A photo of Tracy McCubbin smiling into camera
Episode 356 – The 7 clutter blocks with Tracy McCubbin

We are so delighted to welcome Los Angeles based Tracy McCubbin onto the podcast. We have always loved Tracy’s friendly, relatable and emotions based decluttering content so we couldn’t be happier that she is joining us on the podcast today to talk us through how she became a Professional Organiser, and CEO of dClutterfly and of course to share some snippets of her decluttering wisdom including her 7 clutter blocks.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
It's Ingrid and Lesley Go Global week, and to celebrate the publication of the print version of our book, reset your home, we've invited some incredible organizers from other parts of the world today. I am so delighted to welcome Los Angeles based Tracy McCubbin onto the podcast Ingrid. And I have always, always loved Tracey's friendly, relatable and emotions based decluttering context. So we could not be happier that she's joining us on the podcast today to talk us through how she became a professional organizer and CEO of declutter fly and of course, to share some snippets of her decluttering wisdom. 

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music

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you're listening to the declutter hub podcast bringing you tried and tested no nonsense, tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here's your host, Lesley Spellman.

01:02
You Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Lesley. We're delighted you're here to join us as part of your decluttering journey. So whether you're brand new today or have been listening for ages, we want to say thank you so much for being here. It means so much to Ingrid and I that you turn up every week to listen to and support us while we talk all things decluttering and organizing. We'd love to help more people with their quest for a clutter free home. And our podcast is a fantastic way for people to be inspired to take action. We have a favor to ask. If you like what you hear, be sure to hit the follow, subscribe or like button on your podcast player, share us with your friends, or share your thoughts on the podcast by leaving a review. Tracy. Tracy trache, welcome so much to the declutter podcast. I am absolutely delighted that you are here. I'm so excited to be here. I am a reverse fan of you all. Also, I luckily got an advanced copy of your book, and I just dove in. And there's so much alignment. And I'm really I just love this kind of, you know, I think we've all myself and you all have been organizers for a long time, right? We're sort of the, a little bit the old guard, and I just love that there's this movement to acknowledge the emotional part of the decluttering, that it's not just Instagram, and put pretty things in pretty boxes with pretty labels. So I think this is going to be a fantastic conversation for your listeners. Exactly. It's just, it's just so nice when we're talking, as you say, to an organizer who's exactly on the same page, because, you know, it's interesting. We actually did a radio interview yesterday, and we were trying to sort of, you know, explain about emotions based decluttering. And some people just think that sentimental items. I'm like, No, it's more than just sentimental items. This is about every single thing that you have in your home has some kind of emotion attached to it. And so it's not just about sentimental things. And so it can be hard to get that message across. But I know the content that you provide, the content that we provide, you've got two books yourself, which I'm sure we'll talk about later, is all about the emotions that sit behind the clutter. And I feel like we're trying to bang that drum together to get that point across.

03:18
Yeah, and I think for people who get stuck. And that was one of the things that jumped out about your book, and something that I talk about, that if you find yourself in this cycle of trying to declutter over and over and over again and you can't do it, that's the light bulb to be like, Oh, this just isn't about letting the stuff go. And why am I stuck? And you know, I always feel like I think people who are out there and who are really struggling with clutter feel very alone, and they feel very ashamed. And why can't I just do this? And so any tool that you can put in your toolbox to help you, and sometimes somebody says something in a way that just turns on a light bulb for you. And so I'm I just love this movement and decluttering right now, you know? I mean, of course, I like to watch the pretty bins with the pretty labels, but, you know, I've worked with clients for 18 years, and that's not real life, you know. So what can we do to help people, especially when people are dealing with empty nesting, or their parent, parents aging, or kids? You know, there's so much on our plate. So I think when we get to the root of what's really happening, that's when the success comes absolutely and I think it all starts, doesn't it? Tracy, with that self awareness, and if people like you and Ingrid and I can say, this is okay, this is what a lot of people feel. It starts with that self awareness, that kindness to yourself, that understanding that we can't all be good at everything, and that actually, once we understand ourselves and the emotions that sit behind the clutter, that's when we can start to make that visible progress, slowly but surely, because we can be forgiven, can't we, for seeing everything out there on social media, on TV. You know, it's all the different programs that are out there and thinking that it's easy.

