Episode 216 – Making the most of your digital calendar

Are you digital or paper based when it comes to your diary or calendar? In this episode we are going to talk about making the switch to digital and ensuring your digital calendar is working for you not against you.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Ingrid: Are you digital or paper based when it comes to your diary or calendar? In this episode, we are going to talk about making the switch to digital and ensuring your digital calendar is working for you and not against you.

[00:00:16] Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Lesley. If you're new to the Declutter Hub podcast, you're so welcome. What you'll find here is reality, empathy, and advice by the bucket load. And we just wanted to remind everyone about our show notes page that you can find on clutter hub.com/ 2 1 6. You can watch the podcast on YouTube, find all the useful links we talk about, and most importantly, you will find a subscribe button to follow our show so it pops into your notifications each Friday.

[00:00:52] Now, Lesley, I'm going to be honest, when you first suggested this topic, I was a little bit afraid, but then I remembered, ha ha, I am a digital person. 

[00:01:04] Lesley: I know, I mean, we could not have recorded this podcast sort of at the beginning of the podcast in episode 50 or 60 cause I have had to drag you kicking and screaming into the 21st century with your digital calendar.

[00:01:18] Now don't get me wrong, it's perfectly fine if you are. On a paper based system, but we are effectively here with our membership in our podcast. We're in a very technical company and so I would like to think that, that my partner in crime might be slightly more technical than using a paper diary. And so I have been on at her for quite some time to make the switch over and finally about a year ago she did it.

[00:01:43] So how is it going, Ingrid? 

[00:01:45] Ingrid: It is going really well. Uh, I'm happy to report. It was not an easy change. Now I am a reluctant person for change anyway. I'm going to help my, yes, yes, I will vouch for that. So, but if you're used to, so I'm a really paper kind of person. I've always been. You know, I, I'm, I now read a book on a Kindle, but I still fancy reading a normal book.

[00:02:15] Um, and I had a paper calendar. I had a paper diary. I just did it in a certain way that I did things. And when you and my husband both suggested, can we just please use a digital calendar, can you please make the switch? It took me a while and I had a failed attempt a couple of years ago because I just didn't commit to it, and I threw it all out again and I went.

[00:02:40] Firmly stayed in paper. And then last year I was like, okay, Ingrid, you need to, you need to get, you need to get into the game here. You need to get organised. And um, and I made the switch and I actually committed to it this time. And I did overlap for a while from doing digital and paper because I don't know, it just, you just, it.

[00:03:02] Going cold Turkey seemed a bit too far, but then at one point I was like, right, okay, this is not the, this whole two-way system is not going to, is not working for me. I need to now really, and actually since I've committed to it, I haven't looked back. It's been brilliant. Um, I'm still not a fan of looking in my calendar on my phone because I think just the, the screen is so small and my eyes are getting just.

[00:03:26] Worse by the day, I think, because I'm getting old. Um, so I do like to see an overview of things on my, on my, um, screen from my computer. But I know how to operate it. I know how to work it. I know I can look up things, I could put things in when I'm on the go and all of those things. And actually now I'm, I'm doing it.

[00:03:44] I'm like, I don't even know why I didn't do this 10 years before, but it's with all these things, you're so, I'm, I'm, you know, you, you got set in your ways with certain things and then you like to stick with stuff. You 

[00:03:56] Lesley: know, Ingrid, you said a very interesting word there, which is the most important thing when it comes to a digital calendar, which is commitment.

[00:04:02] It's really important that if you are going to move to a digital or if you are going to make a digital calendar work for you, then you have to commit to it, and you have to make sure that the information that you put in it, Is really good and really solid. because if you don't, if you kind of just half-heartedly do it, then it's never ever going to work.

[00:04:20] And then you're going to think it's rubbish and then you're going to go back to your paper-based system. Now Ingrid and I share screens quite a lot with the work that we do with the Declot hub. We're constantly flipping between each other and sharing screens, and so quite often I get to see her entering information in her digital calendar.

[00:04:35] And she is as meticulous as anything when it comes to the times and dates and colors and everything that she puts into it, and I think that's really, really important to do. So it's all about committing. Now. It's up to you. We're not here to say you absolutely need a digital calendar. You can absolutely run your life perfectly fine with a paper based calendar.

