Episode 233 – 10 things to look for when hiring a professional organiser

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Now you know Lesley and I are all about encouraging you one step at a time to declutter and organise your home but sometimes it just seems an insurmountable task and there are options. If you've hit a roadblock, hiring a Professional Organiser might be some of the best money you've ever spent but you still need to make sure you are getting the right person for the job. Today we're talking about 10 things you need to look out for when hiring a professional organiser in your home.
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Transcript
Ingrid: Now, you know, Lesley and I are all about encouraging you one step at a time to declutter and organise your home. But sometimes it seems an insurmountable task and there are options if you've hit a roadblock, hiring a professional organiser might be some of the best money you've ever spent. But you still need to make sure you're getting the right person for the job. Today we're talking about the 10 things you need to look out for when hiring a professional organiser in your home. 

Voiceover: You are listening to the Declutter Hub Podcast, bringing you tried and tested no nonsense tips and advice from the lead in experts in decluttering and organising your home. Now here are your hosts, Ingrid Jansen and Lesley Spellman.

Hello and welcome listeners. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Lesley. If you're new to the Declutter Hub podcast, you are so welcome. What you'll find here is reality, empathy, and advice by the bucket load. And if you've been here for a while, thanks so much for listening. If you'd like the added bonus of watching us, as well as listening, you might want to find our podcast on our YouTube channel. Search for the Declutter Hub, and you can see us chat each and every week. Don't forget to subscribe to our channel so it pops into your notifications each Friday too.

Ingrid: Well, Lesley, I am excited about this episode because we can talk about being a professional organiser, which is like my favorite thing in the whole wide world and the funny thing is, I was telling recently, I think on a Facebook Live, that my friend Saskia was visiting from the Netherlands and she said, Ingrid, what do you do? And tell me a little bit about it and how is your membership going and your podcast. So I kind of went blah, blah, and she was like. Wow. Do you do anything else than decluttering and organising? I went, no, I just totally love it. 

Lesley: You know, Ingrid. When you say it's the favorite thing in your life, being a professional organiser, more important than being a mom or friend? 

Ingrid: No, of course not. No, of course not. Being a partner, a Mum, a good friend, a good sister, of course, but I mean, let's be, let's be real here, Lesley. We work a lot. So it's a good thing. We do love it. 

Lesley: It is, yeah and, and the interesting thing is as well, we've got two hats on, right? So, everybody who's listening to this really knows us from trying to encourage you guys to do this yourselves and so we are very much at the Declutter Hub about explaining how you can do this yourself without the help of a professional organiser. But I think it's fair to say, and we come across this often within our membership, within the podcast, within the Facebook group of people where we think, do you know what? It would be a really good time for them to just get that little bit of help because sometimes you just get a little bit stuck or it's a little bit too overwhelming, and you could move that project forward really well with the help of a professional organiser. Now, it might be that you don't want to do it on your own and you just want touse a professional organiser for everything, which is perfect if you've got funds to do it.

But many people don't have the funds to do that and that's why we have the Declutter Hub. But today we're talking about if you are going to invest in a professional organiser, it needs to be the right person at the right time, in the right place, with the right idea, the right fit for you. So there's loads of things that we are going to talk about today that are going to encourage you to think about what that looks like, because I think it's fair to say. People are like, what is a professional organiser? What do they do? Are they just going to come and chuck all my stuff away for me? So you know that ultimately the goal is to get rid of clutter, but what you don't understand is the process that's going to lead to that.

We are here to put your mind at rest and to say that it will be a positive process for most people if you've got the right person. And we're going to talk about the kinds of things that you need to look for to make sure that happens because we feel very passionate about it, right? We've done this for 13 years and you know, of course we believe that we and our teams, you know, cause we've both got teams now because we are working on the Declutter Hub a lot, we're not doing as much one-to-one work as we used to do.

And so even, you know, when we are hiring a professional organiser for our teams, We are looking for these things as well to make sure that we get the right fit that are going to represent us as the Clutter Fairy, which is my business, and Organise Your House, which is Ingrid's business. And by the way, if you are in the Northwest of England or Southeast London, come and find us because we've got these fantastic teams of people.

But that aside, what should somebody be looking for? Ingrid number one. And I think this is absolutely number one, and we are doing ten things right? We didn't say that. 

