A graphic saying we're 5 years old and celebrating
Episode 309 – The evolution from chaotic to calm

The Declutter Hub membership is 5 years old and whenever there is a milestone birthday that provides an opportunity to reflect on how things have evolved. We’ve learned so much about what people need to change their home from cluttered to clutter free in the last 5 years and would love to share that in this podcast to help you make the breakthrough you deserve.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
The declutter hub membership is five years old. And whenever there's a milestone birthday, it provides an opportunity to reflect on how things have evolved. We've learned so much about what people need to change their home from pages to come in the last five years, and would love to share that today to help you make the breakthrough you deserve.

00:32
You're listening to the declutter Apple podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here are your hosts, Ingrid Jansen, and Lesley Spellman.

00:55
Hello, and welcome, listeners. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Lesley. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find a fun factor in the serious business of decluttering. And if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If

01:15
you'd like to get involved in conversations relating to this podcast, it all takes place in our Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm, supportive community. To find the Facebook group go to declutter hub.com forward slash group to find out more, or you can search for the declutter hub community on Facebook. Well,

01:34
allegedly here we are aware of the balloons and the bunting and

01:42
I know that will be maybe we could just do that what we've learned in the last five years is that we need to drink champagne at opportune moments. Maybe that's it. But anyway, happy birthday, Ingrid happy declutter hub. Versary.

01:54
I know it's a Can you believe it? Lesley, five years of our if we say to ourselves amazing membership, and still going strong?

02:08
I know exactly. I can't believe it, you know, but when we thought about it back in the day, can you imagine we were like, Yeah, let's do something together. Shall we do something together? This sounds like fun. Let's do. Yeah, let's do some choruses and stuff. And there we are with like, this behemoth of a machine. Is that a word? Word? I think that's, I think, exactly say it be him off. Have you heard of that word? I've heard

02:31
that. I've heard that word. But I don't know how to pronounce it that the things that just randomly came

02:36
into my mind. I don't know whether that's an actual word. But that means anyway, is our membership is quite a big machine of contents, isn't it, but lots of other things besides, so we're super proud of it. But I think what we wanted to talk about today was not how amazing our membership is, even though it absolutely is, and we absolutely love it. But it's really what we have learned in the last five years, since we kind of took those first tentative steps into the membership, about what people need what pulls people back, and what we have learned about other people's journeys, because I think in weed, when we were more in the one to one space, you know, working, there was a small amount of clients that we worked with. So although we had a lot of expertise, and probably quite in depth expertise in terms of the doing, what we didn't have was the range of people from all over the world and the range of things that people need to deal with, and particularly learning styles. Because when we're working one to one with people, we kind of people have got different ways of doing things. But when we're trying to teach people, we have to play into people's different styles of learning. And so I think it's about that. And I think we've learned a lot about what makes people tick. And what makes people get over the line from being chaotic, to calm or cluttered to clutter free, whatever you want to call it. And so then that's what we want. We hope that light bulbs go on for people during this podcast about what your life what your decluttering journey has represented and what we hope will represent in the future. And what there is to learn about that. I think that's what today is all about. Right? Yeah, I

04:15
think so. Because I think it's so interesting is that Lesley because you're right, we were both, you know, professional organizers in people's homes and because we liked working together, and we worked in a volunteer capacity for a long time together. And when that kind of we both kind of said, Okay, let's, we've done enough volunteering. We've stuck a lot of hours and time and energy in but we missed working together. And our first thought was, let's write a course and about decluttering because we know so much we've got so much knowledge and expertise. But very quickly we realized that giving information alone is not enough to help all the people that reached out to us for help because of course we you We're in Manchester. I'm in London, we work in people's homes. But more and more people from outside those areas came to us and said, We really like you. We love your message. We like what you're saying, but I'm not where you are. But I still want to work with you. And that's why the where the idea, of course came from, and then we realize, but people need so much more than just a course, a course is not enough.

