A graphic of a house with lots of different items scattered around it
Episode 256 – Change your clutter mindset

Today we’re going right back to basics to talk about why clutter holds us back and keeps us stuck. We’re going to talk about some of the typical emotions that people feel and tell you all about our September 2023 Reset Your Home Challenge.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
00:00
Today we're gone right back to basics to talk about why clutter holds us back and keeps us stuck. We're going to talk about some of the typical emotions that people feel and give you a fantastic solution to tackle your clutter.

00:23
You're listening to the declutter Apple podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organizing your home. Now, here are your hosts, Ingrid Jansen, and Lesley Spellman.

00:46
Hello, and welcome, listeners. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Lesley. If you're new to the declutter hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find is that we try and find a fun factor in the serious business of decluttering. And if you've been here for a while, you know exactly what we mean. So thank you so much for listening. If you'd like to get involved in conversations related to this podcast, it all takes place in our Facebook group. So come and join our lovely, warm, supportive community. To find the Facebook group go to declutter hub.com, forward slash group to find out more, or you can search for the declutter hub community on Facebook. So Ingrid, we're here to get back to basics, which is really nice, actually, because we've done lots of sort of niche things over the years, we've gone in lots of different directions, but it's been a while. But before we go on, right, let's get to the crux of what this decluttering situation is all about. And that's what we're going to do today. Before we get started, we had a lovely review, we have been talking about the gorgeous reviews that you all send in for us. And so we wanted to talk about one today from Susan. Hi, Ingrid. Yes, she sent. You never feel alone with Ingrid and Lesley to hell, but she gave us five stars on Apple podcasts. Well, thank you, Susan. And she says, I have enjoyed your podcast on decluttering for some time, and I love to listen and chuckle along with you both and guests. But the episode that has really helped me was the ADHD episode with Luke, my son is just starting tests for ADHD and listening to look talking about this journey was insightful, reassuring and so helpful. As someone who feels quite confident in decluttering, you still have tips and ideas that helped me further. Thank you for sharing your wisdom, kindness and decluttering expertise.

02:41
Lesley, I know and thank you, Susan, for sharing your kindness split to leave us a review, because that makes us feel super happy. And I'm glad that you enjoyed that podcast. And it'll give you a few hints and tips about the journey that you're about to go on with your own son. And you know, it's interesting actually in with that review, because today we're gonna go back to basics and talk about decluttering. Now it comes as no secret that our kind of methodology around decluttering is very emotionally LED. Okay, so we're all about kind of what is it in our world that is stopping us from making the progress that we want to make. But Susan says, of course, she's not actually got that much of a problem with with clutter. She's fairly organized, she's keeping it together. But maybe sometimes things things go a little bit awry. But there's still things to learn which to absolutely are when I go out to for clients, there's loads of different types of client language. So there are those, of course that are completely overwhelmed with clutter. And typically, those are the people that we also talk about quite a lot in these podcasts because we are quite emotionally lead. And that's where all the kind of real gold dust is, I guess in terms of really breaking through big barriers that have been holding people back. But equally, let's not forget the people who are just like, you know, I am quite organized, but somehow I've got this drawer that I just can't get my head around, or I've got this room that I just keep procrastinating over. So it's not like a real big problem. But it's just a little barrier that's holding someone back so let's not forget about those people because I think if you listen to us a lot of time you know, we're a little bit Doom and gloomy sometimes about all the kind of things that happen and kind of emotions that hold people back. So we just wanted to play a tribute to those people who are listening each and every week and picking up little hints and tips along the way from us that will help you on your decluttering journey. I think that's so spot on Lesley. I mean it just shows you I was with a client the other day and she's beautiful house everything is it way and it looks tidy and neat. But she said I just love having you in every once in a while just to help me a little bit because I have to do all of this alone. You know, my husband works away a lot But kids are still young. And it's so nice to have someone just to kind of go let's do it together. Let's work together. Let's get some stuff done. So yes, this is coming

