A photograph of guest, Juliet Landau-Pope smiling and wearing a blue top, discussing oranising teenagers
Episode 115 – Organising teenagers with Juliet Landau-Pope

In this episode, we are talking to our good friend, Juliet Landau-Pope about organising teenagers. She is an award-winning productivity coach and study skills consultant, helping students and young adults to develop time management, organising and exam revision skills.
Episode 385 – Life Skills for Kids with Katie Kimball
Episode 384 – The Reality of House Clearance
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The declutter of podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your hosts professional organisers, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

Ingrid  0:32  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 115 of the declutter hub Podcast. I'm Ingrid. In today's episode, I'm talking to Juliet Landau Pope of JLP. Coach about organising teens. Now, Juliet yet, we spoke a long, long time ago, it was episode 20. And now we're episode 115. Can you believe it?

Juliet  0:58  
It's amazing. And it's been absolutely fantastic to watch the declutter hub, grow and flourish. And it's amazing the work that you're doing fantastic.

Ingrid  1:08  
Thank you so much. And I'm like, Why? Because at the time said, we'll have you back. We'll have you back. 100 episodes later, but you are back. So thank you for being here. I really, really appreciate it.

Juliet  1:20  
Well, thank you so much for inviting me. It's always fun to chat to you.

Ingrid  1:24  
Just so you know, listeners Juliet is an award winning productivity coach and study skills consultant, helping students and young adults to develop time management, organising an exam revision skills, and Oxford graduate with a background in academic teaching Juliet trained as a certified coach and set up her consultancy JLP coach in 2008. She's an expert on overcoming procrastination. And she has written two books being more productive in 2017. And clearing your clutter in 2018. Juliet has also recently launched her own academy for virtual organising, and she appears regularly in the media. Now Juliet and I have known each other for ages now. I mean, it just keeps getting longer and longer. I mean, I copied it like from the last podcast, which was like it was six years, but it's eight years now Juliet, we've been

Juliet  2:18  
friends. I know if you're liking then you forever, Ingrid.

Ingrid  2:23  
We Juliet and I met when we were both in the board of the Association of Professional declutters and organisers here in the UK. And Juliet was head of training, and I was president. And indeed, we were just great friends. And we together trained about 250 Professional organisers starting out new in the business. I mean, we've we've, we've done it all. With Juliet.

Juliet  2:45  
Yeah. And I think the great thing about our friendship is that we're so different. We've got different backgrounds and different interests. And yet we have this passion for not only for organising, but also for, for training, and for motivating other people that shared passion that, that we both really love.

Ingrid  3:05  
I know I believe. That's why I'm so delighted to have back on the show. So we are going to talk about organising teens or teenagers. Because when we think about organising skills, we always think about because a lot of us work with adults in their homes. And you really carved such a nice niche for yourself. They're working with teenagers, and I think it's just so fantastic that you're teaching them those skills already from a young age. You know, of course, you know, we always think about kids as young children like Primary School, where we teach them how to where to put the Lego and where to put the crayons, but there's that whole kind of in between phase that is so in need of all those skills.