05:23
Yeah, exactly. And I think we're going to talk a little bit about why, for some people, not for everybody, right, yeah, that we feel a course is not enough. But before we sort of dig into that, let's talk about the fact that, let's face it, there is a lot of decluttering content out there on the internet. So we are not the only ones who are waxing lyrical about how amazing and life changing decluttering can be. There are multiple people across lots of different platforms, whether that's on social media, whether that is you know, various websites that you can go, whether that's podcasts, all the things you use, paper articles, TV programs, radio shows, all of those things of all people are people are interested in decluttering. Because ultimately, many, many people in the world have got a clutter problem. And it's a very real issue for people. So therefore, we get spoken about a lot in lots of different ways. And so certainly, before we get started, what we're not here to say is that our way is the only way because that is not the case at all, there's lots of different ways. And hopefully, we're going to talk a little bit about the different styles of learning and finding the right one for you, and what makes you tick. And it's all about understanding your own behaviors. And so that's what we're here to talk about. So I think, first of all, let's get let's get started talking about this sort of information that's out there on the internet. So we put in the declutter hub, we've got lots of different content, we've got free content, we've got paid content. So ultimately, our free content is things like our Facebook group, our Facebook page, or Instagram reels. And then you know, we've got quizzes, we've got webinars, all of those kinds of things are free content. And that is very important. It was very, very, very important to us. Because one of our big missions Ingrid was that we wanted to make decluttering content available to anybody, we didn't want cost to be prescriptive. Having said that, for us to do our very best work and forgive, to give people the absolute in depth journey that they need. There's a cost associated with creating that content, and we need to pay the bills, right and grip. So yeah, and what are paid content does is allows us then to, to then, you know, invest in free content. Ultimately it doesn't it we can put the podcasts out every week, we can spend all the time on social media, because we have, you know, people paying us in our membership to do so. So let's talk about our own communities. Let's talk about our I mean, I hate to caveat it in the kind of repurpose paid but ultimately, like, that's an easy way to kind of delineate, I guess. So we've got our free Facebook community, which as it stands today, as we're recording, it's got like 45,000 people in it, which we love, by the way, and thank you so much if you're part of our community, and is an incredible, kind, supportive community. So we're super, super proud of that. And never in a million years, did we think that we'd be sitting here with four to 5000 people in that group, all of whom, who got each other's backs, which is what it's all about. And then we've got our membership forum, you know, where, where a smaller, much smaller number of people come together and discuss things in a different web. So what's the difference that Ingrid between the content in the Facebook community and in our membership forum, how is it different?

08:47
I think what you can really see is that in our membership, our members, they've taken on all of our information, they've done a courses that listen to what they've got to say, and you can start seeing that there's like one message, that message that comes out, while the Facebook group, although it's absolutely amazing, and we love it, there's loads of different people commenting on they think is the best way to make make steps and change things or in a membership. People say listen, I mean your membership incredulously you need to tell me how I need to move forward. And that's what we do. We give our bespoke advice on what we think is the best way for our members on a group level but also on an individual level. And there's there for us there's there's always different ways of doing things. But Lesley and I agree on a lot of things, how we think you should best cop to your house and how you can make those steps moving forward. And I think out on the internet and in Facebook groups and everywhere. You can read so many different types of advice that you kind of lose track on, but what's now the best way because people are all saying something differently. If, you know, you'll only have to put something into YouTube and you get 10,000 different videos for the same thing, but everybody says something differently. So how do you then know what is the best way? And Lesley and I, we both believe that what we say after working with 1000s of clients and working in a hundreds of different homes, and that we know what we're talking about. And I'm not trying to be smug here. But I think it's just because we've got so much experience and expertise in what we do.

10:30
Yeah. And I think it's a you know, and there are many, many other people out there who also do the same, but possibly in a different way. So, but the problem for you as a kind of consumer of information is almost that you've got this conflicting advice, and you don't know which lane to go in. And so our advice to you is not necessarily Ingrid and I are the best, even though that may well be the case.

