A photograph of a woman in pink trousers, a blue top and a white scarf standing in a garden setting - guest sandra czachur
Episode 131 – My decluttering journey with Sandra Czachur

In this episode, Lesley is speaking to her longstanding friend who she has known for over 20 years. They met when Lesley's oldest child was 2 and Sandra’s youngest child was 2. Sandra was born and bred in Sale, Cheshire which is where Lesley lives. She raised her 5 children here in a beautiful 6 bedroom Victorian property and once her children started to flee the nest she followed her dreams and relocated to Llandudno in Wales near the seaside. Sandra has had a very interesting life full stop but Lesley is happy to say that when any help was needed with a build up of clutter, Sandra always asked for her help. To say there has been a colossal change is an understatement as Sandra is now proud to be an Instagram Interiors influencer.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Intro  0:07  
Welcome to today's episode of The Declutter Hub Podcast, your channel for super easy, no nonsense advice on how to declutter and organise your home. Please welcome your hosts professional organisers, Ingrid Johnson and Lesley Spellman.

Lesley  0:32  
Hello, and welcome listeners to Episode 131 of the declutter hub Podcast. I'm Lesley. In today's episode, I am so happy let me tell you, I am talking to one of my very best friends, Sandra's archer who I've known for over 20 years that makes us sound so old Sandra. We met when my oldest child was two and Sandra's youngest child was was two because they were both at playgroup together and they're now 25, aren't they? So basically, that's how long ago it was. And they were both at playgroup and we met which was fab. So Sandra raised her five Yes, she's got five children here in sale in a beautiful six bedroom Victorian property. But once her children started to flee the nest, she followed her dreams and relocated to Wales to a place called Llandudno, which is right on the seaside. Sandra has had it's fair to say a very, very interesting life full stop, but I'm happy to say that when any help was needed with a buildup of clutter, Sandra always asked for my help. To say there has been a colossal change over the years is an understatement. Sandra is now proud to be an Instagram interiors influencer. And we're going to talk more about that later. Are we Sandra? So welcome to the show.

Sandra  1:43  
Thank you, Lesley for that great introduction. And it's lovely to be here and yes, who knows what will come out

Lesley  1:50  
Who knew that you would go from that first day that we met at hobbyhorse playgroup. And now you would be not even in the same country as me, although it's not very far away to be fair. And following your dreams and at the seaside living your best life? I think that's fair to say that that's what you're doing at the moment and being an Instagram influencer no less.

Sandra  2:13  
Well, I don't know how that came about. But that's really interesting, isn't it? I never imagined I'd be sat here in a house right by the sea five minutes away. So it's great.

Lesley  2:24  
And I'm really lucky, actually Sandra, because I can see, I mean, not our listeners won't be able to see this, but I can see your brand new office. And so you've done a refurb on your office of last few weeks, haven't you, and you've got the same colour in your office as I've got in my kitchen. So great minds think alike. It looks absolutely beautiful. And if you want to see it, I'm sure you can see it well documented, because Sandra will have put it all over Instagram. So you can see that. So let's start at the beginning. A lot of people have like five children. And that's a massive undertaking on its own. So tell us a little bit about your kids and what it's like to raise them.

Sandra  2:56  
Well, it was amazing, obviously, and very demanding. In my case, I had five children within seven years. And I also had a stillborn baby. So I actually had six children in seven years.

Lesley  3:08  
I mean, that's, that's quite an undertaking. So they were all tiny, at the same time. So how did you manage that then in terms of organising them to get them off to school and so on? And did you have help? So presumably, well, I actually know, you were at home on your own and your husband was away working? And you were raising these little tasks under seven on your own? Weren't you?

Sandra  3:32  
Absolutely, yeah. And I mean, I think when you rent it, you don't realise on a look back. Now I can't believe I did it all. But when you're in it, you do is and there does have to be some organisation, things like have a colour code scheme for the children, each child has their own colour. So that made things very easy, because whatever it was, whether it was toothbrushes, flannels, cups, plates, whatever could be colour coded, was coded so that if somebody even down to having a drink or something, you know, you knew that who somebody is, was a yellow cup or a blue cup. So I do remember those days, and that really helped and things like the school uniform. I mean, if we ended up in the morning, not been able to find a shoe, that was a nightmare. So that was definitely a strict rule of having school shoes and PE kit and everything already then that before even the breakfast table was laid ready? Because like you say, Kevin worked away. So it was all down to me.

