so my examples of food were either the sort of bloody raw flesh, which was the meat right In the sharp or it was the sort of very, very categorised system of this is how much you can have. And there's no more. So when I grew up, I had a very, very strange relationship with food that just wasn't comfy. By the time I got my house, which was like a few years later, I had this thing where I had to have enough food. And I had to do big weekly shops, and then a monthly shop and then a daily shop, I was always worried about never having enough. Also, I'm vegan, I became vegan in 2003, because they are tumours, I was very sick, and I died to cardiac arrest in hospital, and the tumours are three pounds. And the cardiac arrest died. Remember everything as well what happened to me life change that day was on Valentine's Day. That's another story from when our dad died, I decided that I wanted to live. And that health had to be the way in which I could live and live well, because I was afraid of the tumours coming back. And I was afraid that I would not make a mark on the planet. So I figured the only thing to do both of those things, is to look at what I was eating. However, I went too far, and became obsessed really, with always having, I just had this thing where I had to have food,

Lesley  16:42  
food in, you know, there's so much psychology wrapped up in the amount of stuff that we keep around us. And that's obviously and yours was, you know, it wasn't that you didn't have enough. But it was that it was kind of Russian dormers for a different reason which sounds it's quite interesting as well. But we had to declutter a lot of that food because it was out of date. And that would have been difficult for you to do. But nevertheless, it had to be done. But then obviously, after that, you had a different idea about that. And presumably now your volumes are under control and normal and natural and fit for what you need to do on a on a weekly basis in terms of your eating.

Speaker 3  17:18  
Yeah, they are. And I remember that was one of the most difficult parts of the process was was throwing away food that couldn't be consumed because it felt very immoral. And even though ironically, it couldn't be consumed. But I was I mean, there was food dried food that I had, like that was 10 years out of date or something ridiculous. And it was very sort of it just felt very wasteful. And it was very wasteful. But it was just so habitual. And going through that programme, that system of actually stop and look at what you're doing. Because it became so habitual. It was a case of, I need to go shopping, not what do I need. It was an automatic robotic response of I'm going the Asda, or I'm going to Sainsbury's or whatever, or the local supermarket. And it was throw it in. And I would also be obsessed with three for two or 50% off when I didn't need it.

Lesley  18:26  
I think that was really interesting that psychology share all about that you went shopping, rather than that you needed to shop now that's really good. And I think going, what we did within that is, you know, you were obviously going through a real change in your life, I think at the time that you called me, which is very, very common with people to call, they're like I've had enough, I need to change anything in need to understand why I am doing what I am doing. And I think that there was an opportunity to sit and reflect on your own behaviours. So we're not going to talk about what we did from a decluttering perspective. But what we did was what we what I do with all of my clients, which we so why are you doing that, and it gives you an opportunity then to reflect on your own behaviours, and then to make a change. And I think sometimes you need somebody to kind of sit in and say, Why don't you think about doing it differently? So why are you going shopping every week? Can you make that change? Can you not go to TK Maxx every day? You know, things like that. And I think once you've gone through the process, and you see how cathartic it can be, and how freeing and enlightening it can be, then that's enough to motivate you forwards, I think and you have to go through that process. And for some people, they need somebody right by the side doing that. That was what was really interesting for me, I think we certainly did multiple sessions, three, four or five sessions, something like that. And I remember we obviously with all my clients have an opportunity to chat as well chatting, you know, you and I can both chat, Cheryl. So we did lots of chatting. I know that you were quite unhappy with the job that you were doing. And you had this yearning to be a yoga teacher didn't Yes. So do you want to talk about that?