Ingrid: I know. We haven't even told everybody. It's a ten things podcast, which is also I think one of our favorite podcasts to do. So it's like a double whammy of all goodness, coming your way.

But agreed. For me, I mean, ugh. There are definitely things you need to look out for when you're hiring a professional organiser and, and the first one is, and it sounds a bit crazy, but do you like this person? Have you got a good feeling about this person when you see their website, when you've got them on the phone, do you trust them? Do you feel like, yeah, this sounds like somebody I could work with? 

Lesley: I think the trust that you're talking about Ingrid, it's not necessarily going to be there immediately, right? But I think it's really important that that professional organiser allows you time to build that trust. You're not going to trust somebody. You might think, ooh I quite like this person, they're quite bubbly, they sound quite a nice person, we seem quite aligned, you know? So you can think about that. But true trust has to be built and it has to be earned. And that's only going to take place in kind of communication, isn't it? So it has to be a, a conversation on the phone perhaps, or Whatsapp consultation, a zoom consultation, if that's the sensible thing to do, if you feel better about a face-to-face consultation, you really need to see somebody to get a feel for them, then that's should be something that you can ask for because you have to feel trust. Without trust, this is not going to work, right? Never. If you have not got trust in that person, it's not going to work. And, and it may, to be fair, that might be like, ooh, I'm kind of 70% there with the trust after a consultation, but I really need to see it in action. Yeah. But if you're still feeling mistrustful after one session with a professional organiser, then they're not the right person for you.

So trust is everything, and that needs to be, I think, a professional organiser, we're talking about what to look for when hiring a professional organiser, right. The professional organising needs to give you an opportunity. to see whether they feel that they can trust you. So it's all about that consultation and that chat and that communication.

So trust is number one, and the way we're going to get that trust or work that trust out is by some kind of consultation or chat about the process. 

Ingrid: Yeah, absolutely. I would like to move on to number two, Lesley. 

Lesley: Oh, you may, you may move on to number two, how very polite of you Ingrid. 

Ingrid: I want totalk a little bit about professionalism as well. Very important in my opinion, that somebody is punctual and on time and when they say they're going to do something, that they actually do it. And when they show up in, I don't know, like their car, their car is not a complete tip on the inside. You know, it's, it's all these things, you know, they, they, they kind of present themselves well, and they, you know, they, they kind of look like, okay, I'm, I'm ready for you. I'm ready to take on you as a client, and. They've not kind of basically run out of bed and jumped in their car and kind of went, oh, here I'm all, all flustered and, and all of that. It, it needs to come across like they're a calm person. 

Lesley: Yeah. You have to present yourself in a professional way. We are a professional organiser. The clues in the name and what we're there is to, to create standers for you in your home. And we need to start with that idea then, you know, of, of being professional and in general, people are going to be, you know, we're going to, but it's not just about doing the job, it's about running the business, right?

So there's two sides of things with a professional organiser that are really critical. One of them is, How you do the job. Yeah. So how you organise somebody's home, how you help 'them to declutter. The other side of it is how you run your business. And so how does the business side of things look? Because ultimately this is a transactional, this is a professional service and it comes from business place. So the business needs to be professional as well as you, but you are the representative or the professional organiser is the representative of their business and they need to demonstrate that.

It's so important that you, you know, you don't want tobe rolling your eyes because somebody is like, well that's not very professional when they turn up. So you need to be looking right from the start about whether your communication with them, you know, whether you are emailing, a phone call. All of those things are, does this strike you as professional? Super important because there's a lot of people who will play at it. There's a lot of people who are like, well, I can tidy a drawer, let me go and do that in somebody else's house. Not enough. That's not enough Ingrid, is it? You know, there has to be a lot of things that come into play when it, when it's all about being a professional organiser. So professionalism is absolutely key. And that is our number two. 

Number three, which is a big, big one for me is communication. And it's really important in so many areas, uh, in the world, isn't it? Do you know what I mean? Communication is absolutely key. And so it's all about those good response times to emails and phone calls. If you are a person that has struggled with clutter, you're going to be feeling very emotional.