05:00
Lily, a testimonial after my own heart, and I'm so delighted to hear that we have tips and ideas for people who might not have loads of clutter as Yes, definitely. But having said all that, we are going to delve into the emotional side of things, Oh, Ingrid, to talk about the kinds of things and these will be on different levels, I think there's always a spectrum of all these emotions isn't there. So we're going to talk about a few different emotions that hold you back. Some of them might be quite debilitating. Some of them might be Oh, it's a bit of a problem and then need to sort of sorted out, but it might be a reasonably easy fix to get over those things. So everything has a spectrum, right? So all of these things, even if you're kind of fairly organized, you might still feel these emotions, but perhaps you don't feel it in the same way that somebody else feels it. We've always talked about the fact that it's all about different people's level of tolerance of clutter, right and grid. And so, you know, if my house singlets house, they're fairly orderly, we keep things together, but sometimes it gets too much. And we need to reset and sorted out. So it's not perfect all the time. And sometimes it feels really cluttered to us. When you can sort it out within a few hours. Of course we can, but we still feel it. Does that make sense? Ingrid? Yeah, yeah. I think, of course, people have, who have more clutter than other people might feel far more overwhelmed. But on the other hand, people who who don't have a lot of clutter and have a little bit of clutter, might feel justice overwhelmed with people who have a lot of gloves, I think it really depends on on where you sit, right? It's the same with feeling guilty about something, you know, it doesn't matter how much stuff or no stuff you've got, if you feel guilty about it, and it kind of eats into you, then you still feel guilty about it. Definitely. So now you're talking about guilt, ingratitude, guilt. Let's talk a little bit more about guilt. And let's talk about the different spectrums that might happen. Next. I think that's quite interesting, isn't it? You so often when we're talking about guilt, and we talk about somebody who really is suffering a lot with the clutter in their homes, it's about the way we feel guilty about the way our home looks and functions, right? It's we feel guilty, that it's not performing in the way that perhaps we feel that it ought to, and we get so much thrown at us in in terms of this is the perfection, this is the goal, this is the after this is the ideal, that it's hard to not think about things in that way, isn't it? You know, I mean, so we're gonna take those in and go. But I wish mine look like that, you know, we put stuff in our Facebook group all the time. And you can see people who are still going through these journeys, but people are I wish mine literally looked like that before due to automation. So there's things like that as well. But we feel guilty about the state of our home. Whilst we feel guilty about Ingrid, I think Lesley, another thing that we can feel guilty about is that we come across as we don't have everything together. And that can be very hard to live up to those expectations. And I think maybe when we were raised, we were grown up in a certain way, and everything had to be as it was, and now we've got our own homes, and we can't juggle all those bowls. And we feel like, Oh, I'm just not doing justice to my house and to myself and to my family. But it's just like a like, I'm a mess. I'm a mess all the time. And I'm frustrated about that. And I feel guilty about it. Because I do want to come across that I've got it all together. Exactly. I know it's so hard, isn't it this kind of have it all, sort of scenario that we find ourselves in sometimes, particularly as women, where it's like, you can have a career and you can have your kids and you can have your home and you can do all of these things, you need to do all of the things. And sometimes as you say, it just becomes really overwhelming. And of course there are those people who are naturally good at doing that kind of thing and can hold it all together, seemingly, although I'm sure underneath the surface, if you really look, then there are elements of their lives that they're not holding together, there'll be bits of your life that you're doing better than they are and vice versa. But comparison is a tough thing really, isn't it? We need to kind of go on our own journey. But it's hard to not compare, basically. Yeah, I think we also feel a lot of guilt about the money that we spend in grid, I think that we feel guilty about out, you know, what things cost, I think we feel guilty about throwing things away that have perceived value. I think we feel guilty about throwing something away that other people have spent a lot of money on money is a huge thing when it comes to clutter. And these things really keep us stuck. And I think what we feel is that the money if that money is sitting there and it's clutter, it was wasted at the time that you spent it, you're never gonna get that money back. So better off to let that go to somebody else who can utilize and get that back into the you know, into the cycle of stuff that's gonna be helpful for someone else. I agree. And I think what we've seen as well as the especially in the last couple of years, that there's lots of guilt about the environment as well. We feel that if we throw something away, that it's going to end up in landfill and then we feel guilty about that. So we hold on to it, but it's