Speaker 3  19:56  
Yeah, I was. I was very unhappy with the work took the working environment, the job that I had studied, I had a master's degree in an English degree. And I landed on paper, a fantastic job, but I wasn't happy. Underneath all this, I'd always wanted to be a yoga teacher. I've always wanted to help people heal themselves, basically, because it's what I've done with me. And I knew that although everyone's got the power to heal the house, they just have, that's what the body is designed to do. It's incredible. But yet he was out with this with this, the big dream, and I just couldn't really make it happen, you know, I didn't have the space in me house, let alone in my head, to just figure out a way of leaving one lifestyle that was paying, I mean, I had a job that would pay me a salary, guaranteed every month. And I had status with that, because it was a senior manager position. However, I was still really, I just wasn't fulfilled. The Yoga came about because I was able to clear the decks, I was able to say, right, you know, let me strip back and actually see when I say strip, I mean, I mean, of all the stuff literally take off in a way, all of the stuff that is not you, and he's not needed to be able to see the real you. Because you know what, Lesley, I was living under a mask, I was going to work and people would come in how amazing a lot to my outfits. And that gave me such a boss and such a high. And then I was coming back to absolute hell, you know, I mean, there's no other way of describing it. I wasn't living the truth. The things that people were complimenting me on was not the true me. And I realised that when I engaged on in the system, you know, and I started to declutter, that I started to reveal who I really, really was, and the value of who I am. And that was such a painstaking process. Because I've built up a facade within having stuff that it was not easy to let that go. But it had to, because it wasn't me. And as soon as I was able to sort of, grab that, by the hands and run, everything started to fall into place. So things like, as soon as I got more space in your wardrobes and in the kitchen, from chucking out all the old food and selling all the clothes, I got onto a teacher training course for yoga, and I started that, you know, and then within a short space of time, I'd also done some cat counselling course. And I'd also done a nutritional course. So I ended up doing all of the, all of the things that are really, we really wanted to do, putting them all together. And then because I'd managed to do all of the things that we need to do that were really really me. I was like, I can make this work. I can, you know, I can I can try and I got a little bit of a payout from work because jobs would go in and stuff. So they were they were making redundancies and settlements. So I just thought, you know what, jump? Because if not now When? So I did a jumps and everything just seems to align. And I started teaching people how to heal themselves. And in the process, I was healing myself. So yeah, I've got to do it. I got to do my yoga,

Lesley  23:54  
which is fantastic, which is fantastic. And and and since then we've spoken about so there's there is a yogic learn, and this is we'll have to forgive my terminology show. I don't I don't know too much about yoga. But there is a yogic belief that links directly to living harmoniously, isn't that that you talk to me about and you feel that the sort of decluttering and the simplification is definitely part of that. Trying to tell me a little bit about that.

Speaker 3  24:20  
Yeah, so it basically you don't have to go to yoga to be a yogi. And so the another extension of that is, well, why would they want to be a yogic Well, yogi's are kind hearted, loving and prosperous in their nature, and who wouldn't want that? So essentially, we're all we're all born as incredible, magical beings, which is another word for being yoga. So I'm not talking about stretching or flinging. yourself on the mat, I'm just talking about just the basics of being an incredibly powerful human being, making amazing things happen in your life and in others. Now, we in the West have gotten yoga a little bit mixed up. When we say word yoga, we instantly think of a yoga mat, a very pristinely toned body that's very flexible and like a pretzel. But that's not the case. I mean, it's part of it. But the biggest definition of yoga is actually a system of living where it is optimal. So what I mean by that is living your truth. And being who you really are, whether it's in your home, or out and about in your every day when you with your friends, your family, or you're out and about doing your errands. Now in yoga, there's a system that's called the eight limbs of yoga. These eight strands are ways in which you can live your life more effectively and more healthfully. Two of those are directly related to clutter. And the first one is about not being harmful to yourself or others. And this strand, which is one of the limbs is called a ahimsa. And in a ahimsa. It says, look, a Ahimsa means Be kind to yourself and be kind to others. The second one is called a paragraph, aha, a paragraph AHA means non attachment. So it means that throughout a human beings life, that is a constant striving to be not grippy or attached to another thing, or another person or another situation or something that's external to you. Even a concept, even an idea, so don't cling on to anything. And that's called a paragraph Aha.

Lesley  27:17  
And that that's the really interesting part with the, with the clutter and everything, everything that you spoke about at the beginning of the podcast, that's all linked, isn't it, this clinging on that you had to stuff in general, whether it was clothes, whether it was food, whether it was paperwork? So yeah, that's, I think that I find that completely fascinating.