10:55
Joke is

10:57
to find something that resonates with you, and then stick to your lane. Because if you take a little bit from here, and a little bit from there, and a little bit from everywhere, you find yourself flitting from one thing to another, and you're not following something consistently. And that's, that's what you want to kind of avoid. And that's the benefit then of kind of buying into one type of methodology, I guess, isn't it? Yes. So yeah, all the methodologies are amazing to certain types of people aren't methodology would not work for certain people. And although you know, some people but like, let's talk about one that people really know, we know, many, many people know the Comrie methodology that we've and there are so many Comrie, people who absolutely live, eat and breathe that methodology. But that's different to our methodology. And so, and the some of the people in our world are like, Well, I've tried the camera and it's not working. So I'm seeking something else out. And so it's really it's important to kind of find something that works for you and stick to it. I think that's the message. That's the message really, isn't it? Yeah. So yeah. So communities. So first things first, it's all about that's one of the things that we have learned is that by kind of focusing people a little bit inward, trying to niche down a little bit, makes things a little bit clearer to a lot of people, doesn't it? I think

12:17
it's interesting, because we've had so many people in a membership, say, I've tried so many different things. But nothing resonated with me until I came into your world. Maybe via challenge value, the Facebook group, I listened to the podcast, I decided to step it up a notch and commit to the membership and everything you see, really, really make sense to me. And all these things I've tried before. Not that it was bad. But it just the information just didn't go in enough. And now I'm with you guys. I'm like, Oh, yes. And all this puzzle pieces start to fall into place. And I think that's really you know, when you find the right thing for you, it's amazing. And

12:58
the same as before you can find that information, Ingrid, you need to be realistic about what's going to work for you realism is everything you need to be realistic about the stumbling blocks that you have had in the past, and where has it fallen down. So what part of all the programs potentially, or the you know, people that you follow on Instagram or the podcast that will listen to whatever that is because we are well aware that people who love decluttering spread themselves quite wide across. And understandably so because you're trying to find a shoe that fits right? And so but what you need to do in the first instance is you need to, you need to tap into realism and go, what resonates for me, what is successful? Am I stuck in a rut? Am I continually doing the same thing over and over? I'm failing. And we know we don't like to use the word fail or not not getting what I want to achieve, for example. So this might involve something like that. A lot of people in our world because we love clutter stuff. Also love information, rain grid. And so the thought of, for a lot of people, not everybody, the thought of having all the information at their fingertips on how to declutter your bedroom, how to decorate your kitchen. And it'd be nicely systematically work through in a self study version, like a course, is music to their ears, isn't it? Like yeah, love it, just can't wait to dig into those courses and hear everything that you've got to say. But what we find sometimes is that you're looking at all these things. We see this a lot of times when people come in to the membership. There's like a kid in the sweatshirt writing because there's like we've got stuff on everything basically. But what we want to do is we want to focus people we want to take people from learning to take in those light bulb moments and taking those things that they've learned and putting them into action. So it's not enough to learn the stuff. It's not enough to do the education. You have to have a system a structure accountability, action, it's got to lead somewhere, and what and what we see and that and that's the problem. You know, we were talking right at the beginning of the podcast about the difficulty with the courses, our membership is devised out of many courses, but we've got loads of other things on the side. And that's why, ultimately, it's a membership and not a course, right? We got loads of courses, we've got as many courses as you want to do, basically a master classes and all that kind of stuff. But we've also got all the things that mean that you can take those courses, and we've got a surefire way of putting them into action. So honestly, I want to reiterate, this is not about us saying our membership is the best thing. This is about us trying to get you to look at your behaviors and go, How am I best gonna learn? You know, how to declutter my house, it made that well be with us, we would love it to be with us. But it might be something else as well. You know, there might be other systems that resonate with you more. And so how do we then what's the first thing that we do? Ingrid, what what did we learn in those five years? So when we first started out, we had a sister a series of courses, we thought that that's what we would have. Yeah, series of courses. So where did we go from there?

