Episode 354 – Feeling in control when going through a divorce with Tamsin Caine

Many marriages sadly end in divorce and the circumstances are often deeply traumatic, messy and upsetting. And that’s before we even start to focus on the practicalities. In this podcast we welcome Tamsin Caine from Smart Divorce. While finances may be a primary concern during divorce, Tamsin believes divorce is about more than just money and works with her clients to create a lifestyle plan that aligns with their personal goals. We talk through what you need to know if you or a friend are going through a divorce.Divorce can be emotionally and financially devastating. This podcast with Tamsin Caine from Smart Divorce offers practical guidance and emotional support to anyone navigating the complexities of divorce, focusing on both financial and lifestyle planning for a fresh start.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
Speaker 1  00:00
Many marriages sadly end in divorce, and the circumstances around it are often deeply traumatic, messy and upsetting, and that's before we even start to focus on the practicalities. Today, on the podcast, we are welcoming Tamsin Caine from smart divorce, while finances may be a primary concern during divorce, Tamsin believes divorce is about more than just money, and works with her clients to create a lifestyle plan that aligns with their personal goals. We're going to talk through today. What You Need to Know If you or a friend or a family member are going through a divorce,

Speaker 2  00:41
you're listening to the declutter hub podcast bringing you tried and tested no nonsense, tips and advice from the leading experts in decluttering and organising your home. Now here's your host, Lesley Spellman.

Speaker 1  01:02
You Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Lesley. We're delighted you're here to join us as part of your decluttering journey. So whether you're brand new today or have been listening for ages, we want to say thank you so much for being here. It means so much to Ingrid and I that you turn up every week to listen to and support us while we talk all things decluttering and organising, we'd love to help more people with their quest for a clutter free home. And our podcast is a fantastic way for people to be inspired to take action. We have a favor to ask. If you like what you hear, be sure to hit the follow, subscribe or like button on your podcast player. Share us with your friends, or share your thoughts on the podcast by leaving a review. So welcome everybody to the declutter podcast, and welcome Tamsin. Thank you so much for being here. Well, thank you for inviting me. We were talking before we came on. So Tamsin and I. So Tamsin lives around the corner, basically in the next town, and when we were kind of researching somebody to come on the podcast, because people have been asking for a long time for someone to come on and talk about divorce. And I was like, I'm sure I know somebody local to me. Little bit of searching and Googling, I'm like, I know that lady, but how do I know it? We've just worked out that we used to network together, like 15 years ago, didn't we?

Speaker 3  02:17
We're dead. We're dead. Yeah, it's been a long time since we've caught up. So this is a lovely opportunity. Absolutely,

Speaker 1  02:25
absolutely. So, yeah, divorce. Not ideal, not not great, very messy, very hard for a lot of people can be really positive as well. You know, sometimes it's a positive thing, often it's a positive thing, actually, but there's a lot to get through, isn't there's a lot to sort out and get through, and that's where you step in and try and help your clients. So let's dive straight in terms in what, what are your thoughts on divorce generally, having worked in this field for decades, probably right?

Speaker 3  02:54
A long while, a long while. I think there's, there's a few things to think about. So I am a was a child of divorced parents, and my parents got divorced when I was about 12. I'm divorced myself, so I've been through it and seeing how it works from the personal perspective. And I work with divorce in clients, day in, day out. Now, smart divorce was set up in 2018 that was when I started specializing, but yeah, I've got, obviously, a background of experience from all different angles. Is it a positive or a negative? I think the most people once it's done, and it may be a couple of years after it's done, I think most people can start to see the positivism and see that actually, it really probably wasn't the right relationship for them. It's not everybody. But I would say most people end up in that situation, but it's getting to that place where you feel where you feel like that. And I think there's a huge amount of confusion about divorce. I think a lot of people think that they know what it's going to be like. They think they know what they've got to do. They listen to their friends down the pub, and they think their circumstances will be the same as theirs, but often they're not, and it's it is important to get some professional advice for yourself, rather than assuming that your situation is going to be exactly the same as it's one of your friends or or one of colleagues at work. So

Speaker 1  04:27
it's interesting why you're listening to it really, because it's kind of, it's definitely that scenario, it gets worse before it gets better, I'm sure. And in some ways, it's like clutter, and it kind of builds and builds to a point where it becomes a problem. Then you've got to go through this kind of messy middle situation where you start to sort everything out, and then you can see the light and look back and know that it was a positive change for you. So you talk there about, you know, people going down the pub and thinking that there's a one size fits all for divorce, and obviously nothing could be further than the truth, because everyone's circumstances are completely different. Right? So obviously, you think that hiring a lawyer in every situation is the right thing to do, or do you think it's only in certain situations that that's required?