It's not an easy phone call to make. It's not an easy leap to make to kind of go, okay, I feel like I'm ready to kind of open up my world to a complete stranger, which is effectively what that is. To go through all of my most intimate things in my home, or memories or whatever that might be, or something that I've struggled with that I feel a massive connection to. That is a huge leap and so for me as a professional organiser right from the start, what I felt that was necessary for me was to respect that leap that somebody has made and so within that, what I mean is if somebody, we get phone calls, texts, contact forms, emails in the middle of the night, and so somebody might be, you know, awake in the middle of the night thinking about this and just press that button to send that email and so what I want to do is respect that. I want to be able to respond to that in an appropriate timescale. So it's not always easy as a professional organiser, because we have holidays, we have responsibilities, we have families, we have boundaries. Okay. But in general, I would like to see from a professional organiser that they are getting in contact with you fairly quickly.

Okay. And fairly quickly to me would be same day and even if that same day communication is only, thank you so much. I've read your email. I'm going to get back to it when I'm back in the office on Monday, or I'm with a client at the moment and I'll respond as soon as I'm home and it, and it's practical for me to do so.

So it's like this, this combination of kind of knowing your own boundaries as a professional organiser, because we can't respond within five minutes to everything. We certainly can't respond while we're working with all the clients and so we have to wait until the end of that working day to respond. But I'm always a little bit cautious when I see something where it says I'll respond within 48 hours because for me, I imagine if I have gone through that process where, you know, I've sort of almost, you almost beared your soul a little bit, which a lot of people do in these initial emails or, or phone calls. For somebody to then kind of say, well, that's okay, but it's not important enough. I'll deal with it in 24 hours, which is kind of a standard response time. You know how disappointed we get when we see those kind of, no, we're not dealing with it immediately. You're going to have to wait, which is the kind of message effectively. So for me, I think it's all about that respect and that's wrapped up in the communication and how that communication is done. So I think even if you can't respond in full, I think there needs to be an interim communication. There's a kind of holding a holding because that's going to be like, oh, okay, she's read it, she knows about it. , and I know that on Monday it's going to move forward. I think that's so important, Ingrid, don't you? 

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, in the past people would mostly only email us, but now people reach out on WhatsApp, they reach out on Messenger sometimes. I mean, for me, ideally I get an email because then it's very visible because WhatsApp and Messenger, you know, it's, it's kind of a fleeting communication. So that's why I also put the contact form on my website so I get an email, but I always try to respond back as well. Even if, because some people, you know, you get an email in the evening and it's just a quick email back, thank you for email.

I will get back to you tomorrow morning or I will give you a call or I will, you know, so they know and they can, you can kind of see them go. Okay, okay, fine. I know what's happening now. And then of course, the follow through of that is really important as well. If you promise to do something, then it's important to get back to people.

Lesley: Yeah. Because you know it is very much about your journey and your leap of faith, which is effectively what it is, deserves the respect, doesn't it? Yeah. That's what it is. And people need to communicate and to me that's a such an important part. We've done that from day one with the business and we continue to do that now. Even though we've got quite a big team now, the responses go out straight away. Yeah. And if we can't respond, then we do say I'm with the client at the moment, I'll get back to you later. Or, You know, back in the office on Monday. Thanks so much for sharing your story, or whatever that might be. So I think it's looking out for things like that, looking out for the fact that somebody cares really important. 

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, Lesley, let's move on to number four. Active listening, being a good listener. I mean, and we've, that's funny because we both love talking. But I think we're actually also quite good listeners with our clients. So...

Lesley: Are you a good listener with me? 

Ingrid: I listen to you all the time. What are you talking about?

Lesley: Active listening. Yeah. I don't know whether I'm quite so good with the active listening when it comes to you. But anyway, I'm good with the clients, but anyway, go on. Go on. Ingrid, this is yours. You talk about active listening cause I've spent way too much time talking about communication.

Ingrid: Well, I think it's important that you feel heard as a client. You know, that a professional organiser doesn't only want totell you about how it's going to work and what they're going to do and duh duh duh duh duh, and rattle the whole thing, but you also need to feel that you've been heard, you know, about why you've reached out, and why you're ready now and what, what are your goals and where do you want to go to and why is now the crucial time that you actually finally reached out? Because we know that sometimes we've been in our client's fridges, our phone number for like five years like when I'm going to come around to this, I'm going to ring this professional organiser because I read an article of her somewhere, or I saw her name pop up.

