Episode 417 – How member Michelle Decluttered Her Way to a Fresh Start one floor up

Ingrid: Moving home is one of life's biggest upheavals, and it doesn't matter whether you're relocating across the country or just one floor up in a New York City apartment building. The distance of a move has absolutely nothing to do with the size of the job. In this episode, I'm delighted to welcome Inner Hub member Michelle, who did exactly that.

We're chatting about what prompted her move, how she approached the decluttering process, the very real challenges of downsizing during a major life transition, and how having the right support around her made the whole experience feel that little bit more manageable

Ingrid: Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid.

Lesley: And I am Lesley. Now, if you are here for the very first time today, or you've been listening in for ages, we want to say a huge thank you we have a little favour to ask.

Ingrid: If you like what you hear, be sure to hit that follow or subscribe button. Share us with your friends or leave us a review. It makes a huge difference to us.

hello Michelle. Thank you so much for being here and for, agreeing to record this podcast with us because we're always so delighted if our members say yes if we would like to invite them on the podcast. So thank you so much. I really appreciate it

Michelle: I'm delighted too, Ingrid, and in some ways shocked to, to be here. would've expected a couple of years to be, ago to be on something, on a podcast about decluttering

Ingrid: Let's definitely dive into that in a moment, Michelle. But before we start, let's just admire the amazing view behind you, because if you're watching this on YouTube, you might see, it is a white sky now on the video, but in real life it's a blue sky with a lot of skyscrapers. So you really are in New York, aren't you?

Michelle: in Lower Manhattan, and when it's not so sunny... The problem is the sun. and, when it's not so sunny, you can actually see the Freedom Tower, so I'm facing south, so I do have a fabulous view.

Ingrid: Amazing, amazing. So on what floor are you on now?

Michelle: 52nd.

Ingrid: On the f- oh gosh, that's higher than

Michelle: Yep.

Ingrid: okay.

Michelle: up. H-

Ingrid: It's very high up

Michelle: up that, on days that it's really windy, not only does it howl up here, but the water in the toilet moves, so the building sways a little bit. It's unnerving for people, but yeah

Ingrid: Good to know. Good to know. Okay. now today we're gonna really dive into, indeed, decluttering and your recent house move. but you've also been downsizing. You've got a lot of transitions going on, and we just... you were doing so incredibly well in the Inner Hub, and at just one point I was like, "We need to talk to you about this."

So thank you so much, and, I would love to know more indeed why you had never thought a couple of years ago why you would ever be come on a decluttering podcast. So why would you never have thought that?

Michelle: I think, I ha- I identified as, this corporate executive, right? My, my priority was my family and my career. and really, th- the home was just something to support those two things, right?

quite frankly, I had, when the kids moved out, more space than I needed.

And it's funny how no matter how much space you have, it fills up. So

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: had the problem, but like problem with too much stuff, but like just it was an identity thing. It's oh, I'm not a pers- like, I'm not that kind of person, right? And maybe at some point I wasn't, but I am now.

Yeah.

Ingrid: definitely. So have you always, with your family, lived in a tower block this high up or do... Okay

Michelle: I raised my sons in the suburbs in, suburban two, two story colonial home. Yeah

Ingrid: Yeah, definitely. Ah, okay, So you already had to downsize when you moved into an apartment then, can I assume that?

Michelle: Yeah, I, in fact, I, did, about 10 years, no more than that, 12 years ago, moved right from the big house to, actually in with a partner and then into an apartment, i- in New York City. Moved back out and back in, but yeah, over the last, 12 years went from the big house in the suburbs to, at one point, a one-bedroom here in the city

Ingrid: Now, what is so interesting, and I think what really piqued my interest with your house move, is that you actually, first of all, only moved one floor up, which of course normally people... we've got members in our membership who are moving across the country or to another state or to another, but you only moved one floor up.