Lesley  4:35  
You know, you talk about that. And I remember, you know, he's going back quite some time now, isn't it? But I remember you'd be in this super organised person. You always had so many things under control and that and that's one of the things because I think, you know, I think I well, I just had one child at the time that I first met you. I mean, obviously I've more as time went on, but remember you had everything so methodical and well, just so well organised, and that colour coding doesn't surprise me. I didn't know about it, but it doesn't surprise me. It's absolutely fantastic. And so your kids are all grown now. They're all How old is Josh? So he's the oldest, isn't it? How old? Is he now? 31. Okay. So your oldest is 31 now and your youngest, Phoebe is 25 has its share, and you've got ones in between. And they're all scattered around. Well around the globe, really. But they've got their are back in Britain now. But they've been. Yeah, they've definitely done a bit of travelling, they've spread their wings, your children, that's for sure. And so, as I say, I always thought of you as quite an organised person. But at one point, I can't remember when this was it was quite early on in my career as a professional organiser. And you must have had a chat to me one day and just said, I just find paperwork, an absolute nightmare. And I could do it. And I was like, Well, let me come and help you. And so I came in and helped you organise your paperwork, didn't I?

Sandra  5:56  
Oh, yeah, gosh, that was great. And it you know, it was funny, because it's something that you can be embarrassed about currently. And I was embarrassed about my paperwork and the buildup of it. So it was a bit reticent, really, but obviously, I'm a friend, I thought, well, yeah, let's go for it. And I'll tell you, it was the best best thing ever. I mean, I suppose my career when I was a PA, so things like, you know, offices and filing and everything was what I did. But I would say filing is definitely I've got a stumbling block there. But I can still remember to this day when you did our office, and I don't know, it was great to have somebody else there to just clear it all and put it into some sort of order instead of, you know, my piles of paper that were waiting to be filed away.

Lesley  6:50  
I think the interesting thing about it, Sandra is that, as I said, Generally, you know, there was nothing disorganised or I wouldn't have said that your home was full of clutter. But you just had this sort of procrastination streak with anything to do with paperwork. So you did almost want to bury your head in the sand a little bit over it. So it was failing. It was you know, carrying on action and things, you know, nothing was really bad. But it was just there was there was a lot of it and it needed to be organised. And so we talked about system threw together, we created something that was going to work for you and you've kind of never looked back really now you've taken that you've added that bit of organisation to your life as well. So you're very organised now with your paperwork, aren't you?

Sandra  7:31  
Oh, definitely. And like you were saying about the offence. We've just done the office. And I've used the same system. I've brought it into this office. I even got my labelling machine out which I remember you introducing me to it

Lesley  7:44  
or low level labour lover labour list?

Sandra  7:48  
I'm late. I mean, there's something very satisfying about putting a label on something isn't that once you've labelled you never go back? Absolutely.

Lesley  7:58  
So we sorted your paperwork out. And we you know, we kept in touch, we did an odd session here and there to keep on top of things, and we sort of chatted things through. And then all of a sudden, you so to say that your house was a beautiful is an understatement. You had this beautiful, detached six bedroom property and sale, which gave you and the kids and your husband and your dogs and your cats, plenty of space to live, eat and breathe and all of a sudden, quite dramatically, then from our perspective, as a group of friends, you decided that you wanted to downsize? Didn't you to sort of gain back some money, I guess, wasn't it pay, pay down some of the mortgage and all those kinds of things. And so you made what we considered as friends then at that time to be quite a radical decision. Now I know that there was a lot going on in your life, and you were going through a lot of thinking and self awareness at the time. So do you want to talk a little bit about that? And then what led you to this conclusion that you wanted to downsize?

Sandra  8:57  
So the I mean, the house itself actually came about in a very strange way from a I don't know, I suppose a reading spiritual reading which was interesting and that it was all foretold. But anyway, we lived in the house on I believe the house chose us because it was definitely meant to be and we had many happy years whilst living at the house as well. I met Linda Brotherton who introduced me to I VEDA which I would say has totally changed my life. So what is Ayurveda? Sandra? So I Aveda was an ancient but well it goes back 5000 years and it's a whole way of living well it's a science of life itself. And so in Ayurveda, you want to three doshas, and you're the idea is to get balanced in your life really. So we're all all of us have our own dosha our own body type, but we can be out of balance so we know that it's all about balance. Australian so looking at my life and thinking, when we were in this big house and children had all left home, you know, maybe we didn't need to be in that big house really? So. But to be fair, it wasn't it didn't. It wasn't going to happen. When it did. We had I think Phoebe must have still been at home. But somebody approached us to buy the house, it happened very quickly, because suddenly somebody was there willing to buy the house because it wasn't, you know, an unusual? No, I don't think we're going to get lots of people. So that it happened very quickly. And in hindsight, we probably rushed into the house that we went to. But we did. And, yeah.

