A graphic of a table and shelves on the wall with chaotic, disorganised recipe books
Episode 167 – How To Organise and Declutter Recipes

Episode 396 – Why Resilience and Decluttering go hand in hand with Lucy Wooldridge
Episode 395 – Don’t Fade by February – Keep Your Decluttering Momentum High
Recipe books are a big problem for a lot of people. If you’re struggling for space and have tons of recipe books, then this is the podcast for you.
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Transcript of this podcast episode
[00:00:00] Ingrid: Recipe books are a big problem for a lot of people. If you're struggling for space and have tons of recipe books, then this is the podcast for you.

[00:00:10] Now, Lesley, I'm afraid this podcast is going to make me incredibly hungry because we're going to talk about recipes and food and it's December.

[00:00:20] So all we can think about is food and eating and It's all about cooking. And so if you're planning an elaborate meal and you're thinking about recipes at the moment. This is the perfect podcast, 

[00:00:33] Lesley: isn't it? I know, as long as you don't get hangry, that's the main thing. Hungry, we can cope with. Hangry, Ingrid, we cannot cope with, that's for sure.

[00:00:43] So, yes, recipe books. Now, can you believe we've got all the way through to episode 168? 

[00:00:51] Ingrid: Seven! This is episode 67, yeah! 

[00:00:55] Lesley: Seven. And without talking about recipe books, I just can't believe it because this is, this has been well requested, hasn't it? I'm sure we must have spoken about recipe books somewhere, but I don't think we've devoted an entire podcast to it.

[00:01:07] So it's time to delve deep into recipe books and recipes in general. Now, before we get started, let's talk about the emotions and habits surrounding recipes. And let me tell you, they are big, aren't they? And they are. Strong angry, the emotions and habits. We all love our recipe books. Well, some of us do, if you're a good cook, that is, which I am not.

[00:01:28] Um, but those that are love their recipe books and are very, very loathe to give them up and you have to drag recipe books, kicking and screaming from people's cupboards, don't you, Ingrid? 

[00:01:39] Ingrid: Well, not only that, Lesley, I think also people who are not very good cooks, but aspire to be very good cooks have all these recipe books lined up.

[00:01:50] I mean. Love a Jamie Oliver, but how many Jamie Oliver cookbooks can a person own? I've seen his whole collection in people's houses, and it's just That's a thing that people find very, very hard to declutter. Maybe because they're so pretty. They've got such pretty images, most of them. 

[00:02:09] Lesley: Who knows? No, you're right.

[00:02:10] And I think the interesting thing, you know, you talk about Jamie Oliver. I think he's worldwide. He surely is worldwide, isn't Jamie Oliver? I think so. I think he's like one of the richest TV chefs like ever, isn't he? Just me. But anyway, just in case you don't know who Jamie Oliver is, he's a British TV chef that's made loads of money by.

[00:02:28] Um, restaurants in the first instance. He started when he was like in his 20s, didn't he? And then he's now probably definitely approaching his 50s, if not 50. Now I reckon he's like 47, 48, something like that. And he was on a mission for school meals in this country, for more healthier school meals. He's done loads and loads of campaigning, but he's also guises.

[00:02:52] don't they? So 15 minutes to cook your dinner, 30 minutes to cook, all different types of ones. And I think it's fair to say. That you do find one that you connect with, don't you? And then you go to that over and over. So whether it's a 15 minute one, a 30 minute one, a how to cook an elaborate one, whatever it is, whatever your thing is, however you like to cook, you're going to find your thing.

[00:03:15] And it's about the other ones that are not quite our thing, that don't quite gel. And the Jamie Oliver one, talk about that. There was one that was... 15 minutes, or, I can't remember what it was, but it used, it kind of didn't do it in a standard recipe format. It kind of like jumped from one, from putting to starter to, and it was just all like, Ooh, I, I need it in my standard way.

[00:03:38] You know, like, here's the ingredients, here's the method methodology, and this is what it should look like at the end. And so when it, when it detracts from the norm for me, that's when I'm like, that's not really gonna work for me. How about you? 

