A photo of Lesley's son Luke smiling into camera
Episode 339 – A developing ADHD Journey with Lesley’s son, Luke

It’s the end of Ingrid and Lesley week and our last deep dive into mine and Ingrid’s life outside of the Declutter Hub. We’ve saved the best till last and I can say that because today I’m talking to my eldest son Luke. Now Luke has already featured on the podcast a couple of times before but he’s back by popular demand. Today we are talking all about Luke’s recent housemove and how that all worked out once he factored in his ADHD which he spoke about with us back in 2023.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
It's the end of English and Lesley week in our last deep dive into mine and English life, kind of outside of the decor hub, we have saved the very best till last, and I can say that because today I'm talking to my eldest son, Luke. Now, Luke has already featured on the podcast a couple of times, but he's back by popular demand. Today we're talking all about Luke's recent house move and how that all worked out once he factored in his ADHD, which he spoke to us at length back in 2023

00:37
you're listening to the declutter hub podcast, bringing you tried and tested, no nonsense, tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now here's your host, Lesley Spellman,

00:59
hello and welcome listeners. I'm Lesley. We're delighted you're here to join us as part of your decluttering journey. So whether you're brand new today or have been listening for ages, we want to say thank you so much for being here. It means so much to Ingrid and I that you turn up every week to listen to and support us while we talk all things decluttering and organizing. We'd love to help more people with their quest for a clutter free home. And our podcast is a fantastic way for people to be inspired to take action. We have a favor to ask. If you like what you hear, be sure to hit the follow, subscribe or like button on your podcast player. Share us with your friends, or share your thoughts on the podcast by leaving a review. So Luke Ingrid and Lesley week, their last episode of Ingrid and Lesley week, and you're here. So a huge, warm welcome back to the declutter hub podcast. Thank you.

01:50
It's, it's dead exciting to be back. I'm glad that I'm doing my well second ADHD podcast, but it'll be the third one we've done total. But I'm not really, really excited to be back, and I'm glad that we're kind of extending the conversation, you know, that we that we had over 100 episodes ago. The feedback was really nice. It was, you know, nice to see that it was, it was, it was well received. But, but for me personally, it was, you know, as part of the ADHD journey to help others with what you say, and then to be validated back. It was just really nice to have that. So I'm really, really glad to be back, and obviously on Ingrid and Lesley week. What better time to do it?

02:31
Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, so your ADHD, so when you last came onto the podcast, just to give a bit of context for those people who have not listened in already, and if you haven't listened, then do go back and listen to episode 247 which was the one that Luke was on. We you were very recently diagnosed with as an adult, then with ADHD, and you shared very openly and frankly, your journey and the strategies that you had employed and things like that, which was super helpful to so many people, which is why we got such great feedback on it. But obviously we know that ADHD is not a static thing, like everything in life, it ebbs and flows, and I know that over that period, there have been changes, so that's what we want to really explore a little bit today. So let's get started. How have things changed in the last 18 months with your ADHD?

03:21
So I suppose ADHD remains quite much the same. I guess I get it looks different day to day, but, but in terms of how my experience of things are, it's it's much the same. However, life around you changes, and I think that that's one of the primary reasons why ebbs and flows. You know, why you have really good days where you feel on top of stuff and, you know, you feel unstoppable, and then you have other days where you feel like, you know, putting it bluntly, you feel like you're drowning a little bit. And I actually think that's not ADHD being worse or better day to day. I think that life is more and less challenging as as as the days go by. And so, you know, you're you're predisposed to, to feeling stressed, to feeling overwhelmed, you know, to ignoring things that you need to do, or struggling to even get started on them. You know, all these various challenges and hurdles get put in the way of life and and so. So, yeah, I think the life has changed, and for that reason, I've experienced new moments within the ADHD journey that, you know, I hadn't ever experienced before, like, we'll get on to it, but you know, the house move was a massive thing, and work changes, and your financial situation changes, and all these various things that happen and and so, yeah, it's, I think, the life changes. And then ADHD responds to that, yeah,

04:47
exactly No, you're right. It's all about the stresses and strains, and it's about, you know, moving through life. And as we get older, we always get more responsibilities. And, you know, as you kind of progress at work. You're saying all of those things become more stressful. So they're fantastic that you're making all that progress, but it adds additional stress and additional responsibilities to yourself, which can be, can be difficult to deal with when you're dealing with something like ADHD. So I know the last time that we spoke, Luke, you were about to embark, I think I've got this right on your medication, your ADHD medication journey. Let's call it that, shall we so? And I know a lot of people were interested in that part of it, you know, because the questions that were coming were about about the medication. So tell us a little bit about the medication you're on. Now. Luke is not a doctor. We're not medically qualified. Luke can only speak from his own experience about the way that this has gone, but I think it's something that people want to know about you specifically and your medication. So can you give us a bit of an outline on that?

