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Episode 178 – Embracing space as an empty nester

Episode 261 – The power of slow in a fast world with guest Carl Honoré

Episode 260 – How to get things done with a list

When your children aren’t around anymore, you are faced with a whole heap of emptiness - it can be tough to come to terms with but then you are also faced with their space and their stuff. How long do you need to keep their space and stuff intact and when do you start to do something different? In this podcast we delve into being an empty nester and some of what that entails.

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Transcript of this podcast episode

[00:00:00] Ingrid: When your children aren't around anymore, you are faced with a whole heap of emptiness. It can be tough to come to terms with it, but then you are also faced with their space and their stuff. How long do you need to keep their space and stuff intact? And when do you start to do something different? In this podcast, we delve into being an empty nester and some of what that entails.

[00:00:25] This week it's all about Empty nesters. Now, Lesley, you have a little bit more experience. I mean, I am still in the middle of teenage years, although I do wish sometimes that I'm like, It would be so nice and quiet if one or two of them go off to uni for a while, but hey, I'm in the throes of it, but you're, you're, you're a bit of an empty, a little bit of an empty nester, aren't you?

[00:00:49] Lesley: I feel like it's finite. I don't think it can be a bit of an empty nester. I feel like you either are an empty nester or not an empty nester. Don't 

[00:00:58] Ingrid: they come back like all the time? I hear from people like we think they're gone and then they keep coming back. 

[00:01:05] Lesley: I know. Well, we've not had that yet. I mean, I have experience of my children having left home.

[00:01:11] Some come back, some gone permanently. So Luke, my eldest son, he's 26. He has gone and I don't think he's ever coming back. I don't think he might do, but I don't think he's ever coming back. Um, Leah has been to uni, gone off, come back and she's now living permanently at home, Nathan is at uni and he's coming and going at the moment.

[00:01:33] So I think the only one that I can say that I understand about space and stuff and what you do is Luke. So I still have the rest of them firmly planted here at home. But yeah, we are talking about stuff and space and so we can talk about that with. Just one of them gone. That's, that is, that is true. 

[00:01:52] Ingrid: And we see it in our clients, don't we?

[00:01:54] We hear it from our members in our membership. We see it in our clients. We have an idea, right? Of what it is to, to be an empty nester or to get there slowly, but surely. 

[00:02:05] Lesley: Yes, and so of course it's really sad but we're not really here to talk about the sadness of your children fleeing the nest because that's not our remit or our expertise.

[00:02:13] But what we do manage is we manage space and stuff. And so we wanted what we wanted to talk about a little bit was how long do you keep their stuff for when they've gone, number one, and what do you do with their space once they've gone how long do you retain it in its original form. How long do you leave it.

[00:02:30] Sometimes it's a little shrine to your child. And some of that will be about you and not about them to be fair. So that's what we're going to chat about today. Isn't it? 

[00:02:39] Ingrid: Yeah, I think it's going to be quite interesting because it's now made me realize like, how did it happen when I kind of left? You know, for, for uni, but I think when I left for uni, my room at my parents house was still my room because I would come home on a, on a weekly basis because I would travel down because I would have, I had a weekend job at my, in my parents town.

[00:03:00] So I would come home every weekend. I would be back in the holidays. But then after I did my kind of my internship in Antwerp, I kind of then moved to Amsterdam. So. After that, I never really went back. So for a while, and I'm not thinking how, how long did my parents keep stuff? You know, I'm like, what, what did they do at the time?

[00:03:20] I think slowly, but surely things got to start to disappear. I think I need to have a talk with my mom about this. 

[00:03:27] Lesley: It's hard to remember. And I can't remember either. I think the interesting thing is. that parents typically do keep their children's rooms intact for a little while because you know psychologically you need to kind of retain that memory and it's not something that you want to let go of immediately.

[00:03:42] I don't think there's many people unless you really have to that would do that really quickly. Now, if I'm being really honest, I think I would have kept Luke's room intact for a little while longer, but our hand was forced a little bit through lockdown. And so all of a sudden we were faced with everyone working from home.

[00:03:59] So that was Steve, me, Leah, and Nathan. Now, luckily I've got my own office. Nathan had a bedroom, Luke had a bedroom, and Luke was, Steve, sorry, was down in a little tiny room in the basement without windows and stuff. And he did do like three or four months down there. And I'm like, This looks like it's going to be here for a while.