[00:03:49] Ingrid: Um, I, I, I don't actually think I own a Jamie Oliver. We do both really like cooking.

[00:03:56] Um, as maybe some of the listeners know, I actually, actually did a hotel education. So I should know a little bit about cooking. But actually, we don't have a massive amount of recipe books that we use. But I think for me, they're so attractive. And I think that's why so many people have them. And especially the Jamie Oliver ones, they're beautiful paper.

[00:04:16] They've got beautiful images. Uh, it's really feels modern. It feels cool. So what's not to like about a beautiful recipe book. 

[00:04:26] Lesley: I know. We have spoken quite a lot about Jamie Oliver. Other, other chefs are out there. 

[00:04:32] Ingrid: I'm like thinking now, who? 

[00:04:36] Lesley: I know. I mean, I love Gordon Ramsay actually. So I do love Gordon Ramsay books.

[00:04:39] I quite like, I quite like him as a character. I know that he's very rude to people, but I do quite like him as a character. I think he does a lot of good. So, um, And 

[00:04:45] Ingrid: of course, and of course, don't forget Mary Berry with all her beautiful cakes. Oh. I mean, I think we actually have a Mary Berry book in this house.

[00:04:55] I can't remember now, but yes, but yeah, 

[00:04:58] Lesley: we've already spoken about Mary Berry. We're not allowed to make cakes because I'm constantly on a diet and have been since I was 22. So cake baking is not part of my world. I mean, not that I haven't eaten the cakes. I just think that if I don't make cakes and I'm not going to eat cakes and biscuits somehow, which is a complete lie and has never happened.

[00:05:18] But yeah, there are not many baking books. in this house. So, but I actually don't have that many cookery books. Now I say that I don't like to cook. Now I don't mind it, but it's not something that I love. You know, I'm not really bad at it. I can kind of cook various things and I do 

[00:05:34] Ingrid: cook. You can, you can.

[00:05:35] I've enjoyed a couple of meals in your house and I've not been disappointed so far. You can cook. 

[00:05:41] Lesley: But if I can get away with cooking in any way, shape or form, whether it's going to a restaurant, getting a takeaway, going out, getting stuff in, whatever, I will avoid it like the plague. Let me tell you. 

[00:05:54] Ingrid: Oh my gosh.

[00:05:55] You do crack me up. Well, we have, we had a lot of cookbooks in this house over time. We've thinned them out. We, and we now have the favorites still here in this house. And. Yeah. It's not something that we easily grab also. And I must say this because the cookbooks are actually not in my kitchen. I have not until this day found a perfect place for cookbooks in my kitchen.

[00:06:19] Now, to be honest, I don't know if actually, if they were in my kitchen, if I actually would use them more, that's a whole other debate, I think, but I think we're completely going off track here, but it's very interesting, isn't it? We all have so many different. Views on cookbooks and what we think is important, but I can tell you one thing Lesley dirty cookbooks Are the ones that are being used if there's dirt on them We know it's a favorite and that's the one you can't declutter Well, because normally everything we declutter is we've used it.

[00:06:53] We've loved it. It's done its time It's it's had his cost per wear With cookbooks, it's completely a reverse psychology. The ones that are the dirtiest we want to keep because we actually use them the whole time. That's 

[00:07:06] Lesley: interesting. I'm a very messy cook, actually, are you? I'm a really messy cook. Like, I fall short in so many ways as a professional organiser.

[00:07:14] You'd think I would be like... Tidy as you go. Off we go. When it comes to cooking, I'm just like everything out all over. I do tidy it all up at the end, but I'm not one of those people who puts things away as I go. I kind of try to, and sometimes I do, but in general, it's kind of a little bit of a mess when I'm cooking.

[00:07:29] I am 

[00:07:30] Ingrid: so not surprised that you're saying this because I can, like how, how, how I know you as your personality. I knew you were going to be a messy cook.

