A photo of guest Amy Revell sitting at a desk smiling into camera
Episode 357 – Identifying your clutter problem with Amy Revell

It’s Ingrid and Lesley go global week and we are heading to Australia. We're joined by Amy Revell, a leading decluttering and organising expert all the way from Melbourne, Australia. Amy is Australian organising royalty, so we’re delighted she is joining me on the show to discuss how identifying your clutter problem can help you on your decluttering journey.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
It's Ingrid and Lesley Go Global week, and today we are heading to Australia. Today we're joined by Amy Revell, a leading decluttering and organising expert all the way from Melbourne, Australia. Amy is Australian organising royalty, so we're delighted she's joining me on the show today, Amy is deeply passionate about helping people find freedom from clutter so they can discover their purpose and truly live life. Get ready for fresh, practical insights from the host of The Art of decluttering podcast, and it's a real, honest conversation, and we're going to talk about the thinking and doing of decluttering. So let's dive in.

00:52
You're listening to the declutter hook podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts decluttering and organising your home. Now, here's your host, Ingrid Jansen,

01:15
hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome, what you'll find is that we try and find the fun factor in the serious business of decluttering. And if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast, it all takes place in our free Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm and supportive community. Go to the clutter, help.com forward slash group to find out more. Well, hello, Amy. Thank you for being on this very special episode in Ingrid and Lesley Go Global week. How lovely to have you here. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you ingot. I love that go global has included us down under. That's pretty exciting, absolutely. I mean, when Lesley and I started the declutter hub and we started the podcast, we just thought our few people in the UK were listening, and soon we were like, wow, oh, wow. We've got listeners in in Australia and New Zealand and Canada and America and Europe. This is so exciting. And then we set up the membership, and we have members from all over the world as well. So of course, we could not go global without including you guys down under, right? But sort of the things I love about the decluttering world in podcasting is that you can kind of get bits, and you get the same kind of general vibe from all of us, because we're so passionate about it. You get tips and tricks on different personalities and different ways of doing things. So I just think that's the best. I love it. Oh, thank you so much. So do you actually live in Melbourne yourself? I know you cover Victoria. Of course, Australia is so big I had to google it, because I've never been to Australia. It's so on my bucket list. How one day I know it's so high on the list, I would love to, I would love to so it is, are you in Melbourne yourself? I am. I'm right in the heart of Melbourne. I'm just outside of the city, and we're just heading into the cooler months now, so I see that you're dressed like it's quite warm, and then I'm starting to rug up on this side of the planet at the moment. Yeah, I know. I know. And we've got, of course, we've got an a nine hour time difference as well. So we don't only have changes in seasons, but we also have a time difference. And I know we're quite lucky at this moment, because it's only nine hours and not 11 or 12, that it can be as well, right? Yeah, we've done well. We've done very well. Now you have done the art of decluttering podcast. I I've for ages as well. So when, when did you start? And why did you start? Yeah, so I've been doing the art of decluttering as a business for about 11 years, but the podcast for about eight and I think, like, what my business has evolved to is like, where the people are and the information they want is where I'm at. And so it started off just doing in home services. And very quickly I wrote my first book, because lots of people outside of where I could actually service were like, hang on. Can you teach us this? I was like, Absolutely, this is a learnable skill. Let me help you, which is exactly what you and Lesley have done, which just fills my heart with so much joy. And then a friend of mine introduced me to podcasting, and I was like, Oh, my goodness, this is incredible. And have not looked back from a podcasting perspective, because you you get to not only have conversations instead of it's it feels two way in a podcast, even if you're doing solo episodes, it feels like you're having a conversation with your friends. And so you can, you know, over a period of time, take people on a journey and really discover and explore and be curious about all the different ways that decluttering and organising impacts on our worlds. Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more.