Juliet  3:49  
Yeah, it's such a wonderful age group to work with my, my kids are now you know, coming into their 20s. So I've been through it myself and your kids are still just entering that that period of it. But it's a really wonderful age to work with. And of course, there's a big difference between working with a 13 year old and working with an 18 year old, we shouldn't, I should say, you know, it's it's to be cautious about generalising about teens, because it's actually it's almost like a whole generation, lots and lots of differences and differences of personalities and circumstances to but it's a period of such change. They're going through making decisions about their careers, about friendships are about relationships, about their bodies, about their sexuality, about who they are and who they want to be. And it's quite a tumultuous time. So there's lots going on in their lives. There's also lots going on in families, a lot of you know, it's very often a time when youngsters are either pulling away or or experiencing tensions and difficulties at home, partly because they're growing up and becoming adults and being themselves and that's a very natural thing. But it's also because parents sometimes Just don't know how to handle those changes. And so that can be quite difficult. And then of course, there's a whole question of expression of who you are. And that impacts your clothes. It impacts what, what you what you want to keep what you want to put up in your bedroom, what you want to who you want to be in the world. And so I think there's a lot of confusion, and a lot of misunderstandings, a lot of secrecy as well. Who do you talk to about what and who do you trust. And I guess the most exciting thing for me about working with this age group is, I really feel like I'm instilling some little nuggets that might be useful later in life. So I'm not, you know, pretending that I'm going to teach them everything they need to know. And of course, they're going to go on and do all sorts of things and make all sorts of mistakes. But, but what we what we know from working with adults, that many people just don't learn how to set up systems, how to manage routines, how to develop habits, how to overcome procrastination, how to motivate themselves. And I just think you're never too young, you're never too old, you're never too young, to learn some of this stuff. So if you can learn it, before you leave home before you go to college before you, you know, have to deal with too much responsibility in your life. It's such a, it's such a benefit.

Ingrid  6:24  
So true. So then my question is to you, are there any specific organising challenges that teenagers face is different than adults?

Juliet  6:36  
I guess one of the differences between working with teens and adults is, when we work with adults, we're usually employed by the person who we work with. So a mom or an older person who's downsizing or whatever, the clients contact us, and they employ us, they might be recommended with a teenager, obviously, it's usually a parent, who then who hires me, and then introduces me to the student. And of course, my first question is always are they on board, I always have to make sure that they're up for it. Because there's no point you can't impose an organiser on a teenager, then it's not like working with a four year old. If they don't want you in the room, there's no way. So it's really important to build trust, it's really important to establish what my role is, and establish the boundaries and established who I report to and what I share. And it's really important that I explain to the client to the student, that this is all about them, it's it's all about helping them and empowering them and motivating them and making their life easier. My role is not to give them more work, I'm not there to help them, to get them to tidy up and do more homework, I'm there to help them make better use of their time and their space. And as a study skills expert, I say I'm here to help you study smart, not just study hard. So I'm not going to give you more work. I'm not like a tutor who's going to pile on more work. I want to make your life easier, and I want to make it work for you. So once they buy into the benefits, and then for them to see for them to identify what are the challenges. So again, I don't make any assumptions. I don't walk into someone's bedroom or sit down. Now I'm working mostly by zoom. So I can still see this face if they choose to show it to me. But I was asked him, you know, what are the challenges? What are you finding difficult? Are you missing deadlines at school? Do you spend time looking for things that you've lost? Does your mom yell at you or your dad yell at you because your rooms a mess, you know what would make your life better. And so it's helping them buy into into that. And then sometimes I can share strategies, and I can actually explain how to do things. And more often it's talking them through and letting them come up with the ideas as well about what would be better. So for example, if they've got lots of papers piling up on their desk, or you know, at school, they're often given handouts and forms and things and they get scratched up and left behind in their school bag or so what would be a good idea, maybe having a routine of once a week, maybe on a Friday afternoon, just before the weekend starts to look through those papers and either file them or shred them or recycle them or whatever. But think about it only takes 510 minutes on a Sunday evening planning ahead, having a way of actually planning your time as well. Because, again, one of the difference between adult clients and teenage clients is they don't wear watches for the most part. They might have a watch as a decorative gift that they've been given. But they don't use a watch. They will check their phones all the time. And they don't have calendars. They might use an app or they might use a school homework website or something. Quite often when I say to teenagers, how do you know what you're doing in three weeks time? Like what happens if someone were to invite you to an event in three weeks? How would you know whether you're available or not? Quite often they say I lost my mom because because then Mom knows when their dentist appointment is or when the end of term is, like, you've got a maths test in three weeks time. How do you know what you're doing for those three weekends Have you got football practice, have you got a family event coming up, if you've got something going on, that's going to help. And they don't have a way of tracking times actually showing them whether it's an online planner, or how to use a diary or how to use an app. Those can be really basic tools. And the same with managing time on a very micro level, just you know, you've got three pieces of homework and two hours, how you going to break up your time and make sure you get everything done without being in the panic.