10:00
Just a different location. So I think environmentally more, being more conscious about everything and trying to do your best with recycling and all of that can really hold us back, trying to move forward in our homes. I think we also Ingrid definitely feel guilty about the impacts that our clutter or the family quarters might not just always yours, but you feel that burden of responsibility has on relationships. And so it might be you know, if you have a partner, it might be that you're constantly having arguments about things. So there might be that side of it. If you've got children, you might feel guilty about the fact that you're embarrassed to have people over. They can't have sleepovers, they can't have playdates, all of those kinds of things. And so I think that's a real tricky one, isn't it? We do feel it's hard. This is hard stuff, isn't it? And it's how to fix it and how to get over that guilt. And we do need to get over that guilt to be able to be positive enough to move forward to don't wait. Yeah, definitely. But the problem is, a lot of times this kills makes us feel really overwhelmed. Thus, needlessly, the overwhelm kind of stops us in our tracks, we don't know where to start. We know we want to do something, but we're like, Oh, I'm just like, I don't even know there's so much to do everywhere. And if I do something here, then by the time I get back to it, it's all the way back again, as it was or we think that it has, and that can really give that feeling of Wow, how do people do this? How do you figure out what is the task at hand? How do you make all these decisions? Because clutter is hundreds of decisions that need to be made? Am I keeping it? Is it going? Where she's going, he should go and go into recycling on a rampage? Oh, am I gonna give it away? Or oh, and your head's already buzzing from it all? I think you're right. It is overwhelming. That would be the word right. So when people approach us, email us comment on things that we put out there that we see face to face overwhelmed, is probably the number one emotion that people are feeling. And that's because it is overwhelming. Lots of us have not been taught how to do this. Yeah, lots of us have kind of, you know, plodding along through life, and then amassing things. At the end of the day, we don't have much stuff typically, as a child, we kind of move out, we go away, maybe for a couple of years, come back settle perm, you know, if we were talking about standard scenario, which is not always the case. And then all of a sudden, we get into our 30s and 40s. And things where did all this stuff come from? And it's completely overwhelming. And we don't have the knowledge to be able to fix that. I think that's why it becomes so overwhelming because you're not even sure where to start or whether you are capable of making those decisions to make a change. Yeah, yeah. And I think as well, you know, some people can just cope with a little bit more stuff being out, you know, when it's visually quite busy. But some people are like, actually, I love having everything clean, and the clean counters and the clean floors. And then I'm functioning much better because there's not so much visual clutter in the way all the time. So Ingrid, we've talked about overwhelm, we have to talk about procrastination, right? Procrastination goes hand in hand with overwhelm. Of course it does. Why do we procrastinate so much about our clutter?

13:30
Lesley, that's like the $1 million question. I think, you know, it's like, I think, I think maybe because we think we need to have all the answers right from the start. And we need to know exactly where we're going. What we're doing. I think we think of our culture as a straight path from a quarter. I've got no clutter, and it's a straight line. Well, we know that it's not it's a long and winding road, which takes you till you go on turn shouldn't take a road, you go to a dead end, you have to come back, you know, it's I don't know, it's hard. Even English overwhelmed answering the question.

14:11
Okay, it's quite depressing, really the way that you're supposed to be positive and saying, Hello, I don't know, I don't even know you would even do this. I only do that it's just so odd all the time. But yeah, I think you procrastinate because you're so overwhelmed with things but I think he was right and raises very valid points in that which is, the best thing that we can sort of suggest to you is that it is this long and winding road that is going to go off and Veer in certain directions at certain times, whether that be timescale. When you have the appetite, appetite to do these things, when you feel the most energetic, what you're going to do, how you're going to do it, whether you're able to come back to it a second time. That's a big thing. We talk we talk a lot about phases in the declutter hobby. Now this is your first phase and then you're gonna come back when you built it, that decluttering muscle. All of those are linked to procrastination. But ultimately, what you need to do is you need to