05:47
Yeah, definitely. So I guess, for context, I'm on unprescribed l vans, and I take a 50 milligram dose. That's Liz Dex, Amphetamine is the is the chemical name. And there's another one which I've never tried. So, you know, I can't comment on that, but there is kind of another route that people seem to go down, which is methylphenidate. So I can't comment on that side. So when I speak about my experience with med meds, I'm, I'm talking about L vans, people in America, it might be via vans instead, but overall, it's been, it has been amazing for me. Actually, it has simplified the thoughts in my head. So, you know, prior to medication, I would sometimes feel completely overwhelmed by the number of things running simultaneously in my head, you know, I would struggle to kind of stick to one train of thought, and I would find myself jumping between various things. And for that reason, it was really hard to move anything forward, because you feel like you do them with 10 things at once with medication that kind of simplifies the 10 track thing, and it takes it down to one or two, so you kind of stick to what you're supposed to be doing. And for that reason, productivity, in a variety of ways, was was massively improved. For me. It doesn't fix all things, you know. So I think I went into it thinking, Oh, great, this is going to help my anxiety, and it's going to help with rejection sensitivity, and it's going to help with my time management and all these various symptoms of ADHD. I thought it was just going to be this catch all solution, and it's not. But what it does is simplify the path to managing those things. You know, it's far easier to use a calendar to manage your your schedule when there aren't all these blockers in the way of even opening the Calendar app and having something it so on medication, putting something in my calendar is far easier on medication. And when I get a notification on my phone saying, you know, it's time to do the bins tonight or or you need to submit this thing at work, I actually pay attention to that notification rather than kind of absent, absent mindedly getting rid of the notification, forgetting what even said, I think it simplifies the route to processing your anxiety and things like that, but you, you have to do the work, but it, but it makes it slightly easier for you. So overall, it has been, it's been a really positive experience for me. It took a little while to get to the dosage that was right for me. I think I took, took four different levels of dosage before, before settling on that 50 milligrams, but, but the 50 works really well. You know, on lower doses, it felt like it wasn't doing enough. On higher doses, it felt like I was too well stimulated, because it is just chemically, is that? And 50 was the sweet spot, really? So, yeah, I think it's been a huge part of the management of ADHD. For me. It's not the whole it's not the whole solution, but it's, but it's important as part of that, I guess what I will say on meds, because I think we need to speak warts and all, it's, I think I went in blindly, you know, thinking, well, this, you know, I'll take this now and everything will be fine. And what I hadn't really accounted for are side effects and and they are, they do exist. I think, you know, I think if you take a slow release stimulant every day of your life, it comes with side effects. So I think the ones that the ones that affect me, I sweat more, and I'm sorry for the gross kind of the gross information, but I definitely do when I have a weekend where I don't take it, there's a noticeable difference between, you know that. So climbing hands and sweat and stuff is definitely a thing, but you can manage that cotton mouth. You know, if I'm on my meds, I feel like I need to drink water loads more than ever would. But again, you can manage that. I think one of the biggest and most difficult side effects for me has been the loss of appetite. So it can almost get to the point where I feel like I'm I'm so hungry that. My body, my mind, rather, just says, I don't care, you know, I don't want to eat the it doesn't matter how hungry you are. The appetite is not there. And now this is one that I have to try really hard to manage. But when I weigh up the side effects against the benefits that the medication gives me, it's a no brainer. I'd rather force my appetite, then have to navigate the world with a with a messier mind, I suppose. So. So, yeah, all in all, medication has been amazing for me. And if I ever speak to people, personally, friends and stuff, who are going through this experience, and they're they're slightly worried about it, I definitely suggest trying it. It might not work for for each individual, but, but try it, and it was quite quick that I noticed that it would have benefits for me, and realizing that I then have to do the work to really, to really hit the levels I want to get to. But medication makes it easier. So, so, yeah, it's been, it's been positive overall.

