Episode 205 – Are you a heaper or a sweeper

Are you a heaper or a sweeper? We’ve mentioned sweep bags lots of times on the podcast before but heaping is a new one we’d like to introduce you too. Is heaping better or worse than sweeping. Let’s find out.

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Transcript of this podcast episode

[00:00:00] Ingrid: Are you a heaper or a sweeper? We've mentioned sweep bags lots of times on the podcast before, but heaping is a new one we'd like to introduce you to. Is heaping better or worse than sweeping? Let's find out.

[00:00:17] Lesley: So, without further ado, Ingrid. What is today's podcast all about?

[00:00:23] Ingrid: Explain all. Well today, Lesley, we are talking about heaping or sweeping, and this kind of all came about because we talk about sweeping and sweep bags a lot. And then one of our members came to our, uh, one of our live sessions and she said, I don't think I'm actually a sweeper. I'm more of a heaper. And it just gave us the giggles and we thought, Podcast about this and explain what a sweeper or a heaper is and what's the difference.

[00:00:55] What are the pros and cons about heaping or sweeping? Are there any pros, Lesley? I mean, let's, let's del let's delve into that, but let's, I think people 

[00:01:03] Lesley: have never been more excited to find out what heaper is. English. That's, that's my, that's my ho. So anyway, before we talk about heaping, Let's talk about sweeping, 'cause we've talked about that many, many times.

[00:01:18] This is like the most bizarre podcast ever, isn't it? He and sweeping, it's kind of making me laugh already, whether we're actually going to get to the end of it and give some, uh, some gems remains to be seen, right. Ingrid, you explain. Let's get serious and talk about Yeah. What is sweeping? 

[00:01:37] Ingrid: Well, Lesley sweeping.

[00:01:40] Is, I think it's, I think it's a made up word that we've made up, but what we, it, there's a reason for it because we see sweep bags all the time at our client's houses and. Running the the Clut Trap membership. Our members have told us about their sweep bags too. So basically, what is a sweep? A sweep is an an action of running around your house with a plastic bag, a laundry basket, a bag for life, an empty IKEA bag, a box of some sort, and you run around and you think, oh, I've got company coming over, somebody's coming to my house.

[00:02:22] My house looks really messy. Let me do a quick kind of tidy up. Just throw everything in a box, but you're not tidying up because tidying up is actually putting stuff back into the right place. But this stuff is out randomly. You don't know yet where the right place is because you might not have been with the Declutter hub for a long time, or you might not be in our membership, so you don't have the right place.

[00:02:46] So you just think, I'm just going to grab it back. Throw everything in and then I'll look at it another time, and this is how sweep bags are created by doing sweeping around your home. And it can be one bag or two or three bags when company comes over, or it can be something that gets done on a regular basis because you're feeling really overwhelmed.

[00:03:08] You don't know what to do. You don't know where to start. You think, oh, okay, then let me just shovel some stuff in the back. Quickly clear the dining room table so we can have dinner or. I need to do some crafting. I need to have a, a flat space ready. There's all this stuff here. I don't know what to do with it.

[00:03:23] Where it goes. Just, just kind of go over with your arm over the table, whoop, all in a bag or in a box. And there you go. You get a roof. Full stuff. 

[00:03:34] Lesley: It's now we've talked, we've talked about sweeping, now we've, now we've included shoveling. So it's like we've got sweeping bushes, we've got shovels coming into play.

[00:03:44] There's a lot going on here. Now we're doing whooshing into a bag. So you get the very nicely explaining with, and the types of things that typically end up in sweet bags are. Of paperwork kind of coins, old candles. Um, you know, often we get things like passports that are there. They get thrown into a sweet bag, and this is where sweet bags get super dangerous because we're just gathering loads and loads of stuff.

[00:04:09] We're doing it very quickly without much thinking, without any kind of analysis of what it is. Putting it all into a bag. There's bits of food, things that you bought from the shops, receipts, things that need to be returned. They all end up in that sweet bag. And sometimes they don't come out and that's when things get lost.

[00:04:26] So those are the types of things that end up in a sweet bag. Now, I think it's fair to say, Ingrid, that there is an upside to doing a sweep. You're going to feel a little bit bit more in control if someone suddenly was dropping by unexpected, you're going to feel like you are. Sort of showing your house off in a better order, so you're going to feel better about it.