16:08
Yeah, because we just thought, you know, we need to tell everybody, all the things we know. So let's create a course about the kitchen and the bathroom and linen cupboards, and clothes and garages and all of these things, because we thought, we need to share all everything that's in our heads, we're going to put it out and put it in the course. And then the main question that kept coming back from our members was like, we love it. We love the courses. We love the fact that you talk about decluttering, and organizing and storage and donation and all the emotions involved with the clutter. But you need to tell us where we need to get started. Because we have a whole house that we need to do. And we want to do everything because we love information that we love paperwork, and we love learning and we love but now I'm just doing watching all the courses and take pride take it all in. But I'm still blitzing and jumping from one area to the next email. Lesley, can you please tell us in which order I should do my house? And that was kind of I think the big change then for us when we went okay. Lesley, how would you do your house? Ingrid? How would you do your house and we started talking about it together for a very long time, we said we need to create a map, we need to create a place that they need that our members need to follow. And that's where the roadmap came from. We said okay, let's take our members on a road trip. And let's just make stops along the way in which we think is the best order to do your house. Because we don't want people jumping from one thing to the other. Because then you let around which is a term we love to use in the in the in the membership as well. And you jump from one thing to the next, but nothing gets finished and it took get that success. And that buzz from successful decluttering you need to be able to finish a cupboard, a drawer and area a room because then it motivates you to go on. So we did extensive developments in the beginning of our five year membership to go okay, what in our opinion is the best way? Yes, we know sentimental items are hard and need to be done last makes complete sense. But how do you get there and we did an extensive program. We've got two roadmaps now in the membership, one where we go, okay, this is the order of the room she needs to do. But also, you want to maintain the stuff that you've been doing. So we've created the day by day roadmap where we talk about daily things and weekly things and seasonal things, again, in the order, which we think is important. Yeah.

18:47
And so I think having that structure, so in terms of where a lot of people struggle with decluttering, their home is having a defined, tried and tested structure to follow, because you run the risk of, as Ingrid said, flitting from one place to another because all of the things need doing so how do I then work out which one is most important? And actually, sometimes the one that you feel is the most important to you might not be the easiest for you to action. And so it's finding the emotional side of things, marrying that up with the logistical side of things marrying that up with how do I split it down and make it manageable? So it's not just about oh, the kitchen is the most important or the bedrooms most important, we have to look at lots of different components to that and go but how can I execute this in the best most sensible way for me that's going to mean that I don't break down and go crying in a dark corner Do you not mean so it's things like that. Yeah, I think you know, so number one, the first thing that we thought we need to kind of niche down and and follow one you know, find your lane stick to it. Number two, within that lane there needs to be a structure you need to work out how How am I going to do this? And in what order really, really important? So I think it's about being realistic about knowing these things and going, Okay, well, I'm gonna seek that out. So I'm going to seek out a structure because I think we live it and breathe it. We think about this day in, day out, we get feedback day in, day out, we think about our own structure. And we, you know, we talk about this in the context of our own journey, building the declutter hub. So, you know, he says, we've got two robots for a long time, we had one roadmap. Now we've got two roadmaps, because that's the evolution of our business, because we realized we want to split it down. We wanted to put more in there, didn't we in terms of accountability and comms terms of check ins, you know, so our roadmap system has evolved and will continue to evolve as we learn more from other people about what they want. So it's important for you to have that as well. So yeah, realism plays a big part of that, doesn't it? Ingrid? Yes,

20:53
absolutely. Let's see. So why don't we go for a break? And we'll talk more after the break. We'll see you soon. Hi, everyone. Welcome back after the chats. I love talking about how we've evolved over the past five years left. It's like a movie coming by in my head of all the things we've done and talks about and worked on,

21:11
because we're not talking about how we have evolved. Personally, I'm just talking about the membership. Keep it simple. I can't even imagine if we were talking about us as individuals, you know what I

21:24
was, I was gonna say, That's a sign though. Do you still like working with me?