10:57
I just wanted to jump back really quickly and clarify, because we were talking about your sort of racing mind. And just in case anybody has not listened to episode 247, just quickly, Luke was diagnosed with the combined type ADHD, so inattentive and hyperactivity. And that hyperactivity that Luke feels is less in physical kind of stuff and more in his mind. And so that's why I talked a little bit about racing thoughts. Now you talk Luke a little bit about taking days off the medication. So what makes you decide to take a day off? So

11:33
it was quite nice for me to find out that you could actually have time off of these meds, antidepressants, you know, when you're on them, you've got to stay on them, right, like it can, it can disrupt things even more if you, if you miss a day, or you decide to just quit, stop them, you know, you kind of a random point, you that simply can't, you know, have days off in that kind of way. But find out that ADHD medication, particularly the one that I'm on, you can, kind of, you can almost take them when you feel you need them. So when I feel I can take a day off, is when I want my mind. I want my don't want the pure version of my mind, I suppose, because it's not all bad, you know, the the the messy mind, or, you know, the the mind that jumps around from thing to thing when I'm when I'm at work, between nine and five, that doesn't really help me all that much. That make things make makes things more difficult. But when I have a free weekend and there's nothing planned in I don't have to meet people at a certain time, or I don't have to go into a big social situation where I kind of need this extra help to kind of navigate that. When I have free time, maybe I want to spend a weekend doing art or watching films or playing games, or the kind of things that I love doing if I don't take my meds on those days, I think I have a better time doing them because they're actually interest based, you know, tasks and hobbies, the kind of things that thrive for people with ADHD, you know, the hyper focus on something you love is quite this is amazing. I think, you know, hyper focusing on a particular topic or a hobby is, is really enjoyable. The problem is when you hyper focus on a hobby or a task and it gets in the way of other responsibilities, it suddenly becomes a negative and so when I have that free time, I like the way that my mind works, and I like to be able to just eat normally, you know, do away with the appetite suppression and and not have To think about anything in that kind of way. So, so yeah, I think it greatly depends on what my day looks like. If I go away on holiday, for example, and I'm away for a week, I won't take it at all for that full week,

13:54
and I can just be fairly to fair. You did say that when we went on holiday as a family that you took it religiously every day because of the social situation. So that's, is that me that's causing you to take your medicine holiday for a week?

14:09
Well, if I go away on my own, you know? And the plan is to sit and do nothing. There is no, there is no dinner plans. There are there are nothing, you know, we can really follow our minds rather than follow a schedule. Well, it works. However, the holidays that we go on with, you know, the rest of the family there, they are more they're driven by a schedule, aren't they? We planning what that holiday is going to look like for the most part before we go. And so, you know, that's a different type of holiday and and for that reason, it benefits me to kind of keep up with a fast moving holiday that otherwise might overwhelm me at times, or I might run my social battery might diminish quite quickly. You know, if we go from a museum onto busy trains, you. Walking through kind of the busiest part of the city, then we're in a restaurant, and then we're immediately doing something in the evening. That's quite a lot, and it's all enjoyable, and it's all amazing. And I never, I never dislike anything to do with the day, but the medication just helps me, helps smooth the path through that day. So yeah, when I refer to taking a week off on holiday. I'm

15:21
definitely wasn't talking about being with me, just for the avoidance of doubt, because it's an over stimulating, full blown, full scheduled week. So yeah, it's quite interested. I was like, Oh, I thought you said you're talking about but anyway, that's fine. I

15:36
think it's doing the type of holiday, of course, and it doesn't, it doesn't change. You know what I said about kind of one weekend I might need to take meds because that weekend is jam packed, and another weekend is completely, you know, plan free, so I don't take my meds. The same applies to a holiday. I just think you have to start to look at what your week looks like, you know, look inward and say, you know, what do I struggle with? And do I need it right now? And, and the answer, I think, changes great.

16:08
I think, you know, having that awareness of what's coming and planning for that is a big, you know, presumably, the medication allows that to happen, to kind of go, do you know what come on Saturday or whatever. I've got a chilled out day, and unless anything changes in the meantime, then that's going to be one of my days off. And so I think that's really interesting to be able to manage and understand your own body and how your own body and mind, of course, is reacting to that. So we're going to go to a break in a moment, and we're going to come back and we're going to talk about Luke's recent house move and how that presented, because that was a, of course, house moving is one of the most stressful things that any of us ever do, and so I'm interested to know how well I kind of know, to be fair, I'm interested for Luke to share that on the podcast. But before we do have your since you came on the podcast 18 months ago, or since you started your ADHD journey, let's call it, which has been going on for like, five, six years, right? Yeah, has your ideas of how ADHD presents altered in any way?