[00:07:43] Lesley: I know, I don't know. I think cooking just eludes me. Anyway, so the bottom line is what we're trying to talk about is that people have different personalities when it comes to recipes and cooking and what you choose to do and how you choose to do that. And so, it's not really about, we're not actually talking about whether we tied up the kitchen while we're cooking here but I just thought I'd throw that in there, just for a little bit of an aside.

[00:08:03] What we're talking about is recipe books, recipes, cookery books and how we do, how we work with those in our house. Why we have so many of them often and what we do and how things have changed. So we're talking about emotions and habits, really. And you alluded to the fact at the beginning, Ingrid, that a lot of people are quite aspirational when it comes to cooking.

[00:08:20] So people, you have to look at realism, don't you? You have to be realistic. Okay. Is it because I want to be like that? Is it because I want to bake? Is it because I want to cook a healthy meal? Whatever that recipe book represents, and recipe books represent lots of different things, don't they? Vegan, diet, baking, quick, whatever that might be.

[00:08:42] Is it because I aspire to be that or am I actually like that? And so that's very, very important. Now we're not saying if you fancy being cooking healthy. And you're not doing it at the moment, chuck everything out, that's not what we're saying, but we're saying there needs to be a point of realism where you say, right, I need to be honest here, particularly if those cookery books are taken over.

[00:09:02] And in our experience, cookery books do have a habit of taking a lot of space up in people's houses, and are very seldom used. Sometimes, not always, sometimes, and only you know where you fit into that, um, into whether you fit into that category or not. So really, really be realistic about what you're doing.

[00:09:19] Are you keeping cookery books because you want to be a certain way? Or because you are a certain way. Very, very important, isn't it, Ingrid? 

[00:09:27] Ingrid: Yeah, definitely. And we see shelves and shelves in people's houses, don't we? And it can be, Oh, I bought that cooker brick while I was travelling, or when I were on honeymoon, and it represents that area.

[00:09:39] And it's like, have you ever actually cooked something from this book? No. So then I think it's being realistic about are we actually going to do this or has it been cluttering up your house for far too long and now it's time to let it go. 

[00:09:55] Lesley: Yeah and I think that some people as well talk about realism.

[00:09:58] It's not just about. being aspirational. It's also about going backwards in time as well, isn't it? And saying, has your life shifted? Has it changed completely? So, for example, gave that example of veganism or vegetarianism, a really easy example to understand, you know, if you're now vegan or vegetarian or gluten free or whatever that might be, there's no point in you keeping loads of recipe book in your house.

[00:10:22] If there's no one in your house that's eating meat anymore eating fish and so something sometimes it's about lifestyle changes as well as the Ingrid rather than just wanting to be a certain way. So really evaluate how your lifestyle has changed. It might not even be that you've changed in the way that you eat it might be that your family has changed and so you might have lots of recipe books about family cooking and now you're living on your own, for example, things like that.

[00:10:46] Come into play as well. And we see a lot of the past, don't we? In recipe books, a lot of the past and a lot of the future quite often in recipe book collections, don't we? 

[00:10:56] Ingrid: Yes. Or Lesley, we find a cooking for toddlers book while the kids are like 14 and 15. It's like creating meals for toddlers, how to get a large plate of things in front of him.

[00:11:08] And it's like, Oh, my kids are like 14 and 15. So that's what we see as well. 

[00:11:15] Lesley: And I think it's very hard. You know, we've talked before about books and the fact that people view certain things in their homes as collections, don't they? And recipe books forms one of those. It's like, don't touch my recipe books because they are my beloved recipe books, i.

[00:11:31] e. a collection of. So you need to look at those books individually, there will undoubtedly be some that you're ready to let go off, you know, the no brainer ones like Ingrid has mentioned like the toddler book when your kids are 17, you know those kind of things are no brainers. So you need to allow yourself time to break up that collection into individual components.

[00:11:52] And when you do that, then there will certainly be scope for donating some. 