Speaker 3  27:35  
But we very much encourage to have the late is something to have more than what we need to always look good, to always be on trend, to follow fashion, to have all of these things and to be accepted, you know, and that's what we do. And I do it. You know, sometimes we we live in this world where we're constantly chasing, and we will never catch up, because there's always a new version of something when the old version is fine.

Lesley  28:06  
I think the really interesting thing for me, Cheryl, is you know, yoga is on my list of things to do. But I'm talking of the mat for it. But maybe I'll maybe I'll go a little bit further I need to come to If only you were on my doorstep, Cheryl, but you know, but anyway. And I think it's really interesting, too, that the decluttering we know, through through experience that decluttering is a very free and cathartic and lightening process for everybody. And I can say that for everybody. I don't think there's anybody that ever has regrets going through the decluttering process or ever worries about what they've got rid of or anything like that. I think for the most part, it's a very, very positive process for most people. So is there anything else that you'd like to add Cheryl, before we finish off?

Speaker 3  28:52  
And there is there's two things if it's okay. Firstly, I just really, really want to say thank you, I can't thank you enough. I mean, you know, the, the way in which my life transformed, it's just been incredible. And without some sort of system without some sort of approach if it would have been impossible I would not have I would not be living the dream life I'm living in now. And it's something that I can't really just to say thank you doesn't feel enough. I think the thing that was even more than the practical steps so Lesley, was the fact

Speaker 4  29:31  
that what you taught and what you have left with me is still or everything that I learn is still with me today. And because it was taught in such a an unconditional non judgmental way. I was able to break through the shame that I had with the way in which I was living the only me and me alone no the rest of the world or that I was this very together very with it glamorous. little things. And I couldn't tackle that without getting over the shame that I had. I feel quite emotional actually just talking about it now because it really was crippling. And because I was given this way through with everything that was about the decluttering system, it was something that didn't judge me, you know, everything that I was able to learn from what you offered, was really about saying, you're a good person, you know, you're not somebody that has failed, you're not somebody that hasn't made it in life. You're somebody that, you know, is fundamentally, absolutely amazing. How about incorporating this into your day to day, and that was something that I've never felt so bad, I used to just feel like, you know, I would still feel like, oh, you know, crap person, you know, I've not, I don't deserve the nice stuff. And I would really feel wrong. Just say in in the mess, and just really failing to I would do it myself. So when, you know, you came along, the system came along, it was like, you've got a freedom. And you're not, you're not a bad person.

Lesley  31:35  
But that, but that just shows what a journey it wasn't, you know, you've come so far, and you don't need to go back to that place. Cheryl, you know, you've done all the hard work, you're living with the routines, you're living with the system, you're living with less, you know, you've been able to find the life that you want, you're living the life truly the life that you're meant to lead. And that's the thing. And, you know, it's really interesting, because one of the things, you know, just just to sort of finish off now, when when we were working together, I mean, the job that you had, and I know that you were very unhappy in it was kind of almost the perfect job for you, you're working in a you have the kind of well being rolled in for women in a museum. And you know, and so you asked me to come and talk on on a sort of wellbeing programme with four or five other speakers. And, and I did and I remember getting that and it was so and I was excited to be asked a comment a bobbin is the quarter fairy and chat with my kind of little quirks and anecdotes and things like that. And it was quite a heavy programme of things like, you know, the one thing that really resonated with me was there was a talk on female genital mutilation, which is obviously a serious, serious issue. And I was so embarrassed to be the quarter Fair, which is kind of seems so trite on such a serious agenda. But you saw that and you saw how critical it is to people's well being. And you were like nervous as you should not be embarrassed. This deserves its place as much as anything else on that agenda. And I think I think that's when I learned from you how seriously you took it and how big of an impact that you thought that decluttering and simplification has in people's lives. And so a thank you for asking me and that I still remember that to this day and others that you know, I deal with a lot of clients, but you definitely had a real impact on me share Well, for the reasons, then it obviously had a deep impact on you because you're getting emotional now. So hopefully, you're not emotional anymore. Have you stopped now I want to Hi, I want to end on a high because don't go back to that place. Because, you know, you've done a brilliant job. And it's so exciting for me, you know, to be a facilitator for something like that, you know, we're so lucky, the job that we do, we are so lucky to be invited into people's homes, to be able to make that difference and to help people on their journey. You know, this is your journey. It's not ours, but we're just there to facilitate.