And you actually said, I might have only moved one floor up, but actually the work is the same." And it was almost like a light bulb moment for me, and I thought, "You're absolutely right." So I found that really interesting. And the second thing, that, why you're here as well on this podcast is because you did such a phenomenal quick job.

One moment you were moving, and the next moment you're like, "Yeah, I'm unpacked." And I think we're all like, "What? H- how is this possible?" So tell me a little bit about this house move. Why did you decide to move up? What did it involve? Did you have help? I would love to know, the nitty-gritty of this.

Michelle: when I moved here, to this building eight and a half years ago,

from a townhouse in New Jersey that was bigger, w- it was for a job close by. It was the first time in my life I was able to walk to work. and I, at the time, I didn't think I would be here that long, right?

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: doesn't... I probably overshot with the one bedroom. I only at that time only had three grandkids. I now have six, and they're bigger. and so when I moved, I didn't think I was gonna be here that long, and I was, quite frankly, I was working, so I, moved, and there was stuff that got done the first weekend, and then literally, I moved the end of January, and my s- my former sister-in-law came and stayed in September.

She watched my dogs, and she called me and said, "Do you mind if I hang your art?" 'Cause it was still sitting, still, right? and so my lesson from that is if it doesn't, if you don't do it right away, like it becomes, you're clutter blind. you get accustomed to the boxes sitting around, and there's nothing wrong, and I also knew that when I moved to, this, 'cause I had more space, I have a spare bedroom, that it would've been really easy to throw everything in that, make it a room of doom, and, just close the door and not look at it.

And I was determined to, get on with this new life in this new fabulous place, just said, "It's not, all gonna happen," it like, it's gonna... I tend to move quickly anyway, but I think the biggest thing the community d- did would help. it... You get tired at a point it's "I don't wanna do this." In some ways it's boring after you have the stuff that you really need, but the community helped me with yeah, I committed to getting unpacked within a week, said that publicly to the community, and it's I'm not gonna let the community down.

Ingrid: So do I understand correctly that you've actually moved now to a bigger apartment with an extra bedroom? I see.

Michelle: bedroom and

Ingrid: S-

Michelle: bath. Yep

Ingrid: okay. And was that because of, I think you have six grandchildren now, right?

Michelle: Yeah, 'cause I, want them to be able to come and stay. It's, it was getting a little bit awkward. in a couple weeks, five of them are gonna come and stay for a weekend. And, right? they're just getting too big to be on the couch, in the bed with me, on the floor, right? And it w- anytime I had a guest at all, and people wanna come visit me in New York for some reason,

Ingrid: Yeah,

Michelle: I had to put 'em on the couch, right?

So it just... Th- in this point in my life, I wanna be able to have... of other times it was like, oh, I didn't have time to have, guests. and it's that's what I want. I wanna be able to share this with people. So yeah, I

Ingrid: Yeah.

Michelle: bit more space.

Ingrid: I see. So you upsized in bedrooms and, bathrooms, but d- did your stuff downsize when you moved from one, one floor up

Michelle: It went down and up, right? So I, was very mindful of, on, everything that I packed is like really taking a moment to say, "Is this part of my prior life or is this part of my present and my future?" And probably the biggest things that went in the move proc- I still had like corporate swag and mementos from things that I had done at other points in my life.

It's A- and it was really like, do I really need this mug to remind me, right? photos on my phone, and I had the memories and everything else. It's like the mug, the hat, the, just way too many... And I'm a book person, way too many books. I didn't have to worry about decluttering your book, 'cause I got the audio version, so there was nothing to declutter. so but being mindful, like they're just, whether it's do I... These kind of dishes or glasses, am I really, did I use... And e- some of them, even when I started with, you folks a year and a half ago, it went through two phases, and it I had to build the muscle as you, as y- you said, right?

But it's just like I haven't used it in a year and a half.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Michelle: the likelihood? And odd things like, actually there's one odd thing, a, juicer, and it's really funny. I couldn't remember the last time I used it, a little hand thing, and then I needed one like a week ago.