Speaker 3  05:09
I think there are lots of different options when you're looking at divorce. So I'm not a divorced lawyer. I'm a divorced financial planner, just to make that very clear before we before we roll into the legal bit. I think it's always a good idea to have a consultation with the lawyer initially, and they should go through all the different options that are available for you. A lot of people think that divorce means that you need to end up in court, or you have to do it yourself, and there's no middle ground. And actually there's lots and lots and lots of middle ground. So there are companies who offer online solutions. There's a brilliant company called amicable, who who are the wealth coaches, who you can work with to figure out your finances. Using them. There are using solicitors to discuss between themselves, not necessarily ending up in the court situation. There's mediation, there are collaborative laws. There's so many different options about sorting your divorce out that doesn't necessarily mean the extremes of either you do it yourself on the kitchen table, or you end up in a court battle. So so many options that need to be considered. I think the other thing that does I should just mention, before we rattle off in it in one direction, is there are two main parts to divorce. One is the actual divorce itself, which is the severing and the ending of the contract of the partnership, if you like, and then there's the sort in the Finances section out. And those are two different things. So getting divorced, which most people don't understand, is not the same as severing your financial connection. So you need to do both bits. So just getting divorced doesn't end your financial connection to your ex spouse, and it all needs to be done together. Ideally, yeah,

Speaker 1  07:10
and that's what's difficult. I mean, before we go on, actually, Tamsin, obviously, we got listeners all up throughout the world who want to talk about it may well be different wherever you are in the principles that we'll be talking about today will be exactly the same. And you're right, you know. And the problem is that those two worlds I imagine, come together. So even though you're trying to split the finite, you've got the emotional sort of side of things, the actual divorce, the ending of the sort of marital relationship, then you've got the finances. The problem is that these two things clash heavily our thought, and one impacts the other so let's dive straight in then and go. Okay, so it may be a shock. It might be something that's been coming for a while, but that decision, that conversation happens, this is a thing that's going to happen between you and your partner. What should you do straight away, financially to make sure that you are in the right place to move this forward in a positive way.

Speaker 3  08:05
Okay, so I think the very first thing today is this is not a race. There isn't a rush, and actually, particularly if it's a shock, usually you find that one person is emotionally further ahead than the other. So one of you might have been thinking about it for quite some time. They've been getting their head around it. They've been thinking about what it's going to look like afterwards. If you're the person that's not in that position, you're going to need time. And what I quite often see is people racing to a solicitor, or racing to do something and to actually get things moving because they feel like that, that's something that they can try. They can control. Actually, you need to be in the best emotional state that you can possibly be in before you start making any decisions in terms of your divorce. So really, I would say, once it's happened, once the decision has been taken, probably actually do nothing for a good couple of weeks, other than potentially get some support. So maybe go and see a therapist or a counselor or a divorce coach and get some get yourself in a good emotional position, get yourself where you don't feel as angry, as betrayed, as if you're the person who's made the decision as guilty. Get yourself in a really good emotional thing before you start doing things. If you feel that because you need to be in control and you want to do something, start gathering your financial paperwork together. Okay, so I know this is, this is a decluttering type thing, but this is where, where you can you can come in as well. So what you want to do is only collect together your financial information so you can't. Can't access your excess financial information. I can't accept it. You're not allowed to have looked at it or provide it to anybody on separation. So what you what you're going to do is look for your stuff. So you're going to need for savings and bank accounts. You need 12 months statements, so no more than that. So you don't need to keep I went through my paperwork at one point, and I think I had something like 20 years worth of bank statements. You don't need anywhere near that. 12 months is is enough. If you've got online banking, if you can print them off, fantastic. If you can't print them off. Go and see your banks and get that process started. If you've not already got them, credit card statements, any investments that you've got, you just need the latest statement. If you've got mortgage, you need to contact the mortgage provider and request the redemption statement, and you can tell them it's for divorce purposes. Nothing's been decided. Asking for redemption statement doesn't mean that you've got to pay the mortgage off. I know a lot of people worry about that, but get that you can start getting house valuations. So you could get Estate Agents around. We usually suggest three and to get them round and give you an idea of what the value of the property is, pensions. So pensions very, very important and divorce, they're often the biggest or second biggest asset of a marriage. Do you need to contact your pension providers, all of your pension providers, and you want to ask them for something called A, C, E, V, which is a cash equivalent value, is tell them it's for divorce purposes, and then they'll provide you with all the information that that you need that's going to be required for exchanging when you get get a little bit further down the line, you to also look at any protection policies. So life insurance, critical illness cover, income protection, whether they're provided by your employer or whether you've got them personally, gather those things together. And also, one thing sometimes missed is requesting a state pension forecast, which you can do online. So if you Google state pension forecast, you can click on a button and it will tell you, takes you through the awful government gateway, which takes about 1000 years to get on, but you will get there eventually and get that information downloaded and where you stand in terms of estate pension. I think if I've covered everything, there any any second properties. I know quite a lot of people in in England, Wales, particularly, have second properties. If you got second properties, same thing with the mortgages, and obviously trying to get those valued as well. And then payslip, you'll need your last 12 months pay slips and your latest PC as well. So gather all that information together. I would put it in, put it online, put it in nice folders, in on, on your computer, so you've got everything nice and neatly and organised, so that when you are ready to to move and take the next step, everything's everything's all together, and you don't have to worry about it.