So when they're ready, you know, to make that phone call, it's really important that we listen and not only just listen and take the information, but actually actively listen and pick up, or we can pick up so much when you talk to a client and figure it out and kind of almost you're going to put your finger on the pulse and going to go, ah, that's why it's important. Like, I was talking to a, a new client, um, last week and, you know, she's, she's struggling with health and, uh, has had a really, really tough time. And I was listening to it and going, you know, and I'm sympathising with her obviously, because she's had a lot to deal with. But then finally in the last sentence, she said, my grandson's coming to visit later this year, and I really, really want, they're flying over from the other side of the world and I thought, aha. Now we, I could have easily missed it, but she kind of slotted it in, in after, you know, talking about it. And I thought, ah, now I know what the end goal is and why, what timeframe we got to work with. And so important to listen well to what the client's saying.

Lesley: And I think, again, that that, you know, we've carried that on with the Declutter Hub because the reason why you need to listen is because decluttering in itself in terms of deciding, you know, putting things into a bin bags, taking them to charity, moving things around, tiding things up on a shelf, that's the easy bit, right?

It, it's the getting to that point that's hard. It's the emotional side of things, which is obviously the everything that we teach here at the Declutter Hub, and it's the same working the with a professional organiser. For most people, not for everybody. For some people it's a practical process and they want logistical, practical help to get them over the line, and they don't have any emotional ties apart from the fact that things have got a little bit out of hand.

There's been a life transition or whatever. So some people, it's not that deep, but for many people that hire a professional organiser, it is. And that's why we need to listen because what we're trying to glean is what kind of emotional response will this client have to their stuff and what do I need to be looking out for?

It's irrelevant. It's not irrelevant, but it's kind of, but the process is kind of more irrelevant, because we know ultimately that stuff's going to get decluttered and it's going to leave the house and it's going to be quite tidy at the end of it. So the process is much less important than the how do we get there in an emotional way and we as professional organisers are only ever going to glean that if we listen, you know? 

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, fully agree with you, Lesley. Well, I've got a suggestion. Let's go for a break. 

Lesley: Have you had enough of me, have you had enough of my listen talking? Not listening? 

Ingrid: No, actually no. But I want to go to a break because after the break I actually want to talk about the process. So let's go for a break and we'll see you after



Ingrid: Hi everyone. Welcome back. We are doing a 10 things to look for when you want to hire a professional organiser, and we've only done four. We need to get a move on, Lesley. So let's move on to number five, and that is all about you understanding how the process is going to work. Has your professional organiser explained this to you? Do you know what's happening? 

Lesley: Yeah, because it's really important for you to feel control. So again, in the Declutter Hub, what we're try and teach is for people to be in, in control of the process or the project or whatever it is. And so it's really important for you to feel that you know what's going where and that you have a, a defined kind of order in which things are going to be done and things like that. And your professional organiser also needs to have perfected their process. We have our own process here at the Declutter Hub, which we are perfected, that we've used. I've used as the Clutter Fairy, Ingrid uses as Organise Your House and then we now use it in the Declutter Hub, and that's what we teach. But I think it's really important for you to understand what that process might be and the kinds of things that you need to look out for. How is it going to work? Where are we going to get started? Now, your idea about where to get started may be different to the professional organiser's. That's why we are professionals. So we may try and say, have you thought about doing things in this way? because that might get you a more efficient, more effective process. Because what we typically do in a home is we want to work on the communal areas first, right? Because that's what other people see. And so we might want towork in the living room and actually what we know as professional organisers is that living rooms are quite tricky because we need to sort of disperse the, the stuff from a living room to other areas in the home. And so sometimes we need to work on those other areas in the home first. And so you need to be listening to the fact whether the professional organiser having had a look around your home and they should look around your home for sure. If you're happy to show them in all of the rooms, to be able to get a full picture of what that's going to look like.

They should be suggesting things to you in terms of, I know this is where you want to start, but this is another alternative. Not forcing that opinion on you, but suggesting alternatives if they feel that that's not going to be the right way to do it. So you definitely need to ascertain between yourselves where you're going to start. Really important. And I think the most important thing about that process, Ingrid, is working out what pace it's going to be at, what, what have you got to say about pace, Ingrid? 

Ingrid: Yeah, I think it's really important that you feel happy with the speed because a professional organiser can work really fast, but in the end it's your stuff.