17:10
Yeah? Yeah, I would say they have. I think right at the start you are, you're learning a lot based on professionals that you're speaking to, and things that you might read online, or things that you watch exactly like this podcast and and, and when someone else is articulating ADHD it, it very neatly gets put into a lot of buckets, you know. So I at the beginning all of my various characteristics and behaviors and slotted them into various buckets. And for a period of time, it made a lot of sense the buckets that they sat in, you know, why am I? Why am I so sensitive, you know, in relation to my friends and family or people at work, all that's rejection sensitivity, you know, it neatly slots in. And I think over this period of time, I think one of the one of the realizations is that actually, some behaviors can slot into all of the buckets or or one bucket impacts this one, you know, it's a bit more fluid than I'd ever originally thought, just like anyone's mind. You know, day to day, it looks entirely different. And depending on how much you sleep and eat other thing, other, you know, circumstantial things like, what's going on in your life, and, you know, what kind of conversations have you just had with people, or what would people like with you at work? All these various things impact the way that you, your brain, I think, responds to stuff, and as a result, like, I think I'm surprised continually by how well I dealt with that thing when I thought normally that stresses me out, or how I crumbled under pressure for this thing that normally I'm okay with, or I was surprised by how overwhelmed I was in on a particular day. So, yeah, I think that, I think that I was starting to view it a bit more fluid, that I think that symptoms kind of come and go, and all of the all the various levels of your symptoms are different at different times. So yeah, I think, I think that's probably been the biggest change. Yeah. Okay.

19:10
Thank you so much, Luke. We're going to pop to a quick break and then we're going to come back and we're just going to talk about your move into the big, wide world of house ownership. So welcome back, everybody. Thank you so much. The first half loop, while we're on a break loop, was like, Oh, is this okay? And I'm like, You know what? This is fantastic, because it is so, you know, Luke is very open, very frank, and we go down to the nitty gritty of what ADHD actually feels like for a person that's going through that. It's not the same for everybody. Of course, everybody has a different experience of that, but I think there are so many people, whether you've got ADHD or are neuro diversion or not, it's an interesting thing to understand about other people, because as people understand neuro diversity, a little bit more, more and more people are getting diagnosed, and it's just important for everybody to understand the way that looks like, whether it's a colleague, whether it's a family member and stuff. So thank you so much for sharing. Okay, and you don't need to worry about it. Luke is absolutely great. So

20:04
it helps me a lot to say out loud, yeah, you know, it almost pings off of the laptop screen and comes right back at me, like I have to say out loud to understand it myself. So it's, it's nice to have this forum to do it, to be honest. But in classic ADHD fashion, I immediately finished something and start to doubt myself and think I've said something wrong, so at least it's on brand. Yeah, exactly.

20:29
Okay, Luke, so in November last year, you and the lovely Ellie went to buy your first home. It was a long, drawn out, hideous, stressful, typical house move process which tested you to the max. Tell us a little bit about that, and particularly how that worked within it would be stressful for anybody who was neurotypical for the avoidance of doubt, but it adds a whole new dimension when you've got other things that you need to worry about as well. So talk, talk to us about it, without going into the ins and outs of what happened, when, and all that, but tell it all, because that's just all you know. So I

21:08
guess, firstly, you know, you said there that it's stressful for anyone and and that that fact was really useful for me to kind of remind myself that actually very overwhelmed with this, but this will be overwhelming for anyone. So, you know, don't blame yourself. Don't don't convince yourself that you that you're rubbish and you can't handle things, and all these various kind of guilt ridden thoughts that start to pervade your mind. So it was, it's useful just to know that it's stressful generally. So that was something I think I wanted to start with. But yeah, it was a lot. Actually, it was a lot in a few different ways. You know, the build up to the actual perks of the house, you know, build up, building up to completion. That's really difficult, because you sit around feeling like nothing's happening and and I don't think that worked very well for me, you know, it's one thing to be stressed about, something that you can deal with yourself like, you know, the only block to that thing happening is is you and your your ADHD, or you and your productivity, for example. So, you know, it's bad enough when I've got a long list of things that I need to action, but it's even worse when there's a long list of things to action that I can do nothing about. So that was a lot for me. I think that that kind of limbo period was that that weighed heavy on me. And I think as that started to come to an end after something like seven or eight months or something like that, it was a long time, I kind of had this false sense of like, well, now I've got the list of things that I can action, you know. So this will be far easier, and I hadn't accounted for a few things, really. So obviously, you're not only moving into one place, you're moving out of another as well. So for a period of time, I felt like I was juggling two places, you know, there was there was the there was the packing down in one place, the the unpacking at another, and a long list of admin, you know, address changes, supplier changes, lots of phone calls, you know, lots of going to an estate agent one day and then meeting another estate agent the next to pick up your keys, all of these various things. It felt like I had a double length to do list that I had really accounted for. I was only, I was kind of only ever thinking about the new house, thinking, Yeah, this will be fine. But hadn't really accounted for the for the overlap of the other place, so that there was