05:00
And thinking that everybody can attain the kind of Bin lifestyle, let's call it out there with the labels and everything, and that's fantastic. And no one's saying that's not, not a great thing if that's what makes you tick. But sometimes it can take a while to get there, and we feel kind of less of a person if we're not there straight away. Now tell me, Tracy, how did you come to be an organizer? You know, we've already said we're like old school. You know, not gonna say old gonna say old school. We'd be old school, I know. So it's funny. I like to say I was an accidental entrepreneur. I was working as a personal assistant and in the television business, and we would have hiatuses every couple months or so. And so people would call when you're an assistant, you can do anything. So people would call me and say, Hey, I my business failed, and I've got all this paperwork, and I know you're not working right now. Can you come and help me? And so I started, you know, can you get my Christmas decorations organized, or help me wrap my presents, or all sorts of things, and and I loved it. And I didn't even know, I mean, this was, I mean, this is how old school I am, and this was, like, 2005 2006 I didn't even know organizing was a job. You know, there was Julie Morgenstern was out there, and some of those people. But so I started doing and I kind of thought of myself more as a gal Friday or assistant. And and then I just got, I loved it, and people were giving my name around, and it was, you know, more jobs were coming in and more jobs were coming in. And I was on a trip with a friend, and we were, you know, just talking in the car as you're driving to the next thing, and I was kind of telling him what I was doing, and, you know, these jobs, and he's like, Well, it sounds like you have a business. And I was like, Oh, this is just what I do to help people. And he said, Yeah, that's called a business. You help people, and you're paid for it. So I decided to, like, give it a go, and I made a little website and my little flip phone, and I put the word out, and it blew up immediately. And really early on, I had a real understanding of the emotional part, because I had grown up around my grandparents. So my grandmother had immigrated from Scotland in 1911 so she had been through the Depression and World War, you know, World War One and World War Two and and an immigrant. And, you know, I like to say my grandmother never met a yogurt container. She didn't love and other grandparents were farmers, so they they had that mentality. So I was really generationally trained to save. And then my my father has extreme hoarding disorder, so I had grown up around that. So I think that that my experience of understanding the sort of generational trauma around stuff made me go into people's homes not judging. The goal was never to make it perfect. The goal was to make it work for them. And I think for whatever reason, the Zeitgeist and Marie condos book had just come out, and I got so many calls for people that were like, This doesn't work for me. Am I broken like this? This her way doesn't work. And I knew that there had to be another people needed another way of looking at it. So I started working with clients. Slowly added people to my team, and then started speaking, and kind of came up with this idea really similar to your clutter personalities, of what I call them, the clutter blocks. So these stories, these narratives that we write about our stuff and why we can't let it go. And I think that for people who are struggling when they see a clutter block or a clutter personality, and they go, Oh, I'm not alone. I'm not it's not just me. And they see themselves written on a page, and they understand how real it is. It's like the first step to self awareness and cracking through. And so from there, the book came, and the company grew. I have 12 organizers working for me now, and we've just launched it as a franchise in the United States. So if anybody's out there that wants, that's in the United States and is interested, reach out. But it's really exciting. And I again, I can't underscore, I just think this acknowledgement of the emotional component is kind of changing everything for people absolutely, absolutely we're going to come back. Of course we are to the clutter blocks. But before we do, I want to ask you about your experience then, as the child of a hoarder, so obviously it gave you that kind of empathy, that non judgment, that's so important. But how did you feel, and what did you learn from that? So it's interesting. I had an uncle. I had a little Scottish uncle who also had it. So it was sort of genetic in our family. But really, we just were like, Oh, they're eccentric, or they're a pack rat. You know, there was no words for it. And it wasn't until probably the late 90s that it.