05:00
I think, apart from the fact I start, I started a couple of years earlier than you did, around 2010 2011 the similarities between us are like crazy, right? Because we were talking before we started hit record that we're like our kids are the similar age. We both love decluttering so much still, you know, even hands on work. Our podcast as well started in 2018 kind of that time. So it's incredible, honestly, how we are the same at opposite sides of the world. I know we're like sisters just doing their decluttering thing. I know I know exactly now. Why did you get started in the first place with being an organiser. What? What sparked the what's what sparked it all? Yeah, I would say that I was Ingrid, a very good organiser before I was a very good declutterer. And when my kids were little, everything had a home. Everything was labeled, but we kept everything, and so we kept the clothes they'd grown out of, but they were perfectly in boxes. They were clean. They were labeled. I knew exactly what size they were. We kept all of the toys, and it just became, like, really overwhelming, because I some days, would spend hours cleaning up and tidying up, and so people would come over and you'd think, oh, wow, her house is really organised. But it wasn't until I discovered the power of decluttering that I went from like, just overwhelmed and busy to actually, like finding freedom from clutter and going, Oh, if you have less, you don't have to organise as much. Yeah, if you have less, you've got freedom to do the things that you love with the people that you love. And so for me, it was a real shift from just knowing about the importance and the power of organising to kind of like, unlock the superpower of decluttering, which really is foundational. You need to do that before you can master organising. Yeah, because what we see all the time, right? And I'm sure you see the same thing, people who have a lot of clutter think they need to buy boxes and containers and put labels on things so they can get more organised. Yeah, well, we know it's not about the boxes and about the labels, which is lovely. That's the 5% at the end. We know the family end. Yes, we know the power is in decluttering, right? The power in is what is important enough to keep in my life, we talk a lot about, not what are you going to throw away or throw out or trash? Or we talk about what is important enough to keep? What are the things that make you happy? And once you know that, then you can look at the rest and go, What is all this stuff doing in my house? Yeah. And one of the things that I often talk about Ingrid is identifying the problem is a really important first step, because a lot of people assume, as you said, that the problem is an organizational problem. But usually, and I always say, start here first. Do you have a quantity problem? Because you can't move on to a maintenance problem or a systems problem, if you haven't dealt with the quantity problem. And so I think when you can master that, then you can move on to solving the next problems. But you've kind of got to come back to the foundations of if you've got too much stuff, you're never going to finish being organised like that's just an impractical way of looking at it, even though it's our natural lens. Often, yeah, I think that is so true, because I think and it's all wrapped up with each other as well, right? The quantity of stuff. Is it indeed a problem with the structures? Is it the location? Is it the organising? Is it the not doing the chores, or not doing the chores often enough, the maintenance it, and people who are overwhelmed with clutter, it can all get muddled, right? And then throw in a bit of, yeah, my cleaning is like, I can't clean anywhere, so I'm behind on that, and this other room needs to be painted, and I need to do some DIY, and stuff is broken and and then it all gets a whole heap of I need to declutter and DIY and clean and tidy and organised. And what do I do first? Now, yeah, and it's very overwhelming. One of the things I can I jump to talking about how great your book is. Oh, I know it's like, you guys go global week, but I just if, if you have not read it, you need to. Because one of the things that really stuck out for me is you guys talk about the thinking before the doing, and like, as you just spoke, you identified, like, all these possible problems, but until we can actually think about them, the doing can often be ineffective. Like the thinking is like sharpening the sword and determining kind of your plan of action, so that when you do the doing, it's an effective use of your time and energy. Yeah, yeah. Well, well, thank you. I was going to ask, I was going to ask you about, you know, what did you think about the book? But thank you for saying that you absolutely loved it, and it was such

09:57
a wonderful opportunity to write, how.