[00:04:18] We need to, why have we got this lovely big room, nice bright airy room that was Luke's bedroom? He's long gone now. We need to repurpose that into your office. And so I think that we did that quicker than I ordinarily have would because our hand was forced. And I think that's the case for a lot of people.

[00:04:34] We had to create. Working spaces from home. And so, you know, you had to go into your spare bedroom, which you wouldn't have done ordinarily. And so, our hand was forced. So, it was a little bit premature. And I think Luke was probably a little bit like, Awww. Like, so 

[00:04:50] Ingrid: sweet. Even he 

[00:04:53] Lesley: was 100 percent kind of like, I'm not bothered, I'm not living there anymore.

[00:04:56] I think when actually stuff vacated his room and was stuffed into a storage area downstairs, he was a little bit maudlin about the whole thing. Um, but yeah, I think it's a really interesting one. So it'll be interesting to see what happens when, when Leah and Nathan leave, because you know, we don't really need any other things.

[00:05:15] And so it'd be interesting to see what we do with their rooms and how long we keep them in the way that they are at the moment. Yeah. 

[00:05:21] Ingrid: Yeah, well, I I'm just thinking back now. I think my parents at the time bought a new bed So they're all beds, which was larger went up into my room So my desk disappeared my bed disappeared the bigger bed came up and then the sign of all signs The ironing board got there permanently Then you know with like no chance the ironing board was like so my mom didn't have to collapse it in it because she got one of those really kind of I tell you, it must be 40 years old.

[00:05:52] It's one of those really heavy ones that you kind of really have to force to go back in and up. And I think she was like, right, there's nobody here. I'm going to leave this out. And it was like. Okay, I think this is sign now. I'm not supposed to come back here. The ironing board is now in my 

[00:06:05] Lesley: room. Do you remember when ironing boards used to be wooden?

[00:06:08] Yeah. Used to be wooden, didn't they? Before like metal sort of ones. Yeah, they used to be wooden. You're just taking me right back to like 1977 or whatever. 

[00:06:16] Ingrid: I tell you, I think that's my mom's one. I think she just buys a new cover every decade or so. And then that's it. Because obviously, of course... As always, it is absolutely perfectly fine.

[00:06:25] So why would you buy a new one? Although it might be heavy, you just keep it permanently out because there's nobody in that room anyway. But nevermind. We're going completely off track with ironing boards, but of course, as you know, I love to talk about ironing, but that's not, not the, not the podcast. So I'm thinking if you've got two or three kids or you've got a really big house and you've got several kids leaving at some point, there's just the two of you left.

[00:06:52] Would you, I mean, this is maybe a bit of a personal question, Lesley, but would you ever consider downsizing or are you like, well, I love my house. So I'm going to stay there. Although it's like gigantic and there's two people living in it. How does that work? Yeah, I 

[00:07:05] Lesley: think it's about this is, and this is the whole purpose really of the podcast because we're very big advocates, aren't we, of living for the life that you lead at the moment and not in the past and not for the future.

[00:07:16] So that's a very interesting question. You know, I do have a nice big house. And if there was just just Steve and I in it, would it be too big? Absolutely. There's an element of like why was removed because hopefully at some point we might have other people in our family like grandkids and stuff. And so you'd like it to be a home for them too.

[00:07:34] We're not ready to leave at the moment, but I don't know because Leo and Nathan are still here. And so I don't have any plans. I think we will stay here for a little while, but I feel like people probably get to a stage where, well, this is just ridiculous because we've got all these rooms. It's costing us a fortune.

[00:07:50] So I think that that choice quite often is made because it's. It's a financial decision or a, you know, like for just to save money on bills and things like that. That's probably so. So I don't know because I'm not anywhere near that point at the moment, you know, Nathan's only 19 is going to be another few years.

[00:08:09] And so I'm a several years away from that. I think there is an element of people. Thinking that they want to keep retain their house for their grandchildren and stuff as well. So I think that's interesting. I think there's a lot of things we're talking about embracing space. So for me at the moment, it's about repurposing rooms in the house to be fit for what we need as a family.

[00:08:29] And so we have. So do you know what? Let's make Luke's bedroom into a kind of office space, come, and Steve's got a lot of stuff up there. So it's like his room as well. So I think there'll be a little more of that. I think you should move into rooms and repurpose them. So if you've always wanted a craft room, for example, it's time to create your craft room.