Lesley  10:43  
So you downsize. I mean, you still had a sizable property that you moved into, it was still a decent sized thing. It was four bedroom house, wasn't it? So but dimensionally it was much smaller. And we did a lot of work on that house together. So I loved I love, you know, you couldn't not love your original house. But the house that you moved into was equally lovely, different, different things, but dimensionally it was much smaller. So a lot of the things that you'd had in your big house, were kind of like oversize, you're very tall, your husband's tall, you kind of tall family. And there are big things around. And so it became very clear that a lot of the things that you had a lot of the items, a lot of the stuff that you had, whether that be furniture, paintings, or ornaments, their volumes of clothes, the types of things that you have in your kitchen, we're probably not going to naturally move into this smaller property. So we had to think about that didn't wait. And so do you want to talk about that transition? And how that all worked?

Sandra  11:42  
Well, yes, because like I say, whenever I bought anything to the house, it has to be big. Otherwise, it got lost in the sort of randomness of the rooms. And so we've had, over the years of living now accumulated a lot of stuff. But that's why you came up with a brilliant idea of doing really a garage sale, even though it wasn't in a garage, it was in our basement. And I might just add that the basement, I run a business from the basement and the basement was three very large rooms and a large hallway. And they actually filled the whole space with stuff that we were getting rid off. So from furniture to filing cabinets, clothes and handbags, gosh, they're really close. I mean, I'm embarrassed about that, really, you know, some were, even with their labels still on books and camping gear and all sorts of things. But we sold it all. And that was down to your organisation really, and getting the guy out there on social media and everything was labelled up. And then it was a great success.

Lesley  12:43  
Do you know it's really interesting, I've just thinking about it as you're talking about it. Because a few weeks ago, we put a podcast out which was all about is a garage sale, or a car boot sales we have here in the UK a good idea. And let's think England and my advice was, you know, it's not for the faint hearted, it needs a lot of organisation. And so you kind of almost take me back, you know, we spent days organising for that, too. for that. It was almost like a basement sale, it was quite nice because it was inside as well in your lovely basement and everything. And you did have a lot of connections on social media. So you had a ready market for that as well, didn't you? So I think that's probably why it works. And it was a roaring success. Do you know to mean, and, of course, people always want to nosy around these lovely big houses as well done this, I'm sure people wanted to come in and see what was. So I think that probably helps as well. But I remember it being a lot of fun. But we were working together on that. But it was, you know, it's fair to say that it was a lot of work. It was a success, because you had beautiful things to sell. You did get good money, because you had that market there because you had the help to do all the labelling and organisation. It definitely works. And it was fantastic, wasn't it? And it was what was grateful. And we had such a lot of fun. Didn't we do?

Sandra  13:51  
I mean, it was fun, right? It was work as well, wasn't it because, you know, getting everything together. But I think he wouldn't have been able to do it. I think I might have ended up wanting to take it home as a stuff with me, you know, because it's, that's a good thing about getting you in is that it makes you see things clearly and that you realise right now, I don't need six of those or four of those or whatever. So that is Yeah, went really well. Yeah. And

Lesley  14:17  
I think it's a lot of it is about spatial awareness as well. And understanding. So for me most the problem was not necessarily the stuff it was the size of the stuff and the dimensions of that stuff and how it would, you know not necessarily translate into into a smaller property. So so we're going back now about how many years ago would go and so when did you make that first downsizing move like seven years ago

Sandra  14:41  
was? Yes, gosh 2015 2015 So

Lesley  14:47  
it's about six years ago that you made that first move, and you were really happy with everything that you did there you're still continuing on with your journey with AI Aveda. Learn more Is it fair to say so

Sandra  14:59  
even though held a few eye VEDA workshops in that house and we had a company selling fabulous I Aveda products so yeah, so it was it was a great three years until

Lesley  15:14  
until

Sandra  15:17  
my mom was having a 90th birthday hearing and I'll say candid no rather than London no as I used to say before I moved here but

Lesley  15:27  
you need to explain that you need to explain that Sandra because we've got people all over the world who weren't understand the difference between London now and Clint did now. Well that's why I say differently.