10:00
How Lesley and I feel about decluttering, because Lesley is a professional organiser as well. We each run our own businesses together. We're the declutter hub, so we've been in people's homes. We did the decluttering and organising for years and years and years, 1000s of projects, 1000s of clients, and what we figured out along the way, and what we are so aligned on together as well, is that you have to understand the emotions that sit behind clutter, because what we see out there is all about

10:33
stuff, stuff, stuff, boxes, containers, labels, stuff. What are you going to do with the stuff? How you going to get rid of the stuff? What are you going to all and we're like, hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. You have to kind of look first at, why, what? Why is, you know, why is the clutter there? What are the Why am I holding on to it? What are the emotions that sit behind this clutter? And why is it so hard to declutter? Because so many people make out at the cluttering is easy, but if you're very overwhelmed, you're like everybody says, this is easy, but I find it really hard. Am I the only one who finds this hard? And once you start to unravel these emotions, yeah, then you can kind of go, oh. And I'm really glad that you as a fellow professional organiser. It makes me proud that you as a fellow professional organiser says you really need to read this book, because it's a fantastic book and that thank you so much for that.

11:32
Can I tell you specifically, yes, there's a compliment. And then let me tell you specifically, like there were so many things, one of the things I loved is your subtitles are the best subtitles I've ever seen in a book. Now, most people don't, you know that's not what most people are leaving literary reviews about. However, I think that actually what you guys have done is you've sign posted what can be an otherwise quite overwhelming job of decluttering. You know, resetting your home can can actually feel quite overwhelming, but you haven't just sign posted with chapters. Like, the signposts are a kind way to guide people, where you feel like you're getting chunks and you're going on a path, and it's like, sequential and it's intentional. Like, honestly, I know I'm nerding out, but I have never love subtitles. Subtitles like, and I don't mean subtitles like, when you're watching a film and they come up down the bottom, I mean the subtitling of the chapters. It was really, really powerful. Like, I think you guys did a really great job in thinking about who's reading the book, where they're at, what they're feeling, and actually then taking them on that journey. Like, yeah, it was. I had a lovely nerd moment enjoying those Oh,

12:45
thank you so much. And you know, yes, of course, just, just for clarity, listeners, we did, of course, send Amy the book a couple of weeks before this recording, because we were like, you know, we would love to invite you to the podcast, and we want to hear all about you, but here's our book, and have a read. And you just came back with the most glowing email saying, Wow, I absolutely love the book. And I think from hearing that from your peers is is such a wonderful and you're such an expert as well yourself. You've been in the industry for a long time. You you work with, you know, you've got a team, you've got a podcast. So we appreciate you know, those, those lovely comments, because I think it's lovely to hear when you get nice feedback, right? And it's from somebody that you that you respect and that you are, you know, thinking, you know, it's on such a high level in organising as well, that's fantastic. So thank you for that. Oh, my pleasure. You guys have done really well. Thank you. It was a labor of love, as most of our listeners know Lesley did the writing itself. Because, of course, although I am a fluent speaker, I can write quite well, but I cannot write as well as Lesley, but she was the one who wrote. But of course, it's our thoughts and our system and we we worked on it together, collaboratively and but yes, especially those subtitles on things that that is all Lesley. She's She's amazing. So you Lesley? No, definitely. So if you have to, kind of, if you look at the book as a whole, you love the the subtitles, you love the thinking and the doing. Did our order make sense? Kind of the way we kind of put it together, and the way we go through people's houses, because there was a yes, there's a whole thought behind it, obviously, exactly yeah. And I think it's really smart, because you your experience shows that some areas are harder and some areas are easier, and some areas are more kind of generic. It's relatively similar for every home. And some areas, you're like, wow, every home is completely different in this way. And so I think kind of taking people gently through that is a really kind way of doing it. I also think it's a really smart way of doing it, because you build your decluttering muscle. Actually think you had like a little pop out in one of your books around the decluttering muscle, which I loved, because you.