10:00
It really got acknowledged as a disorder. And so I think for a long time, my family just was like, Oh, this is just the way it is, or he's making this choice. And I really had to educate myself that it is truly a disorder and that it's, you know, that there that it these people don't have control. It's a bit like alcoholism or anxiety, and, you know, it's been a struggle. I mean, I think sometimes I started my business because I couldn't help my father, so I help other people. You know, it's, it's tough. It's a really, really tough disorder. And if anybody out there is listening and they think they have it, or they someone they love has it. There's a lot of amazing resources. And, you know, cognitive behavior therapy helps. There's some great books like, please understand and get mental health help with it, because it's really not something you should be going through alone, absolutely. And people live that in a very secretive way, often as well, and so and don't reach out for that help that they need, and it's there, and people are much more understanding, or some people are much more understanding than they used to be, as awareness grows. So let's jump into the clutter blocks, because I'm really, really interested, because you lay it out so well for people, and I know that it's going to resonate so well with our audience. So let's get started on the clutter blocks. Tracy, yeah, so the clutter blocks are, are basically like I said. They're this narrative that we tell ourselves about why we can't let go of the things we don't want, need and use. You know, I like to say that humans are meaning making machines, right? You get pooped on by a bird, and you say it's good luck, or you rains on your wedding day and you're going to get pregnant within a year. You know, we make up all this meaning. So when stuff comes into our house, it has no meaning. It's just a thing, and then we impart all this me, oh, well, my granny gave that to me, and how could I let go of it? Or I paid a lot of money for it, I'm going to use it. And so all of a sudden these stories just start building and building and building. And this object carries this great weight. So clear blocks are everything from my stuff keeps me stuck in the past, you know? So this is, I like, the simple one is clothes, I don't know about you, and if you have gravity over in the UK, but clothes do not fit me the way they used to.

12:28
I'm like, there are parts of my body that are in just a completely different place, and I have no control over that, you know. And so I see people hanging on to why I used to wear this, and I'm gonna fight to get back in it. And really, you know, kind of looking to the person they used to be. Or, you know, you go into a client's house and their kids room is a museum to their kid, and their kids 40 now, and has their own kids. And so it's really about

12:57
telling yourself that your best days were behind you, you know, and looking backwards instead of what's my life right now. Who am I in the world today? And is my house and my stuff serving me? So that's my stuff keeps me stuck in the past.

13:14
There is my clutter block which is, which is

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paperwork,

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which is right, which is exactly like the stuff about being an adult. I do not like to read my emails, I do not like to open mail, right? And that paperwork, that paperwork, just that idea of being a grown up and how your paperwork becomes your clutter and that you just have to deal with it. There's my stuff tells me who I am, which is my shoppers, the people who like designer labels. And also on the flip side of that, the bargain hunters, yeah, right. Like, that's almost just as powerful as the designer labels, the people who are like, I got this on sale, or I got this at the dollar store. I, you know, I can find a deal. And the people who over shop, because they are always looking for something. So it's a really, that's a really interesting one, where they are looking for validation about who they are in what they buy. And that, that one always, really, to me, comes down to kind of loneliness. You know that you're that you're filling your time with an activity, or you're getting that dopamine hit from the shopping. Have I was talking, I was at a speaking engagement one time, and a woman said to me she was in very stressful job. She was dealing with her aging mother, and she said, every day after work, I go to Marshalls, which is, I don't know if you have it, but it's like a discount clothing store, and she's like, and I just, I get in there and like, I'm just on the sale rack, and then cook of the hangers just calms me down. And then I leave with a bag, and it's never more than 20, $30 but I have a room in my house full of, like, three.