[00:04:57] But the more stuff that you've got going on, the more people who need to know where you are, a digital calendar can be super useful. And particularly if you are working in a kind of digital or technical world. because a lot of people will try and share things in a digital calendar way, won't they? Ingrid so, Yeah, so we wanted to talk a little bit about some administration, didn't we?

[00:05:20] And you know, this is all about how to make a digital calendar work for you. First of all, let's talk about what a digital calendar is and what it actually does, and what kinds of digital calendars that are. Ingrid. 

[00:05:31] Ingrid: Well, I've got a Google calendar because I've, our whole system at home is set up on Google with.

[00:05:36] Google mail and Google whatever drives and Google. So I've got a Google calendar so it made sense to stick with the same thing. Why would you suddenly go to something different? And the Google calendar works absolutely fine for me and um, that's what I use. I know you use something different, Lesley. Yeah, so 

[00:05:53] Lesley: I use ICAC because I'm very Apple based and so I use the ICAC products and that, what that means as well of course, is that I can import all the calendars from all the systems as well.

[00:06:03] So I can still have a Google calendar and import it into icac. IC will kind of amalgamate all those together and I'm pretty sure that Google will, but we're not here really to talk about the technicalities of each individual system cause we don't know each individual system. But we're here to talk about.

[00:06:19] In general terms, what kinds of things can you do with a digital calendar that are really going to enhance your life? 

[00:06:26] Ingrid: Yeah, I think first, and uh, you already kind of briefly mentioned it, I think you have to really be meticulous about dates and times. I mean, I. It all, you know, stands or falls with the inputs and, and that goes for every computer system.

[00:06:40] You know, if you input half information, half information comes out. It's as simple as that. So if you're going to use a digital calendar, and that's what I found out as well in the beginning, you're a bit like, oh, I let but just put it in. And now I'm like, okay, no, I need to have a beginning date. I need to have often end time in beginning time and end time.

[00:06:59] I need to block it in the right calendar. We'll talk about other calendars more, uh uh, later, but I really am like that. And also I now have birthdays in there. I block off times for when the kids are off school, so I kind of know what's going on. I put in all day events. I put in events over multiple days.

[00:07:20] So I don't have to retype everything I put in my kids' clubs on, on a returning schedule every week. Instead of having to type everything in individually, what I had to do with the paper calendar, you have to write everything in. Every week or every month. And with a digital, you just type it in once and then it comes back time and time again.

[00:07:42] But I think the input on the one time putting it in is important, and that's where you need to spend that extra 20 seconds or however long you need to make sure it's improperly. 

[00:07:53] Lesley: Yeah, and I think it's kinda evolving grid as well in terms of the, the, the naming conventions, let's call them, that you're going to use the labels, the titles that you're going to use, you know, so sometimes I will put, cause everyone's, we've got different views and I like to look at mine on, uh, a week view quite often.

[00:08:09] Sometimes I look at a month view. I'm not really on a day view kind of person. So sometimes, even though the time is. Three o'clock, and that specifically stated in my diary that it's three o'clock sometime. I will put a further thing in to say that it's coming at 3:00 PM three o'clock as well. So I might put 3:00 PM in the title just to remind me a second time.

[00:08:28] So Ev everybody's got their own different ways of doing it. Now, one of the things. Things that I do think is really important. So for example, for just to keep things in simple terms and to explain how things work from a, from a basic calendar perspective, and I'm talking about my own calendars now, obviously I've got my personal calendar.

[00:08:46] So I've got my home calendar, I've got my clutter fairy calendar, which is what I do, um, my one-to-one business up here in Manchester. And then I've got my Declutter Hub calendar, which is all of the things that Ingrid and I are committed to. And so, I need to make sure that when I'm putting things in those diaries, because sometimes if you're on the go and you're trying to do things on the go, it will default to certain things.

[00:09:08] It will default to, which is your default calendar. Is it the delo? Is it the Klut ferry? And sometimes if you're working on the go and working a little bit faster, sometimes it's easy to put things under the wrong category. And so every now and again, I will absolutely go and I'll, I'll take everything out else out of my diary so you can just switch things off.

[00:09:25] You don't take it out, you actually just switch calendars off and then it will only show you those things are declutter related, orlu related, or home related. And I'll make sure that things are in the right category. So, So I don't do that very often, but I probably do that once every sort of six to eight weeks just to make sure that nothing's gone awry.