23:30
just for the avoidance of doubt there was an overlap, because you still had your old flat for a few weeks after you bought a lot of people would, it's what it would all happen on one day, right? But the reward,

23:42
yeah, but even if you didn't have an actual overlap of, like, you know, tenancies, if you know, I mean, like, I can still live here for two weeks, even though I own the other house, there is still an overlap of jobs that you need to do, you know, transferring, moving United Utilities from the old address to the new one, and octopus energy and all that kind of stuff, and and having to drop your keys off one day and pick your keys up the other like that, all of these things would still need to be done, even if there was no living overlap. So I think that kind of caught me off guard, the sheer amount of admin. It was very, very different to any rental properties I've ever moved from, you know, previously, you just drop off the keys, and you kind of forget about the old one, and you move to the new one, and you change some supplier kind of addresses, and then, and then, and then you don't so, so I think that caught me off guard. And I think what also in hindsight, I think recognized, is you for a period of time, you lack a safe space. And I think that's really important for decompression, for ADHD, for autism, or the neurodivergencies, you know they you kind of need a place to kind of escape to at the end of a long day at work, or at the end of a busy weekend or the end of a hectic holiday with your family, you need to be able to come home and. Relax and take your mask off, I suppose, and truly decompress. And so for a period of time when you know, when furniture is not even built at a new place, or you don't even own the furniture, everything, every belonging of yours, is in boxes which you might have labeled. You know, we did. We wrote really good itemized lists on the side of the boxes, and still I couldn't even process those lists. And, you know, find the things that I needed. So just simply not finding my toothbrush or socks or boxes or whatever I needed just would really stress me out a lot. And I felt for a while that it was really, really getting on top of me. So I think that was another thing you know, you lack that you lack that safe space, you like that home environment that's so important. You it's coming, and you know you're going to get it eventually. And you build that around yourself, but, but, yeah, there is that period. And then I think you suddenly start to look at the long list of, you know, ignore all the admin, ignore the other flat kind of jobs. You now think, I've moved into this house, and there might be renovation stuff that you need to do, or cosmetic changes to the house, or at the very least, there's a load of tip runs and there's loads of there's just stuff. There's just jobs to do all the time. There's boxes arriving every day, so there's always rubbish and all these various things. Suddenly you're hitting the face with it, what feels like an endless list of things to do. So so it has been, it's been a lot. It has been, probably, over the last few years, the most stressful thing that I've kind of gone through, and I couldn't seem to put my management technique into place well enough, you know, to do it. Or actually, maybe they were never going to solve the way that I felt. Maybe absolutely that was just the reality of what that was, and the only way was through which, which, now in hindsight, I can say is real, that the only way to get rid of that list of jobs is to do them. And if you can rely on other people, friends and family. Then, then do it, if you can pay other people to do some things as well, you know, and you can afford it, importantly, then do that. Because I think it's quite easy to say sometimes, oh, we can save a bit of money by doing this, but at what cost? You know, you save 200 pounds, but you put off a job for a month that you really need doing in in a few days. So I think there's a lot of things that that help get that job done and and having having your loved ones around you to kind of unload and decompress with, I think is really important as well.