[00:08:48] If you've always wanted a reading room, you know, use these spaces for yourself. 

[00:08:53] Ingrid: Yeah. And I think, um, I mean, my mom downsized for health reasons because she was, she was living in rented property. for, for, for 40 or 50 years. I can't even remember how long it was, but at the, at, by that time, because my dad is unfortunately in a home, so he's not at home anymore.

[00:09:09] So she's just like, I've got all these flights of stairs, because of course in Holland, all the houses are quite narrow, but the flights of stairs are quite steep. So she was like struggling to get up and down. And then she got an opportunity to go to a flat. It was like the perfect opportunity, but Saying goodbye to the rooms, but also then the opportunity for us to stay over.

[00:09:30] But we kind of realized that over the years we would stay at my sister anyway, because the kids, you know, she would have the toys and my kids have the space to all play together. So in the end, it worked out really well. But I think it's really something that can starts to cross your mind once the kids leave, leave your home.

[00:09:48] And like, what, what's the next planning? What's the next step? 

[00:09:51] Lesley: Yeah, I definitely think, and I think you're, you know, you're younger than me and you're not at that stage yet, so it's probably not really going into your head, but I think it starts to, as your peers start to, you know, if you've got friends, they've got kids that are older than yours, and that's all happening, retirement comes, and you know, people start to shift into a different stage of their life and want different things, and so, and whereas our kids have, always completely dominated our lives up until that stage, then we need to move ourselves into a slightly different place.

[00:10:19] I think it's quite interesting, but I think there's two things that we really wanted to talk about today that are important from a decluttering and oorganising perspective. One is how long do you keep their stuff in the house for? How long is too long? And also, what do you do with their rooms? And, and Things like that.

[00:10:38] So, should you spread out into their rooms, your stuff? So that's what we're going to talk about a little bit after the break, isn't it?

[00:10:45] 

[00:10:45] Okay, so welcome back everybody. So let's talk about how long should one keep one's lovely child's stuff at your house. Now I say that because I should have, with Luke having been gone for two and a half years, I think he's been gone.

[00:11:05] Is his stuff gone to his flat yet? No, it is still firmly in my house at this moment in time. And I keep saying to him, It's okay. I don't mind keeping your stuff, but I don't want to keep any stuff that you're never going to use again. So declutter stuff. I'm happy to keep a few bits because I realize that you're in a small flat and you've not got loads of space.

[00:11:28] And I'm happy to keep hold of that. I've got a little space for that, but I'm not keeping a random... Assortment of stuff that you have not spent the time to go through. I'm getting a little bit. Can you see me getting kind of irate about it? 

[00:11:42] Ingrid: Honestly, I hear the frustration in your voice, Lesley, like, honestly, 

[00:11:49] Lesley: this is stuff that I do as part of my work.

[00:11:51] And I. I can't get my own children to come on board and do what they, I'm like, Luke, do you want to do a little bit of decluttering and he comes and he'll spend like 10 minutes and he'll throw a load of stuff in a bag and leave a bin bag, I've done it, I'm like you haven't done it, there's like loads of stuff, if you wanted this stuff it would be with you in your flat, do you know what I mean, but anyway, so how long should you keep it for, what do you think Ingrid, so you'll probably say the textbook answer won't you, 

[00:12:13] Ingrid: well no I think it's actually really tricky, so I think when, when you go, when kids go off to uni they're kind of, Kind of keep their room.

[00:12:22] So they keep their stuff. I think this is more the question when they really kind of get their own house. But the problem is a lot of them go to a smaller apartment because they can't afford a house. You know, when you're like 24, you're lucky to even get a house. So. It makes sense that they can't take everything they've ever owned in their whole life.

[00:12:41] So I can imagine that stuff leaves behind. I think the problem indeed with you is that he's not gone through it. It's kind of all kind of randomly backed up. And I kind of see this kind of heap of stuff. And I think what you would like to happen is that it's thinned out, that it's properly labeled with, you know, with, with his name, it's just Luke stuff.

[00:13:01] And at some point you can go. Here's your four boxes, but I think now there's some sort of heap of stuff somewhere. You've got no idea what's going on. He's like not playing ball and going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is so dumb thing that I want to do. And you're like. Come on! You need to get the stuff out of here!