15:00
Do something and you need to have a goal that sits behind that, to work out what that something looks like. And I think that that's a mistake that we see a lot of people making is, as I say, to go from, I want to declutter my so unserved thing this weekend, and by the end of this weekend, and it's needed to perfect, and that definitely stops people from achieving what they want, and makes people think, Well, that was difficult not doing that again, and then leave it for another six months. So procrastination is a biggie, you know, I mean, obviously, we've got loads of podcasts already about procrastination. So do dig those out and have a listen. And we go into much more detail about the specifics of procrastination. Yes,

15:42
let's do another emotion. While we're at it, Lesley, I'm gonna start crying.

15:48
borrowers are planning to but because what we see a lot is that people are worried, they're worried. But what if I throw it away, and I might need it one day, or, but I've got it now. And when I bought it, I was really happy with it. And if I'm gonna get declutter it, then I'm worried about it, that we can't buy it again. Because when I bought this, I had money to spend. And now things are tough and tight. And I've tried another job, and I'd maybe don't make as much money as I used to. And all these thoughts bust through our heads where he is a big one. I think I think you're right there. And I think one of the things, you know, the kind of what if scenario often stems from different situations that we found ourselves in, in the past. And so I think that we definitely see a lot, not necessarily poverty, or poverty would come into that, you know, times in people's lives where they've not had the same as people have had, when they've been able to buy the stuff that then eventually has become clutter. And I think that people worry about that. That's a tough one. If you've had to go without any period of your life, when you don't have to go without, you're going to probably capitalize on that a little bit. And that takes a little bit of a while to reset, doesn't it? Yeah. And so, you know, the what if scenario is a big one, and there's many what ifs? What if I need it? What if I need to do this little thing. But you know, but again, a biggie that we wanted to talk about was really this? What if I can't afford to replace the things that I actually know, are clutter? And don't have those things? Yeah, yeah.

17:22
I don't know. I think also, Lesley, what we worry about, as well as that we upset others, you know, because sometimes we have a lot of clutter we see in people's houses, or gifts from other people. But it's like, no, I can't get rid of that. Because so and so gave it to me, and, and I'm like, but you don't use it, you don't love it, you don't need it, it's lingering in your coverage, taking up valuable space. Yeah, but I don't want to upset the person that gave it to me. And I think you know, of course, it's good to take other people's emotions into consideration. But I think the basis should be this that you feel happy in your own home, right in your own place is your own sanctuary. And I think that goes to the top of the list. And of course, we don't want to upset our people. But you have to put yourself first and I think we see a lot of people who have clutter, always put everybody else first apart from themselves. Definitely one I just wanted to say, Yeah, I was just about to say that myself, actually, we see with the people that are in our world, we definitely see kindness being a big thing. People are very kind with that sort of people, volunteering, the environment, being kind to the environment, all of those things come into place. But what what we're seeing here in grid is that the few emotions, and we did say going back to basics, so we're literally doing a whistle stop through each emotion. And trust us, it's way more complex than the things that we've said in the last sort of 50 minutes. But what we see is that all interlinked. And so, you know, England was talking about, we worry about things that we worry about things because we feel guilty, we procrastinate over things, because it feels overwhelming. And so all of these things are completely linked. And sometimes it's hard. You need to get down to the basics of what it is that you're feeling. And once you've got that self awareness about what is it about this item? What is it about me that is stopping me from making what I probably know, rationally is the right decision for this item to let it go. But what is it that stop him from making that rational decision? And that's what this is all about. So it's never about the stuff. It's all about what sits behind the stuff and the emotions that we feel and how we feel connected to up to our things.