And it's okay, so if I have to buy a $5 juicer, it's

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: And I do think sometimes you have to it a little bit to realize you've gone like, far enough.

Ingrid: Yeah

Yeah. definitely. Definitely. So did you do all the packing yourself?

Michelle: almost all of the packing. The only thing I didn't pack myself was, like, my crystal, like one, one cabinet's worth of thing. 'Cause honestly, I didn't want to... This is... I didn't buy anything pack or, things up, so I managed to get, boxes. People offered them on Buy Nothing, which is something we have here in the US on Facebook.

So I

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: ask on Buy Nothing, I will tell you, in the past, I would've, been mortified to ask. And it's it- and part of it was, why should I pay the money? Why should I create more stuff to end up in a landfill? So everything that I used, I, and I, have no shame now. I went to the recycling room in the building. I just, they're perfectly good boxes. So

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: packed in, I got some packing materials and boxes, and really part of it with the crystal was I don't wanna have to go buy all the paper and then throw it out, where the guys were able to... They did it, they had bins and just laid them in blankets 'cause they were, that's where one way, one place where they're just moving it up in the elevator.

They didn't have to pack it as securely as if they had to put it into a truck, get, let it go on the truck, So that was,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: of, that was part of my, yeah, I didn't wanna buy materials, but yeah, everything, my clothing, my not insignificant... Still, I still have b- a lot of books. Yeah, I packed everything myself.

Ingrid: Okay. And, did you pack it per category? Did you think that through or did you just randomly start thinking, "Okay, I'll just see how I go," or do you did... How-

Michelle: I've been, with you guys too long. no, I did the, I, And it's funny 'cause I had been on the wait, I'd been on the waiting list for, the apartment, and then it almost happened in a week, but

in about a month, and all I did, I got your little checklist, right?

And I sorta did, a little plan, room by room and over time, and just said, "What c- what can be packed at one point I got to, "I can't pack anything more right now

Ingrid: Yeah.

Michelle: I'm gonna need the stuff." But my, of season clothes could go, right? whittled down h- like it's I have 12 dishes. It's just me, right? I don't need them all. I don't, I don't need the soup bowls during the summer and things like that. So I was planned out, what can get packed, right? Like

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: books, most of the books could go,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: early. Yeah.

Ingrid: Yeah. definitely. I see. did you... When you were packing up, did you also find some things that you thought, "Oh, now is the perfect time to declutter it and look at this"?

Michelle: There was a mission that, every box, there had to be at least one thing, right? that was my mission, right? It's like there's just... out of the books, it's okay, really, this one can, this one I can donate to the library, 'cause even if I wanna read it aga- and that, a lot of the books were, even if I wanna read it again, do I want it sitting on the shelf all the time?

I just get it, I'll get it out of the library if I wanna read it

Ingrid: Yeah

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And so the items that you found to declutter, what did you do with them? how do you do that in New York City? I can just load it in my car and I can just drive to the charity shop and, or people can come to my front door and pick up something. How does that work when you live on the 52nd floor up in a, of a skyscraper?

Michelle: So, the books mostly go to the library, to my local branch of the library, which I wanna support anyway, right?

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: people, when you donate them, people pay what they want to have them and the money goes to the library.

Ingrid: Perfect

Michelle: And it's easy. Sometimes it's a little heavy. I finally bought one of them, I don't know if they're as popular there, those Hulken bags with, on wheels. don't know if...

Ingrid: Oh, I see. yeah,

Michelle: like 'cause the books are very heavy, so like I, I didn't, I've been meaning to buy one anyway, but it's like it's an easy way to cart things around. yeah, so I, that's where the books go. And then some of the things I try not to like, ask, my family members if they want things.

I don't assume they want them. So there were some things that went to family members, and then the bulk of it I posted on Buy Nothing. And this was the probably the first time that I put some time urgency. Like I, whatever I was doing, , it's like you gotta pick it up within the next week, right?

Ingrid: yeah,

Michelle: like it just usually I'll let it hang, but needed, to keep it, I needed to keep it moving. And what I found is people will take almost anything.