Speaker 1  13:19
You see, you know, even as you say that Tamsin, you know, I know to a lot of people in our communities who struggle a little bit to have to look after their paperwork, and the, you know, the kind of nice folders and everything, right? You know, a lot of people will be, it will be a little bit chaotic. So that will strike the fear of God into a lot of people. They're like, that's a lot. So all of those things. You know, it is a lot. And so you can't then look at your partner's things and so, but presumably, then you can look at joint so you that you do need to look at things that are joint. So you can't suddenly go, Well, I know my partner's got X amount of money in such a such a bank account. So that's not relevant at this moment. It's only the things that are in your name or in joint names, I need to gather, sort of be gathering evidence, and that's going to take quite some time to get that information together, isn't it? And then, of course, to sort of take out the things that you don't need, like longer than 12 months, and all that kind of stuff, and to start to start to gather into folders. So, you know, another great reason why to keep your paperwork under control is the right thing to do. But that's really interesting. A lot of people would panic as well. I think I just want to sort of step in at this point and go, you know, you you explained there, of course, you need 12 months worth of bank accounts, probably similar for credit cards and things like that.

Speaker 3  14:36
But the latest credit card statement, thankfully, don't

Speaker 1  14:40
know, okay, okay, okay, but a lot of people would get nervous to not have this is the reason why a lot of people feel that they would need printed bank statements. And so we're we say quite a lot. You know, if you are online, you can still get hold of that information. You can go to your bank get it printed off. You can probably print it off for most apps yourself. Anyway. Yeah. So, I mean, you can download it, then print it from there as a PDF. And so, you know, you don't need to keep the paper physical copies. You can get hold of that from your online system. A lot of people are nervous about moving to online for this kind of 12 month bank statement scenario. So, and of course, all this is done. This kind of assumes that you then, as an individual, have had some kind of input into the family finances, and often that's not the case in their families, right? And so we'll talk, can talk a little bit more about that then. Tamsin, how does it work when, if your partner has managed the finances and you've got no idea where to even think about getting these things, what do you do then? Okay,

Speaker 3  15:41
so you're you're only looking for things that are in your name that you know about. You can't be expected to disclose things that you don't know about. Now, you should hopefully know about the things that are in your name, although I have had clients who have had ISIS set up in their names that they don't know about, that they can't access, that they don't know passwords for, etc. And so then it's going to depend on how the situation is, what the relationship like between you, I work a lot with people who unfortunately are in controlling and coercive relationships, and asking their other half for information, for passwords, for login details, is almost impossible, and you've also got to think about your safety. So it very much depends on your circumstances. Now, if you know the if you know that you have an account with the state provider, you can contact them, give them your details. You should be able to access the information. You should be able to get password reset or something along those lines. If you don't know where, where anything is, if you don't know where any of your accounts are, if you know that, that you think you you've absolutely no idea where they are, then you can, you can just go through a solicitor, and they'll have to ask the other person to provide that disclosure. If you are named on things you should have, you should be able to see them on your credit file. So one way of getting information is to request your credit file through Experian or Equifax. You can do that online, and that should give you some information about where things are held. But these are the sort of things that we hope people's hands with that solicitors will help you with as well,