[00:09:44] And the reason that I do that is because there are other people looking at some of these diaries and I need to make sure that I've got things in the right calories so they don't miss something. So for me, if I look at everything, I'll be like, it doesn't really matter whether it's got a, a green tag on it or a purple tag, because I'm seeing everything together.

[00:09:59] But other people who are sharing or looking or viewing my calendars need to have the right information. So it's really important to. To put into play some of that cross-referencing time, isn't it? And that sort of double checking time just to make sure that everything is in order. Yeah, 

[00:10:13] Ingrid: definitely. I mean, I, I, what happens to me sometimes is when I put in something for the family on the family calendar and I accidentally use my personal one or my organiser house one, and then my husband's like, I don't, I know nothing about this party that we're all going to.

[00:10:30] I'm like, oh, I'm sorry. It's wrong, wrong calendar. So I, I, you do have to cross check and, and kind of, uh, have a little look and I'm like you, Lesley. I like to see a week view so I can flip from week to week like I would normally probably would've done in my paper calendar as well. I like to see it per week.

[00:10:47] I very rarely go in on just a day. I like to see that overview, like what's happening this whole week, what's coming up over the weekend. I, I check my calendar several times. For days sometimes, you know, because when we're scheduling in things, when we've got podcast recording or we have a guest, or when we work together, I, I have always open and I can look at it so I can see it.

[00:11:11] So I don't miss a lot of things because I see it all the time. 

[00:11:16] Lesley: Yeah, definitely. I think it's important to have different views, so I'm like you. I like the overview on my sort of desktop, cause I've got a big screen, but on my phone it's exactly the same calendar cause it all syncs across, which is really nice.

[00:11:27] Yeah, it'll sync across all of your devices so you what? You put what I put on my computer at home will automatically show up. Within seconds on my phone, which is obviously very, very important that you've got that when you're out and about, that you've got that line of sight over what's going on. But I do use a day view that I scroll through on my phone and I'm, I'm concerned in that you are looking at month view on your phone.

[00:11:48] No, not month, uh, week at week, but you need to go onto day view. That's what I would do. And then scroll through and then it's easier to see. 

[00:11:55] Ingrid: Yeah, Jan said it as well, my husband, but I, I tried it and I didn't like it. 

[00:12:00] Lesley: But maybe that's something, maybe that's something because that's, because that I think it's too much to try and see that on your, on your, on a phone screen.

[00:12:07] But you can scroll down and obviously you're not doing, you don't need that overall view. You just need to, when you're out and about, you just need to go. Oh, let me check what's going on on the 20th of December, for example. Have a quick look or add something in. You know, you're not really true. 

[00:12:22] Ingrid: True. Maybe I should give that a go and try that again.

[00:12:26] Lesley: Definitely. Cause if you're saying it's too small for your screen, then you're never going to use it. So then, I think that's the thing is it sometimes we, we look at things and we think, oh, that's really awkward, or that's not worked properly. Half the time it's user error, so that would be me putting it under the wrong calendar or under the wrong day or something like that.

[00:12:43] So that's where this cross-checking and cross-referencing comes in. Or looking at things under the wrong view. And sometimes we don't even know that these things exist or that these kind of things are going to be right. You know, we don't know what we don't know. And it takes somebody to say to us, yeah, why don't you try things in a different way?

[00:12:59] That's what I do. That's what works for me. And everybody will have a preference in terms of the amount of information that they want to see on a screen. Um, people's eyesight comes into play and the way that people work comes into play. So it's really interesting to, um, How it all sort of fits together.

[00:13:16] And of course every calendar looks very different. 

[00:13:18] Ingrid: Yeah, yeah, definitely. Now, Lesley, another thing that's super handy with a digital calendar is that, you know, it it, you can put in alerts and notifications. I think I've got actually a standard thing that automatically it comes up at. 30 minutes before something happens, it comes up.

[00:13:34] So it's really, I think, handy, especially when you've got meetings or appointments you need to go to. But of course if you've got something, for example, you need to drive to the orthodontist and you know, oh, actually it's going to take me half an hour to drive there. You can actually move your notification an hour before, so you get alerted like, You're going to have to leave because there's no point in getting a notification when you already should have been halfway in the car there.