Ingrid: yeah

Michelle: it was, I had, I, don't drink and I had a stash of liquor. and most of the, my f- most of my family doesn't. And that one when I posted the liquor, like the half bottle of liquor, had a lot of takers for that. But people, like even s- half full containers of food, people will,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: yeah, people will take mostly everything. A- and then, on the flip side, some of the things I needed 'cause I went into more space, I waited till I moved, but asked.

It's I needed another duvet, right? And it's like filler. It's if I put it in the, it doesn't almost matter what condition it's in. If I put it in the washer and dryer,

fine, right? And, so yeah, most of it went to Buy Nothing

Ingrid: Yeah

Amazing. And what an, a diff- fantastic...

Michelle: buy

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: they pick it up from, most times. There are a couple people that I know that I'll drop it off for, but most times they come here

Ingrid: Yeah, and it's fantastic, isn't it? And this also, this way you can help your community and, it's a great way of,

Michelle: Yeah

Ingrid: let- not letting it sit

in your, cupboards and in your stocks anymore

Michelle: And, quite frankly, through my whole decluttering journey, there were times that someone's post prompted me... if I had something that I was on the fence about and somebody asked for it, it's "Okay, there's my message from the universe

Ingrid: It's time to

Michelle: let go of this."

Ingrid: I

Michelle: and things like... someone at one point posted looking for clothing for the local community college for kids to wear to interview in, and it's "Okay, this is the time to get rid of the corporate wardrobe."

Yeah.

Ingrid: I see. Oh yeah,

Michelle: Yeah.

Ingrid: that's really, good. So it almost feels like a sign, doesn't it?

Michelle: Yep.

Ingrid: sign to,

Michelle: Yep.

Ingrid: to let that go. Great. I love that so much. was it because, you really, honestly, you blew us away with that your wall hangings were up in, a week. So was that really something that was important for you?

You really wanted to have that finished look, or are you just really handy with a hammer and you were like, "I'm doing this," or

Michelle: things. I did have help with that, because, And, I had the situation where the last time, eight months later, it was still sitting on the floor, right?

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: I worried about, the dogs knocking it over, like the robot vacuum knocking it over, and yeah, it's just, I just wanted it to be done.

I wanted, this week, I've had, gue- houseguests here I guess three different times already. . So I, yeah, I wanted it ready for that. And it was part of just, I just wanna get on with this phase of my life.

Ingrid: Yeah

Amazing. So you are now no longer in corporate life. You are now, retired. would like to dive in a little bit that. So let's go for a quick break, and then I would love to know about that and how you also... how you ended up in The Inner Hub. I would love to know more. So listeners, don't go anywhere.

We'll see you after the break

Hello, listeners. Welcome back. I'm chatting to Michelle all about her house move one floor up in her apartment, building in New York, and she's very high up. And, she's just told us all about how that move went and what she did and what was important for her.

But of course, over time, Michelle used to be in the corporate world. She's now retired. So Michelle, how did you end up in the Inner Hub membership? Because you already mentioned you joined us about a year and a half ago. how come? What happened? What was the, trigger that you thought, "I need more help here"?

Michelle: Sure. at some point, I did, one of these sort of values and priorities assessment, right? And my pri- my priorities and value- my priorities have changed over the, the last five years or so, my life changed. And, something as basic as still f- f- my family's really important, but it's different now, right?

It's

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: living under my roof. It's people coming and going. it blessedly slowed down, and things were less frantic.