Speaker 1  17:40
right? Okay, that's interesting. So there are, there are ways, and if it you know, because I am thinking about that situation, you know, not all, not all, always in a controlling, coercive relationship, but sometimes where, you know, the partner just manages that kind of stuff, and always has. You know that we see that quite a lot when people pass away as well, and people are completely lost at that stage because they've never done it, so especially older generations and things like that, where it's not quite so much online, it's different. It's a little bit different, isn't it, when it's when it's all online, because it kind of comes to you and your email address for the most part, and but it's a little bit it's, it's tricky, and, you know, and all this while you're trying to then navigate, you know, trust issues, loss, grieving, you know, all of those kind of things that come along with going through the divorce process is hard, but basically, you know, I love what you said right at the beginning times in where you said, don't rush it, just take your time so there's no race against the clock that I think people think you're you know, particularly if it's been a difficult, messy split, that your partner's just going to empty your bank accounts of everything, and presumably that can be sorted out in principle later, through legals, if necessary, right? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Think that's the fear, right? Okay, let's pop to a break, and then in a moment, we're going to come back. We're going to talk a little bit more about stuff. So welcome back, everybody, and we're here talking to Tamsin Caine from smart divorce, all about what you need to know when you are going through a divorce. From a financial planning perspective, really, really important. And we know how important paid work is and to have all those things in order. So obviously, you know our advice to you is going to be, even if, regardless of whether you think you'll ever have to go through a divorce, getting your paperwork and your finances in order is always a good thing. But this is something, if you've got any inkling that this might be in your future, then definitely start to do that work now to make sure that you've got these passwords, that you've got these folders, you know, where you can get these things. So really helpful advice. Thank you. Tamsen. I want to talk a little bit now about your experience of splitting the stuff in the home. Have you had any any ex? Because obviously there are financial implications of the things in people's houses, as well as bank accounts and stuff like that. What's your experience of that?

Speaker 3  19:57
Oh, so this is a this is a trick. You want, and so they're called the stuff is called chattels. When we're in it going through divorce, it's called chattels. So anything that's worth over 500 pounds, and we're talking about worth rather than replacement value. So what's it worth now? So my iPhone probably cost an arm and a leg. Is it worth what I paid for? It absolutely not. If you Google it, it probably get one on eBay for a couple of 100 quid. So that doesn't need to go on. So you're talking about things that are worth more than 500 pounds. So it might be antique furniture, it might be paintings. It might be jewelry that you've been given. It might be your engagement ring, your wedding ring, those sorts of things. So those are the things that get taken into consideration on the the official form, which is called a for me. So the for me is court form, but lots of solicitors and financial planners and divorce coaches use it anyway, because it collects all the financial information altogether. So all the paperwork we were talking about collecting together before that's all going to get written up onto this form called the for me, so valuable stuff that's going to go on the for me that will be officially separated, not so valuable stuff, like your boy's own CDs and your lovely pictures on your walls behind you and your books and so on, those are going to be separated by you and your ex directly. That's never going to be done by a court. A court is not interested in who gets the telly, who gets the armchair, who gets that's that's going to need to be done by you. So people have a number of different ways of doing this. So if there are things that are really, really important to you in the house, I would focus on those things that have sentimental value that you inherited from other people, that you know you can't replace because they they have this sentimental value for you. I would negotiate on those things first and foremost, and then other things can can be divided between you as and when and at the end of the day, for the most part, things are just things, and they can be replaced. So it's it's the sense making sure that you negotiate to get the things that really mean something to you, that really sentimentally valuable to you, not things that are just going to annoy your other half because that that's a pointless argument. You're gonna have enough faffing about with arguing. But I think with a lot of things, you you can just let them go. It is just, you know, you called it stuff in the first place. It is just stuff, and for the most part, stuff can be replaced. Are you going to miss it if you've not seen it for a year? Do you know what? Probably not with with most things. Yeah, I think that's really