Sandra  15:38  
Well because a double L in in Wales or in Welsh is because I don't see I don't know how to explain it really. But I do know that it's funded know, rather than London No. I don't know it just seems funny that that's how I say it but before I moved here it was I was landlord No.

Lesley  15:58  
Yeah, so the English people say landlord No, because that's what we know it as but if you go to Wales, you have to do what the Welsh people do. What do you do and say authentically, so you're you're a bonafide a Welsh person. Now Sandra,

Sandra  16:10  
tried to learn that? Well, she's got to say it's really hard. Kevin's best wrestler means God. But yeah, anyway. Take me back. Yeah. So I went back to my mom's 90th birthday party. Now, one of my sisters already lives here and has a guest house. But mom loves cleanseth. No. So we, she wants to have her 90th birthday here. So we had a little party in St. George's hotel, and we had a lovely time celebrating her birthday. And the next day, because all the family were here. And the next day, we went to the to the beach. And one of my other sisters jokingly said, she'll move here. And anyway, might likely do or I don't know if people do but like I did, and we went home. And I've just sat on the sofa, my iPad and started looking at Rightmove. And I actually found this house home Dale, and I just fell in love with it. And I just realised that I was really missing the big Victorian houses. And I just looked at it. And I just showed Kevin and I said oh, look at this house. And the other thing is the bonuses that houses here are like a third of the price of Manchester houses. So it was a much bigger property. But I showed Kevin get off. Just look at this. And I nearly fell off my chair when he said, Well, should we go and view it? So that's what we did. And that was in April 2018. And apart from a little glitch in the middle where the vendor took it off the market and I was devastated. We actually got the keys on the seventh of September 2018.

Lesley  17:52  
Wow. Wow. So it's so interesting. So you still had this? You know, we've already talked about your other house and the dimensions of it. And so you still had that yearning for the for the bigger sizes and so quite interested in how it's all fitted together. Really Sandra, isn't it? Because, you know, there were various reasons why you decided to downsize, which were probably for the right reasons, but it wasn't perhaps the right house. That would that book?

Sandra  18:15  
Absolutely, absolutely. And I think in hindsight, we should have rented somewhere because it was all happening very quickly. The people that wanted to buy that house had sold their house. So it was all happening quickly. And it wasn't their fault. Absolutely. We didn't have to. But I think perhaps we should have rented somewhere and thought about it. But then you know, this is what life does, isn't it and I don't think we wouldn't have moved here because we would have waited and found somewhere there and they'd still be there. Whereas now I love my life here living by the sea and everything else on my doorstep. So

Lesley  18:52  
definitely Southern, I suppose in terms of in terms of your journey. I think what I found really interesting Sandra, about it is, you know, this, it's almost right sizing, you know that, you know, there's a term out there, there's downsides and there's upsizing. There's right sizing so it's definitely right sizing because the house that you live in, albeit a big house is not as big as your previous house, that's for sure. Am I right in saying yeah, and so I think what you have done it as a person because you know, I've been involved in some of it and I've been watching some of it obviously I've seen you much lessons you've moved over to Wales and because we've been in lockdown so we've not even been able to see you apart from a couple of trips which were good fun to be fair, Sandra, the trips that we had, let's go back to Wales again. Yeah, yeah. No more about that. No more about that. Yeah, we took London no by storm that night, I think didn't we? But anyway, I think it's it's your relationship to stuff I think which has changed I think your journey with Ayurveda has changed your relationship to stuff simplicity balance comes into play. I think your ability to be organised enough to do multiple moves in a very short space of time comes into play. And it's all about priorities, isn't it. And so, Your journey has brought you to this place now, where you have found the home of your dreams, it's fair to say that you kind of had one of those 20 years ago, you thought that you did. And I'm still guessing that you would think that was the right house at the right time for you. But now you've moved into a different stage in your life. But all of these things are not possible without the previous steps, you know, to mean, so you needed to do the downside, you needed to get rid of some of that stuff along the way. You needed to learn how to organise and you can't do those kinds of moves without when you're burying your head in the sand about paperwork. So all this learning that you've had along the years, has brought you now to the right place, where you've now fallen in love with your dream home and your dream life so much that you're so proud of it that you're sharing that with a lot of people on social media.