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: and you and I spoke about this when I first joined, right? I paid somebody right, to, take care of the house 'cause I, a life where I was out of the house at, after seven every morning and was pretty happy if I was home at ten after seven at night.

that was a good day,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: so it was... That was just like, was something I could outsource. and, quite frankly, when I first moved here, and was working, I still had someone doing. And then, I, said, "This is really ridiculous, that I can't do this on my own," because more recent job, I left at five o'clock, and I was home at ten after five. but it's just, it was nothing... just maintaining the house and doing the stuff was not something I'd ever done in my life. And I do think it's harder to learn things. You can, but it's harder to learn things, in life. So it was just place wasn't as tidy as I wanted it to be, right?

things filled up with And so I did one of your free challenges in January of twenty twenty-five, and I remember thinking, I was really struck by whole focus on emotion-based decluttering, and that was like, okay, that's my problem, right? Everything about my life and this place is about a life I'm no longer living, right?

and that was the... and I like a nice system. you guys have, your day by day and room by room, right? So there was something I could follow. a naturally curious person and love to learn, so it's I could learn to do this like I've learned to do other kinds of things, right?

and maybe some part of me before in my life thought it was almost, a little demeaning.

It's oh, I have more important things to do. But it's this is my home, right? This is where, I... I'm spending more in ti- honestly, when I was working- I, it w- I was al- mostly there in darkness but I left in

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: came home in the dark. Really didn't see things, didn't... didn't enjoy it at my home, and probably other people didn't enjoy it. yeah, it was just the... A- and have learned, also have learned, and this is probably in the last 10 years, the importance of community and whatever that is. And I'm also g- interested, quite frankly the fact that you guys were ba- weren't based in the US was a plus for me. Because when I was working, I had big global jobs and dealt with people around, around the world, and loved that, right? And my world had oddly become like geographically small again. So I love getting, being in a session, getting on a call with people who aren't from the US, right? Let's just... I like to talk to different kind of people, so this was a very different community for me, so that was like a big plus, too.

Ingrid: Yeah, And you have actually really gone from strength to strength in the community, haven't you? You've done a lot of the learning. you've done a lot of the... you are... we've just literally done a members-only challenge. You were in it. So of all the things, you mentioned a couple things, but what are...

of course, there's the community of people, right? we're in the UK, Lesley and I. We've got members all over the

Michelle: Yeah

Ingrid: world. You love that so much. And what is it about the community that you think, "I like these people. These are my kind of people"? What do you think it is, beside the fact that they're from all over the world, which is so interesting

Michelle: They're, they are non-judgmental, right? There are people at every end of this, right? And everybody is terribly supportive, right?

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: are people in that community that you almost wonder, it's "Why are they here?" Because they have it all together, right? they're the... it's... it's you can always get better.

You can always do more. And I think a lot of them are there, mostly, maybe at one point they weren't together, and are there now, to support, to keep on their journey, but to support others. And so that, that support from sort of unlikely people, right?

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: I, think it's just really magnificent. And then, I've, in any aspect of my life, I've never met a challenge I didn't love.

so the challenges and to, and the accountability, right? To say, "I'm gonna do this,"

Pub- semi-pub- in, in this community. And then, like I said, I feel a responsibility to the community. I set myself up on the, the recent challenge.

It's this is kinda crazy to say I'm gonna do this, right? While I'm moving

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: But I did it. and it was just a little... Number one, it kept me completely on track. yeah, and you can always... A- and I was always amused. I would... One of the advantages of being in the States with you guys being five hours ahead, and some people even further, is on days that I was stuck with the challenge, I could look at what everybody else and it's "Oh, yeah, you could use X for Christmas," right?

Or the Ziploc bag. it was some of those letters. It's they were just like, Yeah, so I had that advantage of, it's "Okay, can we be creative?" I think there was only one day that I... It might've been... was one day that I, think Q, that I just

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: with the letter Q.

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: yeah. yeah. So that, so oddly, like the challenges work for me and then just the, support of the community and, no question or no, a, challenge that you're having personally do people like, it's "What the heck is wrong with you?" everybody is "Either I've been there," or, "Here's things that I've done."

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: they're not really big things. It just occur, like it doesn't occur to me, right?

someone's gone through it or already has the answer. So that's,

Ingrid: Yeah.

Michelle: Yeah.