Speaker 1  23:03
good advice, actually, is to to don't sweat the small stuff, and to focus your attention on the things that are real, no brainer for you, and those would be sentimental items. So you've got your kind of more expensive items, your tussles, that you need to sort out, they need to be listed. Then next down the list of priorities is then going to be that sentimental stuff. And there are things that are going to be non negotiable for you, and things that are going to be non negotiable for your partner as well. And then you need to start worrying about the just what's left genotomy, which is probably a lot, and certainly in the in the communities that we're in, Tamsin, you know this, this stuff that can be replaced. Obviously, people assign a higher value for the for the most part, just because of the where we are in a decluttering memberships of stuff, then inverted commerce is very important to a lot of people and the emotions attached to it. But I think it's good to, just like you said, go down that hierarchy really, and go, that's where my energy needs to go first, and then we'll get to the other stuff later. And yeah, that's really, really useful. And from a financial perspective, or a kind of chattels perspective, I just wanted to get your opinion on other things that you need to know about. If there are children involved, is there anything that we need to think about separately? If children are involved in this, how does that all work, financially and stuff. So

Speaker 3  24:17
for children, courts are not massively keen when couples can't decide between the two of them how to divide the children's time, and they you can go to court to argue about who has the children when, but courts don't take massively kindly to it, and you are far better off if you possibly can, to try and navigate that that how do we share our time with the children? Custody in England and Wales certainly is not a thing. It's not custody doesn't exist. So it's not about one person having custody. It's about how the. Parents share the time with the children. How they share the care of the of the children? Where are they going to primarily live, or are they going to live between two houses, between the two of you equally? If they are going to live between you equally? How is that going to work? Are no clients who've got who have a one week on one week off situation. So they they do a full week, then they swap on a Sunday, and then they do a full week with the other parent, and then they swap again. They do it like that. Um, I've got people who have hugely complex Well, it's this Friday to Tuesday, then we change to Wednesday, then on the Friday. And it's it can get very, very complex, but it's about what it what works for you guys, it's what works for for the parents. It's what works for the children and how they are best going to come through this. Some parents, in the first instance, early on, this doesn't tend to last particularly long. Do something called bird nesting. So rather than the children moving from one house to another, the parents move from one house to another. So they might rent a property that they they both go and move into, or they might use the family home to bird nesting and then go and stay with their own parents or family member or a friend when it's not their time to be with the children at home. That doesn't tend to work long term, I would say, but it can certainly work in the first instance, to get everybody used to this. Mummy and Daddy are not living together anymore. Mummy and Daddy and Daddy, let's not be be wrong about that. But yeah, it it gets the children used to, used to they're not always going to be with, they're not going to be with both parents. It's going to be one or the other.

Speaker 1  26:52
Yeah. And I think you know, arguably, that's one of the, well, the most not arguably is the most important thing to get right, isn't it? And then the other things have to follow suit, really, because that's a non negotiable, again, really. So I just that, you know, it's so interesting for me. I mean, luckily, I've not gone through a divorce myself, but it's kind of like, you know, I just kind of, but you see it, you know, obviously it's all over the TV and all that kind of stuff. It's just this angst and this tension, isn't it, that causes all these problems, really. And so our rational head is like, that's the way we need to do it. We need to be sensitive about the children. We need to be sense about the finances and about the stuff and all that kind of stuff. But once these emotions, particularly if it's one person who's done wrong, which often is the case in the breakdown of a marriage, then it's just so complicated. So I think your advice to just take it slowly and to try and, you know, let your head rule things, rather than your heart, is such sensible advice. So thank you for that. So once we've done all of these things, you know, we talked about the beginning of the podcast, it's like a couple of years for a lot of people, and then they go, Oh, actually, this is the right thing. It wasn't the right relationship. We've managed to make it work. Kids are happy enough, you know, I've moved into my new house. I feel settled. What about a new lease of life? Tamsen, so what do you see this happening a lot? Do you see a lot of people coming out in a really positive frame of mind? Yeah,

Speaker 3  28:18
yeah. All the time, all the time, and I actually recorded a series for my podcast of people who've been through divorce and come out the other side and and we're in a really positive place. Because I felt like a lot of people think that it's the end of the world, and it really isn't. And you probably know you said before that it's often down to one person having done wrong.

28:43
I dispute that. Actually, yeah, no, I don't know

Speaker 1  28:47
every story, but you know, in in principle, if it's a cheap scenario, of course, that's

Speaker 4  28:53
what I was talking about recently. But, but sometimes there's there can be reasons. But, yeah, yeah, I get it.