21:29
Jury's out. Jury's out. Let's not go there. We're still error. We're still here. Yeah. So which leads me firmly on to the next point where they wanted to make really, which is about having an open mind. I've got an open mind at the moment, Ingrid. I know you're the right person to work with? No, I think, I think it's really important. When you sort of have a when a certain type of decluttering methodology or a system or even a tip or a hack, or hint, whatever you want to call it wherever, however deep or, you know, it might be a whole process of decluttering your entire home with a roadmap. Or it might be one little hint and tips about how to declutter your knicker drawer. Yeah. So whatever you're looking at, I think it's really important if you are committed to that person to have an open mind about what their suggestions are. And if you have an open mind ago, let me think about that, is that going to work for me? Because I think what one of the things that we have found, and one of the things that we have, sometimes we do spend quite a lot of time at the beginning of people's journeys, trying to convince them to do something different to the way that they've done it potentially before, because old habits die hard, don't the English. So if we've, if we've gone through a sort of a lifetime of launching into decluttering projects over a weekend, and we have had success at times with those decluttering projects, for sure everyone will have success with those projects, but then it starts to slip back. It's hard to change those habits, because that's what you know, isn't it? And so, you know, when we start to say, well actually think about doing things in a different way. Don't go helpful, either on one weekend and do it start to break it down, start to do things in a different order, don't automatically go to what you think is your big problem area first go somewhere more simple. So it's really about having an open mind about different methodology because nine times out of 10, it's done for a reason. There's always exceptions that prove the rule. Of course there are there's always reasons why we need to veer off a pre prescribed structure. Of course there are in our membership, absolutely allow us for that. And you know, to mean, and so but I think it's about just going, Okay, this is something that I'm committed to, I'm going to take a step back, and I'm going to, I'm going to believe I'm going to believe in the system almost, you know, to me, and I'm going to not not do what they say that's not what I'm saying. Because it's your journey, your wage, I mean, but I'm going to try and understand why it is that I need to be doing something different. And I think one of the big things that we saw, we definitely see some people come into the membership, who want to who, you know, they've worked with us listens to podcasts on to a challenge, whatever, like the idea of what we're saying, but still go back to those old habits. And then you know, so one of the big things that we suggest is the roadmap, for example. And what we see repeatedly is people going well don't want to do that. I just want to do my bedroom or whatever. So I'm just going to concentrate on that and kind of ignore the advice which is by me, not advice, not always amazing. And so and then find themselves six months later are going wish I started back there, because I see all these other people having this success, and I feel like I'm still doing the same thing that I did before, which is flitting around and not making the progress that I had hoped to make. So I think it's about having an open mind kind of conceding to things. What do you think I mean, it sounds cool. Seated to say that really to kind of listen to us. But I suppose that's why people commit to us because we are experts. Yeah, like to say that kind of thing. But you know what I mean, we have to concede that we are right, well,

25:15
let's be realistic. lately. We know a thing or two. I mean, we live, eat and breathe decluttering. And organizing has been our profession has been our job has been our passion for for over 15 years. And with that comes a lot of knowledge. But also, I think we're beloved like that, because we want our members to get rid of that clutter. And because we see all the benefits of having less clutter, so we're like, please listen to us, don't do what you've always done. Because you will always get what you've always gotten, you're here in the membership, and you're here in our world, because hopefully, you you enjoy our banter and have fun and our laughter and our but also our our advice and our expertise and our knowledge. And we want you to grow and get everything out of your life as much as you can. Because as far as we know, you know, you can one one go at it, and you know, make the most of it.