15:00
100 of those bags, you know? And it was just using this shopping for for relief, but it wasn't giving her relief, because she had a whole room in her house full of things that she couldn't use. Well, I think this stuff becomes a comfort, doesn't it? For a lot of people, it's a comforting thing. It's something we do as a habit. Is something we do socially. And so that lady's obviously doing that socially as well child therapy, right? Talk about that. We need a girlfriend, and let's go shopping. And it's just, it's just breaking that cycle isn't and it's a hard cycle to break for a lot of people, because for some people, it's the time that they spend with their daughters, with their mums, with their best friends. And, you know, to kind of break that narrative for two people, or to tell the other person that you don't want to do that anymore and you'd rather just go for a coffee. You know, it almost seems as if you being a bit mean, really. But the the stuff, of course, is a comfort, and, you know, it's something that we we do all the time on repeat until, it's not until you get like, you say to that lady who's got 300 of those backs, and then you're like, What am I doing with this? And how do I break that cycle, and how do I, how do I jump out of it? So it's hard, isn't it? Retail therapy is a really hard one. And I know I want to talk a little bit later, actually, about you've got a lot to say, haven't you, about acquisition and things like that. So I'm going to come back to that. And I think what you're saying too is that the stuff, or the stuff becomes the comfort. And, you know, to me, it's, I would say to clients, like it's that when you've had that bad day and you find yourself eating that third cookie or that third glass of wine, you know, the thing that you do, and understanding that that's the same thing with the stuff, that we're in discomfort about something, and so we are looking for something to take us out of the discomfort. And sometimes you just need to sit in the discomfort and be like, I had a bad day, and I don't need to go buy something to take myself out of it. And I do think that, I think that changing those behaviors is really interesting, right? Like to say to a friend instead of, oh, let's meet at the mall and do some shopping, it's like, let's just have a coffee or take a walk. And then we're like, you know, I think it takes them again. We're going to go back to this, and I think this is going to come up again and again. It takes some real self awareness. It does. And it takes time, you know, we were doing our member live Q and A last night, and when the question was about, you know, how do I get out of the, you know, the lack of time, like a focus, procrastination, and we're like, it's a really difficult question, because it's like, everything you've got to do, every all of the strategies that are there, but really it boils down to the fact that you've got to want the outcome more than you want the stuff and so, but you only get to that point when you start to see the results, and so you can visualize where you want to be, but until you get those results, then you're not going to see it as a real positive. It just it becomes this overwhelming thing that you feel like you're never, ever going to achieve. And that's why we like to break things down to really small, like a drawer or a room, whichever works for you, because then you can go, Oh, I did that. And I love what this represents to me in terms of time, saving money, saving the way it looks, whatever that is, you almost need to it's, it's results driven. But we, we're asking people to kind of visualize the outcome, and it's hard, you know, so to break that kind of acquisition cycle is, is really tough, and that kind of comes later, once you've seen the results of decluttering in your home, for sure, absolutely. And the thing I always tell people is, they're like, When do when is it a problem? You know, because it's, it's a different scale for everybody. And I always say, if you feel like your stuff owns you and you don't own your stuff, that's when it's a problem. When you feel like you are beholden to your stuff, and you have to clean off your bed to sleep in it at night, or you can't get, you know, if you're moving your stuff around the house to do what you need to do, that's when it's a problem and and exactly that that you you know that it's, I it's going to get worse before it gets better, and it's it's going to be down the Road. But if you can visualize, what do you want? Do you want, you know, to get dressed in the morning without having to, like, try a bunch of things on and then throw them on the floor because they don't fit. Or you want to be able to get the kids out the door and find their homework, like, what's the goal? And when you focus on the goal, then you're going to keep getting there. And then once you, like you said, You do one drawer. I mean, sometimes with clients, they'll do one drawer, and they'll be like, This is so fantastic. I know where everything is. I want to do more, right? So starting small is always the best way. And I think, you know, in the context of decluttering again, you know, we see so much, and people think about it as the stuff. Think about putting stuff into bin bags and cutting it away at the end of the day. And it can be so difficult then to say, before you do all that, you've got to sit down and you've got to plan. It's like, don't want to plan. Want to get my bin back, want to get the stuff out. Don't want to do any planning. We're like, you've got to do the planning. Like any project. You need to do the planning.