15:00
As professional organisers, we talk about this decluttering muscle all the time, which is, the more that you do something, the more familiar it becomes, the stronger you become, the more easy it is for you to make decisions. And so I think that you actually naturally build that with the reader as they progress through, which I think enables them to have greater success, which is literally the reason that you wrote the book. You didn't just write a book because you guys had nothing better to do. It's because you care about your listeners and your readers. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think and our listeners and readers and members were asking us for it as well for years, like, when are you going to write a book? When are you going to write a book? And we're like, it's on the list, and then when a publishing house approached us, we were like, Okay, it's gone from the list on the low on the list. It's gone really like on number one of the list. Now we need to do this, because they also convinced us that our message was so important to be heard. It is, yeah, one of the things that stood out for me is you wrote a bit about not allowing other people's relationships with stuff to distract you from what you're doing. So, you know, you might be decluttering, and someone else is like, oh, you can't get rid of that, or trying to sabotage you, or just like, No, I'm not getting rid of my stuff. And I really liked just kind of identifying that as a problem, because I think that people experience that all the time. Sometimes that person is ourselves Ingrid. Sometimes it's ourselves going, Oh, maybe I shouldn't Oh, maybe I should just go for a walk instead. But sometimes it's literally other people that we live with which can be tricky. Yeah, yeah. I think it's really important to when you are on your decluttering journey is to see that is your journey. And you might get some passengers on the, you know, coming to join you on this journey, Yeah, but you're on it. And I think that's why it's so important to start in easier rooms and to start with kind of rooms that, well, you're in charge of sound to it. But I mean, when you have a, you know, live in a house, you all kind of have areas that you are kind of more responsible for than, I don't know how it works in your house, but, like, Yeah, I know which. Like, I'm I'm not good, I'm Tech, I'm Tech, I'm not bad, you know, I'm bad at, like, wires and cables and things. So that is definitely something that my husband does. Well, I do kind of other rooms that are more kind of my forte, the the clothes, the the more the kids clothes, they're getting older now, but you know, you you've got your forte, so work in those remits first, because I think when a lot, when there's a lot of clutter, it's so easy to go but I want to get rid of that stuff. That's not my stuff, because that seems so much easier, so much easier. And we're not emotionally attached, and we're like, No, you need to get rid of that. And then when they turn around, say, but what about your pile? Oh, yeah, maybe I should focus on that exactly. So we always say, you know, start with your own rooms, with your own clutter, with your own clothes, with your own books, with your own you know, do it in that order,

18:02
and slowly but surely, other people in the house, if, if there's more people in your family are gonna go, huh? This is interesting.

18:12
I might have one or two things myself that I'm no longer using, and it will never go fast enough, because the people who are on a decluttering journey, they're changing their mindset day after day. So they're like looking at the others, going, when are you coming on board? When are you coming on board? But you can't force that issue, can you? No, you can't. And if you do, you're likely to have them kind of push back. It's like the the elastic band theory, where if you pull away, they'll come a bit closer, but it can, it can stretch it too far, and then they bounce away and you push them away, rather than drawing them along with you. Yeah, yeah. I think that that's a fantastic analogy, absolutely right. You know what? Let's go for a quick break. And I would love to know more about the clutter problems that you've identified. We touched upon quantity a little bit, but I would love to talk to you more, because you talk a lot about that in your community as well. So I really, really would like to know more about that. So we'll see you soon. Hi everyone. Welcome back. I'm so proud and delighted to be chatting with Amy Ravel from the art of the cluttering podcast, all the way down under. She's in Melbourne, Australia, and I mean, Amy, I forgot to tell you the other, only other Australian organiser we've ever interviewed is Peter Walsh, so

19:27
it's about time you guys got represented on this show. That's great. I'm in good company with Peter. Definitely. I know he's he's everywhere, isn't he? So he is. He's a good Melbourne boy as well. Easy. Oh, I didn't know. I hadn't realized that. Well, thank you for being here. It's so nice to talk to you now you also, you say, you know, you've got the podcast you still do in house organising. You've got a team of people. You've got a community of people around you as well. And you talk a lot about identifying clutter.