26:20
Exactly, I think. And I think as well as that what I want to talk about, and one of the big things that take for some people, not for everybody is to try and convince people that to, to sort of tap into a community of like minded people, is really beneficial. And that can be done in a number of ways. And so we have our membership forum that we mentioned before, we have our Facebook group, which is our big group, you know, 40,000 people in there, we've got a much smaller membership community. And you know, only some of our members will go in there, some people will be quite vocal in there, we'll share a lot of stuff. Some people use it entirely for their own benefit. But it has a knock on effects for the people. So they're doing self accountability, it's more of a kind of bullet journal than it is anything else. Really, it's not necessarily asking for advice. It's just monitoring their own progress and writing down a kind of progress progress log almost. But that in itself is really helpful for the people. So you've got that nice thing where you're helping other people with what you're writing in the forum. But equally, you can get so much great advice, because so many people are at different stages of their journey. So yes, of course, it was an idea in the forum giving advice. And but we give advice in other places as well. But what you get from, from a membership forum is you get people who've trodden in your shoes, and they can say, Oh, I remember when I was doing that three months ago. And these are the things that helped me or this is where what I use in Australia to do whatever, you know, when things like that, it's so powerful. So I think the power of community is something where we encourage people to step out of sight outside their comfort zone a little bit, because let's face it, some people love a forum. And some people don't, some people contribute daily or hourly to a forum and love to share and to get feedback from other people. And some people are like, No, I'm very private. And that's not what I want to do. Some people look and read, but never contribute. And all those things are possible. But our suggestion is at least go and look because there's so much gold dust in there and grid in terms of learning from other people.

28:27
I think for me as well, the main thing is, Lesley, that what we hear so many times, and you see it in the Facebook group, but it's it's big, you know, it's vibrant, it's big, but especially in our membership, when people start to kind of get to know each other a little bit, you see kind of, I would say the truth comes out. But that sounds wrong. But it's more like, wow, I thought I was the only one with this problem. I felt so alone, I felt that I was struggling by myself. And nobody else understood exactly what I was going through. And once you start to be in a group of like minded people, and people start to share and be a little bit more open and go, I feel so much better. It's almost like a bit of a weight lifted from everybody's shoulders and hearts, they can kind of go, actually, I feel so much happier that I've told somebody else or thank you for sharing that information with with the group because I'm feeling exactly the same way or yes, that's my problem, too. Or, while I'm so happy for you that worked for you. I'm gonna try this as well. And it's those kind of in the beginning, you can't see those. How do I would I call it those? Almost like the threads between groups of people you can't see but over time they become more visible, and it becomes a bond between people. And lots of people have done lots of decluttering and learning in our membership but loads of people also stay because of the amazing community because of the friendships that are created. But even not the Sometimes friendships is needed, but just the understanding of somebody else, and feeling part of something bigger. Am I explaining that correct? Absolutely,

30:09
absolutely. And I think, you know, the the difference between, I think, because it's a private community. And of course, our Facebook group is also private, but it feels a little bit less private, right? Because it's so many people in there. And so I think that you can open up a little bit more, you can say, that can be a thread of things. That's why our membership industry is not done on Facebook, it's done externally, because we can keep things within a thread, whereas Facebook, you know, it's got an algorithm when it's different, and all that kind of stuff. And so, you know, Facebook is brilliant, if you need instant gratification from people, or instant answers from people from a lot of people with a lot of different ideas. So if as an ideas forum, it's fantastic. If you just want somebody out when we have, that's when Facebook is brilliant, isn't it? The Facebook group is like, Can anybody give me some ideas about what I might do for storage, and you're gonna get, you know, 20 3040 people saying, I've done this, I've done that, and it's brilliant for ideas. Whereas in terms of sharing, and validation, I think that's where the membership forum community comes in. And I think, you know, just jumping back to what we were talking about, which is all about having an open mind, I think that's something that often we need to try and convince people is a good a good tool, you know, it doesn't, you don't need to have it, but it is an additional tool, which is what makes a membership, different to a course and self study, it takes it from an isolated journey into something that feels as you say, something a little bit bigger, where it's more of a movement towards clutter free living, rather than just you trying to tread that path on your own. And I think that's so important for a lot of people, not for everybody. And I think the nice thing about the membership, Ingrid is that we have lots of different things that come together, and people choose which one works for them. And so we want to open up the possibilities of using all of them. And we certainly got some people use all of the different, you know, strategies that we have and methodology and what have you. And we've got some people who use one a couple, there were some people who just literally do the roadmap, and we never see them in a q&a or, you know, or the forum or anything, but they've loved it. And then, you know, once they leave us, they're like, it was amazing. And so it's they're not quite as visible as other people. And so you do you, but there are options around which I think can be bundled together to make a really kind of successful decluttering journey, right?