[00:13:18] Am I right? 

[00:13:19] Lesley: Yeah, you know, it's probably less random than you're making out, to be fair. So he has gone through it and it is in drawers and it is in boxes. But what happened then was that he brought a load of stuff back thinking that Leah and Nathan would eBay it all for him. So he went through his own stuff in his own flat and that's the random pile of stuff that's in my basement.

[00:13:39] So yeah, very frustrating. Uh, very frustrated. And I wish that I had the answer and I wish that I got it nailed at my house, but I absolutely have not. So I don't know what the answer is, but I think you need to keep on trying. I think that Luke 100 percent knows. that that stuff shouldn't be here and will not be here for an eternity.

[00:13:58] And as soon as the opportunity is there for it to go to his house, it will be going. And so I think that's the important thing. It's about, you know, the thing that we talk about all the time where you need to make sure your kids know that it's not, this is not a storage facility for you. You need to decide what stuff is important to you and what.

[00:14:14] And what's just going to work for you going forward. I'm not just going to keep that random stuff at my house. You know, and he does like random stuff. This is a problem. Luke is very much his father's son. He keeps stuff in the same way that Steve keeps stuff and thinks it's all going to be amazing. And it's just like, oh, I've got another one.

[00:14:32] But anyway. We wanted to talk about that. And we also wanted to talk about what you do with that room. So I've already said that Luke's room kind of quite prematurely, in my opinion, to be fair, um, became so maybe I think. So there's a psychology in there for him, which was like, well, I'm not doing it because you.

[00:14:53] Took my room away from me sort of thing. Yeah. You know, I don't think he's like deeply scarred. I think he's absolutely fine, but I think he was a little bit disgruntled and so I think he's kind of, you know, playing Well. I'm going to make you wait because you just took that away from me, me. It's quite interesting, really.

[00:15:07] But anyway, so what do you do with their room? I think the interesting thing is in what we see a lot of times with clients, Ingrid, is that what we see is that there's a spread. And so people are like, oh, I'm bursting at the scenes in my wardrobe. I've got this whole nother room now. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to.

[00:15:22] Spread all my clothes out and I'm going to put them into another room. And that, in our opinion, is a kind of a dangerous place to 

[00:15:28] Ingrid: go. Isn't it Ingrid? Yeah. Yeah. And I think we, we, we, before the break, we talked about, can the room have a purpose? Can it become a craft room? Can it become a hobby room? Can it become a reading room?

[00:15:40] Can you repurpose the function of that room? And I think that is, I think something that is brilliant to do because then. You can really maybe do that hobby you've been meaning to get around to or, or do something or, or maybe create a spare bedroom that is a proper room so you can have your friend over to stay.

[00:16:00] But what's the danger is exactly what you're describing now is like, Ooh, let's spread it all out. We have cupboards that are empty. Let's buy more stuff and fill these cupboards with this space. Or the room becomes another dumping ground for people to dump stuff in and becomes another room of. You've run out of other rooms of dooms in your house, and I think that's what we don't want.

[00:16:24] And that's why I think it is so important to talk about that as well in this podcast. 

[00:16:29] Lesley: I think it's really important in general that every room has a very specific purpose. We talk a lot about zones and things, and you know, you know, and I've spoke about this before, I've got, I've got a lovely large house here, I've got five bedrooms, I've got extra rooms, I've got TV rooms and different things.

[00:16:43] And so I'm very, very lucky. But the thing is about those rooms is that they don't have anything in them, other than What they're for so my lounge doesn't have loads and loads of stuff at my office has got stuff in of course it does I've got a spare bedroom. There's nothing in that spare bedroom apart from furniture and a bed You know, there's there's nothing in there.

[00:17:03] There's no other stuff from anywhere else in the house. And I think that's so important that rooms retain their purpose, because as soon as you start to spread out, that's when you've got problems. Now, some people have got to compromise a lot and have got very small homes. And of course, they have to spread out a little bit.

[00:17:19] We have to use those spaces. But if you've had rooms that have been utilized for something else and you don't need it, don't just spread out because you can. I think if you do, it has to be a very conscious, intentional choice. This is an angry. 

[00:17:31] Ingrid: Yeah, and I think that's what we see isn't it, Lesley? We see suddenly that people have eight wardrobes full of clothes.