20:00
Problems. I would love to know more. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, what I found Ingrid is I was talking to people a lot about solutions. I'm like, just naturally who I am. I'm a Solutions person. Like, I have to bite my tongue when friends just want to have a chat and vent because I want to come up with a solution. And so I found, like I was talking solutions. But then I went, Oh, I don't think people can identify what problems are. And so what they do is they just pick a random solution that they might hear on the podcast or see on socials. But until you get the problem right, it actually is not, you're not solving the right problem. And so what I did is identified four different problems that people have. So people might have a motivation problem where they just can't get started. They look at the clutter, maybe they're walking at the end of the day and go, Oh, I just hate coming home. I hate when people pop over. I don't like this house. And so what I did then is when, okay, here's the problem. But what is the solution? And I think for a motivation problem, the solution is to set vision to actually know, like, Why do I want to do this? This is not a vision of, like, a Pinterest board. This is more about vision of, who am I? What do I want to feel in my home? How do I want to experience my night times? How do I want my relationships within the home? How do I want it to be when there's three loads of laundry? Is that overwhelming, or can I quickly whip through those. And so I think once you've got that vision, then often what people want to do, which we talked about earlier, is they want to go to the shops, buy the containers, label things, and make it all pretty. But actually, there's a problem in between, and that problem is the quantity problem, and that's when you've just got too much stuff. So it might be that you've got just overall too much stuff, like the quantity is just excessive everywhere. Or it might be that you've just got too many clothes for the wardrobe that you have. Maybe you've moved house, the wardrobe is a bit smaller. And now what was was not a quantity problem all of a sudden, is because you just don't have that space anymore. And so the solution for a quantity problem is to declutter. Like that's the only solution. You have to declutter the quantity down. And then you end up with, Okay, what's the next problem? Actually, I feel like I'm decluttering all the time, or I feel like I'm tidying up all the time. And then maybe you've got a systems problem, which is, where do things live? How are they stored? What's the what's the way that I'm organising the items that I've kept? How am I? How am I going to organise that in my home? And so then you start to go, Okay, now we're dealing with the organization we want to keep, like, with like, want to use containers wisely. And so you then that's kind of the fun bit. Like, I love the decluttering bit, but a lot of people love that organising bit. But then there's another problem that we often encounter, and that is that you can't keep on top of it, and so you feel like you're constantly going back three steps, or you're spending hours every week tidying and organising, putting things away, but you feel like you're never quite getting ahead. And so I was like, I think then we have a maintenance problem,

22:59
and the solution to a maintenance problem. It's just habits. It's don't put it down, put it away. It's just getting into the rhythm of living in an organised home, which I think that you and Lesley actually teach really, really well. It's not just about kind of setting vision, it's not just about decluttering, it's not just about organising, but it's like, how are you going to live so that you can live in this space well, maintain this space well, and that's when you get to enjoy the freedom of it. And all of those problems are not linear. It's not like you go, A, B, C, D, tick the box, give me a certificate. I'm done, yeah. But when you can identify, like, why the wheels are falling off, you can actually be much more efficient with kind of the solution, and much more directed to solve the actual problem. Yeah,

23:43
you're I'm like, Yeah, exactly.

23:47
You would think, after like, 10 years of like, doing all this and all of a sudden I had words for it. I went, Oh, this makes so much sense. It's universal. It's not just Amy specific, it's universally. These are the different stages we go through. Yeah? So it's only as good teachers we want to help you identify and actually process every step of the way. Yeah, yeah. It's exactly what you say when we when you you talk about vision and you talk about motivation, we say, what's your big picture goal? What is the reason why you're why you're doing this? Yeah, yeah. I want a tiny house, yeah, but that's not specific enough. Why do you want a tidy house? Why is it because you want to have your friends over for a coffee? Is it because you want to open the door without being embarrassed? Is it because you want to have your grandchild to stay that your children can have play dates without them telling their mom, like, wow, that house is like, you know, toys were everywhere, and it was really chaotic. I had a great time. But, you know, you know all the what's, what's your why, what's your big picture goal? And when you've got that in mind, you can go, Okay, how now? How am I going to break this down? Because you can't say I want to do my whole house.