Ingrid: Yeah. Now, and I know I see you very regularly at our success sessions as well. we go onto Zoom four times per week on different days and different times, and I very, regularly see you, show up, which I love, just like loads of other members who come. What makes it about these success sessions that you think, "I'm gonna come and I'm gonna do this"?

Michelle: it, again, it's the accountability and community, right? So like at the beginning of the session, you say what you're gonna do. and I have now r- ramped it up, And I think, one of the other things that I came to through all this is trying to figure out like what made me successful, quite frankly, in my career, and what could appropriately transfer here, right?

So I've always been a planner, monthly, quarterly, monthly, whatever, but always on my professional life.

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: the only thing that might get planned was holidays, right?

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: Or some commitment. But y- now, I honestly, I do very high level on a monthly basis, with mostly commitments that have me right,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: That or away. but the one thing that I sit at my table and goes on my monthly is, your sessions, right? 'Cause

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: within reason, work around that because I

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: I can be very, that hour is one of the more productive hours of the day for me. So I just made

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: made it a priority.

Ingrid: I love that. I totally love that, and, it is a game changer for many people as well. So I think when we introduced them, we only did them I think one per week, and over time we've increased them because our members kept feeding back to us like, "It's so helpful." And s- some... Also for people who really struggle, Some people are very lonely, and they find it very hard to, motivate themselves to do some work. But when you are in a Zoom room with other people, you see everybody kind of plodding around and doing something. It's "Oh! Of course, everybody's doing something. Let me also get cracking with something."

Michelle: yeah, and I always find it interesting that like sometimes it just happens that there's themes, that everybody's cleaning out their fridge or everyone's doing the... it's just really... And and I got an idea. Somebody had the, 'Cause I'm like underway on the overall, overall decluttering.

But one, one session, and I'm probably gonna start instituting this once a week to just do minutes in five different rooms just to do a high level, right?

Ingrid: Yeah.

Michelle: find something, right? always,

Ingrid: Yeah,

Michelle: like open, just open the closet and is there something in there that hasn't been worn?

Or open a

Ingrid: yeah

Michelle: hasn't been

Ingrid: That indeed was my next question. Do you still find things that you think that, that can go?

Michelle: yeah, yeah, yeah. no, 'cause it's just probably look... It's just like the mindset thing,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: And, just being aware that you become blind to it, but it's like even, something as like a lipstick, it's okay, I have, two others that are very close, and this is kinda old, so it's probably not even good anymore.

Ingrid: Yeah.

Michelle: it could just go

Ingrid: yeah, definitely. So if you then look back over your last year and a half, have there been times that you found it very, that has been tricky or that you, gosh, that was a massive breakthrough moment, or that thing really changed how I looked at things?

Michelle: I, think, and it came up in the monthly momentum this week is, on how you wanna feel, like what success looks like. And so I don't know that it happened, one moment, but just like, at peace and calm when I opened the door, to come back in,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: only panic was 'cause the dogs were excited, right?

and, to get up in the morning and,

have the place look tidy, right? And to open a closet and, like, I'm proud of this, right? This reflects who I wanna be, right? and, and having more doesn't mean being,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: right? So yeah, so I think that... Was that in an... I think inevitably, it Early fall last year, I lost a little bit of momentum, I think with anything that happens after a period of time. But there again, just made it my business to get to a couple of success sessions, right? Like they're almost mini therapy sessions, right? Get to the success sessions to just see, just to know I wasn't alone and, to remind myself of, how far, that I had... it was better. And, and I'm in good shape

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: in a really good shape. But I'll continue on because I know it's easy to start sliding back, and there's always, there's always, stuff that can go and things that can be better organized and yeah.

Yep, yep

Ingrid: And do your family, because you've got a, quite a lot of people around you, do your family notice a difference in, in, in you or your house? Or has it been so gradual

Michelle: now it... 'cause it just, it's radically different.

and curiously enough, I, work with a, coach who said, sh- she can, s- see the difference in me, and it was something really odd. I've never been big into manifesting, like just kinda, kinda did this whatever. but when I was ready, when I was planning to move, among the things I made a list of, things that were, that I was gonna need, for the, new place, right?