32:37
Yeah, absolutely. And I think what we also have really realized over the over the last couple of years is how important it is to have accountability and to have support and motivation and action. Because like we said, like I said before the beginning it was all about us trying to get our information out. But we realized information alone is not enough. You need to have somebody that goes Come, let's do it together. Let's work together. Tell us what you're working on. How are you doing? What's What's your focus this month? Where do you want to go? What are your points of of focus that you you want to pinpoint? What are the actions that you're going to do? And how did you checking in halfway through the month? How are you doing? And at the end of the month? How did it go? Did you do stuff on your list, and you need to move some stuff board or did something else come up that you were doing? So I think especially that accountability and action, and that's something that's really, really important in our membership? I think that's what we should really kind of grown over the last five years, hasn't it?

33:40
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, we've got lots of opportunities for those for that accountability and action really, with our success sessions and our accountability thread. I think one of the big things, things that I wanted to talk about Ingrid was pacing, I want to talk about pacing, because some of the things that we've talked about it, it can probably feel like wow, that is a lot of work to be done. I mean, like if you think about the courses that we've got on the quick wins and success sessions, you got to talk about a forum. Some people are like, whoa, that's way too much. And, and I kind of get that. And so the and that's the nice thing about sort of membership model is, is that you can do that however you want. So that the kinds of things that Ingrid is talking about, and I think this this counts for however you do your decluttering journey, you know whether it's inside of membership or outside, think about the pacing of it. So there are some people who are going to go for it and go you know what, I've got a three month window and I'm going to go from completely cluttered to clutter free in that three month window and I'm going to commit time and energy daily three times a week, whatever that you know. So this is going to be my focus for three months and I want to get it done. I want to get it done and dusted and there were other people who that was scare the living daylights out after think that they had to commit on work on their home every single day. They're like, Well what about my other stuff? I've got a job and I've got kids to look after I've got you know, health issues. I've got all On number of things I can't be doing, and neither do I want to do decluttering every day. So the membership is designed for people to go at their own pace. And so whilst all these things are available, and we do have some people who commit to decluttering, all of the time that that, you know, while they're that they're always constantly doing something, that journey has been done at a pace that suits them. And I think that's so important, because there's no reason why you should do something in a month, if you can do it in a year, you're not I mean, like you just need to do whatever suits us. I think pacing is so important. That's one of the things that we have learned that we will never be prescriptive to somebody about how long it's going to take, if somebody wants to join us for a month and feels that they can get everything that they need to get out of the decluttering journey in a month, then that's absolutely fine. We don't necessarily think that it's going to be the best, most successful decluttering journey, because we think there needs to be time to evaluate, to think to reflect to fine tune, and things like that. But equally different people are different, are there like some people can get through concepts very quickly. So people need to take it more at their own pace.

36:10
I think for us, literally, the ultimate aim is that we really want a mindset change with people, right? I mean, we don't want it to be all about the stuff we want, for people to go, I've actually really changed how I feel about my stuff, and how I feel about my home and how I live my life and our how my actions have a better impact on the environment, or how I can finally now work on my financial issues because I have a far better understanding about my clutter and what comes in and, and I all of it all of the above, you know, so I think that's our, one of our ultimate goals. And we didn't know this five years ago, right? And we were like, Let's just help people decluttering. But I think what we've seen is like, wow, people really have a change of, of mindset and how they view the world and how they view their everything and how important it is and how important kindness is to yourself, not only to others, but also to yourself. And that you, you know, you learn to think of, but what is it that I want? What's important to me? How do I want to feel in my time? And how am I going to do this? You