[00:14:02] Lesley: You see, this is where Apple is super clever because Apple will do that for you. So if you've put, if you've put an appointment somewhere in your diary that you need to be, it picks that up. It looks on your address book and it says if you want to get to such body's house by this time, you need to leave now.

[00:14:16] So Apple is super clever and goes like one step further in that kind of artificial intelligence type stuff I wanted to talk about when we talk about alerts and notifications, I was actually waiting. Working with a client yesterday and it was a client, I'm trying to set him up. So this is somebody who is, is recently had a A D H D diagnosis and on top of that is recently changed up the way that he does his job.

[00:14:37] So he is gone from kind of is a kind of project manager driving a van rounds, managing projects on houses and things like that. And he's become more office based and so wants to get himself set up. So everything's quite chaotic at the moment. We we're working through sort of thousands and thousands of emails.

[00:14:54] And one of the things that he didn't have was a digital calendar. And so what, a bit, what he had been doing because of his A D H D because he had been forgetting things. What quite a classic thing with people who do, do, um, live with A D H D is that they, time was his by and they're not aware of time as much in quite often missed appointments, and so he literally had 30 or 40 alarms on his phone for all different times of the day.

[00:15:17] And, and the problem is with having loads and loads of alarms. Whilst I can completely understand the rationale behind that, You'll stop to hear those. You'll stop hearing those alarms. Cause there's too many of them. So I switched him over yesterday into a simple digital calendar and set up alerts and notifications that are going to work for him.

[00:15:35] And so I think that's the kind of thing is using a system and getting it to work for you rather than against you. And so that's where an alarm, although it kind of does the same thing, it makes a sound at a certain time. It's. It is a different thing to have it in a calendar cause it's much more managed and much more sort of straightforward I think, isn't it?

[00:15:53] So alerts and notifications are really useful and you can set it up to, if, you know, depending on what you are, like an hour before, 24 hours before, five minutes before at the time of the event. You know, you can have recurring reminders and so it's really sophisticated in terms of the types of things that it can do.

[00:16:10] So if you struggle with time management, a digital calendar is really super useful for you as well from that perspective. 

[00:16:16] Ingrid: Yes, Lesley, you're absolutely right. So let's have a break because we're like doing lots of information here, especially if people are still on paper calendars. They're probably going what?

[00:16:26] Sharing? Alerts. Notifications. Oh my goodness. It all sounds a little bit much. Let's have a break, and after a break we're going to talk more about sharing calendars.

[00:16:37] Hi everyone. Welcome back to this podcast all about making your digital calendar working for you. And before the break we talked about. What the difference are between paper calendars and digital calendars and all of the admin that's involved with getting a digital calendar to work for you.

[00:16:56] But now we want to take it a step further and talk about sharing calendars. 

[00:17:02] Lesley: There's a lot of information, Ingrid, that we share, and a lot of pe, a lot of things will be going right over people's heads. But I think the important thing is for us to really think about what, why would you get a digital calendar?

[00:17:11] What are the benefits of having a digital calendar? And I think, you know, We know that they're great once you put the right information into them, but one of the really huge benefits of a digital calendar is that you can share them. You can share them with your family, you can share them with your work colleagues.

[00:17:28] You can share Zoom links and all that kind of stuff. And you can also set up calendars to share with lots of people. So here at the Declutter Hub for our members, when we're running a challenge, we have a shared calendar so that everybody has got information and they can import that into their own calendar.

[00:17:44] So there's lots of different ways that you can share a calendar. And what that means is that different people can add to that calendar and everybody can see the same thing and everyone can, people don't need to go, oh, just let me just double check with my husband, whether or not we're free that weekend.

[00:17:58] Because you can go in the day and you can see for yourself. And so things like that are super, super useful. And one of the biggest benefits of having a digital calendar out the Ingrid. 

[00:18:07] Ingrid: Yeah, I think so as well. And I think as well now, my kids are into their teens. You know, they're, they're, they're in the, when they're little, you decide everything for them.

[00:18:17] But now when they're getting into their teenagers and they're, and they've got their own calendar, we've got a family calendar. Where they can see, oh, okay, we're doing something here with all of us and this is what's happening. Or we've got, we're going out for a meal, or we've got a zoom call with grandma, or whatever it is because it's in the family calendar.