S- something as basic as I, I needed a shower curtain for the second bath, and I needed a bathmat for the second bath, and I want, I wanted more mirrors, which is my, daughter, my sister-in-law thinks is hysterical. She's "Y- you think, you have adequate light. You do not need more mirrors and more lamps." but it is amazing how many things just, showed up. people just posted, I have a mirror." I, one, one mirror, which is phenomenal, I was down putting something in my storage unit, and one of the guys in the building was, like, rolling it by, and I'm like, "Is that going to the trash?" And he said, "Yes."

I said, "Oh, no, actually, it's gonna make a detour to the trash." but what my coach said is, I'm that's, just more positive, and it's just, it comes, right? So she's like "I don't think it's a coincidence that this stuff is happening to you,"

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: right? So it is, I've made r- like literally made room for it,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: yeah.

Ingrid: Oh my God. what a, cracking way to close this podcast.

Michelle: See you.

Ingrid: I've made s- I've made space,

Michelle: yeah

Ingrid: good things are coming my way and, what a blessing to be more positive,

about, about life. And I think that's one of the things that clutter really sits in people's minds, and heads, and hearts, and weighs down on them.

And once you start to let go of that clutter, suddenly things start to come your way that you never expected to come your way, right?

Michelle: That

Ingrid: Yeah.

Michelle: now that we're talking about it.

Ingrid: It's been absolutely a pleasure. So what would you suggest to people who y- who are also maybe feeling overwhelmed by their stuff or feeling overwhelmed at a house move? Is decluttering the key to it all, Michelle?

Michelle: I, do th- I think that the fact that I've been on the journey for an- a year and a half, right? I, as you guys said, built the muscle, right? got

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: looking at things, with a, is this, the emotions ba- is this my past or is this my present and my future? And that...

And, it takes time.

And for me,

knew, and this made the first round easier.

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: I'm not... And you guys say it, right? If in doubt, keep it,

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: it's like I'm gonna, if I can get rid of a certain amount of ti- stuff the first time, like I'll do it again, right? I'll

Ingrid: Yeah

Michelle: and then... And in fact, what I did this year, because I knew this was coming, is, the if in doubt, it. I put it in a separate bin, and then when I was moving, those were the first things that it's okay, I was in doubt, like I did again, It's like most, of them went, right?

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle: was really helpful. so d-

Ingrid: Your,

Michelle: the long game

Ingrid: Yeah, Your decluttering muscle has built over time, and now the decisions that you made sit well with you. Your gut feeling

Only earlier you were just unsure, so you thought, and indeed we do say, really against what a lot of other people say,

Michelle: Yeah

Ingrid: everybody says, "If in doubt, throw it out," and we actually say, "No, if in doubt, you need to keep it because you need to make sure."

And you have built up your decluttering muscle over time, so you're much surer about the decisions that you're making, and it shows, right?

Michelle: Yes.

Ingrid: Yeah. Amazing. thank you so much for sharing. Thank you. Thank you for being in our Inner Hub and being such a fantastic, member. And I think a lot of the other members think that you've got a lot of things, nailed now, so you're probably now in the, "We've got it all covered."

Michelle: It's been a life changer for me, so I really appreciate it. It's in the most unlikely way, right? But

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. thank you so much, Michelle.

Michelle: Ingrid

Ingrid: and on that bombshell, thank you so much, listeners. Are you feeling inspired by Michelle thinking, "Oh my gosh, I had no idea that you can actually do a first phase and a second phase, and I want to figure out what's important for me, what belongs in my current me and in my future and no longer in my past.

I wanna learn about this decluttering muscle." The Inner Hub is the place for you, and you're gonna get to hang out with Michelle. What's better than that? And our lovely other members in our community. So thank you for listening. Thank you for being here. We appreciate you, and, we'll see you at next week's episode