27:33
I think there's, there's a gaping hole here, Luke, because a lot of people are probably thinking, well, Lesley does that for a living. So why was she not there to assist? So basically, Luke got the keys to his house about two days before I left Manchester for a month to go on holiday and to be in London. And so it was a bit of a nightmare, because I've, I don't know, I can't, still, retrospectively, can't decide whether it was a blessing or a curse, because I think there was a part of me that didn't want to interfere, because I can easily take over, and probably would have done so, and that might have sped things along, a little bit of administrative perspective, or, you know, unpacking perspective. I could definitely have helped with that, or I could have got my team to do it, but I feel that you needed to do it at your own pace a little bit. And I think that, you know, when we were talking about it later, you know, and I'm looking going, you've not really unpacked many boxes yet, basically, and you've had all this time, not not judgmentally, but kind of, I think when you said that lack of safe space for you, I think that was the thing that I'd not really factored in, that it would send you into a bit of a Test with that side of it. So that was, you know, enlightening learning point for me, really, because, of course, normally people and I would, we would have totally been there, but we weren't there. It just didn't happen. Did it look because I was away the whole time, so I went away, came back, and Luke and Elliot unpacked most of their boxes and were all settled. And the only valuable input that I could put in, put into that really was to tell them to sort of take their minds off and buy a Christmas tree, right? That's the only valuable input that I put into it, because it was just all getting so overwhelming, wasn't it? And I was like, You need to stop thinking of this lovely brand new house, which is so exciting for a young couple to move into as a chore and to just enjoy it a little bit. And they went out that night, didn't even bought a Christmas tree. And, and then, yeah,

29:25
that was that that was that was important, actually, that, you know, I felt like I was drowning with things that needed doing, and they needed doing now, and I was putting all of this pressure on myself and and actually, the solution was to not do that, you know, but actually resting. You know, there's one thing sitting on the sofa with all these thoughts going around your head and all this guilt and all this, you know, the lack of productivity that that that people with ADHD struggle with, you know, that's not rest. That's. You, that's, that's you being stuck, and that's a painful place to be, because you feel rubbish, you feel useless, you you, it's really obvious the things that you need to do, but you can't seem to put the plan in place to do that. And that's not rest, that's, that's kind of being paralyzed or being stuck. I think, however, there are other ways to rest where you're not stuck in that situation. So for me, films and video games and really importantly, that night when I when I think I complained to you about all these legal things we had going on, and you just said, you just go and get a Christmas tree. And I think at first I was probably like, you know, Mom, I've got so much I wonder, how could I possibly go and get a Christmas tree? And then it dawned on me that actually, what better way to kind of move into your home than to go and buy a Christmas tree? So we went out that night. We ignored the jobs that we needed to do. We actually accepted the fact that enough, the world isn't going to stop if we do them tomorrow. And we had an evening of not doing jobs, and we set up the tree, and we enjoyed the tree buying process, and we we put lights up, and lo and behold, the next day, I had an amazing, productive day, because the weight that was taken off me by I guess, doing nice things, things that you actually enjoy was huge. Was huge. So that was definitely an important lesson and something that we have now. You know, after the reminder, I think from my mum, it is something that we do try and implement now, like, if it's not happening that day, take the pressure off of yourself and try again tomorrow. But what can you do tonight? Because if you're going to sit there and stir and berate yourself and be your own worst enemy effectively then, well, that's not, that's not very helpful either. So do something that you will enjoy.

31:47
Yeah, definitely, definitely, I think that's really important. And and also, so now, but now the real fun started, because now the renovations are on, so now I am back, and so we're all good, so I am doing my stuff now. So we're all good, because I was, I felt like a terrible, you know, because I know this is the job that I do, and I could have been so helpful, but I was at the other side of the world having a lovely time while you were struggling with all this. But anyway, that's by the by that was just the life circumstances. But in a lot of ways, I think it's good for you to go through it yourself. So, so exciting times ahead, Luke, with the new house, congratulations, of course, on your new house. Now, one of the things that we didn't explore in the last podcast loop was your creativity. And you are a very creative person. I have no idea where that comes from, because me and dad are not creative at all and so, but yeah, you're a creative person, and spend a lot of your time doing stuff. Let's talk about that.