[00:11:57] Ingrid: Oh, yes. Yes. Uh, I've recently made sure that one of my clients, I had that, that bookshelf with recipe books was, is, was in my eye for quite a long time. And she was like, no, I do it another time. We'll do it another time. And then she finally recently said, okay, you really want to do the shelf though.

[00:12:15] I was like, yes. She's like, Oh, I'm not sure because she loves cooking is an excellent cook, actually uses a lot of her cookbooks, but we still managed to get two books, two bags full of books out of her recipe books, because we threw a bit of realism in there and we were like, okay, let's have, let's say, let's have a go through.

[00:12:35] Let's go through all of them and have a look. And she's like, wow. Yeah, you're right. We need to let some of these go. Yeah, 

[00:12:42] Lesley: and another thing that I want to talk about as well is that sentimental, sentimentality comes into play doesn't it when it's when we're to do cookery books as well because we inherit.

[00:12:51] Recipe books along the way as well from our parents, our grandparents from Ingrid's already mentioned when we've been on a, on a trip. And so sometimes those form part of our sentimental items, but we have to make a decision whether we want to, where do we want to give the space we want to give the space to practical items, or do you want to give the space to sentimental items because if you've got a finite shelf for cookery books, which many people do particularly if you're keeping them in your kitchen, there's only so much space that you can give to cookery books.

[00:13:20] Are you willing then to give 10 books worth of space to sentimental books from, you know, Mrs. Beeton that your great grandmother had that's kind of falling apart at the seams and actually wouldn't cook in that way anymore because it's sentimental. So you really need to make that distinction between what's a practical book that you're going to use and what's a sentimental book because that sentimental book might then go somewhere else with some of your other sentimental books that you're keeping.

[00:13:44] So think about that too. Loads of emotions and habits again with recipe books, aren't there Ingrid? Definitely.

[00:13:51] Ingrid: Hi everyone. Welcome back. And now before the break, we talked about recipe books. But there is lots and lots of loose recipes out there as well that we pull from magazines. We have got these little carts in the, in the supermarkets with little recipes that you can create.

[00:14:10] People give us things that, uh, from something that they've seen somewhere, or we order something and they give us a recipe. Lots of clutter to deal 

[00:14:19] Lesley: with, Lesley. Yeah. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that many, maybe like 80 percent of those recipes will never ever get looked at. Is that, are you, are you on my limb with me?

[00:14:32] Yeah, 

[00:14:33] Ingrid: yeah, yeah. I'm out on a limb with you. Yeah, for sure. Maybe even, I would say maybe even more, 

[00:14:38] Lesley: Lesley. I know that's all that that's, that's the reality of what that looks like, because if you like stuff and you've gathered clutter along the way, you also like information. And so we gather information in the same way that we do stuff.

[00:14:50] And so, in our experience when there is never a kind of everybody is like that, but if that might if that resonates with you like oh yeah I'm that person I'm always ripping things out of magazines, because it looks so nice. They're doing their job in magazines, they're doing their job by making this thing look amazing and you're like, Totally want that amazingness in my life too.

[00:15:11] So I'm going to rip that out of the magazine or even worse. I'm going to keep the whole magazine because it's got this nice recipe in it. But it's, what do you do with that? How do you get that from a ripped out piece of paper out of a magazine to an actual meal on the table? And that's the bit that doesn't happen, isn't it?

[00:15:27] It's, it's, it's, how do you create that process? That means that that actually is going to be used. Now, some people absolutely do, you know, there are people who are like, yep. Love that. Going to make that for dinner tomorrow. Do you know what I mean? Fantastic. And that's the best way to do it. And then keep it and say, that was lovely.

[00:15:41] That was not lovely. And put it in some kind of folder. Are you a big fan of that Ingrid? So keeping, so taking something out, trying it out, seeing whether you like it and then keeping it, what do you think? 

[00:15:52] Ingrid: Well, I'm not a person who does that, but just because I hardly read magazines. But if I would say, if this is something that you do.