[00:18:35] And I think that really helps them also to understand more the whole idea of time and days and planning and getting them involved in what they need to do and that they need to put it in the calendar and when their, when their clubs are and all of that. I think it's really. I, I, I, I'm, I'm, I'm a con. I'm a convert.

[00:18:54] I'm a convert 

[00:18:55] Lesley: now. And so your kids completely on board with the shared calendar idea then? 

[00:19:00] Ingrid: Yes. So we, but we all say to them, you need to like, what are we doing? Look in the calendar because it's happening there. It's, it's in there. If they plan their own things, I don't think yet, but we are really trying to get them onto the whole family calendar 

[00:19:13] Lesley: idea.

[00:19:13] That's really interesting, Ingrid. Cause when I was talking about a shared sort of family calendar, I'm must admit, when I tried to get my kids on board, they were a bit like, I don't really want to do that. I don't really want to do a digital calendar. And what I kind of realized over the years is that they're not really at that stage where they need a digital calendar.

[00:19:30] They just kind of go to school, go to college, you know, go to their after school clubs, and then largely either do things off the cuff, a little bit on an ad hoc basis or. We tell them what they need to be do and where they need to be. Yeah. And so I don't think they're quite as meticulous about it. And I think it happens once they go in, once people go into the workplace.

[00:19:49] Yeah. So for me, our family calendar is more for me and my husbands we're the ones who use that. So I think it's probably at that adult level that a shared calendar's really going to work. 

[00:19:58] Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean I think they mainly now look, we kind of, we try to kind of go look and the calendar looks to kind of get them on board a little bit, but I don't think anyone has ever just put in something from themselves.

[00:20:10] No, 

[00:20:11] Lesley: exactly. So you might say it, but they'll still bring you up and go, yeah, what we doing on Saturday? We're doing everything I can do. Yeah. Something when you are supposed to be doing something as a family also. Very annoying. Exactly. Um, I think that, I mean, other things that you can do as well, so I have probably got about.

[00:20:28] 12 or 13 calendars that I am, have got myself or I'm subscribed to. So I subscribe to other organisations, um, calendars just so you can subscribe to the Decla Club membership or whatever. Um, different, um, associations that we are in. I've also got calendars of all the people that work for me. And I want to look at those when I want to look at them.

[00:20:49] So I don't want those to appear in my calendar all the time because that's their calendar. It's not mine. But every now and again, it's good for me to go, oh, I wonder what Bev's doing today, or, I wonder what Victoria's doing today, or whatever. And so it's important to know that you can switch calendars off as well.

[00:21:05] Another great example of that is Manchester City, where my husband is an avid. Uh, football fan. We've got the, the games, the seasons, we subscribe to that calendar. So I do want to look at it, but I don't want all of the city fixtures in my calendar all the time, but I do sometimes when I'm planning something, whether or not he's going to be at the football.

[00:21:23] And so you've got the ability to switch calendars. On and off. And I think that's very important that you're not overwhelmed with the amount of information that you've got in there. You know, you need to keep it so that you can see exactly what you need to see and get the highlights, don't you, Ingrid?

[00:21:38] Ingrid: Same for me. I've given each, I've, I've got about, I think five or six calendars that I have, and each calendar has got its own color. So for organiser House, I've got Blue and the Declutter hub is purple and my family is green and, and the declutter hub. Main calendar for the members is red. So I have them all on and I can see, oh, okay, that's what's happening there with whom.

[00:21:59] But I can switch them on and off. Individual. I I, it's brilliant. Yeah. 

[00:22:05] Lesley: Yeah, exactly. So I think we can safely say, Ingrid, that you are a convert to a digital calendar. And if ever there was anybody that was going to be super reluctant, it 

[00:22:16] Ingrid: is you, you are it. I am, I am. I know. I, I was like, I don't want to do this, and why cannot I not stick with paper?

[00:22:25] And I just cross it out from my diary and I can't even read anymore what I'd written under all the scribbles. And now it's like, wow, Ingrid, you should have gotten on board with this ages ago. But you know, that's one of the things, sometimes she just don't want to do something and then afterwards she realized, I should have been on board with this much sooner.

[00:22:46] Lesley: Yeah, exactly. So I think, you know, it's not for everybody and it might not be needed. So if you are a little bit later in life, if you've retired already, if your life is fairly simple, just you and your partner at home, you know, you might not need a digital calendar, you might not need to be sharing things left, right, and center.