20:00
At the beginning. So it's not what people want to hear. So most of our job, and yours, your job as well, Tracy is and it's, you know, when you go in as a professional organizer into people's homes, it's, it's a little bit, you can kind of coach people a little bit in that way, and you can kind of frame it in that way. When we're trying to teach people online, it's a little bit difficult because they just want to get stuck in and we're like, it's going to be so much better if you just give it that little 1015, minutes thought at the beginning of the session. So So, so interesting. We're going to know, and I will say this, I have so much respect for people who do it, either with a course, like yours or my book, like it's so much harder. And when, when you see those before and afters, and people DM me on social media and be like, I followed your videos and I got this done. I mean, I'm like, That is amazing. Like you don't you know when, when we, as professional organizers, show up and we hold your hand and we do the thing, but to do that work on your own and to stay focused and get it done, I have so much admiration and respect, because it is a lot harder than you know, having someone working alongside you. So I think, you know, using a course like yours, or using a book, really, you really gotta pat yourself on the back because you're doing hard work. Absolutely, absolutely, um, we're going to pop to a little break Tracy, and then we're going to come back and we're going to continue talking about these wonderful clutter blocks. Hi everybody. Welcome back after the break. We're here with the lovely Tracy McCubbin from declutter fly, who's talking us through her experience of being a professional organizer, and in particular, her seven clutter blocks. So strap yourself in, because this is fantastic. So Tracy, let's go to number four, all right, clutter block number four, my fantasy stuff for my fantasy life. This is one of my favorite clutter blocks. This is buying all the stuff for the life that you think you live instead of the life you're living. So you take up a new hobby, you know, you take up a new sport you think you're gonna be a person. I mean, for me, I give this example, you know, every once in a while, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna go out get some running shoes, and I'm gonna get the tight running pants, and I'm gonna get the camel back, and then I have to remember, I hate to run. I don't like to run. It's not my exercise. I like to walk. I like to swim. There's plenty of exercise I like. I don't like, you know, but I think you read some article and like, I need to become a runner, right? So it's understanding that you are okay who you are. And we get so caught up in thinking who we should be, and we fantasize about it. And this is the one, this is the one that people just buy so much stuff around, you know, I see this a lot with crafters, people who are big crafters that they, you know, say they love to needlepoint, and then they decide that they should also knit, and they should also crochet, and they should also applique. And so they buy everything because they fantasize that there are more hours in the day than there actually are. So it's really being honest about the life that you're living now and what you enjoy. And by the way, it's okay if there are things that you don't enjoy, you don't have to do everything. And I think a lot of times as women, especially for sort of the ones that are running the household, that we think we have to do everything, you know, I think we think, Well, I've gotta bake the bread too. And it's like, you know what? I don't have time to do bake the bread. I'd love to be the woman that bakes the bread, but I don't, and we have a lovely bakery that we can go and buy the bread, and that's okay. And I just full confession, got rid of a bread maker in my garage because I fantasized that I was going to become a bread maker, and I'm not. And you know what? That's okay? Yeah, of course it is. And even as professional organizers, we fall foul of, you know, you call it your fantasy life. We call it aspirational clutter. Same principle, you know, all of those things, a lot of them, are crafting, like you say, nutritional things, as well, sports things, all of those things fall into that category, and it's okay to let those things go, to reevaluate and go, I wanted to be that person. There's no problem with wanting to try something. But then the reality kicks in and go, actually, this is just cluttering up my life and making me feel guilty because I'm not doing it anymore. So let me let that go from my life so and I think really, also when going back, and I love this idea about aspirational clutter, and I think going back to letting go of it and going and that's okay, I'm still a lovely person if I don't bake my own bread, or so my own clothes, or, you know, really understanding, because we're so quick. And I really do think this is a trait a lot more with women to beat ourselves up if we are not doing everything, and it's like, it's okay, it's really okay. Yeah, I think social media plays a big part in that.

24:55
I mean, social media is fantastic for so many things, but it.

25:00
Because it presents a fantasy life in front of us, doesn't it, with celebrities, with crafters and all that kind of stuff. And luckily, there are people out there that are putting the kind of the Insta versus reality stuff on there as well. And so we are seeing that realistic side of life coming through, which is great because there's a kind of kick back against this perfection side of things, but it plays a big part, because these things are going in all the time. We need to do this. We need to do this be better, you know, and all that. And so we can be forgiven for falling foul of these things. And so it's nice to find a channel that keeps things real. And that's honestly Tracy. What I love about your content is you always, always keep it real. So if you're not following Tracy already, then you definitely need to do so, because everything that she puts out, I absolutely love, oh, that's amazing. Yes, I agree with you, and I, you know, and that's why I try and put, like, I try and post about my own struggles. Because even, you know, even as a professional organizer who does all this, I have my own struggles. And we're, you know, it's just, we're all trying to do the best we can, and I think the more that we can share that, and the more that we can support that, the more successful everybody's going to be. Yeah, definitely. It's definitely a case quite often in our world of do as we say and not as we do, not in a kind of prescriptive way. I was just telling our members last night that I've managed finally to get my 30 year old son's stuff out of the house. I'm like, yeah, you definitely need to tell this non negotiable, tell them to let it go. And I'm like, Luke, it's time. It's time. Like, keep on going on. You know, it's like, eight years now, it's time. And so people like, oh, have you got that as well? And you're talking about the bread maker. You know, we fall foul of these things as well, because we have the same emotions as everybody else and but we just recognize them, and can try as hard as we can to move move on from them. So next clutter block, I'm excited. Yeah, this is one of my favorite blocks. Clutter block number five is, I'm not worth my good stuff. So this is one of the services that my company offers is we do estate decluttering. So we'll go in and help families after somebody's passed away. And we find so many things in houses that have never been used, beautiful china, you know, candles that haven't been burned. I don't know if anybody out there has bought a candle lately. They are expensive, right? And and blouses and clothes with tags on it, and it's just this idea that people have all this beautiful stuff and they're saving it for a special occasion. And, I mean, if the pandemic taught us anything, you know, every day is special, right? So wear that blouse, put the pizza on the China, and the world has changed so much. I mean, I don't know about for you, but my granny, you know, she had China, and she set it out through, you know, Easter, Christmas and Thanksgiving, that was it, or maybe somebody's birthday, maybe. And then for the rest of the time, it just sat in a cupboard and gathered dust. And I don't live that way. I don't, you know, we have dinner parties all the time, but I use my every day. And so I think people need to understand that that idea of the good stuff was kind of a post war, you know, different mentality and understanding that we don't live that way. And so use your nice stuff. Celebrate being you. I'm really seeing this movement, which I love with the millennials and the Gen Z, where they're starting to buy this stuff second hand and just use it. They're using the silver as their every day. They're like, it's so pretty. Why wouldn't I use it? I love this. Wear your nice blouse. Like, really celebrate being you today. This is, this is such a huge one and and when it's helping people declutter, acknowledging like, this is really nice. I'm not going to use this. I'm going to let it go.