25:00
Yes, it's like saying I want to climb Mount Everest.

25:04
How do you do that? So you need to go right? This is where I'm going to start, and that's why we do this order in the book, which we advise. But we're not like you said. We're not linear, we're not like this is the only way we say, if it were up to us, we would start here and move your way through and exactly what you say from for me, especially me as a professional organiser as well, working with clients, the decluttering is really important. Yeah, I always want to be with clients. You can't say but here's my house. Can declutter it because I'm like, these are your things. You need to make decisions. I want to teach you how to make decisions about this stuff. We need to look at the quantity. Maybe you're a we need seven towels per person family. Fine. If you go to the gym and the beach and you do sports five times a week, and you're like in the fresh towel every every day when you you are a seven towel per person. I am a three towel per person family, because, you know, I reuse my towels. I hang them up. They're not in a heap on the floor getting like all like getting.

26:12
So, you know what? I mean, it's not about the numbers. We can guide to say, well, you want to have one in the cupboard, one in the wash one on the thing one that makes sense. But maybe you are just, you know, you everybody lives their own life. So you can't put quantity on things, but it can. It can help in certain occasions. And then, of course, indeed, the organising. I love that as well, that you say it's a like with like, it's a place for everything. Everything in its place, it is what makes sense to you. Do do people ask you as well? Amy, all the time, can you just copy your house in my house, and I will be fine, yeah. Can you tell me where this belongs? And I'm like, I can't tell you where it belongs, but I've got some questions that'll help us get

27:00
there. We are such soul sisters. Anyway, we are souls. It's true, isn't it, they're like England, but you're an organised person. You tell me why you keep this in your house? And I'm like, Well, I keep this in my house, in that drawer, in that cupboard, in that box, and I can tell you exactly where, yeah, but you don't have that covered, that drawer in that place, so, and I don't live with you, yeah? Where would you look for it? What would you make sense to you? Yeah, and you need to teach people categorizing, right? Yes, what belongs together, what makes sense to live in the same cupboard? Yeah, everybody knows they want to have their socks and underwear together, but there's so many other things. They're like, but I don't even know where I would look for it, and I'm like, Well,

27:43
what would be the other thing that would make sense to put together? Yeah, like, when you're when you're organising your gift wrapping, maybe it would make sense to have a pair of scissors in there and bit of sticky tape, you know, like, you've gotta think really, practically, not just like, it's not a store, it's your home and you want to make your life easy. So, yes, you can have all of your tape in one cupboard in the study, but if you're wrapping gift wrapping stuff, is it the other end of the house, not anywhere near it, then actually that's annoying for you. Make it simple. There's actually no rules. Yeah, you get to do it your way, but like, use some of the guidelines of people who have walked before you, because we've got some experience, not just because of our own homes, the 1000s of homes that we've been in as well. Yeah, exactly, exactly, completely agree. And then, of course, I'm so glad you're also touching on maintenance, because that's always a bit forgotten, isn't it? It's like, yeah, it's really forgotten, but then you're ripping people off, like you're not giving people all the tools. Yeah, yeah. And I think as well, I think a lot of people think, I think they still see decluttering as a project, yeah. And I'm always like, decluttering is like laundry, it never stops.

29:01
And you can make it easier, can't you? Because you can make the laundry easier. Yeah, you can make it that you don't have 15 baskets. So you can never have 15 baskets of laundry to sort. And in the same way, you can have good habits so that it doesn't take you huge amounts of time, but it does require time. Soon as there are live humans in your house, you kind of need to go through this process, whether it's as part of your weekly habit or monthly habit, or seasonal habit or daily habit. It's gotta be in there somewhere. Yeah, yeah. We talk a lot about daily resets and non negotiables. So what do you need to do on a daily basis? So you're even if you've got like, a super busy day, what are the couple of things that have to be done so you don't go the next day, oh, and washing up or do putting a dishwasher on, or doing the washing up by hand, if you're not as lucky enough to have a dishwasher, that's kind you know, that's, that's where it starts, right? Because you the next day you want.