Speaker 4  33:57  
Yeah, and this is gonna sound strange. But the tears then that have just come up or unexpected were ones that as the woman I am now I sit here and I look at the woman that I was, and I'm sort of crying for the sadness that was in and the relief like not the whole, like I'm not in that place anymore. And this scene of how far of calm, which is just incredibly powerful. You know, I mean, I'm sitting there, I feel great. I still got tears rolling down my cheeks, but it's more it's more in more in a sort of farewell. So I'm not that woman. But it was it was in recognition as well. But life was just ever so sad because I didn't ask one. And the reason why it was so important for me to invite you on that day, which yes, you know, at the time I was a manager working in human rights, and I was champion in there rights for women. And I was running a conference about female genital mutilation and domestic violence. And we had speakers. And it was important that you were one of those speakers wisely because I've just demonstrated why, you know, many of those men and women, in particular, though, I'd say I'd say women, but I do want to include men to what that agenda was all about, you know, it was the International Women's Day. And there is this shame and this pressure that we are supposed to be domestic goddesses were supposed to be live in pristinely. From vast majority of boards, we've got addictions, to shopping, or hoarding or whatever it is collected. And it is a slow death. And it deserves to be take timetables and platforms just as much as any other abusive or detrimental or degrading situation that one finds themselves in, it cannot be reduced, if he's different. But that does not mean to say It is less. And I wanted as many women in particular because it was international Tuesday, but I wanted women to get the chance for freedom like I did. I mean, my tears then was the seeing a woman that is now free, I am now free. For a long time, I was imprisoned in my own mess. And no one was throwing me rope. And I was like, This is hopeless. What the hell am I gonna do? I can't go anywhere, I can't do anything. And in class for years, no exaggeration. So any system or I keep saying the word system, but that's what it is. For me. It's now a lifestyle for anything that provides a way out of that that is done in your way that is done in yours in a way that looks like your life is incredibly precious. So it deserves to be up there. You deserve to be out there. And it was incredible. And if I remember rightly, as well, there's a standing ovation after you spoke. And there's a lot of women afterwards coming up to you and also coming up to me said thank you so much. You know, I've got a bit of a problem I've met in secret. You know, why should we have to have these things in secret? Why can't we be more open about clearing through the quarter? Why can't we just have conversations and dialogues where Yeah, okay, let's Let's sort this out. Let's let's find out about businesses like yours. And let's do this together instead of half having a little hope down, which is what I was given me so much more than just than just the freedom of being who I am and living the life that I live now.

Lesley  37:51  
Wow, Cheryl, that is so fantastic. I'm going to finish that on such a positive No, I really hope that other people have been inspired by your story. I'm so so happy that I invited you on as a guest I've absolutely love listening to you. I could sit here for hours and hours listening to you. But sadly, sadly it is time to go so share well tell the listeners where they can find a little bit more about you and what you do.

Speaker 4  38:15  
You can find me at spiritual Yogi's dot com. So it's www dot spiritual Yogi's dot com so SP ITUALYOT i s.com. And it's for anyone that wants to heal themselves through yoga, nutrition, counselling and sort of spiritual cleansing and it's done online. So it doesn't matter whereabouts in the world you are if you're sick of being sick, and you want to declutter your body from the inside out and get your ass back. Please drop me a line and say hello, sir. Well, thank

Lesley  38:54  
you so much. It's been brilliant. Loved it. So listeners thank you so much for taking the time to listen today. If you'd like to get more tips and advice, please follow us on social media or on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and have a lively supportive Facebook group community where we chat all things clutter. We'd love to see you there. If you don't want to miss the next week weekly episode, subscribe to the declutter podcast on iTunes, Spotify and Stitcher, and they will pop into your notifications each Friday. See you next time.

Outro  39:30  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The Declutter Hub Podcast. Check out declutterhub.com For more inspiration, and don't forget to tune in next week.
Subscribe now so you don't miss an episode
Listen on
Apple Podcasts
Listen on
Amazon Music
Listen on
Spotify
Watch on
YouTube
Prefer to watch rather than listen? Watch on YouTube