Speaker 3  29:00
I tend to take one we tend to take one side. We tend to that was that and they're wrong. And we don't, we don't often know what else is happening under the bonnet and and you know, where there's been abuse, absolutely, it's, it's that, you know, yes, that's absolutely one person doing wrong. But I would say it's not always that that situation, but I think quite often you'll come out and it it gives you a sense of freedom. So I always say that the best thing about about being divorced is that you get to make all the decisions. But the worst thing about being divorced is that you have to make all the decisions. So it's it's two sides of the same coin, and sometimes having that freedom to be able to decide, you can plan your life to look however you want it, to look without compromise for somebody else, and you might have. Together with that person when you were very young, you know, in your early 20s, even in your late teens. And so now you're grown up, and your life looks different, you feel different, and you want to plan things in a different way. You can start to think about the life that you want to live. You know it may be that you haven't worked and you need to go back to work because you need to earn money. Well, what what do you want to do? What's going to inspire you? What's going to fill you with joy? What sort of work do you want to do? I've got numerous clients who wanted to do more traveling. I considering seriously setting up a camper van shop, because so many of my clients seem to want to buy camper vans and mobile homes and go off and travel in this country or in into Europe. So yeah, loads of people, I kind of liken it to a chrysalis. So when you've got a caterpillar goes into the chrysalis, I think the chrysalis has been divorced, and then after the divorce, you can gradually break through the chrysalis and become this butterfly and you and the privilege that I get is, quite often I work with my clients post divorce, and I get to see them become this beautiful butterfly and and learn to fly. And it's, it's an incredible thing to watch. You

Speaker 1  31:18
know, you're so right when you say that really, and it is, you know, for you or for I as a professional organiser, we typically get to see people at a rock bottom stage of their life, where they've called in help because they feel overwhelmed and incapable to do it and incapable of doing it on their own. And we get to see the upwards trajectory of people, as you say, becoming this butterfly. So we're both in a very similar position there Tamsin. It's so lovely to be able to be a part of that journey out of the kind of difficulty, the depth of despair, which is for so many people, really, whether that's clutter, overwhelming people, or whether that's a tricky split in a in a relationship that's broken down. So I think that's been super helpful actually, because I think it is, when you've never experienced it, it just feels like a lot. And you know, when you're in it, you'd be like, How on earth am I going to navigate this myself? You know, I mean, I don't. I might not know where things are. My paperwork might be all over the place. My partner's dealt with this, and I've just not done that. I've not had to, you know, there are so many things that make it so complicated. So, you know, to have somebody like you, Tam, who are doing this work to guide people along. You know, reach out for help. You don't have to do this on your own. Yes, you may need a divorce lawyer and but also, there are people that are going to help more with the practicalities of stuff, not just that kind of legal wrangling type side of things, but actually, you know, the positive side of things, which is, let's make sure that you get your finances in order. Let's make sure that you can emerge in a couple of years time down the line as a better person. So I think it's absolutely brilliant that people like you exist. Tamsin, let us talk about where people can find you. Can find

Speaker 3  33:01
me absolutely everywhere, because I'm I think the end place that I have got an account on Tiktok, but I've not mastered Tiktok yet, but yeah, you can find me at Tamsin Caine at LinkedIn, or you can find me on x, and we've got a smart divorce account there. We've got a smart divorce account on Instagram that we've put lots of information, and we've got podcasts called the Smart divorce podcast, which is available everywhere you listen to podcasts and is completely free of charge. And I think there are 125 episodes, so loads of information there to help you

Speaker 1  33:38
absolutely well. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today and sharing your information about divorce. I hope that's been helpful. This has but as I mentioned right at the beginning, this is something that people have been asking for for a long time, so it may not apply to everybody, but I think like every and every one of these podcasts, there's always something to learn, because there's always your friend, your family member, you know, there's always someone in your world going through something like this, so it's useful to understand what they're going through. So thank you so much, Tamsin, and we will see you all next week.

Speaker 2  34:11
Thanks so much for listening to the declutter hub podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode, and we'll see you next week
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Episode 413 – Clutter, CBT and Compassion with Dr Lee David

Episode 411 – When Creativity Breeds Clutter with Inner Hub member Lori

Episode 410 – 10 Things you Don’t Need this Summer

Episode 409 – Is TV Decluttering Helping or Harming?

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Episode 354 – Feeling in control when going through a divorce with Tamsin Caine

Episode 413 – Clutter, CBT and Compassion with Dr Lee David

Episode 411 – When Creativity Breeds Clutter with Inner Hub member Lori

Episode 410 – 10 Things you Don’t Need this Summer

Episode 409 – Is TV Decluttering Helping or Harming?

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