30:00
Drink from your mug. And because we all have a favorite mug, don't we? We all have, you know, you want to empty the recycling, you kind of, you know you need to feed the pets you need to you know, there's things you have to do every day. And once you start to get those daily resets and do your future self a favor, then you can kind of start to build on that, because then it all doesn't come down to the weekend, right? Well, otherwise you end up robbing your free time, because if you can habit stack and you just happen to while you're just before you brush your teeth, you make sure there's no dirty clothes on the floor of the bathroom, that might take you 15 seconds, but if it's constantly, like, a mental tab open in your brain, of like, oh, I keep walking past that bathroom and three kids have left socks and undies and there's a pair of footy shorts, then if you let that build up, you've got to keep it in your brain. That's the bit that I struggle with. I do not have the brain power to have all these mental tabs open. Like, I just need to do it now and close that tab down. And that's a gift to my future self, because she's already going to have plenty of things on her plate tomorrow, and so if I can just not add another one, I'm happy. Yeah, I love that. I love that I'm having a mental tab open, because I think people do have so much in their brains, right? Yeah. And then it all starts to whirl. And then, yeah, the procrastination and the kind of the paralyzing like, oh, what now? And I don't even know where to start anymore, yeah. One of the things Ingrid I identified myself doing about 12 months ago is I would walk past something that needed doing. It might have been I needed to pick up something off the ground. A cupboard was open, something was left out, and I found myself going, might as well, like, instead of feeling like I needed to summon some kind of motivation, I was like, I actually don't need motivation for this. I just might as well do it. And it was the three second thing. But as soon as I started giving my permission myself, permission to out loud, go, might as well. It actually freed me to do so many of those little things that otherwise I would walk over, that I would turn a blind eye to, that I would procrastinate against. And so sometimes you don't even need motivation. Sometimes you just kind of need to just go, do you know what? Gotta do it at some point? I might as well do it now. Yeah,

32:27
I think, I think that's really, really fun. I agree. It's like, you know when people put stuff on the stairs to for them to bring it up, yeah? And you see everybody walk past it, and you're like, seriously, yeah, no, well, when I need to go up the next time, I might as well take it up, because it has to go up, and somebody's gonna get up at some point. Yeah, and you know what, I think once you also let go some of the things. Of course, you can, you know, because you can, you can nag all day, every day, can't you? Nobody's helping. But then when you start doing it yourself, and the volume start to go down and start because clutter can become so invisible, right? Yeah, yeah, don't see it anymore. You actually don't. It becomes completely visually unidentifiable to you. And so, you know, a good example of this is a couple of years ago. I started this little experiment at our house. So we've got, like, a window sill, and I love drinking Coke Zero. And so I wondered how observant my husband would be, and I just started putting empty cans up there, and I think we got to, like, 16 before he was like, why are there cans? Because one didn't notice it two, and then all of a sudden, it's visually invisible to him. He's not noticing. We don't notice the clutter. We just walk past and think, oh, no, that's just kind of where that lives. We've given permission for it to live in that space. Yeah, wow, that's interesting. I've I've never done it. I've never done that. I do so I do have a little window sitting in my bathroom where, like, empty toilet rolls go so I can recycle them, right? Because I don't throw them away. I put them to the side. And I sometimes really wonder why I'm the only one who kind of takes it all down every time, because I see it. They're not seeing it. I don't think it's an act of rebellion. I don't think the kids are like, You know what? Mom's going to deal with that. I think they just genuinely don't have an awareness of it often. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, you've got to, you have to work on that, and you've got to, you know, make sure that at one point other people are starting to contribute as well. Because, you know, when you live at home with the family, you know, everybody's got to contribute in their way, in in the best way they can. But I think it's also when there's loads of clutter, then also people go, but I don't know either what, where we start and what we do, right? So tithing on the room, it's like, well, I don't even know what that means, no. And I think like in my bedroom, if something's on the floor, that it's out of place, whereas, if I go to a client's house, there's 400 things on the floor, so I don't know what's out of place. Maybe.