19:32
The final emotion that we wanted to talk about in our little whistlestop tour of emotional side of clutter was was talk about sentimentality and England today sentimental sells, right. So we we feel you and we don't think that something sentimentality should go out of the window when it comes to declutter and far from it. But we do feel that it's all about, you know, favoring the quality over the quantity, don't me. I know, you know, sprinkle a little bit of sentimentality. Oh,

20:00
over everything less. Yeah, I mean, let's be honest, we everything can be sentimental, you know, everything that we've ever done that the first page that we drew as a child to the letter said that family members that you love have sent you photographs, your kids, little, for sure everything can be made sentimental. But the thing is, when there's too much sentimentality and stuff around, then you can't see the wood for the trees anymore. There's too much of it, and then you can't enjoy any of it. You really have to dig down and go, but what are my favorites, and that can be quite a tricky one to do. But it will help you and you will know when you get that warm, fuzzy feeling inside and go, Oh, I'm so happy I found this. That's the thing you go, okay, that's going to be in my list of favorite things that I love, and all the other stuff around it, you know, there can be such a thing as a good thing of too much of a good thing. Definitely. Too much for God's saying, yes, you're right, we see lots of too much for good thing, right? Yes, no.

21:08
Okay. So we really, we've gone through the basics, we've talked about the kinds of things that typically, you know, these are like the top level emotions that we see. And then we talk a lot about sub emotions. So within each of these things, we go a little bit deeper, because there are kind of basic emotions. And then there are things that are only with one kind of person, you know, it's about your life, and how that links together. And so it's all well and good Ingrid talking about these emotions and going, you need to be self aware. How do we do that? Well, how do we do that? Lesley? Well, I think what we can do is help you with this. How do you figure out these emotions? And what can you do? And that's where we come in, because we are doing a reset your home challenge. We're going to start next week, we're going to do our five day challenge. And we're going to talk in depth about the emotions that hold us back, and how you can work with that to help you forward on your decluttering journey. I think you know, I already talked about the fact that it's all about self awareness. And I think there's a couple of things within the reset your home challenge that really helped you with that self awareness. We do delve into those emotions that we've spoken about today, in a really quick fire way. We talk about them in a lot more detail to see whether or not you feel that any of those emotions resonate with you. Some of them may not but many of them typically do. And what happens within our reset your home challenge is it's the first step on your journey of self awareness of the emotional side of clutter and how that's holding you back. And honestly, we want to reset your home challenge a few times before. And it's very, very powerful, isn't it in terms of getting people over the line, people come into the challenge thinking, I want to get rid of my clutter. And then after a day in the challenge, or kind of almost like Oh, right. Okay, now I get that this might be different to the way that I've thought about it in the past, because I think many people who come into our world very much think about it as a all about the stuff. And we're like caliber, almost put the stuff to one side for a moment. Ignore what it is actually. And let's just think about you. And what how you function, how you operate, how you how your emotions take over what we talked about a minute ago, which was kind of rational decision making. So I think self awareness is key. And that's what we try and bring in the right while we do bring because we've done it many times before. And we see the success stories as a result of that. So I think that's one part of it. And the other part of it is the practical side of the things that we do within the reset your home challenge which which kind of almost confronts you, but not in a really negative way on a small level with volumes domani was how do we do dang good. So yes, let's see, one of the things we do in the challenge every day is accounting confess. And what that means is that we say, okay, you've got a group of items. And we would love for you to go and grab all these items together and tell us how many have you've got up this certain thing.

24:16
Because seeing the numbers can really open up your eyes to how many items you actually have. And we always say, think about before How many think you have then gather them all together, and then count them up and see how many you actually have. And that's where it gets really interesting, doesn't it Lesley? Because are the people who join our challenge go oh, I think I've got about 15 and then they go back and they go like Oh my word. I actually have got 68 How is this possible? And the counter confess is not something to go oh, well you have so many and God What are you thinking but more like wow, this is why you feel overwhelmed by the clutter.