32:35
I think that's true. I feel like as long as I can remember, which I think is like 11 years old or something, but I've definitely engaged with the creative side of life, and that looks different all the time, but, but I just enjoy creating in different ways. So I think that one of my main, I suppose, therapeutic outlets, is, is drawing, illustration and drawing, and sometimes painting and things like that. So I do that a lot, and have done that for many years. I think that gives me, it really does kind of calm the mind. You know, you get stuck into a drawing and everything else kind of stops for a little while. So it's very, it's very decompressing, and it's very, it distracts you, I think, from other things. It takes your mind of things. You know, you the mind doesn't really wonder. For me when I'm actually in the middle of drawing, sometimes it does, and that's when I can't really draw, but, but actually a lot of the time it helps me. So I love doing that, and I've done that for a long time, and I suppose I've been been kind of illustrating now for so long that it's it's ended up kind of opening up a few other creative avenues for me. So, you know, over the last few years, I've done a lot of mural work where, actually, you know, businesses, local businesses, have commissioned myself and my friend to to do that. So few years ago, I was painted a mural in a prison, which was really, really cool. And we were on an actual, an actual wing of the prison in Warrington, after everyone was back in their cells and stuff, but we painted a mural at the end of that, which was really, really cool to do, and we did one in a bank, and done various things for smaller companies, you know, independent businesses and and online businesses, like vintage stores. Someone was making hot sauce and things like that, which opened up a lot of avenues. Because, you know, I suppose if you can draw things and a variety of things, then it, then it can be applicable to a variety of businesses and things like that. So it has definitely had, has definitely generated some supplementary income for me as well. But if I'm being honest with you, the things I love the most never involve money. So I think quite early on into this creative kind of journey of. Mine, there was a period right at the start where I felt like I should monetize this. I should make this my business, or I should, I should do this full time, and then I get a little bit later down the line, and I realize, I think that would take all of the fun out of it for me. And actually the Create, the creative bit, would actually disappear, and instead, it would be reactive based on what other people want. So for that reason, I am quite I pick and choose the commissions and things quite, quite carefully. I do definitely look, look inward and think, am I going to hate doing this? Or actually, if I hate doing this, am I getting paid well enough for it? You know, there are some questions that definitely make me think, shall I do this or not? And because it's not my entire full time job, I don't need to live off of that money. It allows me to be quite cheaper, picky, you know, in that kind of way. But I think that's a useful thing to throw in that, you know, that might relate to some people. But yeah, the creative side of my life is really important. And I think I get a real buzz of projects that I'm passionate about. You know, one thing that I love doing, I love music, and I love dance music in particular, and living in Manchester, which has such a history of that, you know, when there was an opportunity to work with a couple of my friends and start a night of our own, effectively became promoters and booking DJs and hiring venues and stuff. You know, not only does that give me a creative a creative outlet in events, in the event space and in the music space, and the kind of the global dance music scene like, that's really, that's, that's a hugely creative part. It also gives me an outlet, then, for the illustration and the drawing side, because then I can, I can, I'm continually doing posters and, you know, kind of graphics and things for use, for that, for that kind of night that we put on. So it, it pops up in different ways in my life. But the, I think, the one resounding things that I just enjoy the creative process in a variety of ways. And most recently, and we will come on to this, but most recently, working with my mum and Ingrid on the upcoming book was really cool. I won't go into it now, because I know you probably got a question, but that you know, that that's, that's part of it is, I can, I can work with so many people, including, you know, my mum and Ingrid, which is so exciting. Yes,

37:28
it was interesting that you said the ones that you prefer working on are the ones that you don't get paid for. Luke. So it's like, you like, kind of went straight into that. So, yeah, so, you know, we say upcoming book, and, you know, spoiler alert, we did record this before the book was published, but now, on the day that this is coming out, that book with Luke's illustrations in it is life, which is, like, quite scary. It's available. It's published. We are authors. You are a published illustrator as well. Now Luke as well. So, yeah. So if you have bought our reset your home book, and you look at all the lovely little illustrations on the top of each chapter, they're done by my wonderfully creative son, and we're very, very excited last night at the book launch party that we did, all your illustrations were out there in on the big not on the big screen, but on big things for everybody to see. And it was so super cool. So yeah, when we when we first sort of started the book, I was like, you know, looked at a few other books. I was like, I'd love Luke to do the illustrations, because we can really then get something that we feel fits the book perfectly and fits it fits each chapter, rather than, you know, getting something else to fit in. And so we asked, and you delivered Luke, didn't you? So, yeah, check out those illustrations. They are from Luke.