35:00
That bowl should be in the kitchen, but it's not out of place. It's alongside all the other clutter. And so so many of the remedies for all of these things is less. It is actually living with less, because when you've got less bowls, you have to do less dishes, and when you've got less dishes, you have to unstack the dishwasher less. When you unstack the dishwasher less, you've got more time. Like less is the solution to so many of the frustrations that we feel in our homes. I think, yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think as well, I think what we see a lot as well is that people have things out because they think that having it out reminds me, then it's there. But I know mainly the problem is the reason they've got it out is because they can't put it away

35:48
because the cupboards are full. So one of the scariest things I say to people, and that we say in the membership in a book, you have to start with the cupboards. But they're like, Yeah, but, but I when I open the doors, things fall out, and I don't know what's in there, and I'm like, Yeah, because it got full, so the next lot had nowhere to be put so it was put out. Yeah? And now there's the problem. That's why there are floor drops and and exercise clothes piles on exercise machines and 15 baskets of laundry, because things can't be put away. So you have to start with the drawers and the wardrobes. And that's where having less, because then everything else starts to run, run smoother. Oh gosh, we're so like similar

36:41
and and I get, I feel like I just want to like, speak into people, directly to people's minds sometimes, when they're like, no, but if I put that jacket away, I'll forget that I've worn it. I'm like, but if you have less clothes, it'll be so easy to put it away and so easy to find it that so when it's like, I need it out in order to remember it often. That's because our brains are having so many tabs open that, yeah, you are going to forget it if you put away. That is actually a true thing. But when you have less and when there are only three outstanding pieces of paperwork, you're not going to forget and when you don't have clothes that you don't wear in the wardrobe, you're not going to forget that that black T shirt is your favorite because it's only like T shirt in your wardrobe? Well, you love all of the ones that you've got. Like it actually that, yeah, oh, wow, yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely,

37:32
I absolutely love the whole identifying the problem. And I think I've really realized even more now, after having a school fertilization, how much you know, how how alike we are in our teachings, how we sit behind our message, and how our message is so alike. And you know that's why you know it's such a pleasure to pleasure to talk to you and and thank you so much for for enjoying our book. So can I, can I then deduct that you would definitely recommend it to our friends in Australia, New Zealand, that yes, yes, grab a copy and no excuse, if you don't see it, just go online and get a copy. That's there's no excuse if you see it or not, you need to just go and get a copy. Well, thank you so much, Amy, for for being a guest here on our show. We've loved, I've loved absolutely talking to you, and yes, so Ingrid and Lesley Go Global week is in full swing, so you can keep enjoying podcasts every day. Because, of course, this month, our book is coming out, both in Australia, New Zealand, but also the US and Canada, and that's why we've got all these amazing guests on the show. And we hope you love our book. It's, it's, it's doing really well here in the UK. We're so proud of it. And yes, so go by Amy's recommendation and have a little bit and learn more about the thinking and doing. And our reset your home system. So thank you Amy, for for being here today. My pleasure. Thank you Ingrid,

39:13
thanks so much for listening to the declutter hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode. I will see you next week.
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Episode 357 – Identifying your clutter problem with Amy Revell

Episode 418 – Nesting isn’t just for new babies

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Episode 416 – 10 Things To Do Before You Die from a Decluttering Perspective

Episode 414 – Car Packing Hacks for Stress Free Travel

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Reset Your Home

Unpack your emotions and your clutter, step by step