Sandra  20:59  
Yes. Yes, I mean, it is. It's amazing when you look back and how you know how your journey takes a turn suddenly. And you know, it was a big upheaval to leave Manchester and come here, you know, you just don't know do don't know what's going to happen. You left us what Lesley The only thing I miss. I mean, obviously I love Manchester as my hometown. But I the only thing I miss is my girlfriends really because it because that's the thing. We moved here September. In the march, we'll have my eldest sisters moved here. And then in the following September, my mom moved here. So most of them are family here, although I've got a brother and a sister because I'm on a five as well. So there's three of the out of the five bills actually live here now. And so I really miss a special like saying that, during this pandemic, it's hard because I haven't been able to come over and see your but yes, that's the only thing I missed, really, because I don't know, I never really realised I'd want to live by the sea so much, because it's Manam here. It just I just can't believe that I walk out the door with Barkley and down to the beach, and they're out.

Lesley  22:17  
And you definitely you definitely live in the dream. And as I say, You, you, you're sharing that journey. So your house is a beautiful house that you've got now, but it needs to work. And so you're refurbishing that and you're sharing your refurbishment journey with other people on Instagram, aren't you?

Sandra  22:35  
I am Yes. I mean, that came about just because I wanted to document what was going on really, you know, I've seen other accounts. And it's just nice. I know, everybody loves a before and after that. So I started it off. I just thought it was a bit of fun, really. And it was and you know, I love taking photos of anything, really. And so I think it's a bit of a it was a bit of a hobby because obviously I moved here and I didn't know anybody I mean, my sister was here. But I didn't know anybody. I didn't have any friends. And you know, I'm not saying that, you know, poor me thing. But you know, it was a little distraction, I think Instagram. So I just started posting things. And before I knew it, I had all these followers, which was, which was great. I've actually made friends via Instagram. I've even been on SPA weekends, I have a friend, one of my friends here and lives around the corner, and I met her through Instagram. So I know lots of people sometimes go on about social media, but you know, it has its uses, doesn't it?

Lesley  23:43  
They absolutely do Sandra and it reminds me very much of our own Facebook group community because it feels like a group of friends who have all got one thing in common in our in our world, then it's feeling in some way overwhelmed or interested in decluttering and brings people together to know that they're not alone. And so it's the same with the people in your community is exactly the same. They're They're bound by that common interest and interiors and refurbishment. And it's a fantastic community to be within. And of course, then we're going to have friends. If anybody wants to follow Sandra, she's on Home Sweet Home, Dale will add all the details into the show notes so you can see what we've been talking about. But there's a level of honesty about that. Obviously, there's aspiration within that as well. So you've got lots of beautiful things. You're sharing products that you like that you use wallpaper, murals, carpets, all those kinds of things and giving people ideas and that's what this is all about. So social media has to be a good thing in that way because you're sharing ideas, and there's a commonality in that isn't there?

Sandra  24:45  
Oh, absolutely. And to be fair, I've got lots of ideas from it as well you know, because everybody goes to Instagram and Pinterest and it's have a look and get inspired. So yeah, it's a great tool, I think for that and I've loved it and you know it has been Great that people have approached me and asked me to look at things for them and give me my opinion and everything. So it is a bit crazy really slow me.

Lesley  25:11  
Yeah, it's just quite a journey. It's just a really, really interesting journey. And Sandra in terms of the evolution over the past 20 years. So tell us, what do you think is the biggest thing that's influenced you in a kind of decluttering organising world? In terms of the way? Have you got a top tip for somebody who's changing? Or is? Or should I downsize? Should I move? Should I upsize? What's the right thing to do? Have you got a top tip of what you've learned over the years that you'd like to share with our lovely listeners?