38:45
Yeah. And what the reason I loved that working on that was because I kind of got plonked in the middle of a creative process that was already in full flow. You know, like you and Ingrid worked hard to come up with the concept for the book and every section of the book. So the creative ideas were already flowing. And so it made it made my job of finding illustrations for them really easy and exciting. You know, if someone came to me with a blank book, instead, I need 20 illustrations. Go. Be like, where, where do I start? What? What's the what's the anchor point for me? But actually, with, with the really good ideas that you guys already had for the actual content and narrative of that book, finding ways to kind of symbolize the sections and things was, was really, really fun. So yeah, I really enjoyed that. And it's, and it's just, well, it's just a pleasure to be part of something really exciting for, for the decor hub community, for for my mum, and Ingrid specifically. And so, yeah, that was, that was, that was truly a passion project. You know that that's nothing to do with, do I get paid enough or, or do I kind of in. You know, do I kind of enjoy this? Is this okay? That was, that was an obvious, yes, you know, to work on that for a variety of reasons. So really,

40:08
to be fair, this all happened in that same period when you were moving house as well. Just yeah, so I did add my own stresses into Luke's space as well, which I feel a little bit guilty about while I left the country and went on holiday and down to London. To London. But anyway, that's

40:23
life, isn't it? Yeah, flies. And I think we spoke about this throughout that period, where you were quite kind in saying, If you can't do it, you know, or if things are or things are too much, and you need to focus on the house, then then do that. And I think every single time I pushed back and said, it doesn't matter how I'm feeling. You know, I want, I want to do this and, and therefore, unfortunately, it's going to be difficult to navigate it and, and maybe that's where medication comes in. And certain management techniques with a calendar and actually saying, No, you know when as the diet, as you calendar, starts to fill up with Christmas things. This was also in December, you know, so we were getting the keys to do the illustrations. It was the build up to Christmas. It was the final, final quarter at work. You know, a lot of things colliding at once, but that's just what life does. And I think an easy option would have just been to say no to a lot of things and put them off, and but then I think I would have felt quite sad that I'd missed that opportunity to work with you guys on that. So actually, it wasn't a case of yes or no. It was a case of Yes, it is happening. And now, how do I manage, you know, my own ADHD and my own lifestyle and schedule to make sure that this can happen and, and I think that's where an open conversation with you happened. And I did actually have some extensions, didn't I on, on getting those illustrations in. And, you know, there were, we had to manage that process. But, you know, the, I think, what it, what it shows that life just, you know, you go from having nothing on for months as I'm sat there in limbo waiting for the House to complete, and then as if, as if, by magic, the house completes on the same week that 10 other things are needed, but that's life and ADHD and life are are a difficult combination, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean it's an impossible combination, and I think that's where you have to implement a lot of different things to kind of get through that. But then you get to sit back and look at the illustrations in the book, and look at the house that you bought, and look at how you manage work for the last year, and you get to say, I did that, you know, and I can do that, and it was hard, but, but I'm proud of myself for that. So yeah, there were a lot of learnings from that as well.

42:44
Well, Luke, I absolutely love it. I think that that's the perfect summary of your life the past couple of years since we last spoke to you. Well, not since I last spoke to because that wouldn't be great. It's more money since the declutter podcast last spoke to you. So massive, massive. Thank you, of course, to you from Ingrid and I for doing those illustrations. We're so excited to have another bit of our personal life in that book. It's very special to us. It's very important to us. So absolutely, absolutely delighted that we could make that happen. Thank you, as always, for sharing your ADHD journey and how it's developing. I'm sure at some point you'll be back on the podcast again at some point to talk about how things have evolved again. Because, as we said at the beginning, it you know, ADHD, as life ebbs and flows, and your ability to deal with it well, thanks.

43:31
Thanks for having me again. Thank you to you and Ingrid and and everyone in the in the decor community as well. It's, it's really, really nice to be able to come on maybe, maybe help someone. Maybe people can relate in the way that I find useful, kind of listening to other people. But thanks for letting me kind of tell myself things as well. Because I think I struggle to to think that, but then I say it out loud to you guys, and I might, oh yeah, okay, so that works for me as well. So thank you for the opportunity, and, and yeah, and also well done for the book, because it's, it's really, really cool to see that in fruition now. And as published authors, a massive congratulations as well. Oh,

44:13
thank you so much, Luke. And if you've not bought our lovely reset your home, unpack your emotions and your clutter, step by step book yet. Why not? Because you'll be able to see our words and Luke's lovely illustrations together. So you can go to declutter.com forward slash book, and you can find all the information about the print version, the audio book version and the e book version. If you are in the US and Canada, it's going to be a little bit longer till it's published. It's published. It's not going to be published until June, so you'll have to go down the ebook or the audio version if you want to get your hands on that right now. So thank you so much, Luke for being here. Thank you for closing out Ingrid and Lesley week. Finally, Ingrid and Lesley week is over and we are back to normal podcasting. So we will see. You next Friday. Thanks for listening.

45:06
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hook podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode and we'll see you next week.
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