Ingrid  10:41  
You know what, this makes me laugh so much, because this is exactly what happened. Two days ago in my my budget, yes, love two days ago in my house. So now it was last week. Sorry, it was last week. So I'm out getting a couple of bits from the grocery store, I get a text from the scout leader saying is max coming to the scout meeting tonight, of course, I missed the text, because I was actually putting my shopping on the throat on the band to for the cashier to do it. So I'm in the car on my way home thinking Let me check my phone before I drive off. I don't drive and text just to be clear. And uh, see, I missed her text. And she's like this Mexican. So it was like, only 50 minutes after seven o'clock. And I'm like, well, apparently nobody in my house can live their appointments if I'm not there. Because apparently, I am the only one. So we had a whole conversation with Max saying I think it's time you need to start having a Google Calendar or something and things in because I can't be constantly telling you what to do. So I think now we're at the point we might need to get because our listeners know I am a paper calendar person, unfortunately. But I think actually now we need to start going to some sort of family digital diary where all of these things are put in because I just don't want to be the one who reminds everybody all the time. We're so used to it from when their lives are when we are in control of everything. And I'm like, No, it's your responsibility to show up. But in the end, they still text me.

Juliet  12:10  
You're absolutely right, because I think it's it's not just about being in control. It's about letting him take responsibility and letting him learn as well, that if I've got these weekly engagements, I'm going to make sure I get my homework done in advance, rather than just be told five to seven. Oh, remember, you've got scouts, he needs to work around it. And if especially if he has to do something to prepare, or maybe you know, meet something, or bring something to the meeting or do something, have that ability to track. I'm also like you I use tech, but I also love finding and lots of country, we again, there's this expectation that teenagers do everything online. But I think there is also a bit of a backlash. And understanding that it's not great to be looking at a screen all day long. And it's not great to be entirely dependent on your phone or on your laptop or tablet or whatever. And there's a there's a lot of satisfaction from holding a pen and paper or using a visual display or making a poster and really low tech, you don't need to spend lots of money. There's lots of free resources. There's a great website called printer calendar with hyphens print, hyphen, a hyphen calendar, where you can just download and then customise a calendar which you can use to plan either a study schedule or, you know, weekly schedule. So I work with teenagers on finding out what really works for them. And sharing some of these tools, sharing strategies, but also really encouraging them to develop habits. It's all about routines. It's not just the big magic makeover and clearing out your room. For one, you know, a one off weekend. It's also how are you going to make it simple and doable, so that your clothes get from your body to the laundry basket? Or seems like a miracle sometimes. Or depending on the rules in your house. Are you allowed to take coffee cups up to your bedroom? Or woman? How do they get back down to the kitchen? These are things I'm still struggling with my kids no longer teenagers, but we're still having these conversations. What belongs in your room? And also how do it's not just about your bedrooms? How do you as a household or a family manage the shared space? So that can be also especially with older teenagers, but even if younger ones if they're starting to cook, how do they take responsibility for cleaning, tidying, organising, putting things back knowing where things belong? Because much as we as parents often want to do things for them. We're not doing them a favour if they're not learning how to do it themselves, because one day they're going to be fasting one day they're going to be sharing. Either they're going to be living on their own or they're going to be sharing with somebody else and they're going to need to manage those routines or the Gonna be living back with us, they're going to be boomeranging back. And we don't want to be doing laundry and clearing and everything ever. So um, it's all about habit formation and routines and what works for you, you know, do you want a recycling? Basket in your bedroom? So the papers don't all pile up? Or are you able to take it downstairs and put them outside? Who? Who manages all that? And who makes those decisions?

Ingrid  15:26  
So you mentioned something about study skills as well. Do you feel that if you teach them more organising skills, it also helps them study better?