37:25
know, one of the big things that I that I really have seen in this last five years, and whether that's people who come to us, or whether that's people that we've worked with in our business journey, I think it's so important to do your due diligence about the people that you want to work with. And I mean that and this, you know, do your due diligence about Ingrid and I, we need to do our due diligence about some of the people that we've worked with the undoubtedly in that five years, there have been people that we've worked with where we've got it wrong, where we have not where we've believed the hype, and we have not done our own due diligence to work out whether or not those people are the right people for us to work with. Ultimately, what we've learned in the last five years is people need the expertise. But they need to completely resonate with us and they need to be the right personality type for us. Ryan grit. Yeah. You know, that's what we've learned in the last five years, we've, you know, we've not made too many mistakes, because we are we do do our due diligence about people. But there are some people that we've worked with, well, that that didn't work, and we kind of went on another person's recommendation that was like somebody else may resonate with somebody else, not you. And so you need to, you know, and we absolutely, we provide many opportunities for people to do due diligence with us, we need to make sure we want people to make sure that if they come into our membership, that then then the money that they're spending is being spent in the right way. Because we want people to succeed. We don't want people to waste their money. And so it's important for you to do your due diligence. How do you do that? How do people do that with us? We've got our free challenge. And we do five days of content, which is, you know, all about decluttering. People can, you know, see how we're Ingrid and I interact. And what you see on the podcast, what you see on the challenges is kind of what we're lacking the membership. And so, you Pete, we have a trial. So we often offer a two week trial from time to time that people come in and actually look at the membership and decide whether or not that's something that they want to do. And so there's loads of places where people can work out what makes us tick on whether we are the right people to work with you. And I think personality and style. And realism is so important. So that would be my final piece of information and what we have learned in our five years and what other people have learned is make sure it's the right person to work with and that you like them. And that means that people we do we know that people don't resonate with us. 100% You know, I mean, we're not for everybody, but we are for a lot of people and getting the right people into it. membership is so important for us. Getting the right people into our Facebook group is so important to us getting the right people listening to our podcast is important to us. Because we want to make a difference. And so it's really important to work that out. So do your due diligence and make sure before you commit to the kind of sticking to one lane that we spoke about right at the beginning of the podcast, that it's the right thing for you and your journey.

40:21
Yeah, I know, I think you know what, if you find a person that you like, you want to do the work because you want to hang out with them, you want to listen to them, you, you know, you want to go on that, that road trip with them and kind of go actually, I'm on board for this. I'm all in. And I think when you start to do that, you start and you start to see the positive changes happening. You're like, Ah, I know what these girls are all about. And I can see where they're going with this. And I feel like I'm, I'm on I'm on the wagon, I'm here, I'm on board for this, and I want to do this and I want to change and I want all of the lovely things that they say are possible, when you basically have less clutter in your house. And that's that's what we want for you as well. We want you to be happy. We want you to make the most out of it. We want you to enjoy live and do all the things that you want to do and spend time with the people that you love. And once you're no longer bogged down by that clutter and that overwhelm it really you can make such major changes, which is just wonderful. And it's it's been a roller coaster ride, Lesley, five years of the membership, we absolutely love it. We always think of new things that we want to do and add and change and we're always working on some projects. But how fabulous has it been? And we just want to say to all of the members who are currently in our membership have been in our membership. We thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts for trusting us to take you by the hand and go. Let's do it. Let's do it together. And I'm going to stop now before I'm going to cry Lesley.

42:03
Definitely. So happy member of it. What is it? How many of us cry and she's Yeah, no, look what you what is wrong with you? Why are you crying again?

42:14
I know I'm happy that I have to cry.

42:20
Honestly, she's like a basket case this one. Anyway, so happy lumpsum you have no idea about the amount of tears I have to deal with. Mostly happy tears, thankfully, isn't a lot of tears. Ingrid. A lot of tears. Lot of happy tears. Yeah. So that's part of my five year evolution is to get on board with Ingrid crying every five minutes when she feels happy. But on that note, we will move. Thank you so much for listening to us. And we will see you all

42:50
soon. See you soon. Thanks for being here.

42:57
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hop podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode. And we'll see you next week.
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Episode 309 – The evolution from chaotic to calm

Episode 393 – How a Clutter-Free Home Strengthens Relationships – A Valentine’s special

Episode 392 – The clutter advice I’d give my 30-year-old self

Episode 391 – Hosting kids’ parties without clutter

Episode 390 – 10 changes that make the biggest impact in your home

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