28:51
Another thing, you know, you were talking there about light bulb moments that people have, you know, once people once you explain these things and these are concepts. People go, that's me. People like, but what if I break it? So if it's like wedding China or wedding glasses or whatever, they're like, but what if I break it I'm like, But you, you'll probably have that for the next 10 years, and they might slowly but surely get broken if they're glasses, but better to have used it for that 10 years and be left with one that you can then potentially keep as a sentimental item and not use, if you choose to do so. And you really want to keep that one you've had 10 years use out of it, you know. And it's so much better than leaving it in a cupboard to hope that it doesn't break and so, you know. But you can see where it comes from. We are victims of previous generations, really, aren't we? So? But it's a really important message, whatever that is, to use the good stuff. I love that. And also, if you broke it, it meant you were creating memories, that you were creating experiences. I also think this clutter block ties a little bit into people think that it's got value, and they're going to sell it down the road, right? That it's like this China pattern, like.

30:00
We paid a lot. My grandma paid a lot of money for it, or I got it for my wedding, and I'm going to resell it. And I'm sure you can, you know, I'm here to tell you, you are not going to no one is going to buy it. The world is just drowning in Old China, and it has no value, so use it, love it, and create the memories. Absolutely, absolutely could not agree more. Okay, on to the next club. Yeah. So this is a big one, and I'm interested. I'm super interested to talk to you about this, if you're seeing this in the UK, in the way that we are here. But it's clutter block number six, and it's trapped with other people's stuff. So on the top level, it's kind of gifts that people give you that you don't like, but you feel guilty giving it away. But really, what this is about is inheriting things from people who have passed, and you feel this obligation to keep it because it was a family heirloom, or your you were so close to your mother and you didn't want to you don't, you know, you can't bear to give it away, but you're not using it. So you know what I'm seeing here is that people have storage units that they're paying for full of all this old furniture, and they're not using it, and they will never use it, and they either think that it's going to be worth something and they can sell it, which is very rare that that happens, or that they're just so attached and that it represents the memory of that person that they can't imagine letting it go, and it becomes, become, becomes a stranglehold on them, you know, that they're spending money, or they have a garage or a room in their house, or they have, you know, a bunch of furniture that they can't use. So it's really understanding that what you don't want, you don't really want the stuff you want to keep the connection to the person who's gone. So how can you create that connection without being burdened with the stuff? Can you have your favorite photo of them? I mean, my granny was like, my love, like, just my favorite human on the on the planet. I was so lucky to spend a lot of time with her. She lived to be 102