It's, these are your items you need to make decisions. Now, if you're of course going to be umming and ahhing about each item for 10 minutes, the organiser might say, Okay, let's talk this through, because if we're going to think about everything for 10 minutes, it's going to take a long time to get through this room or through this area. But on the other hand, if the client goes so quickly that it almost feels out of control, a professional organiser should also be able to say, I think we need to just slow down it a little bit because you're going so fast and I want you to make the right decisions. It's finding that balance, finding that right speed for you, where you feel happy about everything that's being decluttered, and what's being kept in your home.

And I think it's also important to know, do you know when you're going to get started? What time? When is there going to be a break? Are you going to have time to eat something or have a lunch. Does your professional organiser know that you need to take medication at a certain time so they could, you know, it's, it's all about, do you, that you have a good grip about what you can expect when a professional organiser shows up at your house? And that's something that needs to be explained in advance, in my opinion. So you can also, because a lot of people are nervous, especially the first time when they don't know, it's, it gets easier when a professional organiser comes for the second or third or fourth time because you kind of, kind of, I know what's going what, what's going to happen this morning or this afternoon, but especially that first time, it's really important that a professional organiser gives a runthrough of how the day is going to go.

Lesley: Yes, absolutely. Really important. And I think it also, even before you get to that point, so there's some of the things that we've been talking about, active listening, we've been talking about communication. So these are all at the point that you then, sort of have made a phone call and asked for a professional organiser to come to your home, but what I wanted to talk about is before you even get to that point, so really, really important for you. The window on the world for a professional organiser, as Ingrid said, you know, it might be that you've read about something in a, in a magazine or something like that, but for most people, they're going to come to you from a website. So a social media post will direct them to a website where they'll find out more information and then they'll make the call from the website or send a, an email or on a contact form or something like that. So it needs to be, that website needs to be clear. You need to get a feel for that person from the website. They need to explain who they are as a person, what makes them tick, what their mission statement is, why they're the best person to help with you.

It's got to be, it needs to be clear. What kind of services do they offer? You know, so there's different things why people hire a professional organiser. It might be that you're moving house. It might be that you've got a playroom to do. It might be that you need some help with paperwork and household management.

There's loads and loads of different services that a professional organiser can offer you, but the website that they present themselves to in the world needs to be really clear. Yeah, you shouldn't come away from that website thinking. Not really quite sure what they do or whether this is the right person for me.

So clarity on the website, authenticity on the website, and personality on the website needs to be what you're looking for. Make sure there's a picture on there, you know? Mm-hmm. There should be a picture. It should be professional. Going back, make sure there's a contact form on there. Is it really clear?

You know when they're available, how you can get in touch with 'em, all of those kind of things. So all the things that we've spoken about, professionalism, communication, they need to be there on that website. Then the website needs to be the right cause. It's their window on the world and it's up to a professional organiser to make sure that that website is a great representation of them, isn't it?

Ingrid: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think critical and for me, especially a photo can do so much, you know, that you can kind of, I don't know, you, you've, I might think, oh, that she looks like a nice person. I'm, I feel like I can reach out to her and talk to her about why I need help, because so many people are embarrassed about reaching out for help. So it's a big leap to make. So if you feel like, oh, she's, she looks like a nice person, it makes it easier than to, to, to reach out to them via a context form or by phone or email. 

Lesley: Yeah, I think, I mean one of our, um, one of my, um, was saying the other day that she went to a clients and the client had all of the stuff printed out. So they had all of our team bios on there and the photographs and had read all about them and would was like, oh, I'm glad that you came cause you are the one that I wanted, kind of thing. And so, even within a team of people. And we are all, we're all very, a very different team with different skillsets. People can see what kind of person they want based on what that person presents about themselves. So it's, so, it was, it was interesting. And it's not the first time, you know, I've, I've gone to a client before and they've had a picture like I'm, oh my word, I did not expect a full size A4 picture of myself, you know what I mean? Yeah, all these things are really important, aren't they?