[00:16:02] Then indeed immediately put it that week on the meal plan to try it out. Don't you like immediately out it goes this recipe. If you're like, wow, this was amazing. I can see ourselves eating this another five, 10, 20, a hundred times. Then I would say have a system. For these loose recipes, you then need to have some sort of folder, container, box file, lever arch file with plastic folders, whatever it is, there needs to be a system.

[00:16:30] Because what you don't want is this recipe to end up stuck somewhere between another recipe book or loose somewhere and then it gets crumpled, it gets dirty, and then you can't see it. So if this is something that you do, Make sure there's a system and of course, in that folder, you need to start thinking about then categorizing, maybe put the desserts together and the soups together and the mains together, or do it by kitchen or however you think.

[00:16:56] And it makes sense to you. But if you're just gathering recipes for the sake of gathering recipes, then it's I think the time to ask yourself the question, why am I doing this? And what am I doing with this information? Why do I feel this enormous need to pull this out? Well, it's then another job on my to do list that I feel guilty that I'm never going to do.

[00:17:19] I 

[00:17:19] Lesley: know we all want to change, don't we? I think the thing is, we get bored and we want that change, but do we do that change is the question, isn't it? Now you spoke there about my, um, kind of non favorite, my least favorite thing, which is plastic surgery. Folders in lever arch files. And so I feel like we need to address this, don't we?

[00:17:39] So this is now anybody who's listened to our podcast for a while knows how much I loathe poly pockets, don't I Ingrid? Now a poly pocket for those who don't know is one of those plastic wallets. That's got a little punch holes in it. So you can. Slot a piece of paper into it and then keep it in a lever arch file.

[00:17:57] And I'm not really a big fan because what happens is there's hundreds of them around everyone's houses and people put them in the poly pockets when they don't need to, and it's all, all a bit of a jumble. But anyway, let's not go into my dislike of poly pockets too much. But what I will say is. This is one occasion where a poly pocket is a fantastic thing to use.

[00:18:17] Ingrid, look, I've said it. I know, I know. Are you amazed? Are you 

[00:18:21] Ingrid: amazed? I know you were always so black and white about little plastic folders, but you know what? The exception proves the rule, doesn't it? There is. a good use for this. I mean, I am a poly pocket person because I'm a lever arch person. So it makes sense.

[00:18:36] But yes, I think with recipes organised 

[00:18:38] Lesley: person though, Ingrid, that's my point. You're an organised person. So an organised person can be a poly pocket person. Yeah. If you're disorganised that poly pockets create an additional barrier. See now I've gone into poly pockets because I feel compelled to.

[00:18:52] Explain my rationale. 

[00:18:55] Ingrid: So why do you think they do work well for recipes then? Is it because it's just that easy to keep them clean or keep them separated? Yeah. Easy to 

[00:19:02] Lesley: keep them clean, easy to keep them separated and recipes tend to be double sided as well. So they're really useful on both sides. I think that sometimes it's not a very uniform ripping out.

[00:19:12] And so it's unlikely that it's going to be exactly an A4 sheet, so it might be a little cut in. So a poly pocket is going to work perfectly. to keep your loose recipes. But as Ingrid says, you absolutely need to categorize well. Think about what categories and what logic is going to work for you. You know, it could be something as simple as desserts, main meals, starters.

[00:19:30] It could be healthy recipes. It could be chicken recipes. It could be fish recipes, vegetarian, whatever works for you, but you need some kind of categorization in there. Otherwise it's going to be all a big jumble and you're never going to find what you need. So that's super important as well, isn't it?

[00:19:43] Well, 

[00:19:44] Ingrid: I think about recipe books. We've talked about Pulling recipes from magazines and loose cards and things like that. But I'm going to throw something completely different in the mix. Why do we even need this? We've got Google. We can Google any recipe on the earth. I mean, even with random ingredients, you can even now put ingredients in an app and say, I have these ingredients.