32:09
she just was amazing. I have like, three things of hers, right? And one is her wedding ring that I wear every day, but that's it. I don't have a whole house full of her stuff, and I think about her every day. So how can you keep with your connection with the people that you have lost and not be burdened with their stuff? And I think, you know, if you keep so many things Tracy, then how can, how can anything be special? So if you've got hundreds and hundreds of we need to curate them down, and we need to look for that quality, no, you just say you've got your grandma's wedding ring, you know, I've got my mum's dressing gown in the wardrobe that she wore that reminds me of her, and I look at it every day. But I've not got anything else hardly. I've got a couple of bits and pieces, like, you know, I've got a little ornament behind, which is the last thing I ever gave her, but that's it, you know, to me, and I don't need that. I've got my pictures, I've got my memories, and so on and so. And I think so you've got that sort of thing in terms of the sort of quality over quantity scenario with sentimental items or things that you've inherited. And then you've got the you were talking there about, the sort of the guilt and feeling that you need to keep hold of them, which is like, ask yourself, whose memory is it? And so, how can it be sentimental if you have no, what we call warm, fuzzy feeling about that item, because it's somebody else's, you know. And you know, we talk about it in the context of children's, like little baby shoes and things like that. You know, we give them to our children. Think that they're going to want them. They've got no memory of themselves walking around in little baby shoes. They're not interested. That's our memory, and we need I hear that so much. It's such a great point that you're saying, you know, we're helping a client, and they've saved all this stuff for their kids, and they're either FaceTiming with their kid, and they're like, Okay, I'm gonna put it in a box and send it to you. And I've heard so many adult children say exactly that, that's your memory, not mine. Yeah, exactly your memory, not mine. I don't and so if you're burdened with other people's stuff, I think that's such a great point. Like, is this really your memory? Is it someone else's memory? And does it give you the warm fuzzies, exactly? And I think, you know the the another thing that I want you to say as well, because you were talking there about storage units, which is obviously a big, a big problem these days, but there's still, even though you're not paying for something. So even if you don't have a storage unit, you're still paying for that, the cost of that room in your house to keep that stuff, or your garage or your loft or your shed or whatever it is. And so there's still a cost associated with the space that that stuff is taking up. And so, you know, so, so important to really start to look at other people's things as well. So, yeah, so now, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, this is a big one. And you know, as we're seeing the aging population of the Boomers and Gen X, it's, it's really,

34:52
it's really, it's so funny. My, I tell this story. My when my granny passed, there was a box of photos in.

35:00
Her house, and I took it because I was like, oh, I want to be in charge of these. And these are family photos and, you know, and I dragged the box around and moved a couple times, and my dad's in his mid 80s, and I was like, I gotta get my dad to, like, tell me who these people are before he goes. Because, you know, I just, I want to know. So when Thanksgiving came out, I'm like, Okay, let's go through these photos and let's figure out, so I can make sure, you know, if I'm going to keep these, I know who it is, and we start going through it. It was not my family's photos. My grandmother had, like, taken the box from a neighbor who had died, so I'd been dragging around some other person's family photos. My dad was like, I think that's Beverly, who lived down the street.

35:43
That's the kind of things if we don't spend the time, and you know, and it is so important, so lovely, to be able to have those conversations, as long as it's the right person that you're having the conversation with, I guess. Yeah, exactly.

35:54
So clutter block number seven is one of my favorites, and it's the my the stuff I keep paying for. So this is really this idea of either, you know, you've got a storage unit and you have stuff stored there that you never go to but this is really about keeping stuff that you don't use because you paid good money for it, right? I always joke that I've been in many clients houses that have a exercise bike in the middle of their living room. And I'm like, Well, do use this? And they go, you know, in the middle of their bedroom. And I'm like, Well, do you use it? And they go every day to hang my clothes on, you know, and that understanding that sometimes we make mistakes and we buy things and we're just human. And it's like you just again to back to self awareness, you have to acknowledge that it doesn't matter what I paid for it, if I'm not using it, it's costing me. It's costing me emotionally. It's costing me, you know, stress wise, it's costing me a room in my house. And maybe I just have to say, Yeah, I paid good money for it. I made a mistake, and I gotta let it go. And so many people hang on, well, I'm going to use it someday. No, you're not, you're not going to use it, and that's okay. I know absolutely. What I love about that and everything that you're talking about there is, you know, there's so much overlap. Of course, there is because we're looking at the emotional connection to cluttering, but we both tackle things in exactly the same way. You know, I have been a professional organizer exactly the same as you for the last 15 years, and now Ingrid and I do more online than we used to do, but I think it's so important to be able to explain these things to people, whether that's on a one to one basis, or on a podcast like this, or in a book, whatever that is, so that people can really relate to these things, whether it's the clutter blocks, whether it's the clutter personalities that we have in reset your home, it all starts with that self awareness. So I've loved our conversation today, and I want to say this, I just want to say this really quick to people out there that. And again, this is why I was so excited to do this podcast. And you know, the message comes in different ways for different people, right? And some and if you're struggling with clutter, read as much as you can, or listen to as many podcasts. You know, get both of our books, because there's going to be nuggets in both of them that are going to speak to you and and I just that's why I love talking to other organizers. And especially when we're like minded, it's like, you just never know what's going to flip the light switch for someone absolutely and we're all learning from each other as well. You know, as organizers as well, so much to learn so and I think that the passion comes through as well. You love being an organizer. I love being an organizer. People are like, Why do you love it so much? Because we just love being able to help people to get over these hurdles in their home and not to be a slave to clutter. So however we do it, however we get the message across, whether it's through a podcast, whether it's through a book, whether it's working with people one to one or in a membership, we're so lucky to be able to do this job that we've got. And I know that you've built a big business,