[00:17:37] And it's like, oh yeah, and then because they then think we've got the space, so I don't need to declutter anymore, so they keep clinging on to lots and lots and lots of stuff. But that means that they then lose an overview of what they have. And actually, instead of going, Oh, I already have that, I didn't even know I had it, so let me buy another one.

[00:17:58] And that's when we suddenly see people with 20 or 30 coats or lots and lots of dresses that never get worn or a summer section that's being untouched because it didn't even, it went from the main bedroom to the spare bedroom to the new bedroom that came, became available and all the wardrobes there and the things just spread out.

[00:18:16] And the more there was, the more it is to keep on track of things. 

[00:18:21] Lesley: I know exactly so I think that would be my my advice would be. Yes, you can utilize the room for other things and that's a really nice thing to be able to do because we don't want these kind of lonely rooms in our houses that have no purpose do we want each each room to be utilized for something and I think, I think you know going back to what we were talking about before with downsizing I think it's when you've got.

[00:18:42] So many rooms in your house that just never ever get used. That's when the time is to downsize and to think about those things as well. So for me, the stuff is very important. I think there is probably. There's going to be a point at which it becomes ridiculous that your 38 year old son who's got a bed, a house with five bedrooms himself and a load of kids and still got stuff at your house.

[00:19:04] That's like, that's too long, and they need to get their stuff and decide what they're going to do with it. But I think there's also a point at which you need to say, you know what, they're not coming back. I have this room in my house. I can repurpose it. I want to do that fits in with my life right now.

[00:19:19] So I think, I think it's a tough debate and everyone is individual because we've all got our own things going on. It's going to depend how many children you've got. It's going to depend when grandkids come along. There are so many variables that sit in here, but in general, be intentional with the space that you've got.

[00:19:34] Be intentional with the stuff that you've got and keep on chipping away at it. Don't let the... Stuff just fester and stay there for years, whether it's your sons, daughters, or whether it is indeed yours that you're spreading out into a different room. Yeah. 

[00:19:47] Ingrid: So thank you so much listeners for being here today.

[00:19:50] We appreciate you and we look forward to seeing you next 

[00:19:53] Lesley: week.

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Empty nester with your kids' clutter still around? Read our blog

So the time has come and your kids are leaving home - being an empty nester is a bittersweet feeling. The problem is that as your kids grow up, they’ll amass what seems a lifetime of junk in just a few years. So when they leave the family home it can be doubly emotional: you feel like you’ve lost your child, but kept all their clutter. So, do I follow my head or my heart?

Time it right

You may be chomping at the bit to get into their room and start throwing things out. But just remember that these things defined your child’s life. They may not be ready to come back from university for their first visit to see all their precious belongings gone (and you may not be ready to see a room stripped of your child’s personality). Take things one step at a time and include them in deciding what’s special or useful – and what’s not.

Get started

Putting in a four to five hour shift will give you the momentum to continue and finish the job. Use different coloured bin bags for charity donations, things to sell and stuff for the tip – and boxes, marker pens and labels to categorise what you want to keep.

Ask yourself do they use it? Do they need it? Do they love it? If your child is becoming resistant, delve deeper: would they take it to their own home? Be prepared for your child to object, but they may surprise you with their ruthlessness. You might be a clutter free empty nester sooner than you think.

Manage emotions

Decluttering your house when you're an empty nester evokes a range of emotions. You and your child may feel guilty about things you’ve never used or about throwing away gifts, sentimental about special memories or wasteful for discarding things that may still be useful.

Try to only keep what is truly beneficial for the future. For sentimental items, it’s all about editing the highlights of our lives. Keep only those items that give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside. Display or store special collections carefully if they have monetary value. And with clothing – if it’s not already in their new homes, it’s time to say goodbye.

Stay focused

Focus on what you want the room to look like. Be practical and think about how often your child is going to stay. Only an occasional guest? Store the remainder of their stuff in the loft, and you may be able to repurpose the room for the home office, craft room or gym you’ve always dreamed of. If they will be regular visitors, you may need to think about new storage solutions that will allow the room to be multipurpose.

Don't dump

Don’t ignore the clutter: it has a nasty habit of expanding. It’s all too easy to overlook clutter in a room that’s not used every day. If you start to gradually put your own clutter into your child’s room, before you know it you have another dumping ground. Your empty nest will be full of all the wrong things!

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