Juliet  15:36  
Oh, absolutely. I think organising studies, organising skills and study skills. There's a huge overlap. I don't really know where the division lies, because I think if you can plan and prioritise if you can make decisions I mentioned procrastination, knowing how to kickstart yourself when you feel stuck, being able to focus on what matters. That's what decluttering and organising is really all about. We've discussed this lots of times, it's about looking at whether it's a lot of stuff is whether it's looking at a pile of handbags or a pile of books, and say, what do I really care about what really brings joy? What do I what has purpose and meaning in my life? And what can I let go? And that's true about time as well. So how do I fill my time? What do I really do I get to the end of the evening, and realise I've been on the Xbox all evening, and I still haven't done my homework. Just being able to monitor yourself and being able to make active decisions so that you're making choices. I think that's very empowering. And when it comes to studying, it's it's partly the practicalities of planning, focusing, I teach teenagers, memory skills, writing skills, revision skills, which are more academic, but I think the bigger picture is about making decisions and focusing on what matters and also learning yourself being you know, becoming more self aware and knowing what works for you. So that you can, if you know that you're you know, more of a morning person or an evening person, or you can focus on some things better at different times of day, or that you need, you get inspired by certain things, or that certain people bring you down, you don't want to be around certain conversations, just you know, being aware, a lot of it is about well being and mental health, I think is very important. Very important issue to have in mind. When talking to young people. I mean, we know that as organisers that, that clutter and organising is a huge health benefits, especially to mental health. But I think with young adults, especially when there were so many pressures from school from home, that careers, about money about all sorts of things, helping them feel more in control of their lives and being able to make more, more confident decisions. Whether it's deciding which eight levels to do, or whether it's deciding which piece of homework to do first. I think there's organising skills, because you're kind of prioritising. So do you think it's all connected?

Ingrid  18:10  
Yeah. So, so, so interesting. So then I kind of my next question is because of course, are people teenagers work with you? And do you then, you know, do to feel like, Yes, I'm going to tidy up my room and do it all? Because for us as parents, why? Why is it so difficult to motivate our kids or our teenager to tidy up and get organised? Have you got better success, because I'm going to send both of mine to you.

Juliet  18:40  
First of all, I would say that if either of my two children were listening to this, they would be in stitches, they would be on the floor, because they know I have very little impact on them at all. And I think as a parent is the hardest thing in the world. To motivate. We can support we can guide we can control we can bribe, but actually, actually having an impact, I think, is phenomenally difficult. So when I'm when I'm speaking to parents, I run workshops for parents, and I often coach parents as well. I'll say, just be aware that even the professionals can't, you know, even as a professional, I can't talk to my own kids about this stuff is really, really difficult for all sorts of reasons. I think, partly because there's so much emotion, you know, we're so invested, we want the best for them. We not only want the best for them, because we love them so much. But we also have an interest, it's all home as well. And it's all life that's being impacted. It's our money that's been wasted, or it's our time that's been being impacted. So it's really hard to take ourselves out the picture and say this is actually in your interest. And it would it would it would benefit you if your room was tidy. So I think there's all that emotion. There's all that history. There's all that pressure that we bring, and we project as well because we can't separate ourselves. So I speak to lots of parents who had a really hard time at school, got very nervous about exams, got very stressed about deadlines, even if they've been super successful, hasn't always, you know, been an easy route. And then they can't help but projects that pressure. And one of the first things I always say depends is just Cheryl, step back really hard. Sometimes kids need to learn, they need to make mistakes. They need to learn by making mistakes, whether it's not doing well in a test, or whether it's not finding a piece of homework, maybe they need to go to school without their trainers, and see what it's like to not take part in a PE lesson because they haven't got their trainers, rather than have us try and do everything for them all the time. But it's so I think it's that kind of helicopter parenting, and criticism and judgement and emotion. A lot of times comes from love, I know where it comes from, but it's really hard to express it constructively sometimes. I think it's also tendency and again, I speak for myself, like exaggerate. catastrophize generalise. So say things like you always do this, or why do you always do that? Or why do you never do this? Rather than focusing on the very specific task? So rather than saying, I noticed that your wet towels on the floor? Would you please put them back in the bathroom? Which is a simple requests, it's it's so hard to say that rather than you always leave your towels on the floor, and why have I told you this 100 times before you never listen, and so easy to escalate those conversations rather than just focus. So I would say, I guess the main thing to parents is, pick your battles just decide what really matters. If they're doing okay, in school, if they are, you know, reasonably happy if they are able to have a conversation with another adult. And if they are able to, I don't know if they're doing okay. Maybe the towels on the floor isn't the thing to focus on. Maybe if you've, we've got very limited time. And I think maybe you're I say this to you in group because I know your kids are slightly younger, the older they get, the less they want to be with us. Which is really natural. I didn't want to spend time with my parents when I was an older teenager, I love my you know my parents dearly, but they have their own lives have their own interest and far more interesting things that the older they get, they spend less and less time with us. And so the time that we do have is really valuable, really precious. Do you want to spend time arguing with them, nagging them about the shoes in the hall or the books on the stairs or the homework that they haven't done, I think it's really hard to get that balance between wanting to guide and nurture and help them on their way. But also picking battles and making sure that we focus on the things that really matter. So sometimes it's about overlooking and just saying, You know what, I'm just gonna have to turn a blind eye to that it's their room if they want to leave it in that state as long as they get to school on time and they do their homework and they're reasonably okay,