Ingrid: And I think, and I think as well within our teams, we know what everybody's strengths are. So when a client reaches out to us and we've got some of our team members overlap a little bit in area that they can cover, you can go, oh, that's going to be a great job for this person. Or, oh, they love doing toy room, so I'm going to give this job to that person because I know they love that task. I mean, we could all do all of the doing, but there are just other things that we kind of know that we like doing. I also want to talk a little bit about pricing, Lesley, because I think that should be clear as well, when you reach out to somebody. Is there an hourly rate? Do they offer packages? Um, does the hourly rate start as soon as somebody knocks on your front door, or do they come in and say hello? First is the being taken off the hourly rate, or is the break being expected to be included in the hourly rate? How does it work with travel time? Do they charge for travel? And how many miles are included? If somebody comes in by train, is the train ticket going to be put through on the invoice? You need to have clarity about that. 

Lesley: Yeah, yeah, exactly. because you know, the hours can rack up currently in terms of price and the, and the client needs to be really clear what that is. And so it's important to work out what that price is in advance. And so some professional organisers will put their price in very clearly and transparently on their website. Others will choose not to do that and we'll talk about that, join a phone call. But either way, before you have, know, gone into a contract with that person, then it needs to be clear what that looks like. I prefer transparent pricing cause I, I prefer people to know what it is that they're looking at. The problem is with pricing, is that even though you might understand an hourly rate as a person, what you don't understand typically is how long it's going to take. And so you can't get a full picture of how long. And even as professional organisers, we can't say that with concrete. Can we, we can't, we can't. Um, because we don't know, cause we don't know how fast you can work and how fast you can make decisions and what type of clutter might be buried underneath and what, what might make you stall. And so it's difficult for us to make those calls as well, isn't it Ingrid?

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um, besides pricing, Lesley, I think we need to have clarity about terms and conditions. Are there terms and conditions? What are they, do they mention anything about cancellations and how does that work and what can people expect from you? So I think clarity needs to be about that, but also, um, how far will they travel out? Are you in their area? Do they clean because there's still a bit of a, um, sometimes people muddle us up that we are cleaners and not professional organisers, but I, as a professional organiser, if I empty cupboard, I will give it a wipe so I do clean. So I explain that when I've got a client on the phone or on a consultation, what they can expect of me, because I think it's really important that our clients know this.

Lesley: Absolutely. Absolutely. So all those things are important to, to clarify from the outset. I think one other thing as well that, um, you'll see a lot, and this is a thing that kind of scares people to death as well, um, is before and after pictures. Now, as a professional organiser, I have a bit of a love hate relationship really with be before and after pictures. They definitely have their place. I think there can be a really useful tool to you as an individual to, to spur you on for you to see progress because we can become a little bit clutter blind and it's good to be able to. How far we've come, so I think, I think before and after pictures are a fantastic idea. For you as an individual in any situation, so you can see how far you've come.

Now, of course, the way that we, uh, do our marketing and things like that as professional organisers, the way we use social media is we try and show people transformation. It's not just to get work in, but to to kind of go look, this is the cool thing that you can do if you declutter your house. It's not always marketing, but sometimes it is.

And so if your before and after pictures are taken by a professional organiser, it needs to be clear from the outset what they're going to do with those pictures. Do they have your permission to use them in social media or on websites or stuff like that? What are they going to do with them? And if you don't feel comfortable with that, you need to be given the opportunity to say that. So in our business, we, we put that right from the outset, we asked the question. How do you feel about that? That might change, right? We know that that might change throughout the process. Yeah. But if people are not comfortable with that, then, then it goes into the, um, contract that we signed at the beginning. Yes, I am. Some people are, some people know that they're open and some people don't know where they would go with that. And so most people will say no. Probably 50 50. I'll say 50% of the people say yes, they're happy with that. 50% of people are not and we will gauge that as well throughout it, but it's, it's defined right from the outside, and I think that's important as well, isn't it? You know, you don't want tobe nervous, you don't know anything that's going to upset you along the way. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? From what you're trying to do? That's the important thing. 

Ingrid: Yeah. I think it really differs per client. I mean, some people are like so happy with the transformation. They're like, you go ahead and share the pictures. I'm so delighted. And you know, you, you, they just don't mind at all. And other people are like, I'm just still feel so embarrassed about the house. I'm just not ready to to share that. But you what you see exactly what you're saying, Lesley, sometimes when the client is a little bit further along the way, they some suddenly start to get that.