[00:23:03] But if you're a little bit younger and have been like, Actually, you know, I, I do miss things. I do need alerts to tell me what to be. I would, I feel like my life is quite chaotic and I would, I would feel better if I had a better handle on what was going on. Yeah. Embrace a digital calendar, it's going to take a little bit of setting up.

[00:23:22] You know, you do need to, as we said right at the beginning, be meticulous about the kind of information that you are entering, and you need to commit to it. So there's no point in being half-hearted about it. You have to make sure, oh, that needs to go on my calendar, that needs to go on my calendar, and then it will really work for you.

[00:23:37] Quite often, a lot of people think it's the calendar that's rubbish when it's actually the people that are putting the information in that are rubbish, well not rubbish, but that are, you know, kind of struggling to get that bit of it right. So I am a converter. I think it's a fantastic thing if you are already working in quite a, a, a digital, um, environment.

[00:23:57] If you use your phone a lot, I think it can be a fantastic thing to have. And everything is on that phone these days, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, my advice would be if you do want to make that switchover from paper based into digital, try and run the two concurrently for a while, just so you feel comfortable with that.

[00:24:14] You can't really go cold Turkey because you need to trust the system. You need to trust yourself to work the system, but do give yourself a date where you go, okay, I feel confident, confident enough with that, but from this day onwards, I'm actually just going to switch 

[00:24:29] Ingrid: over. Yeah, and I think as well, Lesley, what I found out is that.

[00:24:33] In the beginning, for example, when you go to the dentist or the doctor or the ortho or the hairdressers, they give you, they gave you a P paper card, right? And I would go, oh, thank you. Put it in my phone to then put it in later. But now, because you get more and more savvy and you get more and more quicker, I now, I'm even at the desk when I'm at the hairdressers, I'm like, Yeah, when is it?

[00:24:54] Okay, boom. I'm going to, I'm putting it in straight away. Don't even give me the paper thing, because it's one less thing to then look after and discard and recycle and all of that so you get quicker. But in the beginning I was like, yes, gimme the paper so I can take my time to put it in properly. But, Like everything.

[00:25:12] The more you work a system, the better you understand it and you're so right, Lesley. I mean, there's still so many features that I probably don't use, don't even know exist. Four, 16 year old probably can tell me lots of stuff that I don't even know is possible. But hey ho, it works for me. And over time you start to figure out more and more and you start to use the systems even better.

[00:25:35] And I think we were talking about it this morning, weren't we, before we even pressed record? We've got so many digital things that we use, we need to make sure that we use them all at its optimum, but. There's so much possible now with everything you, you can't possibly know everything that's possible.

[00:25:51] But of course we need to try and get as much out of every digital thing as we can. And the same goes for a calendar, 

[00:25:58] Lesley: but I think people are a little bit nervous about it, Ingrid, and I think that the thing to remember is everything is only a Google search away. So there's lots of really clever people who.

[00:26:09] Do YouTube tutorials about how to set up an ICA or how to set up a Google Calendar. So don't be scared to just, honestly, if something pops into your head, which is, I really wish that I knew how to get a shared calendar. Just pop into Google how to get a shared calendar on Gmail and it will pop up and you will get 10 options of people telling you how to do that.

[00:26:31] Yeah, and I think get yourself into that search mode and people will, The search thing. Sometimes people think they've got to be very clever about how to search, but normally Google searches is simply the way that you're thinking about it. Put that in and it'll come up and it'll pop up and you'll, you'll, um, know how 

[00:26:48] Ingrid: to do it.

[00:26:49] Point well made Lesley. So listeners, are you brave enough? Has this podcast made you realize? Yes. I'm like, Ingrid, I'm a paper girl, but I need to make the switch too, and I want to go to a digital calendar. We would love to know. Tell us in the comments in our show notes, go to declutter.com/ 2 1 6 and let us know in the comments if you're going to make the switch.

[00:27:16] Or maybe you've just switched, uh, swapped calendars and you're like, I want to share an update on how it's going. Tell us, we would love to read your comments. Next week we are going to talk about the 10 things to shrink your laundry pile. So we're going to go from digital, back to laundry. We can't wait to see you there.

[00:27:36] Thanks so much for listening and we hope to see you soon.
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