[00:04:46] That's the upside. You have cleared down some surfaces, but it's very, very temporary and can be quite, damaging is the wrong word, but detrimental I guess, to your decluttering 

[00:04:58] Ingrid: journey. Yes. I think it, it, it's a, it's a super quick fix, isn't it? Yeah. It's a quick fix that you think, okay, lemme just squiggly tidy up, move some stuff to the side.

[00:05:10] But deep down, I think people know they're just moving the problem. And when you do this once or twice with a sweet bag, you know, no harm done. You get them out later, you ti it all up. But when this is something that you do on a very, very regular basis and there's a room somewhere in your house with. Not one, not two, but maybe 20 or 40 of these bags, then you are going to really get into bit of trouble because you are going to definitely lose items.

[00:05:47] So there's, there's, there's a lot of downsides to doing a sweep, isn't there? There 

[00:05:52] Lesley: is. There is, and and we see it all too often. And it is, and that's when things absolutely get lost, isn't it? Yeah. So in these sweet bags, all those things that you've not found, they will undoubtedly be in a sweet bag, but if you've got multiple sweet bags, then you find it very difficult to go through them and find what you need.

[00:06:08] So whilst there is a very, very temporary quick fix, as Ingrid says, In the long run, you're better off not doing this and investing little chunks of time to getting stuff sorted. So we talked about sweeping Ingrid. What is heaping? Because that is new terminology 

[00:06:26] Ingrid: for us. Well, it just, it, it just, I, it caught me by surprise and I actually knew exactly what our member meant with heaping.

[00:06:35] I had just never, I think because it also. It rolls off the tongue so nicely. Heaping or sweeping. I think that's why it kind of stuck with us, because we like that kind of alliteration, don't we, Lesley? Yeah. But I think. When she said it, I was like, yes. People do heap things up when you see kind of piles of stuff around people's houses and they kind of look like relatively neat piles.

[00:07:01] They're quite similar items, but you do kind of wonder what is this stuff doing there? Why is there a heap of stuff next to the sofa, the bed? On the kitchen counter, on the floor somewhere stuck, precariously on a little table in the hallway. It's like, why? Why is this all this sort of normally not very random.

[00:07:24] I mean, it can be, but there's sometimes some order and that's I think, what makes heaping different from sweeping. 

[00:07:32] Lesley: Yeah. And so it's an interesting one, isn't it? And so I think it gives the illusion of being more orderly by heaping stuff together. So say for example, if it was p a p a pad of paperwork, which is sort of typical, and this paperwork had been gathered, it was sort of all around the house, you know, there was a bit on the kitchen, work surfaces a little bit in the hallway, a little bit on the floor, a little bit next to your bedside cabinet, some that's come out of your handbag or your work bag.

[00:07:58] And so I think what people typically do is gather all of those pieces of paper together and put them in a nice, neat little pile, and it feels so much better than having them in random places. So heaping is definitely a thing that happens with paperwork. I think that another example of heaping is clothes as well.

[00:08:16] So I. You've not quite got round to doing the washing, the ironing, the putting away. And so you heap all these together. So you might have your laundry pile and you sort it into piles of, of blacks, whites, and colored, but you don't quite get round to putting it in the, uh, washing machine or everything's ready and it's not quite ready for the ironing or you've done the ironing and it's still in a nice little pal, but it's not quite put away.

[00:08:39] So heap is definitely evidence of procrastination, isn't it, for the most part. But it looks neater. So a pile of washing that is neatly folded and ready to put away looks better than a random heat full of stuff all over the kitchen, doesn't it? 

[00:08:55] Ingrid: Yes. And I think you, is exactly what you say, Lesley. It creates the illusion of it being tidier.

[00:09:02] But the thing is, we know there's unfinished business, you know, of all these little piles. You know, that folding some people just absolutely dislike putting stuff away. Where they folded it, they've ironed it. And it just doesn't make it to the cupboards. And there's this like this pile of stuff that is clean, that's folded, that's iron, and it doesn't make it back.

[00:09:24] Now there's whole other reasons why it doesn't go back, but it's because the cupboards are probably too full and the stuff can't be put away. And that's what's the bigger issue behind all these piles of stuff everywhere. It can't go to the right place, but because it's quite the same kind of item, it looks neater, so it looks less chaotic, less messy, but it's still unfinished jobs that haven't been done.

[00:09:50] I. 

[00:09:51] Lesley: So I definitely think that heaping is better than sweeping on balance. Neither of them are ideal. So we're going to pop back after the break and we're going to talk about how you can avoid both heaping and sweeping. 