38:59
Tracy, on the back of, you know, your experience, you're now sharing that with other organizers, right? Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, so, you know, the demand is incredibly high. I can't keep up with it, and I get so many calls from all over the United States asking if we can go and, you know, we do. Have been flown around quite a lot, but it's, you know, it's not economically feasible for a lot of people, and so I really looked at, how do I scale this business? What makes sense? And for me, my business has been I've done very well with it. It's been a real sense of economic freedom. It's I wasn't married for a long time. I supported myself, and I just felt like that. This is a job that most women are doing, most of the women that do the organizing, and they're doing it for free. And so how can I help them make money? And so I really dove into the franchising model, and it just made so much.

40:00
Sense for scaling the business, because each franchise is its own small business. So the person owns it, they run it. I give them my methodology, my accounting, my national recognized brand training. They come to LA for two weeks of training. We stay in touch, but it really is their own business. And I think that because they're like you said, there's so many of us out there that want to help people and are good at this, that turning it into a franchise made so much sense. So we just launched a couple weeks ago. We're in talks to sell our first couple which is exciting. And so if anybody's listening from the United States and is something that they're interested in, please go to declutter, fly.com,

40:41
and there's a page and reach out to us, because I'd love to talk to you, and I'm so excited to either to both make the services available on a broader scale and to also help women have economic freedom. Absolutely sounds exciting. Sounds exciting. So I'm so sad that our lovely chat is coming to an end. Tracy happy back. We can't, I know we definitely, we definitely will. So I can't believe we needed Ingrid and Lesley Go Global week to finally invite the podcast. But thank you so much for reading. Reset your home. I know you loved it, and you enjoyed it, and you saw so many similarities in terms of the way that you do things, the way that we do things, loads of the stuff that we have talked about today are included in the book. We definitely go through the thinking side of decluttering. So every single section has got an emotions based part of it and a practical based system a part of it, because we think that's so important.

41:37
It is launching in the US and Canada on the 24th of June. It's already available in Australia and New Zealand. It was launched on the third of June, which is very, very exciting. Obviously, it's available in audible. It's available on Kindle as well. So if you're interested in reset your you know, reset your homework, please do go and check it out and make Ingrid. And I very happy to have a successful American and Canadian launch. Um, you'll find it at declutter hub.com, forward slash book, and there are discount codes as well that you can use in your country. But before we go Tracy, tell us about where people can find you've mentioned your website already, if people are interested in franchise, and I'm sure most of your other content is there too. Yep, everything's everything's there. My biggest platform is YouTube and Instagram. It's at Tracy underscore, McCubbin, MC, C, U, B, B, I N. I'm very, very, very active on Instagram. And you know, we I read every comment. I'm in chats with people all the time. And I'll just say this, what you said earlier, that is the upside of social media. I have just connected with so many amazing people and seen their journeys and been able to support them. So I I love it. I love it. If people would come follow me and connecting with people like you. So yeah, Instagram and and YouTube are my big channels. Social media is great when people are in our channels. Tracy, that's basically the way that it works.

43:02
Honestly, find a different way of doing things sometimes. So yeah, I'm only joking. So thank you so so much for being part of our lovely launch week for our book. We really, really appreciate your time. I've loved talking through the seven clutter blocks with you, and we really hope to see you again on the podcast soon. Thank you.

43:22
Applause.

43:24
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode and we'll see you next week.
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Episode 363 – Before you blame the clutter are you doing these 10 things?

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Episode 356 – The 7 clutter blocks with Tracy McCubbin

Episode 363 – Before you blame the clutter are you doing these 10 things?

Episode 362 – The Roots of Clutter: How Britain became a nation of stuff with Professor Jane Hamlett

Episode 361 – Decluttering for yourself – why Swedish death cleaning might not be for you

Episode 360 – Gretchen Rubin – The secret to happiness in a cluttered world

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Reset Your Home

Unpack your emotions and your clutter, step by step