Ingrid  23:06  
so close close the door to the bedroom and not tidy up behind their back because they never learned

Juliet  23:11  
none and I think have very clear have very clear house rules. I mean, I've always said, you know, no food in the bedrooms, they can't take I don't want an I A scared scared them by talking about mice and spiders and creepy crawlies and things that might happen. But you know, and laundry is not in the laundry basket doesn't get done. I'm not gonna go into the rooms and pick up the clothes, I will do the laundry in the laundry basket, but they can't come to me and say, Where's my jeans? Or where's my blue t shirt? If it wasn't in the laundry basket. So I think you know, every household will have to negotiate those things, but having really clear rules can really help.

Ingrid  23:46  
Yeah, yeah, I fully agree with that. So what are your top team top tips for teams then?

Juliet  23:55  
The team teens would be know what's important to you. recognise that being organised or not. It's not about being organised. It's about learning organising skills because nobody is 100% organised. Except you Ingrid. Maybe you probably the most organised person I've ever met. But most of us do not. So yeah, it's not about being organised. It's it's about having some organising skills and about having some routines and knowing that it can really help you. It's about noticing what works and what doesn't work. So noticing that if you pack your school bag on a Sunday night and check over check the night before what what lessons you're coming up, whether you need your you know, your sports bag, your music bag, whatever it is that you know, knowing when you're going to scouts and when you're not. Knowing when half term is knowing when your maths test is coming up. That's going to take a lot of stress away from you. It's actually going to alleviate stress knowing that that planning is not an extra task to do. It's actually something that can make life simpler and more manageable. And it gives you more time. I mean, I often say to some of the students I've worked with have said, what somebody said to me the other day, now that I've learned to do my plan, when to do my homework, I have more time to spend on the Xbox and chat to my friends, because I don't spend the whole evening faffing around, I used to come home from school, faff around for ages and start doing my homework at nine o'clock at night, and then go to bed late, feel tired the next day and then feel really crossed that I hadn't had much time off. Whereas now that I figured out how to do one piece before dinner, one piece after dinner, I know how to manage that. I can spend an hour on the Xbox so I can chat to my friends. And that's fine. So I think it's just helping them understand that this is all about making. This is about you and your life. This is not about pleasing anybody else. You're not doing this to make anybody else's life better. But yours. Listeners

Ingrid  26:04  
Wow. Okay, I'm on board with you, Juliet. So, okay, we've had really good topic for teens. So any advice for us parents, then to close this podcast? What do we need to do?