[00:20:08] What do I make? I mean, it is incredible. Why do 

[00:20:15] Lesley: Because some people feel more comfortable with paper than they do with digital, Ingrid. You're, yeah, to be fair, you're a paper person, so I don't even know why you're being so strong about it. You love a piece of paper. If I could, there's some, some digital things, there's some paper that I'd like to wrestle from your hands that you won't give up lightly, to be fair.

[00:20:34] So you're being a little bit mean. But there are, but I, I hear you, I hear you. There's always a different way to do it. To be able to find a recipe and digital is so simple these days compared to paper based. And so you're right, but I think it's not about trying to change the way you do things, but I think it's about you as an individual saying, but do I do that?

[00:20:53] Do I rip the piece of paper out of the magazine for the recipe and then go to Google when I want something? We've got this kind of mishmash. And so really think about that because if you are naturally going to Google for the information, then you no longer need to rip things out of a magazine. If you're not comfortable with Googling that information or you're not quite, you know, it's not that you're not tech savvy, but it's not something that was somewhere that you feel comfortable.

[00:21:16] Of course, go back to the paper based system, but it's when you've kind of got this hybrid of both, but you need to look at that and think, have I actually moved into the next phase of things, but I'm still clinging onto the old one. 

[00:21:28] Ingrid: Mm hmm. Yeah, and I think so too. I think Lesley a lot has changed especially in the last decade or so I mean now we can even Order in boxes with the perfect amount of ingredients in it.

[00:21:40] And there's a recipe card how you need to create it. I mean, lots that was never possible in the past. We had to kind of do a lot of things from scratch. Now there's a lot more convenience. Um, takeaway has taken a massive. Uh, rise into what people can order. The whole landscape of recipes has changed and there's so many options now.

[00:22:01] It's almost too many options to choose from, isn't 

[00:22:05] Lesley: it? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And cooking and making food is always going to be something that really excites people. You know, there's so many cookery programs on, you know, there's loads and loads of things, isn't there, that can give you that inspiration to make what you want to make.

[00:22:21] So we've talked about some emotions and habits, we've talked about the types of things that you need to do to kind of let go a little bit of some of those emotions, but I think in summary, for me, it's all about quality over quantity. Would you agree, Ingrid? Oh, yeah, 

[00:22:35] Ingrid: yeah. And I think also, again, a bit of realism, you know, if you've got a cookery book where you need incredibly elaborate ingredients, and you're like, well, I just...

[00:22:46] Want to make something quick and easy and I don't want to have all this elaborate stuff and I don't want to go shopping for all this elaborate stuff. Be realistic in what your life looks like and how much time you want to spend on meal planning and shopping and cooking and preparing and all of that.

[00:23:02] I think it all fits together. Yes, it is a recipe or a recipe book or whatever shape or form it is, but I think it's so connected with the way we live our lives and how we cook and when we cook and how important or not important food is. What you do with your recipe, it's very, I find it very, very interesting.

[00:23:23] Lesley: Food is very important to me. Just saying. I don't like to cook it, but I definitely like to eat it. 

[00:23:31] Ingrid: I can, I can, I can concur. I will never be a small size. Lesley, food is too important.

[00:23:40] Lesley: So on that note. Recipe books, recipe leaflets, recipe aspirational and emotion and realism. I think we're 

[00:23:50] Ingrid: done with that, aren't we? Yeah, so let's talk about next week's podcast. It's all about what our favorite part of the decluttering process is. Oh, I can't wait to talk about this, Lesley. So listen in listeners next week.

[00:24:05] That's what we're talking about. And if you're on YouTube, you might see a Christmas hat coming by because we're like inching closer to Christmas. So let me see if I can convince Lesley to dig it out somewhere. 

[00:24:20] Lesley: Well, yeah, you've, you've thrown that on me, sprung that on me again haven't you, like, I've now got to go searching for a Christmas hat before next week.

[00:24:29] Thank you for that. You're welcome. 

[00:24:30] Ingrid: So thanks for listening and we'll see you soon listeners. Thank you so 

[00:24:34] much.
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