[00:10:02] Ingrid: Before the break we were talking about heaping and sweeping. We talked about what sweeping is, the upsides and downsides, and we started talking about what heaping is. Now, Lesley, is there an upside of heaping? 

[00:10:16] Lesley: Is there an upside of heping? Yes. Because you have done a little bit, you have done the gathering like with like, which is part of the organisational process, isn't it?

[00:10:24] And can be part of the decluttering process as well. It's very useful to see what you've got and to have it all gathered together. In fact, it's something that we would absolutely recommend when you are decluttering is try to gather lots of similar things together so you can understand and you can see the volumes that you have before you get started.

[00:10:41] So yes, there is an upside to um, heaping for sure. But what we're interested in is why are we not getting to the end? 'cause all of these things, heaping or sweeping, are both. Unfinished business, as you say, they're both, well, they're not re heaping is not really a quick fix, but they're both doing part of the process, but not all of it.

[00:11:02] Ingrid: Yes. I think exactly what you said, Lesley, you procrastinate about something. That's why it ends up in a pile. But what can we do then to prevent this from happening? I definitely agree. For me personally, heaping is better than sweeping. I mean, we've seen the sweet bags, haven't we? We've seen the sweet bag with like.

[00:11:22] Tons of different kinds of things. It's like, how do all of these different bits end up in a bag? It's like, it's amazing. But the problem is that a lot of times these items don't have homes, and you see the similar kind of items in the sweet bags. So if you then unpack 10, 20 sweet bags, You will see the same categories.

[00:11:41] There's toiletries, there's, there's batteries, there's coins, there's paperwork, there's a random kitchen item. It's the same thing. So that's why I think it's so satisfying to do sweep bags, but that's by the buy. But if you look at what's better, heaping or sweeping, I would de say heaping because at least it's all together already.

[00:12:02] It's still not ideal. 

[00:12:03] Lesley: No, it's so interesting 'cause what people talk about is, which is the part of decluttering that doesn't get done. Part of the decluttering and organising process, and actually interestingly starting I'm finishing, are the two bits that people find the most difficult. So people are like, well, I don't really know where to start, so I just never get started.

[00:12:23] And actually what we find then towards the end, people do 80, 85% of the project, but they don't get that. Finished stage. They don't do that final push of taking stuff to the charity shop, of putting things away, of doing that final Hoover around. And it's so, so important so that you can then look back, give yourself that pat on the back and say, I did that.

[00:12:44] And then it motivates you on, because if you only get 80% through. What you're looking at is what you've got left to do and not what you've already done. Whereas if you get to the end of the process, it's much more satisfying, isn't it? And and you feel much more 

[00:12:57] Ingrid: accomplished. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, perfect example is indeed laundry.

[00:13:03] I mean, normally putting away laundry once it's folded and ironed and done. It should only take a couple of minutes, but the problem is that the cupboards are too full and that's that last little stage. But then what happens is this laundry starts to pile up. People start to pull stuff from the pile, so it gets less neat than it was before.

[00:13:26] So that neat pile that you created of stuff gets. More messy. Then somebody dumps something on there that's maybe dirty and not clean, and iron then washed, and then you start to go into a vicious cycle of, oh my goodness, was that not clean? Was that dirty? Yeah. And then you might kind of grab it all up and go, okay, I'll wash that again.

[00:13:46] So you're giving yourself lots of extra work. While I think. Realizing what, where does the system break down? Where, what is the part in the cycle of success that I struggle with? And indeed it's that finishing phase. It is deciding whether it's a heap or a sweet bag. Where do these items live? So I know next time when I find an item, I can put it away.

[00:14:10] It doesn't have to be the place of all places for everyone there ever there to live, but you need to assign something. Just say, you know what? I don't know where batteries live. I've got an empty little tub here. I'm going to put it here. And this is where the empty batteries live until I find the place where they definitely go.

[00:14:26] But at least I know now where they are. And that makes all the difference. 

[00:14:31] Lesley: I think it does. I've been thinking and reflecting whilst you've been chatting there, Ingrid about. What the purpose of this podcast is. And so ordinarily we try and give solutions and this the solution to not heaping and sweeping is a tough one because it is almost, you need to do everything that we teach in terms of decluttering and organising.

[00:14:50] So to get to that point where you've got enough space and you know you have got a designated space for everything and you feel comfortable putting it away, and it's not difficult, you don't procrastinate all of those things. Involve a lot of learning in the process to get to that point, don't they? So it's so.