The pride back in, in their house and how they feel and, and they're like, actually I am ready to do a little bit of sharing now. So, but it's really important that it's clear before you work with a professional organiser and that it's open for discussion and you are allowed to change your mind. because maybe you said in the beginning, yeah, yeah, I can share and then later you think, oh, I don't really want to do this. There should be a, you know, you need to talk about that and go, I, I, I actually want to change my mind. 

Lesley: Definitely a hundred percent. Hundred percent.

Ingrid: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Lesley: Now all of these things that we've been talking about, Ingrid are things that you and I have trained people on in the past, right? So when we were at the Association of Professional Declutters and Organisers, you were the president, I was the head of website and mentoring. So basically we ran professional organising courses for professional organisers, and these are all of the kinds of things that we used to impress upon them and said, these are really important, whether it's a website, whether it's pricing, communication, active, listening, all of those kinds of things. And we really stand behind it. You can feel by the way that we are speaking today, that we feel quite passionately that people who are representing what we try to do are the best that they can be. And so, we ran training courses for, I don't know, we wrote the Starting a Professional Organising Business. We wrote a Developing a Professional Organising Business, and we did that for five years and that's what brought us to here, to working together at the Declutter Hub, and we kind of missed it, didn't we, Ingrid? We missed working with other professional organisers, so we thought it was time to do that again. 

Ingrid: Yeah. I think it was such a big part of, of growing ourselves as professional organisers, but also being volunteers for the Association was the training program and hanging out with other people who wanted to be professional organisers or who were professional organisers and wanted to, kind of, heighten their skillsets and we loved it so much. But of course then we got sidetracked with the Declutter Hub, but we realised that we really missed working with professional organisers. 

Lesley: In the same way that you said that being a professional organiser is the favorite thing in the entire world, now you've just said. We got sidetracked by running the Declutter Hub. Do you consider that to be sidetracked? I feel like a very conscious decision to start a new business, but maybe you'd think you just got sidetracked. I don't know. 

Ingrid: Oh, we got sidetracked for four years, Lesley. But let's not beat around the bush. We loved training other professional organisers, and of course we wanted to give full focus to setting up Declutter Hub, growing the Facebook group, doing the podcast. But all the time in our heads we're a little bit like if we, if we ever get a little bit of time back, we want to work again with professional organisers because we want to keep growing and building the industry. We want professional organisers to be professional and do the best job that they can because we know the difference it can make in people's lives. And this time we were, this year, we were like, you know what?

This should be a priority now. We should. We should now focus some of our time on doing that again because we really enjoy it so much and we, I think it's good for everybody when professional organisers are doing an amazing job and change people's lives. 

Lesley: Absolutely. So we did do that. We did do that. We got sidetracked again, Ingrid, by writing something called the Prosper Program, didn't we? Yes, yes. So yeah, we spent a little bit of time, and so we still, of course, are 100% fully committed to our members as well, but we had a little bit of extra time as we're going through the Hub and finding a little bit more, more time and outsourcing things to be able to focus back on professional organisers. 

And the way we've done that is we've bought two things together, haven't we? And we've, we've bought the practical side of things and we know about the practical side of things, and we've taught the practical side of things for many years with our courses in the Declutter, Hub and our quick wins. And so all of the knowledge, how, how will a client feel? In various rooms in their house, how, what sorts of things do you need to be looking, looking at from an emotional perspective?

And of course the process of decluttering and organising a home as well. So we have all that information already available within the membership. And professional organisers. Some professional organisers, particularly the ones that are the early stages of their journey, need that either as a learning tool or as a reference tool. We've got loads of professional organisers already in our membership, haven't we? Ingrid, and they love the, the possibility of going and checking and looking at things and going, how would I do that? I've never really done paperwork before. How would I do that? And they can learn those kind of things. As we've said before, the important skills is the empathy, is the trust, is the active listening, the all this stuff can be learned, right?

And so we have that side of it. And then we're very passionate. And you know, it's a bit of a cliche to say passionate, but we are passionate about the business side of it as well. Making sure that professional organisers can then present themselves in the right way through the things that they're do in their business, through emails, through website, through pricing, through before and after pictures, all of the things that we have spoken about.

So our Prosper program that we put together is part, part of it is the practical and part of it is the business side of it, Ingrid. 