Sandra  25:41  
Well, I suppose my, um, I don't it's not really a tip. But you know, I think going back to the last house in sale, you know, it was very it, we did it very quickly. And I think in hindsight, I would have done it slower. But then, you know, who's to say that was the way it happened, wasn't it? I don't know. I've got no regrets, because it brought us here. But oh, tips. I mean, you're the one with all the tips, upsizing and downsizing. I mean, I would say, do it throughout this, all of them, you've been there and helped with that journey. And that's made it so much easier, whether that be having somebody like you there with you, or watching your your podcasts and getting the information that way, that's really helped me anyway, I know, it would have been so much more stressful, if I was just on my own. And I probably would have thrown everything in boxes and just taken everything and then been living in a load of clutter that stayed with me through each one. Because I've taken that, you know, I do I like your I think you used to say something like, when you look at things, you have to see whether think about whether you actually love them, or whether you need them, which, obviously they're to the or even if you use them. I mean, I have things that are just, you know, in the past, I've just sat there and I just never use them. And because I bought them I think I should keep them. You know, now I can look at things that way. Another thing is that the great tips that I remember you're giving me it was about so when you the cluttering or organising, you think you've got to go out and get these boxes or shelves or things, you know, to put all your stuff on. But actually, if you declutter first, then you realise you don't need those boxes or shelves to put stuff on. Something that My dear husband might need to learn because he likes to buy shelves and fill them up. Because unfortunately, we do have a cellar full of stuff.

Lesley  27:44  
Yeah, we never did quite get around to doing those garages outside. Did we Sandra? Yeah, I tried and failed from memory. I think, you know, we worked quite well with you. But I don't think Kevin was having any of it from memory for us to get into this is camping stores, that wasn't going to happen.

Sandra  28:01  
And we've still got all that camping again. But remember, the last time we went camping, and children's stop having five children who especially move around the world, then we've ended up with some of their stuff. And I don't know, one day, I think when they get the keys to their houses, they get I'm gonna get a van and just drive up and dump all their stuff. I know not all of them have to say, some of our children.

Lesley  28:26  
That's a whole nother podcast, Sandra, trying to get rid of it. I'm still I wish I knew the answer. I'm still desperately trying to get Luke to take his things, but he's not having any of it. So one of the other things that I wanted to talk about is the fact that as well as having your Instagram account and sharing your lovely refurbishment and progress with your followers, you also volunteer at a charity shop, which is something that is very near to our hearts here at the declutter hub. So what I'd like to ask you to do, Sandra, if that's okay, because we've we've kind of finished up our lovely podcast for today is to come back and talk to us more about your work at the charity shop. So you work at the cat's protection. And I'd love to talk some more about it so we can get down to the nitty gritty of someone who works in a charity shop to tell us all about the inside information on what you like, what you don't like, and things like that. So would you be happy to do that? Sandra,

Sandra  29:24  
I'd be very happy. Yes, I can think of some lovely things I can talk about.

Lesley  29:29  
Ah, well, it's been so nice. I think the really nice thing about having a friend on the podcast is it. It just feels so natural. And this is a this is a long it's so nice of a friend we just I just wish it didn't move to Wales really just selfishly, we want you around the corner. But I'm hoping I'm hoping that you know, once this pandemic is over, people are going to make more of an effort to see the people that they've not seen for a while and that things are going to change. So let's hope that's the case and we can do those trips over it's not that far from it. For anybody who's actually over in bigger countries like Australia and New Zealand and Canada and America is probably like, What do you mean? It's only an hour and a half? It's not that far at all. But for us, it's a long way, isn't it? So? Yeah, sand was only about an hour and a half away from us. So I'm sure that visit will come soon. And we can walk along that beach in London. So thank you so much, Sandra for being on the podcast.

Sandra  30:22  
And thank you, Lesley. Thanks for asking me and I've really enjoyed it. Oh, good. So that's

Lesley  30:27  
it for this episode. We hope you've all enjoyed listening and are inspired to take some action do you want to downsize or upsize or right size. We very much appreciate you taking the time to listen to myself and Sandra today. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please share it with your friends. Maybe they'd love Asha too. And we've talked about quite a few things today, and Sandra's Instagram handles and things like that. And I'm going to pop those into the show notes that you can find on our website if you want to see what this Instagram account is all about. If you want more handy tips and advice from Ingrid and I you can find us in lots of places. We have a fabulous supportive Facebook group called the declutter hub community, which is a lovely, lovely group. So please do come and join us. We have Instagram as well and we have Facebook and you can find this as the declutter hub. We'd love to see you there. Take a look at members dot declutter hub.com To find out more about our membership as well with step by step courses. Quick Wins live q&a Is every two weeks and lots of other fun stuff. If you don't want to miss our next podcast, please subscribe to the declutter podcast, and it will pop into your notifications each Friday. Thanks so much for listening, and we will see you next time.

Outro  31:42  
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Declutter Hub podcast. Check out declutterhub.com for more inspiration, and don't forget to tune in next week.
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