25:00
because you didn't, you don't realize how many you have, and the counting and confessing helps you with kind of confronting yourself with the amount in your home. Yeah, which all leads against that sort of self awareness, awareness, you know, whatever that is. That's what it's all about. It's about understanding the why that sits behind the stuff. And then you can make strides to try and change it. So yeah, we love our reset home challenge is coming up in next week of thinking with starts on the fourth of September, all the details will be linked in the show notes here. So do

25:34
check it out, you'll get much more detail in there about what rooms we're covering what days we're doing. It's a combination of live sessions of Ingrid and I am explaining what we think about things, little mini bits of her work for you, this is not overwhelming, you're not coming into the reset your home challenge. And we're thinking that you're going to be decluttering, from Monday to Friday, that's not the way this works. This is more about learning, you can do the doing and many people do do some doing. But we don't want you to think that that's what you have to do. So if you're like, Oh, I've got a crazy week, I can't do that. Don't worry about it. Because it's not essential that you actually do the doing next week, we'd rather that you do the learning that you break through in terms of that self awareness, do the counseling conferences to kind of confront yourself a little bit with the volumes and so you know what you're working with typically, and then you can start to really take it back and go right. Okay, so how am I going to then fix this? Yeah. And I think it's well, I think the lovely thing about research, your whole challenge is that we see the light bulbs going on, right? We see people going, Oh, wow, I've never looked at it from that way. You've completely opened my eyes to things I hadn't even realized. And I suddenly I'm, I'm getting more aware of why I'm struggling with things that I didn't even understood. I just thought, Okay, well, why cannot throw this away. And the way we explain things, and we talk about the emotions connected to clutter, and how we break that down into the five days of the challenge gives people an awareness that and they they grow and learn so much in that week. And that's where I think the winds really come from so Ingrid, why do we think that the reset your home challenge is different, or better, or an alternative solution to the podcast, I think you know, the podcast, we love our podcasts, everybody knows that listens knows we love doing the podcast. But of course in the podcast, we talk a lot about decluttering and organizing. But we jump from one topic to the next. You know, when we talk about something different and we can't talk about the same thing all the time. You know, we do different topics, we got guests, sometimes we try to do emotional podcasts and practical podcasts and 10 things podcasts. So we kind of jump from one thing to the next. But in the challenge, we work together, we're there with you, we talk it through, we share in our wins together allied books together, we give a lot of our learning that we're sharing a challenge as well. And we take you on a path of We're now here, and we're going to talk about this and we do it in a structured way. I think that's it, it's really all about that structure. Structure is a big one, it focuses your attention on a certain place. For that day of the challenge. I think you also talked in wood, about the fact that we do things together, I think there's something very powerful and empowering about working alongside other people as well. So you can share as much or as little as you want to. But there will be groups set up where you can share with other people. And I think sometimes just to even know that other people have gone through similar kind of lightbulb moments and emotions and sharing is very freeing, and you know, helps you to go to that next stage. So I'm excited. So while since we've done it, you know, it's an interesting one, because Ingrid and I, we do do different challenges throughout the year. But the reset your home challenge, honestly, is the most powerful challenge that we do by a mile. And that's why we tweak it a little bit. We change it a little bit. So there's some fresh content within there. But we keep on bringing it back because we know that that's the a lot a lot of times the real starting point on people's decluttering journey. Yeah, you know what we've we've we've all had the summer, now it's time to kind of get back into look at that second half of the year. Right. Kids are back to school. I'm back in my job. Volunteering is all starting back up again, isn't it around September time. So we would love for you to go right? How am I envisioning myself between now and the end of the year? What can I do? If clutter and decluttering is your main focus? This is the perfect challenge for you to get involved in. This is the perfect challenge for you to go actually, you know what, I'm ready for this. Now I wanted to break down I want to hang out with in real estate for the week. I want to do learning I want to feel motivated and supported. And that's exactly what we're going to give you excited. We'll get you home

30:00
Challenge. I do I do. And because we get to hang out with lots of people and we can talk about clutter and all the things that we can do to help so I mean, what's better than that, Lesley? Exactly. So come and join us for our challenge. We would love to see you there. You can sign up on Declutter. hub.com forward slash ry H. You can also find the link in the show notes. We would love to see you there. And yeah, have a great week, everyone. Thanks for listening.

30:31
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