[00:15:09] The purpose of this podcast was really to recognize these traits in yourself as being problematic. So it's not that we're going to give you a solution. Well, there's, we could give you a solution, which is come into our membership and learn everything that we teach you, and then you won't heap and sweep again.

[00:15:25] Basically, that's the solution, but actually just recognizing that you, yeah. Do these things is really powerful as well. And that's where the light bulbs go on and go, yeah, I do do that. I do do that sweeping and I realize how detrimental that is and how much that's setting me back. Yeah. I am that person who heaps things together and thinks that that's the job done At that point, I put all my paperwork together, but I don't get, get, I.

[00:15:48] Round to that point of putting it all away, or I do do my laundry and then it all gets in a jumble because someone comes and takes it all away when I've done all the hard work. That's the thing with heaping is you've actually done a lot of the hard work at that point, but by not getting to that finished phase, it's 

[00:16:02] Ingrid: detrimental.

[00:16:04] You know what, Lesley, while you were talking, I was thinking this is, so this reminds me also so much about the resets we talk about and. Those are definitely light bulbs. You know what the podcast with Maryanne is a really good example. She's one of our members. We did a podcast with her a couple of podcasts ago, and she said, once I started to understand what you mean with resets and I have to do them on a daily basis and that.

[00:16:33] A weekly reset is something different than a daily reset, and now I do that every day and it's really, it resonated with her so much, and I think it's the same because she doesn't heap and sweep anymore now, but she builds up time in her schedule at the end of the day. Five or 10 minutes tidy up in a workshop where she does her flower arranging and where she makes all her B bouquets and stuff that prevents her from heping sweeping.

[00:17:00] Perfect example. She said I would never have scissors because they were everywhere and I kept buying them over and over and over again. And I think that's what happens if people lose stuff so much in in sweet bags and in heaping piles that you end up. Losing so much time and losing so much money as well because you have to buy an item over and over again because it's somewhere out there.

[00:17:27] Lesley: And also, Ingrid, in that first podcast we did with Tom Watson, he talked about boring time. Do you remember? And he is like, he designated 15 minutes a day of. Boring tasks that he didn't want to do, but he is like, it's boring time now, so I've got to go and do my reset, put things away, do all those things. So that was in his schedule to do boring time.

[00:17:45] And so we all have to find our, our way. We have to find our strategy, that strategy that's going to work for us, don't we? Daily resets, boring time, whatever you want to call them, those things. Do need to be done. Yeah. In order for you to achieve and to get to that end point. Yeah. And that's what this podcast was all about.

[00:18:04] It's become apparent by the end of the podcast, Ingrid, why we actually did this podcast. So, no, it's an interesting one, isn't it? 'cause the solution is, You've got a long way to go to get beyond that point, but just that recognition that that's one of your traits is very powerful. Yeah. 

[00:18:20] Ingrid: Yeah. I think the realization that there can be a different way and that hipping and sweeping is not the way to go, and that you can have a lot less stress and panic in your life all the time.

[00:18:32] And yeah. And that's why we, we record this podcast to, to share with our listeners our, our knowledge. And yes, listeners. Have you realized maybe now, are you a heaper or a sweeper? And have you come to the realization, I no longer want to be, I need to hang out with Lesley Ingrid in their membership because I want to stop heaping and sweeping no more.

[00:18:55] Or maybe you're like, wow, I had never realized that I did this in the first place. And yes, I have sweet and I have loads of them, and I want to tackle this. Or maybe you're like, wow, yeah, I am indeed a heer. I'm not a sweeper at all. Tell us in the show notes, go to declutter hub.com/ 2 0 5 and tell us in the comments.

[00:19:20] We would love to hear from you. We want to know, are you a heer or a sweeper, or have you maybe changed your ways by listening to our podcast? 

[00:19:30] Lesley: Yeah, I'm going to, I'm trying to think of some other things that we could have. 'cause we could definitely go somewhere with this. We could have sleepers as well. And there'll definitely be some sleepers who are like, yeah, I'm just going to go for a little nap instead of doing anything.

[00:19:41] Then we've got people who might go deeper. Um, what else have we got? A keeper, keeper. 

[00:19:47] Ingrid: Um, 

[00:19:48] Lesley: come on, Ingrid. Oh, 

[00:19:49] Ingrid: God. Yeah. I'm, I'm good at this kind of stuff. That, that that's what you do, Lesley. 