Ingrid: Yes. Yes. And we're, we're, we're so excited. And it, it's launching today. So if you're listening to this podcast, it's launching on Friday, the 17th of March, 2023. And, um, we are so excited to push the live go live button for our website so you guys can check it out.

So if you're considering. becoming a professional organiser. Or if you're an organiser who's just starting out and thinking, yes, I've got some gaps in my knowledge, I need to know more. Or if you've been in a professional organising business for a little while, but you're thinking, actually, I could do with some more business skills, and that's where some of my gaps are, this is the perfect program for you, so check it out on declutterhub.com/prosper. 

Lesley: Yes, absolutely. It's very exciting. Prosper. I love to prosper. Ingrid, we love to prosper. Yes. So it's important for us to get back to number 10. Also very important. So what we've just spoken about is we've spoken about the Association of Professional Declutterers and Organisers which both of us feel very passionate about because we've spent many years volunteering and, and, and working with professional organisers in that business.

So we, we truly believe that when you're looking for a professional organiser look to see whether they are part of a professional body. because what that demonstrates for the most part is that professional development will be in there. They will have gone on training courses to learn how to do things better and they will be spending time with other professional organisers. It's really about the professional development side of things, isn't it? Ingrid. And what that shows is that somebody's committed to the industry. Within APDO, we have code of ethics. You know, things like that are so, so important.

So the Association of Professional Declutterers and Organisers is the UK based trade association for people who do the things that we do. And there are others all around the world as well, aren't there? Ingrid? 

Ingrid: Yes, you've got NAPO in the US there is ANPOP in Brazil. There's POC in Canada, there's APOI in Italy. There's an association in France, in the Netherlands, in Japan, South Korea, Australia. It's a global thing. So wherever you are in the world, if you're thinking, actually, I do need a bit of extra help, I do want to hire a professional organiser, see if they are part of that association. For me, it just gives them lots of extra kudos, Lesley.

Lesley: Yeah. And of course Ingrid. This is a very special week for APDO because next week is spring clearing week and it's, it is an annual week where we focus on all things decluttering and organising. And the theme for this year is all about how decluttering can help your mental health. So there should be loads of things going on around Spring Clearing Week. So do check out them on Instagram, @APDOUK, they've got our Facebook group. You can find them in all of the normal places and there should be some cool stuff coming your way. So do check out APDO. 

Ingrid: Yes. And of course do check out our Prosper Program. How exciting Lesley. 

Lesley: Oh, we're excited. We're very excited. It's been on our list for a while, hasn't it? And finally we were like, we need to do this. We need to do this. So it's exciting. Yeah, I think it's interesting Ingrid. Cause we, we, we do, we have got very excited during this podcast. And I think the thing is, we know that sometimes using a professional organiser in your home is really, really useful and can really get you over the line. And we would love, honestly, wouldn't we? We've talked all the time about doing world tours and stuff, and going round and visiting people's houses in Australia and all this kind of stuff. People are like, can you come to me? We're like, we'd really like to, cause that would be so much fun, wouldn't it?

Taking the Clutter Fairy, Organise Your House and the Declutter Hub on the road. But, it's not really going to happen, is it? And so what we wanna, you know, it's really important to us that when you choose a professional organiser, you choose the right person. And that's what this podcast was all about. Yeah. So whether you are a professional organiser yourself, hopefully you've gleaned some useful information from us old timers as it was. If you are looking to hire a professional organiser, hopefully we'll give you some hints and tips on what kinds of things to look for are really, really important. You need to feel good about the person that you're working with. Rule number one. And yeah, 10 things, Ingrid. Another 10 things podcast done. 

Ingrid: I know. It's so nice. So let us know and we would love to know in the comments from you, let us know. If you go to declutterhub.com/23 3, you can leave as a comment. So maybe you're like, maybe you're a professional organiser and you're like, Tell me more about the Prosper Program. Or maybe you are somebody who's thinking, actually, I do need to hire a professional organiser and your podcast has really helped me think through what is important when looking for one. So we would love to hear from you and then next week we're kind of continuing with our 10 things because it's the 10 things that a professional organiser will never buy. So we can't wait to see you there. Have a great week, and we'll see you soon.

Voiceover: Thanks so much for listening to the Declutter Hub Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to us in your podcast player so you don't miss an episode, and we'll see you next week.
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