Juliet  26:18  
I guess my number one tip, I talked about setting boundaries and focusing on picking your battles. But I think my number one tip would be to notice the good stuff. We're very good. And we do this generally, you know, I think all of us are primed to notice what's not going well in our lives and not notice the mess at home and you walk in through the hall and someone's left their bag where it shouldn't be or whatever. And you immediately notice that you don't necessarily notice that they've hung their coat up or that they've, I don't know, taken their coffee cups back into the kitchen. So I think notice the good stuff, and praise and praise and praise, something I picked up years ago when my kids were in primary school from a parenting course that I did was to build on the strengths and give kids whether they primary kids or young adults, build up the confidence and really focus on the things that are going well, and instil in them the motivation to want to do more by pointing out all the good stuff. So it doesn't have to be a great big drama. Yeah, you hang your coat up. Wow, that's amazing. I didn't think you do it. But you did. But just I appreciate you hang your coat up or not even I appreciate because that's putting you in the picture. And it's not about doing it for you. But just isn't it great? How could sang up just noticing not taking for granted the things that they're doing? Because I think as parents, we tend to overlook the good stuff.

Ingrid  27:41  
Yes, a client of mine the other day said, I haven't done it and I went, you haven't done it yet. I think as as professional organisers we learn as well. I learned that from a training course that I went to, and I thought that's so good. I want to use that. And boom, three days later, I was able to use that tiny little example. And it made her like, yeah, yeah, I haven't done it yet. And it made her feel good. Yes. How fabulous is that to not focus on the on the negative, but focus on the positive things that are happening?

Juliet  28:13  
Yeah, something that I learned early on as well with with my own kids doesn't always work. But is to say when they come in from school or when you haven't seen it from what from a while. Tell me something good that happened today? Or what did you do well today, because they might not. You know, they might have to think about it. But they want to share with you they might have failed their French tests. But I'm really moderately in geography, but not necessarily feel like on the telly about that. Or they might have had a nice chat with a friend on the bus on the way back or just enjoyed their lunch or just tell me something nice that happened today. Tell me something you enjoyed or something that you did well, and I think just helped to focus on the positive.

Ingrid  28:52  
Yeah, yeah. Well, listeners on that bombshell, I think we've we've, we've got everything covered. I love that they think about the positive and look at the positive. And I love that. So Juliet, where can I find our listeners? If they want to find out more about you? Where can they find you?

Juliet  29:11  
Well go to my website, which is www dot j LP coach.com. And I'm JLP coach on social media to on Twitter, just getting started on Instagram. And anywhere else. I'm JLP. Coach.

Ingrid  29:28  
Well, thank you so much for being here and for your incredibly fantastic podcasts and all your information. And I hope it has inspired people and even if you don't have teams, but you have younger children or maybe your children or young adults and or maybe beginning 20s I'm sure there is lots of stuff in here in this podcast that can help you in your life as a family. And maybe just maybe you've picked up some other golden nuggets here what Juliette was sharing with us so thanks, Juliet for being our guest on our show once again.

Juliet  30:01  
Thank you very much for having me.

Ingrid  30:02  
You're welcome. You're welcome. So that's it for this episode. We hope you've all enjoyed listening and are inspired to take action. And we appreciate you taking the time to listen today. If you want to have more handy tips and advice from Lesley and I, you can find us in lots of places. We have a fab supportive Facebook group called the declutter hub community, and we are on Instagram and Twitter and Facebook page to where you can find this at declutter hub. If you'd like to know more about our VIP membership, have a look at members dot declutter hub.com. If you don't want to miss our next episode, please subscribe to the podcast and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. Thanks so much for listening, and see you next time.

Outro  30:52  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of The declutter hub podcast. Check out declutter hub.com for more inspiration. Don't forget to tune in next week.
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