[00:19:53] Lesley: Yeah, I know. But yeah, we're definitely going to go beyond that. Definitely the Sleeper and the Keeper could be spoken about in a podcast.

[00:20:01] Maybe there's another podcast. Tell us what ends in EPA that we could talk about that's related to decluttering. And we'll bring out another podcast for you. I think I'd like to do the Be the Sleeper 

[00:20:11] one. 

[00:20:12] Ingrid: You want to do nap Lesley? I do. I do. 

[00:20:15] Lesley: And on that note, it's like, what? Shall I just go and have a nap for this 

[00:20:18] Ingrid: afternoon instead?

[00:20:19] No. No, you can't. We have work to do. We, uh, we of course we always have work to do, but nevermind. Let's tell our listeners what we're doing next week, because next week you are talking to Penny from the Clean and Tidy show. Lesley, what that is that all about. Yes. 

[00:20:36] Lesley: And so we are talking at the Clean and Tidy Show in October, which is Xcel in London, and it's really interesting how this came about.

[00:20:44] So I'm talking to Penny about why she decided to do a clean and tidy show. So she's going to tell us all about the principle and the philosophy behind that show, which is going to be super cool, and we're very excited to 

[00:20:57] Ingrid: be a part of. I know I can't wait to be on stage and have a stand and hopefully talk to lots of people.

[00:21:04] I mean, I, I'm excited about it. So yes, that's going to be next week's podcast. So thanks everyone for listening, and we hope to see you at our next one.

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Episode 346 – Pros and cons of decluttering one item a day

Episode 345 – 10 things to declutter from your junk drawer

Episode 340 – Tackling cardboard boxes – both empty and full

Episode 339 – A developing ADHD Journey with Lesley’s son, Luke

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Ana says:

15 September 2022 at 4:57 PM

I'm a combo heaper and sweeper. Heaper with paperwork. Sweeper with toys and knick knacks. But I have made progress. I try to keep up with my daily resets to keep heaps and sweeps (junk baskets) to a minimum. I definitely find that the last step is sometimes the hardest. Just putting the stuff away. It's a weird mental block.

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  15 September 2022 at 5:12 PM
  
  Keep going Ana and thank you for sharing.
  
  Reply
Christie says:

3 September 2022 at 9:05 PM

Sweep bags had never occurred to me, but they did, as a solution, to my long suffering husband who after months of asking me to move my clutter eventually swept it into bags in the utility room. I found my passport in there. I myself am a heaper of at least 20 years. I heap into those cardboard storage boxes. Which feels like order except they are in stacks which could fall and they cover all the shelf and surface space.

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  4 September 2022 at 4:44 PM
  
  Christie these sweep boxes can really end up being a problem. Hope you had a chance to listen to our other podcast as well about sweeping.
  
  Reply
Paula Stewart says:

2 September 2022 at 3:07 PM

This so resonates with me. I’m a heaper and a sweeper

Reply
1. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  4 September 2022 at 4:43 PM
  
  Glad this podcast resonated and you have this insight now Paula.
  
  Reply
Chris Mitchell says:

2 September 2022 at 12:34 PM

OMG – I'm a heaper! Never really identified with this Sweeper-lark and now I know why!
Brilliant podcast – what about doing a poll amongst members to see the split?
n.b. other categories: Peeper (watches others clean and tidy)
Creeper (creeps past the mess)
Leaper (vaults over the mess)
Weeper (sits and cries about the mess)

Reply
1. Christie says:
  
  3 September 2022 at 9:08 PM
  
  I have been a weeper when the contents of my vastly overstuffed wardrobe fell down on me. My husband drove me to buy some storage boxes which are now blocking access to an en suite bathroom. Doh!
  
  Reply
  1. Ingrid Jansen says:
    
    4 September 2022 at 4:40 PM
    
    Oh no Christie. Hope you didn't hurt yourself when things fell down.
2. Ingrid Jansen says:
  
  4 September 2022 at 4:40 PM
  
  I feel a post in the forum coming up Chris!
  
  Reply

Episode 205 – Are you a heaper or a sweeper

Episode 346 – Pros and cons of decluttering one item a day

Episode 345 – 10 things to declutter from your junk drawer

Episode 340 – Tackling cardboard boxes – both empty and full

Episode 339 – A developing ADHD Journey with Lesley’s son, Luke

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